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Palmettos a Go Go…. 24 January 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.

  Sebastian FL 

Florida palmettos… as if it matters.  Looks like the “front runners” are gonna lay waste to the South, thru FL (not in contest!, they swear!) then thru the 22 state blow out.  Sherman’s March to the sea ain’t got nothin’ on this pair!

oh yum.



1. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Dan Abrams made a good point about John Gibson. He’s one step from being Fred Phelps. No, actually he is Fred Phelps. The Chopin funeral march on the organ is something you’d hear when you open a Fred Phelps site.

2. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

I don’t know if I want to get into full on liberal outrage mode against Fox News along with Media Matters but Abrams is right.

And it’s worse than Imus in some ways.

3. marisacat - 24 January 2008

I am probably late with this.. I see NYT has endorsed HIllary and McCain.

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 January 2008

I see NYT has endorsed HIllary and McCain.

all feels so pre-ordained, don’t it?

5. Miss Devore - 24 January 2008

if you can’t be “for” anything, be against “pre-ordination”

what it boils down to for me.

6. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Only Ron Paul gets a gold star for the Iraq war answer.

7. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

This debate needs some excitement. Streaker!

8. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Look at all of the recs this Kucinich impeachment diary has. Yet it’s already fallen off the list. What bullshit.

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 January 2008

In honor of “High Fidelity”, which I just stumbled across on cable:


1 – NAFTA etc
2 – Welfare “reform”
3 – Failure to enact a “peace dividend” after the collapse of the Soviet Union
4 – embrace of religious fundamentalism
5 – Failure to punish and expose Iran/Contra and all of the winger crimes that grow from that subversion of constitutional order.

10. cad - 24 January 2008

Kos must be pissed. Minion Trapper John and the Kos Kidz got smacked a lot in that FU goodbye post to Kucinich:

Stardust and UFOs (0 / 0)

He never did go blathering about stardust and UFOs.

The UFO comment was from abook by Shirley MacLaine, a friend of Kucinich’s and discussed an incident years in the past. It was talked about more by everyone else than it was by Kucinich.

Ditto with the stardust. That was from a speech at the Praxis Peace Institute in 2002 where he was waxing “poetical” about the Eagle Nebula, spirituality, and the meaning of life. Yet it gets repeated over and over because people like Kos think it sounds kookier than, say, a story about some knocked-up girl in Israel 2000 years ago.

These kinds of things get collected intooppo web sites and regurgitated over and over. I’m sure they’ll have Obama’s “Reagan” moment and Clinton’s “LBJ trumps MLK” for years, there just won’t be as many people to argue the other side. After all, they’re not as freaky as Kucinich.

It’s hardly his fault that he’s the only candidate talking about universal health care. Nothing’s stopping anyone else from doing it, aside from the big, fat checks they get from people opposed to it. The fact that so many people are willing to toss Kucinich overboard — and even just keep him off the stage — because they’d rather support people with crappy policies who aren’t uncool is the really pathetic thing.

I think there will be a staggering loss of human life out of all proportion to the stakes involved… Sen. George McGovern, March 1965

by darrelplant on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:54:56 PM PST


11. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

McCain to Huck: How exactly did you cook up those squirrels in that popcorn popper? Got a recipe?

12. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

I have a question for these asses: Considering what just happened on the border between Gaza and Egypt, what was that shit about a wall on the southern US border again?

13. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

How do they plan to pay for all of these tax cuts and what’s Bush using to pay for his so-called stimulus package?

14. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

McCain repeats his list of peeps again. “I have people!”

15. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

McCain: I was there when the very first US dollar was printed. Top that!

16. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

There’s been talk about banning handguns in Canada. I’m sure there’d be riots in the US if that was proposed.

17. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Most boring debate ever.

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 January 2008

thanx so much for the darrelplant bit …

19. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 January 2008

Most boring debate ever

wow, you’re actually trying to WATCH it?!?!

20. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

The debate of the foutards.

21. BooHooHooMan - 24 January 2008

Q: “Mayor Guiliani, Why you the sucky?”

22. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

McCain says he’s for keeping Israel “independent”.

I wonder what that’s code for?

23. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Or…Rudy, wtf are you still doing here?

24. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

I wonder what that’s code for?


25. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Ronald Reagan. Drink!

26. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Or…Rudy, wtf are you still doing here?

If Rudy answered honestly it would be:

Look. You people in the media got all hard and wet for me after 9/11 and you built up my ego to the point where I actually thought I could be president. Now I’m beginning to realize I believed my own hype and McCain and Romney and even the Squirrel Eater and Even Ron Paul (who isn’t even getting asked any questions tonight) are kicking my ass all over the country. I guess I’m just going to have to go back to New York and kick a homeless veteran or something to make myself feel better.

27. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Show me the money, Mitt!

28. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Romney’s getting like 99 percent of the air time.

29. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Should I really continue to argue with Denali at PFF? Or should I just call the SPLC?


I’m white, 100% pure German. (0.00 / 0)
My father never left the fatherland.

30. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Dr Paul: Why do you hate old people?

31. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

The Huckabee aw shucks humor is getting old.

32. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Romney gets more air time.

33. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

What $12 trillion that’s “parked offshore”?

34. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

29. He’s a lost cause.

35. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

What $12 trillion that’s “parked offshore”?

Romney’s yacht?

36. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Change the retirement age to what? 85?

37. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Romney’s yacht?

lol…in which he’ll be riding off into the sunset…

38. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Rudy gets an immigration question.

Come on. THIS IS BORING. Let’s at least have some Castro bashing and some fireworks between Paul and McCain.

Or let’s at least ask Huckabee about the Rapture.

Or something.

39. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

The Cuba question.

40. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Wow. They lobbed a softball on Cuba.

“Fleeing Hugo Chavez”.

Uh. Last time I checked the only immigrant fleeing Hugo Chavez was Jorge Poseda.

41. BooHooHooMan - 24 January 2008

Pumkinhead just stepped in to bail Rudy out with a softball question on Cuban Immigration.

42. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Mayor Jolly? lol

43. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

These guys are even pathetic as fascists. I”m thinking they’ve just thrown in the towel on this one until they can run Petreaus in 2012.

44. BooHooHooMan - 24 January 2008

LOL at the NYT on Rudy.

45. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Softball on the NY Times question. They should have quoted Wayne Barrett on what an incompetant fuckup Rudy was on 9/11.

46. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Maybe Michael Moore could streak in front of the cameras with a “Stupid White Men” sign and an arrow pointing at the stage.

47. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

You tell ’em Ron. Your party sucks!

48. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

This Republican field is so weak and Hillary seems so certain to win that it’s getting me worried.

Are they planning a terrorist attack and a coup in 2009?

49. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Obama Spam from Michelle:

We expected that Bill Clinton would tout his record from the nineties and talk about Hillary’s role in his past success. That’s a fair approach and a challenge we are prepared to face.

What we didn’t expect, at least not from our fellow Democrats, are the win-at-all-costs tactics we’ve seen recently. We didn’t expect misleading accusations that willfully distort Barack’s record.

Barack Obama isn’t relying on a former President of the United States to campaign for him.

50. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

49. What we didn’t expect, at least not from our fellow Democrats, are the win-at-all-costs tactics we’ve seen recently.

Maybe Obama should have a little talk with the Huckster. How could they not have expected this?

51. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

I missed that that was from Michelle. So she’s taking Bill on now too? Even more fun but they really need to get off of this “poor me” victim crap.

52. CSTAR - 24 January 2008

The Cuba Question? Where’s Cuba?

53. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

What kind of 2nd amendment case are the Supremes considering?

54. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

It strikes me that Petreaus is a bit like this guy.


Right now both the Democrats and Republicans lack legitimacy in the eyes of the American people. Only the military has fans in both parties. I don’t know if American history and tradition makes it easy for a military coup but if this were another country it would be obvious that’s what was coming.

It’s the classic historical circumstances for a military coup.

55. marisacat - 24 January 2008

Chalmers Johnson said in interview about a year and half ago on C-Span with Brian Lamb that he assumes the mil, members of it, have discussed a coup. As they have in the past, he added – forget the exact wording.

Lamb sorta took it in, asked a couple of low key questions and kept moving. I did see Lamb play it for the wife of Robert Kagen, she is a diplomat to NATO, iirc. She nearly blew a gasket.

Last year, I posted it at the time, Gallup ran a poll about institutions, the mil was the highest approval )out of 16 polled) with the American people.

Might not take long for something to happen, but generals in charge never do all that well. Then again, the whole concept of government and citizenship is utterly fucked. WHo knows. Big holes in their concepts of how you do things outside the Mil but the us human stock is rather devalued these days, it seems to me..

But hey, whatever comes. I really have given up…

56. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

There won’t be a coup as long as military leaders are government sockpuppets/spokespuppets and the current bunch of them are definitely that. Bush as the commander-in-chief of any outfit is an obscene joke.

57. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Chalmers Johnson said in interview about a year and half ago on C-Span with Brian Lamb that he assumes the mil, members of it, have discussed a coup.

What would make it difficult is the size of the USA. Also, both parties will essentially give the military what they want anyway and the Consitution’s been effectively repealed.

It seems to me that the historical conditions in the classic Marxist sense are perfect for a coup but the peculiarities of American culture make it unlikely.

58. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

Catnip. You can take over the Denali gig on PFF. I’ve given up arguing with him. I wonder where he gets his sheets laundered. That cross residue must be a bitch to get out after burnings.

59. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

You can take over the Denali gig on PFF.

No thanks. He keeps insisting he’s not a racist in the same posts that he writes racist crap (not to mention that he’s also bigoted against Muslims). Not going to waste my time with him. What’s the point?

60. James - 24 January 2008

John Aravosis is quite deserving of the honor “Elitist Wanker of the Day.”

Ah, so many wankers, so little time.

61. bayprairie - 24 January 2008

I assume that he’ll (Kuch) win (6+ / 0-)

But he’s smart to focus on getting reelected, rather than paying for pointless recounts that might trivialize future episodes of genuine election fraud.

by Trapper John on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:07:10 PM PST

thats pretty goddang laughable coming from a frontpager for a site that trivializes past episodes of genuine election fraud.

guess he didn’t examine his illogic all that closely after pulling it out of his ass.

62. marisacat - 24 January 2008

well frankly between military, corporatism, and Israel I feel we have already had it – a coup…. The mil was moved into NO as tho to a war zone.

But I am sure there are a few things a full fledged but not necessarily visible take over would still like to pin down.

Yo uknow The Family, which Sharlet and Clarkson did a diary that it is indefensible that Hillary will nt discuss nor acknowlege her deep ties with thsi organsiation… The Family reveres all mass leaders, including Hitler, and Osama. AND Jesus.

There are entities that want more ocmplete power. That just seems natural, they get it with the right person in power.

Then again I took aspects of Manchurian Candidate very seriously. And disliked that SInatra shut of off from distribution for 40 some odd years. That was highly dramatised, when I read of conspiracies or projections of complex putsch, I just whip out the hottest, most imflammatory stuff and look at the bones.

63. bayprairie - 24 January 2008

Catnip. You can take over the Denali gig on PFF. I’ve given up arguing with him. I wonder where he gets his sheets laundered.

he gets his sheets laundered in houston texas.


64. CSTAR - 24 January 2008

A coup isn’t out of the question, but I wouldn’t imagine a military coup with tanks surrounding congress. The image would be too jarring and far too difficult to spin favorably. I think more likely would be a civilian coup (a la Fujimori) resulting from a (fake) constitutional or institutional crisis. I can visualize Cheney “temporarily” expanding surveillance and cancelling the general election to protect its integrity after the “discovery” of a terrorist plot. And the next day you would have Brit Hume with smiling Bill Kristol saying that he doesn’t buy the argument of critics who say the measures are a coup.

I really share HCfM’s concern: who are the Repubs going to field?

65. CSTAR - 24 January 2008

Re #62 Who knows,you may be right, for all intents and purposes the coup may have already happened.

66. marisacat - 24 January 2008


yeah Aravosis is an asshole. My guess, eh votes for McCain. IIRC his back ground is as an R aide on the hill and of course clearly and opertive.

And a fucking whiner.

Th I don’t think it is a very good package… for different reasons.

67. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

John Aravosis is quite deserving of the honor “Elitist Wanker of the Day.”

No doubt. Wow.

68. marisacat - 24 January 2008


well that was my old line thru BushCo, we had had a coup… and the Dems were in collapse. “Post coup and post collapse”

I DO feel they go in, one for their own time at the trough for thievery, but also to get some things done, with a different face.

They are desperate to cut all ties to any idea of anti war, war oppsotion. Think it could get a lot bloodier, or set us up for draft and whatever else.

And of course the endgame is privatisation. Cut entitlements to all people, across the board.

69. bayprairie - 24 January 2008

#60. agreed. i just read the diatribe. what a classless clown that boyo is.

70. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Northern U.S. politicians call border rules ‘irresponsible’

OTTAWA — More than 30 members of the U.S. House of Representatives have condemned plans by the Department of Homeland Security to institute new identity requirements next week for Canadians and Americans entering the country by land or sea.

In a letter Thursday to Michael Chertoff, secretary for homeland security, a bipartisan group of politicians from northern U.S. states calls the plans “simply irresponsible.”

“These ill-conceived and unnecessarily cumbersome travel requirements will have a deleterious effect on our nation’s weakening economy and will adversely affect the economies of the border communities,” the letter says.

The new rules, which take effect Jan. 31, apply to Canadians and Americans who enter the U.S. at land crossings or sea ports and are expected to worsen delays along the border.

Unless they have a passport or trusted traveller card, such as NEXUS, those 19 and older will have to show two documents — a driver’s licence or other government-issued photo ID, and a birth certificate or citizenship card. For those 18 and younger, proof of citizenship will be required, but not photo ID. Rules for those entering Canada won’t change.

Canadians and Americans can now enter the U.S. at border crossings by presenting a driver’s licence or making a verbal declaration of their citizenship.

Last year, there were 72 million crossings at the Canada-U.S. border. As part of its post-9-11 Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), the Bush administration had planned to require all visitors to the U.S. to show passports, starting this month. But politicians from border states strenuously objected, arguing that the passport requirement is premature.

Last month, Congress passed legislation delaying implementation until June 1, 2009, at the earliest.

Chertoff is such a wanker.

The Department of Homeland Security says more than 31,000 people have tried to enter the U.S. over the past three years by falsely claiming to be U.S. citizens, including 1,517 in the last three months of 2007. It did not say how many were caught on the Canada-U.S. border, however.

71. marisacat - 24 January 2008

well I have read statistics on teh sheer BUSINESS of crossing every day from Canada to the USA.

What a mess.

Meanwhile Europe relaxes borders. Speeds up the flow of people.

72. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

What a mess.

It’s a huge mess. I can’t remember the exact percentage but a huge number of Canadians live close to the US border and that means major bucks for both countries in terms of trade and commerce. Every time this issue comes up, the border hawks bring up the Millennium bomber – one guy – years ago. As if that’s the be all and end all of the argument.

73. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Here it is: About three-quarters of Canada’s population lives within 150 kilometres (90 mi) of the US border.

74. marisacat - 24 January 2008

I never go to Americblog… cuz Aravosis is such a shit but I see now he has Chevron ad too, and a banner ad for credit cards.


Lotta right wing money runs the [so called] Big Blahgs. And the authoritarian pipsqueaks that front for that money. IMO.

75. supervixen - 24 January 2008


That’s because far too often the Democrats don’t give a damn about anybody who isn’t a minority or starving to death (both valid causes to be sure, but are they the ONLY causes out there?).

Gotta laff at that. Aravosis the “gay activist” is complaining about MINORITIES? All of a sudden gays aren’t minorities anymore? Nope not if they’re white males and well-off. Well, Aravosis hit it right there.

76. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

75. Maybe he should take a realistic look at how little the Dems have done for minorities and the starving.

“valid causes” – what an asshole. Can he be any more condescending?

77. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Immigration officials detaining, deporting American citizens

Quite the story. And this is the most bizarre part: “Even now, the prison records inaccurately show his current location as “the Soviet Union.”

I guess that prison must be deprived of those “map” things that Miss SC Teen was talking about last year. Such as.

I wonder if she’s campaigning for anyone in her home state. (Please let it be Huckabee.)

78. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

That’s because far too often the Democrats don’t give a damn about anybody who isn’t a minority or starving to death (both valid causes to be sure, but are they the ONLY causes out there?).

This is satire right?

79. Hair Club for Men - 24 January 2008

A video of Aravosis getting out of his carriage.

80. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Iraq seeks sharp reduction in U.S. military role

Don’t get too excited. It’s not like they’re going home any time soon.

BAGHDAD – The United States and Iraq will soon begin negotiating a power shift for U.S. forces, nearly five years after they invaded Iraq and installed a new government, Iraqi and U.S. officials told NBC News on Thursday.

Both countries are working on assembling negotiating teams to shape a new long-term bilateral strategic agreement redefining the fundamental role of U.S. troops, whose mission would shift from combat operations to logistics and support, the officials told NBC News’ Richard Engel.

But when NATO countries want to make that shift in Afghanistan, who is it that starts yelling at them again? Oh yeah. The US.


…a senior member of the Iraqi negotiating team, which has been almost completely appointed, said they would seek to have U.S. troops — who for five years have conducted aggressive combat missions across the country against al-Qaida and other radical Muslim militias — largely confined to their bases.

U.S. troops would have only limited freedom of movement off base under Iraq’s position, leaving only when requested to provide intelligence, air support, equipment and other logistical support, the Iraqi negotiator said.

So, that’s what Bush wants to leave the Dems with and I doubt there will be much any of them can (or will) do about it despite their cries of “no permanent bases”.

81. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

What a joke:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Paul Wolfowitz, an architect of the Iraq war who was forced to resign from the World Bank because of an ethics scandal, will chair a U.S. advisory panel on arms control, the State Department said on Thursday.

The former deputy secretary of defense and advocate of the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq will head the State Department’s International Security Advisory Board, which gives the department independent advice on arms control, disarmament, international security and other matters.

Just ship the wanker off with a medal somewhere before he screws up more of the world.

82. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008

Lying Gates

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The United States has no interest in setting up permanent bases in Iraq, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday, playing down concerns raised by negotiations on the future US military presence in Iraq.

Democratic critics have expressed fears that a planned “Status of Forces Agreement” (SOFA) with Iraq will tie the hands of future US presidents by committing the United States to a long-term military presence.

But Gates said, “I think it is pretty clear that such an agreement would not talk about force levels. It would not involve — we have no interest in permanent bases,” he told reporters.

“I think the way to think about the framework agreement is an approach to normalizing the relationship between the United States and Iraq,” he added.

Yeah. That’s the way to think about it in propaganda-speak.

The lie. See above.

Gates insisted discussions on the SOFA have barely begun and it is not yet clear what form it will take.

“I do know that there’s a strong commitment inside the administration to consult very closely with the Congress on this,” Gates said.

“But, you know, without any idea of what the form of an agreement is going to be right now, I think it’s premature to talk about congressional agreement or executive agreement. I think we just don’t know,” he said.

Well, apparently the Iraqis seem to know exactly what you want, Gates.

83. liberalcatnip - 24 January 2008
84. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

“pfffft” headline of the nite goes to ABC News: GOP Debate: Not Quite a Smoka in Boca.

And to think they actually pay people to come up with shit like that.

85. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

3 Bill Clinton hit diaries on the dkos rec list. Popcorn!

86. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

dkos debate poll. Guess who’s missing?


Who won?

21% 427 votes
54% 1092 votes
18% 369 votes
6% 133 votes

| 2022 votes | Vote

They disappeared Ron Paul. Aren’t they the ones who were crying foul over CNN leaving Edwards out of a poll?

87. marisacat - 25 January 2008
88. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008


The economy is tanking, the war is dragging, the country’s international reputation is in tatters and the inability of Congress or the White House to do anything about it has given rise to despondency.

No need to wonder why Afghanistan is called the forgotten war.

And I’d say it’s the unwillingness not an “inability” of congress that’s the problem.

89. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

But I do agree with this:

While the Democratic Party’s interests may at times coincide with that of the American people, they are clearly not synonymous. The party’s raison d’être is to win elections, not to change America. Depending on the time, place and candidate, it may well stand for office but little else.

Which explains why kos can push “winning” without giving much of a damn about the issues. Hollow, hollow “victories”.

90. JJB - 25 January 2008

liberalcatnip, no. 13,

How do they plan to pay for all of these tax cuts and what’s Bush using to pay for his so-called stimulus package?

With Free Money®, of course! It’s been the center of every GOP economic plan since 1980.

91. JJB - 25 January 2008

liberalcatnip, no. 53,

I believe the relevant 2nd Amendment case is Washington, DC’s ban on gun ownership.

92. marisacat - 25 January 2008

Jake Tapper… and you have to wonder:

[“W]here’s the outrage?” as Bob Dole once said.

Speaking of Dole’s outrage, is anyone else amazed at how Camp Obama has let Team Clinton introduce “Rezko” into the political lexicon?

The issue is legit – but what’s amazing is to watch the Clintons making insinuations about shady land deals and questionable characters. The Clintons!

Am I the only American left who remembers the campaign finance scandals of the 1990s? Marc Rich? Johnny Chung?

Didn’t the Clinton campaign recently have to return close to a million dollars tied to Norman Hsu?

And I can’t be certain but I’m fairly sure I remember reading something about someone being impeached?

Man, they must be giggling at HRC HQ.

Do they not have Google in Chicago?

93. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

I believe the relevant 2nd Amendment case is Washington, DC’s ban on gun ownership.

Okay. Thanks. I didn’t know that was going to the supreme court.

Yes, Free Money. What a concept. 🙂

94. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

A Rezko-Clinton Connection?

And a pic for evidence.

“I don’t know the man,” Mrs. Clinton told Mr. Lauer. “I wouldn’t know him if he walked in the door. I don’t have a 17-year relationship with him.”

She added: “There’s a big difference between standing somewhere taking a picture with someone you don’t know and haven’t seen since, and having a relationship that the newspapers in Chicago have been exploring.”

Round and round it goes. Where it stops, nobody knows.

95. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

Dems in SC: Zogby

Obama: 38%
Clinton: 25%
Edwards: 21%

Edwards up 6 points in the past 2 days. It could still be a horse race.

96. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

As for Bill’s shenanigans:

In case you were wondering about the effectiveness of former President Clinton’s campaign work on behalf of his wife, here is an indication: South Carolina Democrats hold an overwhelmingly positive view of Bill Clinton – yesterday’s polling alone shows he has a 75% favorable rating, compared to just 20% who hold an unfavorable view of him.

97. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008
98. marisacat - 25 January 2008

McClatchy poll of a couple days ago showed the smallest spread… about 9 pts. Rasmussen and one other had about 15 pt spread.

I am sure that the Clintons feel they are seeing results on the ground for what they are doing.

ANd I don’t see any really effective pushback, certainly not from the OBamas nor from the surrogates. They cannot NOT have speculated this would happen, at some point.

It is interesting to watch, that is for sure…

99. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

From the BBC blog

Following on from what we might call the “Dick Morris thesis” on race and the Obama campaign I pass on something that the Obama folk are peddling down here in South Carolina, or more precisely will be peddling after a win which is then characterised as a win “wholly due to black voters turning out for the black candidate”. First they will call this a form of racism (do black voters not count?) and secondly according to the document I have seen:

“The fact of the matter is that blacks represent potentially pivotal blocs of voters in most battleground states in November – including Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Arkansas, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Virginia and even Nevada. Obama’s ability to inspire and mobilize black voters could easily prove instrumental in swinging those competitive states to the Democratic column in November. Indeed, in Nevada where blacks are about 6% of the voting age population, with Obama on the ballot they comprised fully 15% of the caucus electorate according to the Entrance Poll -proof that he can bring them out beyond their numbers or past participation.”

All of that is fair enough, I suppose, expect that Hillary Clinton’s special appeal to Latino voters might rather counterbalance it. Although black people have been more reliable voters in the past? The subject is now much discussed both sides of the Atlantic with the Times of London taking a sceptical view

For the record I asked Obama – during a campaign stop here – if he accepted that the media gave him an easier ride that they did the Clintons. He laughed. He claimed it wasn’t true. But he went on to call the press “the referee”.

I have never heard a politician do that unless he thought the referee was making the right decision…

100. BooHooHooMan - 25 January 2008

Re Zogby in SC, 38/35/21 – Obama/Clinton/Edwards

Sounds about right to me , no doubt some opportunistic Obam supporters swimmin back to Hill, Edwards support seems over rated but I bet he’s picking up in The White Male component of the Victim Trilogy. LOL. Zogby called Nevada well enough with his day before there.

Re Clintons and Rezco, hell Clintons and Hsu , Clintons and Lerach,
Clintons and ______.

We all agree this is going to be a negative campaign, right?
Aside from the issues, – which afterall is ground rule #1 in American Politics, all issues aside,–Anyways, re Clinton v. McCain, who has higher personal negatives and who is easier to go negative on?? About the only difference the Clintons possess over Kerry or Gore or Dukakis is there willingness to go Negative now….. But actually, in McCain – they have a more difficult target.

If you think you heard Edwards millworkers son shtick alot- become ONE with the McCain Lying in the Hanoi Hilton(c) clip…Insanely, in a nation fucked up and fucked over by economic elites and the political courtesans who serve them, we now face some weird sort of electoral mashup whereby Munchaussen’s meets Stockholm Syndrome in the Battle for Victimology Supremacy.

101. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

Clinton seeks to smooth relations with Obama

For now…attack, retreat. Lather, rinse, repeat.

102. marisacat - 25 January 2008

The problem with running against mcCain is that he has built up a huge myth with non-military, with a blubbery sort who like to be patriotic, whatever that is these days – or earlier days for that matter… and the military who see thru him and are sick of him and know how little he has done for them, over the years… won’t speak publicly against him.


103. marisacat - 25 January 2008

Just stumbled on this, not sure it is has gotten around, Dahr Jamail interview with media bite:

MB: You have commented before that the anti-war movement cannot choose ‘what is or isn’t the legitimate resistance’, just as they couldn’t or didn’t stop the war. Are the calls for a more ‘acceptable’ resistence by some in the anti-war movement the result of our insulated realisation of war itself, detachment through TV? [11]

DJ: I think that is likely. That, coupled with a lack of imagination. What I mean by that is most people here in the U.S. have no idea what war looks, feels, smells, tastes, or looks like. And certainly not this occupation of Iraq. Thus, they haven’t an idea of how brutal the occupation is, what U.S. troops and mercenaries are doing to Iraqis on a daily basis, and how they (Americans) might react if they were in the Iraqis’ shoes.

It doesn’t take much imagination to ponder the question, if my country were invaded illegally, my neighbours killed, my son taken from my home and put in a prison where we all knew people were being tortured horribly, my city destroyed, the economy of my country eviscerated, illegal weapons used on my countrymen, might I take up arms against the occupier?

But, apparently, most Americans won’t consider this. Thus they fail to understand the Iraqi resistance, and some of the tactics being used against the occupiers.

104. marisacat - 25 January 2008

From TPM EC:

Report: Florida Sen. Bill Nelson Will Endorse Hillary

By Eric Kleefeld – January 25, 2008, 6:03PM

The Huffington Post reports that Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL), the top elected Democrat in the Sunshine State, will endorse Hillary Clinton for president.

Nelson’s endorsement probably has something to do with Hillary’s newly-announced support for seating the state’s delegates, which were taken away by the Democratic National Committee because of the state’s rogue primary. Nelson has become champion of the early Florida primary, even unsuccessfully suing the DNC in federal court to have the delegates restored.

Late Update: Nelson put out a press release earlier today, lauding Hillary for her position on seating the Florida delegates. The statement is available after the jump.

Read more »

105. BooHooHooMan - 25 January 2008

The problem with running against McCain is that he has built up a huge myth with non-military, with a blubbery sort …..-mcat

I agree with the appeal to armchair tank commanders and other assorted flounders and “attaboys” hangin around every VFW and Foreign Legion Post in the Country. He’s not a wortwhile protest vote on SO many counts:::: Roe, Iraq, the Zionist and fundie ass kissery, yet he will get a good bit of swing vote…

It is an increasingly Democratic Senate that holds the fate of SCOTUS in their hands, let them do their job….It is Nancy’s House that could have Defunded the War, that could have brought Articles of Impeachment. , let them do their Job…. They’ve done nothing. Fuck ’em looking for a Hillary vote NOW, a Dem Slate now, so it makes their pork easier to fund. Fuuuuuck them.

106. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

Thus they fail to understand the Iraqi resistance, and some of the tactics being used against the occupiers.

That script was written long ago. Just look at the animosity towards the Palestinians.

107. BooHooHooMan - 25 January 2008

This in the comments following an EJ Dionne piece on B. Clinton’s pro Reagan gush when running in 92….

Catharsis? LOL. There’s no where to run, pal….

Did it! I called all three campaigns to tell them that, as a pro-choice, anti-war, pro-gay marriage, pro-universal health insurance, pro-cap-and-trade Democrat, I can’t support Hillary in the general, because she’s missing the most important part — decency. And I said how I’ll give money to her opponent and actively campaign against her if she’s facing McCain or Bloomberg. It was an incredibly vindicating outlet for some of the anger I’ve been feeling over the last few days. I urge anyone feeling the same way to do the same.
1/25/2008 6:29:07 PM

108. marisacat - 25 January 2008

107 just rescued from Spam… Sorry!

just reading it now, oh that comment is a HOOT!~

109. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 January 2008

Thus they fail to understand the Iraqi resistance, and some of the tactics being used against the occupiers.

I think that’s true of Americans’ understanding of the Palestinians’ suffering under Israeli occupation, too.

110. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 January 2008
111. Miss Devore - 25 January 2008

pink satin Everlasts out of the dry cleaners:

“Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Friday that any long-term military agreement between the US government and Iraq requires the approval of Congress.

“Some Republicans are talking about staying in Iraq for 50 or even 100 years, while President (George W.) Bush wants to cut a deal that will guarantee our presence well past his term,” ending in January 2009, Reid told the National Press Club.

“The president is on notice: he cannot do that unilaterally,” warned the top Democrat in a speech ahead of Bush’s State of the Union address next Tuesday.”

I can’t imagine the last dubya State of the Union. The summary of accomplishments: he changed daylight savings time.

112. marisacat - 25 January 2008

well I would guess that most Americans may not know, and would react badly to being informed, that reisistance to occupation is legal under the Geneva Conventions.

Bombs Away!

As if any of the jokers on offer plan to end the war(s), in any sense of the word. I t jsut moves to a bigger Dirty War.

113. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

Keith O is saying that super Tuesday won’t be decisive for the Dems because of the math. Oh noes…how long will this go on?

114. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 January 2008

South Carolina Primary Colors: Black and White? – by Greg Palast

Indeed, the late and lionized King of Union Busters, Sam Walton, would be proud today, were he alive, to learn that the woman he called, “my little lady,” Hillary Clinton, whom he placed on Wal-Mart’s Board of Directors, is front-runner for the presidency. She could well become America’s “Greeter,” posted at our nation’s door, to welcome the Saudis and Chinese who are buying America at a guaranteed low price.

115. liberalcatnip - 25 January 2008

Clinton roils vote dispute in presidential race

ROCK HILL, South Carolina (Reuters) – Sen. Hillary Clinton, in an about-face, said on Friday she wants the Democratic Party delegates in two states that were barred by the national party to be reinstated and counted in the race to determine the party’s U.S. presidential nominee.

In those states, Michigan and Florida, Clinton could stake claim to nearly all the delegates to the nominating convention in question — more than 350.

Right. Good luck with that.

116. marisacat - 25 January 2008

Noooooooooo Thread:


117. Intermittent Bystander - 25 January 2008

Oh noes…how long will this go on?

If Cool Hand Johnny can stick out the fight a while longer, things could get really baroque – as in baroquered convention. Delegates, superdelegates, and brokered conventions … oh my.

Huckabee dorm massacre survivor enjoys rest and repast, hugs Popcorn Tree.

Palm fronds crossed!

118. marisacat - 25 January 2008

argh. Will anyone be able to stand more Bush along about the time he departs. I wonder. Not to override Oliver Stone, LOL… but…

I read somewhere, and I have no idea the projections or expectations, but the three or so recent Iraq War movies have done badly.

119. Intermittent Bystander - 25 January 2008

argh. Will anyone be able to stand more Bush along about the time he departs. I wonder. Not to override Oliver Stone, LOL… but…

Like taking coals to a smoldering Newscastle, right?

Selling ice to an Eskim – uh-oh . . .

Nuh uh!

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