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Ever onward…… 29 December 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Pakistan, WAR!.

 archeological site south of Khairpur in Sindh province southern Pakistan

 Kot Diji archaeological and historical site south of Khairpur, Pakistan – Sindh province  [Frederic Ohringer from the Nancy Palmer Agency-EB Inc.]

I scammed this link from Angry Arab, eyewitness accounts and ruminations from a Pakistani journalist writing anonymously…

[T]here are two concurrent stories circulating among journalists in Lahore presently. The first, which was published in the Daily Times, attributes the killing to a 20-something young man on a motorbike with a Kalashnikov who made the shot at point blank. Videos of the shooting that have been broadcast on Indian television channels suggest that the shots were fired out of a pistol from a distance of 30 feet.

At the Lahore Press Club this morning, many journalists made the trek down from the Rawalpindi disaster to Lahore to cover the protest on the mall. From a respected senior journalist, I was given a first-hand account of the assassination.

“Benazir popped her head out of her armoured car for about two or three seconds, during which a gunmen armed with a 9mm pistol fired three shots from 30 feet away, two of which landed in her neck,” he told me. There was an ongoing discussion at the club’s canteen between eyewitnesses, and the consensus was that anyone that can land so many shots in a frame of a few seconds had to have been trained by the military or the intelligence agencies.

There are some residencies that overlook the site of the shooting, and I spoke with some of the house owners about the incident. “Political rallies are apt to happen around these parts, and the police always ask us if they can depute officers from our roof to survey the situation. They didn’t this time. When I asked them about it prior to BB’s arrival, they told me to stay inside and bolt my gate,” one resident told me.

The former chief of the ISI Hamid Gul spoke on a segment on Dawn News TV, where he asked, rhetorically, why the scene of the assassination washed out and cleaned up before forensics were allowed to assess it. Even within the supposedly monolithic intelligence agency there are ongoing questions and dissent being voiced. Where does that leave us?  ::snip::

And… a timely link from JJB in the previous thread… we are lost in deep politics and para-politics.

And lost in Iowa.





1. Miss Devore - 29 December 2007

It’s time for change. And that’s why I’m changing the headlines:

“Alleged bin Laden essay wins Hannah Montana tickets.”

2. marisacat - 29 December 2007

LOL well if not time for change then on to Electability.

Still an exploding 50 + ton whale on a hot day.

3. marisacat - 29 December 2007

rat-a-tat-tat-a-tat-a-tat-rat-a-tat More on the Mellon money via the atty with PoA for Bunny Mellon.

Don’t wanna leave any of the Iowa culprits out.

4. liberalcatnip - 29 December 2007

Go Cindy:

PASADENA, Calif. (AP) — There could be some discord during the Tournament of Roses Parade as demonstrators promise to raise issues during the holiday spectacle that has been going on for more than a century. Human rights advocates plan to protest a float honoring the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games and anti-war activists, including “Peace Mom” Cindy Sheehan, intend to rally for peace.
Protest organizer John Li, a member of Caltech’s chapter of Falun Gong, the spiritual movement outlawed by the Chinese government in 1999, promised his group would be seen if not heard.
Sheehan, the outspoken San Francisco Bay area activist whose son was killed in Iraq, is campaigning for Congress against Rep. Nancy Pelosi and calling for the impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. She will join other pro-impeachment and anti-war groups at the parade, according to her sister, Dede Miller.

As many as 1,000 supporters are expected to rally before and after the parade and distribute 20,000 pamphlets while flying 300 banners along the parade route, said Peter Thottam, executive director of the Los Angeles National Impeachment Center.

No doubt kos will be blogging about the game, not the politics.

5. marisacat - 29 December 2007

if raincat is around, Bowers has a pretty straightforward meat and potatoes look at the possible deals in Iowa.

Just a stray thought, imo Dodd would not go with obama.

There is this in comments from desmoinesdem (whose diaries have been interesting caucus process):

I expect no big deals this time (0.00 / 0)

No public announcements from any candidate about whom their supporters should back as a second choice.

Individual precinct captains may be cutting deals independently, though. It doesn’t take much for an Obama captain to figure out that depriving Clinton of delegates should be a priority, for instance.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

by: desmoinesdem @ Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 19:20:51 PM CST
[ Parent ]

6. Hair Club for Men - 29 December 2007
7. marisacat - 30 December 2007

let me ask you something ..

Is the roll out against Ron Paul across the shit faced Blahgs worse than what they rolled out (for a year and more) agaisnt a useless, Dem party capitulist, inside the game, Red State sell-out of womens’ needs and RIGHTS, the DEM PARTY INSTALLED head of NARAL?

The Blahgs do what the blahgs do. They pick targets for a variety of reasons, mostly paid progaganda work (imo) or hit jobs for the elements in the party that run the blogs (and thus the elements in the right wing that runs the damned fucked party)

and so on.

And then of course there is ROn Paul. He means to do us such good.

its a steaming crock pot of rotted flesh.

AND imo ANYONE who supports that wall from a vote for it (Obama, tho he cached it as “a long term plan” probably meaning the vote was political and the wall would never be built, such a TRUSTING fella) to Bill Clinton who pushed and endorsed Nafta and militarised the Soutehrn border, forcing border crossers to the desert to die.



sick of the parsing.

8. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Is the roll out against Ron Paul across the shit faced Blahgs worse than what they rolled out (for a year and more) agaisnt a useless, Dem party capitulist, inside the game, Red State sell-out of womens’ needs and RIGHTS, the DEM PARTY INSTALLED head of NARAL?

No. Here’s what I write about it.

In other words, Ron Paul not only has to be defeated, he has to be crushed and humiliated. His positions not only have to be rebutted, they have to be marked as so “kooky” that anybody sharing them will be automatically considered unacceptable to the American mainstream. You can’t just argue against his anti-immigrant politics because Hillary might have to pander to the anti-immigrant right in the general election. You can’t just argue against his opposition to abortion because Harry Reid himself opposes abortion and you might just have to campaign for another blue dog Democrat like Casey in Pennsylvania who also opposes abortion.

9. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

While Ron Paul’s more reactionary positions, ending birthright citizenship and opposing abortion rights, are essentially no different from the mainstream of the Republican party and that middle American center the Democrats are endlessly pandering to, Paul’s more progressive positions, ending the occupation of Iraq and ending the hostile relationship with Iran, are unacceptable to the bipartisan foreign policy consensus, one that includes the entire mainstream political spectrum all the way from George Bush on the right to every Democratic candidate for president except Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich. By continuing to inject his non-inventionist stance into mainstream political discourse, Ron Paul threatens to stir up dissent within the Democratic party base among people who, while they won’t vote for Paul himself, probably won’t vote for Hillary Clinton either. It’s likely that they’ll just say home and throw the race to John McCain or Mitt Romney.

10. marisacat - 30 December 2007

He got strategically targetted by the Blahgs.

And he himself is a mess.

It’s a party!

11. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Justin Raimondo, one of Paul’s biggest supporters, objects to a racist ad put out by Paul’s campaign (an actual racist ad approved by Paul himself not some made up shit by Bill White) and Raimondo gets flooded by Paultards.


They’re as bad as Edwards supporters on the Daily Kos.

12. marisacat - 30 December 2007

I find the partisan primary threads hilarious. NONE Of them wants a word said against whomever their bleoved is…

My postition in 2003/4 was that Dean had to live thru whatever they threw at him.

It is silly to be fragile about this stuff.

13. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

I just wonder if the Edwards supporters at the Daily Kos really think that Edwards has any chance of winning.

My prediction for November of 2008 and you heard it here first.

McCain edges out Hillary in a close election by going negative. The voter turnout is the lowest in history.

14. marisacat - 30 December 2007

for a long long time there was “no space no light” between them, Hillary and McCain, on US Foreign Policy. Anything she shows now (including her lies of “ending the war”) is just that, lies.

Finally they have what they want, it does not matter.

If the Dems went in, there might be a bit more nutrition in the WIC programs.

As I have said, the OUt of Iraq, and infact the diversionary Progressive Caucus in the hOuse, should disband and apologise for having misled the so called Liberal Democratic base.

That really is all there is.

15. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Spearking of the Progressive Caucus, Bernie was pretty good in 1996. Democracy Now just put up their old archives before 1997, going all the way back to their original shows when they were an election program.

I think archive.org is down but the 1996 shows are worth listening to.


To me is seems as if:

McCain = Dole
Paul = Buchanan
Bloomberg = Forbes if he didn’t run
Romney = Lamar Alexander


Hillary doesn’t equal Bill

16. marisacat - 30 December 2007

funny, Bernie seemed to matter more in teh House than he does as a supposedly progressive senator. And again dead silence from him during Lebanon war.

It really is finished, but that it will limp on.

I found ’96 just bizarre, to be frank.

17. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

And since there was no war in Iraq in 1996, Buchanan had no redeeming qualities.

Listening to Bernie and Amy Goodman going after Buchanan day after day in 1996 makes you realize what pussies the gang at the Daily Kos really are.

18. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

funny, Bernie seemed to matter more in teh House than he does as a supposedly progressive senator. And again dead silence from him during Lebanon war.

The difference is the war in Iraq and the “war on terror”.

As bizarre as 96 was, they were actually talking about the economy, jobs, the environment, immigration, real issues. There was no huge fear out there that the Republicans could call on anytime they fell behind.

Bernie wasn’t going to be litmus tested on foreign policy. He could just play the populist role on the economy and media consolidation (which he’s really good on).

Listening to Bernie in 1996 just gut Buchanan on Buchanan’s fake populism is just fun to listen to.

19. marisacat - 30 December 2007

well now we have Lynn Woolsey supporting Hillary.

I happened to catch a short thread (at that point it was three comments) I think at Mydd (but it is a blur) to the annouonce of her endorse and the three comments all said the same thing:

How GREAT! as she has immense anti war cred.

And where will her cred be should Hillary go in (and there are policy advantages to a trade off of power, I still sayt they will use a Dem to reinstate, slowly, a draft and a few other things) and the war grinds on, as it will.

NONE of these people has credibility of any kind.

As I keep saying, Barney the WH dog to the Senate.

It cannot be worse.

20. marisacat - 30 December 2007

too too funny:

[C]linton has been edging closer in recent weeks to arguing that the country would be taking a chance if voters nominated someone with less experience in Washington, such as Barack Obama. Speaking in Plymouth, N.H. last week, he said that his wife would be best suited to handle the challenges of terrorism, climate change and income inequality, and hinted that if these challenges were not met, that the world, or at least American democracy, might be in peril in the coming decades. ::snip::

She can handle climate change, as she leaps tall buildings in a single whatever.

“How we meet those challenges will determine whether our grandchildren will even be here fifty years from now at a meeting like this listening to the next generation’s presidential candidates,”

Clinton told several hundred voters in Plymouth. He did not elaborate on what he meant by the prospect of the audience’s grandchildren not being there in 50 years.

21. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

A coupla pieces I ‘ve put up …

The first piece, hopefully, is a fun look at the Iowa Ground game, some tids in there on camels, [ winking at Dee] — even the use of facial hair as a demograhic device.. Anyways, it was current as of the 27th, and I think goes to the nature of how scraping the barrell will make the difference vs. mass media ops..FWIW, it was prior to today’s Nagourney and the last min blitz coverage.

I had just posted the Iowa gander as the Bhutto news came in…

Thus, the Deal with Bhutto, Pakistan, and Pipelines.

The rinky dink-imations are done via MS paint. Any assholery on either vid is entirely, organically, my own…

22. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

The move for the GOP is to go with McCain.
They’ll cut a contrast campaign against Billary then be merciless with surrogates on the four cheeked Clintonian ass..

Mcat,…….Safeway! Bulk Pocorn Division!

23. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

Hair Club.. # 13 I just wonder if the Edwards supporters at the Daily Kos really think that Edwards has any chance of winning.

Sure they do. These people by and large , despite all evidence to the contrary still believe that the Dems deep down really would impeach if they could impeach.

That kinda “deep down” is well past six feet under.. Of the various posturing gophers they haven’t beaned yet coming out of the hole, Edwards clearly is on the RW and Dem PTB list based on tactics and rhetoric alone. Fellahs get a grip …doncha know Johnny’s Class War is a campain slogan to get elected? LOL.

As for the PTB, Yeh, you can easily make a seat at the private wealth management table if an interloper happens to elbow in but the class rhetoric alone is what marshalls the PTB against Edwards. This has nothing to do with substance, but its too blunt a tool for the PTB to abide…

From a PR perspective– that systemic, now-absurd-and-Official LYING Machine that has methodically and successfully morphed the horrifics of War Crimes to confound it with Patriotic Heroism in the minds of average American citizens….From THAT perspective, The RW MIC know they’re going to have to go with a little of the kinder, softer voice of pillage and plunder as they proceed with their plans for the rest of us peeps on the planet…
And voices only ,- they will be—
Adopted as readily and easily as one uses irony in writing..
They intend to use Hillary or McCain as their vehicle.

24. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

Oh and above,……. that systemic, now-absurd-and-Official LYING Machine that has methodically and successfully morphed the horrifics of War Crimes to confound it with Patriotic Heroism in the minds of average American citizens….

…Not that Patriotic Heroism isn’t ITSELF a creation of the Lying Machine..

25. marisacat - 30 December 2007

horrifics of War Crimes to confound it with Patriotic Heroism in the minds of average American citizens…. — BHHM

Bingo, the reason I did not vote for Kerry.

That war was wrong and cannot be made right, ever, to wash clean the new wars.

26. marisacat - 30 December 2007

NH Concord Monitor endorses Hillary………….

Whooop de doooooooooooooooooo….

I think they left out that she will send heat seeking, nuclear tipped missles to seak out anything stamped “Made in China” for the under 7 set.


27. Intermittent Bystander - 30 December 2007

Republiprank or Democard?
S.C. Republicans Get Phony Romney Card; Holiday Greeting Card Cites Controversial Passages From Book of Mormon

The card contains passages that underscore some differences between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and those of denominations that are prevalent in South Carolina.

“We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His first born, and another being upon the earth by whom he begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world,” reads one passage from Orson Pratt, cited on the card as an “original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.”

The card also cites a passage on Mary’s virgin birth that underscores her race. “And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.” On the card, “fair and white” are in a bolder, larger font and on a separate line.

Sort of a religious version of “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus,” ain’t it?

28. Intermittent Bystander - 30 December 2007

Bhutto son and hubby to co-lead Pakistan People’s Party, sez MSNBC.

“It has been decided that Bilawal will be the chairman and Mr (Asif Ali) Zardari will be co-chairman,” one of the party officials reportedly said in the southern town of Naudero, where top officials of Bhutto’s party were meeting.

29. marisacat - 30 December 2007


hmmm the kid, iirc is all of 19 or so.

Good luck to the Bhutto family! I mean, what is left to say………….



I saw that card somewhere (maybe CNN’s Political Ticker)…. very Hallmark, snowy and everything nice.


30. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Bingo, the reason I did not vote for Kerry.

That war was wrong and cannot be made right, ever, to wash clean the new wars.

Well, Kerry actually atoned for his sins by participating in the Vietnam Vets Against the War.

Then he took it back, denied one of the only two really decent things (the other being the investigation of the drug trading in Iran Contra) he did with his life.

Must suck to sell your soul for something you never even got.

31. Intermittent Bystander - 30 December 2007

Yes, the card sports a wintry view of the Boston Public Garden. (And a false “paid-for” notice implicating the Boston Mormon Temple.) Not sure why the tricksters emphasized “white” (as a potential problem in SC), unless the card was target-mailed to AA voters. . . .

32. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Huckabee’s on Meet the Press trying to pretend he knows about Pakistan. He’s pretty slick. Russert’s trying to trip him up and failing.

33. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

OK. Russert couldn’t lay a glove on Huckabee. Let’s see how he does with Obama.

34. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Obama is less smooth than Huckabee but so far he’s handling Russert pretty well.

These things are like job interviews. The point isn’t the bullshit question. It’s how you react when you’re asked a bullshit question.

Russert’s like the world’s ugliest HR specialist.

35. ms_xeno - 30 December 2007

Just for a lark, I share today’s post from the remainder bin>

On the minus side, the best bits were lifted from somebody else.

On the plus side, it has nothing to do with anyone’s fucking campaign.


36. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007
37. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Let’s try that again.


On a not unrelated note, the annual survey of worldwide privacy rights conducted by Privacy International and EPIC has been released for 2007, and the U.S. has been downgraded from “Extensive Surveillance Society” to “Endemic Surveillance Society,” the worst possible category there is for privacy protections, the category also occupied by countries such as China, Russia, Singapore and Malaysia. The survey uses a variety of objective factors to determine the extent of privacy protections citizens enjoy from their government, and the U.S. now finishes at the bottom for obvious reasons.

38. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

For some reason WordPress strips out the link.


Click on the “Leading surveillance societies in the EU and the World 2007” link.

That map just about says it all.

39. Miss Devore - 30 December 2007

{applause for BHHM} the camel bit was seamless.

40. marisacat - 30 December 2007

HCfM I had trouble with the link, but went to PI…

Which article did you mean?

41. marisacat - 30 December 2007


got it…


42. ms_xeno - 30 December 2007

HC, #30:

…Must suck to sell your soul for something you never even got…

But it’s justice after a fashion. Sort of like the hack who wrote that piece of shit book that became Forest Gump whining that Hollywood ripped him off. Awww… He hated the eeeeeeeevil libruls and then they made his fucked-up creation a household name but robbed him blind. Tsk tsk.

43. marisacat - 30 December 2007

hmm if you scroll down to the bottom this is the tick tock on the US:


No right to privacy in constitution, though search and seizure protections exist in 4th Amendment; case law on government searches has considered new technology

No comprehensive privacy law, many sectoral laws; though tort of privacy

FTC continues to give inadequate attention to privacy issues, though issued self-regulating privacy guidelines on advertising in 2007

State-level data breach legislation has proven to be useful in identifying faults in security

REAL-ID and biometric identification programs continue to spread without adequate oversight, research, and funding structures

Extensive data-sharing programs across federal government and with private sector

Spreading use of CCTV

Congress approved presidential program of spying on foreign communications over U.S. networks, e.g. Gmail, Hotmail, etc.; and now considering immunity for telephone companies, while government claims secrecy, thus barring any legal action

No data retention law as yet, but equally no data protection law

World leading in border surveillance, mandating trans-border data flows

Weak protections of financial and medical privacy; plans spread for ‘rings of steel’ around cities to monitor movements of individuals

Democratic safeguards tend to be strong but new Congress and political dynamics show that immigration and terrorism continue to leave politicians scared and without principle

Lack of action on data breach legislation on the federal level while REAL-ID is still compelled upon states has shown that states can make informed decisions

Recent news regarding FBI biometric database raises particular concerns as this could lead to the largest database of biometrics around the world that is not protected by strong privacy law

44. JJB - 30 December 2007

Everyone remember the brouhaha over Jamie Lynn Spears?

Well, more important events have driven that story off the radar recently, but it may soon may a comeback, because it now appears that the father of her baby may not be the Mississippi kid she met at church (apparently, they were never all that steady a couple and had broken off whatever relationship they had), but “a much older executive at her children’s TV show Zoey 101.” If that is indeed the case, this “much older executive” is in a hell of a lot of trouble, as he is definitely guilty of statutory rape.

And it’s quite possible the Spears family paid young Casey Aldridge to take the fall, figuring I suppose that publicity about puppy love is preferable to a real life Lolita/Humbert-Humbert relationship.

This doesn’t seem to have hit the news cycle in the US, but it’s going around in Canada and New Zealand media sources.

BTW, I wonder who those anonymous “two separate Spears family insiders” named in that linked article are? Maybe Big Sis is one?

45. marisacat - 30 December 2007

hmmm Wwonder if sumner redstone is choking on brunch

46. marisacat - 30 December 2007

hmm think the million dollar price tag for the baby pics just went out the door.

47. marisacat - 30 December 2007

And the conservatives go on dictating. BTW, don’t think Broder broke this, as I read reference to it, and a shorter list of names, at one of the political blogs. Might have been CNN’s Political Ticker…

This is from today’s ABC/The Note:

Mayor Bloomberg, I-N.Y., may really want to keep his job. But here comes the latest big hint that he’d be willing to trade up: Bloomberg “scheduled a meeting next week with a dozen leading Democrats and Republicans, who will join him in challenging the major-party contenders to spell out their plans for forming a ‘government of national unity’ to end the gridlock in Washington,” scoops David Broder in The Washington Post.

Those who will be at the Jan. 7 session at the University of Oklahoma say that if the likely nominees of the two parties do not pledge to ‘go beyond tokenism’ in building an administration that seeks national consensus, they will be prepared to back Bloomberg or someone else in a third-party campaign for president.”

Broder has the (hefty) names: “Conveners of the meeting include such prominent Democrats as former senators Sam Nunn (Ga.), Charles S. Robb (Va.) and David L. Boren (Okla.), and former presidential candidate Gary Hart. Republican organizers include Sen. Chuck Hagel (Neb.), former party chairman Bill Brock, former senator John Danforth (Mo.) and former New Jersey governor Christine Todd Whitman.”

Right, Danforth who shepherded that asshole Clarence Thomas thru the process. And the others. Right, they so want “consensus”.

Nunn, Robb and Boren. Conservatives. Hart, fucking devoid of air these days.


48. raincat100 - 30 December 2007

#5 marisacat

thank you!

49. marisacat - 30 December 2007

From The Note:


Right after Iowa, it’s on to New Hampshire. ABC News, Facebook and WMUR-TV are hosting back-to-back presidential debates at Saint Anselm College in Manchester, N.H., next Saturday, Jan. 5, 2008.

Republicans will debate from 7-8:30 pm ET and Democrats will follow from approximately 8:45-10:15 pm ET.

The two 90-minute debates, moderated by ABC’s Charlie Gibson with questions from WMUR anchor and political director Scott Spradling, will air in primetime on the ABC Television Network.

50. marisacat - 30 December 2007



51. NYCO - 30 December 2007

I’ve gotten through this entire election season without watching a single debate. complete waste of time.

52. NYCO - 30 December 2007

Bloomberg has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected to national office. He’s the mayor of New York City. This does not translate nationally. Never has, never will (why do you think Rudy clings so hard to 9/11?)

A mayor of NYC could not even get elected to be governor of New York State. (How come nobody ever notices this?) There’s a reason they tend not to even run.

And also, Bloomberg isn’t a conservative, but I think you all know that.

53. marisacat - 30 December 2007

well… i think the point is to be a credible threat, which need only equal spoiler.

i am just sick to death of the authoritarians. militarists. oh yes and assholes.

54. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

i am just sick to death of the authoritarians. militarists. oh yes and assholes.

Be glad you don’t live in New York and won’t get to see our next mayor.


55. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Everyone remember the brouhaha over Jamie Lynn Spears?

I was appalled when I found out Britney Spears had a sister. My first reaction was “oh no. Don’t do this to us again”.

56. NYCO - 30 December 2007

well… i think the point is to be a credible threat

Define “credible,” though. I mean, the news media thinks Jamie Lyn Spears’ pregnancy is a credible hard news story, but that doesn’t mean actual human beings do.

None of these people running for president in 2008 will have any actual powers should they be elected; the American presidency has been very much bled of credibility on the world stage. Barn door, escaped horses, etc.

57. marisacat - 30 December 2007

yes Guiliani and his brutal cops.

Timoney, Bratton, Kerik, Kelly and ones I am sure I don’t know about.

58. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Timoney, Bratton, Kerik, Kelly and ones I am sure I don’t know about.

Bruce Smolka

59. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007


One of the more widely seen videos in question is from a 2003 action at the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) against both the war and the government’s persecution of immigrations. Smolka can be seen toward the back with several other officers arresting a nonviolent Cynthia Greenberg. But after a moment of grabbing, Smolka clearly knees her in the face. As Greenberg is escorted past the camera, she shares, “One of the officers just called me a cunt and kicked me in the face,” before being hustled away. “He came over, cussed at me and screamed at me. After I fell over, he continued to cuss at me and kick me,” Greenberg, now 37, told The Indypendent. “What was so shocking about it was the police knew about us in advance; we were peacefully sitting there, they had complete control and then this happens.”

60. marisacat - 30 December 2007

credible in the sense of blowing an election. In the “wrong” way (not that I care, I am immune to the games). I don’t think we get a replay of Bill’s 42/43 with Perot acting as the draw from GHW.

AND I don’t think America cares, in the way electioneering pols prattle to the poeple, how the world sees her. The pre-eminent mil authority in the world. For now.

These people don’t think very far ahead.

But then again I don’t think the government mismanaged Iraq or got anything but what it wanted as the aftermath of Katrina/Rita.

61. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

Not sure if this is funny or really really bad

62. mattes - 30 December 2007

I found this interesting:

Bhutto wanted Israeli security

Slain Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto had tried to hire Israeli security personnel.

Relatives of Bhutto, who was assassinated last week in a shooting and bombing attack, had asked Israel to supply her with Shin Bet bodyguards, Ma’ariv reported Sunday.

The idea of supplying Bhutto with Israeli government agents was immediately ruled out in Jerusalem, which has no formal ties with Islamabad. But there were alternative proposals to put her in touch with private Israeli security companies or retired personnel from the Shin Bet or Mossad intelligence agencies.

“We could have been more sensitive and quicker, but we dragged our feet on this Bhutto issue, and that’s a shame,” Ma’ariv quoted an unnamed Israeli diplomatic official as saying.

Similar requests that Bhutto made to U.S. and British security agencies also went unmet.


63. mattes - 30 December 2007

….let’s hope Bush and Jed have better security when they visit Israel.

64. JJB - 30 December 2007

New video of the Bhutto assassination “throws into question the official version of how Pakistan’s Benazir Bhutto was killed; tape could further challenge the credibility of Musharraf government.”

Link is currently available at MSNBC. Haven’t seen it myself, will wait until morning.

65. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

???? Has anybody heard the BBC David Frost interview with Bhutto after Assassination Attempt #1 (Nov 2, 2007 Broadcast) in which Bhutto referred to one of three suspected individs as a Senior ex Mil in Pakistan’s ISI as having dealing with

…”Omar Sheik who murdered Osama Bin Laden….

Al Jazeeera has the full piece that appears unedited

[cue vid to 5:30 and the verbatim is at 6:12 — 6:16 –BHHM]
…There is a small firestorm burning on youtube now, noting that :

The BBC has since edited its piece available online right at the juncture of the tape where she speaks of Omar as having killed OBL.
[ ..about 5:00 on the BBC tape…]

Omar Sheik is the individ who Musharraf alleges in his book, In the Line of Fire, was recruited by MI6 out of the London School of Economics:

Background from Wiki
[hey, it’s quick, citations within their article-BHHM]

…..Forest School, Walthamstow, an independent school in North-East London, whose alumni include English cricket captain Nasser Hussain and Peter Greenaway, the filmmaker. Between the ages of 14 and 16 he attended school in Pakistan, where his family had relocated, before returning to the United Kingdom to continue at Forest School.[11] He told school friends that he had been in Pakistan learning about jihad, but was not believed. He was a fine chess-player and won a junior London championship. Later, he attended the London School of Economics, where he studied Applied Mathematics and Economics. At the LSE, he came under the influence of Islamic fundamentalists and was instrumental in recruiting students to the cause around London.

Kidnapping of American and British nationals, 1994

He served five years in prison in New Delhi in the 1990s in connection with the 1994 abduction of three British travellers, Myles Croston, 28, Paul Rideout, 26 and Rhys Partridge, 27, and one American, Béla Nuss, 43.[5]

Hijacking and Release from prison

In 1999, Indian Airlines Flight 814 was hijacked from Nepal .Its hijackers demanded his release along with Maulana Masood Azhar and Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar,who were leaders of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, to Pakistan.[11] The plane landed in Kandahar and Taliban militia surrounded the plane, pre-empting any Indian commando operation. After negotiations between the India government and the hijackers, the hostages were freed eight days after the hijacking occurred.Omar Sheikh along with the two other prisoners were released in exchange for the hostages.

Media descriptions

The Times describes Saeed Sheikh as “no ordinary terrorist but a man who has connections that reach high into Pakistan’s military and intelligence elite and into the innermost circles of Osama Bin Laden and the al-Qaeda organization.” According to ABC, Sheikh began working for Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence in 1993. By 1994 he was operating training camps in Afghanistan and had earned the title of bin Laden’s “special son.”[citation needed]

In May 2002, the Washington Post quotes an unnamed Pakistani as saying that the ISI paid Sheikh’s legal fees during his 1994 trial in India on charges of kidnap. However, this claim has not been confirmed by any other source.

US authorities have also named Saeed Sheikh as a key figure in the funding of the 9/11 attacks. [12]

Omar was Rearrested and ultimately convicted for the murder of Daniel Pearl in 2002 — hasn’t been executed pending appeal, legally based on Kahlid Sheik Mohammed’s CIA facilitated confession, the politics cited :: have him in the good graces of Pakistans ISI…He certainly must be in the good graces of SOMEONE..
A total wilderness of mirrors, though…

wants MushCo~

or BushCo = MushCo…

is but two possible straight razors among the many stilettos, shivs and shanks wielded among would-turned [sic] carvers…..

66. marisacat - 30 December 2007

… it was a dark and stormy night…

… she knew… too much……….

An Oriental Perils of Pauline.


67. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

Amazing how we here from OBL now right at the time of Bhutto’s death without reference to it…

AFP via Al Jezeera:

0:21 MECCA TIME, 21:21 GMT

Bin Laden warns against US ‘plots’
The latest recording accused the US of attempting to control Iraq’s oil [AFP]

Osama bin Laden has accused the US of plotting to take control of Iraq’s oil and urged Iraqis to reject efforts to rebuild a US-backed national unity government.

In a new audio recording, the al-Qaeda leader also threatened more attacks against Israel and to expand his group’s so-called holy war, or jihad, to Jerusalem and Palestine.

The authenticity of the tape could not be verified.

68. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

An Oriental Perils of Pauline.

Islamofascist style?

69. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

I find it remarkable because for whatever she was, Bhutto was hardly imprecise in her command of the English Language….

70. marisacat - 30 December 2007

LOL somebody’s style.

I see reports that the kid, the new chairman of the party, is heading back to school.

Whta a mess…

71. marisacat - 30 December 2007


oh no, she spoke very precise English.

72. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

So whats your read on it?

73. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

it was a dark and stormy night…

… she knew… too much……….

I don’t know. If I knew who killed Bin Laden, I’d have 20 copies of the documentation stashed in various safe deposit boxes in various places in the world with instructions to have them opened in the event of my murder. Then I’d let anybody I thought was trying to kill me know I had them.

74. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

I’d have 20 copies of the documentation stashed in various safe deposit boxes in various places in the world with instructions to have them opened in the event of my murder. Then I’d let anybody I thought was trying to kill me know I had them.

Tom Cruise in the Firm.

LOL. Sorry couldn’t resist.

75. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

Tomnazir Cruizutto.

76. marisacat - 30 December 2007

ny take?

Oh too murky for me to sort out. And it is my contention that depending on shifting interests we can cut and run on anyone, betray anyone.

On thing that was sad in one of the Tariq Ali pieces, think in the post assassintation one, in the Guardian, he remembered many years ago when they were more or lss on the same side. Not that it lasted long.

As for Osama… well what do we know. We get what we are fed. I suppose he could be dead, and Zawahiri keeping the illusion going… but some tapes do seem up to date (thinking in particular of the one released right before voting in 04]. This one could have been taped right before she died.

Taped, recorded, whatever the language.

Mostly I think we are in a fog, lied to within, lied to without …. I don’t see anyway out.

77. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

As for Osama… well what do we know. We get what we are fed. I suppose he could be dead, and Zawahiri keeping the illusion going

The problem is that if Osama is dead it’s in the interests of both the Bush administration and Zawahiri to keep it quiet.

I SUPPOSE that if the Republicans really want to win in 2008 and Osama’s dead we might find out about it.

78. Miss Devore - 30 December 2007

She meant to say Barack Obama. (Mark Penn did the Benazir Bhutto political makeover.)

She died so Hillary could win Iowa!

79. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

I don’t know if Hillary would be ruthless enough to do that. But the typical pro-Edwards diarist on the Daily Kos would probably kill gandhi if they thought it would help Breck Girl win.

80. marisacat - 30 December 2007

well, it certainly has seemed to appear that this country has had no desire to kill Osama. Not for many years.

No reason for me to believe Mr Bill either, his stories, always told with a finger pointed at the questioner, whoever it may be..

All cut from the same cloth.

And the country seems stuck in the old demonisation games, hype for war, war waged, plunder pillage rape.

There is no desire to end it. The real anti war, or even anti this war is so small. So easily lied to (an opinion piece in the Wapo has even more slobber love for Obama, from conservatives. Oh he is so anti war, right!) And the body count for December is 21.

It went from being a “tolerable little war” to now incredibly low cost in lives. I used to wonder why they did not manage the KIA count better to shut up the naysayers at home. Likely they enjoyed the anti war rattles and weeps.

More fun that way.

81. marisacat - 30 December 2007

typical pro-Edwards diarist

I find all the partisans, all sides, nutty as dead fruitcakes.

82. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

Mostly I think we are in a fog, lied to within, lied to without …. I don’t see anyway out.

So true and me neither. I don’t begrudge those looking, not for their looking’s sake, its the denial that we are, in fact, LOST thats the WTF…

It’s the same Messianic Dependency whether its in the DP looking for a Saviour or the Goopers looking for a Conquerer. Of course the Partisans are Bi in their ChristoFascist complexes…

83. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

LOL Hair Club # 79 😀

the typical pro-Edwards diarist on the Daily Kos would probably kill gandhi if they thought it would help Breck Girl win.

84. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

About the only inescapable facts about Bin Laden I see is that he was gainfully employed by the CIA in an endeavor to block Russian interests in the Region and Poppa Bin Laden made a whole shitload of dough from Saud.

85. marisacat - 30 December 2007

I see I still had the Wapo opinion piece open, it is not a pro Obama scribble, it is arms in the air in horror… and does not have the hackneyed genuflection to Hillary at the end (tho the writer may be pro Hillary, hard to say – and I don’t agree with the author’s quick shorthands on FP, at all).

I just dragged my chin back up off the floor at the Dominique Moisi quote… he is such a perfumed pet of the neocons. And there is one from love bug sully that is the equal.

Or, in the words of the French foreign policy analyst Dominique Moisi, “The very moment he appears on the world’s television screens, victorious and smiling, America’s image and soft power would experience something like a Copernican revolution.”

86. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

About the only inescapable facts about Bin Laden I see is that he was gainfully employed by the CIA in an endeavor to block Russian interests in the Region and Poppa Bin Laden made a whole shitload of dough from Saud.

According to Robert Wright, Bin Laden got into the game in Afghanistan around 1985. He participated in a few large battles with the Soviets at teh very end fo the conflict but he not really that important as far as the guerilla war went.

Bin Laden himself (according to Robert Fisk and Peter Bergen) denies getting American help but that’s what he’d obviously have to say to maintain his Muslim street cred. And of course he could have gotten it through the Pakistanis without knowing it originally came from the USA.

But I don’t think anybody really knows how closely he ever worked with the CIA.

87. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

BTW, no Frank Rich column in this weeks NY Times. Did Hillary and Edwards partisans have him whacked?

88. Hair Club for Men - 30 December 2007

LOL Hair Club # 79 the typical pro-Edwards diarist on the Daily Kos would probably kill gandhi if they thought it would help Breck Girl win.

What position would you rather find yourself in?

1.) Strapped to a white chair while a group of Islamic fundies is breaking out the knives and the videocam

2.) A party full of pro-Edwards Kosswacks where you get a little tipsy and accidently let it slip that you don’t especially like Elizabeth Edwards

89. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

What position would you rather find yourself in?
It would, of course, depend on the hors d’oeuvres and whether it was an open or cash bar – but with their new slogan

“Putting the FUN in Islamic Fundamentalism,

…You might have a chance with the first group….LOL

90. marisacat - 30 December 2007

hmm can’t remember wehre I read it, maybe Ben Smith at Politico, but Daniel Pipes appears to be readying the slur and slams that use the word “muslim” should obamama win, or be on the ticket.

91. BooHooHooMan - 30 December 2007

Pipes, among Zionist assholes, is world class…

92. marisacat - 30 December 2007

agree on Pipes. When he appears on TV I get so agitated that I get up and walk out of the room, inside my own house. I literally forget I can change the channel.


BTW, Clemons at The Washington Note has a post up on Ron Paul soliciting Dems in Iowa.

I think it is screamingly funny. So called Democrats who would support a man who luvs luvs luvs the TX Republican party platform.

But by all means let’s stop the war that will not stop.

93. marisacat - 30 December 2007

here is the link to the Ben Smith post at politico.com on Pipes/Obamama/muslim smear.

94. marisacat - 31 December 2007
95. Gibberish Bombast and Bullshit… « Marisacat - 31 December 2007

[…] IOZ read the Reza Aslan opinion piece in the Wapo too. […]

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