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Outward bound… 26 May 2008

Posted by marisacat in Divertissements, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

Unfurled solar assay – Phoenix – Mars – NYT

[A]t 9:53 p.m., there were more cheers as confirmation came that one more critical event, the unfolding of the solar arrays, had occurred without problem. And then the first pictures arrived: black-and-white images of the solar panels, of one of the lander’s footpads and of surrounding terrain, showing the polygonal fractures caused by repeated expansion and contraction of the underground ice.

The next few days will be spent checking the condition of the spacecraft. Then it will begin the first up-close investigation of Mars’s northern polar region. Instruments on the spacecraft include a small oven that will heat the scooped-up dirt and ice to 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit. Analyzing the vapors will provide information on the minerals, and that will, in turn, provide clues about whether the ice ever melted and whether this region was habitable. The mission is to last three months, with the possibility of a two-month extension.

“We see Phoenix as a stepping stone to future investigations of Mars,” Dr. Smith said. ::snip::


Madman posted this near the end of the last thread… and it fits in here…

A Kunstlerian take on Memorial Day:

I had a discussion with one guy at a Sunday night party about the prospects for hydrogen-powered cars. We rehearsed the usual reasons why such a system was unlikely to get up-and-running — and then he said, “…but what if we took all the money from the war and put it into something like the space program and… they came up with some way to make it happen…!”

This is certainly the golden heart of the great wish out there, as the empire of Happy Motoring begins to run down on $4 gasoline. It seems inconceivable that a society so bold as to put men on the moon (fer crissake) can’t overcome such a prosaic problem as finding something other than oil byproducts to run our cars on.

From this holy font all cognitive dissonance flows.

It seems inconceivable, but it begins to look like that’s the way it really is, and we just can’t accept it.

Of course, one of the reasons that Americans are so anxious to get away on a holiday weekend from the places where they live is because we did such a perfect job the past fifty years turning our home-places into utterly unrewarding, graceless nowheres, where the private realm of the beige houses is saturated in monotony, and the public realm has been reduced to the berm between the WalMart and the strip mall. Now, we barely have the gasoline to run all this stuff, let alone escape from it for a weekend.


This too from the last thread, languished in moderation… fits in here…


Showdown in Dallas: ExxonMobil faces shareholder revolt

A showdown looms at the company’s annual shareholders meeting Wednesday in Dallas, Texas, with a series of proposals aimed at changing ExxonMobil’s corporate structure and pushing the company toward more environmentally friendly energy sources.

While activist shareholder resolutions are not uncommon, the move at ExxonMobil is unusual in that it has support from major institutional investors as well as the storied Rockefeller family, whose ancestor John D. Rockefeller created Standard Oil, the main forerunner of the current company.

Fred and Wilma get a little dabba do time in Brussels:

Six Greenpeace activists dressed as cavemen and travelling in a Flintstones-style vehicle were detained along with three others for public order offences, police said.

A stone tablet accusing car lobbyists of driving climate change was confiscated before it could be delivered to lawmakers, a Greenpeace spokeswoman said.

Photos of zero-emission vehicle and cave posse here.



1. NYCO - 26 May 2008

I thought of Kunstler for some reason today when I hauled out a 40-year-old Weber grill out of storage and cleaned it up. Maybe the backyards of suburbia will one day be filled with the smell of roasting meat, and not just for cookouts… but every day… because there’s no electricity…

2. NYCO - 26 May 2008

From last thread, the “Walk Score”:

That scoring thing is cute, but produces weird scores. My neighborhood got a 69 but whoever devised the scoring system isn’t taking into account the characteristics of various roads that have to be crossed. I can’t walk to a grocery store without (probably) getting run over by speeding cars, so how on earth am I supposed to walk back to my house with a week’s worth of groceries across that street?

3. marisacat - 26 May 2008

I htink the Walk Score only takes distance into account… or that is how it seems to me.

My neighborhood gets nearly the max, 97, as I am adjacent to a long time shopping street that has everything. Movie theatre, hardware store, vet, pet supply, physical therapy, on and on. LOL Shrinks.. you name it… etc.

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008

2 – probably no way to include sidewalks and busy intersections … I did find a couple of cafes that I wasn’t aware of b/c they aren’t on my usual walking/bus routes, yet are not far from here.

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008

1 – the question is what kind of meat? Taking his dystopic predictions to heart, I imagine beef won’t be on that grill. Maybe chickens raised by oneself or a neighbor? Squirrel (greasy and gamy … never want to have it again)?

6. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

5. Squirrel (greasy and gamy … never want to have it again)?

Now I’m having Huckabee flashbacks. Thanks. 😉

7. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008


Urban farming has always been a slightly quixotic endeavor. From the small animal farm that was perched on the roof of the Upper West Side’s Ansonia apartment building in the early 1900s (fresh eggs delivered by bellhop!) to community gardens threatened by real-estate development, the dream of preserving a little of the country in the city is a utopian one. But nobody has ever dreamed as big as Dr. Dickson Despommier, a professor of environmental sciences and microbiology at Columbia University, who believes that “vertical farm” skyscrapers could help fight global warming.

Imagine a cluster of 30-story towers on Governors Island or in Hudson Yards producing fruit, vegetables, and grains while also generating clean energy and purifying wastewater. Roughly 150 such buildings, Despommier estimates, could feed the entire city of New York for a year. Using current green building systems, a vertical farm could be self-sustaining and even produce a net output of clean water and energy.

Despommier began developing the vertical-farming concept six years ago (his research can be found at verticalfarm .com), and he has been contacted by scientists and venture capitalists from the Netherlands to Dubai who are interested in establishing a Center for Urban Sustainable Agriculture, either independently or within Columbia. He estimates it could take a working group of agricultural economists, architects, engineers, agronomists, and urban planners five to ten years to figure out how to marry high-tech agricultural practices with the latest sustainable building technology.

What does this have to do with climate change? The professor believes that only by allowing significant portions of the Earth’s farmland to return to forest do we have a real chance of stabilizing climate and weather patterns. Merely reducing energy consumption—the centerpiece of the proposal Al Gore recently presented to Congress—will at best slow global warming. Allowing forests to regrow where crops are now cultivated, he believes, would reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as least as much as more-efficient energy consumption.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008

Talk to Hamas!

Q. Does Hamas accept the three condition imposed by the international community for the resumption of talks: recognize Israel, renounce violence and ratify existing Israeli-Palestinian agreements?

First, the so-called “international community” is usually the United States and Israel. Let’s call things the way they are: there are 5 billion other people in this world who are not Westerners and who challenge the right of Westerns to speak for the whole world. As to these three “conditions”, they have been invented to prevent dialog. Israel once even passed laws forbidding any Israeli citizen from talking to any member of the PLO using the same reasoning. It’s always a struggle to understand who comes up with these conditions and why.

9. marisacat - 26 May 2008

Castro answers ObamaRama… apparently a column appeared in a government issue newspaper in Cuba… so only quotes and paraphrases… via CNN Politicalticker…

LOL How soon til Chavez, who must be laughing, pops up….

10. moiv - 26 May 2008

Madman, what kind of squirrel did you have that was greasy and gamy? Quelle horreur! All the squirrel I’ve had — whether fried or stewed — has always been tender and good, the taste halfway between chicken and rabbit.

And as a daughter of the East Texas Piney Woods, I’ve et a whole mess of ’em. 😉

11. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008

scrawny central IL gray squirrel. Ick.

12. marisacat - 26 May 2008

English translation of Fidel on Obama, via Granma.cu

13. marisacat - 26 May 2008
14. Arcturus - 26 May 2008

o yea, the exuberant triumphalist hurrah of golly-gee-whizz scientific angelism


15. jam.fuse - 26 May 2008


‘The first diesel engines (by Rudolph Diesel in 1894) were invented to run on hempseed oil; petroleum wasn’t synthesized to mimic hempseed oil for over a decade. Therefore hempseed oil was the primary fuel for automobiles for over 30 years after the invention of the first internal combustion engine.

Cannabis Prohibition is really about money and the continued centralization of economic and political control. Hemp seed oil is biodiesel and is three times more productive than any other seed oil crop, and hemp seed oil will run any diesel engine today with no modification. Hemp oil is the reason the petrochemical industry made up the “reefer madness” myth. They renamed hemp, using racist propaganda, calling it marijuana, and lied to make it illegal. There is a truth that must be heard!’

from http://www.crrh.org

hi everyone.

[fixed the link — Mcat]

16. jam.fuse - 26 May 2008
17. marisacat - 26 May 2008


are you in Berlin? Or back visiting?

How are you? How was is Berlin?

18. IB - 26 May 2008

7 – That skyfarming story is pretty durn cool. Reminds me a little of the set-up on the Jesuit spaceship in Mary Doria Russell’s The Sparrow (or maybe the sequel, Children of God).

Betcha could fine-tune a rig like that to produce only the tastiest squirrels.

19. JJB - 26 May 2008

In a speech today in New Mexico, John McCain said the following:

“In Vietnam, where I formed the closest friendships of my life, some of those friends never came home to the country they loved so well,” Mr. McCain said. “I detest war. It might not be the worst thing to befall human beings, but it is wretched beyond all description.

I do wonder just what it is that McCain thinks might be worse than war, and why it is that if he hates it so much, he’s always so determined to keep it going far beyond the point where anything like victory could be achieved.

BTW, he also said he’s opposed to the veterans’ benefits bill recently passed by the Senate (he didn’t show up to cast a vote) because he thinks it will lead to a decline in enlistments, apparently because it’s too generous. The revolting details are here.

20. marisacat - 26 May 2008

Obama Memorial Day address, Las Cruces

One man’s freedom fighter… etc.

21. marisacat - 26 May 2008

Food prices have shot up in Afghanistan…

… war as a route to greater poverty and starvation…

22. marisacat - 26 May 2008


when I read the skyfarming link I got swift vision of Roosevelt island transformed.

Or our ‘South Beach’, which is now loaded with half and million dollar condos (still selling, I regret to say) razed, and with skyfarming.

works for me!

Not for the developers apparently… but who knows… 😉

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008

It’ll be interesting to see if it goes anywhere, though I can vaguely remember reading similar ideas in OMNI & Popular Mechanics magazines when I was a kid. Nothing much happened in the 25 – 30 years since (unless you count elaborate hydoponic pot farms hidden in suburban ranches).

24. marisacat - 26 May 2008

there is indoor hydroponic pot farms here… often raised for restaurants. Exquisite, almost too divine mushrooms and baby greens. Too pretty to eat, imo… but what do I know.

25. marisacat - 26 May 2008

This headline at Drudge gave me a chuckle…. Sharon Stone as Fundie Preacher:

‘KARMA’: Sharon Stone Blames China’s Treatment Of Tibet For Earthquake

26. wu ming - 26 May 2008

57 here, although they list “circle k” as the nearest grocery store. used to be one right across the street, but it went bust and the developer’s trying to make the minimall blighted long enough that the city council gives up and grants him a zoning change so he can put an office park in the slot, which would theoretically make him more money in rental income.

but you can bike or take a bus to the university/downtown without any effort. the groceries are really the pain in the ass. actually, if we could get rid of the cars, most suburbs would be fairly easy to get around in on bicycles, if people had to, except for winter weather in the cold parts of the country (and even then, i commuted by bike in beijing in the winter, so it can be done).

27. wu ming - 26 May 2008

used to be a grocery store, that is, not a circle k.

28. IB - 26 May 2008

Pssst, Marisacat . . . I think Madman means that other kind of pot farming. (I saw a very impressive series of closets in a tiny apartment in NYC, once. The really tricky bit was escaping notice for massive power usage. Not sure which part of the enterprise was more illegal.)

But yes, definitely – even the mega-supermarket chains are selling tender lettuces, etcetera, grown hydroponically. Wikipedia sez this tomato farm in Arizona is the single biggest facility (256 acres under glass), but Israel and Nicaragua are doing a lot too.

A lot of things don’t happen in a bigger way until they have to, right?

29. marisacat - 26 May 2008

we have those too. Pot pot farming I mean. The feds from time to time raid some suburban house, filled iwht pot plants.

Aside from all the other pot growing going on, throughout Ca.

But they really do grow mushrooms in little pots… fascinating.

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 May 2008

I like Marisa’s version too!

They just busted a 3-house operation in a Milwaukee suburb.

One of the neighbors learned an important lesson:

In the department’s garage on Wednesday, Oak Creek police stood guard over plants in various stages of growth, grow lights and other equipment used in the plants’ cultivation.

Police said the electric meters in each homes were bypassed with separate underground wires spliced into the main power supply line. Edwards said three of the homes used solely as makeshift greenhouses suffered extensive interior mold damage that collapsed most of the drywall. But he said the houses have not been condemned and that neighbors are not in danger because of the mold.

Katrina Smith, 33, is a stay-at-home mom with four children who has lived on S. 34th St. in Franklin a little more than a month.

She said she didn’t know what was going on a few houses down where a swarm of police with full tactical gear, dogs and rifles went in about 7:30 a.m. Tuesday.

“The one thing you do notice about the house is that the grass is really shaggy, it hasn’t been cut,” she said. “We all take care of our property really well, and that’s the only (house) that sticks out like a sore thumb.”

So there … watch out for sloppy neighbors who don’t mow regularly.

31. wu ming - 26 May 2008

if they were smart they’d plant wildflowers and xeriscape. noone’d know the difference.

32. marisacat - 26 May 2008

ugh I couldn’t really find the right piece… tho looking off and on. I popped up that photo, the unfurling solar assay on Mars… as it reminded me of native pottery designs… I had planned to find a piece of native american art work to put up.. but just never find the right one.

Maybe later tonight…

33. IB - 26 May 2008

Totally crashed my computer at a National Forest Service site looking for mushroom info. Grrr. (No doubt they’re short of dough for silly things like public information, under the current regime.)

I’ve seen fancy shitakes and other mushrooms grown in logs and bags and barrels, and before I crashed the machine I had a grotty photo showing a commercial operation (big dark rooms) with lots of giant cases full of “spawn.”

This looks to be quite the one-stop boutique for home mushroom cultivation: Fungi Perfecti. They even do books and lectures about how mushrooms can save the world.

30 – Can you imagine going to such lengths for an illicit horticultural enterprise and then attracting suspicion for poor lawn care? Oy!

Here’s a thought. Maybe all the foreclosed houses can be turned into resources for community agriculture! Let’s write our Senators to suggest it, toot sweet!

34. IB - 26 May 2008

Spawn in the mod pod!

35. marisacat - 26 May 2008

hmm I don’t even know what channel of th radio I had on… but Jerry McNerney (he replaced Pombo out in the valley, around Sacto Stockton, roughly around there) was just on pushing the new ‘GI Bill”.

Well I hope the people sent to war get a decent shake but it sure sounded like nearly empty jive.

36. marisacat - 26 May 2008

got you out IB

I will follow the links..

the fungi growing operation I saw here was a big warehouse, rows of apparatus that held a wall full of little pottery pots.. there was some filler in the pots and the mushrooms, once they grew, formed almost a bouquet rising from the little pot. ”harvesting” was slicing the “bouquet” head off the pot.

37. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

Speaking of mushrooms, I went with a roomie one year to pick up a free truckload of mushroom “manure” for the garden at a mushroom processing place. (Compost, actually – works great and doesn’t smell.)

38. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

It took me a while to get around to it, but here it is: A Special Comment of My Own to Keith Olbermann

39. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

Horrendous: Peacekeepers ‘abusing children’

Children as young as six are being sexually abused by peacekeepers and aid workers, says a leading UK charity.

Children in post-conflict areas are being abused by the very people drafted into such zones to help look after them, says Save the Children.

After research in Ivory Coast, southern Sudan and Haiti, the charity said an international watchdog should be created to deal with the issue.

The UN has said it welcomes the report, which it will study closely.

Save the Children said the most shocking aspect of child sex abuse is that most of it goes unreported and unpunished, with children too scared to speak out.

No support

A 13-year-old girl described to the BBC how 10 UN peacekeepers gang-raped her in a field near her Ivory Coast home, and left her bleeding, trembling and vomiting on the ground.

No action has been taken against the soldiers.

The report also found that aid workers have been sexually abusing boys and girls.

After research involving hundreds of children from Ivory Coast, southern Sudan and Haiti, the charity said better reporting mechanisms needed to be introduced to deal with what it called “endemic failures” in responding to reported cases of abuse.

40. IB - 26 May 2008

catnip – I still haven’t seen the KO special comment (neither video nor text) ’cause (a) I just can’t bring myself to care enough to look at it and (b) after this weekend’s blogospheric explosion over the Hillary/RK remarks, I think I’ve got the gist. That said, your piece is a hell of a lot more succinct (not to mention relevant, given the Murrow angle) than the one MSOC was inspired to write and cross-post at pff today. (And speaking of explosions, the comments are quite a dustup in themselves.)

41. marisacat - 26 May 2008

it’s the renounce reject denounce deny and I guess EJECT election season.

They are all trying to outdo each other, in the pundit (and pundit wanna be a bee with a stinger) class.

The official pundit class droned on on Sunday but were especially listless. And badly made up.

Ain’t it a shame.

[good one! catnip]

42. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

40. Thanks, IB and mcat. I actually put off watching his special comment until today and it was much more ridiculous than I had imagined – and that’s saying something.

43. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

I haven’t seen MSOC’s rant. Off to read it.

44. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

lol…quite the thread there at pff. I get the feeling the pfffters are all locked up in a ward somewhere and the diaries are like their daily group therapy exercise.

45. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

I’ll exclude mattes though (and maybe one or two others). They seem to pop in with visitor’s passes. 🙂

46. wu ming - 26 May 2008

weren’t they using mushrooms to render the mats they used to clean up the beach oil non-toxic, marisa?

fungi are amazing critters. until recently, i had no idea how important they were for getting nutrients to plant roots.

47. marisacat - 26 May 2008

wu ming…

yes if I remember correctly .. they had hair mats and a form of fungi mat as well. They were miles ahead of the professional cleaners…

I meant to go look back at the Ocean Beach clean up Zuni Surfer site, earlier and did not get to it…. A moment when real grass roots just rose and sang… So much so that it helped wipe the horror of that oil away.

48. marisacat - 26 May 2008

Lawrence Wright has a long piece up in The New Yorker, on a idealogical split inside AQ. So he says………………….

I stopped in at Angry Arab to see if he had a slam or kick or comment up about it, but not yet. he does say that Jimmie’s number (for Israeli nukes) is low. They had 150 a long time ago. Double Shock!

49. marisacat - 26 May 2008

He does not like asparagus. The king of vegetables. Heresy. [it’s a JOKE]

50. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

Sydney Pollack has died.

51. Aaron V. - 26 May 2008

catnip #43:

I don’t how it could measure up to the pseudo-pugilist fantasies of Subcommander Ficus, et al. MSOC is like BooBooMan. I forget all about them until somebody starts mentioning them again, since I never gave a rat’s ass before and still barely do. Same with Olberman. Who the fuck cares ?

A little Obbini Tumbao music would be a better value for the money than KO and his attendants/detractors, I think.

52. wu ming - 26 May 2008


i just figured out this asparagus risotto recipe about a month ago, and have been loving the cheap in-season asparagus. just planted a bed of the stuff, but i won’t get to eat it for a couple more years.

that aside, his “likes” do look rather good for CA ag. maybe he’ll get us some money in the next farm bill, instead of giving all the gummint pork to those cornballs out east.

53. ms - 26 May 2008

Sorry ’bout that “Aaron V.” comment. mr_xeno was using wordpress before retiring, and I wasn’t paying attention before I hit “say it.”

You’ll know it’s really him instead of me when he calls McKinney a “tinfoil hatter.”

[rolls eyes]

54. marisacat - 26 May 2008

No… he claims to believe in ethanol. Supports it in Illinois. Talked it up in Iowa.

55. marisacat - 26 May 2008


Aaron V at comment 51 is ms_xeno


56. CSTAR - 26 May 2008

Completely, utterly OT

Te recordamos 🙂

57. liberalcatnip - 26 May 2008

51. MSOC is like BooBooMan. I forget all about them until somebody starts mentioning them again,

They’re good for entertainment value once in a blue moon.

Same with Olberman. Who the fuck cares ?

I only started watching his show last fall when I got the digital channel and I’ve enjoyed some of his comments about Bushco but I swear to Dog has head has literally been inflating since then – along with his already ginormous ego.

58. CSTAR - 26 May 2008


Hmmm Maybe 56 wasn’t so off topic. Ethanol, schmethanol.

59. marisacat - 26 May 2008

you know .. I guess 5 years ago or so, 4? I forget.. when he was able to get that slot away from Nachman, who come on as a producer I guess, at MSNBC, with a long career behind him, a conservative… instantly began inserting himself on camera… he might have taken the spot that Donohue had previously I forget now… but when Olberman got the spot I dropped him a little note.. that it was nice to think there might at least be an alternate slice of information… and it took a couple of weeks but he wrote back. Rather a sweet note, not a canned thing. Said he hoped to be able to keep the spot and so on.

LONG time ago. he swelled up. LOL Pull him out of the water!!

60. marisacat - 27 May 2008

Ted Sorenson on with Rose is just painful. We are so inflicted by old men with their tired old wishes lies and dreams — and their losses.

Pity. But hey by now who gives a shit.

61. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

60. I watched a bit of that but decided to watch the Andromeda Strain on A&E instead. More realistic. 😉

62. marisacat - 27 May 2008

hmm here is a somewhat more critical look at primary turn out this year. via McClatchy 2008 blog.


While new turnout records were set in several states’ primaries this year, no national record for participation will be set this year.

A report released Friday by American University’s Center for the Study of the American Electorate found that while 23 of the 34 states logged new records, the overall turnout was 30.2 percent of the electorate–not quite the 30.9 percent recorded in 1972.

Even among Democrats, whose primary contest continues June 1 in Puerto Rico and ends two days later in Montana and South Dakota, overall turnout of 19.3 percent was shy of the 21 percent in 1972, when the party nominated South Dakota Sen. George McGovern.

According to the text of the report, other findings were: ::snip::

63. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

It took me a while to get around to it, but here it is: A Special Comment of My Own to Keith Olbermann

Let me make a suggestion. Olbermann’s breakdown isn’t about Hillary or Obama. It’s about 9/11.


Naomi Klein in “The Shock Doctrine” argues that it takes about 7 years for a traumatic event to wear off. Once that happens, the power that traumatic event gave the government is gone.

OK. What I noticed about Hillary’s remark (and you can probably say this argues in Hillary’s favor) is how little she seems to have thought through what the consequences of Obama’s being assassinated would be.

If Obama got shot, you wouldn’t just slide Hillary into the Democratic nomination and keep things rolling along to the convention as if Obama had just got caught with a hooker or something.

Even if you detest Obama, you have to admit that Obama’s assassination would be a traumatic event for the culture on the level of 9/11.

I think part of Obama’s appeal lies in the fact that he represents some form of return to pre 9/11 politics as usual.

What Hillary did wasn’t about Hillary. She (and Mike Huckabee) were subconsiously expressing the desire in parts of the elites to have that kind of dicatorial power Bush has had for the past 6 years, expressing the disappointment that the next president (be it McCain, Obama or Hillary) is not going to have the kind of power that comes from “Shock”.

Olbermann is probably onto that more than most people and his meltdown was horror at the idea we’d be going back to 2002 and 2003.

64. ms_xeno - 27 May 2008

catnip, #57:

They’re good for entertainment value once in a blue moon.

Personally, I prefer online mah-jongg.

65. lucid - 27 May 2008

Hi Jam.fuse! Long time no see. Hope all’s well in Deutschland.

66. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

63. Olbermann is probably onto that more than most people and his meltdown was horror at the idea we’d be going back to 2002 and 2003.

You’re kidding, right?

OK. What I noticed about Hillary’s remark (and you can probably say this argues in Hillary’s favor) is how little she seems to have thought through what the consequences of Obama’s being assassinated would be.

Gee. Did you ever think that maybe her comment wasn’t even about Obama being assassinated? Just because KO & MSOC believe that doesn’t make it so.

67. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

64. Personally, I prefer online mah-jongg.

Definitely more entertaining.

68. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

Gee. Did you ever think that maybe her comment wasn’t even about Obama being assassinated?

Well she uses the word “assassinated” and references RFK. If she had meant “got caught with hookers” wouldn’t she have invoked Spitzer instead?

You’re kidding, right?

Olbermann actually had a meltdown when McCain failed to confront a supporter for calling Hillary a “bitch” (how do we beat the bitch?)

So he’s not necessarily anti-Hillary.

What I think upset him was a person high up inside the US government casually mentioning how she would benefit off of what would surely be a violent, traumatic event.

It’s been he pattern since 9/11.

69. marisacat - 27 May 2008

LOL the Obama camp liked the KO take. They sent it around to media.


70. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

LOL the Obama camp liked the KO take. They sent it around to media.

Well, let’s put it this way. I don’t want Obama using Hillary’s careless words for votes any more than I want to see Hillary not being aware of exactly what that kind of assassination would mean.

It’s a continuation of the pattern that started where every new Bin Laden tape became a Bush campaign ad, a part of the general institutional coarsening of American politics.

71. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

68. If Spitzer had been running for president and got caught with hookers in June, maybe she would have mentioned it.

What I think upset him was a person high up inside the US government casually mentioning how she would benefit off of what would surely be a violent, traumatic event.

Which would be fine if that’s actually what she meant.

Not anti-Hillary? Watched his show much lately? Fact checked what he’s said about her?

It’s bad enough that people believe Obama can do no wrong but when they also start believing that about talking heads, that just compounds the problem. You give KO far more credit than he deserves.

72. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

70. Any more than I want to see Hillary not being aware of exactly what that kind of assassination would mean.

There are new sharks waiting to be jumped over at pff. Enjoy yourself.

73. marisacat - 27 May 2008

I don’t want

hmmm doubt they care what anyone wants. Donation, votes, pungle up and get out of the way.

74. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

Not anti-Hillary? Watched his show much lately? Fact checked what he’s said about her?

Yes. And before the primaries started he did one fawning interview with Bill and another with Hillary. I thought he was as mucn in their camp as Krugman is.

Which would be fine if that’s actually what she meant.

At some point “is” has to mean “is”.

You give KO far more credit than he deserves.

I think his emotional meltdown distracted from his point. I wish he had kept his cool. But I do think he was making an attempt to smack us upside the head and make us see the gravity of the statement (eg my 5th grade teacher having a meltdown and screaming at us when we all giggled after hearing Reagan was shot).

But take a look at Alexander Cockburn’s column on Saturday. He’s not Obama supporter and he says the same thing as Olbermann (and with a lot less pyrotechnics).

75. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

hmmm doubt they care what anyone wants

And there we would agree. Using “shock politics” is too tempting for anybody in the elites to give up thinking about.

Oddly enough, it was Huckabee not Hillary who started this ball rolling. Something’s buzzing around I’m not sufficiently tapped into.

76. marisacat - 27 May 2008

Well IMO it ws Obama. Over a year ago — and with his obsessive requests that people pray for him to keep him safe. But then I am cynical.

May they congeal.

Vote for Obama, feel better, get it off your chest.

77. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

Well IMO it ws Obama. Over a year ago — and with his obsessive requests that people pray for him to keep him safe. But then I am cynical.

And that would very much put him in the same line as Cheney’s “vote for Kerry and we’ll get attacked” and Hillary’s 3AM phone call ad.

It’s post 9/11 politics. Trying to create a sense of fear for your own political benefit.

Vote for Obama, feel better, get it off your chest.

Actually as a white male I’d probably be likely to vote for McCain so if enough people *like me* didn’t vote, oddly enough it would help Obama.

Obama would benefit from lots of white guys in NJ and PA being so turned off to politics they stay home.

78. bayprairie - 27 May 2008

Let me make a suggestion.

and here you are again. i guess when you said you were “done” you didnt mean permanently.

i was hoping you did.

let me make a suggestion. go channel your good buddy gillard somewhere else.

79. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

and here you are again. i guess when you said you were “done” you didnt mean permanently.

Nah. I watch too much Law and Order. It was more along the lines of a defense attorney to Jack McCoy saying “put my client under arrest or we’re outa here.”

let me make a suggestion. go channel your good buddy gillard somewhere else.

Heh. I didn’t even like him very much (still think he got shafted not getting invited to Bill’s lunch in Harlem though).

80. marisacat - 27 May 2008

Oh just compare him to Ceasar and be done with it… LOL. Add it ot the cry Assasino! line up he and his handlers have worked so hard on…. Bathed in the blood and so on.

I’ve said what i thought and think of the Obama passive aggressive games.

81. ms_xeno - 27 May 2008

bayprairie, #78:


82. Hair Club for Men - 27 May 2008

I’ve said what i thought and think of the Obama passive aggressive games

I have a lot of criticisms of Obama which makes it all that much more interesting that part of me inside is saying “someone out there in the media, in politics wants to suppress my vote by turning me off to the election altogether.”

If you had to chose one of the three who would most benefit from an influx of new voters, I wonder which one it would be?

I guess we’ll find out after the convention. If McCain goes negative, he wants people to stay home.

If he stays relatively civil, that would mean he wants swing voters/independents to come out.

83. bayprairie - 27 May 2008

bayprairie, #78:


i’m pretty confident that just about everyone who comments here regularly would second what i said. i have noticed one peculiar thing though. HC haunts the blog for hours, yammering incessantly about 15 things at once, but only as long as its only women that are about. i noticed that the other night when madman gave him a little bit of shit, oh then he was DONE and ran off to pout.

infer what you wish from that. i have.

84. ms_xeno - 27 May 2008

Well, this female isn’t ripe for electoral “salvation.” Smarter men than HC have tried.

85. JJB - 27 May 2008

Re Hillary and her comment re RFK’s murder, even if you take the charitable view, I don’t see how you can say it wasn’t an appalling example to use as backup for her continuing to fight for the nomination (I might also point out that the analogy doesn’t work anyway since the primary season didn’t even start until March back then, there were very few primaries, and most of the delegates were chosen in back room deals with state chairs, governors, mayors, etc.). Also, her husband had the nomination wrapped up considerably earlier in 1992 than she says she remembers.

As Margerie Cohn noted yesterday at Counterpunch:

It’s astounding that a presidential candidate could verbalize such a thing when the collective American psyche still aches from the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr., and Robert F. Kennedy. Many of us remember where we were when these heroes were shot. The pain we felt is palpable. We still suffer from their absence.

And while KO may have a outsized ego and mouth to match, I cannot disagree with this: “The politics of this nation is steeped enough in blood, Senator Clinton, you cannot and must not invoke that imagery! Anywhere! At any time!”

For all that, it was nothing compared to what Liz Trotta said on FOX: “…somebody suggested that we knock off Osama, er, Obama — well, both, would be good ha ha ha…”

I don’t know what’s worse, Trotta’s actual words, or the sickening chuckle she issues as she delights in her wit. Shades of Westbrook Pegler writing in 1968 that he hoped “some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter [Kennedy’s] spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow flies.” Well, the old scumbag got the outcome he wished for, even if the assassin was a little too dusky hued for his tastes. He died himself about 10 months after writing those words from cancer. I do hope every last moment was filled with unspeakable torment.

86. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

82. part of me inside is saying “someone out there in the media, in politics wants to suppress my vote by turning me off to the election altogether.”

Me! Me! I admit it’s me!


87. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

85. You don’t deal with things by not acknowledging them and stifling them from the public discourse. Tragedies happen.

88. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

That willingness to somehow shield people from reality is exactly the tool Bushco used to hide the coffins of returning dead soldiers and it’s the same fearmongering that has assured that very few people seem to even care about that issue or the fact that American media sanitizes and now basically ignores the wars. It’s not healthy to stick a bandaid on a damaged public psyche – which is how the Afghanistan and Iraq wars were allowed to happen in the first place.

89. JJB - 27 May 2008

87 and 88.

Those are about the lamest rationalizations I’ve ever read. The parts that are coherent, that is.

90. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

And you have a nice day too.

91. marisacat - 27 May 2008

I think I will leave Obama to sort out Dachau, Auschwitz, death camps from concentration camps and his grandfather from his non-existant white uncle from his great uncle. And who and which army liberated what. It sure is something to try try try get straight. Or should be. Or leave it out.

If anyone cares, I think Hot Air has the best track on the mess.

That should keep him busy. But I think he will just move on to the next gaffe.

Sorry to the legions, I am and was never impressed with this game from the Dems. Esp the preternaturally wise infant game they have played, while invoking Lincoln, Mandela, Martin (just a soupcon of Malcolm, gotta stay away from THAT one!) JFK, RFK… and on and on and on. It is way beyond Jesse holding up the bloodied shirt. At least he was really there.

It has always stunk to high heaven. Call me when He Saves the Whirled. Ends Wars and institutes the never to be, nto as insurance reliant even! “Universal health care”.

I so hope he wins, as people should live with their Jesus. They really should. And not look away. Which is what will happen. People will look away from the hard reality. On to the next election.

92. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008

Posting unfavourable Obama poll numbers over at dkos now makes you a “concern troll”.

93. jam.fuse - 27 May 2008

I am ganz gut (pretty good), marisacat, at the moment.

I hope you are well.

I arrived here in Germany less than a week ago. A series of depressing events kept me in the States until now, after my ‘Refusal to Take a Chemical Test’ charge (I am a hardened criminal) was finally thrown out of court in January, thanks to the heroic efforts of a steeltrap-minded lawyer I found via a barmate. In fact if anyone needs legal representation (that can afford it, sad to say) in the NYC area, shoot me an e-mail to my screen name at gee mail dot com and I can pass on his ‘411’. Very politically concious guy also.

Things are great here, relative to what I came to experience as the hellhole of the USA. For example I can sit here in the internet cafe for one euro an hour, a far cry from rates like in NYC; I think kinkö’s charges 18 US bucks an hour or some shit. The cost of housing is also comparatively dirt cheap. ‘Best’ of all it is possible to spend virtually every waking hour with a bottle of beer in one’s hand, whether riding the subway, crawling the web, or just strolling down the street. Clubs stay open to about 5.30 am from what I’ve seen. One can have a ‘donner kebap’, a sandwich stuffed with enough beef and vegetables to choke a horse, a quite yummy bowl of soup with bread that actually tastes good, and a liter of water, at the Turkish eateries all for five or six euros, which is more than enough food for one day basically. I am told one can enjoy ‘mother nature’ in front of a cop with no repercussions, although I have no plans to put that to the test. Prostitution is legal.

Regardless, over the two years or so I’ve been coming here, there seem to be the same conservative trends afflicting the US; more polizei cars everywhere with earsplitting sirens, a smoking ban in bars is supposed to be instituted in a couple of months, formerly bohemian ‘hoods becoming gentrified, more swinish materialism overall, inane advertisements and billboards everywhere and so on. I have an awful feeling ‘they’ have plans to unleash the same reign of terror currently ruining the US, or will if they can get away with it, since Berlin, like NYC, represents intellectualism, artistic freedom, radicalism, ‘race-mixing’, etc.

Well I am not online at home nor have I any immediate plans to be, but I’ll be checking in at ye olde cyber cafe regularly I reckon.

Hi lucid, how’s your band doing?

94. ms_xeno - 27 May 2008

I hate to say it, but I do see where catnip’s coming from.

Clinton II, and by extension all of them, think nothing of destroying entire countries in pursuit of yet more wealth and power than they already possess.

Why would people who are literally responsible for the deaths of millions think anything of “joking” about the death of one rival ?

95. liberalcatnip - 27 May 2008
96. marisacat - 27 May 2008

hey jam.fuse

thanks for checking back. Glad to hear things are good… and that you survived the NY cop event. I agree I think our fear and hatred (look over there! at Terror!) and repression tentacles will reach as far as we push them. There is the real shame.


new thread… a pic and nothing much more………………


97. marisacat - 27 May 2008


and my point is Obama USED it.

May they congeal.

98. marisacat - 27 May 2008

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