jump to navigation

storm :: port :: thread 14 December 2007

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

   storm in Scanectady NY
   Paul Buckowski/Albany Times Union, via Associated Press

Neil Seyboth and his dog, Jack, took a walk in Schenectady, N.Y., on Sunday as a storm brought snow and rain along the East Coast [April 2007]

… just a thread………..




1. marisacat - 15 December 2007

Lenin’s Tomb has a report up from the Bali conference. Oodles of links embedded…

here is just one graf, a ways down in the post:

Green Revolution in the Blue-Chips

The Virgin Tycoon was given personal tuition on the matter of climate change by none other than Al Gore, the former Vice President of the United States and one-time shareholder in Occidental.

Branson’s proposed solution is technology rather than social or economic change. To lead the way toward what he has called “Gaia Capitalism”, he offered a $25 million reward to anyone who devised a device capable of absorbing and storing CO2 (there are billions of such devices already on the planet, even if the supply is diminishing, which is why one of the proposed solutions is a “synthetic tree”).

Soon, Virgin was joined by Barclaycard, BSkyB, even the CBI.

A profusion of institutions now seeks capital-friendly solutions to climate change, based on technology.

However, whatever technological solutions make it to production will use an enormous amount of energy in their production, which alone may make them unviable according to MIT engineer Howard Herzog. The chances of a suitable technology being developed is minimal.

Joy to the World…

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 December 2007

The US folded and agreed to Bali plan;

The United States has joined a global consensus that deep cuts must be made in greenhouse gas emissions after a historic agreement was reached to negotiate a new climate change treaty within the next two years.

South Africa then made an emotional appeal for the Americans to reconsider their statement – and was supported by delegation after delegation from the developing world while Miss Dobriansky and James Connaughton, President Bush’s climate change adviser, talked increasingly animatedly off-microphone.

The killer blow came from the Harvard-educated representative of Papua New Guinea, Kevin Conrad, who used Mr Connaughton’s diplomatic gaffe of earlier in the week to humiliate the Americans.

Mr Connaughton had said: “We will lead. We will continue to lead but leadership also requires others to fall in line and follow.”

Mr Conrad said, to applause: “If you are not willing to lead, then get out of the way.”

Miss Dobriansky finally pressed her button to speak again and said: “We will go forward and join the consensus.”

After cheers and diplomatic congratulations, the president of the conference assessed that “we are very, very close”, then banged his gavel down on India’s proposal to mark that a consensus had been achieved.

Mr de Boer said later that he saw the mood in the conference “suddenly explode” after inspirational speeches by the Indonesian president, who has invested a large amount of political capital in the Bali conference, and the UN secretary general.

He added: “Almost by electrolysis that refocused the delegates with a sense of urgency. It enabled people to see minor points as minor problems.”

The disagreement that bedevilled the past two weeks between the United States and the EU was resolved in the course of Friday night with a new draft road map which said that “deep cuts” in greenhouse gas emissions will be required after 2012.

For what little it will end up being worth.

3. Miss Devore - 15 December 2007

Is that guy walking his dog with the leash around his ankle, or does it just look that way?

4. marisacat - 15 December 2007

Lenin’s Tomb seemed dismissive of the “u turn”:

“Extraordinary Scenes”

An ‘u-turn’ by the United States, apparently based on the watering down of already inadequate targets, has produced “extraordinary scenes” of high emotion at the Bali conference. Little is to change, in fact. One concrete proposal accepted is for a more entrenched global carbon market, which tripled in value last year to reach $30bn. The proposals are backed by pro-market groups such as the Global Canopy Programme, as well as by oil and gas corporations. According to Gordon Brown, it is “the best way to protect the endangered environment while spurring economic growth”. ::snip::

5. wu ming - 15 December 2007

a new bubble to exploit, no doubt, once the carbon emissions regulators are duly stocked with corporate moles.

6. marisacat - 15 December 2007

oh this is a hoot… for those with long and short memories.

Operative post from Jerome A (as the Clintons move into the 4th and 5th day that “drug dealer” gets spun)… and look at the infestation of operatives in the thread.

From Big Tentola to “truthteller2007” (anti hegemonic, plus who ever else s/he is) AND GA6thDem,… whom some may remember from the 2003/4 primaries.

LOL FrancislHolland would be there, but they banned him at Mydd. LOL

Operatives! Same as vampyres, always coming back to life.

And I am barely into the thread.

7. aemd - 15 December 2007

Ms Cat #6

Too Funny. While that old stock tout wishes “the Obama campaign would have just ignored it”, the Obama campaign has grabbed the ball and they ain’t lettin’ go. LOL. Jerome can wave that finger till the cows come home, the Obama team would be fools to let this drop. The Shaheen remarks are an answer to their prayers (and they are a praying bunch, ain’t they.. 😉 ) Amen and all that stuff, they got a save.

WooHoo, break out the popcorn and the beer. This race is, finally, gettin’ fun. 😎

8. ms_xeno - 15 December 2007

Still snickering at last night’s thread, mostly because of Taibbi. It’s a shame for him that so many of his followers in PandaKostriosland agree with him about the horrors of leaving the house without a suit and tie. It’s hard to figure out just which subcultures the ad-vultures who pay his salary are going to “ironically” rip off in the future for a fast buck if we’re all just standing around in power suits and conservative haircuts waiting and hoping for five minutes of Oblahblah’s time. Tsk. You call that a subculture ? What a schmuck. Lock him in a room for ten minutes with Supreme Commander Ficus and let’s see which carp-spewing tin soldier walks out alive.

IB, I think that cat was ripping off Satie. Or possibly Schoenberg. Damn kids today.

9. ms_xeno - 15 December 2007

Meanwhile, the glorious Nara Leao (1942-1989) sings. With translations, yet, for those of us who don’t know fuck-all about language. 😀

10. Hair Club for Men - 15 December 2007

. It’s a shame for him that so many of his followers in PandaKostriosland agree with him about the horrors of leaving the house without a suit and tie.

There’s nothing wrong with hating America and being a dirty fucking hippie as long as you dress well and vote for Democrats.

If you have to put Chevron banners on your website, well, all I’ll say is “grow up”. We leftists have been uncomfortable with money and success for too long. Let’s stop being “purists” and learn how to “operate” in the “real world” of politics. We are the reality based community after all.

But for God’s sake don’t go to protests where some nasty college kid has a Che shirt or a Free Mumia sign. That would be wrong.

11. ms_xeno - 15 December 2007

Oh, shut the fuck up, Hairy. I can’t concentrate. I’m trying to decide whether to wear the taupe pantyhose to the next march, or the beige instead. I probably need to look up which would be better at repelling police truncheons.

12. Hair Club for Men - 15 December 2007

I probably need to look up which would be better at repelling police truncheons.

Make sure you get interviewed by someone who looks hot and not that hippie women from Democracy Now. Remember, it’s not ony important to look good while you’re at the protest, but that everybody around you looks good. Do you really want to put yourself in a position where you might not be taken seriously in the future.

On second thought, just skip the protest altogether until they’re better organized. They’re counterproductive. Let’s concentrate on getting the White House back in 2008 instead. My “Act Blue” button in on the upper right hand corner of my site. That 100 bucks you were going to pay for gas and tolls to DC would be better spent on keeping a progressive Democratic website viable.

13. Hair Club for Men - 15 December 2007

Remember, the media might not take you seriously.

Note how Ms. Kosinski looks good, even in a flood, not like some dirty fucking hippie.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 December 2007

Ohio Secretary of State confirms 2004 election could have been stolen

Ohio’s Secretary of State announced this morning that a $1.9 million official study shows that “critical security failures” are embedded throughout the voting systems in the state that decided the 2004 election. Those failures, she says, “could impact the integrity of elections in the Buckeye State.” They have rendered Ohio’s vote counts “vulnerable” to manipulation and theft by “fairly simple techniques.”

Indeed, she says, “the tools needed to compromise an accurate vote count could be as simple as tampering with the paper audit trail connector or using a magnet and a personal digital assistant.”

In other words, Ohio’s top election official has finally confirmed that the 2004 election could have been easily stolen.

Brunner’s stunning findings apply to electronic voting machines used in 58 of Ohio’s 88 counties, in addition to scanning devices and central tabulators used on paper ballots in much of the rest of the state.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 December 2007
16. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 December 2007
17. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 December 2007
18. ms_xeno - 15 December 2007

#16. If the dead kid’s surname were O’Malley, I wonder if all those peabrained wannabe’ Stormfront fuckwits would be crowing about how wonderful it is now that he’s dead ?

Remind me never to set so much as my big toe anywhere in Arizona. Fucking assholes. I wish I could gift the lot of them with a stocking full of poverty and leukemia. >:

19. Miss Devore - 15 December 2007

speaking of Arizona–anyone ever hear from Tuston?

20. marisacat - 15 December 2007

Des Moines Register endorsed Clinton. Boston Globe endorsed Obama.


21. outofwater - 15 December 2007

Was I the last person on the planet who knew about Mormon garments? Here, I thought they were a normal sort. Then to learn about the planet Krypton thing, and all the rest.

Well, it’s upsetting.

22. marisacat - 15 December 2007

TPM Election Central saved me hunting up the video link at Charlie ROse site. The Bill C appearnace Friday night.

It was quite the obsessesional, unfocused, garrulous – and, I found it to be, embarrassing performance… He is obsessed with Obama. It takes up most of the second half of the program.

I don’t know about elsewhere but in SF CR repeats the following day at noon, for Friday night shows, Monday Noon.

23. marisacat - 15 December 2007

oops addendum to comment # 20

they both also endorsed McCain.

24. ms_xeno - 15 December 2007

Trust The Great Triangulator to be unfocused and obsessed at the same time.

25. marisacat - 15 December 2007

hmmm Scruggs via SMBIVA makes the point beautifully, some lovely writing too. And he has not forgotten David Obey being nasty to Mrs Richards (embedded links in the posting):

Lesser evilism, buying time and triangulations have reached their natural conclusion: enthusiastically cooperative evil. That’s the “real reason”. The moral Ponzi Schemes have collapsed. The people doing those things think they’re being reasonable and realistic. They’re annoyed by the idiot liberal complaints they receive. A million concerted question campaigns aren’t going to change that. It’s time to start saying no.

26. marisacat - 15 December 2007


During the Charlie Rose interview, Mr. Clinton looked agitated at times as he talked about recent campaign problems faced by his wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, and her tough race against Mr. Obama and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina in Iowa, which holds the first nominating contest on Jan. 3.

At one point, Mr. Rose said that, in his control room, aides to Mr. Clinton were trying to persuade the show’s producers to end the interview.

27. bayprairie - 15 December 2007

bill clinton is a pumphead. it’s pretty well documented anecdotally. lots of guys that get bypasses can’t control a bad temper any longer. no big surprise his aides were trying to censor.

someone who was good at interviews could light him up intentionally.

but then this is the united states post-era.

as if.

28. marisacat - 15 December 2007

hmm the first I saw it was between surgeries… before the really rather massive scrrring was discovered. I thought then it might be pain meds… he just ran at the mouth, same unfocussed eyes, mouth that just hung open for flies… — a reporter and mic and camera got him at the SuperBowl that year… LOL he was there alone. Yeah right, just not with Hillary…

And then it happened at Davos that same year… the Antenne 2 news woman running the panel he was on, noticed and since it was very visible, just garrulous running off, unable to maintain focus or topic… she sort of managed his bried opportunites to reply.

But yeah… part of Bill’s problem, but nto all of it, is post surgeries. Like Cheney, let’s not forget.

it is also woeful, near criminal self absorption. I notice Drugde has up the tape of BIll and his “How dare you” to protesters of some weeks if not months ago… same thing. Fucker.

Couple damned nasty bullshitters they are.

And I don’t think any are much better, to be frank. They just are the most rotten.

What a country.

29. marisacat - 15 December 2007

oh sending a very special extra large pink starched hankie to the Boyz, to cry into.

Atrios observes that perhaps we did lose the Cold War; the Senate is giving up our civil liberties with this retroactive immunity capitulation, and it’s no longer clear what the victory over an autocratic centralized bureaucratic monstrosity meant when we centralize and wed our governance institutions to private companies that spy on us.

It’s not over yet, of course. [oh stuff it boyo — Mcat]

I was at a roundtable with Speaker Pelosi a few weeks ago, and the first thing she said was how proud she was that the House had passed a FISA update without retroactive immunity in there. It looks like Reid [what? Is Pelosi his fucking mother, that he needs to protect her?? It is ALL OF THEM — Mcat] has screwed the Constitution in the Senate, and will pass the worst bill possible on Monday.

My my… but Stoller does manage to sound sad. The last graf, the solution… is more progressive Dems in power.

And I see operative GregNYC in the thread. A convocation of the online schlubs..

30. wu ming - 15 December 2007

the irony is that bill inadvertently nailed the whole field while trying to sum obama up.

they’re all simulacra of what change might look like, devoid of actual substantive vision or ability to push it through.

every damn one of them.

31. melvin - 16 December 2007

Speaking of Bali

Why are Americans so stupid?

Maybe because they read shit like this

A representative from tiny Papua New Guineaone of many small island states most immediately threatened by climate change — recalled the old Lee Iacocca line about leading, following or getting out of the way. \”If the U.S. will not lead, get out of the way,\” he said, to gallery cheers. \”Please get out of the way.\”

PNG is in fact larger than California. It has islands, yes, but it is hardly a tiny island state. But how would Bryan Walsh, paid to cover this conference, know such things?

(This post will probably be all screwed up because I am trapped in the damned proxy server somehow.)

32. marisacat - 16 December 2007

London TImes Loves obama… and reading the entire thing to the end, they forget, he is part of the Democratic party. Very much a part of it. LOL But he is the New Face Of America.

Lordy. Speaking of which, they include a couple grafs from a speech of his I missed, in CT in June:

“It was because of these new-found understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice and not an epiphany. The questions I had didn’t magically disappear. The sceptical bent of my mind didn’t suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.”

oops I was so pissed at the religiousity [the piece says his jesusmindspin is better than Hillary’s] that I checked to see who wrote this damned slobber, It was a Sully piece.

I had thought tht Times lost their mind. whew! Poor Sully just really and truly fell in love. So boring.


Elsewhere they call Huckabee the ‘hick that can beat Hillary’ and call his family, the ‘machinegun Huckabees’.

33. marisacat - 16 December 2007

hmm the other thing, looking over the UK press… Sunday round up pieces on the primaries…

NOBODY is saying a word publicly, that I have caught, about 4Q money …


34. marisacat - 16 December 2007

RCP has the full transcript and an 8 minute video cut of the Clinton appearance on CRose.

I bet they drooled as they assembled this page.

35. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Why you’ll never get a truly good bargain on Ebay.

The “market” has an amazing way of maintaining its equilibrium. If there’s money to be made, some kind of mechanism will be set up to maintain the law of supply and demand. Want to swoop down on some “obsolete” camera gear, a nice cheap AIS lens that someone is selling for his/her father/mother or from an estate after some wealthy dilettante dies?

Forget about it.

A couple of days ago I was tracking what would have been a remarkable bargain, a 28mm/2.0 AIS that had somehow been poorly categorized. The photos were there and it was in nice condition. The serial number checked out. The seller had good feedback but not a lot in terms of photo gear. And it was lingering under 100 dollars. There was no reserve and no Buy it Now price.

So I put a bid down that was 25 dollars over the high bid and watched. I was getting excited. I was about to get a nice 28mm 2.0/AIS for 75 bucks. My heart started to pound as the time ticked down. 5 minutes. 1 minute. 30 second. Oh yes, I thought, it was mine.

A reseller swooped down when there was 3, yes three seconds left and got the lens for 150 dollars. The next hour it was back up on Ebay with a Buy it Now price of 350 dollars and a reserve. Remember, this was the same lens (I checked the serial number) and the buyer obviously hadn’t even had it in hand yet.

That’s capitalism at work.

36. marisacat - 16 December 2007

I found ebay slightly creepy to be frank. Some sellers you could get a good feel they knew what they were doing… others… well………….

I have not been there in years, and still get “spam”… it seemed to be targetted as paypal was. ugh sorry I ever opened either account, frankly.

And I hear the CEO, forget her name, Meg something or other, is doing benefits for R, forget if she has endorsed or not.

37. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

And I hear the CEO, forget her name, Meg something or other, is doing benefits for R, forget if she has endorsed or not.

There you go. Ron Paul may get a lot of rank and file geeks who send him a few hundred bucks but has one big time tech CEO endorsed him?

Nope. That’s because they all know that they’re dependent on the government to run their business. Most programmers, sysadmins, small time tech enterpreneurs, and most geeks in general to be be libertarians, but the big time players will be giving money to Hillary, and to whoever the Republican nominee is.

Bill Gates, note, turned Republican after the anti-trust suit. Yahoo’s willing to play ball with the Chinese Communist Party and help them track down dissidents. Steve Jobs is a bit more hip and liberal than most of them (ie he’ll probably campaign for Hillary but his dream candidate will probably be Obama).

38. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

These “Fidelity Investment” commercials drive me nuts. They all have the premise that there are black people who have some extra money they don’t really know how to manage. So kindly “Fidelity” comes in and helps them while they squabble in a colorful, folksy way. The underlying message is that black people with money are as naive as white people with money. I would assume that black people with extra money would be reasonably savvy but what do I know. I do know Fidelity’s commercials are so patronizing they make me ill. Bleh.

39. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Interesting take on the Republican primary. The Huckabee surge helps McCain. They might be right.

40. marisacat - 16 December 2007

no tech CEO will endorse someone who deep down, under his soft blather, wants to end publicly financed education. Fully.

Not that they care, but the big PR is that they all care “so much” about education.

Silicon Valeey will split the way it always does. LOL for conservatives, some to the Dems some to R. And cash all around.

41. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

no tech CEO will endorse someone who deep down, under his soft blather, wants to end publicly financed education.


no tech CEO will endorse someone who deep down, under his soft blather, wants to end publicly financed education in India or the Ukraine

42. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

It’s really funny watching these “news” stories on MSNBC. One “news” story is really an advertising for the “Wii” game, pronouced “we”.

Better get yours before they sell out!!!!

Your kids might not get theirs for Xmas!!!

They didn’t ramp up production!!!

Anyway, the upshot is that every time Kris Jansing or whatever her name is and the Nitendo press flack disguised as a “news” reporter try to objectively describe “wii” they inadvertently make it look as if there’s no difference between Nitendo and MSNBC.

43. marisacat - 16 December 2007

ever since REAGAN the bullshit is that business cares so much about US education, for a fit work force.

There will always be somewhere to scoop up someone for the special skilled worker visas…

44. marisacat - 16 December 2007

well xmas hype is not exactly NEW.

45. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

well xmas hype is not exactly NEW

Nicole Maistre, the “retail reporter” for Reuters News.

This snow storm means HUGE DEALS as you get closer to Xmas!!!

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

The torture system:

So now the process can be fully diagrammed, and the cast of characters is stunning. The torture system involves the operations division of the CIA on the implementation side. They rely heavily on contractors, it seems, in torturing people. And a special role is apparently played by a couple of psychologists. (Time used to be that healthcare professionals had an oath. It started “first, do no harm.” But, just like the Bible and the Constitution, that’s so pre-9/11. And with the American Psychological Association providing full cover, what’s the worry.)

We know that the Justice Department is right in the thick of it. Who precisely? The answer is most likely the Office of Legal Counsel—which has now emerged as what George Orwell called the “Ministry of Love” (remember: in Nineteen Eighty-Four that’s the ministry that picked and approved torture practices). But it doesn’t end with the opinion lawyers. The National Security Division is also in the thick of things, apparently. Alberto Gonzales, before he became attorney general, played station master for the initial series of torture memos. Once he landed at Justice, he kept a close watch on all torture issues and lied to Congress about it. With the attorney general’s office staking out a close interest in torture, it’s unlikely that others in the Department would have substituted their judgment for his. Thus the ball would seem to be squarely in Michael Mukasey’s court.

And finally the White House. David Addington, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley—these are all name we can now link directly to the torture system. Not just as a matter of theory. As a matter of practical application. They decided who would be tortured and how. And John B. Bellinger III, the man who keeps making a laughing-stock of himself with speeches on international law (as, for instance, when he tells us he can’t raise a legal objection to the idea of the Iranians waterboarding some captured American airman), who was legal counsel at NSC and continues now to hold that role with Condi Rice at State. He constantly issued assurances “off the record” to human rights groups and bar groups that we certainly don’t torture. And now it’s reasonably clear that he was right in the thick of the torture approval process all along.

47. marisacat - 16 December 2007

pass me the non-church holy water… Madman just sent a link and clip from the Rich today in the NYT.


I am reminded that at times in the last primary GE cycle, I was reading Mickey Kraus, just to get away from Liberal Sugar.

48. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007
49. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

I’d be more impressed if he was as savage about how nutty Southern Baptists are, but some of this is great:

I don’t hate Mormons. Some of my best friends are Mormons. Well, okay, one of my best friends is Mormon. Or used to be. He’s not sure anymore. He’s glad he grew up Mormon, likes the values he learned, the respect for family, etc. He’s just not sure about some of the crazy beliefs of the religion. He would like to distance himself from some of that stuff and still be a Mormon–the way Rudy Giuliani can be pro-abortion and very fond of divorce and sequential marriage and still be, or at least call himself, a Catholic. But Mormonism isn’t as flexible as Catholicism. It’s a hook, line and sinker deal. You buy it all–every word of the Book of Mormon and its supplement, the Book of Abraham–or you’re not a Mormon. My friend is a surgeon. He says the Mormon doctors he knows are like him. They have doubts about some things in the books and there are some things in the books that they simply can no longer believe. He can’t imagine any Mormon who graduates from medical school or Harvard Business School like Mitt Romney thinking any other way. But if Romney were to admit to such doubts and reservations, the Church of Latter Day Saints would be forced to say he is no longer a Mormon. And a candidate for president without a religion … well, that could only happen on The West Wing.

Well, bullshit on the flexibility of Catholicism. It may move with the times, but it’s pretty constant on protecting the wealth and perogatives of the Church. The rest is just marketing.

Anyway, I agree fully with how he ends the piece:

I, for one, am a libertarian on marriage. I don’t think the state should tell any of us who we can marry or in what order. I’m cool with gay marriage, Giuliani’s serial polygamy, and Mormon style polygamy as long as it does not involve the rape of children under the age of consent and as long as women can marry as many men as they want. I know you think those are crazy beliefs. All I have to do to prevent you from attacking me for those beliefs is to create a religion like Joseph Smith did. Then you wouldn’t dare question my faith. Well, okay, you would at first. But a few generations from now, when one of my many descendants proudly proclaimed it “the faith of my fathers,” no one would dare question that faith.

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

Really, fuck them all:

Obama Campaign in South Carolina Causes Row Over Free Speech Zone
December 12, 2007 By Matthew Rothschild

ne of Barack Obama’s slogans is “Turn the Page,” but his campaign seemed to take a page from George Bush on December 9 in South Carolina.

That Sunday afternoon, Obama and Oprah were about to speak at University of South Carolina stadium.

A crowd of about 30,000 was entering.

And three demonstrators against nuclear power were carrying signs to warn of the risk that nuclear waste might be dumped in South Carolina in an Obama Administration.

“Obama, Please Oppose a Nuclear Dump in S.C.,” one sign read.

“Obama, Don’t Let S.C. Become Yucca Mountain,” said another.

“Barack: Stop Supporting Plans to Dump High Level Nuclear Waste in South Carolina,” said the third.

The Donklephants didn’t like this raining on their parade:

“A couple of people with the Obama campaign said, ‘You can’t take those signs in.’ And we said, ‘Oh, we know, we’re going to stand outside.’ Then the Obama staff told us we had to leave the property,” Minerd says.

“I said, ‘This is public property, and I should be allowed to be here.’ But they repeated their line, and added: ‘If you want to hold your signs, you can go to the Budweiser sign, which is on the Budweiser building three blocks away.’ So I said, ‘Oh, you’ve got a free speech zone set up just like the Bush Administration.’ I couldn’t believe they were acting like Bush.”

Minerd and Clements, who were standing together, decided not to move. Then the cops came.

According to Minerd, the police told them the stadium had been rented by the Obama campaign. “It was private property for the day, and we had to leave,” they said, according to Minerd. She says the police had patches on their sleeves to cover up their names.

“So then we stood on the other side of the bushes over the fence,” she says, “and they told us, ‘The bushes belong to USC also and you have to completely get off the property.’ And we went across the street, and we just stood there on the sidewalk.”

Clements says, “We stayed over there for about an hour and a half, we had no chance to discuss the nuclear issue with anyone. The whole thing was just a huge disappointment in the Obama campaign. They’re presenting themselves as a new approach to politics, but what they did to us shows it’s just business as usual. They treated us as the Bush campaign would have.”

The activists believe they were discriminated against on the basis of the content of their signs, since they say there were people wearing “Clean Coal” T-shirts who were handing out material, and these people weren’t hassled by campaign staff or the police.

Cooper met up with Clements and Minerd when they were on the sidewalk.

“I finally find them, and they’re across the street,” recalls Cooper. “And I ask them what’s going on, and they say, ‘We were asked by the Obama folks to clear off and go to the free speech zone.’ So I said, ‘That’s bullshit. I’m going to go back across.’ Tom said, ‘You’ll probably be arrested.’ But I went across, and a USC cop hustled after me. This guy was larger than me, and was threatening to arrest me.”

But that’s not all, she says.

“Once I was behind the TV trucks, that’s when he took to shoving me with his chest,” says Cooper.

“I said, ‘What the fuck are you doing shoving a lady over 50?’

“I’m being nice to you today. I’m in a good mood, I’m not going to arrest you,” he responded, according to Cooper, who says she was physically assaulted.

51. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007
52. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

I had my Kerry/Edwards sign (yes, sigh, I had one) trashed 6 times in 2004. I kept putting it back up.

Maybe my evil twin was trying to tell me something?

53. JJB - 16 December 2007

>And a candidate for president without a religion … well, that could only happen on The West Wing.

Or the Nixon and Reagan administrations. I don’t believe there’s a documented case of either going to a church service during their presidencies, other than possibly for funerals and weddings. Certainly Nixon had left his family’s Quaker faith long before he became a slimy, warmongering politician, though as far as I know this was never an issue during his career. I guess spewing his anti-Semitism in the face of Billy Graham (who couldn’t have agreed more) counted as worshiping the Lord in Mad Dick’s opinion. As to Reagan, he paid lip service to religion, but as was pointed out by a debate question in 1984, he never went to church and never had private services in the WH during his terms as president.

54. marisacat - 16 December 2007


You know I was very surprised when ROn jr started pushing Ron Sr’s [supposed] religion, the minute he croaked. I had thought that sort of slurp would come from Patti (tho when younger she was fully on to them, then found, IMO, that money was to be made by sucking up to Dad in public)… or the adopted Michael, that loon.

What screwballs they all are.

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

But both Nixon and Reagan elevated and used religion … I don’t care what people use as their spiritual security blankets, but Nixon, Carter and Reagan SERIOUSLY increased the imposition of superstition into politics.

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

Killed by the Cops:

This summer ColorLines and The Chicago Reporter conducted a joint national investigation of fatal police shootings in America’s 10 largest cities, each of which had more than 1 million people in 2000. Several striking findings emerged.

To begin, African Americans were overrepresented among police shooting victims in every city the publications investigated.

The contrast was particularly noticeable in New York, San Diego and Las Vegas. In each of these cities, the percentage of black people killed by police was at least double that of their share of the city’s total population.

“There is a crisis of perception where African American males and females take their lives in their hands just walking out the door,” said Delores Jones-Brown, interim director of the Center on Race, Crime and Justice at John Jay College in New York.

“There is a notion they will be perceived as armed and dangerous. It’s clear that it’s not just a local problem.”

The shootings may be explained in part by implicit bias on the part of police officers, according to research by University of Chicago Assistant Professor Joshua Correll.

A second significant point: Latinos are a rising number of fatal police shooting victims.

Starting in 2001, the number of incidents in which Latinos were killed by police in cities with more than 250,000 people rose four consecutive years, from 19 in 2001 to 26 in 2005. The problem was exceptionally acute in Phoenix, which had the highest number of Latinos killed in the country.

57. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

and in one of the supporting pieces at Color Lines:

Race as a Trigger

But the second finding was less sanguine. It showed that the officers, just like untrained civilians, seem to exhibit racial bias in their reaction time: They were quicker to decide not to shoot an unarmed white suspect than an unarmed black suspect and slower to decide to shoot an armed white suspect than an armed black suspect. The results, Correll believes, suggest that participants associate African Americans with more violence. And the implication could be ominous, he said.

“Even if the don’t-shoot mechanism translates, there can be bias in who people choose to stop, so police may wind up in more confrontations with black suspects,” he said.

58. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

You know I was very surprised when ROn jr started pushing Ron Sr’s [supposed] religion, the minute he croaked. I had thought that sort of slurp would come from Patti (tho when younger she was fully on to them, then found, IMO, that money was to be made by sucking up to Dad in public)… or the adopted Michael, that loon.

Nixon, Reagan and Kennedy were all the products of a more secular time. They were Christians exactly the way my father’s family was Ctholic and my mother’s family was Lutheran.

It’s something for weddings and funerals and whoever wanted to actually go to church because he/she was old or he/she had nothing better to do. When you got old, you might find Jesus because, hey, why not. Priests have to eat too and you might as well have that heaven/hell thing covered just in case.

Going out of your way to proclaim yourself a militant atheist, well, why? Why ruin your political viability. Atheists don’t organize themselves into voting blocks.

NOW, my mother’s family isn’t Lutheran anymore and my father’s family isn’t Catholic. On both sides, you’re either an evangelical or you just don’t care about religion. I think that’s pretty typical across the country too.

59. JJB - 16 December 2007

Madman, no. 50,

That’s been SOP for quite a while now. When my wife and I lived in northern Delaware, Bill Clinton held a rally in the center of Wilmington in the last days before the election, and my wife went to it (I was stuck at work and couldn’t get away, even though the damn thing was going on about 3 blocks from my office). Even people with hand made pro-Clinton signs were told they couldn’t bring them into the area set up for the crowd, and were given officially sanctioned, professionally manufactured campaign signs in their place. Yet one more sign of how far we’ve progressed towards an authoritarian society in the last 40 years. In 1968, all of the candidates allowed protesters within short distances of them. Wallace and Nixon loved having them to play off, while Muskie and later on Humphrey garnered huge amounts of favorable coverage by engaging the adversarial factions in the crowd in dialogue.

I attended a Nixon rally with an Alfred E. Neumann For President poster stapled to a piece of cardboard box that I attached to a yardstick my parents had sitting around the house. I ended up standing on either a table or someone’s car (it was held in a shopping mall parking lot) about 100 directly in front of the stage, close enough for Nixon to see it when he arrived and started his spiel (he was running late, and the warmup people had the crowd of suburban fuds chanting — I swear this is true — “We want Dick!” over and over). My mother, who’d gone shopping and had no plans to see the rally (she hated Nixon with a visceral passion) ended up in the front row only yards away from him, and shouted abuse at him, including obscenities that even under great emotional stress she ordinarily could only bring herself to spell out. When I saw her after the crowd disbursed, she was obviously quite shaken, described how angry she’d gotten, and told me “I said the ‘F’ word,” both to Nixon and to some woman whose hand he’d shaken as he walked offstage. This poor lady turned to my mother and exclaimed “he touched me!” and my mother, who even at the age of 42 carried herself like the Baby Of The Family Irish-Catholic Schoolgirl she’d been, responded “Fuck You!” I was both proud and envious of her at that moment.

I suppose today I’d have been forced to stand about a mile away from the event (at the very least) and my mother would have found herself wearing handcuffs.

60. marisacat - 16 December 2007

products of a more secular time

yes I remember that too. I am sick to death of the screech of religion. hypocrites, all of them.

61. marisacat - 16 December 2007


yes you would have been bailing your mother out of Jail.

I mean the woman who just SCREAMED at Hillary, did she read the NIE, was removed from the rally and people applauded HILLARY.


62. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

another piece from the Colorlines series:

Compiling a database of media accounts, ColorLines determined that Dorismond and Stansbury were two of 88 shooting fatalities of civilians by the NYPD from January 2000 to April 2007. In order to corroborate our project’s findings, ColorLines filed a Freedom of Information Request to the NYPD in May requesting such data, but by press time had still not received the information.

New York City consistently has the highest number of shooting deaths by police in the country, an average of 12 every year. The city also has substantially disproportionate killing of Black people, who make up 26 percent of the population but represented 66 percent of those killed by police.

Perhaps the most striking data of the period concerns the fates of active officers, on or off duty, found to have fatally shot civilians. Including all shootings–even cases where victims were unarmed–only one officer was convicted of wrongdoing. In 2005, Judge Robert H. Straus found Officer Bryan Conroy guilty of criminally negligent homicide in the 2003 death of Ousmane Zongo, a West African immigrant and art restorer who rented a storage room at a Chelsea warehouse where the NYPD was conducting a raid targeting a counterfeit CD and DVD operation. A jury trial had previously deadlocked when considering the case.According to the judge, Zongo–who had no criminal record or involvement in the counterfeit ring–emerged from his room and encountered Conroy, who was guarding a stack of CDs. In response, Conroy, who was dressed as a mail carrier, assumed a combat stance by raising his weapon and pointing it at Zongo. According to Conroy’s testimony, Zongo lunged at him and then fled. Conroy, who acknowledged that he knew Zongo was unarmed, chased him for 50 yards and claimed he was forced to shoot Zongo four times during a struggle for his gun. Ballistics evidence indicated that the bullets hit Zongo’s body and traveled downward–contradicting Conroy’s testimony that he fired from the hip–and that at least one bullet hit Zongo in the back.

Still, although Judge Straus stated that the NYPD conducted the raid in a haphazard manner, and he determined that Conroy’s actions were criminal, his sentence for Conroy was lenient–five years probation and 500 hours of community service, versus the four years in prison he could have received. (After the judge’s ruling, Conroy was fired by the NYPD.) In 2006, as a result of a civil case, the city paid $3 million to Zongo’s relatives to settle a wrongful death lawsuit.

63. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

yes I remember that too. I am sick to death of the screech of religion. hypocrites, all of them.

The whole point of the Kennedy Houston speech was that here you have a young, secular guy who just happens to be a Catholic and all the people who were worried about it were just backward idiots.

The Romney speech flipped it. Now he’s got to prove that he really does believe that Jebus is his personal savior and not that, I don’t know, he and his three wives are going to move to their own planet after they die and this planet will be right next to Arial Sharon’s planet (who the Mormon’s converted posthumously).

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

a pox on all of them, and their imaginary Friends.

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

holy shit:

The use of this judgment has led some cops to interpret mere human presence in occupied buildings as a sufficient threat to warrant a potentially deadly response. Several months after the Stansbury shooting, Brooklyn firefighters responding to a call of a stuck elevator in a public housing development in East New York climbed to the roof to shut off the power. As they walked through the door to the roof, they were met by two cops on a vertical patrol whose guns were aimed directly at them. According to the fire department, the cops explained that they had pointed their guns at them “because they had heard someone coming up the stairs.”

In response, the fire department sent a safety bulletin to every firehouse in the city, alerting them to “loudly announce that they are members of the Fire Department” when entering stairwells or the roof and to remember that “this situation”–of finding NYPD guns suddenly trained on them–”can occur anytime day or night.”

66. marisacat - 16 December 2007

yes the Kennedy speech was entirely different.

67. marisacat - 16 December 2007

and 500 hours of community service,

and I am sure his community service was very lenient too.

68. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

You know, Nixon wasn’t all that anti-semitic or atheistical.

He did ask Henry Kissinger to pray with him.

BTW, Nixon was also brought up as a Quaker. The fact that he was anything but a practicing Quaker was all too obvious to everybody to make it into a news event.

It’s just another way things have changed. Obama is even less of a Muslim than Gore is a Quaker but that won’t stop everybody from turning *that* into a news event.

69. JJB - 16 December 2007

Nixon, Reagan and Kennedy were all the products of a more secular time.

I suppose I’ve read more ridiculous and inaccurate statements on the Internet over the years, but I can’t remember them, and don’t care to. “Divorced from reality” doesn’t even begin to describe that one.

MCat, no. 54,

Ronald Reagan is a corporate brand, and a shareholder like Ron Jr. knows you don’t protect the value of your investment by telling the truth. I’ve seen him make statements about his father that verge on schizophrenic. After his Alzheimer’s was made public, there was some talk that the “Goodbye To The American Public” letter that was released had in fact been written by someone else. Ron Jr. was interviewed on CBS (probably on 60 Minutes) and said no, it’s genuine, I know because it doesn’t mention any of his children. He said this with an expression and tone that indicated a fair amount of bitterness. Then shortly afterwards (in the program this was shown on, I don’t know how much cutting they might have done) he spoke about how if he had some great question of moral principle to which he needed an answer, his father would be the person to whom he’d go and whose advice he’d take. This time, face and voice displayed considerable warmth (he also referred to his mother as “Nancy,” and from the way he spoke of her you’d think he was referring to a disliked stepmom). As I recall, when he was young and his father was California governor, they tried to portray the family as being straight out of “My Three Sons,” or “Leave It To Beaver,” with the former program being the template most followed. They even referred to Ron Jr. as “Skipper,” which is remarkably similar to MTS’s “Chipper.” He must have been given a lot of coaching to keep this charade up, and I imagine that even those many years later he was reverting to the role he’d been trained to play as a child. It must be difficult for him to do this, considering his parents basically disowned him when he was living as a struggling ballet dancer in NY and was schlepping to the Unemployment Office every couple of weeks to sign for his check.

70. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Actually according to Wikipedia (take that for what it’s worth) Nixon was a practicing Quaker all his life.

I guess he never got very good at it.

71. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Obama is even less of a Muslim than Gore is a Quaker

Yikes. How did I make that mistake. Now the MSM is going to pick it up and amplify it all over the internets and soon you’ll have freepers actually believing that we dodged having a pacifist in the White House in 2000 by 500 votes.

72. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

I suppose I’ve read more ridiculous and inaccurate statements on the Internet over the years, but I can’t remember them, and don’t care to. “Divorced from reality” doesn’t even begin to describe that one.

I see you’re still smarting from the fact that I wouldn’t buy into your anti-communist conspiracy mongering. I’ve completely forgotten about it, to tell you the truth. Thanks for reminding me.

Still waiting for that Cockburn article, btw.

But it doesn’t take away from the fact that Kennedy grew up in the decades before Vatican II and Nixon and Reagan grew up in a protestant America that didn’t have Christian broadcasting, didn’t have megachurches, and didn’t have religious tests for office.

Yes, you had Al Smith being pummeled for being Catholic in 1928 and you had prohibition. And you also had a backlash against it. Anybody proposing that you teach the Bible in biology class in 1960 would have run right up against the campaign around Sputnik to improve education.

73. marisacat - 16 December 2007

I am for any world where I am spared this scheisse (and it is a large part of why I am nto voting for any of them):

“It was because of these new-found understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice and not an epiphany. The questions I had didn’t magically disappear. The sceptical bent of my mind didn’t suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.”

Obama CT 2007…

ugh… it is so awful that when my stomach is empty will have to go to his site to look up the full speech.

74. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Then there’s this.


U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama suggested Friday that the United States one day might have to launch surgical missile strikes into Iran and Pakistan to keep extremists from getting control of nuclear bombs….Obama said that violent Islamic extremists are a vastly different brand of foe than was the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and they must be treated differently….”I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman,” Obama said.

75. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

I guess he never got very good at it.

In my experience, that is true for almost ALL “religious” people. I haven’t met very many people who have done any real spiritual searching or meditation on what they believe. It’s a costume, or a nurtured tradition, or just business in order to advance in a given community. That’s all, and Nixon was likely no different.

76. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Interestingly, I was watching a History Channel program on Lincoln’s Cooper Union Speech and they said he originally wrote it for Henry War Beecher’s church in Brooklyn.

But THEN, he realized that he’d have to give it at Cooper Union to a general political audience so he had to go back to his hotel room and strip out all the religion.

So even in 1860, you had a candidate who believed that there was a difference between religion and general politics, that religion was part of American life but wasn’t identical to politics.

So I read through the Cooper Union speech and couldn’t find a single reference to God, not one.


That’s about as religious as it got.

Let us be diverted by none of those sophistical contrivances wherewith we are so industriously plied and belabored – contrivances such as groping for some middle ground between the right and the wrong, vain as the search for a man who should be neither a living man nor a dead man – such as a policy of “don’t care” on a question about which all true men do care – such as Union appeals beseeching true Union men to yield to Disunionists, reversing the divine rule, and calling, not the sinners, but the righteous to repentance – such as invocations to Washington, imploring men to unsay what Washington said, and undo what Washington did.

77. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

Wish I Had Written This

It’s MY damn vote and I’ll “waste” it however the hell I want. Neither the Democrats, nor the Libertarians, nor the Republicans, nor the Greens – and certainly not YOU – owns my vote, and I’m fucking sick of this arrogant entitlement and smug assumption that you know more about my principles and interests than I do.

It’s MY vote, and I’ll deploy it however the fuck I want. Just because I don’t vote the way that you might wish doesn’t mean I’m stupid. It means that politics to me is more than just blindly checking the box next to a D just because it stands for “Democrat.”

Reposting of a comment found on an “A-list” blog, though I can’t find a link to where.

78. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

oh, and Scruggs pops up another thread:

Ghost Dansing,

The liberals who built the welfare state and tried to put a check on the national security state are thirty years gone. They were never strong to begin with. The majority of Democrats have always been authoritarian right wing-lite. The only times they’ve let up on that came from internal rebellion and external populist pressure. They are opportunistic collaborators.

The partially privatized national security state, a Truman creation, has been around for decades. So has the militarization of law enforcement and the use of torture kidnappings as an extension of spying. Before the Military Commissions Act finished it off, habeas corpus was gutted by Clinton’s Effective Death Penalty Act. He also used DynCorp as an end run around Congressional oversight in the Drug War and doubled the prison population during his tenure. Truman, Kennedy and Johnson all found a use for one of the nastiest thugs ever, J. Edgar Hoover, when they needed someone to harass civil rights activists.

The Bushist continuation and acceleration of those policies and that legacy is not going to be turned around by the Democratic Party. The party’s present incarnation is blatantly dedicated to making sure the heirs of liberal reform don’t get another chance. It is a vichy party to the wingnut fascists and yes, they can be compared to them.
Scruggs | 12.15.07 – 11:42 pm | #

79. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

apparently that comment was originally posted at Shakespears Sister (link is to the commentor’s blog. I thought I’d send some more hits her way). In this follow-up post:

I am so fucking sick of this reading of it, and the way that it is always, always, always directed at people whom the Democrats think have no other “real” options but to vote for them.

I dislike the Republican Party intensely, but there are two things they do that I respect. First, they take their base seriously, including the far-right loony fringe. They know who puts them in office, and they know how to throw them a few bones now and then. Second, someone who doesn’t vote for them is not considered a traitor to the party, a purist, an idealist, or a fool. Someone who doesn’t vote for a Republican candidate is, simply, someone who didn’t vote for the Republican candidate.

What’s especially galling about Democratic purists – yep, I used that word, because it is, in fact, a better label than the “pragmatist” label they’d like to apply to themselves – is that they offer these same courtesies – to voters on the right. If a Republican voter votes for a Republican candidate, it’s not a big deal. If a bunch of conservative people wave the religion flag, the Democrats jostle each other to see who will follow it with the most Bible-thumping, or start concern-trolling about how Democrats need to be more religious if they don’t want to lose those votes. If some independent decides not to vote for the Democratic candidate, they shrug and move on, and try harder next election to win him or her over.

But if an atheist progressive decides that he can’t stomach the Democrats’ religious posturing, or a gay voter wonders if this might be another year of mealy-mouthing about marriage, or a pacifist is dismayed by repeated Democratic funding of Bush’s war, or a religious liberal gets sick of Democrats’ unwillingness to challenge torture, or if a Green voter decides to vote for a Green candidate — whoa, nelly, we can’t have that! It’s not practical. It’s too idealistic. Worse, it’s a wasted vote. And worse yet, it’s the reason Bush is in office.

No, it’s not.

80. marisacat - 16 December 2007

Vichy Dems..

well frankly I think the Dems and Repubs have had their Wannsee conference.

81. bayprairie - 16 December 2007

#29 and pink hanky week.

i’ve been enjoying myself this week reading all the anti-reid pieces by the boyos. they’re all just SHOCKED! reid’s outed himself so badly as an anti-american republican-corporate tool that not even THEY can paper over reid’s mile wide fault.

and every single one of them, within the last year, has been singing reid’s praises as “fightin harry reid” the savior of the nutroots, the man who’ll end the war.

flip floppers every one. a year ago in jan they were touting reid, and now they sell him short.

there ought to be a “special extra large pink starched hankie” award for 2007’s best harry reid puff piece by a boyo blogger.

82. Intermittent Bystander - 16 December 2007

Storm update from an undisclosed location not far from Schenectady: Got a few inches of snow overnight, followed by light sleet and freezing rain. No precip at present – a brief lull – but the roads will continue to funkify, with more sleet, snow, and ice accumulations expected later today and tonight.

Hunkered down with stacks of CDs handed off by rabid-right brother-in-law, now a satellite radio convert . . . sadly, he physically destroyed his entire Steve Earle collection in a fit of pique after the Ballad of John Walker Lindh came out. Trying to harvest the best tunes from the non-schlocky Celtic discs, for the annual mixed compilation.

Along the way, bumped into this:

Though the nature of our fate may seem uncertain and the great parade of life a meandering stream we shall not despair

Let us descended from the great house of Fish raise up our fins in joyful supplication
To the waters that begat us, to all of our partners in slime—

To unraveling the mystery of life!

From The Evolutionist’s Prayer, in the Hall of Ich-Theology, at the Hairy Museum of Natural History. (Illustrations by Ray Troll!)

More Troll Art: Evolvovision.

83. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

Madman, I can’t even stand to look at any part of Kosdagontrioscafeland any more, unless there’s somebody here to vet it for me first. I just can’t take any of it any more.

What sticks under my skin like an infected splinter is the sort of thing in BHHM’s link to Kosdagontrioscafeland the other day in which some typical moron is whining that WE MUST SAVE MINIMUM WAGE HIKES SO IT’S A-OKAY THAT THE FUCKING SPEAKER FAVORS THE TORTURE OF FOREIGN NATIONALS !!! Somehow, if I were a better writer, I could link this with the Scruggs link to Silber in which the latter talks about children, not adults, being the only true practitioners of obedience because it’s children, not adults, who are completely dependent upon adults for survival.

The bleaters are essentially casting themselves in the unconvincing role of helpless children and proclaiming that they have to wuv Torture Mommy and Torture Daddy or they’ll diiiiiiiiiiie. Either that, or they are casting themselves as proxy mommies and daddies (elder siblings ?) of the truly helpless children who will diiiiiiiiiiiie if the proxies don’t do everything they can to keep Torture Mommy and Daddy in power.

This is so incredibly fucked that I can’t even list all the ways that it’s worthy of contempt. I remember similar whinging from Gilliard and his crowd (may he rest in peace) about how they were REALLY DOING IT ALL for the DOWNTRODDEN ! I have my doubts as to how many of them are truly as helpless, even economically, as they imply in these endless excuse fests. Not to mention how many of them are clearly angling to either acquire or maintain a spot at the trough. Cowardice is selflessness. Social climbing is social change. Fuckers. They are repulsive.

I feel nauseous. I wish I were a better writer. :/

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

sadly, he physically destroyed his entire Steve Earle collection in a fit of pique after the Ballad of John Walker Lindh came out.

I’ll never understand why people destroy something they own, and maybe once treasured, b/c an artist does something later they hate.

Give up “Guitar Town” or “Copperhead Road” or “Transcendental Blues”?!?!

BTW, Steve’s latest is wonderful.

85. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

I didn’t destroy Juliana Hatfield’s discs after she said a bunch of stupid ignorant shit about other women who play guitar, but I did trade her discs in for some more Deborah Coleman. Or maybe it was Elizabeth Cotten. Whichever.

Here’s some fun she-guitar. :p Not Juliana.

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

If I had to get rid of every book, cd or whatever produced by someone who did/said/created something stupid, I’d have little left.

Hell, sometimes I play Alice Cooper and Ted Nugent when I’m feeling nostalgic for my younger years (and “Billon Dollar Babies” was one of the best fucking rock records of its time … my collection would have a big hole in it without it).

87. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

I’ll see your Nugent and Cooper and raise you Ellington (voted Nixon) and Mingus (beat up his sidemen).

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

Oh, them too. And Ike Turner (if I read “famous for beating Tina” again I’m going to scream).

I am a little more ashamed of cranking up “Cat Scratch Fever” and “Wang, Dang, Sweet Poontang” than you would be by “Take the A Train”.

89. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

I don’t mind that Turner is remembered for beating the shit out of his wife. Those who proclaimed that Tina’s proclamation of abuse “ruined his career” are full of shit anyway. Hell, he played the Blues Fest here about five years ago to enthusiastic crowds and I don’t remember a single commentator who dared (or is it bothered to) bring up the fact that he was a fucking abuser.

What you’ve got to wonder is how many more musicians, or men in general, have that kind of shit in their past. Well, we heard a little about Jackson Browne when he was with Daryl Hannah. Most won’t even pay the nominal penalty that Turner paid, because most women won’t dare to speak up. No matter what kind of business they’re in.

90. Intermittent Bystander - 16 December 2007

Thanks for that, Madman. Hadn’t heard about Washington Square Serenade. And thanks to ms. x for the Nara Leao upthread – also new to me.

Brother-in-law would have gladly manned a bulldozer during the Dixie Chicks smashfests, if only he had lived further south. (He tends to favor the motto of his ancestral forebears, the Gunn Clan: “War or Peace.”) But weirdly enough, he has more of a sense of humor about our political, er, disagreements than my sister does, with whom all such discussion is simply and strictly banned. Siblings are funny that way.

91. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

Oh, and lest anyone doubt that I share Madman’s love of trash, the real reason my day was ruined yesterday was that I couldn’t find South Park’s “It’s Christmas Time In Hell” on youtube. 😦

92. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

didn’t destroy Juliana Hatfield’s discs after she said a bunch of stupid ignorant shit about other women who play guitar

I remember how they tried to market her as a 26 year old virgin when she first got signed.

Then I found out she did drugs with Evan Dando.

93. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

I bet mr_xeno secretly likes The Lemonheads. I should go and pre-emptively mock him. :p

94. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

I used to like Paul Simon before he went and ruined a perfectly good Lemonheads song (Mrs. Robinson) by covering it.

You can never beat the original.

95. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

Gevalt, Hair Club.

There ought to be laws against being that (to cop a phrase from MST3K’s immortal take on Tommy Kirk in Village of the Giants) “self-consciously dreamy.”

IB, I don’t remember how I heard of Leao. Probably another blog or some downloading frenzy on LimeWire.

96. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

Watching Lord of the Rings on TV. Jeez. There’s a seriously racist side of these three films I’ve never noticed before.

The dirty faced blond refugees all look like something out of a Turner Diaries race war distopia.

The only thing approaching multiculturalism are the Hobbits (Irish obviously) and the dwarves (Scots obviously).

The evil men with the Oliphants all look like Arabs and have Arab headdresses but at least they’re not the orcs, who are both terrifying and terrifyingly wimpy.

Gimi and Legalos are keeping a body count.

Eowyn is Jessica Lynch in Rambo mode.

And it’s all one big monarchy.

97. Intermittent Bystander - 16 December 2007

Not sure I can keep up with y’all on trash (though I do own a Lemonheads disc, and always liked a couple of Alice Cooper tunes) but perhaps your more worldly, swayve, and ‘phisticated sides might enjoy Lhasa de Sela. Interesting Pan-American-European life story, too.

RootsWorld interview with more audio clips here.

98. bayprairie - 16 December 2007

83 said

Here’s some fun she-guitar. :p Not Juliana.

she-guitar? hey i’ll play. i’m holding a pair of fingerstyle telecasters.

Sue Foley and Carolyn Wonderland

99. JJB - 16 December 2007

Very interesting how some people, when their inane statements are pointed out, try not to back up what they say but claim the people who refute them are somehow still hurting from conversations going back several weeks, and express themselves in snippy tones that are the hallmark of wounded vanity.

Maybe if I spent most of my life clogging up someone else’s blog with my ignorance instead of hosting my own I’d be that thin-skinned myself.

Anyway, ask and ye shall receive. Anyone unable to find that is either hopelessly lazy or inept.

And our lives are far less constrained by the power of organized religion than they were 45-80 years ago, as anyone with accurate memories of any part of that extensive time period can tell you.

100. Intermittent Bystander - 16 December 2007

bayprairie – That was fun – nice break from the ethereal trilling on some of these Celtic CDs!

101. Miss Devore - 16 December 2007

pink everlast speaks:

“I have the greatest respect for Joe, but I simply have to disagree with his decision to endorse Senator McCain,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said in a statement to CNN.”

102. marisacat - 16 December 2007

just let Madman, ms xeno, JJB and HCfM out of moderation … I see that someone replied to ms xeno’s at 83, so some may have been visible.

sigh. soemtimes the glitch is that WP improperly informs comments are in moderation.


Coal for WP for Xmas……………..8) — and sorry for the delay!

103. Hair Club for Men - 16 December 2007

And our lives are far less constrained by the power of organized religion than they were 45-80 years ago, as anyone with accurate memories of any part of that extensive time period can tell you.

Hmm. I thought you were being all macho and shit and “icing me out” and not responding to me at all. Damn. Why can’t people ever keep their word.

You’re also making the mistake a lot of people do (and not backing it up of course), that history moves in a linear fashion and not in sharp starts and ruptures.

So, in this view, civilization is moving inevitably towards secularism and the further we are from 1776, the more secular we’re inevitably going to be.

In your view, since we’ve had people on the moon for over 30 years and we all have personal computers, we all must be more secular.

Would that it worked that way.

Unfortunately, history moves in cycles, not in a straight line. As long as we’re part of the same American capitalist civilization, religion and secularism will always be in conflict. Sometimes (as from 1945-1980) secularism will be stronger. Sometimes (as in the present) religion will be stronger.

If you came of political age after the Second World War (as Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan all did) your assumptions were formed at a time when secularism was in the ascendence. Thus, not even the Republican party wanted to put the Bible in the classroom in 1960 when Kennedy ran against Nixon because we were all competing against the Russians, and feeling we were losing. White ethnics (Catholics and Jews) were more interested in being “American” (which meant, secular, Protestant, Episcopalian) than in finding their own authenticity. The officer corps in all four branches of the military (and Andrew Bacevich is especially good at this) was mostly secular or Episcolian, as opposed to the present, where its Evangalical.

And so on.

As for my “clogging someone else’s blog” you’re free to ban me any time you want (from yours). I’ve also posted a link to my own blog a number of times which anybody (but you unfortunately) is welcome (actually encouraged) to comment on.

Thanks for the Cockburn link. I may get around to reading it. Unfortunately it’s *your* responsibility to make *your* arguments, not mine. Don’t bother replying. I’m finished responding to you. And, unlike yourself, I have the discipline to keep my word.

Have a good evening.

104. marisacat - 16 December 2007

liebchen endorsed McCain. … Which just makes me laugh, as we know Hill and BIll agree with McCain any day of the week.

May all their faces peel off.

105. marisacat - 16 December 2007

And the Blahhhhhhhhgers Boyz have done so much for the world. Not. Basically they are the smallest, littlist wanna-be rat fuckers I have ever seen. Small droppings too.

I wish, instead of retreating into social and cultural work, more of the lefty Boomers had tried to break up this cabal. Or, maybe they did, and simply weren’t allowed to reach the peak of their professions because they didn’t have the proper, rebellious hatred of the DFHs.

Chris Bowers

106. BooHooHooMan - 16 December 2007

…the Blahhhhhhhhgers Boyz have done so much for the world. Not. Basically they are the smallest, littlist wanna-be rat fuckers I have ever seen. Small droppings too.

But amazingly, it’s supposed to taste just like chicken….with balls.

107. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

Thanks for bailing me out, Mcat. Though of course it perpetually hurts my heart that I will never be cool enough to hang out w/Bowers.

Ehhh… the music’s better over here anyway. The win goes, once again, to bayprairie.

BTW, I went to check out Madman’s link above to “Ghost Dansing”‘s comments and all I can say is that if one more DP apologist quotes that hackneyed and utterly not-germane-to-the-argument Will Rogers line, I’m going to dress up like a giant Xmas fruitcake, roll around in a wading pool of cheap brandy, and then set myself on fire with a blowtorch.

Fuckin’ idjits.

108. bayprairie - 16 December 2007

i love fruitcake. in fact i’m cross today because the store was out of those green candied cherries!

109. ms_xeno - 16 December 2007

I can’t decide which frightens me more, bay. The fruitcake or BHHM’s recipe for chicken balls. Oh, woe…

110. bayprairie - 16 December 2007

awwwww come on xeno. i hadn’t even gotten to the gibson girls yet!

Deborah Coleman

111. Madman in the Marketplace - 16 December 2007

Those are all great, but I have to saySusan Tedeschi is my fav female guitar slinger.

112. marisacat - 16 December 2007

new thread…………….


113. bayprairie - 16 December 2007

oh yeah madman she’s excellent, boston girl, berklee grad i’m thinking, and plays a tele too (usually).

but her husband’s a total SG guy. saw them in austin once. he fingerpicks!

Derek Trucks and Susan Tedeschi

114. bayprairie - 16 December 2007

derek ‘n susan due eric ‘n duane

but hey, can i see this for free at artz rib house?

no? well shit!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: