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Overnighter… 1 December 2007

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

   stock market baghdad
        Baghdad stock market

I landed on this photo at a very interesting blog (tag “immaterial-labor”)… and this is a snip from the post, The Market of Spectacles, that includes the above pic:

When I was around 15, I worked at a currency exchange office in the world famous Grand Bazaar (satellite view), Istanbul. At the time, Grand Bazaar was the center for determining the gold and foreign currency exchange rate in Turkey. There were no electronics in the heart of the bazaar back then. Just bidders cheering the price of dollars at their hand. My job was to get in this crowd and learn the recent exchange rate between US Dollar and Turkish Liras, and report it back to the office. So that the office can update the exchange rate and sell or buy dollars from this new rate. There was no agency to track and announce the recent price. People were just learning the recent price from each other, face to face, right there in the crowd. Dynamics of this humane structure was one of the inspirations for me to implement a peer-to-peer stock exchange system.



1. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

Now we know why Bloomberg is worth millions: his news service basically NYSE. In fact, all information on the market must be approved by him. It is quite the arrangement.

And now he may run for President with Obama.

Someone wake me from this nightmare.

2. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

And now he may run for President with Obama

An Obama/Bloomberg third party run would rock.

Lots of Democratic wailing and whing and knashing of teeth and Rudy as president.

I’ll laugh all the way to Gitmo.

3. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

I think he will run with Obama if Obama wins the nomination. Or at least this is the speculation, and notice that Obama had to find his Republican from New York in order to undermine Clinton.

An Obama-Bloomberg Democratic ticket is a nightmare. Or perhaps it will catapult McKinney into the White House. Maybe it will finally radicalize all the disaffected Democrats who no longer engage in the process.

I am sure you noticed the link in the last thread that leads one to Obama’s castigation of the Democratic Party for not allowing Republicans to engage in the primary process. This casts his meeting with Bloomberg in an entirely new relief.

4. marisacat - 1 December 2007

I still say Obama is trying ot be the Senator Brooks of my childhood, a Black Republican senator.

5. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

That is exactly right, marisacat. It does not surprise me one bit that he utilizes Republican tropes of crisis and mandate when rationalizing his conservative proposals on health care and on social security.

Imagine if he had to debate McKinney. That is a spectacle I desire to behold.

6. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

This casts his meeting with Bloomberg in an entirely new relief.

Since white liberals in NYC voted for Giuliani and Bloomberg to protect them from the big scary negros and since everybody as Kos supported Bloomberg in 2005 (somehow the rule against plugging Republicans was broken those vew months), it will be the sweetest of poetic justice to see him cost Hillary the White House.

Ha Ha

7. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

Bloomberg Democrats, Reagan Democrats, Guiliani Democrats, Pat Murphy Democrats, Webb Democrats, Moulitsas Democrats: same concept, same people, just a different lubricant.

8. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

The one time I would have liked to have seen Kos go partisan Democrat and punish Bloomberg for the RNC arrests, he went soft and allowed his site to support the Republican.

9. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

Since Moon has about 6 Muslim bashing threads on PFF and seems to be demanding that we leftists go anti-religion, and since he lives in NYC, maybe he’d be interested in attending the Revolutionary Communist Party’s book party for Chairman Bob’s new religion bashing tome.


Note. The cover is unintentionally hilarious for any old Slashdot troll because it will remind him/her of Goatse.

10. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

HCfM – Kos had to appear strong on defense. And besides, he does not believe in collective action unless it bankrolls his enterprise. This may explain why he ad Jerome Armstrong despise Obama: neither were invited to serve as mercenary bloggers for Obama’s campaign.

11. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

Kos had to appear strong on defense.

Bu But I thought the rulz said that it was a “partisan site dedicated to electing Democrats”?

12. marisacat - 1 December 2007

utilizes Republican tropes of crisis and mandate when rationalizing his conservative proposals on health care and on social security.

welll that is most of them, on any one, two or three of the most critical subjects. Not just Obama, who is Adware, but they all are…

Geesh poor disgusting Biden was driven to [play act] that Iran strike would move him to impeach the duo… occasionally Dodd gets off an old style liberal comment or two… Richardson gets off a line or two about withdrawal…

Kuc has small chem trails he leaves.

Really for me Gravel was the closest to anything real… and then it was just a show run.

I think both sides are pathetic, both parties are just pwoer money games… and the faces running are just faces running. A blur.. fronting for transnationals, or religious hegemone wanna bes.

The whole thing is disgusting, but still turning on the rotisserie spit.

13. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

Kos desires to tap into Bloomberg’s wealth. Besides, Kos and the mindless drones who contribute to his bank account believe the Party’s tent should be so big the tarpulines will effectively shroud anything that resembles a glimmer of dissent.

14. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

Is it only me or did anybody else see Romney’s defense of torture *during the Republican debate* as a step up in the general depravity?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen this before. The Dems said that the nuke option was “on the table” but that was a little more vague. Ron Paul has some racist supporters but on national TV he tends to lead with his anti-war side. Tancredo bashes immigrants, but he doesn’t quite come out and say “kep the beaners out”. He still cloaks it in the legal/illegal frame.

But Romney came right out and said “my good pal Copher Black says waterboarding’s AOK with him and besides we can’t let the terrorists know exactly how we’re torturing people because it might give them ideas”.

I really thought my capacity for being shocked was gone. But that suprised even me.

15. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

Romney never fails to surprise. This spring he claimed the US did not torture. And he mindlessly subscribes to Grover Norquist’s attempt to give the multinationals free reign. A trust fund baby whose plastic surgery also included the suspension of his brain in a Republican vat, Mitt Romney is nothing more than wax statue that issues conservative slogans on demand.

16. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

The whole thing might have been set up as a softball for McCain to hit out of the park (I forget who asked Romney the question) but once that cat was out of the bag, it was out.

We’re like Nazi Germany now. We have the frontrunner of one of the major American political parties (the oldest liberal and anti-racist party in the world really) discussing the specifics of torture on national TV during a major party debate where you only get limited time to speak.

I don’t even think Pinochet or the Soviet Communists or the Argentine junta debated how you were going to torture people in public. I don’t even think Strom Thurmond did it in 1948 (discussed the specifics of lynching or castrating “nigras”).

It was a genuinely sick moment that went beyond the usual depravity (for me anyway). And it doesn’t give the Democrats an advantage either. They should have been all over the media the next day denouncing it.

But hey, you can’t say “General Betrayus”.

17. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

But all vow to uphold the Bible above the Constitution. I am sure you also noticed Huckabee’s Baptist justification of the death penalty. Yes, many cats were let out of the bag, and all of them are toms.

18. Hair Club for Men - 1 December 2007

But all vow to uphold the Bible above the Constitution. I am sure you also noticed Huckabee’s Baptist justification of the death penalty.

Didn’t bother me as much as Romney’s waterboarding statements. I expect a certain amount of religious sanctimony in American politics.

But talking about the specifics of how you torture people. Uh, I guess it’s torture if you stick the red hot poker 4 inches up his ass and not three.

When Marx said everything happens twice, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, I don’t think he counted on Mitt Romney.

Re Clinton Monica and the Cigar and Waterboarding Mitt

History repeats itself. In this case, the first time as low, vulgar comedy. The second time as horror.

From “Porky’s” to “Saw” in a decade.

19. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

Yes, the Marxist trope of repetition as farce aptly describes many events of this decade.

20. marisacat - 1 December 2007

LOL from the NYT (and it won’t be much different Jan 3 on The Big Day):

Greetings From Icy Iowa

Des Moines is so icy today, the airport is temporarily shut down and a three-block walk from the downtown Marriott to a Starbucks -– for coffee and a New York Times -– took 20 harrowing minutes.

I take it the Marriott did not have either?

21. marisacat - 1 December 2007

Seems Bloomberg also supped (or something) with Hagel…. who is not being shy, iirc he seemed to indicate he’d run with Hillary.

Too funny.

22. antihegemonic - 1 December 2007

They are shuffling a deck with all the same marked cards. Spades remain spades, the clubs remain intact, everyone lacks hearts, and diamonds will never appear in the political rough. Perhaps I will visit the table where they are shooting craps.

23. Balloon Animal - 2 December 2007

What is the protocol for meeting Hiz Honner? Does one bow knee and kiss his ring, or just prick a finger and sign the loyalty oath in blood?

I’m drafting a proposal that will eliminate the charade of democracy we have now, and permit the Bloombergian class to just meet and select the President of the United States directly, without any of these need to pretend that our votes count.

It’ll be the College of Cardinals, American style. Minimum net worth for admission to the College of Vultures is $100 million. Gray smoke from the chimney of the chalet where they meet in Aspen means they haven’t yet selected Il Presidente; black smoke means “we have a sockpuppet”.

The beauty part? It’ll all be paid for by taxpayers, right down to the full-sized ice sculptures that grace the College of Vultures convocation. Hey, the rich don’t stay rich by writing checks….

24. wu ming - 2 December 2007

another great picture.

i remember the first time i greally grasped that whole supply/demand thing, one time in ukraine in the 90s. the post-soviet currency was in a downfall, tens of thousands to the dollar IIRC, and you changed currency in some little kiosk on the edge of our local street market. exchange rates and prices in the market were posted, by and large, and noone really bothered to rip you off.

over the course of the summer, i watched as the exchange rate in our neighborhood respond to all the americans changing dollars into cupones by strengthening the local currency viz the dollar, while at the same time pushing the prices up in the nearby market because we were all willing to pay higher prices because everything was cheap in our economic context. two invisible hands moving in contradiction, at parallel levels.

25. marisacat - 2 December 2007

Lenin’s Tomb “left turn” was at the World Against War Dec 1 in London:

the conference news was received that Turkish troops massed on the border with Iraq had carried out incursions into that country. Speakers pointed out that 100,000 troops were thought to be involved. This is a huge mobilisation when compared to the 170,000 troops that were involved in the original US-led attack on the country in 2003. The conference backed a hastily prepared resolution condemning Turkish intervention in Iraq.

The conference also backed a resolution declaring its ‘opposition to the “endless war” prosecuted by the US government’ and demanded ‘an immediate end to the illegal military occupation of Iraq…a halt to the preparations for an attack against Iran…a withdrawal of foreign troops from Afghanistan…justice for the Palestinian people, and an end to Israeli aggression throughout the Middle East.’

26. marisacat - 2 December 2007

somehow I missed this yesterday…..REALLY big strikes in Italy…..

27. melvin - 2 December 2007

Wow! That takes me back a few years. Wandering wherever the weather led me I found myself in bella Italia. And almost immediately stranded, I learned my first word of Italian from a comely lad: sciopero!

And his description of Italian politics: Tutte in ordine, niente fa.

28. marisacat - 2 December 2007

LOL melvin…. same thing here… I was trying to call thru to the airline in Rome from Venice and the operator kept saying sciopero… they were going on strike…

I remember times when a shopping street would declare a strike… and so on. Blockade themselves at either end…

what a hoot!

29. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

The best part of the revival is when the snake-oil salesman gets up on the back of his wagon and starts spinning his con:

In Spe Salvi (Saved by Hope), Pope Benedict said that atheists argued that “a world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God”. Since there was “no God to create justice”, atheists said, Man himself was called on to establish it on Earth. This protest against God was understandable, the Pope said, but “the claim that humanity can and must do what no God actually does or is able to do is both presumptuous and intrinsically false”.

He added: “It is no accident that this idea has led to the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice: rather it is grounded in the intrinsic falsity of the claim. A world which has to create its own justice is a world without hope.”

He said that faith in progress through science was illusory. Scientific advances offered mankind “new possibilities for good”, he said, but science also “opens up appalling possibilities for evil, possibilities that did not formerly exist. We have all witnessed the way in which progress, in the wrong hands, can become and has indeed become a terrifying progress in evil”.

Unlike Religion, Ratzi? There are many corn-holed altar boys and dead women unable to escape the pregnancy you would condemn them to who might take exception to that, the native nations who were subjected to the destruction of their world in the name of religion and greed.

Then we get to see that even someone purportedly chosen as the Cosmic Muffin’s emmissary thinks the best way to make an argument is to erect a straw unbeliever and then knock it down.

The Pope said that many people reject faith today, “simply because they do not find the prospect of eternal life attractive. What they desire is not eternal life at all, but this present life, for which faith in eternal life seems something of an impediment. To continue living forever – endlessly – appears more like a curse than a gift”. But he concluded that Eternity was “not an unending succession of days in the calendar” but an encounter with Christ after death which is “like plunging into an ocean of infinite love, a moment in which time, the before and after, no longer exists”.


Perhaps we TREASURE the world we have, the beauty inherit in the temporality of existence. Redemption is in a lover’s arms, a baby’s smile, a songbirds song. Perhaps we have no need for the embrace of an imaginary friend because we embrace the sweetness of what we have here and now, as well as the bitterness of the bad things that border and highten the good?

I’m with the Japanese. There is more holiness in the fragile cherry blossom blown free from its branch than in all of your gilt objects and silken vestments and empty promises of eternal love with a mythical dead jewish revolutionary.

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

9/11: Before Everything Changed

Everyone remembers the screaming headlines the day after September 11, 2001. But a look at a front page from the morning of the terror attacks really reveals what we have lost.

31. JJB - 2 December 2007

The WaPo has sunk to a new low with this:

The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez

By Donald Rumsfeld
Sunday, December 2, 2007; Page B03

Today the people of Venezuela face a constitutional referendum, which, if passed, could obliterate the few remaining vestiges of Venezuelan democracy. The world is saying little and doing less as President Hugo Chávez dismantles Venezuela’s constitution, silences its independent media and confiscates private property. Chávez’s ambitions do not stop at Venezuela’s borders, either. He has repeatedly threatened its neighbors. In late November, Colombia’s president, Alvaro Uribe, declared that Chávez’s efforts to mediate hostage talks with Marxist terrorists from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, were not welcome. Chávez responded by freezing trade with Colombia.

I really didn’t want to read that piece for the same reason I wouldn’t wade into a pool of raw sewage. I suppose the only things you can say about it are: that there probably isn’t a single truthful statement in that opening paragraph; the author is several million dead bodies ahead of Chavez in the tyrant/war criminal category, and; whatever he has to say has the same moral credibility as Ribbentrop’s thoughts about the less than democratic Polish regime that was in place in August 1939.

Words really don’t exist to accurately describe what this country is turning into.

32. JJB - 2 December 2007


The people of Venezuela are indeed voting on a constitutional referendum today, so there is one truthful statement in Rummy’s despicable screed. My bad.

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

The agitprop about Venezuela was horrible all week. I hope the leftists get a huge win.

Oh, and Miss D, here’s a knitting project for you.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

oh, and I think I have a thing about Nazi Ratzi in moderation.

35. Miss Devore - 2 December 2007

31–that’s impressive. but catnip is the one with needle skills.

36. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Enjoyable news from the ancestral homeland:
Aberdeenshire Council says No Dice to the Donald, Derailing Disneyesque Development on Dunes.

Local Hero-style story’s complete with a tie-breaking council chairman and a holdout landowner named Forbes, who told Trump to stick his money.

Mr Forbes said he was “over the moon” after hearing the result.

He added: “Hopefully, Trump has now got the message that we’re not a bunch of cabbages up here.

Local opinion is very much divided (and contentious), so appeals and pro-resort scrambling may follow. But for now, birds trumped condo-building turds in the game of Oceanfront Knock-out Whist.

Some nice pix of Balmedie Beach and the dune system here and

37. marisacat - 2 December 2007

just let Madman and JJB out of Moderation (sorry!)



I caught a snippet on the big NO to Donald on news yesterday… the stretch of beach and dunes is incredibly beautiful. I hope it holds..


38. melvin - 2 December 2007


Local opinion is very much divided (and contentious)

Shocker. In Scotland? When I asked an old gentleman from Fife what he thought of independence, he said he would be all for it if he didn’t have to take “this bunch” along, referring to Glasgow.

39. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

Hammer Meet Nailhead

Erna Bennett

40. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

A couple more dune photos and a sweet-faced seal at Peterhead, a bit further north and east.

melvin – Aye weel, true enough.

BTW – Are you familiar with the Aberdeenshire band Old Blind Dogs? They won best folk band in the 07 Scots Trad Music Awards, and just released a new album. You can hear a few songs (including a tune called “Terror Time”) here. If you ever get a chance to see them live, they’re a treat.

41. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

On the Burnett vid link –big miss re Stalin opine, but Avery good series overall IMO

42. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

Avery= a very

43. melvin - 2 December 2007

40– Never OBD live – they should go to the Glasgow festival in Jauary more often! Great memories btw of Susana Sevaine burning down the Barrowlands.

44. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Thanks for that, BHHM. Now I’m scouring around looking for just the right tune from Dick Gaughan. . . .

45. melvin - 2 December 2007


46. marisacat - 2 December 2007

United for Russia, Putin’s party, loping in with 62 %…

No international elections observers, their visas were not approved in time………

– Jim Maceda from Moscow for NBC


on to Venezuela…

Chavez with a narrow win, counting not finished…

47. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

Is Paul in San Francisco a paid AIPAC operative?


48. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007
49. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

Some please tell Carl Levin that it is his support for the war that is destabilizing the Western Hemisphere. And why do Democrats feel obliged to denigrate Chavez, when Chavez is probably the only real glimmer of hope in our hemisphere?

Levin is disgusting.


In Washington, Democratic Senator Carl Levin denied President Chavez’s claims, saying there are no such plans to act against Venezuela’s government.

“First of all we are not seeking to destabilize him,” said Senator Levin. “His policies, his efforts at dictatorship, to amend the constitution so he can stay there for life, that is what is destabilizing Venezuela, not our policies.”

50. marisacat - 2 December 2007

oh how funny, when I followed the Wingless link, i noticed she now lists the site Atlas Shrugs on her “Must Reads”… a site belonging to a well known (online) nut case conservative woman.

How. appropriate.

51. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

Venezuela will vote on the following:


Lengthening presidential terms from six to seven years. Eliminating terms limits to allow the president to run for re-election indefinitely.

_ Redrawing the country’s political map and allowing the president to handpick provincial and municipal leaders.

_ Allowing the president to declare a state of emergency for an unlimited period, as long as “the causes that motivated it remain.”

_ Prohibiting large land estates. Allowing the state to provisionally occupy property slated for expropriation before a court has ruled.

_ Prohibiting foreign funding for “associations with political aims.” Critics warn this could be used to strangle human rights groups.

_ Creates three new classes of communal property, in addition to private and state property.

_ Establishing a socio-economic system based on “socialist, anti-imperialist principles.”

_ Granting the president control over the Central Bank, which previously had autonomy.

_ Reducing the official workday from eight to six hours.

_ Reducing the minimum voting age from 18 to 16.

_ Creating a fund to pay social security benefits for the first time to workers in the informal economy, such as maids and street vendors.

I agree with most of this. Anyone else have an opinion?

52. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

45 – Ha! Agree, that’s a beaut.

I’m very partial to this tune too – Erin Go Bragh – which someone has (hamhandedly, not to mention ironically) used for a bit of Scottish Independence agit-prop. (The song’s actually about Lowland Scottish prejudice against both the Irish and Highlanders, and includes a cop-killing via blackthorn bludgeon. Lyrics here.)

Another YouTuber did quite a nice job with Tom Paine’s Bones.

Old Tom Paine he ran so fast
He left me standing still
And there I was, a piece of paper in my hand
Standing at the top of the hill
It said, “This is the Age Of Reason
These are The Rights Of Man
Kick off religion and monarchy”
It was written there in Tom Paine’s plan

Old Tom Paine, there he lies
Nobody laughs and nobody cries
Where he’s gone or how he fares
Nobody knows and nobody cares

But I will dance to Tom Paine’s bones
Dance to Tom Paine’s bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine’s bones

53. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Blackthorn bludgeon and Tom Paine’s bones in spam.

Guardian: Chávez’s referendum gamble hangs in balance.

AFP: Venezuela awaits result of close-fought referendum.

The head of the country’s National Electoral Council, Tibisay Lucena, said some centers were operating late into the night processing ballots from voters who had been lined up when the centers closed. Until that time, she said, no exit poll data would be released.

54. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

United for Russia, Putin’s party, loping in with 62 %…

Does anybody else see at least *some* similarlity between Putin and Chavez?

They’re both heads of state with enornmous oil reserves. Chavez is mildy authoritarian. Putin is basically a dicatator.

But neither would be getting demonized right now if they weren’t rebelling against the neoliberal consensus.

I don’t really know a hell of a lot about Russia but it seems Putin is taking some of that money back from the oligarchs who stole it in the mid-90s. And you can’t do that if you’re not a bit of a gangster.

55. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

a site belonging to a well known (online) nut case conservative woman.

And Nazi.

Even that fat turd at Little Green Footballs distanced himself from her. It seems as if there’s an ex Nazi collaborationist party in Belgium that decided to drop its anti-semitic platform and concentrate on hating on Muslims and Pam was all too eager to go there and party with them.

56. marisacat - 2 December 2007

sorry… Arlas Shrugs caused my computer to crash.

Will check Spam now that i am back up…


57. marisacat - 2 December 2007

It seems as if there’s an ex Nazi collaborationist party in Belgium that decided to drop its anti-semitic platform and concentrate on hating on Muslims — HC

Bingo… exactly.

Yes Atlas is a freak and nutter. No question.

58. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

There are a couple there that are questionable (the Central Bank thing and the handpicking local leaders thing), but things OUR Congress has passed, NOT subject to a public ballot, are far more troubling than ANY of that.

Hell, the term limits thing? I remember so-called conservatives calling for that here when Reagan was President.

That is NOT the same thing as making himself dictator.

59. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Thanks, Marisacat.

I guess your PC has a gag reflex, too!

60. marisacat - 2 December 2007


well in a sense. Putin is ex KGB thug however. Chavez has some time to prove himself. Putin, imo is a ‘known known’. To use a Rummy and Jack Straw approved luntic phrase…

And you know, FDR was authoritarian as well.

I found John Dean’s mind blowing (for him, LOL) discoveries about the authoritarian model, well … a bit silly, as he still loves Goldwater.

Amazing what people refuse to see.

61. marisacat - 2 December 2007


I crashed from some PajamasMedia sponsored site, just the other night (I was reading back and around on Hillary rumors, LOL, so the joke is on me).

Makes you wonder about some of the code being passed around in various circles…

62. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

Amazing what people refuse to see.

I think the problem is that people in the USA don’t see class/economics as one variable to consider along with the other variables.

Naomi Klein really proves that neoliberalism requires repression.

But reversing neoliberalism?

Can you be totally pure and democratic? I guess you could argue that the more people you bring into the political process, the easier it is. And Chavez has done both, turned to a sort of mild authoritarianism while at the same time bringing the underclass into the political process. Maybe that makes him Huey Long. I don’t know.

But he doesn’t send journalists to Gitmo like a certain other country I know does.

63. marisacat - 2 December 2007

Huckabee up by 3 pts in Iowa. Romney is now gonna make The Kennedy Speech (ABC Evening News)… last I read they wanted to put that speech off to next year.


64. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

None of them can make the Kennedy speech because Kennedy was secular and they’re all religious loons.

65. marisacat - 2 December 2007

I think the problem is that people in the USA don’t see class/economics as one variable to consider along with the other variables.

What people? Who is that does not see class and economics, soci0-economic, as playing into everything?

USSR/Russia had problems before they ever rejected neoliberalism. And that is a model that has destroyed a lot of economies and people.

i am just sick of dilletantish ideology that leaves out people.

If John Dean understood authoritarianism, for real, like, you know, he’d eschew Goldwater.

his hero! as his heart goes pitty pat, and tons of Democrats read him like mad…

The narrowness of what we are served gets so old.

66. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

I’d be more impressed with the “my religion doesn’t matter” speeches if they kept it to themselves ALL THE REST OF THE FUCKING TIME.

67. marisacat - 2 December 2007


yes I agree… but yo know what I mean. The thing that is called The Kennedy Speech.

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

I like to read John Dean on Republican corruption like I like to read former burglers about how to secure your home. Takes one, etc …

69. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

USSR/Russia had problems before they ever rejected neoliberalism.

Well yes. That’s the point. Yeltsin had to suspend parliament and shoot a couple of hundred people to put his neoliberal “shock therapy” through. Jeffrey Sachs promised him huge amounts of aid from the USA that never came through.

Then the oligarchs stole half the country and it fell apart.

Putin seems to have recognized that neoliberalism just doesn’t work and keeps Russia in a semi-colonial state of decay. He was originally put in to maintain Yeltsin’s program. But he seems to be a nationalist who’s onto the scam that the “west” was playing on them. So he’s cracking down on the oligarchs and taking back (at least some of)what they stole. So he went from being Bush’s number one guy to McCain’s “I see three letters KGB”.

How do you deal with the mafia if you’re not a gangster yourself?

70. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

The thing that is called The Kennedy Speech.

What would a Wiccan Kennedy speech look like?

“If ever it got to the point where I was tempted to cast a spell that went against the interests of my country, I would resign my position immediately”.

71. marisacat - 2 December 2007

I agree Dean is very impressive on some things… and his testimony in Watergate remains one of the MOST impressive things I have seen.

But I also read him in the near run up to 04, within two weeks [prior] of election. he was buying all, and I do mean all, of the Dem spin. he believed they would fight the post election hard, if there was the least issue iwth the voting. I just rolled my eyes.

72. marisacat - 2 December 2007

well we have so much of the Russian mafia there, the various Russian gangs, he will probably jsut dump more of them on us.

73. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

Given that democracy is a phantasm, I doubt anyone can determine what is and what is not democratic, for all attempts to attain it are complete and utter failures. Perhaps different criteria should be utilized when we adjudicate what is and what is not an ethical mode of governing.

74. marisacat - 2 December 2007

let’s put i thtis way, I don’t see the suffering of the russian peoples ending any time soon.

It seems endless, no matter who runs that huge slab of land.

75. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

_ Establishing a socio-economic system based on “socialist, anti-imperialist principles.”

This is perhaps one method of proceeding. I am also fond of Chavez’s proposal to requisition large tracts of private land on behalf of the state. Reducing the voting age to 16 seems promising, especially as these youth will actually vote correctly now that they have been exposed to something that resembles socialism.

76. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

he doesn’t send journalists to Gitmo like a certain other country I know does.

Hats off to that!

On the other hand . . . .

77. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

let’s put i thtis way, I don’t see the suffering of the russian peoples ending any time soon

Or the Chinese people. Both countries are so huge it’s a double edged sword.

Either one organized well is pretty much immune from US and western colonial interference if it wants to be.

But both are so vast that the democratic process in either would be so easy to subvert and so complex that American money could play a role for the bad.

On the other hand, India’s a functioning democracy and has been for decades.

78. marisacat - 2 December 2007

On the other hand, India’s a functioning democracy and has been for decades.

And is perfectly happy with 300 million in a emerging and general middle class.

And the rest, but for the emerging and established wealthy, in abject poverty. But, no problem!

79. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

78 – exactly

But then again, India needs spare flesh if it is to wage war with Pakistan again. And notice Obama will be right there to help them.

80. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

What would a Wiccan Kennedy speech look like?

Don’t Worry! Be Happy!

81. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

But then again, India needs spare flesh if it is to wage war with Pakistan again.

And India’s currently being undercut economically by the global sweatshop that is China.

I wonder what it would take for a democratic revolution in China?

The USA’s ability to meddle would be pretty minimal compared to the Middle East but, then again, Indonesia had a couple of hundred million people in a vast, complex archipeligo and the good old US of A still made sure a nice friendly fascist stayed in power.

82. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007
83. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Whoops, wrong Reporters Without Borders link at 76.

Here’s the most recent: Constitutional reform seen as “dangerous watershed” for press freedom.

84. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

Age of Wal Mart Doc on CNBC is good so far for the first 10- 15min….

showed Jeffrey Katzenberg of Dreamworks feigning reticence.saying how they’re integral to DVD and CD .Yeh Jeff on the Left…

actually is pretty good so far into 30 min….

Looking for the formulaic hardsell company counterspin.

I dunno, maybe about an orphan, lead poisoned , XYZ fire victim with a new tree house ( her primary residence) built FREE! by company associates for the big finish. Then, the narrative conclusion that they have a “mixed record”…

Maybe Katzenberg, Spielberg, and Geffen will cartoonize Little Miss Lead Poison’s life, stamp it out and have it in the impulse buy cheapo bins for Christmas…


85. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

Anybody read Naomi Klein’s defense/praise of Hezbollah at the end of the Shock Doctrine?

Ignoring the fact that Moon is probably lurking right now and that some people think any involvement of Muslims in the political process is bad, I don’t know exactly how I think about this.

What’s her standard? It’s not the Answer “if it’s against the USA it’s good” standard. And I doubt she’d want to live under Hezbollah.

She seems to be a left Burkean (as in Edmunde Burke), a left conservative. You don’t fuck with the organic development of someone else’s culture (provided, and this is probably where she’d part from Edmun Burke) it’s “democratic” with a small “d”.

If the Lebanese Shiites want Hezbollah, so be it. If the Venezualans want Chavez, so be it.

Maybe I’m caricaturing her a bit but what if, for example, the American south wanted segregation? The Israelis want apartheid?

86. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Snippet from same:

In its original form in the 1999 constitution, article 338 said “the state of emergency can last 30 days, and can be renewed for the same period, or in cases of internal or external conflict, it can last as long as 90 days, and can be renewed for the same period.” The amended form drops any mention of a deadline for renewal and allows the president to proceed without referring to the supreme court, violating judicial precedent set by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights.

In its original form, article 337 said certain constitutional guarantees, including access to information, could not be suspended in a state of emergency decreed by the government. The amended version has dropped access to information from the list rights considered inviolable, even in a state of emergency.

National assembly deputy speaker Desiré Santos Amaral, herself a journalist, announced on 24 November that the law governing the work of journalists would be amended in 2008.

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007
88. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

If the Lebanese Shiites want Hezbollah, so be it. If the Venezualans want Chavez, so be it.

Sounds right to me. Hell, theofascists were (sorta) elected to run our country, after all. Who are we to throw stones?

89. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

Sounds right to me. Hell, theofascists were (sorta) elected to run our country, after all. Who are we to throw stones?

The most interesting parts of that book in some ways are the sections on the recovery from the Tsunami.

That’s where you really get the conflict between neoliberalism/imperialism and native/indigenous cultures.

She doesn’t even really go into what the subsistence fishing cultures in a lot of these places (Maldives, Thailand, etc.) are like. But the process still offends her. Cultures are like species. Assuming you can bulldoze a whole culture because it’s “backward” is arrogant and evil.

I started reading “Reflections on the French Revolution” after reading the Shock Doctrine and you’d be seriously amazed at the similarities in some of the language.

90. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

I dunno, maybe about an orphan, lead poisoned , XYZ fire victim with a new tree house ( her primary residence) built FREE! by company associates for the big finish. Then, the narrative conclusion that they have a “mixed record”…

LO freakin L. (Especially the treehouse.) I’ve had to listen to a family member’s defense of the company on the grounds that a local manager happened to treat a brain-damaged epileptic stepdaughter – a cashier – reasonably well. Gave her a Wal-Mart Scout Good Conduct Badge or the like, on top of her $8 an hour. Oh, and they let RV-ers use their parking lots at night.

On the bright side, this particular family member no longer tries to claim that the Waltons buy American.

91. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

Maybe I’m caricaturing her a bit but what if, for example, the American south wanted segregation? The Israelis want apartheid?

What if?

92. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

: D IB

93. marisacat - 2 December 2007

omigd. isn’t the pattern here Vietnam, let them self determine, let it evolve.

I had no desire to live in Vietnam after we pulled out nor when we warred/occupied/followed the French etc.

Let them determine. Same with Hizbollah… Same with Moqtadr… I don;t have to endorse people to see a function inside a society, a society that is not mine.

And really as long as we war, invade, kill, murder, destroy, assassinate, plot destruction thru IMF and WB, what can we say? We always have an agenda.

Somalia is a good picture… many many reports indicated that the ruling islamic courts (of last year sometime, iirc) brought some measure of peace. is this necessarily optimum? no, but: Let it be and work appropriately for a better day.

Instead we are warring on Somalia from three directions, at least.

Our biggest thing in Africa is abstinence and war. Think of it.

“our” way is horrific.

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

I will have to read that book.

95. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007


Americans obscure the authoritarian tendencies of our own state largely by swallowing a lot of bullshit about totalitarianism and absolutism. The basis of Western Democratic exceptionalism, which is at its height in the US, is an exceedingly banal idea of “real” autocracies as having no set or system of competing interest in government. It imagines autocratic governments of all types as uniform, unitary, and enduring, despite all evidence to the contrary: that autocratic regimes tend toward instability; that they feature frequent coups; that jockeying ministries, scheming generals, and court intrigues of all shapes and varieties flourish like mushrooms in the dark; that there are just as many aspirant Big Men in a military dictatorship as there are candidates in the August before a primary–and often more.

The genius of the American system is rooted in the fact that the Founders were Rome groupies to the man. By aping Roman forms they created a remarkable and sophisticated form of self-maintaining timocracy that was in its time, as much as the Roman Republic at its political height, a model of political equity, though by no means egalitarian. But by the same token, they adopted a form of government that was organically suited to the transition from an agrarian society to an ascendant and urbanizing commercial and mercantile major power to an actual, physical, far-flung, commercial and territorial empire that, at its height, had no terrestrial peer. I don’t intend to overburden the analogy, for there are a thousand other points where these histories diverge. Nevertheless, the surest similarity between the old Rome and the self-consciously new Rome is that they originated as republics and ended up as empires with remnant republican pretensions.

96. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

Somalia is a good picture… many many reports indicated that the ruling islamic courts (of last year sometime, iirc) brought some measure of peace.

Yeah. That was an especially grotesque intervention. Use Ethiopian troops, kill a bunch of people, put the warlords back in power, ship some people to black sites for torture and interrogation and create a refugee problem.

I think she escapes being a conservative though by the radical emphasis on democracy with a small “d”. Organic isn’t good enough. It has to be democratic with a small d and organic.

But if you look at history, compare the Paris Commune, for example, to the Soviet Union, what happens? Who beats the imperialists and who loses? The democrats with a small d tend to lose and the authoritarians tend to win.

And win only to create the conditions that make it easy to flip the whole society back to capitalism and a more grotesque form of capitalism (ie Mao paved the way for China as a global sweatshop, even though he did liberate China from western imperalism and even though the typical Chinese has it better now than under the British).

97. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

The genius of the American system is rooted in the fact that the Founders were Rome groupies to the man. By aping Roman forms they created a remarkable and sophisticated form of self-maintaining timocracy that was in its time, as much as the Roman Republic at its political height, a model of political equity, though by no means egalitarian.


When we think about this conjuring up of the dead of world history, a salient difference reveals itself. Camille Desmoulins, Danton, Robespierre, St. Just, Napoleon, the heroes as well as the parties and the masses of the old French Revolution, performed the task of their time – that of unchaining and establishing modern bourgeois society – in Roman costumes and with Roman phrases. The first one destroyed the feudal foundation and cut off the feudal heads that had grown on it. The other created inside France the only conditions under which free competition could be developed, parceled-out land properly used, and the unfettered productive power of the nation employed; and beyond the French borders it swept away feudal institutions everywhere, to provide, as far as necessary, bourgeois society in France with an appropriate up-to-date environment on the European continent. Once the new social formation was established, the antediluvian colossi disappeared and with them also the resurrected Romanism – the Brutuses, the Gracchi, the publicolas, the tribunes, the senators, and Caesar himself. Bourgeois society in its sober reality bred its own true interpreters and spokesmen in the Says, Cousins, Royer-Collards, Benjamin Constants, and Guizots; its real military leaders sat behind the office desk and the hog-headed Louis XVIII was its political chief. Entirely absorbed in the production of wealth and in peaceful competitive struggle, it no longer remembered that the ghosts of the Roman period had watched over its cradle.

98. marisacat - 2 December 2007

well I don’t think anyone denies the French Revolution… went more than a little insane.

I got a big hoot out of Joe Ellis in some talk after his last book, band of Brothers think that was the title, talked of how after the fact, after their death Jefferson and others had some of their writings amended or removed. They had praised the French Rovolution so highly, so passionately and then whooooops, just a lot of mad bloodletting at peak. Hilarious, esp considering what Joe Ellis was nabbed for doing. LOL

However US business practices in recent years are making big inroads on a more low key environment. Sad to say, and now Sarko will speed this up, esp at the top.

99. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

Smartest Drug Story of the Year

If I were maximum dictator, I would force every newspaper editor, every magazine editor, and every television producer in the land to read Ben Wallace-Wells’ 15,000-word article in the new (Dec. 13) issue of Rolling Stone, titled “How America Lost the War on Drugs.”

Wallace-Wells captures the complete costs of the drug war better than any journalist I’ve read in a long time. He documents how the federal government has dropped about $500 billion combating illicit drugs over the past 35 years. Nearly 500,000 people sit in jail or prison for drug crimes, “a twelvefold increase since 1980,” Wallace-Wells writes. For all the money the government has spent and all the people it’s jailed, it’s still failed to make a long-term impact on the availability of drugs. The militarized drug-control techniques favored by the Bush administration, he reports, have increased violence and political corruption abroad, violated human rights, and destabilized several Latin American nations.

Wallace-Wells’ accomplishment, while formidable, didn’t require the back-channel confidential sources that Bob Woodward relies on or the mildewed library stacks of obscure documents that made up I.F. Stone’s arsenal. Wallace-Wells gets the story and gets it well by approaching the much pawed-over topic with an open mind and a smart set of questions. Like an auditor called in to assess the wreck of a Fortune 500 company, he asks what the government has gotten for the half-trillion dollars it has spent on the drug war and takes the question to the limits.

There is no reason that this project couldn’t have been conceived and executed by any newspaper in America. No reason except that too many editors, most of whom have indulged in illicit substances, fear the consequences of telling their readers the truth about drugs (canceled subscriptions, invective from Limbaugh and O’Reilly, loss of respect at the country club or university club).

Wallace-Wells believes that a heavily subsidized drug-treatment program, think-tanked to the top of the Clinton administration’s policy pile, could have reduced crime and drug use if Newt Gingrich and the Republicans hadn’t taken complete control of Congress. We’ll never know. He writes that Clinton acquiesced to the Republicans because he didn’t want to appear soft on crime or drugs, letting Clinton off too easy in the process unless, of course, Newt put a gun to Clinton’s head and forced him to appoint the tyrannical Barry McCaffrey to the drug czar throne in 1996.

Wallace-Wells’ skillful illustration of the international repercussions of the repressive Nixon-Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush war on drugs, which threatens to turn Peru and Mexico into narco-states, inspired me to revisit economist David R. Henderson’s findings on the effects of stringent drug control. In a working paper circulated in the late 1970s and finally in a 1991 paper published in the University of California-Davis Law Review (1991. 24: 655-676) titled “A Humane Economist’s Case for Drug Legalization,” Henderson shows how increased penalties never have the effects on drug markets predicted by governments.

100. marisacat - 2 December 2007

oh stop the presses! I nearly forgot.. LOL:

Mme Chirac has endorsed Hillary.

Soo relieved.

101. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007
102. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

The foregoing said, I’m under no delusion that the Dem Pols Edwards and Obama hopped up on the dias, the various local hacks around he country—- for the big time pols it simply BullShit produced not surprisingly for wholesale consumption

On the local level.it all about the shakedown, a few contracts carved out for somebodies brother in law, maybe a parking lot paving contract some concrete pours for curb cuts….the envelopes of cash, the 50 inch flatscreens for the local zoning board and union hacks to take a walk etc…

Going into 2008…. nothin’ to worry about for The Company from Bentonville, Arkansas …. Not with “Aw Shucks” Hill , Bill ,and Huck quite down with the deal…Not that anyone else hasn’t been as easily rolled…

103. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

#99 –Fainting couch available if needed Mcat. LOL

104. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

well I don’t think anyone denies the French Revolution… went more than a little insane.

Interestingly enough, 2500 people died in “the terror” of the first French Revolution.

80,000 died when the French capitalists suppressed the Commune in 1871. 3000 died in the “June Days” in 1848 when the capitalists suppressed the workers and 25,000 were shipped of to Algeria.

But what I think Marx is saying is that the Roman groupieism wasn’t insane. It was what they had to do to smash feudalism.

IOZ seems to be making a slightly differerent argument. Marx is saying that the French revolutionaries used Roman forms to smash feudlism, then threw it away and became simple capitalists.

IOZ seems to be saying that it became a permanent part of American politics and it kind of does make sense because of slavery and the way the Southern democrats dominated American politics through seniority etc.

105. marisacat - 2 December 2007

well I am n ot saying that the French Revolution was the Greatest Bloodletting Ever. It was not, and frankly, it had to happen.

I am nto interested, personally, in formenting violence, but all forms of it are in human nature and it will surface for reasons other than State waged conscription war.

106. marisacat - 2 December 2007

fomenting. Lose the ‘r”

107. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

I’m more interested in what we remember.

When I read the Shock Doctrine what really suprised me was the fact that I had never even heard of how Yeltsin disbanded parliament and killed several hundred people in the process.

I vaguely remember something about the “turmoil” in Russia but I think I just bought the idea that there were some ex communists causing trouble.

But we really do all remember how the old drunk stood on the tank.

108. marisacat - 2 December 2007

But we really do all remember how the old drunk stood on the tank.

taht was on CNN.

109. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

you have to look hard to get the real story, and usually look BACK.

That’s true of everything, every place, and you’ll never know it all.

The biggest difference btwn the American and French revolutions is that the Americans baked into the structure a distrust of everybody, including themselves, while the French Revolutionaries made themselves the Law. I’m under no illusions that our founding fathers are the saints we’re all taught that they are … the plain fact of the matter is that they didn’t trust the people, they didn’t trust each other and they didn’t trust themselves. They set up a system for perpetual conflict because of those facts.

I find most troubling, out of so many troubling things, all of this talk about how our politics is too contentious, too partisan. BULLSHIT. It’s not contentious enough. It’s broken and not working because there is TOO MUCH consensus. One War Party, in pursuit of hegemony and perpetual profit.

110. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

I’m gonna buy a copy of Klein for the Yuletide potlatch, and read as much as I can, before purchasing more and/or handing it off.

Madman – meant to thank you for the yarny brainform way upthread at 33. Talk about taking on the ravelled sleave of care!

Must pass that link on to a friend – her daughter’s a neuroscience PhD candidate, too. Maybe she’ll take up knitting, as well! (BTW – Does anyone know if peeder applied the Barrett gun to Lord Stomach Flu? Or did Alan Smithee run him off barehanded?) 🙂

Oh, and catnip, if you’re out there – thanks again for the crossed fronds. Passport came in from the birth country last week.

Bon soir, salonly comrades. Thanks as always for the unrated space, light, and fun.

111. moiv - 2 December 2007

Mme Chirac has endorsed Hillary.

And so has Bobby Kennedy the Younger.

112. marisacat - 2 December 2007

(BTW – Does anyone know if peeder applied the Barrett gun to Lord Stomach Flu? Or did Alan Smithee run him off barehanded?)

LOL Think Smithee did it, solo…

It was fun to watch. DB has always been a wuss. He was rolling in clover at PFF…

113. marisacat - 2 December 2007


right moiv… and you know when I raed that I thought of his big fancy expose of Ohio………and that of course he knew/knows every little thing the strangle tangle twins, the Clintons, did to triangulate voter/voting issues in 04.

114. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

yvw, IB.

Boing Boing links to knitting sites frequently. I thought the brain was cool.

115. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

Going into 2008…. nothin’ to worry about for The Company from Bentonville, Arkansas …. Not with “Aw Shucks” Hill , Bill ,and Huck quite down with the deal…Not that anyone else hasn’t been as easily rolled…

And remember that Michelle Obama served on the board of a major WAL-MART distributor. All of them are members of the Walton empire, especially Michelle Obama, who cut her deep ties with WAL-MART after O’Barry claimed he would never shop there when speaking to the AFL-CIO in Trenton, New Jersey on May 14, 2007.

Notice that this is now a part of Michelle Obama’s Wikipedia entry:


And notice that Daley, a major Obama backer, vetoed the Big Box Ordinance that would have forced WAL-MART to pay Chicagoans a living wage. So much for O’Barry’s community organizing.

Obama, Daley and Michelle Obama are all on the payroll of the Waltons. Is anyone surprised?

116. marisacat - 2 December 2007

LOL I am hoping it gets quite nasty between Hillary and Obama. madman pointed out it, the animosity that is building, is one reaosn obama sat in the window at the Manhattan luncheonette where he had breakfast with Bloomberg…

I was sorry to fall back asleep this am and miss Wolfson and Axelrod on Face the Nation.

I am still offering to hold the bucket to catch the run off.. LOL, if they will both go for big arteries…


117. moiv - 2 December 2007

Raise the hammer hammered Kennedy pretty hard, pointing out that everyone else seems to be giving him a pass.

[Kennedy] said five companies control 80 percent of newspapers and almost all radio, and those corporations are not in business to tell news thoroughly or fairly. “The only ideology they represent is their own pockets,” Kennedy said. So his criticism of the corporate plutocracy seems as strong as ever.

Such honest views of the sad state of America have made Kennedy the darling of many people – independents, liberals, progressives and environmentalists.

But the news that this esteemed honest liberal has endorsed the candidacy of Hillary Clinton was startling. Now he says: “Hillary Clinton has the strength and experience to bring the war in Iraq to an end and reverse the potentially devastating effects of global warming. …Hillary will inspire the real change America needs.”

That Kennedy can see Hillary as an agent of change is a betrayal of all the good will that Kennedy has built up over many years.

Kennedy said he feels “very uncomfortable” about the amount of corporate money flowing into Clinton’s campaign, “But I also think you can’t come into this race with one arm tied behind your back.”

How’s that for convenient rationalization? There is no reason why any sane American should be very comfortable about the poisonous and corrupting amount of corporate money dumped into Clinton’s campaign.

In examining media coverage of Kennedy’s endorsement of Clinton, I could find no references to his earlier critical remarks of Democrats and the corporatist plutocracy. However, people commenting on the New York Times article often were aghast at his endorsement, noting that it would have made much more sense for him to endorse Obama or Edwards.

Bloggers, so far, have also not been critical of the Kennedy endorsement. The progressive community seems frozen by self-delusion and unwilling to criticize their adored Kennedy.

Here is my take: Hillary Clinton represents the worst of the Democratic contenders. She is totally committed to take all the corporate money she can get and pay whatever that eventually costs, should she become president. She really is a hawk when it comes to the Iraq war and even voted the wrong way recently when it comes to Iran.

She is incredibly dishonest and phony. The reason why there are millions of Hillary haters is that she inspires distrust.

A Hillary presidency would pursue corporate globalization and the terrible trade policies of her husband that has done so much to destroy America’s middle class. Similarly, her views on universal health coverage do not seem focused on getting rid of all the insurance industry involvement.

Kennedy’s endorsement of Hillary just shows how the status quo political establishment can rig the system to get what it wants. What has Bobby been promised? Head of the US EPA? Support for replacing Hillary in the Senate? Who knows? But his endorsement stinks and puts a big blemish on his credibility and reputation.

118. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

I imagine all of you have already read this:


These sentences are particularly pithy:

He rejects reparations, played footsie with Chicago’s corrupt Daley Machine and ignored its police brutality, caved to the Israel Lobby, voted for Condi Rice, equivocated on war funding (voting for it before he was against it), and his health care plan isn’t universal. The only thing he hasn’t done is walk up and down the streets of America peddling his ass like a prostitute.

Barack Obama’s presidential campaign is a black middle class fantasy, an idealistic delusion of epic proportions that those outside of the black community have hijacked to achieve their own malevolent ends.

119. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

112 – Those “e”s must stand for “extra-efficient.” Clover patch to skunkweed rash in 60 seconds flat!

Leaving One Sad Donkey Behind – bereft with blowpipe and up-skirt agenda. Doo Wacka Doo Wacka Doo!

120. Intermittent Bystander - 2 December 2007

Skunky roadrash, I mean.

121. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 December 2007

So, I finally watched “Flags of Our Fathers” on cable.

How can Eastwood make movies like this and still be a Republican, at least as that party has comported itself since the end of that war? This is not to say that the Donklephants aren’t as culpable for the state-delivered terrorism, the militarism, but just to recognize that the Reps REVEL in the blood and gore and human sacrifice.

Still, though, how can you produce something like this and not recoil in horror from the status quo?

People shouldn’t be thrown away cheaply. Soldiers shouldn’t be reduced to mere tools of the state (though I know, intellectually that this is precisely what they are).

Why won’t we learn, why won’t we stop doing this?

It’s by no means a great film, or anything like that, but it does focus more than many such films on the human cost. It’s sick that our media, our citizenry, our two-faced political leadership, are so blythe about it.

No, we make some movies about it, write some books about it, then go ahead and needlessly start the slaughter anew.

This nation is insane.

122. Hair Club for Men - 2 December 2007

Chavez seems to have lost the referendum.

123. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

I imagine Chavez already has a successor or two.

124. marisacat - 2 December 2007

CNN on Venezuela… will find other things over night…

125. marisacat - 2 December 2007

from the cnn link:

About 51 percent of voters opposed the amendments, while approximately 49 percent were in favor of them.

“Don’t feel sad. Don’t feel burdened,” Chavez told supporters immediately after the results were announced.

More than nine million of Venezuelan’s 16 million eligible voters went to the polls Sunday.

President of the National Electoral Council, Tibisay Lucena, said the process “shows the entire world that we are a democratic country.”

Chavez, in what he called a talk “from my heart” acknowledging the results, thanked those who opposed his proposal, saying the election had proven that Venezuelan democracy is maturing.

Thousands of people gathered in the streets, many of them university students who worked to defeat the measure, burst into singing their country’s national anthem upon hearing the news.

126. marisacat - 2 December 2007

Business Day, South Africa, 8 mins ago, per Google upchuck… it equivocates.

Most report headlines indicated he was winning til about an hour ago…

127. antihegemonic - 2 December 2007

And panegyrists for capitalism and imperialism who staff the American media will view this as an augury of American global hegemony of capitalism’s final triumph. Sarkozy will be paraded about once again; Bush’s approval rating will experience a temporary spike; gas prices will fall for two days; a Democrat will file a bill commemorating Venezuela for rejecting socialist terror. Wake me when the social nightmare is over.

128. wu ming - 2 December 2007

should be interesting to see how it pans out. a lot depends on the integrity of the vote (no way for me to figure it out).

129. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

Kitchen sink here, from Biz TV, Warren Buffet to Marx,
and “Marriage”

I was simultaneously going through some reading while i rolled from the Wal Mart doc on CNBC into a piece on Warren Buffett. (Please don’t ask why…)

If you fall into a Biz Channel, it’s relentless.
On my cable line up here, CNBC is sandwiched between CNN and MSNBC. followed by Fox ..

Anyways,The puff piece has a lot on his move into Israel and China…Goes on about the Israeli tooling Investment and their critical position into Chinese manufacturing robotics, etc..

Lot of footage how he was coaxed “reluctantly” into Foreign investment, the unquestioned given that capital will seek low wage production….Lot of footage on the BizJet so…ah…so much for going coach on a common carriers I guess..Before they’re even finished waxing about investment in China they’re already talking about the necessity of moving to capitalize on lower wage workers available in Viet Nam…..

How are the profits of Manufacturing and Energy Congloms who fuel it to be secured with unfettered Globalization and Peak Oil???

Costs ensuring a clean, safe Environment? OFF THE TABLE.
Every Dollar of Living wage denied is a dollar of Profit accrued…

It’s so very fucked…. Globalization and Peak Oil are a Planet killing crisis..Everything is subordinated to an insane Money Religion. The presentation of Buffet-as-Happy-Grandpa is a real piece of work as is the notion of participatory accessible markets: A single share of his conglom, Bershire Hathaway is a HUNDRED GRAND. It’s a King’s market the sucker’s are left in the dirt.. Pension Funds , whose rules can change, and whose retirees can be left in an altered economic landscape arejust their for the raping and benefit of the Trustees and ther scaddling of Union goons who still preside over them here and there…

130. BooHooHooMan - 2 December 2007

I know I’m jumping around here but I’ve been giving thought to how any group or coalition is to counter this momentum, especially in a Capitalist Police State with such heavy media propoganda…

It really comes down to a fight for the minds of youth. This is hardly exclusive to “Communist Propoganda” — what a joke, THAT meme, THAT Bogeyman that was beaten into my head at least in Catholic grade school and High School…..

The Apeshit response to “Gay” Marriage &Families Adoption, etc and Polygamy too is a Capitalist given defending the “Nuclear” family (never more of an appropriate term now , no? )

WTF would happen if you had a notion of “marriage” and family based on something else while Western Capitalist society tries to keep up the privileges for it as an institution??? It means that communities of conscience would flourish, some pervo loon groups to be sure…

But “families” would also mean that if you were down ideologically with any number of iterations of people. You could then “marry- in” _________________<<<<—whoever mutual hearts and minds desire.

The wedding announcements would certainly be interesting:

Though the groom was looking for a bride, he fell in love with Hans and Gunter from Berlin, Evevelyn and Jane in New York and..Lisa and Nick in … And Lou and Rita and …..

They married in an ecumenical Trotskyist , Environmental Liberation Front Ceremony at an undisclosed location. In a concession to the Conservative In laws of George and Madelyn’s parents who are Democrat’s they were allowed to attend the ceremony blindfolded.

The family plans to adopt..A few are doin the nasty. The new groom has a girlfriend who just can’t commit…

Think about local housing laws…Say you’re interested in setting up an activist house with workers co-op…uh…IN A DECENT NEIGHBORHOOD…Local housing laws here in a large “single family home” prohibit housing over certain number of non family members….But if you’re in a traditional marriage and you fuck your way to a small Army well , that’s different…

The foregoing is neither an endorsement nor condemnation of any of hypothetical “Family” structs …just illustrates how th traditional Judeo Christain State Imprimatur mariginalizes non capitalistic “kinship”…

131. marisacat - 2 December 2007

The presentation of Buffet-as-Happy-Grandpa is a real piece of work — BHHM


and tell me, in what world, does George Clooney (who really is no one) calls up Eric Prince and says, what could you and your guys do to help out in Darfur? (which is dying from malignant attention).

And of course they are both at charlie Rose, two days apart to promote the phone call as part of Happy Blackwater (no no NOT mercenaries, nice guys who ‘help”).



well you know when the Clintons went in in 92, there was general talk around that “any household should be a family” … forget parsing wh is under the roof.

Two maiden sisters, a gay family, a loose knit group of people who live together, a married hetero couple, an unmarried couple, who cares… and whatever else… as in, let people be, and don’t fuss so damned much.

It seemed sort of early gentle conditioning to maybe opening marriage, at least to gay couples.

Musta driven the righties nuts.

132. marisacat - 2 December 2007

LOL Rove memo to Obama (no really) In the Financial Times:

The good news is you have again got “the buzz”. Polls are looking better for you in Iowa and the other early states. Your press is improving, with your performance at the Iowa Jefferson-Jackson dinner a big help. Hillary Clinton has made unforced errors. But she is still the frontrunner and there are several things you need to do quickly to win.

First, stop acting like a vitamin-deficient Adlai Stevenson. Striking a pose of being high-minded and too pure will not work. Americans want to see you scrapping and fighting for the job, not in a mean or ugly way but in a forceful and straightforward way.

LOL it was in the FT in December of 03 that I read some R oeprative quoted that if Kerry was the nom they’d eviscerate his war record, by the time they were done, no one would know what side he had fought on. And that they had a comprehensive plan for anyone who got the Dem party nom.

All you can do is laugh.

133. marisacat - 2 December 2007

ooo the close is the kicker… yum! POPCORN…

Hillary comes across as cold, distant and conspiracy-minded, more like Richard Nixon than her sunny, charming husband. During the Clinton presidency she oversaw a disaster (the effort to sell Hillarycare) and argued hard against welfare reform, one of the promises on which he had campaigned. She is a hard-nosed competitor with a tough and seasoned staff.

But her record is weak, her personality off-putting and her support thin. If she wins the nomination it will be because her rivals – namely you – were weak when you confronted her and could not look her in the eye when you did. She is beatable but you have to raise your game. Iowa is your great chance for a breakthrough. Win it convincingly and you can build on it in the contests that follow. Lose it and victory becomes much more difficult.

134. Intermittent Bystander - 3 December 2007

Phone call to hrh (aka, “supervixen,” Registrar of Band Names):

Is Pervo Loon Group already taken?

Good night!

135. marisacat - 3 December 2007

Irish Times has a round up on Iowa, mostly on Hillary (they menton the incident where she was boo’d) v Obama battle.

136. BooHooHooMan - 3 December 2007

IB,LOL ,Re Pervo Loon groups— we have that now…Warren Jeffs is no far distance from the Catholic Church …

In Light of Immigration laws and privileges, The Legal Definition of Marriage and Family as Headed by Monogomous Heteros ( as if thats real, in practice) prevents political breeding as it were…

IB wanna get married ??? I’ll send Chavez and Morales and Ahmedinijad flowers…Okay so maybe Ahmedinijad is out…So we send for Hugo and Evo, get em citizenship , man the grille for dinner…

When the campaigns call closer to the 2008 Election we can say

Oh GAWD NO! My husband, husband, husband and husband ARE NOT VOTING FOR HILLARY…

137. BooHooHooMan - 3 December 2007

I still think the Rove M.O. is to keep the D nom away from Edwards.

White male, drawl, little kids, dead son, and breast cancer in the family talking about the “great divide” —yayaya

Doesn’ t even matter as much that it is coming from a millionaires perch as that can easily be spun into the American Dream fantasy, a morph on Clinton’s “Hope”…

But Rove needs a Viet Nam Era candidate or Deep D baggage referendum candidate ..Hill’s the preferable candidate to run against win or lose for the GOP …a fundraising winner to Battle the Anti Christ

Obama he can kill off with race baiting aside from what the polls show. And kill off much of the young idealists who support him right along with it..In the Event of an Obama Acendency and with whatever proxy they’d have to come up with to do it, Barack would have some CrackHo’s “for Truth” Committee set up against his ass…

With Edwards, Rove’s got Haircuts and Hedgefunds against a sympathetic narrative…The Coulter “faggot” meme the “sissy” with the haircut is the tell tale tip off to the direction they’d go …

The hair/ the dandy= Vain, distracted, and ambitious both as context over his support of AUMF. and subtext to EE’s illness..

Nasty business over who gets the MIC car keys for a spin….

138. Miss Devore - 3 December 2007

112-Smithee wiped the floor with DB.

139. marisacat - 3 December 2007

new post, thread…


140. Intermittent Bystander - 3 December 2007

BHHM – Monday morning and the florist’s van approaches through the sleet and freezing rain . . . The card in the carnations reads: I NEED to give birth to your HEATHEN PAN-AMERICAN HORDES!

141. BooHooHooMan - 3 December 2007



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