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Closer to god… 29 June 2008

Posted by marisacat in California / Pacific Coast, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, San Francisco, WAR!.

… and not interested in selling us any bibles.

Condor 72, photo from 2002

Steven Mull was only feet away from this California Condor, bird number 72, a male born on April 12, 2002, as it perched near the Lookout Studio on the South Rim at Grand Canyon Village.

Fewer than two dozen California Condors (Gymnogyps californianus) remained when the last wild individuals were captured in 1987 for captive breeding. [Read more about California Condors and the efforts being made to save the species.] They have since been reintroduced into Grand Canyon National Park and remote areas of California. [Birder’s World]

So many mixed messages about the fires in Big Sur… the first article I landed on and linked to yesterday, seemed hopeful, maybe too hopeful (that the tourists scheduled for 3 weeks from today don’t cancel in a hurry, I guess) as soon after I posted it, I read containment there was at 3%. A few hours later on the evening news, they reported 80% containment.

Here is the answer, too many effing fires to count:

A lightning-sparked wildfire in the Big Sur region of the Los Padres National Forest has burned 42 square miles and destroyed 16 homes. The blaze, which was only 3 percent contained, has forced the closure of a 12-mile stretch of coastal Highway 1 and driven away visitors at the peak of the tourist season.

Farther south in the forest, a wildfire that started three weeks ago has scorched 92 square miles of remote wilderness. It was 80 percent contained Saturday.

11 pm news says the fires have merged.

“This is not going away anytime soon,” said Mark Savage, a spokesman for the U.S. Forest Service.


It’s not fog.

6/26/08 SF in the haze

Haze from a series of wildfires covers the San Francisco skyline on Wednesday, June 25, 2008. Fire crews from Nevada and Oregon have arrived to help California firefighters battle hundreds of blazes that are darkening the sky over the San Francisco Bay area and Central Valley, leading public health officials to issue air-quality warnings. (AP Photo/Marcio Jose Sanchez)

Something’s wrong as the air just got worse in SF at around 7pm Saturday… as we should have (they promised us! waa waa) a front of moist cool air moving in from the ocean. Maybe it went to Vegas to gamble. Or, DC to lose its mind and pad its pockets.

What we have none of, MO is awash

As river rushes into Mo. town, residents file out

WINFIELD, Mo. (AP) — A makeshift barrier holding back the Mississippi River failed early Saturday, swamping the low-lying part of the small community of Winfield and ending a valiant but ultimately doomed battle against the surging river.

“I figured it was a long shot,” said Jan Fox, 50, who finally left her mobile home Friday night when her power went out. She called the show of support overwhelming.

“It was wonderful, all the people who came, the sandbaggers, the military,” she said.

Around town Saturday, gratitude for the last-ditch effort was mixed with a feeling of resignation. Many were ready to move forward.

“It was a valiant effort,” said Chris Azar of the Winfield-Foley Fire Department. “It’s unfortunate that we couldn’t do more, but Mother Nature won. Now, just give it time for the water to recede.”

Across the central part of the state, the Missouri River, which joins the Mississippi near St. Louis, is rising because of heavy rain that fell on Thursday and early Friday. The National Weather Service predicts moderate flooding in parts of mid-Missouri by Monday.

While Winfield lost the battle to save its levee, some Missouri towns have apparently weathered the threat.

The levee held at Alexandria, a tiny town near the Iowa state line, and water is receding, allowing evacuees to move back home. A few houses had water inside, but nothing irreparable.

A massive sandbagging effort was still protecting most of the businesses in Clarksville, and water was still high but receding in nearby Louisiana. Both of those towns don’t have levees.


Back to life and death, of a slightly different sort:

condor feast al fresco....

A HISTORIC FEAST: Seafood Buffet: A pair of California condors get all they can eat on a remote beach in Big Sur.— Ryan Choi, Ventana Wildlife Society

The report is from 2006 so I made like a bandit and stole the whole.... In honor of the vultures, you know.. 😉

He believes that the whale died of natural causes and probably washed onto shore during the last major winter storm in the middle of April. A few days later, the Big Sur community and California State Parks alerted VWS that condors were feeding on the body.

Since VWS started observing the area, the nonprofit’s biologists have witnessed condors on the carcass three or four times a week. One time, field biologist Ryan Choi recorded five condors by the beached whale.

As a plane high above zippers across the sky, Burnett estimates that the condors will probably be able to use the whale as a food source for three to four months. He explains that the condors eat by creating a hole or using a pre-existing one like an eye socket. “They take the path of least resistance,” he says.

Then, they dip their sharp beaks and serrated tongues into the dead animal searching for meat. “They go in like a vacuum cleaner,” Burnett says.

Burnett, who has worked for VWS for 13 years, goes on to say that the condors feeding on marine animals like whales is a truly great thing for the species. Terrestrial creatures like deer often have levels of lead in their systems. Condors, like other animals including humans, can only take so much exposure to lead. Meanwhile, whale meat appears to have low levels of contaminants.

Burnett believes that this event, along with the birds beginning to feed on sea lion carcasses in 1999, is one of the most impressive things that he has witnessed while working for VWS recovery program, which currently has 25 birds released in the wild. The next big milestone Burnett is hoping to see is for some of the birds in Big Sur to hatch a chick.

We watch as a handful of seagulls take their turn and feed on the beached whale. Overhead, a peregrine falcon soars above the carcass, and a Layson albatross makes a landing on the beach.

“There is a whole ecosystem around this whale now,” Burnett says. “I couldn’t have dreamed up this set-up.”

San Diego Wild park

A view of a California condor through its own primary feathers.
Photographer: Joel Sartore Location: San Diego Wild Animal Park, California.


The thing that bothers me is the assumption that if I make a judgment that’s different from yours, then it must mean I am less progressive or my goals are different, meaning I must be not really committed to helping people but rather I am trying to triangulate or drift toward the DLC [Democratic Leadership Council].”




1. aemd - 29 June 2008

Damn. Brava.

Funny, this post takes me back, damn, three decades. Hauling ass outta Vegas on 15 east, in a trashed beater, to explore. Big mysteries to undercover and such sites to see for this old rust belt girl. Don’t know if I had less money or sense. LOL.

Ya know, this really is a beautiful, wondrous country.

Amen. 😉

2. wilfred - 29 June 2008

Here’s a sweet story to counter the Sunday Morning gabfests:


3. ms_xeno - 29 June 2008

Just got in from watering the plants. Still a cool morning, but it won’t last. Saw a number of bees about the flowers, waved at several dog walkers.

Tonight’s schedule included grilled marinated lamb kabobs and sangria. <— I had to mention that in case hrh and IB show up today.

4. bayprairie - 29 June 2008

hair club’s “thoughtful” comment on black movie roles in 1950s hollywood yesterday, combined with this comment, illustrates perfectly his attitude towards women on the left, as well as others who don’t mirror his political views.

I didn’t even bother looking at the respnses (0.00 / 0)

But I’m sure they’re along the lines of


Without addressing the point.

evidently mr hair is no longer discussing things in these threads in anything remotely resembling good faith. he actually seems to be carrying on the conversation with himself.

zero space between him, and rush limbaugh.

5. ms_xeno - 29 June 2008

Meanwhile, if anyone besides me wants a break from the national horse race and the ensuing wall to wall three-act operas in Blogland, several links follow. They’re about the controversy surrounding Instant Runoff Voting in MN. The voters in St. Paul passed it in 2006, but its opponents are trying to prevent implementation on the grounds that it violates the state constitution.

Daily Planet, 6/28/08

TPM, 6/18/08

The “DFL” referred to in some of the pro and con articles about IRV stands for Democratic Farmer Labor, not to be confused with Democrats For Life.

6. ms_xeno - 29 June 2008

bay, reading HC’s ever more desperate and convoluted babbling (as he tries to be a Lefty without turning in his Ron Paul lawn sign) reminds me of nothing so much as a line from an obscure Sherwood Anderson story:

…”You are a dog that has rolled in offal, and because you are not quite a dog you do not like the smell of your own hide…”

For sheer comedic value, it’s hard to top his ham-fisted application of identity politics, seen back to back with his pseudo wide-eyed assertion that race and gender issues aren’t in force for his Blogland allies because you can’t see online if your opponent is male or female.

I weep for my state of origin’s educational system. It was no great shakes in my youth, but clearly it went way the hell downhill in the years immediately following my departure. :p

7. bayprairie - 29 June 2008

well xeno, i shouldn’t be bringing it up either but i’m very concerned about our reputation among the boys. i’d hate to think that they might assume we’d label them sexist just because:

a male comes into a woman run comment space, deposits his comment and then leaves “without even bother looking” (sic) to see the women’s responses. and automatically assumes he’ll be labeled a sexist.

now what thinking person would think there’s anything even remotely patriarchal about that?

i mean its an everyday occurrence… happens all the time.

8. marisacat - 29 June 2008

4, 6, 7

LOL well, you know the old brush off for titmice…

put up or shut up.

9. NYCee - 29 June 2008

Condor is lovely. May they prosper.

Suddenly focusing on them, it occurs to me that they must have a special digestive system, and I mean SPECIAL, to be able to ingest and digest and thrive off weeks’ old whale carcass! Eeeewww-eee! (Now departing disgust — compulsory… or is that compulsive? — to arrive at awed and intrigued.)

Fires are horrifying. May they extinguish. (And quit the sequels!)

Saw a quick-up map this AM of where the fires are in CA. Looks like a blazing beaded necklace looping almost the entire perimeter of the state, in intervals, of course… looked like only a patch of southeast border was free of them… So sorry, all you Californians! Poor wildlife, human life, plantlife… While those of us further removed are not in the immediacy of that hell, as you are, it is a loss for all of us.

Really will send you vibes (as me Mum says), for what they are worth, of relief and healing.

10. marisacat - 29 June 2008

Hersh is up in The New Yorker:

[M]ilitary and civilian leaders in the Pentagon share the White House’s concern about Iran’s nuclear ambitions, but there is disagreement about whether a military strike is the right solution. Some Pentagon officials believe, as they have let Congress and the media know, that bombing Iran is not a viable response to the nuclear-proliferation issue, and that more diplomacy is necessary.

A Democratic senator told me that, late last year, in an off-the-record lunch meeting, Secretary of Defense Gates met with the Democratic caucus in the Senate. (Such meetings are held regularly.) Gates warned of the consequences if the Bush Administration staged a preëmptive strike on Iran, saying, as the senator recalled, “We’ll create generations of jihadists, and our grandchildren will be battling our enemies here in America.” Gates’s comments stunned the Democrats at the lunch, and another senator asked whether Gates was speaking for Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney. Gates’s answer, the senator told me, was “Let’s just say that I’m here speaking for myself.” (A spokesman for Gates confirmed that he discussed the consequences of a strike at the meeting, but would not address what he said, other than to dispute the senator’s characterization.) ::snip::

11. Arcturus - 29 June 2008

5. As Sunny Murray titled one of his albums: Never Give A Sucker An Even Break

thnx for the links

12. Arcturus - 29 June 2008

Love that last shot by Joel Sartore.

9. The plant life will do just fine. Fire is a natural & necessary part of forest & grassland ecologies.

& finally, from one of Big Sur’s resident lovers, who if he were still around today would probably be mourning the fact that all the area’s tourist traps have been saved:


I had walked since dawn and lay down to rest on a bare hillside
Above the ocean. I saw through half-shut eyelids a vulture wheeling high up in heaven,
And presently it passed again, but lower and nearer, its orbit narrowing, I understood then
That I was under inspection. I lay death-still and heard the flight-feathers
Whistle above me and make their circle and come nearer.
I could see the naked red head between the great wings
Bear downward staring. I said, My dear bird, we are wasting time here.
These old bones will still work; they are not for you.” But how beautiful he looked, gliding down
On those great sails; how beautiful he looked, veering away in the sea-light over the precipice. I tell you solemnly
That I was sorry to have disappointed him. To be eaten by the beak and become part of him, to share those wings and those eyes —
What a sublime end of one’s body, what an enskyment; what a life after death.

Robinson Jeffers, The Beginning and the End and Other Poems, 1963

13. marisacat - 29 June 2008

all the area’s tourist traps have been saved:

well, sad to say we all cannot hike the ridges. I never could have done and had to sit and look out where I could.

Other than that, my mother used to quote a line of Jeffers, something along the lines of

And so God clapped his chubby hands in glee.

Seems ever more fitting.

14. Arcturus - 29 June 2008

there are plenty of public access places to sit & enjoy beyond the private stuff – & not suggesting I’ve never taken advantage of some of ’em (teh traps) either – but have little doubt as to where RJ would’ve stood on such 😉

15. marisacat - 29 June 2008

I see the London Times is calling for toppling Mugabe, or one of its sainted writers is.

The big issue over and over with the western powers seems to be how to crush any right to sovereignty, in a modern democratic way of course.. – and the more misery they/we can create in the world, the easier to crush any hope of a border. That argument is what they use Rwanda for, nowadays. What a joke.

I was gagging last night reading Danny Schechter on Mandela birthday. And had he tried to be independent we never would have taken him off the terrorist watch list.

16. ms_xeno - 29 June 2008

#7- well xeno, i shouldn’t be bringing it up either but i’m very concerned about our reputation among the boys…

Me, too. I know I should happily spend all my time futilely trying to clean the offal from their poor stupid hides, but I’m just too selfish. 😉

#11- No prob, Arcturus. I love a good nerd interlude. Also I was amazed that it showed up right away with all those links in tow. Maybe I should believe in hope and change after all. :p

17. marisacat - 29 June 2008

plenty of public access places

I like being served a drink.

Oh would that the world were different. If only. Could it be might it be, we all can clap for Peter Pan. LOL Or not.

18. NYCee - 29 June 2008

Oh, I love that sweet story, wilfred. Love it, and it was a sweet respite. Like this photo of the lovers: Brutus and Lenore, alone in a crowd…

(I saw a similarly touching odd couple video of a pet rabbit and wild fawn meeting up each day in the rabbit’s back yard – playing/chasing each other; lying down together, side by side; going nose to nose with affection…)

Great photos by the photog-writer at his site as well, down on the farm. NY state has some quite lovely small farming… NYC, for all the attention it sucks up, is one small spit of the land mass. And a lot of the rest is heavenly, to trip thru the variations of nature – geographically, seasonally, flora & fauna… Like on Lenore’s farm…


As well as:




Here’s the photo gallery. It’s worth the trip, animal/nature lovers.

19. marisacat - 29 June 2008

I caught a segment the other day of a Rottweiler who has adopted, or been adopted by, a young goat. They companionably spend their days together… and with coats of the same color and variation manage to look related.

20. NYCee - 29 June 2008

Found this while over at Slate: What You Can Learn From Watching 800 Minutes of George Carlin

A few choice bits on anti-abortionistas:

[… ] Yet over the years, Carlin’s routine evolved from a collection of whimsical, if often R-rated, observations into longer, more pointed set pieces, often on politically charged material. Take the evolution of his abortion rant. In the 1982 Carnegie Hall performance, he begins the night by asking: “Have you noticed that most of the women who are against abortion are women you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place?” In ’82, he leaves it at that, quickly moving on to other musings. Eight years later, the line has blossomed into a slightly longer treatment in What Am I Doing in New Jersey? Another eight years later, in 1996’s Back in Town, Carlin not only opens with abortion but meditates on it for nearly 10 minutes, poking holes in the logic of the pro-life cause: “If a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn’t count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there’s a miscarriage they don’t have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say ‘we have two children and one on the way’ instead of saying ‘we have three children?’ “

21. marisacat - 29 June 2008

If a fetus is a human being, insurers should issue policies.

22. NYCee - 29 June 2008


If Gates did indeed say what Hersh says the senator said he said, well, all I can say is – dont you just hate it when someone says they didnt say what you say you heard them say (when your ears were clear and your head was SOBER, no less… and what’s more, when it’s really, really important)?!

23. Arcturus - 29 June 2008

17. yea, yea, & a plumped chair. all the amentities. Jeffers saw what was coming & lamented it. We’re lucky it’s not another S Lake Tahoe. I suppose that’s clappin’ fer PP – then too, so are my feelings about war, equal rights, social justice . . .

gets me thru the day

24. marisacat - 29 June 2008

I can’t remember anymore, I think Gates was confirmed by voice vote. Of course because it does not matter, right? Bush is a lame duck, right?

And most right of all is that the Democratic party is an enthusiastic war monger, as well. Like dear sweet liberal Barack being fine with Rumsfeld, by his own words in 2001.

25. marisacat - 29 June 2008


Oh yes S Lake Tahoe is the poster child. I had a 20 year gap in seeing it., and it had been baaad before. Just motels and gas stations. Solid.

Then again, I am sure the view of the San Francisco ”wall” that comes into view as one approaches via 280 is called “dynamic”.

I’d have preferred more unscheduled open space left in the city, but I think it finally is all gone.

26. marisacat - 29 June 2008


I don’t write and barely read about the war anymore. It is what it was clearly planned to be, as any sentient human could see in 2002. I will leave what will be called “less war” to the Democrats and their “dynamic” new leader. As he and they work to perfect GWoT.

Endless Amen.

27. NYCee - 29 June 2008

200 comments strong and just fallen off the diaries board…

The cost of supporting Israel

Never had a chance for recommend at DK, I guess (dont see what goes down or up there last few months, hardly saw any blogs, working so much.) I didnt more than scan this diary, but liked the general direction of what I saw, so, for what it’s worth, I’m taking it from where it went down in Orange Town and breathing a little more life into it, here amongst the Luverlee Lavender.

28. wu ming - 29 June 2008

danjuma had a pretty good diary on mugabe and the domestic lay of the land in zimbabwe the other day. apparently the current battles between mugabe and the opposition have a fair amount to do with urban vs. rural parties that came out of the anticolonial struggle.

made more sense than the rest of the agitprop crap that passes for news, online or off.

29. marisacat - 29 June 2008

When were they ever not?, I would say. The question and link to the mini debate, was found at Lenin’s Tomb. Their thread, another on the aftermath of the recent UK slates is interesting. Stiff upper somethng.

30. marisacat - 29 June 2008

HA! what a hoot. From Lenin’s Tomb thread…. bingo…

Completely off-piste but I’ve got a theory about Obama. I think he’ll win because a sufficiently large chunk of US capital think that he’s necessary to make up for the massive loss of face and populariy GWB has brought the US worldwide. To put it crudely, their thinking would go: how much easier to exploit the world’s brown people than with a smiley brown person as our president. All we have to do is make sure that he’s on board for the key exploitation program – Iraq etc, (he is) so that we know that he will be again when the next flashpoint comes up on our screens. And the kind of soft anti-racism stuff he talks can be squeezed into a kind of liberal employment agenda, meritocratic, feel-good stuff without anything structural changing.

I’ve talked myself into thinking that there’s a sufficiently large section of US capital that would figure that this guy would be better able to deliver a US public feeling good enough to not riot in the present storm, and a world public feeling pleased that the US has come to see them, without figuring out that their back pockets are being picked. A sort of Nelson Mandela/JFK hybrid.

Tell me I’m wrong.
MichaelRosen | Homepage | 29 Jun, 01:29 | #

And it’s plain as the nose on a face. Luv the last line on NM/JFK

31. NYCO - 29 June 2008

30. Of course Obama-mania is about feelin’ groovy. The primary note in the songs against Bush was all about how bad he made us look. All we have to do is to elect someone who simply “is,” in an ineffable way, the ideal of the American melting pot, and the world will like us again and get out of our way as we continue to run things, which of course, is America’s God-given right. Because everyone on the planet is captivated by the American Story and is eagerly awaiting the next masterful chapter.

20. Regarding “choice”: The NYT has an interesting story today on why (white) women in Europe are failing to have children. What’s the matter with them anyway? The surprising, or not-so-surprising, finding is that in cultures where women are either given generous benefits or otherwise allowed to control their economic future by working outside the home, and where men participate more in child-rearing… well, those women like to have more children. Women in cultures that don’t make it easy for mothers to work, and where men don’t give a crap about home life, have — through the magic of birth control and “just saying no,” — decided not to have too many kids. Countries like Italy, which have poor benefits systems for women and families, where it’s “unmanly” for a dad to change diapers, and which aren’t flexible when it comes to work time, are seeing the biggest population drops. (America is not in such dire shape, if only because while the state is stingy with benefits for mothers, it’s much more culturally acceptable for women to work and for men to change diapers.)

That’s “choice” in action, right there. Why the hell would a woman want to keep churning out children if she feels the economic and emotional support for mothering is just not there? Do people think women are stupid? Saying – on some visceral level – “Nuh-uh, I’m not bringing a child into this world if conditions aren’t right” – is also women’s work. If it wasn’t, God would have given women estrus cycles.

This does beg the question of why women in poor neighborhoods in America do keep having kids (aside from less access to birth control and less sex education): possibly there is a culture where these women believe they CAN get by, because single mothers in the ghetto have been making it happen for a very long time.

32. marisacat - 29 June 2008

honestly vis a vis Europe the NYT article did not make sense to me.

It seemed calculated to obscure many pro family pro child benefits in Europe and the UK.

33. marisacat - 29 June 2008


I have said from the get go, putting Obama in is all about Africom/similar issues. As is Gen Ward, CinC of Africom.

34. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

2. wilfred, nice story and really cute pix but I’m disappointed that the writer is focused on the “love affair” aspect between the dog and the ram, giving it a sexual tone (“it will never work out” etc.), where there doesn’t appear to be one. Of course he may be leaving out some physical details, but it seems more that the two animals have a loving understanding and rapport, as we humans do with our animals. We shouldn’t be so surprised at the idea that animals of different species have this kind of loving relationship with each other. The St Bernard I had as a child would protect my white duck, and they would sometimes sleep curled together. My current dog would often touch noses affectionately with my old cat, and occasionally does with my old parrot. And of course all our pets show us love and affection by cuddling, nose-touching, etc.

Quite different from the “humping your leg” kind of love affair, if you get my meaning.

3. ms. x: good for you! how did you marinate the lamb? Also, I saw something you wrote here recently (I was going away for the weekend so didn’t have time to respond) about a lime-mustard barbecue sauce – would you share the recipe? Because that sounded like it was right up my alley.

17. Mcat – I like being served a drink

Yeah, so do I.

I haven’t been around much in Calif so I can’t say anything about the places you mentioned, but a couple of years ago I went to Venice for the first time and had lunch at an old restaurant on the Grand Canal. The weather was perfect – I was sitting in the middle of a Canaletto painting. The waiter came with a local pinot grigio and a dish of lobster and pasta. It was one of the best meals I’ve ever had.

Many “tourist traps” are as popular as they are because they’re truly stunning.

Regarding the “tourist traps”, one of the nice things about living where I do is that there are several ways to enjoy the NH mountains without being one of those hardcore hikers who have obsessively “bagged’ all the most difficult climbs. Those people can be tedious. There is a small mountain on my road which you can drive halfway up and then take an easy hike about 40 minutes to the summit, which has beautiful unobscured views of the Presidential Range. Also, Mt Washington is a big, powerful mountain that you can just drive right up. From these experiences that are not terribly physically challenging, you can still get the impression of the mystical quality of the mountains, “the evidence of things not seen” as alluded to by mountaineer W.H. Murray.

31: excuse me?? Women “failing to have children”?? Where is this NYT article? I looked on the site but didn’t see it. It sounds like a crock to me.

I did find an interesting piece on Schrafft’s, the “ladies lunch” and ice cream chain, one of my favorite hangouts as a child:

In 1926 Mr. Birge remodeled the majestic old Knoedler Gallery at 556 Fifth Avenue into a new Schrafft’s, keeping the 28-foot-high ceilings and marble columns, and adding a stunning bronze and black enamel storefront.

That was on my block, between 46th and 45th Street. I remember the place very well. It was immense, imposing and had frescoes on the ceiling, with frolicking cherubs, etc. All the better to create the proper atmosphere for you to enjoy your chocolate malt. In the 1960s the frescoes were deteriorating noticeably, but that just made them look more like authentic frescoes.

35. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

26. MCat: I don’t write and barely read about the war anymore. It is what it was clearly planned to be, as any sentient human could see in 2002

Same here.

By the way, thanks for the condor pix and info. I love wild birds.

I’ve been putting feeders out this year for the first time (I was worried about bears, which live around here, but I take the feeders in at night and that works well). There are lovely birds here, goldfinches and rose-breasted grosbeaks, and yes, titmice. Ahem. I must mildly object to your use of titmouse as a pejorative because they are nice, attractive little birds.

Speaking of human-animal communication: a few times I let the feeders go empty, and the birds let me know about it. A pair of goldfinches came to the window and yelled at me. They appear to be the spokesbirds for the population around here.

36. marisacat - 29 June 2008


The article on rates of having babies is in the NYT Mag. Fairly high up they quote the rabid Canadian rightie, Mark Steyn, I am not sure why.

And the extended map of work, family, social welfare net in Europe (imo) has to be broken apart if one starts to compare social welfare $$.

To my eye, toward the end it paints a rosy picture of having and managing and affording children in the US.

It opens and spends much time in a small S Italian town.

However 8 years ago friends of mine moved back to Italy (He Roman, she Brooklyn) in order to have a second child. Here, people were paying (In the East Bay where they lived) 1200 – 2500 hundred a month for childcare. He a chef, she a teacher (she took a salary pay cut to be a teacher) they were limited to a single child, no question.. In Italy they coould avail themselves of state subsidised child care at 50.00 equivalent a month. Now maybe along with incentives that the article repots fell with Berlusconi, it no longer exits.

France;s systems were widely reported on last year when they reached the 2.1 rate. They have promoted benign incentives for families for 100 years. And like Norway, where 80% of first children are out of wedlock, in france it is 50% (and according to reports is the same rate in immigrant communities) and the state does not judge. A child is a child.

Here the overall rate is 37% and all we hear is screams.

Those are figures I read last year, btw, and I assume are a coupel years old, based on reporting lags.

37. marisacat - 29 June 2008

oh the sound of “titmouse” worked. Never any offense meant to the Great Outdoors. And while what they consume in the wild is a great service, when rendering a human to be like a titmouse, it achieved my objective.

38. CSTAR - 29 June 2008

# 27 NYCee

My inclination is to tread very carefully even reading comments of diaries on the ME and Israel, Funny thing, is that more often I don’t feel angry reading these comments, but heartbroken. That was my reaction 2 years ago reading comments in Haaretz during the Lebanese war. The level of anti-palestinian hostility displayed (and also rage by commenters directed against columnist Gideon Levy) was beyond belief.

You’ve got more courage than I certainly to post on that thread.

39. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

OK, I found the NYTMag article. Yikes, it sucks.

I can’t believe anyone was actually PAID for writing utter bullshit like that, much less for the NY Times.

It’s a very long article (the author, I’m sure, counted on that to snow the readers with all his dubious ‘factoids”) so it’ll take a while for me to slice and dice it, but I will.


MCat, read it again carefully, I think you’ll see the political line he’s pushing.

40. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

37 – Oh I know what you meant, and I agree, but I had to speak up for the titmouse.

41. marisacat - 29 June 2008

hmm Dennis Perrin’s “Savage Mules” (published by Verso in the UK and here) is no. 8 at Amazon. I am a little surprised (I think he is too). Shot up immediately.


42. marisacat - 29 June 2008


MCat, read it again carefully, I think you’ll see the political line he’s pushing.


OK I will. But in a while. I slammed it to a single page and went thru it a few hours ago. I kept expecting the author to quote either Booberlicious’ brother who writes (the DLC loves him) on shrinking white pop (the Islamofascists are coming to get us!, is the undertone) or those bizarre xtians, the Quiverfulls. Every sex act for god and procreation, as much as he “gives” us.

43. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

Re: the NYT Mag article: 25 years ago when I first went to Scotland and roamed around the lovely little villages in the picturesque mountains, so far from the cities, so desired by tourists, etc. I noticed they were populated primarily by old people. I asked around – “What happened to all the people? Why are there so few young families?” “Well, there’s no work here. They all moved to the cities.”

This is not rocket science.

44. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

42 – no rush, take your time. The article isn’t going to get any smarter.

45. NYCO - 29 June 2008

What line is the article pushing?

46. marisacat - 29 June 2008


oh very true.. same thing here. Young people leave dying or resource poor areas. They hve to.

47. bayprairie - 29 June 2008

ok lets have some phun with a world class loudmouthed asshole.

i don’t want to bust the tyler texas idiot’s fart-filled bubble (LIE) but he’s completely off base in this comment to ms devore:

Uh, he’s from Texas (OH MY!)…I believe he knows from whence he is speaking (0.00 / 0)

The cream cheese and sausage kolaches are the best…the qwestian is, do you know wtf you are talking bout, ever?

Pierogis are Polish, kolaches are Czech.

Czech, please.

by donkeytale @ Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 19:30:00 PM PDT

typical loudmouth male hot air. always daddy taught him to always try and put the woman in her place. so now he’s also an expert on baking? what a pompous old fool that male is.

here’s the deal. there is no such thing as a sausage kolache.

its a figment of many east texas pit-bubbas imagination and a legend spread by cheap bakeries run by anglos that don’t speak czech, and thus misname. i will admit some bakeries call them that, but that’s neither here nor there, and they ain’t. its like saying obama is a progressive! its just not true!!!!!

czech bakeries call them Klobasniky (the proper term for a pasty wrapped piece of sausage) or in english, pigs in a blanket. a czech kolache has nothing whatsoever to do with a meat filling. for my authority i cite:


over on the sidebar you see the truth, pigs in a blanket. anglo texan males are lazy, as well as stupid, and it was just easier for them to misapply the word kolache to anything remotely resembling a pastry with a filling.

my five bucks says donkeytale he’s never baked a kolache! nor made a filling! and most likely never had one homemade to boot.

so what qualifies him as an authority? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

he’s only eaten them at cheap local dunkin donut style bakeries in bumfuck east texas run by anglos that wrap pie dough around a lump of meat and call it something it isn’t. and they use shortening to boot! plus the alcoholic was probably hung over as well!

oh by the way. kolaches are never ever made with shortening. they’re made with butter. most commercial bakeries don’t “do” butter. want a kolache? make it yourself. plus its usually women that have insight into such things, along with a few men who are more in-tune with what matters. its also usual that a male acts like he’s an expert, when he isn’t.

here are some links for those who are curious about european pastries filtered through an american experience in the southwest.

frankly there is little good about texas. but the small part that is good has a lot to do with the simple, hearth-like things such as this.

Rose Morkovsky Hauger and Ann Morkovsky Adams’s Kolache Recipe

Dorothy Bohac’s Kolache Recipe

Mrs. Jerabek’s Kolache Recipe

women’s voices like that are worth listening to. if there is any hope for a goddamned state like texas it comes from them.

assholes like donkeytale? not so much.

48. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

45 – well, I must say it’s hard to tell at first, because the article is all over the map. And as I said before, I think that’s strategic, so the author can bombard the readers with a series of scary little factoids without having to tie them all together in a coherent thesis.

But basically, the writer is pushing conservative ideas and, using the appeal to spurious authority, is trying to tear down the idea of women having autonomy over their own choices to have children.

See here:

To many, “lowest low” is hard evidence of imminent disaster of unprecedented proportions.

Well – :many”? Like – who??

“The ability to plan the decision to have a child is of course a big success for society, and for women in particular,” Letizia Mencarini, a professor of demography at the University of Turin, told me. “But if you would read the documents of demographers 20 years ago, you would see that nobody foresaw that the fertility rate would go so low. In the 1960s, the overall fertility rate in Italy was around two children per couple. Now it is about 1.3, and for some towns in Italy it is less than 1. This is considered pathological.”

For “some towns in Italy” – as it was for some towns in Scotland 25 years ago. And what does the “fertility” of a place really mean – does it mean the population actually conceiving children, or having children and lthen iving in a particular place for the foreseeable future? Because the author of the article seems confused here:

There is no shortage of popular explanations to account for the drop in fertility. In Athens, it’s common to blame the city’s infamous air pollution; several years ago a radio commercial promoted air-conditioners as a way to bring back Greek lust and Greek babies.

Oh wait a second – now we’re talking about possible environmental poisons, and at the same time, lack of lust because it was too hot at some point in recent Greek history? And of course this is all hearsay – “some say” etc.

And this load of poorlyu-written, politically-slanted shit got printed in the NY Times.

What a surprise.

More broadly and significant, social conservatives tie the low birthrate to secularism.

Aha, here we go….

After arguing for decades that the West had divorced itself from God and church and embraced a self-interested and ultimately self-destructive lifestyle, abetted above all by modern birth control, they feel statistically vindicated.

Pretty setup for the quote from Ill Papa:

“Europe is infected by a strange lack of desire for the future,” Pope Benedict proclaimed in 2006. “Children, our future, are perceived as a threat to the present.” In Germany, where the births-to-deaths ratio now results in an annual population loss of roughly 100,000, Ursula von der Leyen, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s family minister (and a mother of seven), declared two years ago that if her country didn’t reverse its plummeting birthrate, “We will have to turn out the light.”

Well, let us women who only have one or two children ritually flog ourselves, because we are helping “turn out the light” on the human race (at least, the educated white human race).

How evil are we!

Last March, André Rouvoet, the leader of the Christian Union Party in the Netherlands (and a father of five), urged the government to get proactive and spur Dutch women to have more babies.

Oh right, I’m really going to get agitated about what some Dutch “Christian Union” politician has to say about procreation.

The Canadian conservative Mark Steyn, author of the 2006 best seller “America Alone: The End of the World as We Know It,” has warned his fellow North Americans, whose birthrates are relatively high, that, regarding their European allies, “These countries are going out of business,” and that while at the end of the 21st century there may “still be a geographical area on the map marked as Italy or the Netherlands,” these will “merely be designations for real estate.”

“Best-seller” where?

Skipping ahead to the (presumably) big compelling conclusion, the article is singularly lame. Which do you believe more: the National Academy of Sciences, or the “Population Reference Bureau” – whatever that is – which is given the last word?

You tell me.

49. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

Oh sorry, MCat, I fucked up the tags. Too many quotes. Mea culpa. Let me flog myself a bit more….

50. lucid - 29 June 2008

Just got back from my brother’s wedding… I’ve had about enough jesusyness as I can handle for six months [so I’m loathing the upcoming election]… A few choice tidbits:

Sitting at the rehearsal – anglican wedding – looking through the program & I can’t believe that still today, it’s written into the ‘marirage’ that the woman has to be given away. No consent is required for the man, but someone other than the woman needs to consent for her. Fucking blows my mind.

Trouble in Christyland… Apparently a large segment of my sister in law’s relatives are such hardcore evangelicals, that not only did they object to my brother’s friend [with an angelic soprano voice – used to be a soloist with the prestigious St. Olaf’s choir when they were in school together] singing Ave Maria because it was, get this, too catholic, but they also objected to a eucharist at the wedding because it was being performed by an anglican minister [who happened to be my sister in law’s brother – and hence related to them in some way].

On the flip side, said anglican minister, who resides in Cairo with his very cool family, had several really long conversations with me about politics, particularly middle east politics, and he was on the level – even down to voting for McKinney. It is always interesting to realize that god or no god, people still can come to humanistic conclusions.

Then there were my cousins I hadn’t seen for almost 2 decades. This is the side of the family I wrote off after 9-11 because I was getting racist hatemail from them. I can only think they started to contact me with it because my dad forwarded an email to all of them shortly after that day in which I described my experience of the events, and obviously without comprehending what I had written, since they had my e-mail address, they decided I should join them in their Salem rituals. Of course, in his infinte wisdom, my brother saw fit to seat me with them for the reception dinner… Some abridged quotes: “I’ve been holed up in the hotel room because there are all of these people asking me for money and I don’t know their intent.” [it gets better…] “I got the wedding packet and it said to check out the Lexington Market & that it was totally safe during the day, but when I wandered down there, there were all of these blacks loitering about so I went back to the hotel.” [in a response to a query of when I saw one of them last] “Well you came into a bar with our cousin Paul and you were smoking cigarettes. And my whole life I’d been told what a sharp mind you had and that you were the smartest of the three kids and then I saw you smoking. I’ve held a grudge against you ever since and I’m still waiting for you to show how smart you are.”… To be honest, they were all polite and happy to see me, but, needless to say, wow.

Then of course there is the brother in law of my sister in law that is a mercenary for Dyncorp in Iraq who met my sister in law’s sister when they were in school together at Liberty U. Fortunately it didn’t come to blows.

Bizarro. I’m certainly happy for my brother, as he’s found someone he genuinely wants to spend his life with, and that has transformed him as a person – not to mention she is really cool as shit. But, gah, marriage crap, family crap… cannot deal with that.

At least because they are both in international aid work, it was a very international wedding including all sorts.

51. marisacat - 29 June 2008


don’t worry HRH, think I got it straightened out. It usually is all due to one or two unclosed blockquotes. If I got the italics wrong let me know. Took a guess…


52. marisacat - 29 June 2008

and then I saw you smoking

they will pray for your immortal soul lucid. LOL.

53. bayprairie - 29 June 2008

the obama campaign isn’t very wise to let Wesley out of the rubber room. if thats the donk campaign’s idea of a stalking horse, they need to revisit the stable, close and lock the barn door.

Clark hits McCain’s military credentials

was richard noriega busy? heehee

54. lucid - 29 June 2008

Mcat – everyone knows I’m going to hell. They should just cut their losses and give up. 🙂

55. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

47- Kolache Wars! Holy shit!! Who knew!!

I have a hard time with this one because I adore meat-filled pastries of all kinds – boreks, empanadas, Cornish pasties, Scotch pies, etc. When we lived in St Paul, we lived near a Russian restaurant which supplied us with beef-and-cheese piroshki. It was heaven. Who needs a hamburger.

So if someone wants to call some meat-filled pastry a kolache, well, I can’t get too bent out of shape. Then again, I’m npt Czech.

I do get annoyed when people insist (as they did in Minnesota) on putting sweet toppings – blueberry jam, etc. – on bagels. Bleah! Bagels are supposed to be savory, not sweet, goddammit!

And then there are bialys…

56. lucid - 29 June 2008

All these pastries – just reading about them is making me faint from my celiac! 😉

57. marisacat - 29 June 2008


I saw one report on that earlier. Wonder how much Obama ahd to do with it (I suppose Clark is a surrogate, but no idea). The Dems have carred out several attacks on his record, his crash, etc. I have zero idea if it works. I assume it is being done to send a message, or to alert agaisnt something they are expecting. Tho most Dems (Harkin, McGovern – twice – Jay Rockefeller – who apologised… and I think one other senator whose name slips right now) carried out their attacks before it was “presumptive” days.

Good luck. May they congeal.

58. bayprairie - 29 June 2008

ok 55

stop making me hungry, i just ate!

so much delicious food in the world, and so little time!!!!!

59. marisacat - 29 June 2008


the politico report says

acting as a surrogate for Barack Obama’s campaign,

60. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

51 – MCat, thank you!! You did a great job. Whatever flukes can be detected by the people who actually read the article all the way through 😀

61. bayprairie - 29 June 2008

my fav kolache is the poppy seed filling, followed by prune and then apricot.

i used to have a neighbor, dead a few years now im sad to say. she had a small kitchen in her backyard, a stand alone job. in the summer she’d can and pickle things from the garden. at thanksgiving and xmas she would bake kolaches and sell them by the dozen to earn extra money.

they were to die for.

62. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

50, lucid – well, that’s family weddings for ya.

Re; the Ave Maria: I was just talking today with a friend about how the Protestants basically eradicated Mary from their religion. One of their major mistakes, in my opinion, and I’m shocked that they’re continuing to push it.

63. wu ming - 29 June 2008

that’s the beauty of quaker wedding ceremonies, lucid: the couple just stands up and state their vows, sign a parchment, sit down, and then all the guests stand up and say what’s in their minds, or just sit in (interminable) silence until someone feels the urge to break it.

the symbolism’s all where it’d supposed to be. not even a “by the authority of the state of X, i pronounce you married” because, after all, quakers aren’t all that hot on states or authority in general, what with their history.

christian anarchists, really. as religious people go, they’re some of my favorites.

64. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

61, bay – I agree. The poppy seed filling rules. I hope that lady you knew wrote down her recipes and gave them to someone.

65. lucid - 29 June 2008

wu – went to a quaker college & despite transforming into an atheist during that time, I have nothing but respect for the quakers. It’s not about ‘god’ for them. It is about how people in the community are feeling about the community, hence ‘the colletction’. If I was a person who sought out that type of community, I would either be a quaker or a UU. But given me, I don’t enjoy that type of community. As the late great once said, I will not go, prefer a feast of friends to the giant family.

HRH – never understood the Mary eradication… maybe it stemmed from all of those medeival mystic nuns who strayed to far from the control of the vatican.

For me, I was raised in all of those churches. I understood the differences on an intellectual level & maybe that is why when I was a teenager I started to recognize that it was all bullshit.

66. Heather-Rose Ryan - 29 June 2008

63- wu ming – “christian anarchists”? – what does that really mean? Luther?

Quakers are no magic solution. The ones I’ve known are uptight, structure-oriented people. I’ve never yet met a relaxed Quaker.

If you want to be a mystic, be a mystic! You don’t need to herd a bunch of other people around you so you can all be mystics together, all at the same time.

67. marisacat - 30 June 2008

Why don’t they just not rebuild?

WORLD TRADE CENTER REBUILDING TO BE DELAYED PAST 2011, THE 10th ANNIVERSARY — WSJ A1 – ‘The rebuilding of the World Trade Center … won’t be completed until the middle of the next decade, and will cost as much as $3 billion more than planned … The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the 16-acre site in Lower Manhattan, is expected to release a report Monday detailing significant delays and cost overruns on construction there. The report won’t specify new completion dates or budget figures, but people familiar with the project say major components of it will be delayed one to three years and will cost $1 billion to $3 billion more than the current estimate of $15 billion.

LOL Give it up for Lent.

68. marisacat - 30 June 2008

related to 53, I have no idea how the slams on McC mil service “play”, but for what its worth, not that it matters, thsi is what First Read had to cough up this am:

*** Patriot Games, Part II: Speaking of the topic of Obama’s speech today, it seems American presidential politics can’t quite get beyond this question: Just how big of a military hero were you? Yesterday on CBS’s Face The Nation, it was Wes Clark questioning McCain’s military record. “I don’t think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president,” he said, as well as this: “[McCain] has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee. And he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn’t held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded — that wasn’t a wartime squadron.”

These comments weren’t helpful at all to the Obama campaign, as Team McCain used them — and made sure reporters were aware of them — by issuing this statement from retired Admiral Leighton “Snuffy” Smith: “If Barack Obama wants to question John McCain’s service to his country, he should have the guts to do it himself and not hide behind his campaign surrogates. If he expects the American people to believe his pledges about a new kind of politics, Barack Obama has a responsibility to condemn these attacks.” Clark, of course, was a Clinton surrogate during the primary season. What makes us think we won’t see Clark as an Obama surrogate again? Clark’s folks tell First Read that the general honors McCain’s service and would never disrespect it. However, they say that McCain is running for president “on his experience in national security, and Clark was talking about his qualifications in those terms.” It’s a tricky hit. On one hand, Clark was looking like he was doing a VP audition by proving he’s comfortable attack McCain. But did Clark go too far since now even Obama supporters will have to acknowledge McCain’s military service honorably?

But, as I said the Dems have leveled strong criticism at McCain mil service prior to the “presumptive” chapter we are now in… who knows.

69. NYCee - 30 June 2008


You seem to have gotten fixed on the hook. The author-farmer knows his animals, enjoys writing about them, and took a little creative license in using that particular “love affair” device to the tell a tale of affection – just affection – between dog and ram.

70. marisacat - 30 June 2008

hmm this is pretty much what happened to John Morgan at PA Progressive a couple of months ago (he since moved to soapblox).

All you can do is laugh. And keep moving away from The Reformer. And his Reformation.

71. marisacat - 30 June 2008

Oh so amusing, Jerry McNerney on KGO talk radio, taking calls, as he sells the Universal Health care we will NEVER SEE, he also undercuts it. Good job Jer.

LOL Now getting calls saying congress should cancel summer vaca. Oh No Jerry says, I come home to my district and “I work hard every day”.

Weep for Jerry, he is overworked.

He “couldn’t tell if the oil CEOs lied to congress”. How dumb they become after the American people hire them.

72. marisacat - 30 June 2008

Jerry McN (now on to Iran) is down to stuttering.

What more need be said. Or s-s-s-s-s-aid-d-d-d-.

73. Arcturus - 30 June 2008

hope they keep teh Great Anti-War Candidate on the hook & let him twist ‘n squirm

74. marisacat - 30 June 2008

well like Franklin Graham, he has a son there. Befuddled, his mind is weak with patriotism and whatever else. Jingoism

LOL KGO/Ron Owens is on to abortion now. Specifically on what the 8th circuit found on, all of this silly warnings to wimmens before they make up their tiny weak minds.. After conulsting with pastor, father, husband and older brother of course, as obamarama thinks is needed.

75. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

Hi all!

Back from my week off, tuning out the nuuz and enjoying the company of friends. I spent yesterday in Chicago drinking Kona coffee courtesy of some nice folks w/ a very nice shop while we watched Chicago’s Gay Pride parade. For all of the doom and gloom I in the world today, it was wonderful to be part of such a diverse crowd, so good natured and friendly, with families very much in evidence and the general feeling of how ACCEPTABLE the whole thing felt. Pols & church groups & the County Sheriff and cops on their floats, the leather boys and bears and butch bikers and salsa dancers and southside drill teams & Code Pink & atheist activists and so many others all mixed together. It was a grand mixture of family entertainment and “counter” culture.

Nice end to a week off. Back to the grind tomorrow!

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

In keeping w/ our screening of Bullitt again this past week, here’s a mashup of the car chase with a map of GPS tracking of the route taken through SF.

77. marisacat - 30 June 2008


Gay Pride Parade here is usually led by Dykes on Bikes. This year by Brides on Bikes…

… 😉 …

78. Arcturus - 30 June 2008

I saw a regiment of soldiers shuffling and stumbling,
Holding each other’s hands for guidance,
Falling into ditches, falling on the plain road,
Under orders to garrison the empty city.
The furious light of what killed the city had killed their eyes
At three hundred miles’ distance. Oh faithful ones
Do you still make war?

–Robinson Jeffers

79. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

# 29 – I remember when Clapton and Bowie spoke well of the National Front back in the day. There is a reason why fascism is a theme returned to over and by writers from the UK (including more recently Alan Moore in V for Vendetta). There were plenty in England who were fine w/ Hitler at first.

80. NYCee - 30 June 2008

Re Clark on McCain:

I just found it refreshing to hear someONE say that getting your plane shot down doesnt automatically bestow unquestionable Commander in Chief credentials upon you.

81. marisacat - 30 June 2008


same here, under many guises… LOL.

I would say the Church/War Party meld is the latest, and with great potential. Nobody shakes a fucked finger like evangels, white black or other.

82. marisacat - 30 June 2008


i agree. one reason I did not vote for Kerry. I shoudl vote for all that war glory-making, both backwards and forwards? And make no mistake, they shilled Vietnam War Glory, hoping to bamboozle the vote.

HOWEVER, going after McC war record may turn out to be dumb politics.

LOL I say go for it. And as I pointed out above this is about the 6th Dem foray int hat direction. Harkin, McGovern, and Rockefeller, among others. And IIRC, both harkin and McG went at it twice. I assume their either think or think they know this is good politics. Whatever.

Good luck. May they all congeal (which they have done already)

83. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

One of the funny things about the parade was the big Out for Obama contingent. I looked over at my friend (who’s an Obama supporter – we’ve agreed to disagree) and said a little loudly “they do realize he’s against gay marriage, don’t they?”

Received some funny dirty looks from surrounding folks for my trouble.

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

If you want more Hersch, he was on Fresh Air today.

85. marisacat - 30 June 2008

Don’t be speakin’ agaisnt Great Black Daddy. The Kirbyjon Campbells, TD Jakes, etc., of th world will hunt you down and make you listen to religioius slobber. As they waterboard you and thump their bibles with their pricks.

Oh yeah there is going to be so much room for Gays and their issues in the administration.

Might as well laugh. The evangels Obama meets with, black and white, prattle bullshite about poverty and medical care and climate warming. but their issues were and are womens’ sexuality and gays, marriage, rights and whatever else.

So, good luck to special interest voters. Who go for Obama.

AFAIAC, he si scared to meet with gays. Same as John Edwards. They send their wives.

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008


Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Monday, in a major speech on patriotism, criticized MoveOn.org for referring to Gen. David Petraeus as General Betray Us last year.

The Illinois senator said politics too often seems “trapped in old, threadbare arguments” that he called “caricatures of left and right.”

This, Obama added, was “most evident during our recent debates about the war in Iraq, when those who opposed administration policy were tagged by some as unpatriotic, and a general providing his best counsel on how to move forward in Iraq was accused of betrayal.”

Obama did not vote last year when the Senate approved a measure condemning the controversial Petraeus ad.

The Democrat argued that “given the enormous challenges that lie before us, we can no longer afford these sorts of divisions.”

Thank you Saint, can we have another!!!!!

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

The Sainted One has announced that he opposes amending the CA constitution:

Dear Friends,

Thank you for the opportunity to welcome everyone to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club’s Pridc Breakfast and to congratulate you on continuing a legacy of success, stretching back thirty-six years. As one of the oldest and most influential LGBT organizations in the country, you have continually rallied to support Democratic candidates and causes, and have fought tirelessly to secure equal rights and opportunities for LGBT Americans in California and throughout the country.

As the Democratic nominee for President, I am proud to join with and support the LGBT community in an effort to set our nation on a course that recognizes LGBT Americans with full equality under the law. That is why I support extending fully equal rights and benefits to same sex couples under both state and federal law. That is why I support repealing the Defense of Marriage Act and the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy, and the passage of laws to protect LGBT Americans from hate crimes and employment discrimination. And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states.

For too long. issues of LGBT rights have been exploited by those seeking to divide us. It’s time to move beyond polarization and live up to our founding promise of equality by treating all our citizens with dignity and respect. This is no less than a core issue about who we are as Democrats and as Americans.

Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks. My thanks again to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club for allowing me to be a part of today’s celebration. I look forward to working with you in the coming months and years, and I wish you all continued success.



88. marisacat - 30 June 2008

speech after letter after speech all he does is promise big squishy chocolate cakes with chocolate chips and marshmallows. Baby kittens dusted with powdered sugar on the side.


I am pretty sure not, as this is pure economics… further he has stated it should be left to the states. He’s not going to take on MS, AL, TN, KY, GA, FL … etc. The roster of Southern, Battleground and Slave Holding Slave Voting states.

What gays willg et is a chance to die, just as disliked as ever, in our wars. A wiggling of DADT. IMO.

After he signed off on that he called up TD Jakes, Kibyjon, Kmeic, Wallis and the regular prayer wheel Friday prayer conf call and they whacked off to Isaiah ooops, scartch that, they talked about what really matters, how Obama will be A Great Spiritual Leader..

89. Arcturus - 30 June 2008

For too long. issues of LGBT rights have been exploited by those seeking to divide us. It’s time to move beyond polarization and live up to our founding promise of equality

he’d better ask Barney Frank what the “T” stands for . . .

90. marisacat - 30 June 2008

LOL ain’t no “T” in ENDA. None.

91. marisacat - 30 June 2008

The fence around the public demonstration zone outside the Democratic National Convention will be chicken wire or chain link, authorities revealed in U.S. District Court today.

That may allow protestors to be seen and heard by delegates going in and out of the Pepsi Center during the convention.

92. Arcturus - 30 June 2008

talk abot tripping over one’s tongue – BF was pathetic doing interviews afterward

93. marisacat - 30 June 2008

Poor Barney. Poor Barack. They so want to belong. Somewhere, to someone. Appeasers. Greasers.

94. lucid - 30 June 2008

That may allow protestors to be seen and heard by delegates going in and out of the Pepsi Center during the convention.

We can’t have that now, can we…

95. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

Gore Vidal interview in the Tehran Times:

‘The United States is not a republic anymore’, says Gore Vidal

Press TV: How can it just be one person among so many hundreds of Congressmen who wants the impeachment of George W. Bush in these circumstances?

Gore Vidal: Well it’s because we no longer have a country. We don’t have a republic any more. During the last 7 or 8 years of the Bush regime, they’ve got rid of the Bill of Rights, they’ve got rid of habeas corpus. They have got rid of one of the nicest gifts that England ever left us when they went away and we ceased to be colonies — the Magna Carta — from the 12th century. All of our law and due process of law is based on that. And the Bush people got rid of it. The president and little Mr. Gonzales who for a few minutes was his Attorney General. They managed to get rid of all of the constitutional links that made us literally a republic.

Press TV: You have often written about the United States’ superpower status in terms of the history of previous superpowers. Do you think we’re witnessing the end of U.S. power as some suggest. Will the White House be seen like Persepolis?

Gore Vidal: Well it won’t make such good ruins, no. It’ll be more like the tomb of Cyrus nearby. They managed to destroy the United States — why? Because they’re oil and gas people and they’re essentially criminals. I repeat that this is a criminal group that’s seized control of the country through what looked like an ordinary election.

96. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008
97. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

When called to slow down by the victim, the FEMA employee said “I don’t have to slow down, I’m with FEMA!”

FEMA housing inspector Vincent Koley, 74, was charged with assault with a dangerous weapon after the 11:30 a.m. incident, the Cedar Rapids Police Department reported.

Koley stopped the car and jumped out, police said. Tom Kramer told him to slow down and that he was in the cross walk. Koley replied that “he didn’t have to slow down, he was with FEMA,” police said. The two argued for a minute, and when Kramer turned to walk away, Koley took a golf club out of his car and struck Kramer across the arm, breaking the golf club.

Koley got back into his car, but numerous Penford employees observed the incident and surrounded the car so Koley couldn’t leave, police said. Koley then began to nudge his car forward, forcing Kramer, who was in front of the car, onto the car’s hood.

98. marisacat - 30 June 2008

Sounds like a Bible salesman.

99. aemd - 30 June 2008


LOL. Oops, Sweet Baby Jebus, forgive me..I meant Amen.

When will people in the US figure out that no one is driving the car.

What the fuck, it needs to be said… Go Local..NOW.

100. marisacat - 30 June 2008

yadda yadda dadda (from Independence MO, about half way down the transcript):

[A]s I got older, that gut instinct that so many of us have, that America is the greatest country on Earth, would survive — that gut instinct, that knowledge would survive my growing awareness of our nation’s imperfections, it’s ongoing racial strife, the perversions of our political system that were laid bare during the Watergate hearings, the wrenching poverty of the Mississippi Delta and the hills of Appalachia and inner cities and rural communities all across America. That instinct that this is the greatest country on Earth survived not only because in my mind the joys of American life and culture, its vitality, its variety, its freedom, always outweighed its imperfections, but because I learned that what make’s America’s great has never been its perfection, but the belief that it can be made better.

I came to understand that our revolution was waged for the sake of that belief, that we could be governed by laws, not men, that we could be equal in the eyes of those laws. That we could be free to say what we want and assemble with whomever we want and worship as we please. That we could have the right to pursue our individual dreams, but the obligation to help our fellow citizens pursue theirs. ::snip::

101. marisacat - 30 June 2008


make that ‘endless Amen’.

Don’t wanna be caught cutting out…

…. 8) …

102. aemd - 30 June 2008

I think ya meant…Deep Breathe…***Teh Eternal Amen***..git with the code words..

(fucking amateur) 😎

103. marisacat - 30 June 2008

1400 fires. Almost all in Northern California… I was despairing last night and even this am, the air was so wretched, but it has improved in SF, enough …

104. marisacat - 30 June 2008


oh too funny…………………….. Just as I was noting there is a bit, a tiny bit of air around here….

105. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 June 2008

Kunstler being his usually cheery self:

What’s happening is that American society is sliding into a greater depression than the one Grandma lived through. On the technical side, there has been unending controversy as to whether we’re gripped by inflation or deflation. It’s certainly deceptive. Food and gasoline prices are rising faster than the rivers of Iowa. But the prices of assets, like houses, stocks, jet-skis, GMC Yukons and pre-owned Hummel figurines are cratering as America turns into Yard Sale Nation.

106. mattes - 30 June 2008

The latest:

Israelis murdering Palestinians continues unabated & assaulting award winning journalists:


107. marisacat - 30 June 2008

I noticed the story this morning on eIntifada about the journalist… Bad years, these, for journalists.

108. aemd - 30 June 2008

Kunstler is a bit canned peas, bottled water and AK47 for me but he does pick up trends. IMO, it’s gonna get ugly but not quite as bad as his, big dicked, misogynist, Eden.

109. marisacat - 30 June 2008

new post…………….. 😉


……….. 8) …

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