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Because you were dying to know (NOT!)…. 11 December 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

Celebrity Endorsement Count

Do celebrity endorsements matter to voters? Most say no, big names don’t drive voters to the polls — or sway their ultimate decisions. But they do create a buzz — the Oprah Winfrey coverage could continue right through the week — and prompt softer, personality-driven reporting on Obama.

So we at On Call have compiled an endorsement list for all the candidates. The Dems, not surprisingly, outshine the Republicans. If we’ve missed any, let us know …


Hillary Clinton:
Tony Bennett
Barbara Streisand
Magic Johnson
Maya Angelou
Steven Spielberg
Rob Reiner
John Grisham
Carly Simon
Mary Steenburgen
Ted Danson
Billie Jean King
Victoria Rowell
Quincy Jones
Carole King

Barack Obama:
Oprah Winfrey
George Clooney
Scarlett Johanson
Will Smith
Halle Barry
Zach Braff
Jessica Biel

John Edwards:
Jackson Browne
Kevin Bacon
Tim Robbins
Bonnie Raitt
John Mellencamp
Jean Smart
Madeleine Stowe
Lance Armstrong

Chris Dodd:
Paul Simon
Lorne Michaels
Richard Plepler
Paul Newman (did an event for Dodd in Ct., but hasn’t endorsed officially)

Bill Richardson:
Unser brothers (racing legends)
Lee Iacocoa
Martin Sheen

Dennis Kucinich
Sean Penn


Rudy Giuliani:
Bo Derek
Robert Duvall
Kelsey Grammer
Cheryl Ladd
Dennis Miller
John O’Hurley
Adam Sandler
Tom Selleck
Ron Silver
David Zucker

Mike Huckabee:
Chuck Norris
Ric Flair

Fred Thompson:
Pat Sajak

John McCain:
Curt Schilling

Mitt Romney:
Randy Owen


Posted at 03:55 PM |

snagged whole from Hotline on Call…. also Carole Shea Porter (D-NH) has endorsed Obama, as has Hodes.  Maya Angelou has a radio commercial up for Hillary, “my girl” in SC — and, again according to HoC, Bob Vila is in Iowa to stump for Hillary.

MyDD has post up on a poll taken in SC over the weekend, so as OprahPalooza mit Obama and wif were stumping…. some moves of AA votes (LOL prospective votes!) but not a budge (yet! keep hoping!) for white votes.

For some reason, the MyDD poster is surprised:

The shift appears to be due almost entirely to African-American voters who as recently as Dec. 3-4, when the latest Rasmussen poll was in the field, had been found to be abandoning Senator Clinton although it wasn’t clear yet that they were sold on Senator Obama. Thanks to Oprah Winfrey, that appears to be changing.

I find the the fact that Oprah is moving African-American voters exclusively fairly fascinating considering her cultural impact so clearly transcends race.

Just repeating what I posted earlier, this will move some smallish number of Black votes in NC (they go to the polls Jan 29 iirc) and be virtually a wash in Iowa and NH… In my opinion that is.  People might remember she did a full week of promo for Beloved… hmmm?  And her offering this season is a very white rendition of a Mitch Albom story…

gah. Twice over.

In case you need amusement – and I do – here is a treat of juvenalia that I landed on during the night… 8)

Frankly, the best solution would probably be for Bush to come clean on what he authorized and throw himself on the mercy of the electorate. He could just say that he went too far in an excess of caution, and that the buck stops with him. We could probably forgive him…at least we could forego impeaching him or prosecuting the people that followed his orders.

We might even tolerate some extensive pardons. But that is very unlikely to happen. And if the president is not going to accept blame and responsibility, we have little choice but to treat his crimes as crimes. Torture is, after all, a war crime. It’s illegal, as is destroying evidence and lying to federal prosecutors and judges. I know the Village desperately wants to avoid holding people to account for these crimes, but we have a little thing called the rule of law and people’s rights. We can’t just jettison them because they make us feel bad about ourselves.


Carrying a comment of HCfM forward, in the spirit of my little story below:

Et Tu Susan?

Adalah-New York was understandably upset that Susan Sarandon went shopping at the grand opening of Leviev, the jewelry store owned by a Russian/Israeli Jew who has backed the settlements in the West Bank. Adalah wrote her a letter, asking her to cut her ties with the store. Sarandon’s people emailed them back. “We received the information you sent. Ms. Sarandon will do her own exploration on this topic before drawing any conclusions.” Adalah is saying happily that Sarandon is “exploring” the character of the store. This is absurd. No one needs to do an “exploration”; support for the settlements is patently offensive, as offensive as support for Jim Crow in the ’60s. Sarandon, a leftwinger, should join the outcry, and try to redeem the New York liberal establishment on this question


Other than that, we have (I think) a rat on our little back alley.  I had heard sightings of leavings (to be delicate) but the problem had not reached my house or back garden… however… today, when I went to my enclosed back porch to put out a bag (double bagged and tied) of garbage I had put there last night, whatever it is had gotten to my porch and had tried to get at the garbage.

Oh ugh.  Rats, how appropriate to the political season…





1. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Rudy’s got a nice little stable of celebs there.

But I’m going to have to go with Huckabee.

2. ms_xeno - 11 December 2007

Drift from last thread:

HC, of course Nader blew up the towers. He has Mid-East blood. I have this on good authority despite his alarming resemblance to the uncles on the side of my family that isn’t subject to male-pattern baldness before the age of twenty.

He couldn’t help himself. 😉

3. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Well Nader had to blow up the towers. The last thing he did (causing the Great Depression) was a tough act to top.

4. marisacat - 11 December 2007

I just read that the head of the Minutemen endorsed Hucka beeeeeeeeeeeee….

and although HillGirl was on stage here in sf with Buffett (and they did an interview show for Fox Business News) he is not endorsing. He has said he likes both Hill and Ob and will “help both”. The white liberals slurppped it up out here.. they just love that cute little bedtime story he tells about Leona and her dog Trouble who inherited 12 mil.


5. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Frank Rich was on MSNBC heavily pushing Le Obama.

6. marisacat - 11 December 2007

His column on SUnday was thinly veiled for Obama, using Huckabee as a device. Just as Krugman is thinly veiled (hardly at all, LOL) for Hillary.

Distribute weapons etc.

7. marisacat - 11 December 2007

National Review endorsed Romney… what a hoot!, they call him a “full spectrum” conservative.

Whatever that means.

8. marisacat - 11 December 2007

whoopsie! 11 years ago he was a liberal. Been trying to forget ever since. But! that HillGirl, they found the proof.

9. Miss Devore - 11 December 2007

Ok, a game: celebrity endorsements candidates would hate to have.

OJ endorses Obama “The big O’s”

10. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Osama endorses his namesake Obama.

11. marisacat - 11 December 2007

Madman has a new one up, on Christian Warrior WOman…


12. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Great speech by Cindy Sheehan in the middle of this trailer.

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

a “full spectrum” conservative.

Like a weed killer, or antibiotic?

14. melvin - 11 December 2007

Let’s be fair now.

Mike Gravel has been endorsed by Charo and Yma Sumac, who will share the stage with him at selected venues on her comeback tour.

Duncan Hunter will be introduced by Jan Michael Vincent in his next few appearances.

And Tom Tancredo has been endorsed by Marjorie Main and Walter Brennan, neither of whom could be reached for comment.

15. ms_xeno - 11 December 2007

All the members of the band Alabama endorse Obama.

Creed and/or Nickelback endorse… well, anyone. What could be worse ?

16. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

All the members of the band Alabama endorse Obama.

Anybody pick up any Nascar stars yet?

That would be a big one for Obama.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

oh, thanks for the link.

18. ms_xeno - 11 December 2007

Of course the real cliff hanger is whether Eminem will jump ship to share the stage with Ron Paul this time out.

19. melvin - 11 December 2007

Ron Paul:

Mrs Paul and all her fish sticks

DePaul University

RuPaul (family ties triumph over sisterhood and the expected Giuliani endorsement)

20. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Of course the real cliff hanger is whether Eminem will jump ship to share the stage with Ron Paul this time out.

Maybe Hillary could get Vanilla Ice to endorse Obama.

21. marisacat - 11 December 2007

Paulist priests endorse Ron Paul. Tho he probably would find a way to turn it to a big plus.

Some rapist appealing his conviction in ARK endorses Huckabee.

22. melvin - 11 December 2007

Bibliomancy reveals the apostle Paul endorses Ron Paul in coded message in First Corinthians.

23. Hair Club for Men - 11 December 2007

Paul would need to get Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or some big tech star to endorse him but it’s not going to happen.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs both know that the “libertarian” myth around the tech industry is 100% bullshit. That’s why Gates is a Republican. I guess Jobs is a Democrat beause it’s slightly cooler to be a Democrat.

24. bayprairie - 11 December 2007

always get the surf report from someone within sight of the ocean.

We’re going to learn a little about the mood of the country tonight, when we see the results from the special elections in OH-05 and VA-01. If the Dems win either race it will create a tsunami. And the Dems definitely have a chance in the Ohio race, where Robin Weirauch is running a John Edwards style race in a socially conservative district.

from virginia.gov
December 11, 2007 Special Election Unofficial Results

from state.oh.us
Ohio Secretary of State Live Election Results

tsunami? dude, the surf looks like glass.

looks like all your board are belong to us.

25. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

Juan Cole:

So the hostages weren’t released because Reagan was tough on the Iranian regime. They were released because Casey promised that the Republicans would sell Khomeini weapons if they kept the hostages for an extra couple of months and denied Jimmy Carter the sort of diplomatic coup that might have rescued his presidency.

Not only was Reagan not in fact ‘tough’ on the ayatollahs in Tehran, he later on stole Pentagon weaponry from the warehouses, illegally sold this US military materiel to a terrorist regime (that of Khomeini), then pocketed the money from the illegal arms sales to ‘Islamic terrorists’ and laundered it through shadowy bank accounts, sending it to far rightwing death squads in Nicaragua.

Besides, they aren’t “Islamic” terrorists because Islam forbids terrorism. They might be Muslim terrorists, but then not very good Muslims. When will Giuliani denounce the “Catholic terrorism” of some prominent priests who were active in the Irish Republican Army? Would he talk about “Jewish terrorism” in regard to the blowing up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem?

26. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

’tis the season

The continuing battle over a nativity scene at the Olean Municipal Building took another twist Monday night, when someone ran over a 5-foot-tall Wiccan pentacle set up next to the nativity scene.

City officials confirmed that someone ran over the pentacle at about 10:15 p.m. Monday, and police are investigating the act of vandalism as a hate crime.

27. aemd - 11 December 2007

’tis the season alright. 😉

“Six young people were shot Tuesday after they stepped off a bus that had left a high school, with at least one critically hurt, in an attack just blocks from two elementary schools, authorities said.

Gunshots tore through the working class residential neighborhood in northeast Las Vegas just before 2 p.m., Officer Bill Cassell said.”


28. moiv - 11 December 2007

Good evening, all.

Madman, that’s a great post you have up. I’ve sent it around to friends of, shall we say, a similar bent?

29. moiv - 11 December 2007

aemd @ 26

Must have been another roving pack of secular humanists.

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

Thanks moiv.

Oh, stumbled across this link that wouldn’t be appreciated by kos’ bestest corporate friends.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

Religion is child abuse, Sometimes literally:

A teenage girl from Mississauga is in critical condition. She was fearful of her father and brother after arguments about whether she had to wear loose clothing and a hijab to school. Her father called 911 and told police that he had killed his daughter. She is in critical condition. Her father will be charged with murder or attempted murder depending on whether she dies or lives.

In an update added to the blog later, the girl did die from her injuries. From the link with the update:

TORONTO (Reuters) – A Canadian teenager who was said to have clashed with her father about whether she should wear a traditional Muslim head scarf died of injuries late on Monday, and her father told police he had killed her.

Aqsa Parvez, 16, was found without a pulse in her home in the Toronto suburb of Mississauga earlier on Monday. She was resuscitated by paramedics, treated at two hospitals, and later succumbed to her injuries, police said on Tuesday.

Her father, 57-year-old Muhammad Parvez, has been charged with murder and was remanded back into custody after his first court appearance early on Tuesday.

“There was a 911 call placed by a man who indicated that he had just killed his daughter,” Jodi Dawson, a constable with Peel Regional Police, told Reuters. “Everything else is evidentiary in nature and the investigation is in its preliminary stages at this point.”

The victim’s brother, Waqas Parvez, 26, was arrested and charged with obstructing police.

32. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 December 2007

Congress to say Christmas is important. Sun and Moon declared good too

Update – The House passed this bill today. The vote, surprisingly, was 372-9, with 10 members also voting “Present,” meaning they took no position on the legislation, and 40 not voting. One of the “Present” votes was cast by Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.). More Democrats -195 – voted for the bill than Republicans, 177.

The nine members who voted against the bill – God bless them! – are Reps. Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.), Yvette Clarke (D-N.Y.), Diana DeGette (D-Colo.), Alcee Hastings (D-Fla.), Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), Jim McDermott (D-Wash.), Bobby Scott (D-Va.), Pete Stark (D-Calif.) and Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.).

33. marisacat - 11 December 2007

bayprairie and Madman out of Moderation… Sorry!!


bay as I have toured the old lunatic sites, I see they are pushing Oh-5 and VA-1 hard, but I have nto had time to follow links and check either race out…

.. so thanks for that comment… 8)

34. marisacat - 11 December 2007

I am sick to death of everyones’ religion.

Kinda like the presidential hoohoogaga-gag event.

35. moiv - 11 December 2007

bay @ 24

Well, those VA numbers are a real shocker, since the Dem candidate, Philip Forgit, used every abortion cliché in the Dem playbook trying to pander to … well, just about everybody.

But in the race to replace the late U.S. Rep. Jo Ann Davis, the issue is taking on an interesting role.

Democrat candidate Philip Forgit alluded to a whisper campaign about his views during a speech at the Democratic convention.

“I am personally pro-life,” Forgit said at a meeting with the Daily Press editorial board last week. But “I don’t want government bureaucrats making decisions when it comes to women’s bodies.”

Forgit is facing Republican Rob Wittman and independent Lucky Narain. The conservative bent of the 1st Congressional District means that Forgit faces an uphill battle, but his stance on abortion might blur the line a little.

Forgit has been open about his views since his first run for office in 2003, when he lost to Del. Melanie Rapp in a House race. He has also served on the board at a local branch of Bethany Christian Services, a religious organization that promotes adoption as an alternative to abortion.

Forgit says his motto is “safe, legal and rare,” and he would like more effort made toward increasing family planning, as well as finding and promoting different types of contraception to help people avoid unwanted pregnancies.

“I’ve never met a pro-choice person who was pro-abortion,” Forgit said. “I may be pro-life, but I’m not going up there to criminalize abortion, and people need to hear that.”

For the record, Wittman’s Web site says he is “pro-life and pro-family.”

Independent Lucky Narain is also anti-abortion. Narain said that he would like to see the landmark case of Roe v. Wade overturned and that if elected, he would support federal legislation outlawing abortion.

So what will Forgit’s position mean politically? Does it simply anger pro-life voters who want to overturn Roe v. Wade? Does it irk Democratic voters who question his commitment to keeping abortion legal?

Or is his stance pragmatic enough to appeal to both sides?

Apparently not . . . . since he finished with 37.30%.

Forgittaboudit. 😉

36. bayprairie - 11 December 2007

both districts clear losses. let the backpedaling begin

OH-05: Another results thread
by kos

Update: Given this is a open seat in a solidly red district the district seems to be performing as it should –except that — at 43.2% reporting — a six percent improvement over Democratic performance in 2004, not to mention that Republicans dumped money they didn’t have to pull this one out of the fire — at least 2-1 (we’ll know more in a couple of days). They won’t have that luxury in many districts in 2008.

Update II: Okay, I’m done here. My kids are begging for a little attention before they go down for the night. Republicans beat us in the expectations game, got enough of their people out, and basically kept things even from 2006. They spent a shitload of money for an “expectations” game victory in what might have otherwise been a routine and uneventful hold. So well played to them.

But the bottom line is that they held an R+10 seat. Funny that this is the sort of thing they’re left “celebrating” these days.

what would ned lamont say? speaking of which. what candidate has he endorsed? and which candidate will get the kiss o death from long john kerry?

37. bayprairie - 11 December 2007

kos’s 6% solution was early evening dreamery. the district broke exactly as it did last time around. there was no significant decrease in the LOSING margin for the donks whatsoever.

but with congress as worthless as they are, evidenced by the jesus resolution above. why even bother to vote for a congressional candidate? they all suck.

end of story.

38. marisacat - 11 December 2007

kos forgets, or declines to say, what a hard fought mess the 2006 runs were. And how many seats the Dems conceded to Republican leadership, outright.

They NEEDED the Foley sex scandal to eek out the wins…Republican corruption and the lie of running to End the War was not enough — and the run in Foley’s district in FL was instructive. The opponent who had to run with Foley’s name still on the ballot, nearly won.

39. marisacat - 11 December 2007

hmm wonder how the Clintons and HillaryLand workers feel when they read this in NY Observer.

NH painted as her firewall. hmmm.

The Clintons barely bothered with either Iowa or NH in the intervening years from 2004 out to now. The article tries to paint NH has some clover bed strewn with rose petals for Hillary.

40. bayprairie - 11 December 2007

today’s best smackdown of a second generation north dallas served up butterfly blagggghhhhh…

America DOES Torture….Now What?
by buhdydharma

:::shorter budhy::::

…George Bush this…

…George Bush that…

…George Bush this ‘n that…


Well, budhy, it depends on who you are…. (38+ / 0-)

If you’re a kossack (or dharmist) you fume and bitch and pray that someone comes along who will stand up to the evil motherfuckers who have stolen our government away from us — just so long as it’s not that craaaaaazy Dennis Kucinich, who, despite having been right almost all the time, isn’t “electable.”

and the boyos think we’re fooled by uncola operatives? laughable.

41. marisacat - 11 December 2007

from Schechter’s News Dissector:

BBC: NEW BANK IN TROUBLE: “France’s Societe Generale has become the latest bank to take a hit from the US mortgage debt crisis, bailing out a $4.3bn (£2.1bn) investment vehicle.

Investors have become wary of putting their money in structured investment vehicles (SIVs), in case it ups their exposure to risky sub-prime debt. Societe Generale will provide it with a credit line and take the assets onto its balance sheet, it said. A string of banks have reported losses linked to the US debt crisis.

42. marisacat - 12 December 2007

hmm btw, I saw today that Stern of SEIU let Lehane go, for his joining with the studios (a generic term, in my part) against the writers…

Macaray whose pieces on the WGA strike have been in Counterpunch for several weeks has a new one up… he mentions that apparently the DGA, Directors Guild has a contract coming up in June.

For the WGA membership, the coming weeks will be a challenge. On the one hand, they already realize that holding out for all the union can get in a 3-year contract is not only the wisest course of action, but, now that they’re on the bricks, it’s the only course of action. From this point on, all they can do is stay loyal and committed, and trust their negotiators to make the right decisions.

43. marisacat - 12 December 2007

geezloueez. Looking over PFFT… does Smithee know he and his whack-a-mole shovel is sorely needed, w/r/t DByron.

44. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

I think the actor’s contract is up this spring, too.

45. marisacat - 12 December 2007

love watching the piano wire tighten………..

“They all want to kill each other,” said a source aware of the closed-door meeting.

The backstabbing involves several high-level people in the campaign, including Penn, Mandy Grunwald, Ann Lewis and Howard Wolfson, sources said.

Penn maintained, “It’s a totally false story.”

Quite a bit about Bill in there too. yum.

IN The Hill, Grassley says Hill comes in 3rd in Iowa.

yum yum.

hopefully there is a way they can all lose.

46. ms_xeno - 12 December 2007

#43– Mcat, rumor on the street is that Smithee is crying in the corner of his trophy room because Supreme Commander Ficus doesn’t like him.

I have sent over the most expensive beer bong I could find, several volumes of wretched softcore anime discs and a case of fine brandy. (Now you know the reason behind my risky trip to the non-Green Zone portion of the Mall.) Let’s hope that Smithee will be all right soon.

47. ms_xeno - 12 December 2007

BTW, does anyone else find it funny (ha-ha AND weird) that while DP loyalists whoop it up over the likes of Foley and Mr.Foot-Signals-In-The-Can, most of their blog strongholds are littered everywhere with prison rape jokes and obstensibly het males who use (ahem) man-on-man action metaphors in order to prove their supremacy over one another. The party of the gay tolerant is rife with supposedly het men who consider sex between men little more than a means of humiliating each other. Some of them seem focussed on such metaphors to the exclusion of all others.

But remember !! The DP is a bastion of tolerance and wuv for queers, ‘cuz they got Barney Frank !!! They loves the out and proud crowd. Wheeeee !!!!

48. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

geezloueez. Looking over PFFT… does Smithee know he and his whack-a-mole shovel is sorely needed, w/r/t DByron.

Why don’t we just get a female Muslim to take care of both Byron and Moon?

49. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

The party of the gay tolerant is rife with supposedly het men who consider sex between men little more than a means of humiliating each other.

Kerry’s and Edward’s coordinated gay baiting of Mary Cheney gave it all away. Most of them also think the gay marriage issue lost them the election in 2004.

50. marisacat - 12 December 2007

48… LOL

whatever works… 😉

51. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

Did anybody see Chris Matthews and his guests talking about torture last night?

It was literally something out of the “Bad Enterprise” episode from Star Trek. They were discussing the specifics of what “would work”.

Had Hitler won the war TV might have looked like this.

52. marisacat - 12 December 2007

well you know how Tweety is, he periodically has to excite himself. I suppose his wife would leave otherwise.

I mean, what a loon

53. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

It wasn’t really Tweety’s usual mancrushing on big brawny generals or politicians. It was just a banal conversation between Tweety and a Democratic Party hack about the specifics of what kind of torture works and what kind of torture wasn’t. It was banal normality.

54. lucid - 12 December 2007

“I’ve never met a pro-choice person who was pro-abortion,”

Maybe I should introduce myself. It would broaden his perspective.

55. Diane - 12 December 2007

Hope all is well with you Marisa, got a real kick out of Kelsey Gramer re Guiliani, ahhh, all those NBC (and other networks) STARS, shoved down the throats of residents of the GOLDEN (showers) state by their GOLDEN CIVIC LEADERS.

Ever wonder why there are so many female polis in Cali, when the state is so very HOSTILE to all female? Or how hawk DiFi, as opposed to so very progressive Boxer were elected by the very same persons? Yes Cali, and its Grapes of Wrath.

Ha, occurred to me that if there really are Evil Aliens/Greys among us, they probally dislike Nicotine (except that from Cigars)….smoking like a fiend here, sans smoking tent…

Oh and, speaking of women, don’t ya just love Jane Harman and Sue Collins : http://www.petitiononline.com/19551959/petition.html

Hmmm, if the dear Dems were concerned with fair tax legislation they would have reinstituted Income Averaging (after all, business gets to carry forward and back bad year losses) and tax exempt status on Unemployment Income (keyword being “IF”)

waves to musing, nutria nibblers and opaque, still as a stone seeming water….

56. lucid - 12 December 2007

As for celebrity endorsements, I think if the teletubbies came out for Huckabee that might kill his momentum…

On a related note, I never realized that Adam Sandler was a lunatic fascist.

57. lucid - 12 December 2007

Speaking of which, did Huckabee lose all that weight working out on Chuck Norris’ ‘Total Gym’?

58. aemd - 12 December 2007
59. lucid - 12 December 2007

Do you speak l33t aemd?

60. marisacat - 12 December 2007

t00t w00t…


61. marisacat - 12 December 2007

OK, it’s going officially dirty now, and I smell Bill Clinton in this.

Bill Shaheen gave an interview insinuating that, due to his own openness, in the GE the Republicans would/could tar Obama with the whisper, smear: ”

Did Obama sell drugs?”.

And at least one site, Ben Smith at politico.com is using it as a headline without context.

Ben Smith.

TPM Election Central, 1 and 2… part 2 posted just about 45 mins ago.

According to TPM no word from HillaryCamp on this..

As I zoom around the past few days, boy, threads everywehre are poisonous about her. Peter Daou must have thought he could sleep thru this and not manufacture “blog hurricanes”.

What shits.

62. lucid - 12 December 2007

I can’t believe it, a drug dealing terrorist named Osama Hussein…

63. marisacat - 12 December 2007

TPM posted this about 30 mins ago (a few mins after 3PM) from Phil Singer. It took them hours.

Senator Clinton is out every day talking about the issues that matter to the American people. These comments were not authorized or condoned by the campaign in any way.

64. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

Tweety is still into the wateboarding. Rachel Maddow bullshitted her way around a question she didn’t want to answer and Tweety said “you are causing trouble today. I’m going to wateboard you.” And she didn’t call him on it.

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Maybe I should introduce myself. It would broaden his perspective.

That makes two of us. I am enthusiastically pro-medical procedure for informed adults.

After all, despite all of the misogynistic agitprop, that is EXACTLY what abortion, even third trimester abortion, is.

66. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

Add myself to the “pro abortion” not just “pro choice” column.

I do, however, think that religion should be “safe, legal and rare”.

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Maddow is being soft while she angles to replace Tucker. Hopefully it won’t be permanent.

Oh, and speaking of torture and the CIA and recent operatives retired CIA agents:

Update: To elaborate, I suspect but don’t know that if a recent former CIA op as he was appears on network TV news in a concerted fashion — ABC, NBC, also Post, etc. — with a message that a) he didn’t torture b) good we’re having this discussion c) it worked this one time d) we shouldn’t do it anymore but was effective at time and stopped a gazillion attacks e) it was all authorized up and down the line, including by high U.S. officials (how would he know that?) then it would seem to me highly plausible his media appearances are not only tolerated by CIA HQ but he’s some sort of surrogate being put forward to some degree with an approved message. And I believe he represents Hayden. No coincidence he appeared the night before and day Hayden goes to testify at SSCI and tomorrow before HPSCI. (Such an impression has been influenced by the correspondent cited here.)

She offers an update that the Company is “upset” with his appearances.

Update 2: Apparently not! People at Agency upset about him going on TV, a source says. “No way” that he’s any sort of approved surrogate. Kiriakou was, according to this souce, “a ground branch person, the paramilitary staff, he’s … a former military guy who comes in with military skills to do training of foreign military.” Why was he used to interrogate Zubaydah? “Because he was available.” Most controversial at the Agency are Kiriakou’s statements about waterboarding. ‘ … The American public has already decided they call this torture. Doesn’t matter how many times you say it doesn’t have any lasting effects, it just scares people.’ Agency apparently very angry about Kiriakou’s appearances on TV and threatening to trace him down. Isn’t there anyone politically sophisticated enough at the top layers of the Agency to get that this guy’s message may be ultimately useful to Hayden, I asked? There are, this source says, but they don’t ever touch the parts of the process that work to counter the type of comments Kiriakou making. “He seems like a decent kid,” he says. But he worries he’s “going to get burned.”

Oh sure, right, in environment where real dissenters have had their lives made a living hell, this guy is completely on the up-and-up and acting on his own.

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

oops … can you fix the strike closing tag after “operative”?


69. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

Maddow is being soft while she angles to replace Tucker. Hopefully it won’t be permanent.

Of course if some right wing pundit had sat there and said nothing while Tweety joked about waterboarding him/her, Media Matters would be in Phase III of the Jihad by now.

70. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

And it’s not that Rachel Maddow’s a horrible talk show host. She’s not. That’s the point. If a “progressive” can sit through a torture joke, it shows how mainstream it’s become.

Imagine if Tweety had made an anti-semitic or anti-gay remark. She would have jumped all over him.

And on another note, does Jesus ever drop by his brother’s shop to learn the basics of torture?

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Reconquista! Help! America is Becoming Mexicanized!

Some people like to call this feared Mexicanized America a “reconquista,” using a scary Spanish word that goes nicely with the scary made-up word, “illegals”. I think they’re referring to the fact that California, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado and Texas all used to belong to Mexico, back when women wore whale-bone corsets and men had handlebar moustaches they displayed in places other than the hippie coffee shop by the university.

Nevermind that the word reconquista, for those of us who actually speak the “scary” Spanish language and, scarier still, read history books now and then, refers to the time when the Christians recaptured Spain and Portugal from the Muslim Moors. That reconquista took more than 700 years – which kind of defeats the comparison for immediate fear purposes, but, whatever. And nevermind the fact that many of those same Americans who fear a Mexican “reconquista” here would probably – for their hatred of Muslims – have happily peed their 8th-century man-robes for joy during the Christian reconquista of Iberia. But, like, whatever.

Thank God these kinds of sloppy, catchy, cable-newsy Dark Ages comparisons do not require logic. Logic is deadly in matters of our shared humanity on planet earth, as it does not generally lead to much, other than understanding and compassion and all that other Biblical poppycock. We don’t need that right now. We’re being Mexicanized. We need fear. We need the Dark Ages back.

And that’s just the warm-up. She says that we ARE becoming more like Mexico, though not in the way Lou Dobbs likes to whine:

45 million Mexicans live in extreme poverty in Mexico. According to Duke University professor David Brady, at least 46 million Americans now live in extreme poverty. We are technically the richest country in the world, yet we have the widest gap between rich and poor of any industrialized nation, and by far the most poor people. Our poverty rate is double that of Canada and the UK and triple that of the rest of Europe. It’s like the caller on the Randi Rhodes show said, “You have seven unemployed guys in a bar, Bill Gates walks in, and on average, everyone’s a billionaire.”

Yep. It’s a fact. When it comes to income distribution and poverty, we’re being Mexicanized. But it’s not because of the Mexicans. It’s because of the neocons, their disgusting monopolies, corporate greed and political corruption.

Then there’s infant mortality. Under Bush, we saw the first rise in infant mortality in the United States since we began keeping score. A recent CNN story said: “American babies are three times more likely to die in their first month as children born in Japan, and newborn mortality is 2.5 times higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway, Save the Children researchers found.

Only Latvia, with six deaths per 1,000 live births, has a higher death rate for newborns than the United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.”

In Mexico, 19 of every 1000 babies born die in the first 24 hours. We’re not there yet, but if we keep accelerating at the pace set under W., we’ll get there soon enough – say, in twenty years. Yep. Our babies are being Mexicanized – but it’s not because they’re anchor babies to a Mexican mama. It’s because their president in George W. Bush, who thinks kids don’t deserve health care and vetoed a measure to give it to them, again and again.

72. aemd - 12 December 2007

Too funny ’bout Bill Shaheen. Looks like between the latest CNN/WMUR poll, Oprah and the Shea-Porter’s endorsement of Obama some people are gittin’ worried. The big NH power broker’s wife is running for US Senate, in 08, don’t ya know. 😉

“Do you speak l33t aemd?”

Heavens no. Just find it clever as hell.

73. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007
74. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Circus Maximus

What we constantly hear from the corporate media, though it is never stated quite so bluntly, is that those with the money become the kings. The American political campaign system is now a big-money bonanza for media corporations. These corporations prop up candidates with the most money knowing full well that that money will come straight back to them in the form of campaign advertising. The media are now simply advertisers for the biggest political spenders, which is perhaps the reason why the campaign cycle is now virtually continuous. It is a positive feedback loop, reinforcing in the minds of the public that the only viable candidates are the ones with the money, the polls reflect this, more money pours in for those “viable candidates,” which in turn cycles right back to the media money machine.

Which is why I am constantly amazed that the so-called “progressive” blogs have chosen to endorse corporate-backed candidates like Hillary Clinton.

Though Dennis Kucinich espouses ideals resonant with most liberal voters, he is as marginalized by progressives as much as the mainstream media as “unelectable,” though no one ever seems to understand or explain exactly what that means. Is it his ears?

By all appearances, blogs such as dKos, MyDD, etc, have now simply become another arm of the Democratic party and their backing of the major, big-money candidates simply because they are deemed “electable” entirely betrays the original purpose of their fora.

There is no “appearances” about it. THEY ARE arms of the party.

The purposefully constrained political party system has, indeed, forced liberals into only one corner. Liberals certainly will not vote for Republicans today. Bush has fairly destroyed any vestige of that odd creature once known as the “Reagan Democrat” and the “major” Republican candidates seem interested in being more Bush than Bush. No, progressives have been forced into seeing the Democratic Party as their only choice and, as the performance of Democratic-led House and Senate have amply demonstrated after over a year in the majority, that choice is a damn poor one.

IT IS NOT NOT THE ONLY CHOICE. Opt out. withhold your vote.

What does this tell us about the possibility of Democrats repealing the military misadventures or providing universal health care that is not simply a tax-payer sop to the “health care” industry? Does Kos believe that Clinton is, perhaps, a progressive sleeper agent, that once having soaked up those corporate dollars, she will spring into progressive action, stop the war, withdraw the troops, reinstate habeas corpus, halt the spying, hold the telecoms accountable, and send up those venal HMO corporations?

It was obvious after the 2004 election that Daily Kos creator, Markos “kos” Zuniga was more afraid of the establishment than he would have people believe when he unilaterally declared that reports of election fraud would be stricken from his site. Despite years of evidence now gathered, despite the volumes published, despite expert opinion and analysis, kos’ position has not wavered on this, despite daily reports of Republican-led election shenanigans across the country, with only the latest (and most benign) being the Romney campaign’s corruption of a Florida GOP straw poll.

All of this is painfully obvious to those of us here, anyway:

In this regard, he is acting like the Democratic party, too afraid to bear mention that some things have been terribly amiss in recent American elections. If the U.S. Attorney purge scandal, uncovered and now largely forgotten, should have demonstrated one thing to the Democrats, it is that the Republicans, as led by Rove, have utterly hijacked the apparatus of government in service of the GOP. Today, a Democrat sits in prison because of these activities, and yet, from the Democrats, not a word. And neither is there one from those so-called progressives like kos.

The ONLY option left next year is to be willing to let the Donklephants lose. Painfull, but there it is.

75. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Wow, I can’t type tags tonight to save my life.

Sorry again.

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007
77. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Joss Whedon sums up what’s at stake in the writer’s strike

IGN TV: What do you think it will take to get things to change and to come to an agreement?

Whedon: We have to break them. These are multi-billionaires who could give a rat’s ass about any of the issues they’re actually talking about except for one – If they can break this union, then they can break them all. If they can do that, then they can control everything. They already, thanks to the [repeal of] Fin-syn laws and all of the sort of vertical integration, control almost everything. They’re very close. They have basically one last thing to figure out how to own and rule in and we’re it. And it’s simply not going to happen. The only way we can break them is just by stopping. By being out here instead of in there. And we’ll do it. We’ll do it for a year. We’ll do it forever. We’ll do it until somebody else steps up and says “Hey, we’ll run a business a different way.” We’ll work for those people instead. What you’re going to find in Hollywood is maybe a lot fewer millionaires, but a lot more working people with steady jobs, because these guys can not crush us. It will not happen.

We’ll see, but what he says stands for all of us, in the economic arena and in politics. The only way out in the inbalanced system we have now is to opt out, to say no, to withhold your participation/vote/money etc.

78. Miss Devore - 12 December 2007

spelunkers….(from CNN)

“Deal could mean another $70,000,000,000 for war
Democratic lawmakers and staffers privately say they’re closing in on a broad budget deal that would give President Bush as much as $70 billion in new war funding. The arrangement would lack a Democratic provision for most U.S. troops to leave Iraq by December 2008. “

79. marisacat - 12 December 2007

Madman… sorry for the delay! Just got to your tags………..


80. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

no prob … if I could type everything would be great from the get-go.

81. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

The ONLY option left next year is to be willing to let the Donklephants lose. Painfull, but there it is.

Looking at the Republican field, only a Bloomberg third party run is going to make the Democrats lose.

The corporate dems are going to get away with it, get the White House at the cost of impeachment.

Of course the alternative is even worse (Huckabee or Romney).

I guess the only silver lining is that progressive activists after 2009 will be running against the Democrats, or not. I don’t know. But it’s going to be Tony Blair all over again.

82. AlanSmithee - 12 December 2007

#43. marisacat

Is that turdball back again? By the Power of Greyskull! That really chaps my ass. ‘Scuse me, good people. I smell something rancid over at PFF…

83. ms_xeno - 12 December 2007

[snerk] Speaking of healthcare, our rates are going up seventy dollars a month next month. I think Pope Rat is angry with us for not procreating, and this is His punishment. Or what-the-fuck-ever.

I told mr_xeno to make copies of the price-hike notice and send it in to all the candidates in those oh-so-ubiquitous donation envelopes. I mean, fuck. Let them go hit up the lobbyists since that’s where our fucking money is ending up anyway. Worthless Gospel-swilling shitheels. May I live long enough to see their corpses swinging from a row of fucking lamp posts. >:

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Looking at the Republican field, only a Bloomberg third party run is going to make the Democrats lose.

People said the same thing about Kerry.

85. ms_xeno - 12 December 2007

P.S. — Go, Smithee !!!

(I’ll save you some homemade lemon cake from yesterday.) 8)

86. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

People said the same thing about Kerry.

And they said it about Gore. But the Bush machine/Republican machine was an awesomely powerful organization in 2000 and 2004. It had everything behind it. It had the media. It had the big money. Now the Republican party’s self-destructed and Hillary’s going to face a hick preacher from Arkansas.

2008 is looking like 1996 to me.

87. marisacat - 12 December 2007

hey hey Smitheee… LOL

I saw some of your “replies” to him from this am…

What a hoot!

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

It’s not just about the Rep machine, or about voter suppression, or about the MSM … it’s about the ugly heart of darkness in white ‘Merica.

Our gov’t reflects a sizable minority of the ‘merican population, and the most highly motivated, hated portion of that population.

The ONLY way people will wake up if for leftists to walk away. En masse. Even then, it will be a struggle of YEARS.

89. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

it’s about the ugly heart of darkness in white ‘Merica

This is true but both parties are in a bind here. If you come down too hard on immigrants, you alienate Latinos. If you don’t, you alienate whites.

Our gov’t reflects a sizable minority of the ‘merican population, and the most highly motivated, hated portion of that population.

From what I’ve been reading, the issue of Iraq is still the most important one in the country as a whole but Iowa and South Carolina are skewing it towards immigration.

The ONLY way people will wake up if for leftists to walk away.

All three of us. I agree. I’m not voting for either major party. Personally, it would be tempting to vote for Bloomberg on a third party ticket to fuck over the Dems and Republicans, but I wouldn’t be able to get past those 2000 pre-emptive arrests during the RNC.

90. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

I wouldn’t be able to get past those 2000 pre-emptive arrests during the RNC.

Just vote on every other line where you can. Register and vote, just abandon the national party.

91. Miss Devore - 12 December 2007

Smithee salts the slug at pff…..

92. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

Just vote on every other line where you can. Register and vote, just abandon the national party.

I’m not exactly wild about the local politicians either. The Dems will probably take my congressional district next year.

A Kos dream scenario. Ned Lamont/Darcy Burnerland now open to a bland centrist Dem that hasn’t had a Dem in power since a few years after I was born.


This north-central New Jersey district contains multitudes. It has suburban dwellers who commute to and from New York City but also exurban areas and even a few rural patches. The district is affluent with the second highest household median income of any seat in the state. (New Jersey’s 11th District has the highest.)lectoral Results: The seat has been in Republican hands for more than three decades.

93. Miss Devore - 12 December 2007

irony award of the ages (from the daily mail):

“Pope Benedict XVI has launched a surprise attack on climate change prophets of doom, warning them that any solutions to global warming must be based on firm evidence and not on dubious ideology.

The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.

The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement. ”

the Pope cries for science! hang on to your bladder!

94. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

And the state Democratic machine is all lined up behind Hillary.

The Congressional district one over from mine is a majority minority district with a Conyers style black progressive who’s been running unopposed in the general election for decades now.

So what’s the better arena for a Green/Progressive run.

1.) Rich white bland centrist Republican/Dem
2.) Majority minority black progressive Conyers Dem

Gerrymandering does its work well. NEITHER district is good territory for any kind of leftist insurgency since they’ve put the whites and blacks in seperate political washrooms.

Very few places in the country are San Francisco and even San Francisco really isn’t San Francisco.

But I’ll probably donate something to Cindy Sheehan.

95. Madman in the Marketplace - 12 December 2007

Pelosi buys $16K worth of flowers

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has spent $16,000 on flowers since taking office, one reason why she spent 63 percent more in her high-profile inaugural year than her low-key predecessor did last year.

Pelosi (D-Calif.) spent a little more than $3 million in the first nine months of 2007, records show, compared to the $1.8 million Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) spent during the same period in 2006.

Republicans are spending more as well. House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) has increased spending 23 percent above what Pelosi spent when she held the same job. That would be 16 percent if some of Hastert’s closing-out costs were deducted.

The spending patterns indicate Pelosi is seeking to restore the Speaker’s role as a counterweight to the president and reclaim some of the responsibilities Hastert had ceded to his aggressive majority leader, Tom DeLay (R-Texas). Because of their different roles, Pelosi aides say it is unfair to simply compare Pelosi’s spending to Hastert’s.

“When Speaker Pelosi took the gavel, it was an historic moment. In the days since, the Speaker has hosted leaders from across the country and around the world — opening the People’s House to the people and discussing the work of the 110th Congress,” Pelosi spokesman Nadeam Elshami said in response to e-mailed questions. “There are major new costs associated with setting up the new office of the new Speaker of the House.”

Republicans say Pelosi’s office spending undercuts her message that Democrats are restoring fiscal responsibility to the halls of Congress.

“They could have saved the taxpayer $16,000 by sending out an intern to pick flowers from the Capitol lawn, but I guess that would have detracted from the $4 million worth of pork they planted as part of the ‘greening’ project,” said Brian Kennedy, spokesman for Boehner.

96. marisacat - 12 December 2007

btw, Kucinich is out of the debate tomorrow… Think iirc they used an excuse that his Iowa camp. manager (or whatever the title is) is not temporarily resident in Iowa but still operating from Dubuque.

97. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

When you think about it, the time for a break to a third party was 1988 under Jesse Jackson, not 2000 under Nader.

Had Jesse made the break in 1988, we might have had a functioning third party. 1988 was before all of the horrific roadblocks were set up (which were in response to Perot). It was when the League for Women voters still controlled the debates.

I like what Sheehan is doing but my pessimistic side says she’s not going to mount a credible campaign. This isn’t really about her personally. It’s about the fact that there are no experienced political hands to mentor her in her run and help her raise funds and organize.

The Democrats who should be on her side (Kucinich, Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters, McDermott) are all, well, Democrats.

98. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

btw, Kucinich is out of the debate tomorrow

So Alan Keyes is in. Kucinich is out.

Too fucking pathetic.

99. melvin - 12 December 2007

93– Similar to another old man. Frederick of Hollywood tonight calling the NIE on Iran “some bureaucrat’s opinion” and demanding more intelligence (the kind that backs my preformed opinion, in other words). Pretty much calling American intelligence worthless.

Like the IPCC I guess. What do a few thousand of the most prominent climatologists, biologists, and earth science folks know about it anyway? We need some flat earth experts.

100. marisacat - 12 December 2007

oh seems like it might be time for the ol’ condom on the nose cartoon:

The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.

… Miss D

Just this am it was reported that NOW the projection for loss of late summer ice floes in the arctic is 2012. Previously it was, iirc what they said, 2030.

Guess polar warming is not an issue as the Pontiff summers, eternally, at Castel Gandolfo.

101. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

You think Moon’s going to do a diary on this?


A Muslim saved a group of Jews being attacked on a New York subway in an apparent hate crime. Hassan Askari, a student at Berkeley College in Manhattan, came to the aid of Walter Adler when he and three friends were attacked on the Q train running between Manhattan and Brooklyn on the night of Dec. 7, according to The Associated Press. Ten men and women, aged 19 and 20, verbally and physically assaulted Adler and his friends after they wished the assailants “Happy Chanukah” in response to their “Merry Christmas” wish. Askari, 20, tried to fight off the attackers, which gave Adler time to pull an emergency brake on the Brooklyn-bound train. The assailants were arrested at the next stop.

102. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007
103. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

Well not really Russians, just 10 people (all of whom have East European names) who are also white gangsta wannabees.

104. marisacat - 12 December 2007

moon is such a transparent astroturfer [imo], to muddy the waters and drive authentic people away. A few times he has “slipped”, and in the same thread gyrated between that slurry messy “yer” + scat and whatever else with comments, a few lines farther down, that are cogent and use multisyllabic words.

So sick of the games. But you know, a pillar of certain sites.

105. Hair Club for Men - 12 December 2007

moon is such a transparent astroturfer [imo], to muddy the waters and drive authentic people away

And Byron, I’m assuming, would just be an authentic asshole.

106. marisacat - 12 December 2007

Byron is sick. End of story.

107. ms_xeno - 12 December 2007

Mr. Limpy speaks! (5.00 / 2)
What happened, Davey-wavey? Did your porn pile tip over and puncture your blowup girlfriend? Can’t find any women to cyberstalk?

A very Merry Xmas to us all…

108. melvin - 12 December 2007

11 For you Miss D, with a ht to David Brin, who posted this link at dkos.

109. marisacat - 13 December 2007

hmmm post: LINK

110. Intermittent Bystander - 14 December 2007

Waves to Diane – NOLA exorcist! boxing hare! – and melvin, too. (Was thinking of your doggie throughout that Kahlo post. Also this.)

Another jasmine garland, another Thai.)

So yep, for those who give the slightest shit, thanks again. At the risk of joining the Ardumbos and Dullaware Damneds and whitetrashpoets of the blogosphere, see 55 and 56 here.

111. Intermittent Bystander - 14 December 2007

Darn! This was supposed to be the boxing link above.

112. Intermittent Bystander - 14 December 2007

Thig crioch air an t-saoghal ach mairidh ceol agus gaol.
The world will come to an end, but music and love will endure.

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