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Passerelle a Paris 23 June 2008

Posted by marisacat in France, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Paris, Viva La Revolucion!.

Because it came up in a round about way in the last thread (and I am out of ideas, LOL) the newest bridge, a passerelle or foot bridge in Paris, Pont Simone de Beavoir:

passerelle Simone de Beauvoir, a Paris

It is lit at night from beneath the hand rails, so no lamp post interrupts the curves.

day shot

I think the palm tree is an itinerant summer visitor when, for the past several years, Paris Plage (think I am remembering the name right) pops up along the banks.. beach sand, recliners and tropical bars with fusion music, drenched island atmosphere — and a big little break from city life…

Anyhoo as I said, I am out of ideas… 😉


Simone de Beavoir

From wikipedia:

Death and afterwards

Beauvoir's grave at the Cimetière du Montparnasse

Beauvoir’s grave at the Cimetière du Montparnasse

Beauvoir died of pneumonia. She is buried next to Sartre at the Cimetière du Montparnasse in Paris. Since her death, her reputation has grown, not only because she is seen as the mother of post-1968 feminism, especially in academia, but also because of a growing awareness of her as a major French thinker, existentialist philosopher and otherwise.

There is much contemporary discussion about the influences of Beauvoir and Sartre on one another. She is seen as having influenced Sartre’s masterpiece, Being and Nothingness, while also having written much on philosophy that is independent of Sartrean existentialism. Some scholars have explored the influences of her earlier philosophical essays and treatises upon Sartre’s later thought. She is studied by many respected academics both within and outside of philosophy circles, including Margaret A. Simons and Sally Scholtz. Beauvoir’s life has also inspired numerous biographies.

In 2006, the architect Dietmar Feichtinger designed a sophisticated footbridge across the Seine, named the Passerelle Simone-de-Beauvoir after Beauvoir. The bridge features feminine curves and leads to the new Bibliothèque nationale de France.




1. marisacat - 23 June 2008

hmm from a Yahoo news article that H-RH linked in the last thread

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – As Barack Obama broadens his outreach to evangelical voters, one of the movement’s biggest names, James Dobson, accuses the likely Democratic presidential nominee of distorting the Bible and pushing a “fruitcake interpretation” of the Constitution.

The criticism, to be aired Tuesday on Dobson’s Focus on the Family radio program, comes shortly after an Obama aide suggested a meeting at the organization’s headquarters here, said Tom Minnery, senior vice president for government and public policy at Focus on the Family.

The conservative Christian group provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of the pre-taped radio segment, which runs 18 minutes and highlights excerpts of a speech Obama gave in June 2006 to the liberal Christian group Call to Renewal. Obama mentions Dobson in the speech.

“Even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools?” Obama said. “Would we go with James Dobson’s or Al Sharpton’s?” referring to the civil rights leader.

may the xtians fall upon each other, starving and willing to gnaw one upon the other. LUV the choices for religionism, Dobson or Sharpton. Poor Jesus, left by the wayside and by his most ardent [supposedly] supporters.

Hey, fuck them all.

2. marisacat - 23 June 2008


Last week, DuBois [Director of Religious Affairs for O Campaign], a former Assemblies of God associate minister, called Minnery for what Minnery described as a cordial discussion. He would not go into detail, but said Dubois offered to visit the ministry in August when the Democratic National Convention is in Denver.

A possible Obama visit was not discussed, but Focus is open to one, Minnery said.

3. CSTAR - 23 June 2008

I’m expecting Kansas to become a Papal state.

4. wilfred - 23 June 2008

btw, Barbara Ehrenreich is the guest tonight on Colbert.

5. marisacat - 23 June 2008

BTW, full text of his June 2006 speech to the Call to Renewal bunch. People may have already read it, or parts of it…. Its the speech where he talks about a letter from a “pro lifer” about his site’s wording on abortion. he changes the words to suit the letter writer. And speaks of feeling shame. (His site also calls this speech “the greatest speech on religion in 40 years”)

I toss him and his over the side of the mountain. LOL which I do almsot any day when I am reading about his hamfisted ‘Jesus I am’ message.

But the reason the doctor was considering not voting for me was not simply my position on abortion. Rather, he had read an entry that my campaign had posted on my website, which suggested that I would fight “right-wing ideologues who want to take away a woman’s right to choose.”

So I looked at my website and found the offending words. In fairness to them, my staff had written them using standard Democratic boilerplate language to summarize my pro-choice position during the Democratic primary, at a time when some of my opponents were questioning my commitment to protect Roe v. Wade.

Re-reading the doctor’s letter, though, I felt a pang of shame. It is people like him who are looking for a deeper, fuller conversation about religion in this country. They may not change their positions, but they are willing to listen and learn from those who are willing to speak in fair-minded words. Those who know of the central and awesome place that God holds in the lives of so many, and who refuse to treat faith as simply another political issue with which to score points.

So I wrote back to the doctor, and I thanked him for his advice. The next day, I circulated the email to my staff and changed the language on my website to state in clear but simple terms my pro-choice position. And that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own – a prayer that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to me.

6. wilfred - 23 June 2008

And check out Nightline, they do a profile of the new Russian “Jesus” and his followers. Yikes, scam city. Too bad the report doesn’t go into any real detail and show what an utter sham this is. I bet he’ll get a whole contingent from the USA after this piece airs.

The thing that had me really going was they said that over 2/3 of his ‘followers’ have lyme disease from living in the woods of Siberia with him and none are seeking treatment even though some are dying.

7. bayprairie - 23 June 2008

i find that very odd. our presidential candidate is speaking hypothetically about expelling non-christians and teaching christianity in the public schools. why would anyone even contemplate such a thing?

“Folks haven’t been reading their Bibles,” Obama said.

nope. don’t plan on reading fairy tales. nor do i vote for bible thumpers.

8. marisacat - 23 June 2008


his religious shit is absolutely transparent. Elmer Gantry in a new dress. And pumps.

And I for one am afraid of this new horseman and his greasy god blessed DEALS.

9. marisacat - 23 June 2008

Finally getting to the NYT piece on muslim hesitation or disaffection (or whatever it is)

As Senator Barack Obama courted voters in Iowa last December, Representative Keith Ellison, the country’s first Muslim congressman, stepped forward eagerly to help.

Mr. Ellison believed that Mr. Obama’s message of unity resonated deeply with American Muslims. He volunteered to speak on Mr. Obama’s behalf at a mosque in Cedar Rapids, one of the nation’s oldest Muslim enclaves. But before the rally could take place, aides to Mr. Obama asked Mr. Ellison to cancel the trip because it might stir controversy. Another aide appeared at Mr. Ellison’s Washington office to explain.

“I will never forget the quote,” Mr. Ellison said, leaning forward in his chair as he recalled the aide’s words. “He said, ‘We have a very tightly wrapped message.’ ” [oh I am so not surprised… —Mcat]

When Mr. Obama began his presidential campaign, Muslim Americans from California to Virginia responded with enthusiasm, seeing him as a long-awaited champion of civil liberties, religious tolerance and diplomacy in foreign affairs. But more than a year later, many say, he has not returned their embrace.

While the senator has visited churches and synagogues, he has yet to appear at a single mosque. Muslim and Arab-American organizations have tried repeatedly to arrange meetings with Mr. Obama, but officials with those groups say their invitations — unlike those of their Jewish and Christian counterparts — have been ignored. ::snip::

What a shock, endless RELIGIOUS (cultural ethnic) problems. You can go to Unity NH… etc.

10. lucid - 23 June 2008

Simone… but despite Wiki on the ‘third wave’, the fundamental perception within ‘The Second Sex’ is not essentialism, but the social construct of the ‘other’. de Beavoir was an instrumental influence on those challenging gender as inherent & she well predated Bell Hooks. And while I think it is somewhat of a misreading of ‘The Feminine Mystique’, or the ‘works’ of ‘the second wave’, to suggest they weren’t doing that [even though in many respects they did], I also think overlooking feminism of the ’20’s and ’30’s for the trends that emerged 60 years later is also wrong. And de Bauvoir has always delivered.

To some extent I think the supposed discrepency between ‘French Feminism’ and ‘Anglo Feminism’ derives from these lines. The French always challenged essentialism. Many, if not most Anglo feminists, for decades reiterated a traditionally feminine, matronly image upon the movement. Their utter rejection of Alice Paul and Lucy Burns is a perfect example. Along with the continued and successful lobbying for prohibition.

But I think it gets more complicated. The typical media image of a feminist from the ’70’s is a ‘bra burning’, ‘lesbian’, ‘anit-sex’, ‘anti-male’ militant. Not is this obviously untrue, but it is also to be lauded. Challenging both men and women to think about their sexual roles in society and how it relates to the reality of social justice denied [to women] is a powerful statement that needs to be made again and again, until it hits home… and that could take a millenium. Hell, Lysistrata was written in the 6th century bce, but obviously the point wasn’t made.

But again, being for empowerment, on every level, and freedom, on every level, coming back to the questioning of gender roles, the questioning of gender itself is what, for me, bridges everything. The point is not to ‘protect women’ [which is patronizing], nor to head their ‘moral sense’ [which is also patronizing]. The point is to recognize every ‘other’ as human beings first, to suspend belief – and to recognize them as ourselves, through whatever mental gymnastics we can muster. Recognize them as feeling, thinking, sentient beings – none other than ourselves. Recognize a paradigm in which equality isn’t possible and end it. It’s not just about feminism. It is about every beating heart on the planet. Our petty roles have serviced the puppeteers for the last time. We are the same. We are equal. We are free to do what we want. No laws should bind us. No bigotry should level a boulder on our heads. And if it does, we should fight back with every fiber of our being.

And if we do that, we’ll win.

11. lucid - 23 June 2008

I’m less equal than you are.
I’m sorry.
I should have killed my Dad in Afghanistan
When some mobsters ordered him to drive a truck
lest they kill his family.

I’m less equal than you are.
I’m sorry.
My brethren in East Timor were tired,
And we rose up to our deaths.

I’m less equal than you are.
I’m sorry.
When our land was stolen,
that had been held generation
upon generation,
I threw rocks,
only to be crumpled by mortars.

I’m sorry that I’m less equal than you are,
but our ghosts remain,
And play the algorithms
in your war on ghosts,

Awaiting the slackjawed moment of realization
When you see the ghost in the machine.

12. marisacat - 23 June 2008

lucid… also has his verses up at PffterPoofters.

…………………………… 8) ..

13. lucid - 23 June 2008

And was just reading pffterpoofters and vomiting… I almost sound like Judy Dench in the movie I referenced earlier, but can any of them have a remotely stern conversation?

Hormones and egos…

14. marisacat - 24 June 2008

LOL speaking of which, the Blahgs are full of cork screws. And screws.

I am so unimpressed with pinche tejano’s “coming away from jesus”….

[I] thought Obama was beyond their control, a firebrand riding the backs of the populace to power. But with his two revelations last week, concerning corporate accountability and the fund raising schemes of the camapaign, he showed that his faux progressivism was just a means to get the nomination, he never believed it. ::snap that towel::

15. marisacat - 24 June 2008

LOL… mention that Obama’s Director of Relgious High Falutin’ Whack Whackery was an Assemblies of God Associate Minister sent me googling…

Yeah so impressed with the stench of KNOW NOTHINGNESS


Joshua Dubois, Sen. Obama’s director of religious affairs, is guarded in discussing his personal positions. The stepson of an African Methodist Episcopal minister, he did not offer his view of abortion during a WORLD interview, but he spoke readily of his college conversion to Christianity. He said a childhood spent going through the evangelical motions turned into a robust and genuine faith: “I am saved by the grace of God. I’m a strong believer in Jesus Christ.”

Such explicit born-again language is more likely to resonate with Bible-believing evangelicals. DuBois, who maintains membership at a United Pentecostal Council Assemblies of God church in Cambridge, Mass., intends to use such credibility to vouch for the authenticity of Obama’s faith. “He’s also a Christian, a very strong one at that,” DuBois said of his employer.

16. marisacat - 24 June 2008

I just noticed this at TPM Muckracker

Judge: Why Litigate When You Can Arrest?

By Kate Klonick – June 23, 2008, 6:35PM

In a motion hearing in federal court today, U.S. District Judge John Bates questioned why Congress didn’t simply arrest former White House counsel Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Josh Bolten after both refused to respond to subpoenas issued by the House Judiciary Committee: […]

Again, if you loved the 110th, you’ll love the 111th even MORE.

No balls no brains no nothing. But they will have JESUS, pentacostal, whacked, fundie, observant, conservative, and whatever else.

What luck.

17. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Good lord. Someone tipped me off this whiner wanker off kilter thread (yo rubes!, following donkeytale and his astroturf all the way, LOL) is still going! – and HCfM (among others) is whining he was mal treated here and banned. Sorry, he is not banned. Try to recover from the disappointment.

The last two threads he appeared in here (a month ago):

Outward Bound

For some reason this photo made me laugh

Someone give the boychick a hankie. And a ladder to the moon. Or something.

Why are there so many weak whiners at Pff?

18. marisacat - 24 June 2008

This was my last to Miss Devore, after 11 months of her baiting me.

She agreed to go off following the above comment, then did not. I finished it.

Someone wring the poor sodden dear out. I’ll be happy to post the email exchange i had wiht her in June of 2007 when I shut the blog for 3 weeks to [hopefully] to steer clear of her and her mentally deranged (he confessed to it my threads) co hort.

19. marisacat - 24 June 2008

And BTW HCFM, who is too intelligent for the persona he is currently playing, not only sniffs at donkeytale’s ass but he became him

76. Hair Club for Men – 20 April 2008

.. remarks on the “exotic left” did not imply that you supported Clinton

Having been around the same tedious bend with “Donkeytale” on PFF it’s clear that the only argument he has *for me to vote for Obama* is to insult the left, to level personal attacks on me as being ineffective (a charge I of course agree with but which isn’t an argument for voting for Obama) or as an outmoded dogmatic leftist (which has a grain of truth but still isn’t a reason to vote for Obama).

It’s just not going to happen after watching the debacle of the post 2006 congress. Am I racist because I won’t vote for Obama or anti-semitic because I won’t support Israel or misogynist because I won’t vote for Hillary. It’s possible I’m a little of all of them.

But it’s still not a good reason to vote for Obama.

I just don’t see one, even though I don’t quite dislike him personally.

20. ms_xeno - 24 June 2008

[snerk] I caught MissD yesterday, whining about her expulsion while reiterating, of course, how she’s exempt from the “elitism” she accuses others of because she’s voting for Obama. Then there’s kraant’s Beavis & Butthead routine about Nader.

Tch. I feel another hiatus coming on. See you all later.

21. NYCO - 24 June 2008

How come no one ever talks about First Wave feminism any more? “Solitude of Self,” anyone?

22. marisacat - 24 June 2008

S&P Index: ”The closely watched index shows U.S. housing prices fell by 15.3% in April — the fastest rate ever, with prices tumbling to levels not seen in nearly four years.”

23. penlan - 24 June 2008

It’s just amazing that these thumb-sucking infantiles at PFF that used to post here, some who have since been banned, can’t let go. It’s become an obssession for them to constantly target Marisa – & others who frequent this site.

Why do they feel so threatened? Is it because they can’t face truth & reality & prefer game-playing? Very low-skilled game-playing at that.

I thought that enlightenment was key to growth & learning. Apparently not in some circles.

I love this blog as I have learned, & am still learning, such a lot here & appreciate all the hard work that goes into fact finding & even fun finding. 😉

As for the others it seems they have never really attempted to leave the womb or at the next stage cut the umbilical cord.

24. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Tapper on ObamaRama vs muslim voters…However, he has an interesting tidbit at the bottom about muslim voters turning out in VA for Webb.

25. kraant - 24 June 2008


This blog is a womb.

26. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

But again, being for empowerment, on every level, and freedom, on every level, coming back to the questioning of gender roles, the questioning of gender itself is what, for me, bridges everything. The point is not to ‘protect women’ [which is patronizing], nor to head their ‘moral sense’ [which is also patronizing]. The point is to recognize every ‘other’ as human beings first, to suspend belief – and to recognize them as ourselves, through whatever mental gymnastics we can muster. Recognize them as feeling, thinking, sentient beings – none other than ourselves. Recognize a paradigm in which equality isn’t possible and end it. It’s not just about feminism. It is about every beating heart on the planet. Our petty roles have serviced the puppeteers for the last time. We are the same. We are equal. We are free to do what we want. No laws should bind us. No bigotry should level a boulder on our heads. And if it does, we should fight back with every fiber of our being.

VERY well said.

27. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008
28. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

25, kraant: anyone who thinks we all agree with each other here, and/or we’re timorously minding our Ps and Qs for fear that the dreaded Miss Mcat will punish us, is an idiot.

Let’s face it, kraant: PFF is a roiling mass of lunatics and antisocial losers, many of whom are sick misogynists who get off on bashing assertive women.

Nuf sed.

29. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

10 – lucid – I like what you wrote, except for:

It’s not just about feminism.

This is perilously close to the dismissive attitude, “We’re not interested in feminism, we want to get equality for everyone.” (a.k.a., “I’m not a feminist, I’m a humanist“.) As if equality for women is not an essential step toward equality for everyone.

it’s an attitude that exemplifies the view of “The Other” that de Beauvoir wrote about. Women can’t be as important as men, because they’re not men. Women’s issues can’t be as important as “everyone’s” issues, because women aren’t everyone, they’re The Other.

30. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

21, NYCO: Mary Wollstonecraft kicks ass.

31. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Well… I say this

“I’m not a feminist, I’m a humanist“

but it does not diminish my concern for rights, equality, opportunity and freedom for women. Across the board.

I ahve never ascribed many words to myself that contain or require a defined group, just a quirk, I guess.

32. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

“I’m not a feminist, I’m a humanist“

I think people who say this have a weird idea of what it means to be a “feminist”. But then again, many feminists do, too.

My primary focus is feminism because I’m a woman and I feel it’s my duty to fight for the rights of my group. Just as a Roma would be remiss if he didn’t focus on the rights of Roma.

If women don’t do it, who will?

33. marisacat - 24 June 2008

well of course I understand that, it’s basic.

HOWEVER a shit load of owmen and womens’ groups who bleat “Feminist” cave over and over to all sorts of things. usually for political expediency or LOL “unity” or whatever.

To get funding from Emily’s List all you have to do is be a woman and able to spell “abortion”.

Does not cut it. IMO.

Subsidies for Planned Parenthood distribution of free or close to free brith control at the college clinic level just got whacked from the Big Iraq Spending bill…

CWA and CBN and other faith based groups are congratulating themselves, as are rightie blog and publications.

crickets from the so called Feminist groups.

They have not come thru, for decades. So the word, in common parlance, is tarnished.

34. marisacat - 24 June 2008

And god knows NO ONE is forcing Obama to be honest about what he plans for wimmens, as he meets with religious groups, Friday “prayer conf call” to his religious loves, officiated by the Assemblies of God guy who is his Religious Outreach Director.

None of this is good news. It is not.

35. bayprairie - 24 June 2008

Subsidies for Planned Parenthood distribution of free or close to free brith control at the college clinic level just got whacked from the Big Iraq Spending bill…

yep. and i bet you didn’t learn about that at dkos either, did you? or any of the other “progressive” blogs.

nor at pff.

anyone see this being talked about at any of democratic party enabling sites?

36. lucid - 24 June 2008

10 – lucid – I like what you wrote, except for:

It’s not just about feminism.

I meant that in terms that developed within schools like ‘post-colonial’ theory, ecofeminism, etc. That feminism itself has never been just about ‘feminism’ per se [at least in the way that it is apprehended by those who don’t really understand it]. It has always appealed universal equality first and then within that appeal looked for specific strategies to address specific issues in law & culture – none of which are a priori ‘women’s issues’, though all of which affect women.

37. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

33. They have not come thru, for decades. So the word, in common parlance, is tarnished.

Well, of course. Like “freedom” and “democracy”. But no matter who misuses these words for the wrong ends, the basic principles remain valid.

I am no big fan of “feminist” groups, blogs, or academic subcategories (e.g., “third wave”, “sex-positive”, “womanist” etc.) if only because they tend to enforce illusory divisions. Those who indulge in this are so caught up in their territorialism that they neglect to support the basic principles of feminism. For example, as you cite – they remain silent when bad shit is happening.

38. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

36 – lucid – It has always appealed universal equality first

Hence reinventing the wheel and making everything much more convoluted and murky than it needs to be. That’s one reason why I don’t have any patience with those “schools”. Sorry 🙂

39. marisacat - 24 June 2008

i say slap a god damned vagina on the grille of a pick up truck (that fewer and fewer can afford to fill up).

Hope to offend somebody. About all that is left.

This wretched country that is AFRAID to ratify, support something so basic as the ERA.

40. marisacat - 24 June 2008

And anyone who has not figured out that as war, widening war, overtakes this country, things inevitably get worse for women, for children, for gays who are not war mongers, is not paying attention..

41. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

39 – This wretched country that is AFRAID to ratify, support something so basic as the ERA.


And let me add: the abortion flap has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the plight of the poor wee unborn. It’s completely and totally about controlling women and keeping them under the thumbs of the various womanhating religious whackos.

This must be repeated over and over and over and over again until it starts to seep into people’s thick skulls. And you’re right- feminist groups have dropped the ball here.

42. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Absolutely it is about controlling women, womens’ sexuality… and their lives.

And slowly but surely producing fodder, of one sort or another.

43. marisacat - 24 June 2008

The thread is interesting too.

“The Iranians would certainly view this as an act of war, whether or not they acted on it as such,” Chorin told Truthout. “All of this would confirm the Gulf Arabs’ perceptions that the US is playing an increasingly destabilizing role in the region.”

However, despite the new Iran resolution’s hard-line language, it counts some of Congress’s most liberally voting members among its co-sponsors, including Representative Robert Wexler, an outspoken advocate of impeaching President Bush and Vice President Cheney; Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, one of Congress’s most vocal critics of the Bush administration’s missteps; and Representative Jan Schakowsky, rated the most liberal Democrat in Congress by the nonpartisan vote-tracking project GovTrack.

44. Arcturus - 24 June 2008

Amy G this am played Carlin’s bit on aborttion – pro-life is anti women – YouTube version’s no doubt out there

I’ve also
never been much for -isms – neither political, philosophical, nor aesthetic/poetic – more the mix’n-match type myself – even ‘humanism’ as its been handed down has its problems

A Symposium of the Whole (Robert Duncan)
the Zapatista’s Other campaign
might be one picture of where I am (at?) (would-like-to-be?)

whose issue is-it/should-it-be when a 17 y/o pregnant undocumented migrant worker dies for lack of shade & water while tending ‘our’ grapes?

45. lucid - 24 June 2008

That’s one reason why I don’t have any patience with those “schools”. Sorry

I can understand. I really do like the post-colonial stuff though [Gayatri Spivak being a prime mover there] because it touches on so many issues & is very useful for tracking the cultural exploitations & manipulations of capitalism.

46. kraant - 24 June 2008


HRH, the comment I was replying to (#23) pretty much described this place as a womb. My only real question is, was it conscious or unconscious.

47. marisacat - 24 June 2008


well, Robert Duncan and Zapatista is a good mix imo.

48. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

George Carlin piece by Nichols in The Nation:

The last vote that George Carlin said he cast in a presidential race was for George McGovern in 1972.

When Richard Nixon, who Carlin described as a member of a sub-species of humanity, overwhelmingly defeated McGovern, the comedian gave up on the political process.

“Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians,” he explained in a routine that challenged all the premises of today’s half-a-loaf reformers. “Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: ‘The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.'”

I know this is a demonstration of my ignorance (too much time in the Whedonverse, no doubt), but I’m not familar w/ Robert Duncan. Suggestions for broadening my knowledge of him?

49. Gayle - 24 June 2008

Great pictures, Marisacat. One of these days I’ll get to Paris, I hope.

Heather-Rose, I agree with you about the “schools” and especially academia.

Almost all meaning has been sucked out of the word feminism. I still use it, but I’m starting to wish it was dumped altogether. Maybe we should go back to plain old “women’s liberation.” That term speaks clearly enough on it’s own.

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008


(San Francisco) Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney Joins Cindy for Congress as Honorary Co-Chair as No-Strings Occupation and War Funding, Telecom Immunity Bills Are Ushered Through Democrat-controlled Congress

McKinney: “The point was to change Washington, DC, but instead Washington, DC changed Nancy Pelosi”

As a sign of tightening opposition to the string of hope-reversing policies being put forward by Speaker Pelosi, Green Party Presidential and pro-peace candidate Cynthia McKinney agreed to serve as an Honorary Co-Chair of Cindy Sheehan’s campaign to oust Nancy Pelosi from Congress. “Nancy Pelosi needs to phone home, because it’s clear that she’s forgotten the values of the people of California who sent her to Congress. The point was to change Washington, DC, but instead Washington, DC changed Nancy Pelosi,” commented McKinney, a former colleague of Pelosi.

McKinney first declared her independence from the national leadership that voted its complicity in war crimes, torture, crimes against humanity, and crimes against the peace at an anti-war demonstration in front of the Pentagon in March of 2007. At that time, McKinney lamented that the Democratic majority in Congress had failed to repeal the Patriot Acts and the Bush tax cuts, introduce and pass legislation for a livable wage and investigate the Pentagon’s admitted “loss” of $2.3 trillion. McKinney bolted the Democratic Party afterwards, declaring her candidacy for the Green Party’s nomination in December 2007. Today, McKinney adds to that list Democratic leadership’s failure to pass legislation providing for a single payer health care system in our country and its inaction on the foreclosure crisis gripping homeowners.

McKinney first publicly endorsed Cindy’s Congressional campaign last year in Kennebunkport, Maine near the home of George Herbert Walker Bush. According to McKinney, “Cindy’s campaign is increasingly important today as the only way left to put peace, impeachment, and our values back on the table.” McKinney added, “Cindy continues to show us the power of one, the power that is within every one of us. Moreover, Cindy Sheehan can win.”

“Having Cynthia on board is a significant gain for my campaign. She has experience in tough campaigns and brings a wealth of knowledge. I am running to win, we have already raised close to $200,000 and everyday we get more and more support as people get more fed up with Pelosi’s mis-leadership,” says Sheehan.

Since the Democrats assumed control of Congress, according to some reports, an additional 1,200 U.S. troops have died and nearly 10,000 more have been wounded, with tens of thousands more Iraqi civilians killed. Hundreds of billions of additional dollars have been appropriated for war and occupation under Pelosi’s watch and she took impeachment “off the table.” Both Cindy and Cynthia are members of the New Broom Coalition, founded by Dr. Carol Wolman, the California Green Party’s First Congressional District candidate, a Coalition that seeks to empower the people by putting a clean sweep to Congress.

Currently, McKinney is preparing to head to Chicago for the Green Party Convention July 10 – July 13. Sheehan is anchored in San Francisco campaigning for the first hurdle of collecting 10,198 signatures needed to get on the ballot in November as a “Decline to State / Independent” candidate.

51. Gayle - 24 June 2008

I made the mistake of clicking over to the Flesh Feast thread. Yikes!

What’s funny are the accusations, mainly by Shadow Thief, that this site doesn’t “do” anything. As in, you don’t initiate change out there in the larger world.

What does he think they accomplish over there? The place reads like a parody.

I see zero action coming out of the A list or B list blogs. Unless you count calls for political donations; they’re teaming with those. When I first stumbled into the blogesphere, four or five years ago, I recall a few organizing optimists posting calls to action, which were promptly put down and snuffed out by other posters. It was depressing.

52. marisacat - 24 June 2008


I picked seomthing quick, that is a good overview

When I was very young, I attended an art and design school in SF, Rudloph Schaffer School of Design. On Potrero Hill, before it fully died and became sought after Real Estate. Looking back it ws a brief halcyon moment as the city stood still poised to close up almost all open space and re-market forgotten neighborhoods. Rudolph had been friends with RD when both were young and would sometimes sit in the garden and speak of him and those days… .

53. marisacat - 24 June 2008


I have come to “Civil Rights”, applied to all.

54. NYCO - 24 June 2008

Well, a cynic he may have been, but Carlin was on record as being “excited by Obama,” from a strictly peanut-gallery perspective I suppose… but that means I’m now officially more cynical than George Carlin. Woof! (Although maybe my respect for spiritual impulses balances that out, I dunno.)

55. marisacat - 24 June 2008


well that rates an official “ugh”. It would be a pity if he were, even briefly in the last year of his life, just one more older white male, pre-orgasmic for ObamaRama.

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

oooo, thanks for that link.

I missed out on a lot of poetry in school.

57. marisacat - 24 June 2008

I just noticed this poem of RD’s at the bottom of the page… I had not seen it as scanned thru the biographical text above…

It so fits, somehow:

Often I am Permitted to Return to a Meadow

as if it were a scene made-up by the mind,
that is not mine, but is a made place,

that is mine, it is so near to the heart,
an eternal pasture folded in all thought
so that there is a hall therein

that is a made place, created by light
wherefrom the shadows that are forms fall.

Wherefrom fall all architectures I am
I say are likenesses of the First Beloved
whose flowers are flames lit to the Lady.

She it is Queen Under the Hill
whose hosts are a disturbance of words within words
that is a field folded.

It is only a dream of the grass blowing
east against the source of the sun
in an hour before the sun’s going down

whose secret we see in a children’s game
of ring a round of roses told.

Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
as if it were a given property of the mind
that certain bounds hold against chaos,

that is a place of first permission,
everlasting omen of what is.

58. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008


‘The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.’


That’s exactly the point.

59. Arcturus - 24 June 2008

RD lived w/ his partner, the painter/collagist Jess [Collins – goes by 1st name] on Potrero Hill. Reportedly an amazing house jam-packed w/ art & books. His enthusiasm for the adventure of language, imagination & poetry was infectious. A 1944 essay pubished in Politics MAGAZINE, “The Homosexual in Society” in Politics magazine, “The Homosexual in Society” was a coming-out decades ahead of gay liberation. He championed the work of HD as a crucial Am. modernist peer of Pound & Williams long before she was really read.

You can hear him reading “Often I Am Permitted…” (along w/ much else) at Penn Sound

. . .
and the very glint of Satan’s eyes from the pit of
the hell of America’s unacknowledged,
unrepented crimes that I saw in Goldwater’s eyes
now shines from the eyes of the President
in the swollen head of the nation.

–Robert Duncan, fr. “Up Rising, Passages 25,” Bending the Bow, New Directions, 1968

[think i fixed the link, we’ll see — Mcat]

60. Arcturus - 24 June 2008

another bit from RD (the lines are going to come out all screwy) typed up some time ago:

And men wake to see that they are used like things
spent in a great potlatch, this Texas barbecue
of Asia, Africa, and all the Americas,
And the professional military behind him, thinking
to use him as they thought to use Hitler
without losing control of their business of war.

I am speaking now of the Dream in which America sleeps, the New World,
moaning, floundering, in three hundred years of invasions–our own history
out of Europe and enslaved Africa.
. . .

And will there be men to come who will remember
the names of the presidents, governors, mayors
this profound Evil has placed over us,
each appropriate to this circle of the Inferno?

The powers of business and industry taking over government
War the biggest business of all
–the interests of property the ultimate basis of this order–
they gave us the business. And the Congress divided,
but the majority again and again for self-interest and profit
and to make good the Lie
against the well-being of the people,

armies abroad and spies in every nation, false witnesses,

and at home the cops in the streets now, the “law” supplanting the Law,
having full mandate from the courts to kill without question,

back of the scene the bosses and war-mongerers, misusers of the public trust

. . .

…their faces, names .. Rubins, Hayakawa, Aliotos, Reagans, Nixons
as we go upward the stupidity thickens,

reflections in the oil-slick multiplied.

The Hydra prepares in every dream, even in the Revolution,
his offices.

His clowns come forward to entertain us.

(from “Passages 35, Before the Judgment,” Tribunals, Black Sparrow, 1970, also in Groundwork: Before the War, New Directions, 1984)

probably written ~1968 or so – & 40 years later, well, I needn’t . . .

(forgot, wanted to link to Lisa Jarnot’s Duncan page – she’s a terrific writer who’s written what should be an excellent bio, due out from Cal next fall

61. marisacat - 24 June 2008

…their faces, names .. Rubins, Hayakawa, Aliotos, Reagans, Nixons
as we go upward the stupidity thickens,

S I Hayakawa. What a collaborator, for Reagan.

62. Arcturus - 24 June 2008

I coded out most of that at Booman’s once & just found it, if you want a better idea of how it should look, layout-wise

(S.I.H. – another mal-lingerer!)

63. marisacat - 24 June 2008

One of the most … well, one says amusing as little reaction is left, so, ”amusing” it is…

One of the most amusing little games around today is this. Proof that the Dems still work to bale up the black vote, trade on tired white impulses. ignore other minorities, use Martin and Malcolm in service of yet another election and target… LOL that great dino-saur, Steny.

Color of Change, FDL and one fo the “Blue” ATM things is raising money for the ad. Oh, and write your congressman. Nice cursive now… be good. And vote vote vote.

When the candidate and his slip and slobber for wiretapping, retroactive immunity, assault on the 4th amendment – and unchecked power – is at issue – ALONG WITH every one in congress (and tangential to congress) no matter how they voted (or did not vote) on FISA/telcom immunity last week.

So buy a [supposedly] dying print paper Thursday and see democracy in action. And diversion.

64. marisacat - 24 June 2008

oh! And be sure, absolutely sure, to get all whupset! over Imus. Follow the calibrated diversion from Sharpton, as he works to serve his Dem AND his Right Wing masters.

Laugh all the way…

65. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

63. That might matter if The Party actually cared. How many letters and e-mails have been sent to them collectively about FISA and Bush’s other crimes? They think Hoyer or anybody else is going to listen to them now? Fools. Waste of money. Riding on the backs of civil rights leaders like they give a damn. If they did, they wouldn’t have been anti-impeachment shills all of these years, waiting & hoping for their precious fucking Democrats to actually do something. They got what they paid for in spades.

66. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

Frontline/World tonite: Jesus in China (New)

“A report on the spread of Christianity in China…”

67. marisacat - 24 June 2008

hankie. The Blahgs, of all stripes and most colors, sell out front orgs, “activists” of all stripes, should pass it around. LOL Share the phlegm.

They will be “losing”.

But, they can still get all whupset [weep weep] over Imus. Dog whistle. Have another hankie. Share the phlegm.

68. marisacat - 24 June 2008



It is from a winger view point, but still worth while, Spengler has a bit of an eye popper over at ATimes. On religion, papacy, US president(s), wars and geo politics. And rise of 100 million newly minted (anyone with half a brain knows converts are fucking dangerous) minted xtians in China.

69. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

KO tonite responding to criticism by Rove that Obama is elitist because he’d fit into the country club set (paraphrased) said that the country club imagery wasn’t relevant because blacks were only able to join them not long ago in history. Ergo, Obama can’t be elitist.

What kind of idiot logic is that? Furthermore, isn’t there anything more bloody important to talk about? Jeebus on a stick. No, I didn’t keep watching.

70. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

the only thing that would matter to Steny is threatening his seat w/ a primary challenge followed by a third party from the left, to the point of being willing to let the Reps win.

Not going to happen.

Thanks both of you for the poems. Good to learn of such a strong voice for freedom.

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

Boing Boing:

If anyone expects President Obama to roll back Bush’s illegally-gained dictator powers, they are smoking rope.

Sums it up rather well.

72. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Moral WHUPSET! Protect wimmens from themselves… gain religious votes! Pander to hard core “natural law” conservatives like Kmeic … beef up the Friday am Prayer Conf Call the OBama camp runs.

‘I’m Going to Talk to Obama About This’

Wallis to Push Obama for ‘Abortion Reduction’ Plank

June 24, 2008

Before the Democrats convene in Denver, the Rev. Jim Wallis plans to urge Barack Obama to go along with adding an “abortion reduction” plank to the party platform.

Sen. Obama, shown speaking at the Iowa United Church of Christ Statewide Conference earlier this month, will be asked to consider adding an ‘abortion reduction’ plank to the party platform.

“Abortion reduction should be a central Democratic Party plank in this election,” Wallis told ABC News. “I’ll just say that flat out.”

Wallis, who hosted a Democratic candidates’ forum on CNN last year, discussed his plans after defending Obama against Dr. James Dobson’s charge that the Illinois Democrat distorted the traditional understanding of the Bible when he spoke to Wallis’s Sojourners group in 2006.

Beyond his plans to make a personal plea to Obama, Wallis said that he pitched the idea last week to DNC Chairman Howard Dean. The Rev. Tony Campolo, who sits on the party’s platform committee, also supports the plank and plans to push it, according to Wallis.

“This is going to be a big Denver conversation,” said Wallis. “You don’t have to call for criminalizing anyone. You don’t have to take a different stance about a woman’s right to choose. But you begin with the need for reducing abortion dramatically.”

The abortion reduction plank that Wallis envisions would call for making adoption easier, supporting low-income women, and stepping up pregnancy prevention efforts.

Without calling for restrictions such as parental consent laws, Wallis believes that if the Democrats were to alter their abortion platform, it could help them make inroads among young evangelicals and Catholics.

“Taking abortion seriously as a moral issue would help Democrats a great deal with a constituency that is already leaning in their direction on poverty and the environment,” said Wallis. “There are literally millions of votes at stake.”

page one of the afternoon edition of The Note (full text).

moiv on Jim Wallis and his long (and obscured to aid the Democrats) extreme anti abortion agenda.

73. marisacat - 24 June 2008


knob polishing. By tongue.

74. moiv - 24 June 2008


Shouldn’t be a problem, since Obama already has promised as much to Kmiec, and probably to others.

75. Arcturus - 24 June 2008

(forgive . . .

Lisa J on Jess:

What can we say about Jess? One of the greatest artists of the 20th Century for sure. A champion for the independence of the artist from the bullshit of the art world for sure. And most of all, a role model for all householders who build their households as sanctuaries against warring tribes.

76. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

Who knows what Obama told that closed meeting of Christians he met with recently? Afaic, that meeting was scarier than Cheney’s famous energy policy clique meeting out of the public eye. But, again, Obamakins will forgive Obama anything as long as he smells like “hope” (for whatever) to them.

77. moiv - 24 June 2008

pinche tejano worming his way back into Naranjastan.

He could have simply kept his mouth shut … except that he couldn’t.

78. marisacat - 24 June 2008


well I figure this is early release of what has already been decided. As no MSM link was part of what The Note carried. By Thursday there will be something in the media… ready for Unity NH.

79. bayprairie - 24 June 2008

looks like the insurgen$y wing of the democratic party that hangs out at dkos is out to rehabilitate the southern baptists.

prolly on a mission from god.

80. moiv - 24 June 2008

catnip, I have come across a number of reports on what was said at the meeting — or rather, on what was asked.

CBN News: Obma Meets with Christian Leaders

Two sources who knew about the ‘private’ meeting said other attendees included conservative Catholic constitutional lawyer Doug Kmiec; evangelical author Max Lucado of San Antonio; Cameron Strang, founder of Relevant Media, which is aimed at young Christians; the Rev. Luis Cortes of Esperanza USA; and Paul Corts, president of the Council of Christian Colleges and Universities.


Cizik said the issues discussed Tuesday included “protecting the traditional family, same-sex marriage, gay rights, religious freedom, genocide, poverty and hunger in America, and how we might even improve America’s standing in the world.”

He said he told Obama, “Religious Americans want to know why is it you love this country and what it stands for and how we can make it better.”

Participants Agree Not to Discuss Responses

Cizik said participants agreed not to give specifics of Obama’s responses to their questions, but that “there was nothing softball about this meeting and that’s the way he said he wanted it.”

81. marisacat - 24 June 2008


oh but did pinche say it before or after he swallowed the shot glass?


82. CSTAR - 24 June 2008

# 68

That’s an eye-popper all right. One of the phrases that I often use in regard to US imperialist ambitions is “war from China to the Mediterranean sea” It never occurred to me until reading the possibility of a army of xtians emanating from China. That crusading army is hopefully many, many years away.

But that article really does confirm a fear of mine that America though not “La fille ainée de l’église” will very likely become “Sa fille cadette”. That other offspring, Brazil “est la fille fichue” she is hopeless. Too much nudity. Too gay friendly.

83. marisacat - 24 June 2008

I read around 4 or so reports, they all were very similar. They met with the secular pope. A hushed atmosphere prevailed. They asked from their heart of hearts, knowing they were sworn to silence, upon the blood of their mothers.

Another pulpiteer (thanks to Rev Moss for that word, last I read, out on his ear at TUCC as Wright moved back in, lol) thrust on the nation. So blessed. Or blasted. Or…

84. moiv - 24 June 2008

Here’s a first-hand report from “Obama’s ‘off-the-record’ meeting with Christian leaders.”

I’ve never been invited to meet with a Democratic presidential candidate. So I was surprised when I received an invitation a couple of weeks ago to join “a small group of religious leaders, academics and faith-based organizations” to meet with Senator Barack Obama in Chicago on June 11. Since I am opposed to the leftist political stands of the Democratic Party and of Obama specifically, I didn’t really want to attend.


What could he have in common with “conservative” Christian leaders?

I returned from the meeting very concerned. Here is a liberal—Obama–reaching out to the Christian community at a time the conservative–Sen. John McCain–seems to be distancing himself from the so-called “Christian Right.” I think McCain has a lot of work to do to get the support of the Christian community. Obama seemed to have the support of at least half of the 43 leaders who attended the Chicago meeting. And in my opinion, he “made points” with the rest. The tone of the meeting was respectful and generally upbeat.

I was curious to see who would attend. They wouldn’t release a list of invitees ahead of time. It turns out my son Cameron, who founded Relevant Media Group, was also invited. But neither of us knew this until I copied him with an email saying I intended to go, and he told me he was also attending.

The invitation to the meeting stated, “This is an off-the-record (no media) time for questioning and listening, with no expectation of endorsement.”

We were told that some of the attendees, who covered a wide range of the Christian community, wouldn’t come if the meeting was on the record.


So I am merely reporting my personal reflections of the meeting with Sen. Obama while keeping my word about it being “off-the-record.”

Sen. Obama personally took time to meet each person and shake their hand. He’s not as large a man as I envisioned from seeing him on television. But, he’s warm and personable — obviously one of the reasons why people like him. He seemed to remember names well. He hugged a couple of the participants—mostly the black preachers who attended. He also seemed to be on top of the issues; and he’s obviously very intelligent.

The questions were mostly “softball” questions in my opinion. I was concerned after three or four general questions that we wouldn’t ask the most important questions. So I raised my hand and he called on me. I said, “Senator, I want to ask a question I’m sure you are expecting regarding your position on abortion. I represent a segment of the church where nearly everyone considers the issue of supporting life to be the most important issue and where nearly everyone would be opposed to abortion. I want to ask what your stand on abortion is and if you believe what I think you believe, how you justify that with your Christian faith and why you think we should vote for you.”

Since his response was “off-the-record,” I can say that the time he took to answer was probably 15 minutes. He came across as thoughtful and much more of a “centrist” than what I would have expected. He did not appear to be the crazy leftist that is being supported by George Soros and his radical leftist friends. Sen. Obama looked me in the eye as he answered my question, almost as if it were a one-on-one interview. I had already read the chapter on “faith” in his book the “Audacity of Hope.” If you want to know how he answered the question, read that chapter. In other words, other than his demeanor and obvious attempt to win over the Christian leaders in the room, he didn’t say anything new.

Sorry, if you want to know more, you’ll have to buy the book.

85. marisacat - 24 June 2008


and is that before or after the Southern Baptist conf swallowed the gay boy from New Orleans. Cuz you know they go there for that, when not in small town white religion church, on view, hands in prayer mode.

I just read that Haggard has left yet another Cure All or whatever it is, and is no longer associated with his church in any way.

Find Jesus!.

86. marisacat - 24 June 2008


I agree… and other than a 3 parter I read at ATimes a few months ago (and posted here) from a German intell officer, now retired, who writes under “Axel Brot”, one of the better long range views I have read.

87. moiv - 24 June 2008

I’ve read several reports on this meeting, and “off the record” seems not to mean the same thing after the meeting as it did beforehand.

It began as an assurance of privacy for the preachers, who now are talking freely about what they asked Obama, maintaining that the vow of secrecy covers only Obama’s answers to their questions.

Mark DeMoss, a spokesman for the Franklin Graham, who succeeded his father as head of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, said Graham asked Obama whether “he thought Jesus was the way to God or merely a way.”

DeMoss declined to discuss Obama’s response, but said he found the senator “impressive” and “warm.”

Lots of snips like that one.

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

I’m sorry, the whole idea of meetings being “off the record” when you’re running for the highest office in the nation is bullshit.

Fuck Obama.

89. marisacat - 24 June 2008

LOL Wonder how many federally funded abstinence coaches he has met with. Cuz you know they want their rice bowl.

Kathryn Jean Lopez at NRO gets to whine and dine on cutting off federal funds for subsidised birth control but abstinence coaches (like nearly all of the greedy religious, they look like felons, 5 times over) keep and gain, as the Dems keep the money flowing for abstinence programs.

The Kirbyjon Campbells (married Jenna and a regualr on the Friday am Oh Bama conf prayer call) and that sort want their rice bowl. Their FEDERAL rice bowl. Their city rice bowl and their state rice bowl.

90. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

84. I recall one article right after the meeting that listed only 4 people who had met with him – those names had been approved for release. In this atmosphere of suspiciousness about the religious right’s continuing agenda and influence you would think Obama would have been transparent. Once again – absolutely tone deaf and defying what he claims to stand for. Oh, but he’ll be different once he’s president! say his supporters. Get real.

15 minutes to answer a question about abortion? ?

Did they anoint his feet with oil?

91. moiv - 24 June 2008


Dunno, catnip. Like the man says, gotta read his books — both of ’em.

92. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

Some of us old farts who have read a lot of books are aware of the Enlightenment and why it was important – why it gave us whatever freedoms we have today.

Because for the first time, people were throwing off the yoke of religious domination and were saying, “Hey, we don’t need to tolerate this anymore. We can think for ourselves. We are each self-directed individuals, not sheep mindlessly following a leader. We have better things to do than to be victimized by religious zealots.”

We old farts also have some knowledge of the history of bloody religious wars – not only the ones versus the “heathen” non-Christians, but the ones of Christian sect against Christian sect. Fucking insane.

People who don’t know about these things will think it’s perfectly fine for Obama to have hugger-mugger policy meetings with religious weirdos.

93. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

80 – I’m fascinated by this guy’s priorities:

Cizik said the issues discussed Tuesday included “protecting the traditional family, same-sex marriage, gay rights, religious freedom, genocide, poverty and hunger in America, and how we might even improve America’s standing in the world.”

So same-sex marriage and gay rights (presumably, the elimination of same) are more important than genocide, poverty and hunger in America, and improving America’s standing in the world?

And what is “protecting the traditional family” all about – protecting knuckledraggers from the hideous sight of women making the same salary as men?

94. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

I like this, from the article about Carlin:

“The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they’re an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They’ve got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They’ve got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying — lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else,” ranted the comedian whose routines were studied in graduate schools.

“But I’ll tell you what they don’t want,” Carlin continued. “They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. You know what they want? Obedient workers — people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they’re coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club.”

I loved Carlin. I fondly remember one of his appearances on the Johnny Carson show during which he told stories about his boyhood in Catholic school. It was a scream. I loved the stories about the “brother” who would silently glide everywhere, no feet visible under the long robes, and would appear at Carlin’s elbow the moment he was doing something bad… etc. Obviously even as a child, he was one of those people who Just Didn’t Fit Into the Hierarchy.

95. moiv - 24 June 2008


Cizik and his little buddies will just have to slug it out (off the record, of course) with the “segment of the church where nearly everyone considers the issue of supporting life to be the most important issue.”

96. marisacat - 24 June 2008

From the pinche pinche diary at Dkos… wanna be back in!

The original pinche tejano (5+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
ksh01, MajorFlaw, mango, MBNYC, DemocraticLuntz

seemed to be a real person.

So this one is a composite from PFF?

by mariachi mama on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:58:53 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

I used to really like his diaries (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:

Until he turned into a Paulista.

by mariachi mama on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:01:35 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
Ah, Mariachi Mama. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
mariachi mama

You were a special case.

There are exceptions to any rule, and I broke character many times to talk to you.

by le monsieur corsaire de la Nouvelle Orleans on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:06:11 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

he claimed to be working for R Paul, birthed by him in ‘podunk ditch by the road’ somewhere in Texas… and so on.

Most of his incarnations were brute and nasty (he’s been fluffer and enforcer over there), so I assume m le corsaire de nouvelle orleans is hiding his vampyre teeth tonight.

(link to the diary at moiv comment at 77)

97. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

95 well yeah, it continually amazes me how concerned some people are about “supporting life” as long as that means “forcing women to give birth against their will” but they’re not at all interested in stopping war. Or even supporting poor families.

98. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

91. Dunno, catnip. Like the man says, gotta read his books — both of ‘em.

That’s one way to line his pockets even more. Not gonna happen.

I saw a dkos rec diary earlier today about arming the hordes over there with The Beatitudes to fight off the Christian right. No need for that when Obama’s busy sermonizing privately to them anyway. All things to all people. Get yours now.

(Raise your hand if you think the meek will inherit the earth. Case closed.)

99. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

Oh lawdy, pinche tejano. Who the fuck cares.

Some people view the internet as an opportunity to try to be a self-published Hunter S. Thompson. So they go for the gonzo gusto. They fail to notice that he could actually write and think.

100. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

46, kraant –

HRH, the comment I was replying to (#23) pretty much described this place as a womb. My only real question is, was it conscious or unconscious.

Um, no, it was obvious that the commenter was talking about other blogs. For example, PFF, which you frequent.

So what, again, was your question?

101. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Obama spokesman Bill Burton on October 24, 2007:

“To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”

Barack Obama, June 20, 2008:

“Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.”

102. moiv - 24 June 2008

So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.”

Does that mean that he’ll take time out of his daily presidenting to sit down and clap on a set of headphones?

That’s probably off the record. I should have known better than to ask.

103. keirdubois - 24 June 2008

99. Heather, I resemble that remark. The gusto bit, not the writing/thinking bit. Touche.

104. CSTAR - 24 June 2008


Frontline from March 2008 Neo Nazis in Chile


105. bayprairie - 24 June 2008

oh my. so instead of the constitutional guarantees of the 4th amendment we get stuck with a presidential pledge?

106. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

103 – well, I wasn’t talking about you. I haven’t seen you inhabiting the HST-wannabee persona. But maybe I’ve missed your greater flights of fancy.

107. moiv - 24 June 2008

I couldn’t resist.

You must be one of those purists (4+ / 0-)

I keep hearing about, those whiners who expect politicians to stand by their promises.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton on October 24, 2007:

“To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”

Barack Obama, June 20, 2008:

“Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.”

Just keep repeating “The perfect is the enemy of the good” until you pass out, and you’ll be fine when you regain consciousness.

by moiv on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:00:56 AM CDT

108. keirdubois - 24 June 2008

106. You didn’t miss much. It was/is lots of fun for me, but probably not for others. I’m not exactly a world-class draw, but I don’t take it personally. I was always more into the HST for writing instead of chemicals anyway.

109. CSTAR - 24 June 2008

# 107

In my opinion, irony may just be a wee bit too subtle a device for naranjistas.

110. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

Hey CSTAR, are you in Brazil? That’s one of the countries on this planet I haven’t yet been to and I really want to visit.

I love Brazilian music – maybe because I happened to grow up on the block in Manhattan known as “Little Brasil”. In the late ’70s and early ’80s, the local Brazilian merchants would stage street festivals from time to time. There is nothing quite like waking up early in the morning to the sound of samba bands down in the street.

I went back there a couple of weeks ago and found that while some of the Brazilian restaurants had closed, there was one left that offered a pleasant sidewalk table and a great cup of coffee.

111. liberalcatnip - 24 June 2008

so instead of the constitutional guarantees of the 4th amendment we get stuck with a presidential pledge?

Not to worry. He comes with his own seal and everything (oh ye of little faith).

112. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

moiv, why don’t you just write a diary excoriating the lameass Dems for leaving women in the ditch?

So they ban you – big deal.

113. CSTAR - 24 June 2008

# 110

No I lived and worked there for a decade, but live there no longer. I’m Latin american but not from Brazil though. However, there’s a lot of Brazil in the Northeastern US. If you’re in New England often ( am there frequently) East Cambridge and Somerville are Brazilian enclaves with nice restaurants and lots of brazilian flavor. Most of the brazilians there are from one city in Minas: Governador Valadares.

114. moiv - 24 June 2008


Well that certainly would be an incentive, but I’ve started a dozen pieces in the past several months, and then find myself without the want-to necessary to finish them. However, I’m building a file on the current Xtianista push, and I keep telling myself that I have a reason for that.

It’s all going to come to a head in Denver, especially with Pat Mahoney and the Army of God-connected Survivors of the Abortion Holocaust now planning a major action “surrounding” the convention center.

With Wallisites on the inside, and the outlaws outside on the street creating lots of Kodak moments (which they always thoughtfully post online), it will be hard to cover up the nearly inevitable cave-in.

So maybe I’ll get motivated.

115. marisacat - 24 June 2008

nu thred………………


……………. 8)

116. marisacat - 24 June 2008

Yes Wallis clearly is excited, I would alsmot say pre orgasmic, about Denver. I found that interesting. Interesting tooo is if funding for the damned thing picks up (as of a few days ago still lagging). Last I read Pope Obama was being delicate when asked to chip in for his baptism, annointment, crowning. I bet they have designs in mock up for the ermine and septre.

So sweet. LOL

117. moiv - 24 June 2008

The Catholic scuttlebutt says that the ermine and sceptre are in the pipeline — Signed, Sealed, Delivered … Eventually.

[fixed the link — Mcat]

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