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Three AM Repast 30 January 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.

     petit dejeuner 

well I amused myself during the night… first with this sub thread of Smithee and Donkeytale just slapping each other around… quite tasty. 


You must have gone to school (5.00 / 2)
to be that completely and utterly stupid.  For something as Forrest-Gump-simple as delegate totals, try CNN you political retard.  Shit, you make Franny here look like Sun-fucking-Tzu by comparison.


And, on a terrain of issues and policy (and war criminals as advisors, an issue close to my heart), this subthread of HCfM with, first, Your Momma, then joined by Major Disarray.

*[new] Who’s offended? (0.00 / 0)
Jihad Cindy is a punchline. And yet supporting Obama–or at least not getting outraged over Obama’s affiliation of one of President Carter’s advisors–over her makes one a supporter of genocide.Stan, I think you’re going to choke on your own manufactured outrage. Perhaps you should visit one of those “massage parlors.”

Nice set of priorities there genius.

I never really thought of myself as a genius, but I’m gratified that you do.  

Pinche Vieja is a cunt

Both carrying a stench of Orange Blimps on Fire…

Ditto (0.00 / 0)

Fuck off.  

by Major Disarray @ Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 20:34:33 PM PST

[ Parent | Respond to this Idiocy |

a stench of being (volunteer level) Dem party thug operatives (if quite passive aggressive) and whatever else stench they are dragging around behind them. 

In the sub thread, Stupid Asshole pops up to indicate one, Your Momma, is MBNYC.  Seems highly possible.

*[new] I believe he goes by “MBNYC” (0.00 / 0)
But after the pwnage you just laid on him in this thread, I have a feeling he’ll be too embarrassed to reveal his regular moniker.  
Yes…. slight offerings today… but at least something is on the page – more or less……


1. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

stay away from CNN this morning … they are awash in Reagan lust today. They built a fucking replica of his Oval Office overlooking Air Force One at his library as a set for tonight’s debate.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

it’s minus fucking four this morning. NOT looking forward to the walk to work.

Have a good day everybody.

3. marisacat - 30 January 2008

bundle up!

Against Reagan lovers too!

4. marisacat - 30 January 2008

so called snub story deepens…

Sources: Senior Obama staffers rejected proposal for their candidate to sit with Clinton at State of the Union.

Leading Democrats wanted rivals to sit together for the sake of party unity.

Clinton was willing, but Obama chose to sit with newly-minted supporter Ted Kennedy.

Obama strategist David Axelrod to The Page: “No such invitation ever came from Senator Clinton. Had [she] made such a proposal, we would have adjusted our plans.”

More on all this here. The Page, 10:47 PM

hmm not sure I buy much of that. I imagine some Dem party strategists, leadership may have had such a harebrained idea… but I think it would have looked quite odd, the two of them seated together..

5. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

You catch this Edwards to Withdraw in New Orleans!

6. marisacat - 30 January 2008

John Edwards dropping out.

IMO this was negotiated to try ot build Obama numbers for Feb 5.

I am guessing the numbers out of FL worry them. Oh right, it did not matter. Right, right.

Where is that big ol’ Kennedy bounce? Maybe that is a bit of a worry as well………

7. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

JED would have been savaged on Feb 5th.

I figure (from my derriere) BO gets the fundraising list and @ 2/3 of his activista, the rest will be lookin for ass cover under HillBill.

Maybe old man Edwards got a job outside the mill…who knows?

8. melvin - 30 January 2008

So much for a convention with one iota of interest.

But I won’t miss that goddamned mill. Maybe BO can crank up the goat herding tales?

9. JJB - 30 January 2008

Just watched about a minute of McCain’s victory speech at TPM. That man is on some serious drugs, no doubt intended to keep his volcanic temper from doing a Krakatoa. Anyone familiar with his demeanor prior to this year will realize that he’s seriously zonked out, and that Chesire Cat smile he now affects so often is truly scary. Needless to say, this will go completely unreported upon by the MSM, just as they refused to investigate whether or not George Bush was a genuine teetotaler.

When I was still posting at places like Little Orange Footballs, I would tell people that Rudy Giuliani had absolutely zero chance of ever being elected, if only because he was so freakishly ugly. To those who insisted he was a threat to take New York State’s electoral votes out of the Dem column, I would point out that he had more than worn out his welcome, that he was never the least bit popular outside the NYC metropolitan area (the reason he kept wimping out of the many opportunities he had to run for statewide office), and that after 8 years as mayor, he would have unable to win a race in the city aside from something like DA or borough president for Staten Island or Queens, and he’d be hard pressed to win in the latter borough. The failure of his candidacy was as predictable as an eclipse, but a lot more fun.

10. supervixen - 30 January 2008

Too bad. Edwards was the best of the lot.
Not sufficiently reptilian to be the party candidate, however.

Orange Blimps on Fire

LOL MCat, that made me snarf my Twinings. “Oh the humanity!!!”

It’s funny how the Orangers have to roam around other sites attacking any critics. And they’re always in pairs or groups – too fucking cowardly to stand on their own.

11. marisacat - 30 January 2008

LOL maybe he could send Bill some of what he is on.

And yes agree, some anger supprssion pharmaceuticals being used there.

12. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008


Smithee should totally change his name to “Mr. Green Jeans.” If he doesn’t, I may have to.


13. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

Melvin! Get to Work! … in the mill…LOL

Now before any observers think me insular or insulated…LOL

Among a patchwork of jobs as a laddie…
I worked two summers in the “hot end” of a Corning Glass Factory in State College PA. which made heavy old style tv screens in two parts the front part called “panels” and the back part “funnels” which eventually were glass welded together…I worked at “The Melt”,
right where a huge river of molten glass came off the melt in a 120 degree heatwave area …rotating 15 minutes in, then 5 minutes out in the OSHA zone with ac, salt tabs and water fountains available,…. all night long…You’d lose 8 Lbs a night (about a gallon of water) and replenish it by the time you came back .

It was like working in Hell ….but for 8 bucks an hour!….

Maybe my kid can be Preznit someday…I’ll be the Old Codger behind her foaming at the mouth being carted away…

14. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

The Kozzie Du Jour’s whole argument against Hair Club consisted of using (gasp !) HC’s real life first name and yelling “EVERYBODY DOES IT, PURIST” about seventy-two times.

No wonder these fucks can’t battle their way out of a wet paper bag in an election. If you armed them with an electric carving knife it would still take them a week to get through.

Sabrina was also in good form, though.

15. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008


Dear John: Where’s My Money?
by 2501
Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:13:39 AM PST

Perhaps it might be more appropriate to have said “Dear Joe” (as in Trippi), since he’s the one whose name was on the email I received yesterday. The email which said, “We’re About to Break a Record!” and asked me to contribute because the campaign only needed $73,000 more by tomorrow to set a new high for fundraising.

Really, Trippi Blew 40 Million of Howard’s money in a flash….What is he – the Next Shrumm? On crack???…..

16. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

LOL , xeno…

Headin out…

17. Hair Club for Men - 30 January 2008

HC’s real life first name and yelling “EVERYBODY DOES IT, PURIST” about seventy-two times.

Particularly ridiculous since I’ve got a url that’s the same as my name in my PFF profile.

What I’m struck by however is that some of them will answer the charges about Bzrezinski’s funding the Mujahadeen but that none of them even seem to be aware of what happened in East Timor and, if they are, bringing it up at all seems proof that you’re ridiculous.

And I posted that document showing how Bzrezinski shut down a congressional investigation into Kissinger/Ford greenlighting the invasion 3 times.

But since the mainstream media isn’t talking about Suharto at all, I guess the typical Kosswhack can’t either. It’s not even Israel (and Suharto makes Arial Sharon look small time). And they still can’t discuss it.

18. marisacat - 30 January 2008

from marc Ambinder…. LOL sounds like the phone calls with Obama over the past days did not go well:

[A]dvisers say he worries that Obama isn’t ready to be president and that Hillary Clinton represents too much the old way of doing business… and both concerns weigh heavily.::snip snappy::

19. Hair Club for Men - 30 January 2008

Wayne Barrett gleefully pissing on the grave of Rudy’s campaign on Democracy Now.

20. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

I think that Rudy’s dive is as much to be blamed on the incredibly short memory of the average American as anything else. Sure, everyone said they’d NEVER FORGET 911 but there is now a huge swath of Americans that weren’t even of voting age yet when it happened. The rest would prefer not to think about it because of the subsequent unpleasantries that have come to be associated with it (ie– Afghanistan, the abuse of workers and residents, etc). Later on Rudy may even have the wit to realize that he lucked out by not giving even the inept Dems and their cadre of high-powered [snerk] bloggers the opportunity to drag all that shite back into the light of day for ten months straight.

I’m sure McCain can find a comfy cabinet post for him. The NEA would be perfect, unless Chuck Norris ends up getting that appointment first. :p

21. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

John Edwards dropping out.

Gee. What happened to staying in until the convention as he said over and over?

I guess this means that from now on the dkos rec list will be fully loaded with Obama diaries. zzzzzzzzzzz…

22. melvin - 30 January 2008

21 Not to worry. Nader arrives just in the nick of time. There will be a couple hundred diaries a day foaming at the mouth about that for the next three years.

I am more concerned about Mr. Holland. The withdrawal of the last white male from the Dem race leaves him with no hobbyhorse to ride. He is reduced to recycling year-old diaries that, if possible, are even less relevant now.

23. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

Shared w/kind permission:

An LJ buddy tells Pappas of NOW, ‘Sister, Stop Showing Your Ass’>

Pappas calls Edwards’ endorsement of Obama a “psychological gang bang” and the poster responds, in part:

…As for your larger point, yes, it would be nice to see a woman president, but some of us have actual ideals and politics, and things we care about besides anatomy or gender. I, for example, would like to see a truly progressive president, regardless of race or gender, who would fight for the interests of all oppressed and exploited people, and Hilary Clinton is not it. You say the responsibility of women and feminists is to support a woman candidate, regardless of how you might feel about their politics. That feels pretty anti-feminist to me, to imply that I can’t think for myself; or to imply that all women are motivated just by feelings of sisterhood, but nothing else, that we are all single issue thinkers and actors. Not only that, it’s incredibly patronizing. Even if I was a Clinton supporter, I would be insulted and outraged by the oversimplification of what feminism is and by your gratuitous use of violent, misogynistic imagery to score a point… –sadie_sabot, 1/29/08

24. marisacat - 30 January 2008

when did Edwards endorse?

25. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

Ah, sorry. Was (mis)reading a WaPo window I had open at the same time. Was just sort of hinting that an endorsement was imminent.

That’s why I’ll never be a big time blogger. :/

26. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Well, Im feeling … it’s too bad JE dropped out, too, supervixen.

He used to alternately bore me or disgust me, but I grew to feel more positive about him over the past few months. The fact that he was actually stating “corporate greed” and talking about needing to “fight” the insurance/drug/oil/banking industries – doing this over and over – made me feel that he had tossed that message one too many times into the ring to pull back too much if elected. His words also added about the only jolt to an otherwise tame atmosphere in the top tier, which is the only tier covered.

I still dont think he is very keen on foreign policy and I felt he needed to be taken to task for past performance GAPS in light of current claims, but I didnt feel the disparity meant he hadnt necessarily turned a corner. It happens.

27. NYCee - 30 January 2008

schadenfreude lite…

As for Rudy, I dont think he really cares about the presidency, which has the unfortunate effect of diluting my schadenfreude.

28. JJB - 30 January 2008

Edwards has not endorsed either of his rivals.

My GOP Congresscritter Tom Davis has made it official, he will not run for another term. Since he managed to get elected over and over again on the force of his “nice guy” personality, the GOP will probably be hard pressed to hang on to this seat, given the enormous demographic changes in that neck of the woods.

Nader is getting lazier and lazier about these silly presidential campaigns of his, not even bothering to do any of the spadework necessary to get a campaign going prior to this point. I think at this point he’s trying to rehabilitate Harold Stassen’s reputation. Either that or he wants to ensure that McCain isn’t the oldest person you can vote for this coming November.

Aside from running for president, Nader hasn’t done anything of consequence the last 15-20 years, during which time our cars have gotten far more dangerous and wasteful of fossil fuel, our food far less healthy (most of us are basically on an all-corn diet), and the huge corporations he claims to despise have extended their monopolies even further. Which of course gives Ralph the opportunity to creep out of seclusion every four years, deplore what’s going on, and draw a lot of attention to himself. Which I think is the main point. Those of you who condemn Kucinich for saying all the right things then supporting whoever the Dems nominate need to face the fact that Nader isn’t any better, and that the ghost of (to take one example) Robert LaFollette, Sr. could walk among us, wave his wand and give us a Progressive Valhalla, and Nader would launch a thousand lawsuits complaining that it needed more airbags. If every position he espoused were somehow satisfied according to his strictures, he’d be the most miserable person on the planet.

29. NYCee - 30 January 2008

So one flaming neocon maniac will endorse another flaming neocon maniac at Reagan’s library tonight.

But all we will hear from the media about either of them is:


30. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Well, Kucinich is too advanced for the nation and the Dem party, but they are where he lives – his place of birth and the only viable party, nationally, except for the GOOP.

31. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Speaking of Nader’s hermetic behavior, save the every-4-year itch, whatever happened to Cindy Sheehan and her challenge to Nancy Pelosi? I havent heard from her, or of her, in ages.

32. JJB - 30 January 2008

The Fed has cut short-term interest rates once again, this time by a half point. It’s now 3%, down from 4.25% only nine days ago.


33. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Yeah, that didnt take long…

The Fed’s what feeds us… on fumes.

34. marisacat - 30 January 2008

Gee… can I say that in mid single digit 21st c (an ugly place to be as an American) I am not too fond of either Kuc OR Nader.

Both did great things in the past. Truly great things, esp Nader over an extended series of decaades. In fact I wish the documentary out on Nader had done more on the organising and support for various local organisers not even part of his shop in the 80s…

Kuc deserves a documentary for his work in Ohio.

But Basta… it is OVER w/r/t to the presidency. I am nto saying they cannot run (too few people run, as a matter of fact) but it has hardened to set pieces.

The Edwards endorse from nader was just plain strange.

Best of luck to them, but I can barely raise my head for either.

Any small shred of progressivism (whatever that is) or liberal left (whatever that is) in the Dem party is simply overwhelmed, out voted, derided, ignored, etc by the coalition of conservatives of both parties.

Shit at least in Mexico a part of politics – and collective action – is the acknowledged reality that the ptb will NEVER ALLOW THE LEFT TO WIN.

Makes a big difference that.

35. NYCee - 30 January 2008

The early voting wreaks havoc on candidates ability to campaign effectively, combined with the shortened primary timetable this year. Romney might have done better in FL had he had more time. Also, Hillary’s name recognition does her favors in places like FL … and doesnt CA have early voting too? I have heard absentee, but I dont know who that includes… or excludes.

36. marisacat - 30 January 2008

I just read numbers for FL voting… she won big in early voting. He won with those who made up their mind between one month and ‘the week of voting’.

BUT she won, 34 to 30 (caaveat fwiw, as in who knows or really cares) those who decided the day of the vote.

37. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

I’ll say this for Nader and Kucinich: they both brought at least a semblance of what “progressivism” is supposed to be about to the public airwaves (as much as they could considering how they were so stifled by the corporate media) and that ought to stick out in the minds of voters when they look at the platforms of the Top Two Twins  now for whom “progressivism” is just a catch phrase.

I feel no pain for Guiliani. He sunk himself with his 9/11 rhetoric and that’s as it should be. He was an opportunist with a megaphone who pushed it as far as he could take it. (Yes, they’re all opportunists but his brand was particularly ugly).

38. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Why lovers of Israel should vote for McCain (according to Lieberman)

FORT LAUDERDALE – Joe Lieberman was a busy man this week, and the week before, and the one before that. Almost as busy as a candidate for the 2008 election. So busy that he did not even have the time to go back to Washington for the State of the Union address. So busy that he was trying to squeeze some interviews while driving from one event to another. One of them was with Haaretz.
He does not believe that talks with Iran will make the difference. Lieberman calls this approach “just naive”. You can’t expect that “words” will do the trick. The Iranians will react to “strength.”

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb Iran.

39. supervixen - 30 January 2008

From ms. x’s link:

Feminism at it’s best is about collective liberation, about breaking down patriarchy as well as racism, classism, and all other forms of oppression and exploitation. At it’s worse, feminism is about promoting the interests of white, middle and upper class women, women who are already quite empowered, at the expense of all of the rest of us.

What horseshit. I hear it all the time from women who don’t know what feminism is about. It’s not about racism and classism, etc. Those are secondary to the main goal of liberation of WOMEN. That has to come first.

40. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Yeah, we dont have much of a voice, do we? I think part of it is because the people (too many) dont care (enough) and dont bother (significantly) to latch onto each other to fight for progressive causes. Not in enough numbers. Not loudly or consistently enough.

Look at Amy Goodman’s operation on Democracy Now. AG & co. have put tremendous, unflagging effort in getting the word out … to what remains a disregarded niche. I dont know what Noam or Howard Z are talking about when they say the masses are far ahead of the politicians. Maybe on the phone, when asked, but in feet to the street, or shoulder to the grindstone (think how Italians and French shut down the country with their massive strikes)… I dont think so.

We have toyed with laissez faire ideology (or govt interference on behalf of the wealthy elite) and the pols who promote this for so long that now they have got what they flirted with… and it has got us in a bind. Too many are conditioned to believe in it, others are too overworked by its demands to fight back, too lacking in protection to get the necessary protection to take the risk… because risks werent taken even when it was easier to do so… and too clueless to know what can or should be done.

And then there is always the great national pastime – shopping… China keeps churning out the smack that soothes…

And when you’re coming down from that, there’s always Idol. Lots and lots of participation there.

Oh, and there is the opiate of “worship.” I think some churchgoers do actually take the better principles of Christ (or what “God” has to offer, whatever the stripe) and work to apply it to issues, but quite a large chunk are just in it for “feel good,” image, and the pass beyond the pearly gates.

41. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Thanks for the #s, Mcat.

catnip – oh yeah, it is totally fitting that McCain and Lieberman are two toxic peas in a pod, esp when it comes to The Region and the bomb first mentality. I recall reading a few years ago how those 2, especially those two, were Chalabi’s biggest cheerleaders in Congress, back in ’98. Back when Regime Change got pushed and got on the books. They were totally enamored, quite cozy, his tag team partners. All on the same page on The Region.

But then, what do I know? The media keeps saying:


Lull lull lull….

42. marisacat - 30 January 2008

there he goes again.

i was afraid I had to sign on to Pff and stick up for myself, but sabrina took care of it.

What a dip shit DBYron is.

43. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

The Winograd report on the Lebanon war is out and Olmert came through it unscathed.

It just should have been a better war:

The committee called the war, which Israel launched against Hezbollah on July 12, 2006 after the militant group abducted two Israel Defense Forces soldiers and killed three others, a “major missed opportunity.”

They also concluded that the 11th hour bombing of Lebanon when Israel knew the UN resolution was coming was justified.

Same shit, different day.

44. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008


Compared to who, I wonder?

45. NYCee - 30 January 2008

Did anyone catch the interview with Mumsie (McCain) on Cspan last weekend? Quite intriguing.

She was asked about when she found out her son’s plane had been shot down in Vietnam. She said she and hubby went ahead with dinner party plans, kept it quiet throughout, and upon returning home got the word he was probably a captive, not dead. Until then, or close to that time, Mumsie thought he was dead. She went on to say that she called McCain’s young wife and said: I think he’s dead, dont you? Well, we had better just accept it.”

She then explained to the interviewer that she had seen how badly military wives took such news, and that she has always felt it is better to “fish or cut bait.” (No joke)

ie, Get over it. Skip those pesky phases of mourning. Even if its your husband or son.

He’s dead. Move on.


46. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

#39. I disagree, sv.

Oppressions overlap. Or switch-hit. Some are more noticeable than others depending on circumstance. It’s hard to think of a more bald-faced example of this than all the finger-pointing between Hillary Clinton’s campaign and Obama’s campaign.

Ergo, I’m not going to tell anyone to pick and choose which is the primary oppression. I completely understand that nobody can take on every worth cause all at the same time. Okay. But that’s not the same as saying that I can prove I’ve been shat on the most and so I can say and do whatever I want without regard for the others who’ve been shat upon.

There have been huge brawls between blogs by White feminists and those by WOC (some of whom consider themselves feminists) in which the latter have tried to explain that commonalities between the two groups are not enough to erase the differences or grounds for glossing over the differences ALL THE TIME. I agree with that. The oppression olympics are an intellectual and spiritual dead end.

That NOW column was bullshit, and the language in it bordered on race-baiting if it wasn’t outright race-baiting.

47. Hair Club for Men - 30 January 2008

McCain and Rudy on the same stage.

How much September 11 can you pack into one press conference?

48. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

catnip: #37

…I’ll say this for Nader and Kucinich: they both brought at least a semblance of what “progressivism” is supposed to be about to the public airwaves (as much as they could considering how they were so stifled by the corporate media…

Yeah, it’s funny how many times you have to remind people that there’s a direct connection between Nader’s alleged “disappearance” after 2000’s election and the fact that it suits the oligarchs nicely to pretend that reform is just a funny costume that we dress the clowns in every four years for a cheap laugh or two. :/

49. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

sabrina’s takedown of Mr. Stomach Flu on the afforementioned PFF thread is beautiful.

I’ll break my rule re responding to you just this once (5.00 / 1)
Issues of humanitarianism are being discussed across the internet. What you want is to lure women here into helping you to feed a very disturbing obsession which has nothing to do with issues.

People here deserve credit for not attempting to deal with what really is a problem for professionals. That is really what is bothering you.
by sabrina @ Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 16:17:14 PM CST

50. marisacat - 30 January 2008

He’s dead. Move on.


45 – NYCee

it always amazes me that people think that those running for Pretzeldent come from decent people. According to fairy tale, yeah. Not necessarily by reality.

She si welcome to deal with grief as she sees fit, but really it sounds like she is (and was) presenting herself as Stronger Than Thou: Not like those little enlisted wives who snivel and grieve and carry on in front of their [enlisted] chilluns.

And then look at what she produced.

51. Hair Club for Men - 30 January 2008

I think I may write a diary on Andrea Dworkin’s views on the Palestinians and Israelis. It will piss off Moon, yourmomma and David Byron all at once.


My parents went out of their way to say “some Arabs,” to emphasize that there were good and bad people in every group; but in fact my education in the Jewish community made that caveat fairly meaningless. Arabs were primitive, uncivilized, violent. (My parents would never have accepted such characterizations of blacks.) Arabs hated and killed Jews. Really, I learned that Arabs were irredeemably evil. In all my travels through life, which were extensive, I never knew any Arabs: and ignorance is the best friend of prejudice.

52. marisacat - 30 January 2008

It will piss off Moon, yourmomma and David Byron all at once.

A congealing fuckball fo a trifecta…


53. Hair Club for Men - 30 January 2008

Ed Koch on Rudy.


Florida’s voters “will drive a stake through his heart. The beast is dead.”

God. I agree with Ed Koch on something.

Some of the comments in that thread are priceless.

Poor Rudy..where will we get our hourly dose of 9/11 now? Actually, his defeat reminds me of 9/11. By the way, Rudy showed great courage in his loss tonight — much like on 9/11. No one can exploit a national tragedy for political purposes like Mr. 9/11…well, except for Mr. Bush.

54. Hair Club for Men - 30 January 2008

I wouldn’t go as far as Ed Koch but I don’t know Giuliani personally. From this distant perch, I would agree that Giuliani represented something toxic and ugly in American politics and that frightening rictus that passed as a smile made me dread his candidacy. He should go back to running Giuliani partners with his ex priest pedophile friend and stay out of the limelight.

55. wilfred - 30 January 2008

The word here in NYC is that Bloomberg is moving closer to running an indie campaign now that McCain, Clinton and Obama are rising.

56. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Florida’s voters “will drive a stake through his heart. The beast is dead.”

Oooo…ouch. lol

Beast, indeed. A vampire sucking the very blood out of the memory of 9/11.

57. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Looks like the Repubs all got nice tans in Fla.

McCain looks like he’d like to give Romney a smack upside the head.

58. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Romney gets his ass handed to him on a plate by McCain. He should just crawl under his desk now.

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

But all we will hear from the media about either of them is:


LOL … I was listening to BBC Newshour this morning, and they were of course explaining the whole Rudy/McCain thing, and the reporter said something like (paraphrasing from memory), “now understand, they’re called ‘moderates’ in America, but anywhere else in the world they would be identified as solidly far right.”

Sooooo true.

60. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Here’s who I’d vote for.

61. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

whatever happened to Cindy Sheehan and her challenge to Nancy Pelosi?

Here’s her Campaign website. She posts at After Downing St once or twice a week, and I think I’ve read at her being at several protests. She had a good piece up on MLK’s birthday. link.

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

Ergo, I’m not going to tell anyone to pick and choose which is the primary oppression.

Which is why I, like our hostess, call myself a humanist. Depending on the time, the place, the person, all oppressions which denegrate a group of people, or a single person, based solely on some characteristic that brands them OTHER are crimes against humanity, and should be opposed.

The problem w/ the whole black vs female BS that is being pushed is that neither candidate, regardless of the meatsuit they walk around in, is interested in doing anything for EITHER group, let alone the poor, American Indians, undocumented workers, the uninsured et cetera, et cetera. They are two tools of money and power who care only about money and power.

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

Slander, Murder and Sixty Minutes: The Establishment Consensus on Iraq

One of the great state-created blood libels of our age is the utterly false – and easily disprovable – lie that up to a million innocent Iraqis have been slaughtered because of Saddam Hussein’s “defiance” of UN demands that he disarm. George W. Bush and his minions have repeated this Big Lie so many times in so many ways over the years that it has taken hold as “conventional wisdom.” Learned pundits and celebrity journalists can often be found scratching their heads over this puzzling question: “Why the devil didn’t Saddam just say he didn’t have any weapons of mass destruction? Why did he keep pretending, even when he was about to be attacked?” [snip]

And so we come to the latest regurgitation of this blood libel, on last Sunday’s edition of “60 Minutes” – the nation’s most venerable and prestigious TV newsmagazine. “60 Minutes” is the closest thing left in our fragmented media culture to the kind of powerful sway once held by Life Magazine and Time Magazine in establishing the parameters of conventional wisdom. The show featured an interview with FBI agent George Piro, who had interrogated Saddam Hussein after his capture. The interview was conducted by “journalist” Scott Pelley, who pounded again and again on this question: “Why did Saddam choose war with the United States?”

The sheer moral depravity of that question is almost beyond comprehension. As the historical record shows, the war was launched at the direct order of George W. Bush. (I saw it on television myself; Pelley might look it up in the CBS archives.) Earlier, Bush had ordered the UN inspectors to leave Iraq; then he ordered a “decapitation attack” (as Bush officials themselves called it) – a bomb strike on a residential neighborhood where Saddam Hussein was thought to be staying. He wasn’t, of course, but the innocent people who were torn to shreds by the attempted decapitation were soon forgotten after Bush’s next order: the massive “shock and awe” bombardment that was meant to terrorize the Iraqi people into submission, followed by the full-scale ground invasion itself. Bush chose war.

Or rather, he chose to escalate a war that had been going on for years, through sanctions that enriched Saddam and selected Western firms but killed at least – at least – half a million Iraqi children; through CIA-sponsored terrorist attacks against Iraqi citizens; and through the constant bombing of Iraq, which in the months before the ground attack had secretly surged to an all-out air assault to “prepare the battlespace” for the coming invasion. And yet Pelley – who we must assume is not four years old, but was actually an adult during the period in question, even a “journalist,” presumably able to read and to comprehend moving images and human speech on television – can go on national television in 2008 and ask why Saddam Hussein chose to make war on the United States.

As this murderous lie engulfs our public discourse, we can see, yet again, that there is nothing – no lie so vile, so howlingly false – that our elites will not swallow, if it helps confirm their comforting self-image as important figures in a noble system dedicated to the highest ideals.

64. melvin - 30 January 2008

Anderson showing the Ark of the Covenant, Reagan’s diary, but afraid to touch it.

65. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Anderson showing the Ark of the Covenant, Reagan’s diary, but afraid to touch it.

That was a pathetic moment. And then he cut off Paul while he allowed McCain to ramble.

66. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Romney: “unequivocably” wtf?

67. melvin - 30 January 2008

unequivocobubbely – going for the Bush/glossolalia vote?

68. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

There are safe havens for Hezbollah in Iraq?? Romney’s losing it.

69. melvin - 30 January 2008

Oh he just makes it up as he goes along. Pretty soon he’ll repeat that Saddam wouldn’t let the inspectors in, which casued the war – a lie he peddles every damn time and no reporter ever calls him on it.

70. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Food fight over Iraq! Finally – some proof of life on that stage.

71. melvin - 30 January 2008

laying in the weeds? wtf

72. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

Madman, I hope it didn’t seem like I was trying to jump down sv’s throat or something. I do hate the one-dimensional critique of feminism that misogynists love to trot out. Oh, it’s all about middle class bourgeois White women yadda yadda. Yeah, Boys. Like the internet isn’t all about the middle class, or like misogyny went out with the (literal) caveman and isn’t being nurtured and perpetuated by middle-class White men.

But sadie_sabot in the LJ column wasn’t saying that’s all of feminism. She was saying that unfortunately there are some women who think that’s all there is to it. I’m happy to call myself a feminist but given how many carnival barkers in skirts there are out there (ie– Pandagon, MSOC, etc.) I’m not going to treat it as the beginning and end of political dialogue. Frankly if somebody does worthy work and is trustworthy they can call themselves three-eyed purple-haired tap-dancing ferrets for all I care.

73. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

“The Washington Post gave you 3 Pinocchios for it.” lol

74. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Oh stop making sense, Paul. Sheesh.

75. wilfred - 30 January 2008

Josh Marshall doing some funny riffs on the R debate at Talkingpointsmemo.com

76. melvin - 30 January 2008

74 Don’t worry. Those stray shards of reality will be swept up in a moment – the circus must go on.

77. melvin - 30 January 2008

Romney almost casually elevates Al Qaeda to the status of one of the four great powers in his imaginary world, along with “the oil countries,” China, and the US, which he describes as the only major power standing for democracy.

So where does that leave Europe, India, Australia, etc? They are not of the same global significance as Al Qaeda? They don’t believe in democracy?

This is the same old Manichaenism on steroids.

78. marisacat - 30 January 2008

Just heard/saw the Caroline Kennedy ad for Obama, running in a spot on my local evening noooz.

79. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

OK, I just tuned into this mess, and I promise I’ll read upthread shortly, but before I do anything remotely rational at all, I need to know why the FUCK these war-loving MARTIANS are sitting in front of a goddamned AIRPLANE?

And if it’s supposed to be a pilot interview for the United States Air Ship of State, why didn’t they just go on ahead and put bombs on the side of it, too?

But I’d like to note, for the record and on behalf of the HUMAN race – aka EVERYBODY, HELLO? – that the only applause I’ve heard so far was for Ron Paul’s bit of chat about the Constitution and DECLARED War.

Let’s everybody track BACK just a fucking TAD and start there!

Holy shit, this is such a fucking Grand American Rerun.

80. melvin - 30 January 2008

Holy moly an outburst of Ronald Reaganitis. My counter is broken but I estimate Romney said RR 25 times in three minutes.

81. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

NYCee at 45: Barbara II.

82. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

77. Not only that, he forgot Poland!

83. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

And thanks for the info. Have been wondering about Mumsie, but lacked the stomach to look.

Appreciate the nougatized version!

84. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

Ahnold endorsing McCain. Armageddon’s definitely on the way.

85. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

Aaargh – Arnie’s endorsing McCain?

God, and Rudy on the same day!

I see a consensus forming: Famous Creeps for Caspar the Chemically Friendly Kewpie Ghost!

86. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

Did I leave out War-Mongering and Murderous?

Typing too fast – sorrrrrrry!

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

oh, I didn’t think you were, ms. x.

88. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

84 – Armageddon? Whatever, Bible Readers! As long as it’s Apocalypse Now, Again, and Forever!


89. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

Probably a bad idea I tuned in to the GOP Debate. . . .

Apologies, Opera Fans and Popcorn Enthusiasts, for the outburst and eye-swatting typography.

I’ll reserve the right to air my ire for certain other topics and subjects for another day and another hour.

90. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

For example, certain InFamous Creeps Who Lurk and Feed and then (Smarter Yet? Still Reading?) SHIT all over Marisacat’s Internet Name and Reputation, All For their Own UNFATHOMABLY Shallow, PUERILE, and – ye$$$$$ – Commercial Reasons.

That sort of thing.

OK? Thanx!

91. Intermittent Bystander - 30 January 2008

(Didn’t know I could speak MSOC, didja?)

How do you say – carry on!

92. StupidAsshole - 30 January 2008

61, MitM: I’ve always thought that Cindy needs to get in touch with Chris Daly, who has a very good GOTV operation in District 6 and is always happy to take on the Brown-Burton Machine. Obviously, she’s not going to win, but I think she could get 40% (thus embarrassing Pelosi) if she succeeded in capturing the imagination of the City’s progressive wing. My guess is that she needs to expand her campaign beyond Iraq, to encompass such issues as that Howard Jarvis initiative that would end rent control (which is on the ballot in June, when no-one votes), displacement of blacks from the Bay View, lack of affordable housing, etc.

Also: major props to HCfM for that interchange with the undercover Kos kop. I very much enjoyed reading it.

93. supervixen - 30 January 2008

ms. x, no disrespect intended to you in my comment, I was reacting to a pet peeve of mine. I don’t want to bore everyone here with a big essay about feminism, so suffice it to say that the “feminism is for upper middle class white women” and “I’m a humanist, not a feminist”* bullshit is EXACTLY like the DKos mantra “I’m a progressive, sure, but not one of those icky dirty hippies, peaceniks or lesbian Gloria Steinem types.”

As for the “women of color” and underclass thing. that was fomented by all the PC academics who get off on creating subsets and subsubsets and subsubsubsets of schools of thought, which is OK for academia (makework for PhD candidates) but sucks shit in terms of reflecting actual reality.

* MCat, I’m not talking about you, I don’t know what your original comment was. I’m talking about dipshits like “tryptamine” on DKos, who said basically “My problem with feminism is – what about the poor men? Don’t they get to be liberated too?”

94. supervixen - 30 January 2008

62. MitM:

The problem w/ the whole black vs female BS that is being pushed is that neither candidate, regardless of the meatsuit they walk around in, is interested in doing anything for EITHER group, let alone the poor, American Indians, undocumented workers, the uninsured et cetera, et cetera. They are two tools of money and power who care only about money and power.

Quite right. Thought it must be said that there’s a crowdpleasing Guinness Book of World Records cachet regarding the “first black/woman president”. And the societal impact of either would be huge. The sight of such a thing would cause a seismic shift in perception. However that doesn’t necessarily mean any real change in attitude or policy. They will be blacks/women channeling white men. We old folks remember Maggie Thatcher saying “What has feminism done for me?”

95. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008


…As for the “women of color” and underclass thing. that was fomented by all the PC academics who get off on creating subsets and subsubsets and subsubsubsets of schools of thought, which is OK for academia (makework for PhD candidates) but sucks shit in terms of reflecting actual reality…

Huh ? I think there are some women of color out there who would disagree with you. Even the generally sympathetic looks at feminist history like HBO’s Iron Jawed Angels from a few years back acknowledge that Black women were either ignored or relegated to the back row through much of the movement’s history. It’s no more detached from reality to say that feminism in the U.S. has grown under the shadow of racism than it would be to say that about most movements. We live in a society founded on all those “isms” and I can think of no movement that succeeded in creating a utopia where nobody was subject to them, at least some of the time.

[shrug] I have a college degree, but my education was largely apolitical, at least up front. I don’t really think of myself as being an academic just because I’ve picked at bits and pieces of the texts on occasion. Sort of like I do paperwork in an office in a factory but don’t really think that makes me a factory worker in the literal sense.

There are some excellent blogs out there like Egotistical Whining and La Chola that talk at length about the intersecting of multiple oppressions. I don’t read them as often as I should, though.

96. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

#94– Polly J. Harvey sort of feels the same way as Thatcher but at least she’s contriubuted something to the culture other than death, graft and poverty. :p

97. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

From NYT

A Canadian financier who traveled to Kazakhstan with Bill Clinton and won a big mining deal later donated millions to Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation.

An Ex-President, a Mining Deal and a Big Donor
Published: January 31, 2008

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

Upon landing on the first stop of a three-country philanthropic tour, the two men were whisked off to share a sumptuous midnight banquet with Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent.

Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy. Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record by, among others, Mr. Clinton’s wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

98. supervixen - 30 January 2008

ms x: I think there are some women of color out there who would disagree with you.

Most likely they are unaware of the history of the movement. Just like the vast majority of white people are. This lack of knowledge leads them to be easily manipulated.

99. supervixen - 30 January 2008

97, BHHM: wow, my opinion of the NYT has risen – I like the fact that “sumptuous midnight banquet” and “stranglehold” are in the same paragraph.

100. Miss Devore - 30 January 2008

97-it is the news of the hour and the only weird and fascinating thing I came across today

101. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

I left out the money shot from above

Within two days, corporate records show that Mr. Giustra also came up a winner when his company signed preliminary agreements giving it the right to buy into three uranium projects controlled by Kazakhstan’s state-owned uranium agency, Kazatomprom…..

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

102. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

To The Escape Pods! LMAO…sighing

103. marisacat - 30 January 2008

Big showy foundations fronting for big showy people are just that, fronts. Shells, sieves… foundations are barely looked at closely… and under no requirement to spend other than a small percentage each year on their stated charity/ies.

104. Miss Devore - 30 January 2008

but it is plainly weird. Borat the Vote?

105. ms_xeno - 30 January 2008

sv. I can’t agree with you on this one. The country is steeped in racism as surely as it’s steeped in sexism. Nobody was, or is, immune.

If anyone’s interested, there’s an interesting excerpt about race and suffrage here.

…As late as 1919, it was
clear that a growing number of White women were ready to settle for an amendment that would give
them, but not Black women, the ballot. Even Alice Paul, White president of the radical National Women’s
Party (NWP), whose extreme suffragists experienced picketing, imprisonment, and a hunger strike,
appeared willing to write off suffrage for Black women. She is alleged to have told one audience of
Southern Whites “that all of this talk of Negro women voting in South Carolina was nonsense.” White
men, particularly those in the South, were convinced that Black women would turn out in greater
numbers to vote than White women, which would upset their White advantage at the polling place.

In 1920, the Nineteenth Amendment, guaranteeing women the right to vote, was finally ratified, without
any reference to race. As it turned out, White women’s concerns about the South hardly mattered. The
amendment passed without the support of Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia,
Alabama’ Louisiana, Florida, and Mississippi. In fact, the only Southern states to ratify it were Tennessee,
Kentucky, Texas, and Arkansas.

White women could not have predicted this course of events, though. In a lingering era of lynchings and
Jim Crow laws, any move to double the enfranchisement of the American population was perceived as
having potentially volatile racial implications, and nowhere was this more so than in the South. For White
women, the issue was a double-edged sword. On the one hand, had more of them visibly aligned
themselves with Black women, the passage of the suffrage amendment most certainly would have been
delayed by racist White men threatened by the new alliance. On the other hand, had White women fully
embraced Black women into their suffragist cause, there would have been more good will between them.
Ironically, some historians believe that American women would have soon gained the right to vote
anyhow, as most other Western nations were moving in the direction of enfranchising their female
citizens. Again, though, White women didn’t know this at the time, and they used “whatever means
necessary” to get the suffrage amendment ratified… — from Divided Sisters: Bridging The Gap Between Black Women and White Women, Midge Wilson & Kathy Russell, 1996

There were always White feminists who tried to bridge the racial gap but the current schisms in the women’s movement are testimony enough that A) They were never the majority of White feminists and B) Attacking a single oppression in a one-size-fits-all fashion doesn’t end oppression for everyone who has suffered under it.

106. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008
107. bayprairie - 30 January 2008

haven’t had a chance to read the NYT piece yet but newsweek has an Isikoff piece in the Feb 4th issue that’s been online a day or two. not sure if someone already linked it, but It covers some of the same ground and also has a few other Friends of Bill.

Here an F.O.B., There an F.O.B.

108. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

My guess is that she needs to expand her campaign beyond Iraq,

I think she’s going to. From the MLK b-day post:

Today as we celebrate and commemorate the birth of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, we must also acknowledge the violence of his death at the hands of the machine that has only grown more powerful and rapacious over the years. We must also acknowledge the violence of the inconceivable racism here in America that recently raised its demented head in such places as Jena, La and in the toxic soups in disadvantaged and mostly black neighborhoods of the Lower Ninth Ward in New Orleans and in my own backyard: Bayview-Hunter’s Point, San Francisco. [snip]

It has been wonderful to be immersed in a city that is as diverse and stimulating as San Francisco. When I impulsively challenged Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, to put impeachment on the table or I would run against her for her seat as the Congressional Rep in California’s 8th district, I knew the task would be daunting and exciting, but I did not then know the depth of the wonderful resources in San Francisco. Here in Fog City there is a cornucopia of committed and lifelong activists: every social/political/economic/environmental issue here has ardent adherents. Saying all that, there is a toxic (not-so) secret in San Francisco that goes way beyond gentrification and contamination that noxiously emanates from the decommissioned naval shipyard on Hunter’s Point in the economically disadvantaged and predominantly black neighborhood of Bayview.

While many of us spend many hours protesting and fighting against the degradation of our environment and against the killing and looting of our brothers and sisters in Iraq and the environmental destruction of their country, we do, (at everyone’s peril) with equal strength and conviction, turn a blind eye to the toxicity and injustices being perpetrated right in our own back yard here in San Francisco.

The Hunter’s Point Naval shipyard is one of the most toxic Super Fund sites (radium, uranium, chromium, asbestos…you name it) in the world with low-income housing abutting the boundaries. No one has been in a rush to clean it up to develop, let alone for the health of the neighborhoods. As a matter of fact Lennar Corp (a national builder legendary for its corruptions and contaminations) stirred up more air-born toxins when it started to grade a parcel of the shipyard for five weeks without any pollution detectors monitoring their crimes. The EPA has never visited the polluted Parcel A that was sold to Lennar by the City of San Francisco for the hefty sum of one dollar. A Bayview activist told me she would give Lennar a buck-fifty to get it back. Schools and homes are within feet of the newly stirred and flying asbestos contamination.

Parcel A is the cleanest of the several parcels that now divide the shipyard for future gentrification projects. Parcel E is the most contaminated and that is the spot where some beleaguered elected officials want to build a new stadium for the San Francisco 49ers.

Few San Franciscans wants to see the team leave San Francisco, but Nancy Pelosi, Senator Dianne (Mukasey supporting) Feinstein (D-CA) and mayor Gavin Newsom (D) are striving mightily to keep the team in the city by promising to build a new stadium on Parcel E. The recent federal budget even appropriated 82 million dollars (a fraction of what it would really cost) to cleanse the area to build a shiny new stadium for a team with one foot in Santa Clara already. No concern was paid to the health issues or corrupt profiteering in the Bayview-Hunter’s Point area until our football team wanted to flee Candlestick Point. ( This hypocrisy was so flagrant even the establishment mouthpiece noticed it). That area is the last developable (read: profitable) land to build remaining in an ocean and bay-locked town. Ms. Pelosi recently said of the project “the money will flow and the dirt will fly”—and basically, let the current residents of Bayview “eat toxic cake.”

The diversity of our communities must be protected from the dehumanization of greed and connections must be made to who benefits (cui bono, people). Whose pockets does the money flow into while the toxic dirt is flying into the schools, homes, parks and lungs of the people of Bayview?

From Iraq to Jena to New Orleans and back to the City by the Bay; racial and economic injustice and immorality needs to be faced and rectified whether the people who are being helped “vote” or not. Like Dr. King said on April 04, 1967, at the Riverside Church in NYC, (exactly one year before his assassination) in his Beyond Vietnam speech:

“Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary spirit and go out into a sometimes hostile world declaring eternal hostility to poverty, racism and militarism…We are now faced with the fact, my friends, that tomorrow is today and we are faced with the fierce urgency of now.”

109. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

completely off politics, but I was pretty thrilled to realize that Shelby Lynne’s new disc came out Tuesday. One of my fav singers.

110. marisacat - 30 January 2008

I remember reading her (sheehan’s) MLK day piece now. The whole thing is so rigged against Hunter’s Point, has been for years. AND the Supervisor from that district is no help. Last I caught her on camerea she was saying there is no toxic problem from materials being kicked up….

AND the sports team, in my estimation, WILL be leaving the City.

111. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

I would be thrilled if Cindy took over 30%. Running against a machine as entrenched and wealthy as Pelosi’s is pretty daunting, but a strong run would be a slap, might weaken her enough for someone to challenge her for the Speaker’s chair.

It sounds, at least from that piece, that Sheehan sees it would have to be a grassroots run, hooked into local activists. I have no idea if that is actually going on.

112. Miss Devore - 30 January 2008

101–don’t you think this is way outta left field?

goddess knows I can’t stand the Clintons, but this kind of story coming up in the nyt, at this time, in this peculiar season…..

It smells a little.

113. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

Ha’aretz Rates the Candidates

Snipping out the order and rankings:

Ha’aretz, the more liberal of the two Israeli English language newspapers, assesses the presidential candidates in a monthly feature called “The Israel Factor: Ranking the Presidential Candidates,” which rates the candidates from 1 to 10, with 10 being “best for Israel” and 1 being worst. The most recent “Israel Factor” appeared on Jan. 17. It should be noted that Republican Congressman Ron Paul is not included in the rankings because the Israeli panelists believe that to do so would be a “waste of time.”

– Rudy Giuliani is, not surprisingly, Tel Aviv’s favorite son. He rates an 8.37

– Hillary Clinton is a surprise number two in the Ha’aretz ranking, with a 7.62.

– John McCain, once the neocons’ anointed as the candidate best equipped to light the flame of freedom in the Middle East, rates a strong but disappointing 7.12.

– Mitt Romney only rates a 6.5

– Former candidate Fred Thompson, also at 6.5

– At the bottom of the heap? Yes, it’s Barack Obama with a 5

Ha’aretz’ “reasoning, with snarky commentary, is included in the piece, fwiw.

114. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 January 2008

I have a link from Antiwar that just went to spam, I think.

115. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

Thanks bayprarie I missed the Newsweek. I bagged them a while ago.

Not your words BP, I know,
But The whole “Friends of Bill” meme is softball I think…
It’s, well, —friendly….
We really live in a legally structured Feudal society with these These Foundations, 501 (c) s and a whole host of other money sheltering scams etc.. with the Fuedal vassals on retainer contained therein….The Clinton Library is a scam, NOW is being pimped out by a married couple — what progress…And on and on, in endless permutations of the old church, union, and Fire Hall scam, but with better catering…

One of my favorites is the Horse Farm conservancy easement scam where the jodhpur set “agrees” by conservation easement to not put a McDonalds in by the swimming pool or museum quality, heated, collector car garage in exchange for tax credits….Good for the air don’t cha know, good to see what the biggest beneficiaries of Coporate Global Warmers are doing for US, the little people.

116. marisacat - 30 January 2008

sorry Madman, jsut got it out of Spam.


Well I think BillHillPill’s Foundation should get looked at. To the extend that it can…. Hell they want an end run around the 22nd Amendment. CLEARLY scams related to the Presidential library, issues and donations is not enough for them, they need the big “Giving” modesty curtain. The whole thing is a joke.

25 years ago I threw something when I read that the Hoo Hoo of Bahrain (iirc) had given 7 mil to Jimmy’s Library. And at least he has tried to do some good. Some.

Just as Obama and Rezko need a good airing out. LOL My guess that will trickle down to the R to really illuminate.

117. marisacat - 30 January 2008

At the bottom of the heap? Yes, it’s Barack Obama with a 5
———– Ha’aretz via Madman

sounds like they did not appreciate the 23 minute conf call fro help from obama, the other day.

118. supervixen - 30 January 2008

105 ms x:

The country is steeped in racism as surely as it’s steeped in sexism. Nobody was, or is, immune.

What did I say that would lead you to think otherwise?

Why would my support of fighting sexism indicate that I don’t also fight against racism?

The quote you cite is typical pseudo-academic claptrap with a political agenda. The authors cite vague allegations about the suffragists with no reference to fact.

The ideal of feminism, like the ideal of the equality of all the races of humanity, is part of the Enlightenment.

119. marisacat - 30 January 2008

LOL a website to help people walk away from foreclosure…

120. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

The Independent has a handy chart of the upcoming primaries and darn! my printer is out of ink. I might just have to crochet myself a copy.

Btw, who’s the genius who scheduled Thursday nite’s Dem debate against the 2 hr return of Lost? [insert pun here]

121. bayprairie - 30 January 2008

Thanks bayprarie I missed the Newsweek. I bagged them a while ago.

yeah thats why i didnt post the link sunday (or whenever?) ::::needs cerebral needles 2:::

anyway its deja vu all over again! entertainment tonight steak with whitewater gravy. you won’t hear a peep about sybil edmunds but bill and his horse trading shady dealing crank the presses. i don’t have a lot of sympthay though. only contempt for him and the press.

a vote for hillary is a vote for bill!

and IB? thats a vera good MEsock.

122. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

goddess knows I can’t stand the Clintons, but this kind of story coming up in the nyt, at this time, in this peculiar season…..

It smells a little.

Isn’t this a prime time to publish it?

123. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

112 Miss Dee , re the Clinton NYT Story
…don’t you think this is way outta left field?… but this kind of story coming up in the nyt, at this time, in this peculiar season…..It smells a little.–Miss D

On the FP of the Hill endorsing NYT? I realize the separation of the Ed Board and the National Desk, but it’s hard to make the axe-grinding case, methinks, even if the scoop was of that origin…
As BP noted, Isikoff is already poking around into the Clinton ex-officio money bonanza,actually from another angle think…

What matters is if the NYT story is legit…Not that the NYT should get a free pass or couldn’t blow it as they – with others- have done before…

Along other lines– True or not, the BlowJob, the “Vince Foster murdered” claim, along with other perceived-as-sensational or over- (ahem) blown claims promotes the over-arching “Clinton as Altruistic Competent Administrator Myth”. It also shields them from an inner truth::: that, really, they’ve really been deal making, self serving hacks on the make, and have been all along. And quite the “get-overs” at it..The Clintons-as-Victims shit is really a hoot…

Every Day the VRWCT shit is talked about, it blurs in with Jerry Springer among otherwise perceptive people. Not saying it’s not there anatomically, but physiologically, in function–Every Day THAT shit is talked about is a day NAFTA and Clinton’s “Do Whatever the Fuck You Want” Record to Banks, Financial institutions, and monied syndicates is ignored..

Not hard to see,as the market and banks now nosedive, that Goldman Sachs ex-Chair, Former Jersey Sen/ now Jersey Gov.Corzine absolutley gushes about Bill and Hill…No, I think the Billary D’s and the Bushite GOP need to “go halfsies” on the economy..as they truly desreve to on a criminal war…

The NYT article to me reeks that Clinton have a personal stake WRT winners and losers in the Russian, ME , Central Asian, and supply to India Oil and Gas WAR.
Chelsea will be left well situated indeed…..

What smells to me is the Clinton Foundation, the Library, the Archives, which, like Poppy B’s,- has the most onerous policies and restricted access to Presidential archivist researchers going…

Not naive here while saying this, but Jerry Ford or Jimmy Carter they’re not. They make even ex-officio Nixon and Reagan look positiveley Amish in their self serving indulgence.

Me no likey da Clinton….along with the rest…

124. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

Apologies to BP for missing your link as well.

125. liberalcatnip - 30 January 2008

This is disturbing in more ways that one:

BEIJING — A huge state-owned Chinese pharmaceutical company that exports to dozens of countries, including the United States, is at the center of a nationwide drug scandal after nearly 200 Chinese cancer patients were paralyzed or otherwise harmed last summer by contaminated leukemia drugs.

Chinese drug regulators have accused the manufacturer of the tainted drugs of a cover-up and have closed the factory that produced them. In December, China’s Food and Drug Administration said that the Shanghai police had begun a criminal investigation and that two officials, including the head of the plant, had been detained.

The drug maker, Shanghai Hualian, is the sole supplier to the United States of the abortion pill, mifepristone, known as RU-486. It is made at a factory different from the one that produced the tainted cancer drugs, about an hour’s drive away.

The United States Food and Drug Administration declined to answer questions about Shanghai Hualian, because of security concerns stemming from the sometimes violent opposition to abortion. But in a statement, the agency said the RU-486 plant had passed an F.D.A. inspection in May. “F.D.A. is not aware of any evidence to suggest the issue that occurred at the leukemia drug facility is linked in any way with the facility that manufactures the mifepristone,” the statement said.
Because of opposition from the anti-abortion movement, the F.D.A. has never publicly identified the maker of the abortion pill for the American market.

The anti-abortion terrorists have won on that front.

126. bayprairie - 30 January 2008

Apologies to BP for missing your link as well.

well thats just it, you didnt miss it. i just put it up as mate to the NYT piece. i had thought about linking la newsweek earlier in the week but then went “hmmmm. nah. its newsweek!” still though with the NYT piece appearing its interesting that its suddenly an item of interest at two of the major organs.

orchestra warming up?

127. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

Well then apologies for being clueless. 😀

128. BooHooHooMan - 30 January 2008

OOOh Link mating. 😀

129. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Bayprarie on Clinton Fate in the Media…
orchestra warming up?- Bayprarie

Definitely, Sooner or later ,…inevitably so…I bet the the various Media Co.’s have some internal financial projections on their books, some where under Projected Revenues , maybe under Ass Clown Receivables, something under “Clinton”, the corporate ( and media) gift that keeps on giving as it were….

130. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

A link I couldn’t pass up, off the FP of NYT

And Blessed Are the Singing, Pole-Dancing Fetishists

131. ms_xeno - 31 January 2008

sv, #118.

Well, then color me baffled. I still don’t understand your problem with my original link. Particularly since, so far as I know, sadie_sabot isn’t part of the humanist-not-feminist camp. (Shrug) Fine. I’ll be a “pseudo-academic.” Whatever. I didn’t quote fucking Ann Coulter but a pair of writers genuinely interested in feminism, not in throwing it out wholesale. Critiquing does not automatically equal a call for wholesale disposal.

I stand by my original assertion that Pappas’ defense of Hillary is a crock of shit. By my standards at least, Hillary is no more a feminist because she takes NOW’s money than I am a concert cellist because I own some Dvorak quartets on CD. I haven’t really got anything else to say about that.

132. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008
133. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

And Blessed Are the Singing, Pole-Dancing Fetishists

Oh, that’s an actual title? I thought you’d made it up. 🙂

134. bayprairie - 31 January 2008

welp, we’ll see. i just googled “clinton Giustra” and only got six hits. but the NYT piece has already been been picked up by MSNBC. i bet it’ll make some more late editions today and of course it’s up at drudge. whats interesting though is there’s a story behind a paywall with the dateline of Jan 17. the text visible at google says

Giustra, Clinton host fete
Globe and Mail, Canada – Jan 17, 2008
Proceeds raised at the March 1 event will go to the Clinton-Giustra Sustainable Growth Initiative, the charitable endeavour launched by the two men last …

but if one follows the link all you get in front of the paywall is

Giustra, Clinton host fete


Vancouver mining mogul Frank Giustra and former U.S. president Bill Clinton are asking Bay Street to dig deep for a chance to attend a charity event in Toronto featuring musician Elton John, comedian Robin Williams and actor John Travolta.

clinton-giustra sutainable growth initiative. nice.

a vote for ma kettle is a vote for pa!

135. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Catnip, that link of yours was irresistable too
I actually checked in at the FleshFeast Check-point.

136. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008
137. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

If we don’t watch out, soon peeder will be erecting his own little wall to keep out the undesirables.

138. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

paging Frank Guistra in moderation…you’re wanted on the white courtesy phone.

139. bayprairie - 31 January 2008

from the pappas piece

And I, your writer, certainly speak from the belly of the beast. I was in Iowa for ten days with other feminist leaders, donating our personal time and money to help with Hillary’s campaign.

hardly a disinterested opinion.

140. marisacat - 31 January 2008

SORRY! Catnip out of spam… 😉


Lemme repeat, I posted the Pappas a couple days ago FOR HER CHECK LIST of failures from Ted Kennedy…

I applaud all splits and vengeful cage matches in the party. Any and all, I don’t care how odd, or fringe or emotional or reactionary or or or.

Fuck em all.

NOW (National, Gandy) STUPIDLY endorsed Hillary over a year ago. Geesh, can they get more compliant. Prolly just followed Emily’s List which, afaiac, will give money to any woman running who can SPELL abortion…

141. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

late nite bad html disorder once again rears its ugly head…

142. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

BP I was checking around too, crickets at CNN WaPo Politico thus far about the NYT/Newsweek WRT Bill Slush money…Funny because WaPo owns Newsweek IIRC…

As an eyebrow raiser , it almost looks like somebody pulled a string to have a WaPo piece featured on a Gorby Foundation Fete in London


Hmm the fuck indeed. The fucking link is gone..

Fuck its plain gone on another tab while I’m writing on this one, let me refresh the screen again and look…Here it is

Jesus they actually had it as one of the lesser Bold point Headers and have backed off into a smaller link as “Other Headlines” in the time I started to write this comment…

heading for the aluminum foil…LOL

143. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Mcat sorry. Could you please fix my HTML link in 142. I never make mistakes see, catnip sneezed on me and…LOL

144. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

SORRY! Here, let me try again, the link I put up on the confounding Gorby Foundation Moneymen Fete Story was wrong all the way around


Hopefully this works..

145. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

I didn’t think there was much substance to that Newsweek bit about the Clinton/Guistra connection. It seemed rather weak.

146. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Thanks mcat..
(But really, something should be done about the others)– LOL.

147. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

catnip sneezed on me

Don your full body condom! This could get ugly.

148. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record

And who was it who proposed granting China the “most favoured nation” status?

No one’s hands are clean in that realm – not the Dems or the Republicans.

149. liberalcatnip - 31 January 2008

And I don;t know wtf the NYT is on about when Bush hosted Kzahkstan’s presdient at the WH in Sept 2006. (Whitehouse site lnk).

So how exactly did Clinton “undercut Amercian foreign policy” ?

We’ve just had a very important and interesting discussion. We discussed our desire to defeat extremism and our mutual desire to support the forces of moderation throughout the world. I thanked the President for his contribution to helping a new democracy in Iraq survive and thrive and grow.

President George W. Bush walks with Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev out to the Rose Garden at the White House, Friday, Sept. 29, 2006, following their meeting in the Oval Office. White House photo by Eric Draper I thank very much the President for his concerns about Afghanistan’s democracy, and his willingness to help in Afghanistan. We talked about our mutual — our bilateral relations, and our mutual desire to — for Kazakhstan to join the WTO. We talked about our commitment to institutions that will enable liberty to flourish.

I have watched very carefully the development of this important country from one that was in the Soviet sphere to one that now is a free nation. And I appreciate your leadership, Mr. President. And I welcome you here to the White House, and I’m looking forward to buying you lunch. (Laughter.)

150. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

I think we practically live in a “Post SmokingGun” era WRT white collar corporate scams…or as someone put it here the crime is the fact that alot of the shit can cloaked with legality…ness…

151. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

LOL catnip 😀

152. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

But the whole thing is they’re all armpit deep in the feeding trough..
With armies and aircraft sorties at their call..

153. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Funny, with truth in jest.

How could Hillary NOT know about this? (18+ / 0-)

BC: “Hey, Hillary, I’ll see ya later. I gotta fly to Kazakstan.”

HRC: “What for?”

BC: “Oh…nuthin'”

Yea, that’s gonna fly.

The Republicans won’t run against Hillary Clinton. They’ll run against Bill.

by DemocraticOz on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:53:50 PM PST

154. D. Throat - 31 January 2008

I didn’t think there was much substance to that Newsweek bit about the Clinton/Guistra connection.

You must be joking!!! Now who is singing Hallelujahs????

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

155. marisacat - 31 January 2008

well I certainly DO agree that this is a fortuitously well timed “leak” or uncovering or whatever for the forces lining up against Hill.

I have never seen a really definitive comemntary on where they spend their nights. There are refernces they hardly live together for lengths of time… I assume she is largely in DC or NYC… and I would think Bill has some condo tuckd away somewhere a bit out of the way in NYC…

they have several houses…

156. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Well it can be officially called a kerfluflle, certainly…

A sampling from the heading ttowards a thousand
comment rec list piece
The story… (8+ / 0-)

The story seems to indicate that Clinton used AIDS work as a cover.

(-2.75, -4.92) | Barack Obama 2008: Yes, we can.

by Addison on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:57:30 PM PST

[ Parent ]

That is COMPLETELY disgusting. (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
jkennerl, Patricia Taylor, Nick Blas, kyril

Just totally and completely off the charts cruel.


The Republicans won’t run against Hillary Clinton. They’ll run against Bill.

by DemocraticOz on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:02:52 PM PST

[ Parent ]
Sigh (5+ / 0-)

Don’t go there. There is nothing in the story to indicate such a thing. Seriously.

I’m not a fan of Mr. Bill lately but I’m not going to go out on a limb and say he’s using AIDS as a cover for nefarious schemes.

That’s just silly.

No, I just read it somewhere. – Tom Stoppard

by BettyPageisaBlonde on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:11:28 PM PST

[ Parent ]
Uh… (4+ / 0-)

Obviously this is from the NYT story:

“”””The publicly stated reason for the visit was to announce a Clinton Foundation agreement that enabled the government to buy discounted AIDS drugs. But during a news conference, Mr. Clinton wandered into delicate territory by commending Mr. Nazarbayev for “opening up the social and political life of your country.”””””

The use of “cover” as the word to describe it is probably way too loaded though…

(-2.75, -4.92) | Barack Obama 2008: Yes, we can.

by Addison on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:15:25 PM PST

[ Parent ]
Wow, just wow (2+ / 0-)

“I may have fucked my life up flatter than hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker.”

by John R on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:37:21 PM PST

[ Parent ]

Will Congress look into it? (2+ / 0-)

If it was a Republican, they’d be holding hearings next month, putting everyone under oath. We all know that.

by Lois on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:29:05 PM PST

[ Parent ]

Joementum can if he wants to (1+ / 0-)

He is the chair of the Government Oversight Committee, which could feasibly hold hearings into this. For once, I’d be happy if Joementum decided to hold hearings. We need to get this out before the convention, and give the party a chance to nominate somebody not burned by this toxic garbage.

by The Bagof Health and Politics on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:59:16 PM PST

[ Parent ]

157. marisacat - 31 January 2008

just a thread………….


158. marisacat - 31 January 2008

oh gee…

did some poor soul think that AIDS in AFrica (from the big shit, big ‘see me hear me roar’ as I ‘appear to save black lives on the other side of the world’ charity shits) was


159. BooHooHooMan - 31 January 2008

Nothin yet on MSNBC that ,BTW has Brrrrrreaking!! that Britney taken to hospital again…Nothing on CNN, No CNN, No WaPo, – Crickets….God the Clinton Ops have to be scrambling their ass off to keep this out of the news cycle to get past tonight’s debates hoping it gets lost in the weekend Go Team! wash… If it doesn’t get traction till Monday it won’t till after Super Dupe-er. It’ll seem like a pot shot. I’d buy Fruit of the Loom and Hanes Undie Futures as soon as the markets open today..That is, if I believed in them—.why, clean markets of course…

160. Intermittent Bystander - 31 January 2008

BP at 121 – thats a vera good MEsock.

Shucks. 🙂

I’d like to thank the Academy for this great honor, but I owe my inspiration to a pinche (too many) of CNN, Orange Clockworks, and Projectile Stomach Flu.

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