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In the wake of Ohio and Texas… [UPDATE, prepare to be disappointed] 24 April 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

This appeared from Mr Fish, in Harper’s. LOL I thought it offended everyone… works for me…


UPDATE, 2:15 am

If you disliked the 110th Congress, you may want to begin screaming NOW. Get a head start:

It is still seven months before Election Day, but already senior Democrats are maneuvering to lower public expectations on the key policy issue.

For some senators, the promises made by Sens. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) outside of Washington may not match the political reality on Capitol Hill.

“We all know there is not enough money to do all this stuff,” said Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.), a Finance Committee member and an Obama supporter, referring to the presidential candidates’ healthcare plans. “What they are doing is laying out their ambitions.”

No. They are wilfully conning the conned, again.

[B]ut veterans on Capitol Hill say that getting a sprawling piece of legislation requires broad compromise from both parties and outside groups.

Should the majority party rush the issue through, the minority may hunker down — as was the case with Bush’s Social Security proposal and President Bill Clinton’s attempt at addressing healthcare policy.

If supporters wait too long, however, it could fall victim to the political considerations of the next election cycle.

Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.), a member of Senate Democratic leadership and a key Hillary Clinton ally who also sits on the Finance Committee, said he is “not sure we have the big plan on healthcare.”

Healthcare I feel strongly about, but I am not sure that we’re ready for a major national healthcare plan,” Schumer said.

Schumer said he would focus “on prevention above all and cost cutting until we can get a national healthcare plan.”

I doubt anyone is surprised. I wonder if, once again, the American people will retire to whatever part of their house they go to to scream silently.

And don’t miss the miserable excuse from Mr Meek of Florida:

Rep. Kendrick Meek (D-Fla.), a Clinton supporter who sits on the House Ways and Means Committee, said “the money is not necessarily there right now” to enact the plans and

said calls to end the war in Iraq might consume Washington’s attention.

The healthcare proposals are a “really good start,” he said, but any promises that the next Congress would enact the healthcare plans “at even the beginning of next year to mid-next year would really be political talk at this point.

“I hear on the campaign trail, ‘This is what I’m going to do,’ as if there is not a Congress here with feelings and experience on this issue,” Meek said.

“I think it’s important that everyone takes that into consideration and that this is not a kingdom, this is a democracy.”

Oh just peachy. Look at the bullshit they lob. All of them, criminals.

I suggest a debate in which the questions are ONLY about their personal finances, affiliations, the affiliations of their spouses. A question for her, then one for him. A thorough airing from Rezko to Bekel. From Bill’s history of being funded by mainland China money (Johnnie Chung) to a timeline of the Obamas’ cash income and outgo. He loves to bleat that in 00 his credit card was refused for a car rental, attempting ot get to the DNC convention. When they took in 240K that year… Air out how the Clintons bought the house in Chappaqua… to say nothing of the Georgian squat in Chicago. And the double wide in Arkansas, the library with a 5,000 sq ft living area…

A tape of Michelle moaning in a very middle class district of Ohio (median income under 48K annually) that it is a struggle to manage $10,000 a year on summer camp.  Let’s see that tape again of HIllary saying Gandhi, if he were an immigrant to the US today, would be pumping gas somewhere in the mid west…

Because nothing else [that old game called policy positions] matters. Ever mattered.

What a con.

BTW, somewhere in The Hill article, it says both camps declined comment.


UPDATE, 3:57 am

End what war where?

Gen. David Petraeus is said to be a “big supporter” of a “massive American-style amusement park” planned for Baghdad, which coincides with a report that ‘Hollywood hopes theme parks, superheroes fly in Middle East.’

(via Cursor)




1. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 April 2008

ooops, popped this at the end of the last thread w/o realizing there was a new one. Curious to see what you think:

I think they’re trying to reassure African Americans in NC & IN (lots of AA in northern IN, in cities like Gary) that he’s not completely disassociating himself from his pastor. That’s my guess on the timing. My guess is that they’ve given up on the working class whites that Wright scares off. It’s all about firming up his core support and running out the clock.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 April 2008

oops, just saw your answer in the other thread … nevermind!

3. marisacat - 24 April 2008

She’s been busy:

Thursday, April 24, 2008

Michigan is becoming Clinton’s secret weapon
Susan J. Demas

If you punched your ballot for “uncommitted” in Michigan’s Jan. 15 Democratic presidential primary to back Barack Obama, your vote might have essentially gone to Hillary Clinton anyway.

While all eyes were locked on Pennsylvania for the last six weeks, Clinton was quietly amassing delegates in the Wolverine State. And she was rewarded this past weekend with a significant victory at the district conventions.

This development naturally has been overshadowed by her big win Tuesday night in Pennsylvania. But the race for the Democratic nomination wasn’t decided then and won’t be by the remaining contests — not North Carolina, Indiana or even Guam — because the real fight is over delegates. And Michigan remains a key battleground.

On Aug. 25, Clinton will march into the national convention in Denver stronger than most people realize, thanks to her aggressive ground game in Michigan. ::snipsnappy::

I landed on this over at Sully, who is facing that it is going to Denver. I can’t be sure, as I all I can do is read the political press and guess, but I felt that Obama, while obviously wanting to cut her off in the negotiations on MI and FL, was also afraid of a revote in either state.

4. diane - 24 April 2008


whether we like it or not, we’re all connected like dominoes |||///__ __ __ __ __ __ __

(cue Van Morrison…….cleanin windows….)

5. ms_xeno - 24 April 2008

To catnip, last thread: You’re welcome.

Fish in a barrel. Marcotte is the poster child for it. :/ Either she genuinely stole from a well-respected and talented blogger or she’s so obsessed with grinding out product, product, product like it’s cut-rate hamburger at the Mal-Wart that she didn’t even remember the existence of a blogger she claimed to have read multiple times before. Either way, she’s an ass for not offering some kind of apology.

6. diane - 24 April 2008

sorry for the poor dominoes illustration…technology is so crude compared to naked human capacity………

7. diane - 24 April 2008

…..and technology never forgives or apologizes…human beings do….

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 April 2008
9. Hair Club for Men - 24 April 2008

Limbaugh has a lot of fans in most police departments. It would be easy enough for him to hint that the Denver police stand down AND send in some provocateurs.

10. diane - 24 April 2008

There were some interesting haps in the PA to FL drug/Oxycontin [sic?] line when Rush escaped to rehab……

I’ve often wondered if one of his ‘masters’ outed him….

11. diane - 24 April 2008

As I recollect an Iranian American in Florida was investigated…re Rush’s weakness…

12. diane - 24 April 2008


But something rather weird (jeez, another except after c, frikken exception) was going on in PA at the time…one of these days…I’ll dig it up….

13. diane - 24 April 2008

Vaguely (as I recollect without verifying),

At around the same time Rush (living in Florida) told his housekeeper, he didn’t need anymore drugs because he was checking himself into rehab, a PA couple who had set up a ‘medical’ clinic, through which they were illegally selling prescription drugs (many of which make their way between PA and FL), had been subpoenaed to show in court, but were murdered in the interim. Their bodies were found along with three others, on the property where a friend of theirs, a PA drug dealer, was residing.

That drug dealer was arrested and while I guess he admitted one or more of the victims was not a ‘friend’, he denied killing all five of them. He soon escaped prison (national headlines, and oddly from the same cell where there had been another infamous escape) presumably landing on his fellow escapee on his way out the cell window, and killing him in the process.

The interesting thing was that after making his way out to where the buried bodies were, presumably to gather exonerating evidence, he surrendered himself to his attorney…….

14. marisacat - 24 April 2008

jesus! i don’t remember all that aftermath…. what was i doing, i wonder. pretty juicy.

15. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008

Isn’t there a law against inciting riots?

16. diane - 24 April 2008


The only thing that seemed to make national headlines was the prison escape, and as I recollect, the drug background really wasn’t highlighted, what looked like an assisted escape, and the death of his fellow escapee was the highlight.

I had started a timeline but shit everywhere was so gruesome at the time…I dropped following up on it after a long period of press silence…

17. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008

5. I’ll choose a). And no apology – to add insult to injury? Why is anybody still reading her stuff?

18. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008

Hamas offers truce in Gaza Strip. I doubt Olmert will agree to end the blockade and who’s going to put pressure on him to do that anyway? Nobody that matters.

19. diane - 24 April 2008


Thought the prisoner he landed on died, apparently not…some Googled pieces:

Haven’t read this 2007 pdf file in it’s entirety: Court Doc. Re Hugo Selenski


1 The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania appeals the trial court’s order dismissing charges of Escape and Weapons or Implements for Escape (the Escape charges) brought against Hugo Marcus Selenski on grounds that the Commonwealth failed to bring the charges to trial within the requisite 365 days prescribed by Criminal Rule 600….

2 This matter arose following an October 11, 2003 prison break from the
Luzerne County Jail where Selenski was incarcerated awaiting trial in
connection with the alleged homicides of several individuals found buried in
his backyard. Selenski and a fellow inmate pried out a window in one of the
jail’s seventh floor cells and, with the aid of rope made of bedsheets, scaled
down the side of the building. Police captured Selenski’s cohort shortly after
the escape and Selenski turned himself in two days later.

CNN re initial prison escape:
Prison escape prompts request for window inspection

20. diane - 24 April 2008


Pieces from fall of 2003 come back to me, I had turned my attention to hours of phone calls re the putrid Medicare Bill that the Dems not only allowed, at least nine signed on…, as Congress also allowed millions no unemployment continuation after they had lost their jobs…people were losing their homes then…how nice for it to finally hit the front page….people in PA were being layed off of jobs weeks short of reaching retirement, one that I recollect had a stroke and died, leaving a wife and children that DC, nor the PA legislature, in all their religious hypocrisy, gave give a fuck about..

Fuck Rush Limbaugh…….

21. diane - 24 April 2008


As winter 2004 approached, the US usurped the Brit/Russian Beagle glory with their successful Mars initiative (wouldn’t be surprised if the Beagle was sabotaged). Who will be the major power to extract minerals from Mars, as humans literally die of hunger, and in the interim solve their prison explosion problem (how many did Ashcroft add to the roles busting head shops as young teenagers dropped like flies from heroin fresh out of a newly industrialized Afghanistan crop, or Mexico?)..

Like I said pass out the picks and the lighted hattsies….

(I really don’t think I’m far off the mark there..)

22. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008
23. NYCO - 24 April 2008

This suggestion on the aforementioned dkos thread where everyone’s baring their soul about their misgivings about Obama’s direction… well, it’s a keeper.

Have staffers review the most-recced Diaries on dKos and select 4-6 of the best bloggers thereby identified, and host a structured but flexible chat with those individuals & Obama himself. Moderate as necessary. Configure the chat to have an associated gallery, where the bloggers can (ahead of time) send images of themselves, and be sure to include a fresh snapshot (or better, a live webcam, low-tech would be fine) of Obama, to increase the sharing & inspiration levels. The man is a phenomenal listener, and he could learn some surprising and refreshing things about just HOW he inspires people, if a handful of thoughtful bloggers were able to share their unique views back to Obama, interactively. Think of the guy (? t’was a guy, right?) who hit the top of the rec list for his tale of sharing time with strangers, watching Obama’s speech on race, and how that guy got invited to a UK radio talkshow. There’s insightful appreciation of Obama out on the internet, perhaps he could get some good recharge out of a structured, time-limited chat space in support of a little serendipity. I’d hope such a chat would make Obama cry, in the best, most heart-touching way. There’s chemicals we don’t get rid of, except through crying, and I think he needs a good soul-catharsis, rather than any sorrow-tears. (Video of him crying is most certainly NOT the point. We don’t even need to know if such happens, I merely hope he can find stress relief that truly vents the toxins that stress produces.)

You can’t make this stuff up.

24. marisacat - 24 April 2008

what to say….

25. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008


26. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 April 2008


27. wilfred - 24 April 2008

ugh, NYC bracing for the Sean Bell verdict tonight. It’s going to be just awful if the cops aren’t convicted.

i was in LA for Rodney King and I wonder what this will be like in comparison. If it was the heat of August I’d be even more worried. Then again, the media here has not been covering it, it’s obviously coordinated so it’s not a daily topic. They cover it just enough to seem like they are not ignoring it but not giving it nearly the coverage it has deserved.

28. melvin - 24 April 2008

Right. Just what Obama needs about now is to get tangled up with those nuts. Presumably if he were insane enough to consider such a step Michele would reel him in.

29. marisacat - 24 April 2008

NYC bracing for the Sean Bell verdict tonight. I

hmm Friday night… wilfred, I wonder if the judge might hold the verdict over the weekend. They have done that here.

In ’92(or whichever year was Rodney King) there was early panic at the Embarcadero Center… the ground floor merchants closed their stores and boarded up. Some people asked to go home, I held tight ’til I heard that white kids were heading over, across the two bridges.

Then I left.

30. NYCO - 24 April 2008

You know, I snickered when I read this, but now I feel guilty for doing so; because all you’d have to do, is replace Obama with some evil unscrupulous figure, change “thoughtful bloggers” to “soulful young women” (and “cry” to, er, some tasteful euphemism like “expend his milky life-force”) and you’d have… something like this:

jeez, pray this guy actually wins in November, or else there’ll be rich pickings for a lot of wolves out there…

31. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008

30. That was quite the trip.

I think you have a great idea for a video, NYCO. Maybe lucid could compose the music. 😉

32. marisacat - 24 April 2008

hmm here is why, from the NYT report:

It is rare to know far in advance the exact date and time of a courtroom verdict, but the timing of this one was announced on April 14 by Justice Arthur J. Cooperman of State Supreme Court, who heard testimony in the case over seven weeks without a jury. Some lawyers not involved in the case said the detectives’ decision to waive a jury trial was a risky legal strategy.

33. wilfred - 24 April 2008

It’s a really weird situation Marisa. The judge heard the case without jury and announced 2 weeks ago that he would announce his verdict tomorrow.

I don’t know the details but it stinks that a jury isn’t hearing the case. They must have known that blacks would have to comprise a portion of the jury and that they would never vote to acquit cops with a 50 bullet barrage on unarmed men attending a bachelor party the night before Bell’s wedding.

My guess is a few of the cops will be convicted of something minor so both sides will be upset and none will be pleased.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 April 2008

According to the NY Times, the verdict is supposed to be at 9 AM. From what I read in my other travels, the judge will give an explanation of his understanding, his reasoning and then the verdict (sorry, can’t remember where I read all that).

I think one reason for the lack of coverage (besides the fact that the media sucks) is that it’s a bench trial, so there isn’t the added drama of 12 “average” people having to make the decision, the resulting news conferences etc. One judge just doesn’t fit into the easy pre-written narrative.

35. NYCO - 24 April 2008

nah, Obama isn’t the bad guy.

But it seems to me that a lot of Americans really, really, really want a special audience with David Koresh. That scares me a bit.

36. wilfred - 24 April 2008

Thanks for that info Madman and Marisa.

I don’t know why but that bench trial smells funny, like there is a tacit understanding that the cops won’t get the book thrown at them but I guess we’ll see in the morning.

37. wilfred - 24 April 2008

Nightline doing the show tonight on Scientology (lol, it’s ‘under attack’ you know!)

38. marisacat - 24 April 2008

well, bench or jury is up to the accused. You have a right to a jury of your peers but you may waive it.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 April 2008

Justice Scalia defends Bush v. Gore ruling

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Justice Antonin Scalia, in an interview to be shown on Sunday, defended the U.S. Supreme Court ruling’s that gave George W. Bush the presidency and said he was not trying to impose his personal views on abortion.

Scalia was interviewed for the CBS News show “60 Minutes,” an appearance timed to coincide with the publication on Monday of the book he coauthored, “Making Your Case: The Art of Persuading Judges.”

It marked the latest in a series of broadcast interviews this year by the conservative justice who once shunned the media.

The nine-member Supreme Court conducts its deliberations in secret and the justices traditionally won’t discuss pending cases in public. The court has the final word on questions of U.S. law and its rulings affect the rights of all Americans.

“I am a law-and-order guy. I mean, I confess to being a social conservative, but it does not affect my views on cases,” Scalia said on CBS, which on Thursday released excerpts of the interview.

Scalia repeated his earlier statement that people should “get over” the court’s ruling in 2000 that halted Florida’s vote recount, giving the presidential election to Republican Bush over Democrat Al Gore.

“I say nonsense,” Scalia said, when asked about critics who say the 5-4 ruling was based on politics and not justice. “Get over it. It’s so old by now.”

Scalia, who has long opposed the court’s landmark Roe v. Wade ruling in 1973 that legalized abortion, said he was not trying to impose his personal views.

“If indeed I were … trying to impose my own views, I would be in favor of the opposite view, which the anti-abortion people would like to see adopted, which is to interpret the Constitution to mean that a state must prohibit abortion,” Scalia said.

He said “there’s nothing” in the Constitution to support that view.

40. wilfred - 24 April 2008

So far the Nightline is interesting, so many parallels between the FLDS stuff and the Scientologists. A cult is a cult is a cult.

41. cad - 24 April 2008

“if a handful of thoughtful bloggers were able to share their unique views back to Obama, interactively.”

And they expect folk like Kos, Dumbini, etc to be the “thoughtful bloggers”?

42. ms_xeno - 24 April 2008


…Why is anybody still reading her stuff?…

Maybe they just show up to read people like Chris Clark or Sheelzebub. It’s a nice thought.

Re #39: Shouldn’t this set off a fresh wave of Thanksralphing all over the Kososphere ? I mean, it’s been well established that these twerps are so fucking stupid that they’d have an appendix removed if their head hurt, which is pretty much what the Nader-blaming amounts to As if Ralph forced the SC to wave Bush through, or as if he forced Gore and the rest of those craven little fucks to wave Scalia and his ilk through in the first place. Bah.

43. marisacat - 24 April 2008

well you know if the Dems did not blame Nader and or Nader voters… they might have to have a coherent thought about Gore and his losing his home state, for one. I have heard every excuse under the sun for losing TENN, one of the most often lobbed is that by 2000 he was hardly from TENN.

Well whoops. His fault. If you cannot win where you come from you better not run for the presidency.

And that does not even start to get into the whole post vote mess capped by the SC “dogs’ breath” ruling, as even Isaacson of CNN called it.

44. diane - 24 April 2008

Well, here’s one way to get a degree (likely the special Board of Directors degree,…and only the special need ‘enroll’)

Panel: WVU improperly granted degree to governor’s daughter

sweet dreams all………

45. liberalcatnip - 24 April 2008
46. melvin - 24 April 2008

43 What a distorted memory they all have. I remember screaming at the time – stop running away from labor, running away from every base there is in the Dem party, running away not just from the bad Clinton but from the good Clinton too, pandering to the sliced and diced statistical middle of the polls just like the opposition and then wondering why you’r fighting over .02 percent of the vote. They just won’t admit that Gore’ candidacy was a disaster in so many ways. So comforting, the big bad Nader that ruined everything. Such bullshit.

47. marisacat - 25 April 2008

hmm George Shultx on with Charlie.. first up, slash entitlements.

Way to gooooooooooooooo… to war forever.

48. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

Fox News holdout Obama to appear on Sunday show

“They realized they’ve got a problem after Pennsylvania,” Wallace told the Hollywood Reporter. “In the end, they do it for their own reasons, not ours. But they realized he needs to be able to reach out to working-class, blue-collar Democrats, moderate to conservative, and that’s our target audience.”

Maybe he can do some of that soul-catharsis crying while he’s there.

49. cad - 25 April 2008

Recall the Concern Troll outrage from the Kossacks when Clinton dared go on FOX? But when Obama does, it’s Kos he has to! I can’t believe the DK faithful are able to keep their heads from spinning off…

50. cad - 25 April 2008

And a glimpse into a deluded DK Obamaton’s mind:


Obama will keep his cool demeanor.
He will stick it to Fox without blowing his top like Bill “I hate black people” Clinton.
He will respond to every loaded question with a deliberate and well thought out answer.
He will give no soundbytes but rather unpack the complicated issues.
He will immediately correct any misinformation, and will laughingly bat down any bullshit/gotcha questions the Fox hacks will try to throw at him.
He will redirect Wallace back to the issues that matter and point out Wallace’s unprofessionalism as a journalist.
He will not speak of HRC.
Obama will prevail.


51. marisacat - 25 April 2008

well his surrogates and high level campaign staff have been on FOX all along. And sometimes with very unctuous greasy cosy segments. I mean, let’s get real.

The whole thing is silly.

52. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008
53. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

50. He will redirect Wallace back to the issues that matter and point out Wallace’s unprofessionalism as a journalist.

Yeah. That’ll go over well. Let’s hope he follows that sage advice.

54. NYCO - 25 April 2008

A comment from the Huffington Post thread on media coverage (allegedly) turning more favorable to Clinton:

The DLC was against Dean and they sent their flacks to the media to tear him down. Then Dean started talking about media regulation and the MSM turned on him, essentially giving a free ride to the same folks who now form Hillary’s inner circle, making Dean, a centrist Democrat into a left wing freak.

Yeah, I remember that.

Say, come to think of it, what has Obama said about media regulation?

I guess to me, that’s the key difference between Dean ’03 and Obama ’08. Dean made “gaffes” (things that are true but which you shouldn’t say), but they were substantive ones about policy and actual issues — things that made powerful people mad, and make them call you “crazy.” Obama has made few gaffes, but the big ones he has made have been about cultural stuff — things that make “the little people” mad.

Rule #1 of idealistic campaigns: Make the powerful people angry. Don’t make the little guy angry.

55. JJB - 25 April 2008

Re the Bell trial, there is nothing sinister about it being decided by a judge. Anyone can decide to waive a jury trial in this fashion, most defense lawyers consider it a bad idea because they always think they can convince at least one juror to vote against conviction. Maybe this judge is notoriously pro-cop, according to the NY Post story I read, he once admonished a rape victim for crying too much in the courtroom. OTOH, if he thinks the cops think he’s a soft touch for them, it might encourage him to throw the book at them. Judges can be very prickly. Remember that Nixon and crew were delighted to have the trial of the Watergate burglers in John Sirica’s courtroom, because they thought he’d just follow the scenario the prosecutors laid out, no questions asked.

56. JJB - 25 April 2008

All 3 cops acquitted. I’d say unbelievable, but it’s not. A badge has become a license to kill.

57. marisacat - 25 April 2008

FP of the

all over it.

58. wilfred - 25 April 2008

This is exactly what I was afraid of, the bench trial was agreed to by all 3 defendants because there was every indication the judge would be favorable. It wasn’t a gamble, they knew they would get off. This judge should be investigated, and thoroughly.

So the 3 cops get off of murder after firing 50 bullets on unarmed black men while Wesley Snipes goes to jail for 3 years. Then if Obama is denied the Dem nomination after winning the popular and electoral votes by the Superdelegates, who would blame blacks for rioting at the convention? Limbaugh will be right there fanning the flames.

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

Hard to believe that one of his major reasons for acquital was the demeanor of the witnesses, “sweating and fidgeting”.

CNN is assuring us that we should feel sorry for the murderers cops.

60. ms_xeno - 25 April 2008

#43 & #46. Tch. I’d love to have some kind of online treasury of every stoopid ass thing that the pwoggie faithful have ever said about Nader, but I’d need at least 18 months to compile all that’s been said. Who knows how long to compile all the crap that’s still piling up. From the LJ baby dems calling him an “extremist” who Obama would be wise to cut dead if he acknowledges the run at all, to the should-be-legendary “Well, Gore WROTE A BOOK !! What has Nader ever done” and on and on.

I don’t know about everyone else’s neck of the woods, but what I see here again and again are people who signed on with the Democrats for the cache. You have to be a Dem because it’s much cooler. Dems get the cool celebs and get laid and Republicans are dowdy and don’t get laid. Yawn. There’s no real insight into what the party actually does, as opposed to the imagery it peddles to the cache-seekers. Try and confront them with Hillary’s warmongering or Obama’s backpeddling on Social Security and watch the platitudes fly. It’s all they want: Platitudes, though there’s substance and real history and real understanding of the political spectrum out there for the taking. It really gets me down to see the way these people think [sic]. They pooh-pooh GOP faithful for embracing the masters who repeatedly rob the public, then they turn around and do the exact same thing. There’s just no perspective at all.

But beat on Nader and everyone feels better. Let McKinney miraculously score 7 to 10% in a poll, and they’ll be ripping her up, too.

61. wilfred - 25 April 2008

The local coverage is AWFUL.
All white newsmen yapping, this alone will inflame people, let alone the horrible verdict.

And we’re having a warm spell and haven’t had rain in weeks. A tinderbox indeed.

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

tried to switch over to MSNBC … they are full-out propaganda mode, passing along the Israel/Pentagon bs that the site bombed in Syria was some kind of nuclear site, and the Koreans were involved.

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008
64. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

Been zoning out a lot of the news, missed this:

Supreme Court: State Law, Even Illegal Arrests Can’t Limit Police Prerogative to Search and Seize

The Supreme Court offered unanimous support for police Wednesday by allowing drug evidence gathered after an arrest that violated state law to be used at trial, an important search-and-seizure case turning on the constitutional limits of “probable cause.”

“When officers have probable cause to believe that a person has committed a crime in their presence, the Fourth Amendment permits them to make an arrest, and to search the suspect in order to safeguard evidence and ensure their own safety,” Justice Antonin Scalia wrote.

David Lee Moore was stopped by Portsmouth, Virginia, officers five years ago for driving his vehicle on a suspended license. Under state law in such incidents, only a summons is to be issued and the motorist is to be allowed to go. Instead, detectives detained Moore for almost an hour, arrested him, then searched him and found cocaine.

At trial, Moore’s lawyers tried to suppress the evidence, but the state judge allowed it, even though the court noted the arrest violated state law. A police detective, asked why the man was arrested, replied, “Just our prerogative.”

Should probably just be glad they didn’t shoot him.

65. Hair Club for Men - 25 April 2008

Then if Obama is denied the Dem nomination after winning the popular and electoral votes by the Superdelegates, who would blame blacks for rioting at the convention?

Yes. Jeremiah Wright’s going to be considered a moderate next year.

Of course there are so many young black men in jail and NYC has so many police on the payroll, I don’t know how far riots will get.

But this WILL make me more aware of the lines between black and white neighborhoods in the city and near where I live.

66. NYCO - 25 April 2008

63. Amanda Marcotte:

I think nowadays retro imagery used by avowed liberals can safely be assumed to be at least an attempt at coy irony. I’m not committing to whether it’s successful or not. I think it’s a fool’s errand to lay claim to definitive interpretations of archly ironic imagery.

I guess every individual really does get promoted to their level of incompetence.

67. marisacat - 25 April 2008

Try and confront them with Hillary’s warmongering or Obama’s backpeddling on Social Security and watch the platitudes fly. It’s all they want: Platitudes, though there’s substance and real history and real understanding of the political spectrum out there for the taking. It really gets me down to see the way these people think [sic].

They pooh-pooh GOP faithful for embracing the masters who repeatedly rob the public, then they turn around and do the exact same thing. There’s just no perspective at all.


yeah agree. There is no difference. One of the silliest things i have seen, there are Dems still out there fighting Kerry’s election season battles for him. He certainly did not care to.

Drenched in propaganda.

68. cad - 25 April 2008

We’re living in a genuine police state. They can arrest my friend for no reason, shoot up a car full of unarmed black men, search and seize, do as they please.

69. diane - 25 April 2008

From the “massive american Style amusement park” update link, ‘Disneyland’ comes to Baghdad with multi-million pound entertainment park:

“Iraq to me is an open field. I have never in my life seen an opportunity with the potential that Iraq has with its skilled workforce and oil reserves.” …

Statement by Llewellyn Werner – “chairman of C3, a Los Angeles-based holding company for private equity firms”

His appalling comment captures in a nutshell the reason Iraq was bombed. Some people really need to read between the lines, place themselves in the shoes of Iraquis and realize what an unbelievably hideous thing the US has done to Iraq.

70. NYCO - 25 April 2008

At the very least, the NYPD better get a goddamn handle on the phenomenon of “contagious shooting.” (before a white person gets killed or something!)

Okay, let’s see it their way: there are no scripts for encounters with suspects, their job is highly dangerous, etc. All right. But don’t police believe in improving their procedures? Is there not some kind of procedure that would lessen the chance of an unarmed suspect (innocent or non) getting shot 19 or 20 times?

And no, I’m not talking about “holding of fire” procedures, I’m talking about how many cops converge on one place.

Well, I’m not in law enforcement so I might be talking out of my rear end here. But why this keeps happening in NYC specifically, needs to be addressed.

71. diane - 25 April 2008


And about those private equity firms, the following Business Week links are instructive:

Perform or Perish

Gluttons At The Gate – Private equity are using slick new tricks to gorge on corporate assets. A story of excess.

(Business Week puts out some really good articles, there was an excellent one putting the lie to the philanthropy of “Micro Loans” in Mexico, about a month ago)

72. diane - 25 April 2008


sorry, I screwed up the italics, only Business Week should be italicised.

73. diane - 25 April 2008

73 Thank you Marisa!

74. wilfred - 25 April 2008

YahooFinance reporting that a oil prices are spiking because a US ship fired on 2 Iranian boats today. Cheney must be jumping with joy.

75. wilfred - 25 April 2008
76. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

Obama-DNC Fundraising Deal

After a series of discussions, the Obama campaign and the Democratic National Committee have decided to file papers with the Federal Election Commission establishing a “joint fundraising agreement.” Under the law, such a committee can accept up to $28,500 from individuals, most of which would go to the DNC.
The committee formed under the agreement is still in search of a final name.

How about ‘Feed the Beast’?

77. diane - 25 April 2008


The Obama camp’s ire at little folk repeating and discussing what goes on behind doors which are closed to the little people (repeated and discussed because the consequences have a direct effect on the entire country) remind me of the reported gutless email Obama sent re the terrifying House Bill 1955, Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act text summary here (full text link available at previous link)

Maybe, that email was a fabrication? I always say lets go to the source: link to comments on Obama’s official site with the tag HR1955 (no comments were made to the sole (anti) HR1955 post). There’s certainly something to be said for omission.

Yes, I’m sure Hilary and John also support the bill, I don’t believe a candidate who doesn’t support the bill would be allowed to successfully run.

Looks like, at some point, in the very near future, we’ll all be putting ourselves at great risk making the comments we make here……………

78. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

Let’s play Attack the Messenger again:

i have my doubts about moyers (0+ / 0-)

given the fact that he is back on the air because of major funding from progressive organzations who i fear might be part of the Suzie Thompkins group of dems who have supported a Clinton candidacy. I haven’t watched the video yet, but in my opinion any appearance by wright at this point in time is going to be spun against obama. has anyone done any research on who moyer’s supporters are backing?

by boatsie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:29:43 PM MDT

Do you now or have you ever supported Hillary Clinton?

79. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

Justice Dept to review wedding day shooting

NEW YORK (Reuters) – U.S. authorities will consider civil rights charges in the case of three New York police detectives who were acquitted on Friday in the shooting death of an unarmed black man killed in a hail of 50 bullets on his wedding day.

The Justice Department will be joined by federal prosecutors in New York and the FBI in a review of the case, the department said.

“They will conduct an independent review of the facts and circumstances surrounding the November 25, 2006, shooting of Sean Bell and two others that resulted in the death of Mr. Bell,” it said in a statement.

80. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

IAEA to probe Syria atomic plant report. ElBaradei isn’t happy about the fact that the IAEA was kept out of the loop.

Mohamed ElBaradei, director of the International Atomic Energy Agency, lambasted Israel for the air strike, saying his inspectors should have been able to verify beforehand whether undeclared nuclear activity had been going on.

“In light of (this, I) view the unilateral use of force by Israel as undermining the due process of verification that is at the heart of the non-proliferation regime,” he said.
ElBaradei, alluding to the United States, deplored a failure to share intelligence information “in a timely manner” about the project, which Washington said was launched in 2001.

A diplomat close to the Vienna-based agency expressed anger at the delay. “There is a lot of annoyance here about the lateness in the day that the IAEA got this information. Had this been given to the IAEA before this damn bombing, then the world might know the true story,” the diplomat said.

Considering the way the US has treated the IAEA in recent years, no big surprise there.

81. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008
82. cad - 25 April 2008

Has Kos posted how outraged he is that Obama is going on FOX?


83. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

82. And show himself to be a hypocrite yet again? I doubt it.

I saw a clip of Obama giving a press conference at a gas station in Indiana (I think it was)…in front of a little podium…wearing a suit. And he wonders why he doesn’t connect with the working-class?

84. marisacat - 25 April 2008

Can’t win for losing. And clearly with all three, H, S AND WH, they might have to do something about the wars and health care. And immigration. Jobs. Housing. Climate. Regulation. Trade. Education.

This way it can go on blowing to hell… as it has for decades..

I mean, why sweat it. Do what the Dems in CA did. Ultimately back Arnold for re election. And they barely said “Boo!” to him during the Recall. The fix was in. Sooo much easier. No stress, no governing. Just service the corporate clients.

Not like preferring that stance is NOOOOOOOOOOOOZ.

[I picked up the Dkos diary thru a post at Ann ALthouse. She, a R supporting ObamaRama, seems fine with it too. Interesting. I don’t think either O or H has a leg up on winning agisnt McC. Just my opinion. It could get very tough either way and McCain ahs at least an even shot. If not better.

85. ms_xeno - 25 April 2008

NYCO #66.

Well, I’ve long suggested/suspected that we’d do well to put the word “ironic” on hiatus for at least a decade. It seems to be one of those words doomed to have become meaningless through sheer overusage and/or misapplication.

Well, what do I know ? My art is chock-a-block with “ironic” imagery, too. OTOH, I haven’t tried to use Aunt Jemima ads therein and pass it off as beyond suspicion because don’t you hypersensitive ungrateful Black folks know I’m your friend and stuff ?


86. ms_xeno - 25 April 2008

Mcat, #84:

The only thing that keeps me going is the hope that whoever loses the primary will opt for a 3rd Party run in a fit of egomania righteousness. Mike Flugennock at SMBIVA reported recently that Jiffy Pop is back in production. So all I need is a case of that, plus a lot of Fresca and cheap vodka, and it’s all good. :/

87. NYCO - 25 April 2008

Another winning suggestion from Obama’s peanut gallery at dKos…

Here is a premise to get past the Flag “controversy” and show that Obama can make fun of himself. Premise: Jennifer Aniston is wearing a “Chotchkie’s” uniform with the suspenders full of American Flag Pins (“Flair”). She starts encouraging Obama to wear more flair. Obama responds, “I am not running for employee of the month of “Chotchkie’s” I am running to be the next president of the United States.” Bonus points if you can get Obama to wear an actual “Chotchkie’s” uniform. Why it will work. It totally deflates the flag issue, showing how ridiculous it is. Who doesn’t love office space, it is a classic movie. Finally, He shows that he can make fun of himself, taking away the argument that he is an elitist. I fully give the obama campaign and/or anyone else permission to expand upon this Idea so long as I at least get some credit.

Like I said, you can’t make this stuff up.

(Especially the last bit)

88. NYCO - 25 April 2008

PS can someone tell me where all the Clintonistas are hanging out and giving their brilliant suggestions? Just in the interests of equal time…

89. marisacat - 25 April 2008


luv Fresca. My neighbor called Wednesday and said he was putting in an order for Safeway, did I want anything included. I checked, they had a promotion on Fresca, if you bought 2 / 12 packs, you got an additional 3 packs of 12 for free. Too good to pass up! LOL I am set for Fresca at the moment.

90. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

Need a break from all of this depressing stuff? I offer Ukulele Blitzkrieg Bop.

91. liberalcatnip - 25 April 2008

rofl, NYCO.

92. marisacat - 25 April 2008


NYCO, I think there is a Clinton contingent at MyDD. And I suspect some at Open Left.

Jeralyn and Armando are big supporters of hers, so Talk Left has multiple threads per day devoted to her. A devotional center one might say… LOL.

93. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

Just got home from seeing Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay, an amazing string of offensive/funny/biting/annoying sex and fart jokes (with a stoned Dubya to boot) and cutting satire of Americans’ penchant for indulging their prejudices. Not as good as the first one.

PS: avoid it if you really can’t stand misogyny, homophobia, toilet humor or Neal Patrick Harris.

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

81 – I predict something will happen the evening of August 24th.

95. marisacat - 25 April 2008

BTW, here is a good laugh. Maybe to compete, Obama needed to wear a Knights of Columbus pin or soemthing. Or achieve some transactional induction to the Knights of Malta.

96. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008
97. marisacat - 25 April 2008


you are right Madman, they will find a way to screw the convention. I mean, why not. NTIM (not that it matters)

98. marisacat - 25 April 2008

Tsk. Madman.

But Obama said we are a nation of laws and must respect the judge’s ruling.

I translate that to “eat dirt and die”. And I am sure H and McC said something similar.

99. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

good thing I don’t listen to false messiahs.

I would actually make that “eat dirt and die with a thankful smile”.

100. marisacat - 25 April 2008

oh too right, of course with a smile. How could i forget.

101. Arcturus - 25 April 2008

heard a Haitian woman on radio recently give a recipe for mud cookies

Scott Ritter:

Largely overlooked in the wake of the US revelations is the fact that, even if the US intelligence is accurate (and there is no reason to doubt, at this stage, that it is not), Syria had committed no crime, and Israel had no legal justification to carry out its attack. Syria is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and under the provisions of the comprehensive safeguards agreement, is required to provide information on the construction of any facility involved in nuclear activity “as early as possible before nuclear material is introduced to a new facility”. There is no evidence that Syria had made any effort to introduce nuclear material to the facility under construction.

While the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the global watchdog responsible for the implementation of nuclear safeguards inspections, has pushed for the universal adherence to a more stringent safeguards standard known as the “additional protocol of inspections”, such a measure is purely voluntary, and Syria has refused to sign up to any such expansion of IAEA inspection activity until such time as Israel signs the NPT and subjects its nuclear activities to full safeguards inspections. While vexing, the Syrian position is totally in keeping with its treaty obligations, and so it is Syria, not Israel, that was in full conformity with international law at the time of Israel’s September 6 2007 attack.

. . . By bombing the Syrian facility, Israel not only retarded any Syrian nuclear ambition, peaceful or otherwise, but also precluded a full, definitive investigation into the matter by the international community. Perhaps fearful that Syrian adherence to the NPT would underscore its own duplicity in that regard, the Israeli decision to bomb Syria not only allowed the Syrian effort to be defined as weapons-related (an unproven and unlikely allegation), but by extension reinforced the Israeli (and American) contention that the nuclear activity in Iran was weapons-related as well.

The international debate that has taken place about the Syrian facility shows how successful the Israeli gambit, in fact, was, since there is virtually no discussion about the fact that Israel violated international law in attacking, without provocation, a sovereign state whose status as a member of the United Nations ostensibly affords it protection from such assault. The American embrace of the Israeli action, and the decision to produce intelligence information about the nature of the bombed facility at this late stage in the game, only reinforces the reality that the United States has turned its back on international law in the form of arms control and non-proliferation agreements.

{I think I’ve finally de-bugged & regained control of my computer – what a pain . . .

102. Arcturus - 25 April 2008

April Howard & Benjamin Dangl:

Fernando Armindo Lugo Méndez was born in 1951. As a young man, he taught in a rural school district which, according to reporter Andrew Nickson at Open Democracy, “was so remote that he was able to escape the usual rule that teachers had to be members of the Colorado Party [the right-wing party ruling the country for 60 years].” In 1977, Lugo was ordained as a Catholic priest, and worked as a missionary in indigenous communities in Ecuador until 1982. He then spent 10 years studying at the Vatican, at which time he was appointed head of the Divine Word order in Paraguay. In 1994 he became the Bishop of the Paraguayan department of San Pedro. Though Lugo was frequently away from Paraguay, he did not avoid the repercussions of the Alfredo Stroessner dictatorship and its conservative influence. In fact, three of Lugo’s brothers were exiled and the conservative Catholic hierarchy pressured him to resign as bishop due to his support for landless families’ settlements on large estates owned by absent elites.

However, Lugo’s resignation as bishop also allowed him to realize his ambitions as a presidential contender. On December 25, 2006, Lugo announced he would run for president in the 2008 contest. As a candidate, he is riding the waves of discontent of a population that’s tired of Paraguayan business as usual. After leading a march and rally in early 2006 protesting the civil rights abuses committed by president Duarte Frutos, his popularity rose.

At first, Lugo’s candidacy was impeded by the fact that the Vatican did not accept his resignation, which allowed Colorado party members to claim that his candidacy would be unconstitutional, as clergy members can’t hold political office in Paraguay. However, a legal team soon established that this was not the case, and he has become “a disturbingly credible threat to the Colorados.”

. . .

Meanwhile, the left’s main option in the midst of this heavily right-wing election season is Fernando Lugo. Lugo represents a wide coalition of opposition forces whose interests probably don’t coincide past the rejection of Colorado rule. Neither experienced nor completely radical, [Paraguayan sociologist Tomas] Palau says Lugo is “more befuddled than a yuppie in the middle of the jungle.”

. . .

While Fernando Lugo is the only candidate that represents change from the Colorado regime, for many Paraguayans he is at most a step in the right direction, and does not represent a new face in the pantheon of leftist leaders being elected across the continent. As a centrist, Lugo finds himself in the perhaps uncomfortable position of being a radical alternative to the 60 year Colorado rule. Lugo is evidence that to be considered a “leftist” in Paraguay only requires having political views that are “less right.” {heh! sound familiar?}

Though many see Lugo as someone who has experience with rural social conflicts and connections with the campesino movement, it would be a mistake to see him (as many on the right do) as “the red bishop,” a radical heir to the liberation theology movement.

. . .

Lugo has been careful to distance himself from leaders who have used natural resources to fund new government programs. . . . Lugo has taken pains to maintain a friendly distance from Caracas, and has not used anti-Washington rhetoric to stir up his supporters. . . .

In terms of economic changes, Lugo seems unlikely to cause too many ripples.

I wonder if that bit from J Ross about Lugo closing the military base was an instance of playing to a Mexican crowd? doesn’t sound like he’s making those noises at home

103. marisacat - 25 April 2008

Arcturus out of Moderation AND Spam…


104. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

Of course, Iran has been in compliance w/ that treaty too (unlike Israel and Pakistan), not that it’s made any difference.

105. marisacat - 25 April 2008

Fox News Sunday: Obama

Face the Nation: Obama strategist Axelrod, Clinton strategist Wolfson

Meet the Press: Dean

This Week: Sen. Bayh, Tom Daschle, Reps. Artur Davis, Sheila Jackson Lee

Late Edition: Sen. Feinstein, Rep. Hoekstra, Clinton foreign policy adviser Rubin, Obama foreign policy adviser Rice

Plus: Cindy McCain to appear on NBC’s “Tonight Show” next Wednesday.

106. Arcturus - 25 April 2008

the tatters of that treaty still make for mighty nasty quirt in the ‘proper’ hand- & don’t leave India off the list of non-compliers we’d love sell to – busy busy Biden – no one notices Brazil’s enrichment prog – atoms for peace!

. . . we’ve danced this dance before

107. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

we have a couple of centuries worth of applying treaties only when it suits us, so why stop now?

108. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 April 2008

Manhattan Basement Sells for $801K

NEW YORK (AP) — Looking for another sign that Manhattan real estate prices aren’t headed for the cellar? A basement storage room in the famed Dakota apartment building fetched $801,000 in a recent sale.

High prices are nothing new for the Dakota, a gorgeous, gabled palace overlooking Central Park, best known as the home of John Lennon and the scene of his 1980 assassination. Yoko Ono still lives there and its apartments routinely sell for many millions of dollars.

The room’s buyer, hedge fund manager John Angelo, said the price was reasonable, considering what he’s getting.

The space is 800 square feet and has 20-foot-high ceilings and two windows, he said, making it bigger than many apartments in Manhattan, where a studio can be as small as 300 square feet and the median price for an apartment is over $850,000.

His storage space also has a bathroom and electricity. “I could make it a squash court if I wanted,” Angelo said, only half joking.

He said he plans to turn the room into a small gymnasium and open it up for use by other residents of the building, which, for all its luxury, doesn’t have a common exercise room.

Angelo and his wife already live in the Dakota. They acquired the basement space from a departing resident, Juliana Curran Terian, who sold her apartment for $20.5 million in January. That unit was once owned by the composer Leonard Bernstein. She sold the storage room separately.

While $801,000 may sound like a lot for a basement den that cannot legally be used as a dwelling, it isn’t unusual to see well-off Manhattanites paying top dollar for auxiliary space, said real estate appraiser Jonathan Miller.

109. diane - 25 April 2008

Just got my hardcopy Business Week in the mail; yet another private equity piece, The Midas of Misery – Vulture investors are a changing breed….

While the author seems far to supportive of the vultures in this article, it’s still well worth the read. To my mind, business mags are far more transparent than many media outlets, possibly due to absence of any inkling of shame in their worship of what they term ‘Capitalism’.



Justice Dept to review wedding day shooting

yeah, “review” = non-event, for sole purpose of steam venting righteous anger of the victimized.

110. diane - 25 April 2008


jeez sorry didn’t end the stupid link (there’s only one link, at the top: Midas of Misery)

111. Arcturus - 25 April 2008

Arcturus out of Moderation

prolly ne’er had much to begin w/ . . .

112. diane - 25 April 2008


Thanks for that link Madman.

113. marisacat - 25 April 2008

nu thred……………………


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