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hmm mmm beats being a jackass ……;) [WHUPDATE, titmouse bleed] 24 June 2008

Posted by marisacat in Big Box Blogs, DC Politics, Democrats, Divertissements, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, la morte de St Germain Dog - the best the BLAHgers had, Political Blogs.

beats being a jackass... LOL

gatto kiev

nothing much to add… 😉

Tho, here are the Obama comments from my comment in the last thread, with the original links

Obama spokesman Bill Burton on October 24, 2007: “To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”

Barack Obama, June 20, 2008: “Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.”

Tidbits from October, at the TPM link…. Enjoy!



I see a titmouse has bled….

So, I say to the belching, bleeding titmouse: put up or shut up.

I have two examples from my own experience (0.00 / 0)

Maryscott O’Connor posted privileged (private) information about me on her site in retaliation for a disagreement we had. I forced her to take down the information, but had to threaten legal action to do so. I have The O’Connor’s home address, cell phone number, and lots of other personal information, but no matter how bad the dispute between us got, I’d NEVER post it

Marisacat posted my IP address on her site–or at least what she THOUGHT was my IP address (turns out that dim old Shadowthief knows how to spoof his IP address!). I have Marisa’s real first and last name and her full address, but once again, I’d NEVER post it. [bolding is mine, Mcat]

Not even Kos or Hunter or the odious Booman stooped so low as to do the things The O’Connor and Miss Kitty did (or if they did, I certainly don’t know about it).

Yet both Marisacat and The O’Connor assume the High and Mighty Pose to this day, despite the fact that both of them are full-fledged members of the Disloyal Order of Hypocrites.*

I appreciate that Peeder respects the online/real life boundary, but I find it a bit depressing that he has to reassure that he won’t. That should be a given.

The ethics of most blog owners, including Moulitsas, O’Connor, and Marisa (real last name redacted to protect the guilty), are a notch below child molestor.

*not actual societies to my knowledge, but you have to admit that if they don’t formally exist, they ought to…

by Shadowthief @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:26:50 AM CDT
Link to the sub thread, link to the PffterPoofter post (a peeder house specialty).

An online friend was passed the comment recently, by an itinerant reader at PFF (anyone wants the email forwarded, let me know)… probably accounts for the delay.

I don’t recall reading the peeder post, nor the comment from the titmouse (with many masks). I think I’d remember such a juvenile declaration.

Again: put up or shut up, to the titmouse with the small, smelly belches. And the many masks.

I have Marisa’s real first and last name and her full address, but once again, I’d NEVER post it.

Too fucking chicken, then email ME with my personal information: Marisacat@aol.com




1. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 June 2008

Supposedly Feingold and Dodd are gonna filibuster the FISA bill

Sen. Russ Feingold: Well, you know, on the domestic issues, the Democrats are doing pretty well, except for when we run into a filibuster. So we have been able to get some achievements. But whenever you come up against one of these national security issues, the President and the fear of Democrats of standing up to the President and the Vice President still have the trump card, and they seem to always win, on whether it be the Iraq issue or the Constitution or the civil liberties issues, because Democrats are still afraid to stand up and say, “Look, we know you’re using fear as a tactic, and we’re not afraid of it.” But unfortunately, they still have the trump card, despite the very low popularity of the President and the fact that it’s a lame-duck administration.

Amy Goodman: Senator Feingold, will you filibuster this bill?

Sen. Russ Feingold: We are going to resist this bill. We are going to make sure that the procedural votes are gone through. In other words, a filibuster is requiring sixty votes to proceed to the bill, sixty votes to get cloture on the legislation. We will also – Senator Dodd and I and others will be taking some time to talk about this on the floor. We’re not just going to let it be rubberstamped.

Amy Goodman: Would you filibuster, though?

Sen. Russ Feingold: That’s what I just described.

Amy Goodman: Senator Barack Obama last year said that he was opposed to granting retroactive immunity to the telecoms, but he has now indicated support for the FISA deal. Your thoughts?

Sen. Russ Feingold: Wrong vote. Regrettable. Many Democrats will do this. We should be standing up for the Constitution. When President Obama is president, he will, I’m sure, work to fix some of this, but it’s going to be a lot easier to prevent it now than to try to fix it later.

He’s gone so damned soft, too. As for that last sentence, Obama WANTS that power … he won’t do shit.

2. marisacat - 24 June 2008

I have maintained that the Democrats have lusted, absolutely, for the power that Bush made real.

But like Waxman, whose chair of the governrment oversite committe in the House had greatly expanded power, made real by Dan Burton (140 subpoenas for Christmas Gate, a christmas card crisis under Clinton) Waxman DID SHIT.

Something about steroids for days as I recall. Useless hearings, whining, letters,

3. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

Yeah, what the country and the world really needs is a Congressional watchdog sniffing out miscreants like Roger Clemens. Every sports fan who was paying attention knew he was on something.

CSTAR from the last thread: I live in NH and go down to Boston sometimes. I’ve noticed an influx of Brazilians in recent years, especially on the Cape. Why do you think they are emigrating? I’m woefully ignorant of Brazilian politics/culture even though I’ve tried to learn through the music.

Several years ago there was a restaurant in Somerville that recreated the churascarria/rodizio style, lauded to me so much by Brazilians, in which the waiters bring around enormous quantities of grilled meats on skewers, accompanied by wine and a couple of small salads. It was really great.

4. Heather-Rose Ryan - 24 June 2008

from the previous thread: moiv, I’m sorry to push you, I know you’re waiting for the right moment. I trust you.

5. moiv - 24 June 2008

Heather, I didn’t take it that way at all. I keep waiting for something to happen that makes me want, need, have to write. Everything is just so extremely and irretrievably fucked up that it’s hard to imagine that anything any of us writes can make a difference to anyone except ourselves.

Probably “only” depression.

6. marisacat - 25 June 2008

From the thread at TPM linked above, the October 2007 statement from Bill Burton


Thanks for the data on the lobbyist contributions from the telecom industry to Hillary and Obama.

[there was about 20K difference in donations -available as of Oct 07 – from an earlier comment and link to Open Secrets — Mcat]

It clearly shows that Obama cannot be bought. He stands on principle and particularly can be relied on to uphold the US Constituiton and Bill of Rights. He does not change his stance dependent on the dollars donated. This is consistent with his not going for corporate money when he graduated from Harvard Law. He went back to the community and worked as a Civil Rights lawyer. Obama’s record of experience is of an individual who cares about Americans and who understands the principles this country was founded on. He knows how to motivate people to be active citizen and informs them of their rights. He does not equivocate like Hillary. He is constant, has great judgment and someone we can rely on and trust. He has experience we can believe on and is about change we can trust.

whereas Hillary beleives that lobbyists are Americans too..thus her unwillingness to state she will not support any bill that grants retroactive immunity to telecoms.

We know who we can trust and we understand who has the clear message we can believe in.

Thanks for sharing that valuable information hadenough.

Obama 08

laugh laugh laugh.

7. penlan - 25 June 2008

From the previous thread:

46, kraant –

“HRH, the comment I was replying to (#23) pretty much described this place as a womb. My only real question is, was it conscious or unconscious.”

You prove my point kraant. You cannot see beyond just that one line that was written. You are in denial at wanting to see the truth as you totally ignore all that was witten prior to the last sentence. If you had read everything you would not have come to such a conclusion.

The high standards of discourse at this blog are far beyond your comprehension & your ability to see the truth when you hear it. You prefer to attack rather than have your tiny, encased-in-the-womb world changed in any way. Discussion is even beyond your abilities as well. Very sad.

8. penlan - 25 June 2008

Did anyone see Kos on KO a couple of nights ago? He said, & I’m paraphrasing, “that he is waiting to see if Obama will filibuster the FISA bill or not & if he doesn’t he will be highly disappointed & will be rethinking his perception of OB.”

Or did I hear wrong?

I haven’t trusted OB since I first encountered him & he is, every day, supporting my opinion & is becoming more & more centrist as you all know.

I’ve always had this image come to mind in relation to BO. The movie “The Manchurian Candidate”, the first version, with Laurence Harvey, Frank Sinatra, & Angela Lansbury. That there is some huge, secret organization behind him that has propelled him into this position & which he will fulfill their agenda if elected Prez. That he is a puppet.

His oratory is very much that of the born-again preacher that whips crowds into a fervor & who blindly follow the man, not the substance as there is none of any real meaning. It’s frightening to see such mass hysteria as I’ve been around this type of sham, many times in the past (never bought into it), & it’s dangerous. It creates bigotry on many different levels & hatred (hidden most times) towards anyone who is not of like mind.

9. marisacat - 25 June 2008

I just think what ever Obama might have been… the fully corporatised US system and the several millions of dollars that quickly found their way to him for re release of his earlier book and second book make him utterly spoiled merchandise.

Not too surprising really. I don’t think anyone reaches the nomination without being fully compromised.

McCain, at 70+, is just an older version, more steeped in corruption, etc.

10. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Wingers and Law n Order types will be tearing their clothes and whatever else today:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:


11. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

They also sharply reduced Exxon’s punitive damages for the Valdez spill, too. Opinion by “liberal” Souter.

12. marisacat - 25 June 2008

And Exxon Valdez is what over 20 years ago.

When we had the spill in SF Bay, some of the first political assessment was, 10, 15 years in the courts.

And that is all to benefit corporations. And people say St B does nto have his marching orders. Marching orders, ermine and sceptre.


13. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Speaking of the Machurian take… Attytood had a classic, where old liberal semi liberal white dogs go to die take on St Ob, FISA, campaign finance flip floppers are us kind of thing… etc.


I will say this: Obama’s actions since claiming the nomination show how ridiculous the wildest Manchurian candidate-spinning Obama haters truly are — pushing the idea that he’s somehow unpatriotic or un-American. In fact, Obama is a politician with a (mostly) good message and a great story who really, really wants to be the president of the United States — and will do or say whatever it takes to get himself there.

Is there anything more all-American than that?

UPDATE: Just saw that Dick Polman made pretty much the same point on this, while reminding us that at least Obama didn’t fry some mentally retarded kid like Bill Clinton did to make the same political point in 1992.

paunches are us. I know the big excuse (I heard it last night on Charlie Rose, Jann Wenner and Graydon Carter were in cigar and fine single malt mode, laughing all the way, their boy has WON, LOL) for Iraq War is going to be

At least he did not start it. INHERITING is different you know, we don’t know we can pull those brigades as per The Plan.

Signed sealed delivered. Gotta laugh. War as legacy.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

Inside Barack Obama’s iPod

Speaking of Wenner’s once-worthy rag.

15. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Actually when I went to th the Attytood site last night, riding at the top was ‘Death of the burbs’… what a shock.

And now topping that is some bleat from the heart. It’s all dying, how did this happen? Mommy! tell me what is happening, Mommy? Are you there?

Shit honey, times are tough. The suburbs, esp since the 70s became quite problematical. Clearly we are seeing the death of the outer burbs. What else, I am unsure.


16. marisacat - 25 June 2008


I think the cover contributes to the ”Great Feminisation of Dem party up chucks”

but I am cynical.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

prepare for the esplosion over at Little Orange Footballs:

Nader: Obama ‘talking white’

Nader was asked if Obama is any different than Democrats he has criticized in the past, considering Obama’s pledge to reject campaign contributions from registered lobbyists.

“There’s only one thing different about Barack Obama when it comes to being a Democratic presidential candidate. He’s half African-American,” Nader said. “Whether that will make any difference, I don’t know. I haven’t heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What’s keeping him from doing that? Is it because he wants to talk white? He doesn’t want to appear like Jesse Jackson? We’ll see all that play out in the next few months and if he gets elected afterwards.”

The Obama campaign had only a brief response, calling the remarks disappointing.

Asked to clarify whether he thought Obama does try to “talk white,” Nader said: “Of course.

“I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas, and have a very detailed platform about how the poor is going to be defended by the law, is going to be protected by the law, and is going to be liberated by the law,” Nader said. “Haven’t heard a thing.”

“We are obviously disappointed with these very backward-looking remarks,” Obama campaign spokeswoman Shannon Gilson said.

“He wants to show that he is not a threatening . . . another politically threatening African-American politician,” Nader said. “He wants to appeal to white guilt. You appeal to white guilt not by coming on as black is beautiful, black is powerful. Basically he’s coming on as someone who is not going to threaten the white power structure, whether it’s corporate or whether it’s simply oligarchic. And they love it. Whites just eat it up.”

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

Some more Nader: Starving Amtrak:

With the rapid expansion of federal spending responding to the perceived national security requirements after 9/11, passenger railroad supporters looked forward to a tripleheader.

First passenger railroad service would have to be upgraded and expanded to facilitate mass population evacuations from cities during attack emergencies.

Second, by embarking on a “national defense” passenger rail program, there would be less consumption of gasoline and less gridlock on congested highways.

Third, the energy efficiency of transporting people by intercity rail and commuter rail would diminish some of the buildup of greenhouse gases.

Right after 9/11, the airlines descended on Washington, D.C. and got a package of loans, guarantees and other federal assistance amounting to $15 billion.

AMTRAK got just about nothing. But then for this vast nation with large pockets of consistently clogged highways, AMTRAK has been getting very little federal aid since its creation in 1971 as a public service corporation. President Bush wants to cut what little (just over $1 billion a year) AMTRAK receives.

Consider this: according to the Government Accountability Office, AMTRAK has received a total of $30 billion during the last thirty six years in federal aid for its intercity train service over the entire country. A few weeks ago, the Federal Reserve bailed out Bear Stearns, a large, reckless investment banking firm on Wall Street for just under $30 billion.

19. marisacat - 25 June 2008


LOL Yes I saw how Ben Smith chose to present it. Which is coming straight from the party, imo.

Well he can now go stand in a corner with Geraldine, right?


If I had not left the party this run would have done it. And of course all Dem leadership and DNC Ex Com etc are NOT racists. At all. Right?

The outcome of this run, win lose or falter is that as usual, black people will be told to bend over and be thankful for all the party did. For them, from the Democratic ecumenical heart.

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

“The level of loyalty directed towards Obama defies logic.”

Millions of people have deliberately made their needs subservient to those of a politician who cares nothing about them. The damage done by Jim Crow, America’s apartheid, is never ending. The desire to see a black face in a high place is an understandable one after so many decades of exclusion, but it is still dangerous to accept this misguided concept.

The natural outcome of misplaced race pride is self-abnegation. The level of loyalty directed towards Obama defies logic, and creates expectations that are ridiculously low. If John Kerry had called adult black men boys or stepped into a primary to endorse a white candidate or a black one, he could not have expected to receive any black support.

Obama is held to no standard at all. He is free to do exactly as he pleases to black people, who are all too happy to go along with any treatment that he chooses to mete out. This sorry state of affairs is the result of years of black political inaction and misleadership. The Congressional Black Caucus long ago gave up the fight, the movement that gave black Americans full citizenship rights has been derided as a relic from a past age, instead of being seen as a blueprint for present day action. It is little wonder that the Obama campaign “come-to-Jesus” meeting is considered a substitute for true political organizing.

BAR is chockablock full of biting new stuff today.

21. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Really all one can do is laugh. Ain’t worth weeping over.

Charlie Rose said that when he wins he is a Global Rock Star… and imo he and Michelle are already counting the money. Lapping at Bill and Hill.

Or so they think.

One thing, things, best laid plans by mice and men, this heavily burdened with expectation, almost always go wrong. In some way.

22. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

US in Military Misstep Over African Oil

In recognition of “the emerging strategic importance of Africa,” President George W Bush in February 2007 ordered the creation of AFRICOM, the US Africa Command.

AFRICOM centralizes all authority for the US military operating in the African region under one command structure. It also transfers many duties that previously belonged to nonmilitary US agencies – such as building schools and digging wells – to the jurisdiction of the Department of Defense. While fighting terrorism in Africa is the primary reason given for the establishment of AFRICOM, oil appears to be the more pressing motivator.

“A key mission for US forces [in Africa] would be to insure that Nigeria’s oilfields, which in the future could account for as much as 25% of all US oil imports, are secure,” explains General Charles Wald, deputy commander of US forces in Europe in an interview with Wall Street Journal writer Greg Jaffe.

23. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Cantilevering St Ob into place is all about AFRICOM. Which is all about China..

More or less.

24. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008


Exactly. Not only that, Carlin served as an acceptable conduit for the darker impulses that, beneath the pretty wrapping, numerous Americans know exist, but wish not to engage. Carlin said what people fear is true, and even then, not all accepted his message. This is why so many people spoke critically of Carlin’s “bitter” later years. As reality worsened, Carlin’s routines kept pace, and not everyone could or desired to do the same. Far from the hooting, clapping seals that Mike imagines Carlin’s audience to have been, there was plenty of ambivalence among those crowds. You could hear the uncertainty in some of their responses. Still, Carlin didn’t let them off the hook.

If this is “mainstream” comedy, as Mike suggests, then we’re living in a golden, satirical age. But it’s not, and the “satire” that Mike believes America is drowning in is largely toothless and ineffectual. Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are sharp guys with smart writing staffs; yet if anyone is cynical, it’s those two, winking at the audience, letting them know that it’s all a joke, and won’t you please consider buying the products that appear between the political put-ons? Your laughter and money are most appreciated.

For all of their “satirical” assaults, Stewart and Colbert believe in the American political system, and push their audiences to participate in it. Carlin was the exact opposite. He trashed not only the system, but the people who keep it alive, which includes all of us. Mike calls this “the comedy of capitulation” which is “precisely observed and exquisitely crafted, and tries to convince the audience that the world sucks, people are assholes, and ‘what can you do but laugh…and watch my special on HBO.’ Its message is one of helplessness and hopelessness and anger, but most of all passivity — which is why its so compatible with corporate comedy.”

Again, this better describes Stewart and Colbert, and to a degree Bill Maher, than it does Carlin. Far from preaching “passivity,” Carlin wanted people to reject the fixed state of American politics, reminding them that under the present conditions, there is no chance for serious change, much less reform, since the owners of the country have the place pretty much locked down. That’s not “capitulation”: that’s recognizing reality. Granted, it’s a tough thing to process, as there is no ready blueprint for a Better Tomorrow. That can only come if enough fed-up people unplug from this savage game, and begin to explore alternative ways to express themselves politically. That won’t be easy or comfortable. Hell, it may be utterly impossible, given what we’re up against, both externally and internally, where fear and insecurity keep so many of us chained to what’s known, however awful it is.

25. marisacat - 25 June 2008

ooo people who wuvved Kennedy for his finding on process and Gitmo are upset whupset over his vote on child rapists… listening to Ron Owen on KGO.

26. liberalcatnip - 25 June 2008

14. I’m waiting for kos to accuse RS of darkening that pic of Obama. Waiting…waiting…

27. NYCO - 25 June 2008

Carlin was really an outsider. Raised by a single mother, and a high school dropout, he didn’t even make it through his Air Force service. He was apparently too intelligent for all that crap. When you spend most of your life not fitting in, if you’re lucky enough to embrace a particular art form (Carlin’s was standup philosophy), you feel much more free to say what you want. Carlin’s cynicism was complex. He cared little for society’s structures, and was a general misanthrope, but most people who met him found him a polite and cordial guy, for all that. He was many things, but he wasn’t mean-spirited. The key to Carlin’s philosophy was that he was “there for the show” — there to watch humanity rack itself up, that is — but “the show” also implies there’s a director. I don’t claim to know what Carlin believed, but it was probably a lot more complex than atheism, or even anti-religionism.

Bill Maher wishes he was Carlin.

As for Colbert, I think he’s less attached to the structures than Jon Stewart is. I still look forward to him developing as a comic and satirist. There is another Press Association speech in him, I’ll bet. He just isn’t as resolute about it as Carlin was.

28. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

#17: Nothing new about what Nader is saying about race. He’s been saying it for sometime now, as in his visit to Camden, N.J., depicted in Crashing The Gates Party.

But now they will act all wounded, as if he’d just grafted it to his agenda three days ago.

For much the same reason, I doubt it would benefit Nader’s cause at all to throw out another olive branch to NARAL and the other Dem-Fems. It would be nice to see, of course, because they too have such a transparently heads-we-win-tails-you-lose approach to outsider candidates and I always welcome a chance to see it exposed. But that won’t happen.

29. marisacat - 25 June 2008

St ob responds to Dobson (I say throw both of THEM in a corner, and don’t let them out, LOL)

“Any notion that I was distorting the Bible in that speech, somebody would have to be pretty hard pressed to make that argument,” Obama said. “It was a speech that affirms the role of faith in not just my life, but in the life of the American people.

Yes ”faith”, that shredded thing, is why I would nto vote for him, pretty simple. his and and his enforcement of ”faith”.

30. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

Also, the not-so-subtle Arab-baiting during Nader’s campaigns is well-remembered by at least some of us. It goes back to at least 2000, when there were the whisperings about whether or not we “good Jews” really understood who we were voting for. Your ethnically dubious colleague is White until he argues with you. Then you revoke his Whiteness, and doesn’t that have a familiar smell to any U.S. Jew with any knowledge of history ?

Priceless. A worth far above rubies, as I quoted during my Bas Mitzvah so long ago. :p

31. marisacat - 25 June 2008


well I am sorry, but nader has a long history of simply ignoring womens’ issues. It is not a big deal, but it is.

I never asked him to be observant, but I did and will note when he is dismissive.

I agree, working for a crusader on a mission in DC is NOT the place, certianly not decades ago, to become a mother. I think he gave two weeks unpaid. I see that as an EMPLOYER problem. When there were few to no safeguards. His crusaders were probably lucky not to be fired, as was often the norm.

But rights are rights. When you ignore some, you ignore others too, in the long run.

he did a lot, he had blankspots. he is single, lives a self regulating life, alone in CT. I would not expect him to be “tuned in”.

And frankly I see no reason for anyoen to JOIN anyone. Democratic Republican or other. Third party is so effectively marginalised that people would have to dedicate their lives to something that may move.. an inch.

There won’t be Andersons or Perots, not any time soon and maybe never. Not that those were pure runs. hardly.

32. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

…well I am sorry, but nader has a long history of simply ignoring womens’ issues…

Don’t be sorry.

My only point is that it would matter to me, and you perhaps and some others, if he suddenly did. But not to the power-brokers who suck up to the DP night and day and call that “feminism.”

The Green Party has had a pro-choice, pro-woman plank for its entire existence, yet they still look right through it.

It’s with the same antennae up that I was following the poster on Shakesville who wanted McKinney to “reach out” more to feminists like her. Some things would be nice to see, but would they really strike a decisive blow against the current alignments that keep elections a closed shop ? It’s hard to believe. 😦

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

Like Carlin, I’m here to watch the show. I no longer even hope for a happy ending, or even narrative coherance.

34. marisacat - 25 June 2008

I don’t expect all things from all people.

20+ years ago I was hopeful for the Greens, mostly as I had some familiarity with the German Greens… .

But I watched it just fade. I think we are too stuck.

But people who work on, on the margins should do what compels them. Without a parliamentary system we are so stuck.

35. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

…on the margins…

[grin] I guess I love those folks because somebody has to. Anyone ready to talk structure is going to get some sort of attention from me no matter how unkempt they are and how much they stammer. :p

Speaking of Carlin, am I the only one who remembers that he had a short-lived FOX show a million years ago ? I still fondly treasure his rant about “loose-fitting jeans.” I should see if it’s on youtube.

36. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Oh have a laugh…

I jsut looked again at the RS cover. Flag pin in place.

lower the casket of the counter culture a few more feet into the ground.

LOL The eyes modestly down cast and the laugh in progress are a hoot as well.

Did the bride wear white?

37. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Well, ”margins” was a location assessment and not a dismissal from me.

38. lucid - 25 June 2008

All the best stuff is on the margins, be art, culture or politics.

As for the Greens – I actually went to grad school with a prominent German Green parliamentarian & had hopes that the motivation & organization of the European branch would rub off on Americans. Alas, after having given money to the party, canvassing for Nader in 2000 and garnering signatures for a Mayoral candidate run in NYC in 2001, the local party still never bothers to contact me when something is going on. I must be on a mailing list somewhere.

39. marisacat - 25 June 2008


some years ago I was reading soemthing or other, a dismissal fo the non religious, that they did not engage in ”hope”. Or some such precursor shit to the Obama run (as I look back).

So I thought, WTF. And decided, as I used to get thru a lot of days on, oh, high functioning auto pilot is a good way to put it, between house, mother, work etc… I decided to sort of monitor my day, what do I think about .

And found that every morning as I swung my feet out of bed, I had a moment of hoping for a better day for the world.

I still feel that way… But, LOL it does not mean I buy the bullfuckingshit from ObMan. And his penitential followers.

IN FACT, what I find deadly about him, is thread after thread, the FIRST, or second or third, excuse for him, is that “he has to be careful, he walks a hard line”. Plus similar gibberish about how we must attend to his needs. yeah and Gandhi had young girls attend to him.

My “hope” does not extend to taking care of the fragile candidate so he can FUCK ME OVER.

I really am laughing now…

40. marisacat - 25 June 2008

hard core pro Israel, pro ‘Iran strike’ being run on KGO/Ron Owens.

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

i hope all the time, because this life is all we have. sadly, i’ve had to reduce the range of my hopes to more personal ones for me and mine, as this country is determined to drive its collective gas guzzler off the cliff.

i certainly don’t get how people still put their hopes in politicians.

42. marisacat - 25 June 2008



43. wilfred - 25 June 2008

You gotta love San Francisco. The NY Times today reporting that an idea hatched in a bar is now on the ballot in November. The plan is to rename the water treatment facility “The George W. Bush Sewerage Plant”. Love it!

44. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008


Nor I, lucid. Though to be fair, it wouldn’t matter so much if they were on my tail for money once a month like everyone else;I still wouldn’t have the money for them. Not with things going like they are.

This made me happy anyway:

OR Greens To Run Full Slate of Congressional Candidates For The First Time.

Unfortunately, BAN also reports that Sheehan is still barely 1/3rd of the way towards collecting all the signatures she’ll need by the first week of August.

45. marisacat - 25 June 2008


Poor ST never bothered to read what I write about SF.. hardly “my beloved”. My usual phrase, “No one can tear the old harridan to shred like me”… or some such splutter.

It was founded by Southerners and retains strong ghosts. It is barely integrated, only in parts. And we are so liberal. No, we are a Democratic machine town.

But he is man who was ignorant of how DiFi rose to the mayoralty. Knows so much.

And this is not a pro Dem party site, nor is it pro Catholic and certainly not pro religion. Quite the opposite. LOL

Meteor Blades big bleat, carried out in these threads often, across a year or more, was that I beat up too much on the Dems. Right, gotta pet them and straighten their fur. All of the time.

It really is funny.

46. marisacat - 25 June 2008


I am unsure how many are running… (wrt Sheehan)… another candidate, Shirley Golub, is also making an insurgent showing – and before the recent vote was runing some TV ads. Not bad at all either…… alst I heard she had collected over 100K, but I don’t know the status of her petition, if she is running one to get signatures…

47. marisacat - 25 June 2008


I came across some local reporting on that a couple of months ago… I think it is a good gimmick. Works for me.

48. NYCO - 25 June 2008

It is interesting how Carlin’s death is the first entertainer death in a long time that seems to have snuck up on us. It feels like we’ve lost a rather significant American cultural figure, and that his significance was more than people understood, until now. I also think people assumed he would be performing on stage until he was 100.

49. marisacat - 25 June 2008

well even tho his health was rocky… when he had chest pains he checked in, was kept and still died. I have not read details on the heart condition or the attack that did it… I assume it was massive as none of the quick and ready fixes in a major hosptial saved him.

50. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

44. That’s wonderful news. They’ve almost disappeared here locally – don’t think their web page has even been updated in 3 years. Naive as it was, the only time I’ve been excited about a politican was when Jerry Brown was elected guv here – that lasted a few months before wearing off & I’m happy to report I’ve been fairly sane (electoral-wise) ever since. It’s seemed more prudent to put what little energies I have into the tortoise-like epic battles that just might, mebbe, make a diff someday.

Not sure which bothers most about those Obama meeting reports moiv posted – the whispers themselves, or the utter lack of forthright transparency from the campaign.

Gilberto Gil was on DN! this am.

as to the Constitution? apparently we barely knew ye

51. wilfred - 25 June 2008

48. HBO is airing 11 of Carlin’s TV specials today and tomorrow. I’m looking forward to catching a few.

52. liberalcatnip - 25 June 2008

Holy What the Hell are you Smoking, Batman?? diary

Greatest Obama Quote Ever

by mobilio316
Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:20:32 AM PDT

In the new issue of Rolling Stone, Barack Obama gave perhaps the greatest quote in the history of democratic politics. The greatest sound bite. The best, most reassuring statement about how he will handle this presidential race. It reiterates my belief that this will be no 2004, no Willie Horton type of year. Obama will not be swiftboated.

* mobilio316’s diary :: ::

Per the New York Times:

It was not all about pop culture. When Mr. Wenner asked how Mr. Obama might respond to harsh attacks from Republicans, suggesting that Democrats have “cowered” in the past, Mr. Obama replied, “Yeah, I don’t do cowering.”



53. marisacat - 25 June 2008

well locally the Green candidate did get elected in Richmond. I have posted (but just in comments) that i think the whole of th story over there contributed to the Dkos Chevron ad love affair.

he started ir around the 2006 election, she ran agaisnt Chevron and the incumbent DP major, who had taken a large amt of money from Chevron.

I have not looked back (that was several months ago that i poked around, during Chevron protests and then there release that they would be refining a crudere form of oil and thus be a bigger pollutor) since…. so not sure how she is doing.

54. marisacat - 25 June 2008


Jerry made a lot of mistakes. And some more as Oakland mayor. If Villaraigosa green lighted MacArthur Park (and I think he did, while handily in Mexico) we KNOW Jerry green lighted firing rubber bullets on protestors against the war, back in 03 (if I recall correctly)

55. lucid - 25 June 2008

Mcat – 45. That thread is riotous – between hairclub calling me a ‘pomo hipster bigot’ and shadowthief telling me I’m gay and devore in denial that she picked fights with nearly every poster here… funny, funny

As for Carlin it was definitely a surprise for me as well. I knew he’d had health problems in the past, but the last several times I saw him on television he at least looked and acted fairly healthy.

56. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

like I said, JB wore off very quick – sorry I wasn’t clear about the Greens – I meant the Sacramento area – seem to remember that there are also some greens elected in Oakland (& who are supporting BO)

Richmond – uggh – yes, the city council voted to not approve Chevron’s overhaul plans (which certainly look to be preparing for processing heavier, dirtier crude) – & just last week voted again to reverse themselves

One aspect of Carlin’s genius that gets shortshrift is his simple act of paying close attention – really listening – to our daily language. Its puns, contra-dictions, para-doxes & inanities.

a ‘doxologist’ of the 1st degree

57. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

lucid, I am loving that thread in so many wrong and unnatural ways. Shameful, but true.

If you don’t change your blog’s name to “Attack of the Pomo Hipster Bigots,” I’m stealing it for myself.

58. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

BTW, do I need to redo my scorecard regarding Shadowthief ? I thought that “he” was really a she. [confused]

59. marisacat - 25 June 2008

apparently there is a joke around:

So, did Obama really kill a seal that was under a week old?

60. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Brig Gen Odom died… Telegraph UK

He oppsoed the Iraq War from the get go, and awful as Larry King is he had him on often, before invasion, during the weeks of invasion and afterward. Hudson Inst, obviously a conservative and mil, but so good on the war.

On a related note, I think WAR! and warmongering is why the Dems are trying to reduce Byrd’s power, or part of it. For his faults, he was a strong voice agaisnt GWII, and i think would be against widening war.

OTOH, not only R fostered and pandered to Strom Thurmond (who went on serving when spending EVERY WEEKEND in Walter Reed), the Dems did as well. You know, the certified non racists.


61. bayprairie - 25 June 2008

lucid, I am loving that thread in so many wrong and unnatural ways. Shameful, but true.

KKKurly Larry and Moe, the pff trio of strutting puffer prairie chickens

peacocks they ain’t.

62. marisacat - 25 June 2008


LOL no idea. you know us in the Bay Area, we are all in drag.

63. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

…the pff trio of strutting puffer prairie chickens…


I’d share my favorite bbq recipe, bay. But I’m a Yankee so the lime-garlic-mustard fusion ticket is more my style.

64. marisacat - 25 June 2008


I jsut noticed that ScaredThief calls me a racist (I link to the comment upthread at 45) about Chinese, Chinatown in that comment in the ‘Ghost” splooge thread.

HERE is my post on Chinatown politics. He had ample opportunity to call me a racist.

And I am still waiting for him to publish my personal info (see update to the post) or email me iwth it. PUT UP OR SHUT UP..


65. lucid - 25 June 2008

re: shadowthief. I’m beginning to think shadowthief is responsible for a whole hell of a lot of blog personalities. I know ‘it’ has been ‘the blogging curmudgeon’, ‘shadowthief’ & ‘vicky the viking’. But I’m also beginning to wonder if ‘it’ was also ‘monique radevu’ and ‘prince vogelfrei’ on dkos. The latter two might be far fetched, but there is something ineffable that makes me wonder. ‘It’ has also claimed, twice now, that ‘it’ has overtaken the identity of a long-time commenter to this site who no longer posts here… who knows.

66. marisacat - 25 June 2008


Just found catnip in spam file… up at comment 52

67. marisacat - 25 June 2008


The woman who used to post with him at The Blogging Curmudgeon (forget her name, Curmudgeonette? ) had said that he had developed lots of masks… mnay of them women and that the female personas were the more complex.

I have no idea.

68. liberalcatnip - 25 June 2008

65. ‘It’ has also claimed, twice now, that ‘it’ has overtaken the identity of a long-time commenter to this site who no longer posts here… who knows.

Bottom line: “It” needs serious therapy.

69. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

22. that’s Antonia Juhasz – I linked to another copy of that piece the other day – she’s a name worth keeping on yr radar- again, she was one of the organizers at the Richmond Chevron protests this year

Michael Hudson’s on Guns ‘n Butter right now — just said he wouldn’t be surprised (& Wall St is talking privately about) if gas to goes to $16/gal in 5 years . . .

70. marisacat - 25 June 2008

it’s it it it it it it it it it it

ST is a ballerina, twirling across the stage. Different colored tutus.


71. marisacat - 25 June 2008


thanks for that tidbit…

72. marisacat - 25 June 2008

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreaking news:

Sibelius PREDICTS (you have to love that!) Republicans will play the race card.

I say, Democrats played it first. No really: remember the Dixiecrats.

73. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

Ishmael Reed had another piece up @ CP yesterday, on BO’s Daddy’sDay speech – what gets marked racially, what doesn’t – sure to offend someone

74. marisacat - 25 June 2008

thanks A

I will go hunt it up.

BTW I see that Obama is now denying he did more than email Scarlett Johansen (once! once I tell you!) with “Thanks for your good work” or some such.

4 months to go… will the joke hold.

75. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Just a quick snip from Reed at CP

A smug John Harwood of The New York Times said that Obama was telling black men to “shape up. ” As long as men of Mr. Harwood’s class dominate the avenues of expression, who’s going to tell white men to “shape up?”Judging from my reading American men of all races, ethnic groups and classes need to shape up when it comes to the treatment of women.

Blaming black men exclusively for the abuses against women is a more profitable infotainment product. Hypocrisy is also involved. MSNBC host, Joe Scarborough, who welcomed Juan William’s latest demagogic attack on blacks, printed in The Wall Street Journal , still hasn’t addressed the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of his staffer, Lori Klaustis (http://www. whoseflorida. com/lori_klausutis. htm) who was found dead on the floor of his office or why he had to resign abruptly from Congress. And is Juan Williams, whose career has been marred by repeated sexual harassment complaints against him really one to criticize the personal morality of others? Is Bill Cosby?

I got quite a kick out of it during Clinton Wars or whatever that was in the late 90s, Juan had to always exclaim, as a form of disclosure that he was under suit for sex discrimination (forget the details) and I read at the time, he had had several suits against him./

Such a fucking peach.

And Scarborough, well, most people online know about the DEAD BODY in his congressional offices (forget if DC or FL, too long ago)

76. marisacat - 25 June 2008

ismael is wrong on Mayhill Fowler however. It was not furtive recording and she has stated she ALWYS recorded when attending camp events and that they knew this. Also that there were at least 100 recording devices in the room.

He listened to that loon political reporter on the SF Chron. Maruccio? Marcuccio? I forget her name.

he can read Marc Coopera nd Mayhill who went thru the entrie process, step by step.

Don’t expect Obama to bring up this rampant substance abuse before a white congregation. He had to just about whisper about the values of blue-collar whites, those whom he said clung to guns and religion; he was exposed by a woman who recorded his comments, furtively. Even though the media, which rank ratings above facts, continue to criticize him for these remarks and have made them a campaign issue, sixty percent of Pennsylvanians, according to an April 17, Zogby poll, agreed with him. (The media were also wrong to suggest that Hillary got the worst of it from the press during the primary. A Pew study from Harvard contradicts this. )

77. marisacat - 25 June 2008
78. marisacat - 25 June 2008

hmm has John Mcwhorter said this? It does not sound like him… he is the Republican’s winger’s anti minority pundit’s best friend (off to goggle)

And if many African-Americans agree with John McWhorter that racist attacks on African Americans, including predatory mortgages, racial profiling, capricious traffic stops, racism in the criminal justice system, job and medical discrimination, outlaw drug experiments and the exoneration of police who murder unarmed blacks will end the day after the election of a black president, they’re in for a big letdown. Again.

79. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

76. agree. & the point he’s making there doesn’t really need the added drama of “furtive”

80. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Obama on executing child rapists

Apparenlty he was asked at an afternon presser, if i find an exact quote will pop i tup.

BTW, he has a series of crimes he feels merit the death penalty.. or, more accuately, circumstances around homicide that warrent the DP. One is a killign within a psecified number of fee t from a church. Dig thru ChicTrib and Sun Times, Chicago Reader, there is a lot there…


81. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

From Perrin’s thread about Greenwald’s comments about IOZ:

…I’ve run into this query countless times. And there’s no answer to it — none that will satisfy the person asking it, which is why it’s always trotted out. One can speak of various alternatives, from grassroots organizing to self-education to politicizing the despised and forgotten, and if your suggestions don’t end with voting for Better Democrats, most liberals will dismiss you as unserious. It must always come back to the mule team, regardless of what the Dems actually do or inevitably stand for. As I’ve said before, the vast majority of libs, especially those who blog, cannot and do not want to see a future where the Dems cease to exist. Hence their bottomless masochism, and their insistence that you join in… – 6/25/08

Perrin sums up for me why I don’t dutifully run out and fetch link after link for the more-and-better crowd. Because their bad faith is unmistakable when one endures it for a number of years. In the end, everything you say to them bolsters their opinion that you should sit down and shut up. One link, one hundred links: It just doesn’t matter. The people who give even 1% of a shit can at least track stuff down on their own, harvest a few salient points that, taken out of context, bolster their argument, and then give you the more-and-better speech one more time.

Of course, everyone knows what you end up with at 1% is some jaggoff loftily informing you that you should vote for Obama despite the fact that he wants to bomb Iran. Meanwhile you should reject Perrin’s rejection of Obama because Perrin wanted Afghanistan bombed.

Hopeless. Hopelessness cubed.

82. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

if anyone’s innerested, Guns ‘n Butter link’s up now:

“The New Road to Serfdom”
Interview with economist and historian, Dr. Michael Hudson, on his newbook in progress, “The Fictitious Economy: How Finance Is Destroying Industrial Capitalism and Paving a New Road to Serfdom.” We examine what is meant by the term “fictitious” as the concept is applied to aspects of today’s economy. We take a look at the role of war and the demise of the dollar, the bubble economy, and what could unfold in the future.

dodged another one w/ the child rapist DP decision – I haven’t looked at it yet – that was another highly emotional wedge that would have opened the DP waaay beyond its traditional terrain

83. marisacat - 25 June 2008

here is the quote from obama presser:

“I disagree with the decision. I have said narrow circumstances for the most egregious of crimes. The rape of a small child, 6 or 8 years old, is a heinous crime and if a state makes a decision that under narrow, limited, well-defined circumstances that the death penalty can be pursued, that that does not violate the Constitution.”

84. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Thanks for the Hudson, I saw he had a new one at CP but did not get back there, yet.

Apparently DC gun ruling expected tomorrow.

85. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

reading Perrin reminded me of something I meant to say yesterday about that ad you linked to – the FISA one – id dit ever occur to them to wonder what party was in the grand house & was vewwy interested in tapping MLK – there’s a convenient but only partially true narrative about this rogue FBI dude . . .

86. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

i83. f a link’s convenient, I need it

87. Arcturus - 25 June 2008

(ne’er mind I see it above …

88. ms_xeno - 25 June 2008

A Seattle Columnist rethinks his opinions on Sheehan.

…I called her misguided and said she was no Rosa Parks. I wrote about “the disingenuous way” the grieving mom had politicized the death of her son, Casey, a soldier killed in Iraq four years ago.

“Saint Sheehan,” I quipped in 2005.

On Saturday, Sheehan fired back, face-to-face.

“Who misguided me?” she said with a penetrating gaze as we sat at a dining room table of her host in North Seattle. “Who said I was ‘a Rosa Parks’? I never made any comparison of myself to anybody.”

The temperature in the room started to rise…

— Robert L. Jamieson, Jr. Seattle PI, 6/9/08

89. marisacat - 25 June 2008


I landed on it at Geraghty… The Campaign Spot. My guess he got it from the barackobama.com site.

90. marisacat - 25 June 2008

LOL from the 2006 St Ob speech on religion to the Call to Renewal bunch:

OBAMA: But what I am suggesting is this — secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. So to say that men and women should not inject their “personal morality” in the public policy debate is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of our morality; much of it, which is grounded in the Judeo Christian tradition.

Over and over with him, I see the door wide open to decide public policy on what should be private god lead moraliity.

His fucking god down my throat.

91. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

As a secularist, I don’t ask them to pretend that their superstitions don’t influence their political beliefs. What I DO expect is for them to be able to give me reasons that don’t rely just on their book/pastor/imaginary friend telling them that it is so.

If you want to see what is wrong w/ people basing ALL of their opinions on their “beliefs”, watch this week’s “30 Days”. Watch the narcissist mormon turn EVERY disagreement about gay parenting into an attack ON HER.

But none of this matters to Kati. By the end of the thirty days in which she lives with Dennis, Tom, and their kids, Kati hasn’t changed her beliefs at all. She thinks they’re great guys, and admits they’re great parents, but she just can’t accept, morally, the idea of them as parents. Doing so, she says, would compromise a fundamental part of who she is.

“What’s fantastic [about this episode] is that everything doesn’t just get wrapped up in a nice little bow,” Morgan Spurlock tells AfterElton.com. “What I think makes 30 Days so great is it shows how imperfect things are, but at the same time it shows how much further I think we all need to go to continue to achieve some level of tolerance and understanding with one another.”

“I’ve heard people say things about gay parents,” says Dennis Patrick, one half of the gay couple in question. “I’ve heard it at the state capitol [where Tom and I have testified about our family]. I’ve read it in the newspaper. And I’ve always thought, ‘Gee, if you just meet us, that’s all it would take. If you could just spend a day with us, your mind would change.’ And I learned that it’s not that simple. They may look at us and say, ‘Yeah, they seem to be good parents and they are nice guys, but it’s still wrong.’ That was new to me. I wasn’t anticipating that.”

Indeed, part of what’s so fascinating about this episode is how this woman, who is clearly neither stupid nor insane, can hold two sets of absolutely contradictory views: that foster care is terrible for kids and that Dennis and Tom are fantastic parents, but that all gay couples, including Dennis and Tom, should not be allowed to adopt, forcing more kids into foster care.

“If she would’ve started changing her beliefs about a gay dad, that would call into question some of her religious beliefs that are telling her this is wrong, and I just don’t think she was prepared to do that,” Dennis Patrick says.

What does the woman in question think about things now? Kati, who declined to use her last name on the show, is refusing all interviews.

Really, fuck Obama and the God he rides into office on.

Oh, and good on Jamieson for owning up to being an ass when it comes to Sheehan’s motivations, as far as he went, anyway.

92. moiv - 25 June 2008

Obama makes it official: Security Trumps Suing Phone Companies [let alone prosecuting them – moiv]

In a press conference on Wednesday, Sen. Barack Obama explained his support for a compromise on FISA legislation, saying that concerns over American security trumped, at this point in time, objections over immunity for telecommunications that participated in the previously illegal program.

“The bill has changed but I don’t think the security threats have changed. I think the security threats are similar,” said the Illinois Democrat. “My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people. I do want accountability, and making sure, as I’ve said before, someone is watching the watchers, that you don’t have an administration that feels that it can make its own determinations about when warrantless wiretaps are applicable without going through a FISA court and that’s what we had.”

Of course, it’s only a “previously illegal program” because the Dems will it so. But watch out for curveballs any time a politician says “per se.”

93. moiv - 25 June 2008

And this has always been Obama’s position, per se … ALWAYS.

94. marisacat - 25 June 2008

LOL ”presidential kneepads”. Vote wearing them…

95. wilfred - 25 June 2008

LOL, just flipped past Larry King at the top of the hour and he was promo-ing the show and said ‘and tonight we have Tim Russert’s only son’…. oy, shades of Jay-zus!

i bet he’d never introduce anyone’s ‘only daughter’ that way.

96. marisacat - 25 June 2008

If anyone is interested, Obama presser, statement and Q&A via CNN. About half way down

97. marisacat - 25 June 2008

Larry Lessig. he so wishes Obama had made recent decisions [public financing, FISA/Immunity] differently.


[B]ut the key thing we need to keep in focus is what the objective here is. This is a hugely complex chess game. (Or I’m assuming it’s complex, since how else can you explain losing twice (ok once) to this President.) The objective of this chess game is to keep focus on the issues that show America why your candidate should win. Keeping focus (in this media environment, at least) is an insanely difficult task. But one tool in that game is picking the fights that resonate in ways that keep focus on the issues that show America why your candidate should win.

That doesn’t mean you (as a candidate) should change what you would do as President. Or change what you would fight for. But it does me that we (as strong supporters of a candidate) need to chill out a bit for about five months.

We (and I think that means all of us) can’t afford to lose this election. When we win, we will have elected a President who will deliver policy initiatives I remain certain will make us proud. If he doesn’t, then loud and clear opposition is our duty.

But that is then. This is now. And we need to remember now: you don’t sacrifice a pawn because you want to kill pawns.

oh hun. lose the prens. i think you are hiding behind them. it;s NOT working

knee pads, order them now for Nov 5. Myabe Larry can get hsi with cute little Free The Net designs.

98. marisacat - 25 June 2008

quite a bit of push back in the Lessig thread Against Obama and agasint LL drivel.. At least as I am in the first 20 or so.

99. marisacat - 25 June 2008

LOL from the CNN transcript:

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) The Supreme Court is expected to rule tomorrow on the D.C. gun ban.

Can you review for us where you stand on that?


OBAMA: Why don’t I wait until the decision comes out, and then I will comment on it, as opposed to trying to prognosticate what the Supreme Court is going to decide tomorrow?

QUESTION: You commented on it before you — you support the D.C. gun ban (OFF-MIKE)

OBAMA: What I have said is that I do not — what I have said is, is that I’m a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, but I do not think that that precludes local governments being able to provide some commonsense gun laws that keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers or children, that local jurisdictions are going to have different sets of problems, and that this is a very fact-intensive decision that has to be made.

But I do think that the Second Amendment is an individual right. So, what I would like to do is wait and see how the Supreme Court comes down, and evaluate the actual reasoning in the case to see how broad or narrow the decision’s going to be.

100. CSTAR - 25 June 2008

Re: Obama’s assertion

secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square.

This is a ridiculous claim, as MitM points out in #91. Secularists view of the public square is just that: it’s a (figurative) forum for public discussion/interaction using a common language. Religion isn’t a common language.

Moreover what does the claim that secularists ask anybody to do anything even mean? I don’t know or care what half the people I talk to believe in. Should anyone? If I ask someone to repair my fridge, I don’t care what he/she believes so long as we’re able to communicate about the relevant facts of the problem.

And obviously if the repairperson starts invoking religion to repair the appliance, the deal’s over.

It’s not entirely clear to me what Obama is up to (it’s more than just vanilla-flavored pandering IMHO), but whatever the ultimate motive, this behavior seems creepy to me.

101. marisacat - 25 June 2008

I am disgusted by the plethora of “exeption” clauses that are appearing, over years now, that due to religion you can opt out of DOING YOUR JOB, or servicing the public across the board. A religious person and their faith are so fragile, must be protected from the rest of us, whoever we are.

ENDA (forget the meaning of the acronym but having ot do with discrimination agsint gays, bill moving thru congress) is moving thru gathering exception clauses… I ahve not looked at it lately but will when I get a moment.

And that over and over I am asked, told, all but told forcefully to acknowledge that these people, displaying themselves publicly, many claiming victimisation as Xtians – and frankly gumming up the works I am told to bow to their moral conscience. ???

My inclination is to spit, frankly.

102. CSTAR - 25 June 2008

Re #3

Southeastern New England (Providence and New Bedford in particular) have had, since the early 1800s, immigration from Portugal (primarily from the Cabo Verde and Madeira) to work in the whaling industry and other sefaring activities. Slowly East Cambridge became a Portuguese enclave. I’m not sure when or why the immigration from Governador Valadares started, but it was natural that iimmigrants from Brazil would look for a place where the Portuguese language was already well-established. Now Brazilians are very much part of the Hotel service industry in eastern Massachusetts. WIth the uptick in the Brazilian economy (unfortunately still enormous wealth disparity), the influx I think has decreased considerably.

If you every go to Rio you must go to Bar/Restaurante Lamas. It’s a historical place, dating from the late 19th century (it had to move at one point for construction of the Metro) but it’s a lively place with great local flavor and food. Fortunately, it still exists.

103. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

Lessig used to be smarter than that.

104. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 June 2008

I’m not discriminating against you if I refuse to kowtow to your nuttery, period.

So sick of superstitious morons and the grifters who pander to them, and that includes Obama.

105. marisacat - 25 June 2008
106. lucid - 26 June 2008

This is a fun subthread

107. marisacat - 26 June 2008

nuu thred……………………….


………….. 8)

108. marisacat - 26 June 2008


LOL titmouse needs a better dressmaker.

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