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Church planting 2 July 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Israel/AIPAC, WAR!.


From the faith based speech in Zanesville (CNN joined late, there were only three questions from media, so stuck with “as prepared“)

And my Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships will also have a broader role – it will help set our national agenda. Because if we are going to do something about the injustice of millions of children living in extreme poverty, we need interfaith coalitions like the Let Justice Roll campaign standing up for the powerless. If we’re going to end genocide and stop the scourge of HIV/AIDS, we need people of faith on Capitol Hill talking about how these challenges don’t just represent a security crisis or a humanitarian crisis, but a moral crisis as well.

Crock upon crock. A pile of crocks.

We rely too much on conferences in Washington, instead of getting technical assistance to the people who need it on the ground. What this means is that what’s stopping many faith-based groups from helping struggling families is simply a lack of knowledge about how the system works.

Well, that will change when I’m President. I will empower the nonprofit religious and community groups that do understand how this process works to train the thousands of groups that don’t. We’ll “train the trainers” by giving larger faith-based partners like Catholic Charities and Lutheran Services and secular nonprofits like Public/Private Ventures the support they need to help other groups build and run effective programs. Every house of worship that wants to run an effective program and that’s willing to abide by our constitution – from the largest mega-churches and synagogues to the smallest store-front churches and mosques – can and will have access to the information and support they need to run that program.

Got an idea how MASSIVE are the plans from the zealous missionary from the Land of Lincoln?

I happened tonight on the first and second parts of a series in the UK Telegraph on [the current version of] flailing and failing America, using as contrast rising China. Their grafs on small town/rural America (heavily targetted by mil recruiters obviously) had this snip on the churches found there:

In Bradshaw, West Virginia – windblown and desolate – the Ten Commandments were posted in a square opposite the town hall, but even the pawn-shop had closed down.

In West Logan I stopped at a Baptist church for morning service. I was welcomed with open arms. A choir of 12 sang old-time hymns, and the pastor asked the congregation to pray for the nation of Israel and ‘our troops serving in Iraq and Iran [sic]’, and that those two countries should ‘see God’ – ‘Lord, you died for the whole world, not just America. Amen’.

Two members of the congregation had died in Iraq. As I was leaving, a woman pressed a copy of a book into my hand, The Faith of the American Soldier, and over lunch I read the inspirational tale of Russell Rippetoe, a captain in the army Ranger Regiment, who had taken part in the invasion of Iraq in 2003, wearing a ‘Shield of Strength’ – a metal dog-tag with, on one side, an American flag with the words ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and on the other a quotation from Joshua 1:9 – ‘I will be strong and courageous, I will not be terrified or discouraged; for the Lord my God is with me wherever I go’. Rippetoe was killed by a car bomb, and was the first serviceman in the Iraq war to be given a hero’s burial at the Arlington National Cemetery. His effects are now on display in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington – his Bible, a crucifix ‘and a small piece of metal that was scorched in the explosion that took the man’s life. It is the Shield of Strength, the words of Joshua 1:9 still clear.’

Money offered as city, state or federal grants, either to church outreach or to various sorts of non-profits, is not new, I realise this…. Food, clothing, a bed or help with rent or utilities comes from a variety of sources, for people under siege. Nothing new.

But NOW, instead of applying for monies, they, the clergy, are officially, in a big, new, expanded, official way, part of public policy.

In one example of how he would use the approach to carry out a policy goal, Mr. Obama proposed $500 million per year to provide summer education for one million poor children, with a goal of closing the achievement gaps between wealthy students and poorer ones. The campaign did not provide a cost proposal for the full program, but said the educational piece could be financed by reducing the growth in the federal travel budget and streamlining the management of surplus government property. [NYT]

A few years ago both Haley Barbour (R-MS) and Bredesen (a Democrat in TN) slashed their state versions of Medic-aid. By roughly similar amounts. Hitting all sorts of people hard. Esp of course, the poorest with the least access. An old friend of mine in TN said that for a few weeks the churches in some parts of TN talked of a “ringing of the bells” a tolling for those thrown off a necessary, life and death support. After a while they decided not to. My guess, a lack of interest on the part of the churches — and, of course, political pressure. With more money, more involvement, even less independence.

I had popped this at the end of the last thread…. for laughs.

chuckle chuckle… BTD says if Obama really means it about faith based expansion and support for exceptions in hiring and firing (AP and NYT both seem confused … I would not esp trust BTD legal services on this, without reading more, LOL) he will not vote for him: “I abstain”, he says.

chuckle chuckle

If I can find another legal take [than beloved BTD] on the confusion about hiring and firing practices between the AP of yesterday and the NYT report, will post it.

We know that faith and values can be a source of strength in our own lives. That’s what it’s been to me. And that’s what it is to so many Americans. But it can also be something more. It can be the foundation of a new project of American renewal. And that’s the kind of effort I intend to lead as President of the United States.

I caught a stray comment from that insane person, Jim Cramer, on Monday. On why Wall St is investing in Obama. Start laughing now: ”they want spending cut”. He did not need to add, that means Entitlements. It does not mean War! nor MIC nor any number of other sink holes. Using Gawd, Obama is privatising (read: off loading) a good chunk of government spending. That’s my guess.

I was sick to death of his dragging his religion along before his religious affiliations became high profile. I find the whole thing — his wearing his religion and shoving it at me – and this fucked partnership with the clergy — messy; it smells of a Trojan Horse passing thru town. And massively shitting.



1. marisacat - 2 July 2008

hmmm reading the thread at TL/BTD I see “squeaky” added a couple of comments on the already existing version of hiring/friing exception clauses for churches

2. CSTAR - 2 July 2008

I agree entirely (if you’ll excuse my repeating you, it’s importance merits repetition, drilling in, whatever)Money offered as city, state or federal grants, either to church outreach or to various sorts of non-profits, is not new, I realise this…. Food, clothing, a bed or help with rent or utilities comes from a variety of sources, for people under siege. Nothing new.what is new the clergy, are officially, in a big, new, expanded, official way, part of public policy.

When O says the problems are too big for government, what he really means is that the social programs based on entitlements (primarily medicaid) are too expensive. He is hinting at a way of restructuring the health service obligations implicit in the entitlements, imperceptibly turning them over, to religious service organizations i.e., religious charities. What interest do religious service organizations have in playing along? Well the profit motives may vary slightly from church to church, but they all want growth e.g,. converts.

So the ownership society now takes on a new twist.

3. marisacat - 2 July 2008

hmm Sully calls him “Christianist in Chief”.

4. NYCO - 2 July 2008

Can someone explain what the Sam Hill is going on in Mongolia?

I thought this was a fairly stable country, no?

5. marisacat - 2 July 2008

Some snips from the LAT piece on this bullshit:

People For the American Way greeted with alarm Obama’s proposal to send federal money to churches, saying it is a “bad idea” and a “tricky business.” “It would create both a constitutional problem and logistical mess,” the president, Kathryn Kolbert, said, “pitting oversight and accountability for public funds against the autonomy of churches, synagogues and mosques.”

“tricky business” ? LOL I call it a massive TRICK.

One new pro-Obama group, the Matthew 25 Network, run by several Democratic strategists who have pushed the party to court religious voters, began airing an ad Tuesday on Christian radio stations, playing a clip in which Obama recalls becoming a Christian.

“Kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt that I heard God’s spirit beckoning me,” Obama says in the ad. “I submitted myself to his will, and dedicated myself to discovering his truth.”

– and I am rolling my eyes. Elmer Gantry.

Obama advisors said he would more rigorously oversee the program than Bush, whose administration has been criticized for failing to strictly monitor how religious groups have spent government money.

Obama pledged to maintain the 11 federal agency offices that distribute faith-based grants but to encourage close coordination with state and local governments that also have opened faith-based offices.

… But Robert Wineburg, a University of North Carolina-Greensboro professor who has written books on the initiative, said he worried about sending more money to small, grass-roots charities.

Amy had Wallis on.. who of course advises anyone with cash … LOL… will see if the transcript is up…

6. NYCO - 2 July 2008

From NYT story on disgruntled Obama supporters:

Thousands of them are now using the same grass-roots organizing tools previously mastered by the Obama campaign to organize a protest against his decision.

Wonder how long it will take them to realize their weapons were useless all along?

7. marisacat - 2 July 2008

Sorry I missed meltdown in Mongolia.. will look around… 😉

Aside from that some wag in a thread said to kill this bullshit start talking up that mosques and madrassas will get funding.

That should do it…

8. marisacat - 2 July 2008


if they vote for him they empower him. Simple as that. He could give a flying hoo hoo about their disagreements, their issues, etc. After all he is Jesus sent to earth.

9. marisacat - 2 July 2008

so tired of these orgs that form, with the predictable political name riding, in this case Elz Edwards. With the predictable everything. Out of which comes……………… NOTHING.

Any org worth anything should run from crap like this.

10. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

throws into stark relief their slogan

change you can BELIEVE in

11. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

someone at TL linked to this long 2005 article – I’ve only read the 1st half – that has this bit of history, showing once again the bi-partisan symbiosis, one admin laying the rails for the next:

Both friend and foe acknowledge that what started as a relatively obscure section of the 1996 welfare bill, introduced by freshman Senator John Ashcroft, has become an important part of contemporary political life and debate. Wendy Kaminer grudgingly acknowledges that “Ashcroft’s remarkably successful initiative is creating unprecedented financial partnerships between church and state.”
. . .
To protect religious organizations’ autonomy, the legislation specifically stated that an FBO receiving federal funding through the welfare bill retains “control over the definition, development, practice, and expression of its religious beliefs”; need not “alter its form of internal governance” or “remove religious art, icons, scripture or other symbols”; and retains the hiring safeguard specified in the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which outlines the right of religious organizations to choose to hire only employees who share the organization’s religious beliefs.
. . .
In the early 1990s, Carl Esbeck, a professor at the University of Missouri Law School, concerned about the secularizing effects of government funding, agreed to write a paper on how religious organizations are regulated when they receive government funds. When he presented his paper at a conference in February 1995, Esbeck decided to enliven his lecture by offering draft legislation to correct problems he had discovered. Soon after the conference, Esbeck sent his paper and draft legislation to a recent graduate, Annie Billings, who, just weeks before, had joined the staff of freshman Republican Senator John Ashcroft, an Assemblies of God layman from Missouri. As governor, Ashcroft had noted that FBOs seemed to do a better job than secular agencies in delivering welfare services, so, in the spring of 1995, as he was working on the welfare bill, Ashcroft asked his staff how the new bill might encourage more FBOs to provide welfare services. When Billings shared Esbeck’s draft legislation, Ashcroft decided to try to incorporate it into the welfare legislation, eventually persuading Senate Majority Leader Dole to include it in the Senate bill. When the bill went to the House-Senate Conference Committee in the fall of 1995, Billings had to work hard to persuade Republican members of the House, but they eventually accepted the charitable choice provision. Clinton, however, vetoed the entire bill at Christmas-and a similar bill in the spring of ’96. Then, in the summer of ’96, Congress again passed the welfare bill with charitable choice provisions; this time Clinton signed it into law.

Perhaps the most amazing thing, in retrospect, is that the charitable choice provisions faced as little opposition as they did in ’95 and ’96. A substantial coalition of liberal civil rights groups (including the ACLU and Americans United) did object,” urging that charitable choice violates the First Amendment’s requirement of the separation of church and state, but the attention of the Congress and the country was elsewhere, on the dramatic changes in welfare policy itself. Charitable choice, Annie Billings told me, was “under the radar screen most of the time.” One Senator did move to strike the charitable choice provisions from the proposed legislation in the summer of ’96 but, after just a few minutes of debate, the Senate voted 67-32 to retain charitable choice. Many Democrats, including liberal Senator Wellstone, voted to keep the charitable choice provisions in the welfare bill. A law professor, his young student, and a freshman senator succeeded in passing legislation that, just five years later, would seem far more important and become very controversial. link to 1st pg of “EVALUATING THE FAITH-BASED INITIATIVE: Is Charitable Choice Good Public Policy?”, quotes from pp. 1-3

12. marisacat - 2 July 2008

I thought the slogan always stank. Believe, belief, believe in me, etc. And he always pushed his religion. Always.

Confused statements, always. Some writers use (and why not) statements from his camp in 2006 stating he has alwys been a christian, was raised one and his MOTHER was a christian (this was used during the apostate arguments following the NYT Luttwak article). When, in his book, he claims she was an isolated person due to her lack of faith.

Words, they spout as needed.

Thanks for the clip from the link squeaky proved. I had nto gotten to it yet.

13. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

from one of La Generacion del 27, for Arthur Silber & James Benjamin (from yesterday’s post), writing in the 60’s out of his experiences decades earlier:

The Eyes’ deceit

How nobly they throng together
clamoring for justice, those young men
raising high their voices, inciting and
disturbing, so innocent their faces,
proud their steps and bearing,
their eyes seeking a superb,
a shining future, but right now
within their view, on the asphalt
of streets rocked by the calculated
clamor of the adolescent mob,
chorus of throats and arms,
naively faithful and docile
–candorous avalanche–at the bidding of
their elders, superiors in
cruelty and machinations, still
jailers of a prison that encircles
all, without escape to any future:
not even one they long for,
those who, splendid in their youth,
parade at last before the tyrant.

–“El engaño a los ojos,” from Clamor (1957-63), trans by Julian Palley in Affirmation: A Bilingual Anthology 1916-1966 by JJorge Guillén [U of Oklahoma, 1968]

14. marisacat - 2 July 2008

thanks for that, A…

I dropped JB an email late that night (everything a bit of blur right now, two nights ago?)… such a good post he pulled together as reply. Dropped him some sub threads from PFF and added some links to earlier writings from some of Silber’s loudest and dumbest accusers.

15. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

before I get my butt in gear here – the rest of that FBO article gave me a headache – it’s a pro argument that proceeds w/ an equal op frame that envisions a ‘plurality’ of religio-philosophical views in the public/politico square, and rests on the assumption that “allegedly secular but in fact deeply religious Enlightenment deists and philosophical naturalists” need to be countered through the ‘non-discrimination’ of religious groups – an easy strawman, as if Catholics never worked at Planned Parenthood – & totally ignores the separation concerns – pffleccha, what a nasty aftertaste!

16. marisacat - 2 July 2008

I don’t think the Democrats have ever reached out to, worked with the association of clergy who support choice. Really support it. They certainly did nto champion the religious groups who marched for choice in DC in 2004 (possibly the biggest march ever, at 1.2 m)

Again, a Trojan Horse massively shitting as it goes thru town. Frankly,. as specifics roll out on this, who can believe the blither, and the whole issue of exclusions for church hiring (old new and imbetween) seems purposefully shrouded in confusion by the ObamaMites… so really I think it is money to the power groups carrying a cross. And buying smaller churches and store front whatevers. I assume pay outs will heavily lean to evanglical, fundie and Catholic, of the most conservative.

… he is a BORN AGAIN. All that bullshit about coming to Jesus.

Screw him.

17. ms_xeno - 2 July 2008

Because hrh and a certain somebody else wanted to know. (Marinade recipes).

18. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

L-friggin’ O-L!!! James drawas on the hairless wonder to explain why he’s not voting – I will say that given how low voter turn-out is, I don’t see not voting as a personal option – they’ve already shown they could care less about people sitting home & are all too happy to claim their ‘mandates’ – which leaves me once again, clapping for Peter Pan, wishing for that Never-Never-Land of a qualifying % for the Greens, despite ALL their many faults

16. I’m gathering the hiring stuff has been a hide-‘n seek balancing act all along – Bush again was so in-yr-face, that any pull-back gets trumpted as Victory – think Planned Parenthood & Food Not Bombs are invited to the meetings? – in line for Federal funding??? (the Quakers protesting at SOA or whatever the hell it’s called now?

you can stop laughing now

Plurality my ass!

19. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

oops, screwed up the James B link

20. marisacat - 2 July 2008


Planned Parenthood got slashed of funds for subsidised (from curve based to free) birth control aimed at college clinics – this was in the recent big bucks WarGasm money.


21. marisacat - 2 July 2008

drawas on the hairless wonder to explain why he’s not voting

LOL I will go read. Glad to see my good works bore fruit… 😉

The only thing I will add is that they work to contain the vote. HAVA monies distributed to both parties, were used to reinforce “likely” voters. Groups that work (in CA, at least) to expand the vote, to engage minortiies, etc, were shafted. Absolutely cut out. My understanding t he def of “likely” is you voted the last time around. At the GE level. They want a highly predictable electorate.

But when identified slices of the vote stay home or swing, they noticed. 1994 for one. I also read, several times without running it down, that “the black vote” was noticeably weak in 2002.

The Democrats don’t ever say much about ’94 in public, but I gather it was looked at, exhaustively. Probably hoilding sponges up agaisnt their bodies, as they bled out.

22. marisacat - 2 July 2008

oh very clever post from James… 😉

Reminds me that ’emptywh**l’ had made a rather revealing comment at LSF of her thought processes as she progressed as a fairly highly placed Ann Arbor Mi volunteer in the Kerry camp. She began to wonder if the Dems had a real candidate, at all. One actually running to win, rather than place.

Oh I used that over and over and over. DHinMI’s great friend.

23. ms_xeno - 2 July 2008


…wishing for that Never-Never-Land of a qualifying % for the Greens, despite ALL their many faults…

Well, you know how I hate to drink alone, Arcturus. 😉

24. marisacat - 2 July 2008

hmmm saw this at Sully (who agrees), its from Wired:

[T]his Sunday’s Times of London quotes Obama national security advsier and former Navy Secretary Richard Danzig as saying: “My personal position is Gates is a very good secretary of defense and would be an even better one in an Obama administration.”

That’s quite a statement, from Danzig, a man who could himself “become the next secretary of defense,” as NPR recently noted. So I asked him whether the quote was accurate, or had been taken out of context. Nope, Danzig replied. In fact, he had made it about ten days earlier, to the L.A. Times. And he hadn’t changed his mind since.::snip::

Wired goes on to say that Gates has said Jan 09 is the end for him, but then the article’s author muses that OHbama ia very persuasive guy.


25. marisacat - 2 July 2008


thanks for the marinades… nothing tastes good lately…

26. mattes - 2 July 2008

You can bet this won’t be getting too much press, entitlements cut, Israel gets a raise:

Congress Delivers Promised Israel Aid Bump Despite Budget Deadlock
Move Bypasses Normal Appropriation Process

Washington – While almost all federally financed programs were denied any funding increase for the coming year, aid to Israel from the United States will increase thanks to a legislative loophole and some deft maneuvering by pro-Israel lobbyists.

Congress bypassed the normal appropriation process on June 26 when it approved a $170 million raise in military aid to Israel, as part of a larger supplemental spending bill. The increase contrasts with the standstill in budgeting for almost all other government programs. Due to fighting between Democrats and Republicans over the federal budget, most government spending will be held in what is known as a “continuous resolution,” which maintains all spending at the same level as in the previous fiscal year and allows no raise in government spending.

Aid to Israel would normally be covered by this resolution, but legislators made the aid into an amendment to special legislation covering funding for the military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. According to an official in the Washington pro-Israel community, the only other instance in which aid to Israel went through this channel was after the first Gulf War, 16 years ago.

The move was quickly applauded by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.


27. ms_xeno - 2 July 2008

Mcat, #25:

…nothing tastes good lately…

Well, small wonder. Between the heat and the constant frenzies of party worship, what can you expect ?

A neighbor who we do favors for sometimes just gave us a huge container of baby & red lettuces. I have icicle radishes and a vinegar dressing in the works for them tonight. To go with some grilled turkey sandwiches. Oh, and lemon wafers, despite the heat. Yeah, I’m insane. 😮

28. marisacat - 2 July 2008

Jonathan Turley takes a look at the SC. And makes the classic observation, when the rulings are not 5/4 but 7/2 or 6/3 it is because the so called liberals have joined the so called conservatives.

And reminds us that Roberts is 52. Alito not much more, Thomas is just 60 and Scalia is 72,


29. marisacat - 2 July 2008


thanks mattes. sigh

ms x

yeah the fires are too much. The worst one at Big Sur, is still only 3% contained and they said it will burn til the end of the month. A friend is talking of driving somewhere to get out of the smoke… but where to go? Go North, drive thru the very worst of it, we’d be much closer to fire than either of us is now…. Drive East/SE to NV? No real point going S, they have far fewer fires but it can get worse at any moment.

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008

Peace Action WI Peace activists stop the virtual killing at music festival

Peace Action-Wisconsin launched a campaign Tuesday to shut down the “game,” and Veterans for Peace, Wisconsin Network for Peace and Justice also joined in asking their members to call Summerfest to complain.

Summerfest officials reported “a handful” of complaints, but it took less than 12 hours to get action, suggesting there was more than a handful of callers, which forced Summerfest to take it seriously.

The game was a virtual reality rig hooked up to a machine gun mounted on the back of a humvee, w/ players shooting life-sized people on the video screen.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008

BAR – Cynthia McKinney Deserves Your Support, Obama Does Not

Both Black and white progressives deliberately made themselves irrelevant to the Democratic campaign by failing to challenge Obama before and during the primary season. Now there is one remaining chance to put a healthy fear into Obama and to help build a Black-led movement that will fight for progressive values after the election is over: solidarity with Cynthia McKinney.

Surely no one with a brain any longer believes that Obama is a closet progressive, or even a genuine liberal. Last month he finally confessed that Black Agenda Report has been right about him all the time: he’s Hillary Clinton’s political clone “If you look at my positions and Senator Clinton’s, there’s not a lot of difference, which is why it’s so easy for advisers, senior advisers of Senator Clinton, to support my candidacy,” said Obama, unveiling his roster of national security advisors.

And what a “Back to the Future” crew of Bill Clinton and Bush #1 retrograde hacks he has chosen! Obama’s core group of foreign policy gurus is non-change personified – U.S. imperialism from the pre-Bush #2 era in the flesh. (See “Background of Obama’s Foreign Policy Group,” Institute for Public Accuracy.) Endless war is written on their faces. Progressives should have taken Obama seriously when he announced to everyone who would listen, back in March, “The truth is that my foreign policy is actually a return to the traditional, bipartisan, realistic foreign policy of George Bush’s father, John F. Kennedy, of in some ways Ronald Reagan.”

Obama had the gall to praise Reagan and the elder Bush while on a “Stand for Change” bus tour.

Cynthia McKinney offers real change – peace for a change.

“The United States should and must engage the world, but not in empire, not in military,” said McKinney, who was first elected to the U.S. Congress from a suburban Atlanta district in 1992. “Ninety percent of the US security budget is dedicated to some military engagement with the world. The United States should stop arming factions, supporting factions, new elections should be held [in Iraq] with international advisors, and the “coalition of the willing” should work with the United Nations to disarm and restore to the extent possible the Iraqi civil sector. The Reconstruction Draft Manifesto calls for an end to US militarism and the establishment of a Department of Peace by restructuring the US State Department.”

32. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008

New BAR in moderation, I think.

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008


But Obama’s not far behind, playing to the same emotions with a smoother, subtler song. His recent speech honoring the Vaterland featured not only the predictable soft-focus images, but also the requisite “stabbed-in-the-back” refrain concerning the Vietnam era:

“[S]ome of those in the so-called counter-culture of the Sixties reacted not merely by criticizing particular government policies, but by attacking the symbols, and in extreme cases, the very idea, of America itself – by burning flags; by blaming America for all that was wrong with the world; and perhaps most tragically, by failing to honor those veterans coming home from Vietnam, something that remains a national shame to this day.”

Tomorrow may belong to Obama, but here he’s simply spouting crap. “Dragnet” hippies are always fun to blast, those legions of dirty, pot-smoking traitors who lined up at airports, poised to spit on any pour soul in uniform. Yet the reality is much different, as Obama probably knows. The antiwar movement of the 60s and early-70s embraced returning veterans, many of whom became prominent speakers and activists in the cause. It was the US government that shit all over combat vets, from the VA on down; and there was hostility in the military itself, among active duty personnel and the old coots at the local VFW. I remember it well, as Vietnam was still very fresh in the minds of my NCOs and commanding officers. Hell, there were Vietnam vets in uniform who bad-mouthed their fellow combatants, primarily those who turned against the war. The Southeast Asian slaughterhouse did a serious number on the minds of many I served alongside. It was an early eye-opener for me, the first of many lessons.

I don’t know what lessons Obama encountered, but clearly, pandering to American mythology had to be his major.

34. cad - 2 July 2008

Check out the meltdown on DK!

Little prince Markos stamps his feet in purity troll fashion because the guy he forced on us isn’t doing what “progressives” do. And look, there’s Arianna whining now after her site demanded we take Obama or die! And look, there’s DK fascist Elise demanding that everybody ignore Obama’s pandering to right wing memes on the 60’s!

Oh the irony. Rich.

35. Arcturus - 2 July 2008

Videos showing policemen in the city of Leon practicing torture techniques on a fellow officer and dragging another through vomit at the instruction of a U.S. security company advisor created an uproar Tuesday in Mexico, which has struggled to eliminate torture in law enforcement.

Two of the videos, shown by national television networks and newspaper Internet sites, showed what Leon city Police Chief Carlos Tornero described as training for an elite unit that faces “real-life, high-stress situations,” such as kidnapping and torture by organized crime groups.
. . .
One of the videos, first obtained by the newspaper El Heraldo de Leon, shows police appearing to squirt water up a man’s nose — a technique once notorious among Mexican police. Then they dunk his head in a hole said to be full of excrement and rats. The man gasps for air and moans. In another video, an English-speaking trainer has an exhausted agent roll into his own vomit. Other officers then drag him through.

“These are no more than training exercises for certain situations, but I want to stress that we are not showing people how to use these methods,” Tornero said. He said the English-speaking man was with a private U.S. security company helping to train the agents, but he refused to give details.

A third video aired by the Televisa network showed officers jumping on the ribs of a suspect curled into a fetal position in the bed of a pickup truck. Tornero said that the incident, which occurred several months earlier, was under investigation and that the officers involved had disappeared. LAT

whaddya wanna bet the training was paid for through some form of American ‘aid’? which the Merida Initiative should greatly boost

36. marisacat - 2 July 2008

sorry! Madman and Arcturus out of Moderaton…..



I am little suspicious of Dkos/Kos, Arianna (after the primary season, I just cannot hear her voice anymore, geesh), MoveOne, etc.

It’s nto like they care, so I think it is for show. As far back as 2004, MoveOn was backing predictable Dems… and fully silent on the war. LOL The other two are former wingers….

37. marisacat - 2 July 2008

The antiwar movement of the 60s and early-70s embraced returning veterans, many of whom became prominent speakers and activists in the cause. Perrin via Madman

Yup, rarely gets a mention, ever.

38. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008

37 – the whole point of the original Rambo book (and to a lesser extent the movie) was how horrible “normal” society was to returning Vietnam vets. Of course, by the second movie it became a tool to sell the idea that it was the HIPPIES who were the problem, and the press, and balls-to-the-wall killing was the only way to return to American greatness. A narrative was decided upon and relentlessly pushed, and people swallowed it. Who needs real history when you can rely upon a manufactured script.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008

How Ignorant Are We?

Taking up the first of our definitions of stupidity, how ignorant are we? Ask the political scientists and you will be told that there is damning, hard evidence pointing incontrovertibly to the conclusion that millions are embarrassingly ill-informed and that they do not care that they are. There is enough evidence that one could almost conclude — though admittedly this is a stretch — that we are living in an Age of Ignorance.

Surprised? My guess is most people would be. The general impression seems to be that we are living in an age in which people are particularly knowledgeable. Many students tell me that they are the most well-informed generation in history.

Why are we so deluded? The error can be traced to our mistaking unprecedented access to information with the actual consumption of it. Our access is indeed phenomenal. George Washington had to wait two weeks to discover that he had been elected president of the United States. That’s how long it took for the news to travel from New York, where the Electoral College votes were counted, to reach him at home in Mount Vernon, Virginia. Americans living in the interior regions had to wait even longer, some up to two months. Now we can watch developments as they occur halfway around the world in real time. It is little wonder then that students boast of their knowledge. Unlike their parents, who were forced to rely mainly on newspapers and the network news shows to find out what was happening in the world, they can flip on CNN and Fox or consult the Internet.

But in fact only a small percentage of people take advantage of the great new resources at hand. In 2005, the Pew Research Center surveyed the news habits of some 3,000 Americans age 18 and older. The researchers found that 59% on a regular basis get at least some news from local TV, 47% from national TV news shows, and just 23% from the Internet.

40. wilfred - 2 July 2008

Oy, read that the networks are already planning a Russert movie of the week and they just cast Randy Quaid to play him. Count me out.

41. wilfred - 2 July 2008

BBC just reporting the Ingrid Betancourt has just been freed after being held by Farc rebels for 6 years. It was by an undercover operation and 3 Americans were freed also.

42. moiv - 2 July 2008

More ramifications of the Catholic Charities-related abortion story from the last thread.

The incident involved a Guatemalan teenager being cared for by Commonwealth Catholic Charities, through a program that arranges foster care for illegal immigrant children in the country without adult guardians.

Officials fired four of the Richmond-based charity’s workers determined to have helped the girl travel to and from the January procedure, and who signed a consent form for the abortion.

“I express my profound apology for the loss of life of one of the most vulnerable among us,” DiLorenzo wrote. “And I apologize for the profound embarrassment this has caused the Catholic Diocese of Richmond, and Catholics throughout the United States.”

The bishop had advance knowledge of the January procedure, but he said he was told by the charity’s executive director, Joanne Nattrass, that there was nothing they could do to intervene.

Nattrass issued a statement saying she learned Jan. 17 that the girl was scheduled to have an abortion the next morning.

The information was relayed to the bishop, who Nattrass said replied that “I forbid this to happen.” But Nattrass said she and other authorities were led to believe they could not stop it.


Meanwhile, authorities are investigating whether the charity or the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops violated state and federal laws.

The conference receives $7.6 million a year in federal funds to place unaccompanied illegal immigrant children in foster care until they’re reunited with relatives, sponsored, or returned to their homeland.


Federal law bans the use of federal money to pay for abortions with exceptions for rape, incest or threats to the life of the mother. Virginia law requires parental consent for an abortion for a girl under 18.

43. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 July 2008

I’m deeply suspicious of the whole Columbia thing … it just HAPPENS to coincide w/ McCain’s visit?

44. marisacat - 2 July 2008

very quickly today, via TNH I was told Uribe is at 84 in the polls and “this will send him higher”.

45. wilfred - 2 July 2008

Nightline just did a piece and said the 3 Americans are already on a plane to the US.

McCain was never mentioned (so far anyway). Nothing surprises me though.

46. marisacat - 2 July 2008


moiv, assume you know this already, but I just heard on the news that Grand Jury refused to indict Dr Tiller in KS.

Will find a link.

47. marisacat - 2 July 2008

Grand jury refuses to indict Kansas abortion doctor


Associated Press Writer

WICHITA, Kan. | A Kansas grand jury declined Wednesday to indict one of the nation’s few late-term abortion providers, saying it did not find enough evidence to indict him on any crime related to abortion laws.

In a written statement, grand jurors said that unless the Legislature amends state law and provides clearer guidelines, it is unlikely any investigation will provide a basis to indict Dr. George Tiller.

The panel said it reached its decision after a six-month investigation that included hearing witness testimony and reviewing documents and medical records of patients of Women’s Health Care Services.

Grand jurors said they believed the state Legislature made an earnest attempt to limit late-term abortions by including the words “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function” to prohibit the abortion of a viable fetus unless two doctors find the abortion was necessary.

“Our perception is that these words were used to insure that only the gravest of circumstances would allow the abortion of a viable fetus,” according to the grand jury statement. “However, the medical records reviewed by this jury revealed a number of questionable late-term abortions with regard to the diagnosis of ’substantial and irreversible impairment.’”

But jurors wrote that as the current law has been written — and interpreted by the Kansas Supreme Court — late-term abortions will continue for many circumstances that as a matter of common interpretation do not meet the definition. ::snip::

48. moiv - 2 July 2008

Melissa McEwan and Maureen McCluskey in the Guardian: Destroying Hillary Clinton

The first presidential spouse who pursued a major policymaking role, the beleaguered first lady has been a heroine and role model to her feminist allies – and a malevolent, power-mad shrew to her conservative foes.”

Sometime in the last decade, her liberal foes evidently decided that whole “malevolent, power-mad shrew” thing sounded pretty good, too.

Throughout the course of the Democratic primary, it was neatly repackaged as “wildly ambitious person who will do anything in her voracious quest to win including destroying the Democratic Party while cackling monstrously and whose womanness totally doesn’t matter we swear.” The classic misogynist charge once used against Clinton by the vast right-wing conspiracy became the rallying cry of large swaths of the erstwhile reality-based community.

Without a hint of irony.


One diarist on Daily Kos even provided a helpful guide to all the scandals of the Clinton years, with ratings from one to 10 based on scandal level and the level of Hillary Clinton’s involvement.


Some of the scandal mentions were deployed defensively, in order to deflect attention away from Obama’s own alleged scandals: When the press began to pay attention to Obama’s association with Tony Rezko, supporters raised the complaint that insufficient attention was being paid to Whitewater, the Clintons’ fateful failed Arkansas land deal, despite a multi-million dollar investigation that found no wrongdoing having been completed a decade earlier.

By April, the blogfather Kos himself was agreeing that Clinton wasn’t even to be considered a Democrat anymore.

49. moiv - 2 July 2008


Yes, we had very welcome news from Kansas today. 🙂

50. moiv - 2 July 2008

Needless to say, the Guardian piece is not being well received in certain quarters.


The Primaries Are Over (19+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
metal prophet, Glinda, TheJohnny, nehark, Geekesque, 417els, Dem in the heart of Texas, dotster, Pragmaticus, palantir, Sun dog, pvlb, wil5013, soms, sea2008, Lava20, kingfishstew, browneyes, lh114

The revolution will not be televised, but we’ll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

by DHinMI on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:22:54 PM CDT


where’s the link and is the UK Guardian (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Dem in the heart of Texas, soms

a credible newspaper??

by alba on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:36:29 PM CDT


No it really isn’t very credible (0+ / 0-)

you’re right.

by Anne Elk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:51:24 PM CDT


Cherry picking Daily Kos diaries, (6+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
nehark, alba, Dem in the heart of Texas, Sun dog, soms, browneyes

Speaking of rightwing rhetorical devices.

“[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential”–The Washington Post.

by Geekesque on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:32:48 PM CDT


51. marisacat - 2 July 2008

LOL… what a hoot. Yeah I was very anxious for Hillary (and the batty race baiting royal consort) to be out of the way, so the klieg lights would be on Obama Risen Jesus. LOL And now they are.

Some of the scandal mentions were deployed defensively, in order to deflect attention away from Obama’s own alleged scandals:.

I’d argue his scandals are losing the ‘alleged’ dodge.

And I will mention one that was. Ferraro. An obscure interview in a small paper The Torrance Breeze, more than 10 days previous. Obama camp made it blow (via press release) two days before Wright hit. It had somewhat kicked around blogs over the immediately past weekend (which I was unaware of as they were aligned blahgs) By which time [of his pr] ABC and FOX would have been calling his camp for comment.

Yeah PS I gave a flying hoo hoo what what she said. Then or now. Take issue, whatever. LOL. Oh right, all of Obama’s white supporters are so cleansed of bias, racism or anything [a yard sign’ll do it] even clsoe to it. I posted here following that weeks long blow up (which Ferraro helped fan) that both Kerry and McCaskill said things so close in words and bias (if indeed there was one) And I posted from Obama’s own senate site, his words that he only stood out for his uniqueness. Long disquisition he offered on it, soon after he got to the senate. Think it was a Chicago Trib article reprinted on it site.

So over it.

52. marisacat - 2 July 2008


shill land.

53. marisacat - 3 July 2008

Alternet has a post up on Jesusing from Jesus. It was hard to pick a few grafs but since Obama is up on Christian radio (and McCain is not, btw), thanks to 3rd party cash… thsi was a good one to go with

[M]ara Vanderslice has been called the “faith guru” by The Hill in Washington, DC. Her consulting firm, Common Good Strategies, recently formed a political action committee, the Matthew 25 Network, to advocate on Obama’s behalf. In the past, Vanderslice has advised her clients not only to downplay their support for abortion rights and gay rights but also never to use the phrase “separation of church and state”. Hired by Sen. John Kerry’s presidential campaign in 2004, she ultimately found herself sidelined. “She was a little bit overzealous,” the late Father Robert Drinan, a liberal Catholic legend and Kerry adviser, told the New York Times. Vanderslice claimed results two years later in the Congressional midterms. Her clients, she said, citing exit polling, garnered 10 percent more of the evangelical vote than two years before. Whether Democratic gains among so-called “values voters” were a result of Vanderslice’s inspired appeals, or simply a reflection of the nationwide backlash against the Republican Congress and Bush’s policies, does not deter her from taking credit.

As Obama has emerged, he has embraced Vanderslice’s tactics. In 2006, during a speech before the Call to Renewal conference, a gathering of moderate evangelicals convened by Rev. Jim Wallis, Obama sought to break with Democratic orthodoxy by attacking unnamed “secularists.” “But what I am suggesting is this — secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square,” Obama declared. “Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.” ::snip::

BTW, according to PEW polling, Dems picked up 3 pts with evangels in 2006, tho Begala nad others crowed and screamed election night that they got 36 pts., overall. (which would have been 10 pts at least mroe than previously)… who cares, we are awash in fictions.

54. James - 3 July 2008
55. marisacat - 3 July 2008


I especially lvoed this

To get an idea of the tone of Silber’s writing, just imagine the prophet Jeremiah transported from 6th Century Judea into a Starbucks somewhere in 21st Century America and given a laptop.

56. marisacat - 3 July 2008

LOL.. Silber added an update.

[N]o need for straitjackets. NO, I do NOT think Obama is Hitler reincarnated. I must note, however, that his full embrace of the U.S.’s truly insane foreign policy of aggressive, non-defensive war is not precisely unHitlerian, just as his full embrace of corporatism bears a rather disturbing resemblance to aspects of Hitler’s political program. But the same could be said of every major American politician. ::snipwhippy::

57. bayprairie - 3 July 2008

hairclub said

Arthur Silber is a consistently long-winded…

pretty funny, considering the source.

58. bayprairie - 3 July 2008

hey 55, you beat me to it! i was just about to cite that.

he really needs to work on those blends.

59. marisacat - 3 July 2008

LOL From the Alternet article linked at 53:

Another influential African-American prosperity gospel pastor, Kirbyjon Caldwell, attended the June 10 meeting with Obama. “It is unscriptural not to own land,” the preacher has declared. Caldwell, a former bond dealer who founded the country’s largest Methodist congregation, the Houston-based Windsor Village, has been among George W. Bush’s most vocal and visible black backers. He introduced Bush at the 2000 Republican National Convention, delivered the benedictions at his 2001 and 2005 inaugural ceremonies and presided over the wedding ceremony of Jenna Bush. Bush has rewarded Caldwell’s good works by lavishing his missions with federal faith-based grants.

But almost as soon as Obama declared his campaign for the presidency, Caldwell broke from the GOP, delivering a roaring endorsement for the Democrat from Illinois, hailing him for his “character, confidence and courage.” “For the last twelve months, I’ve been talking to people who are part of the [Obama] campaign very, very regularly,” Caldwell said recently.

Caldwell’s endorsement did not come without controversy. Just days after Obama delivered a speech criticizing homophobia in the black church, some gay bloggers revealed that Caldwell’s own Windsor Village church hosted a ministry that, according to its website, was “created to provide Christ centered instruction for those seeking freedom from homosexuality.” Caldwell denied any knowledge of the ministry, though he refused to condemn it. Yet when the revelation spread from the blogosphere to the mainstream media, and proof surfaced that the ministry was an integral component of Windsor Village, Caldwell’s congregation scrubbed all mention of it from its website.

Oh you just have to laugh at that scheisse. Have to.

60. marisacat - 3 July 2008

oh brther. Jeffrey Rosen pulled something out of some body sphincter here. And is at odds with Jonathan Turley in USAToday.

It’s still too early to judge Roberts’s tenure, but it seems increasingly clear that liberals dodged a bullet when President Bush nominated him to be chief justice. Instead of siding with conservative extremists like Clarence Thomas, who are eager to press the limits of the so-called Constitution in Exile, resurrecting limits on federal power whenever possible, Roberts prefers narrow opinions that can attract support from the center. Liberals ought to applaud this instinct because, even if Barack Obama gets to appoint the next justice or two, it’s the only thing standing between them and a Court eager to roll back progressive reforms.

61. marisacat - 3 July 2008

IOZ has a good one on vero possumwussmus-stick-a-crucifix-in-it

and a couple of comments were worth the drop in:

ExecutedToday said…

No “How Barack Obama Brought Me to Orgasm” tag?

Time for a “How Come Barack Doesn’t Call After I Put Out on the First Date, and Should I Tell Him I’m Late?” tag?

2:33 PM

Thomas Daulton said…

Hey, “Executed Today” — funniest comment I’ve read in months. And absolutely, absolutely right on the mark. Perhaps that’s why the Donkle got all upset about that Fox News “Obama’s Baby Mama” thing. “Hey, I’M his Baby Mama!” they protest.

4:22 PM

62. marisacat - 3 July 2008

MJS at SMBIVA posts an interesting article from Palestine Chronicle on Blair and an Israeli who raised large amounts for New Labour. Apparently more than a few schekels in hand were worth plenty of dead Iraqis.

[]In 1994, a legal friend and colleague of his, Eldred Tabachnik, Q.C., the former president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, introduced him to Michael Levy, a pop music mogul and fundraiser for Jewish and Israeli causes….

Levy expressed his willingness “to raise large sums of money for the party” if there was a “tacit understanding that Labour would never again, while Blair was leader, be anti-Israel”.

The result: Levy ran the Labour Leader’s Office Fund to finance Blair’s campaign in the 1997 General Election. Levy in effect made New Labour possible….

But, Blair needed a constant source of funds if he was to reduce the influence of the unions – and, it seems, he needed to hide its source lest it be questioned. One of the better known figures at Labour Friends of Israel is David Abrahams, a Jewish property developer…. Abrahams took on part of the task of secretly funding New Labour. He gave more than £650,000 to the Party under four other people’s names – a move since admitted to be unlawful by the Prime Minister Gordon Brown but which has had no legal consequence…. ::snip::

The article is very interesting on Brown as well.

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

Good news on Dr. Tiller. Nice to wake up some good news for a change.

Flipped on Morning Joe, and they’re having an animated discussion about some Time magazine piece about how McCain likes to play Craps and Obama is a Poker player, and what it tells us about their “character”.

Boy is this a stupid country.

64. NYCO - 3 July 2008

Hillary came back to Upstate NY and got a biggole tongue bath. Now that she’s a loser, we love her more than ever.

65. bayprairie - 3 July 2008

i just HAVE to share this. the democratic TX senate candidate Lt. Colonel Rick Noriega©‘s “alternative” to stateside offshore drilling.

“Let’s go ahead and start drilling. Let’s go drill in Iraq right now, where we have had our sons and daughters spilling their blood, and we’re sitting on those oil fields,” Noriega said last week on a Midland radio program. “Why are we going to use our resources, our limited resources, that we have control over within our own nation versus, uh, we’re sitting on these oil fields over there?”

i get it. jackboots on the ground! great concept…

Noriega’s political spinsters were quick to say he was joking, despite the fact that he repeated the idea several times.

And no one seemed to be laughing…


On Wednesday, Noriega maintained that it was an “off-the-cuff remark” that had no part in his comprehensive (!!!!) energy policy.

“If it was an of the-cuff-remark, then why did you repeat it?” I asked him. “I mean, you said it four times.”

“Because it was an off-the-cuff remark that many times,” he told me.

66. NYCee - 3 July 2008

Elmer Gantry! 🙂

Hey peeps.

Just wanted to throw down this diary, nice for a change, I just spied on DK, titled: Abortion is Good!

Sorry I saw it just as its slipping off the edge…

That’s plain and simple, aint it? Breath o fresh air.

67. JJB - 3 July 2008

54 and 55,

I really find it funny that Hairball accuses Silber of being long-winded, then goes on to quote William of Ockham in the original Latin, and adds a paraphrase to translation, thereby having Ockham says something he never said, i.e., “[t]he simplest solution is always the best solution.” You don’t have to know Latin to be able to figure out the second sentence he quotes is not part of the original statement, and if you can’t take a little time to figure out exactly what it says, you’re much better off not using it, and sticking to English. And since he never does work that Ockham’s Razor analogy into his essay, he would have been well advised to drop it.

BTW, “just imagine the prophet Jeremiah transported from 6th Century Judea into a Starbucks somewhere in 21st Century America and given a laptop” isn’t the witty insult he thinks it is (substitute Hosea and you may have a point), in fact it’s a compliment. But then Hairball never did have much of a sense of when he was making a fool of himself. I might also add that Jeremiah did not live in 6th-century Judea as Hairball has it, which would have been the years 500-599 CE. Jeremiah’s prophetic career spanned the 7th and 6th centuries BCE.

68. CSTAR - 3 July 2008

# 66 I can see a whole lot of contortions in the comments for people trying to remain on the right side of local ordinances in Orange County.

69. JJB - 3 July 2008


The “Masque Of The Red Death” reference doesn’t make sense either, and if you’re going to invoke Yeats’s “The Second Coming” in your title, you’d better make some kind of reference to it in the body of your essay. Someone might also want to tell him that Yeats’s attitude toward the Rough Beast was not one of fear or terror according to a lot of critics, but one of satisfaction.

Hairball doesn’t realize it, but he’s actually written an unintentional parody of a typical New Republic putdown piece, circa 1990-2002 (when I gave up reading it, it’s probable they still publish this kind of pretentious dreck today).

70. ms_xeno - 3 July 2008

Sez Hairball:

…Arthur Silber should know this but unfortunately he has fallen for that oldest of scams, the one where the mark gets robbed because he thinks he’s smarter than he really is.

Bwahahahaaaa !! I’d be choking on my morning coffee if it weren’t still in mid-filtration.

Somebody needs to take a good hard look in the mirror. Hint: It’s not Silber. 😀

71. wilfred - 3 July 2008

ABC just had footing of Big Sur on fire, so awful to see.

72. James - 3 July 2008

Arthur Silber’s latest: Are You Now or Have You Ever Been … A Racist?. Will Hairy actually bother to read it, and more importantly, understand it?

73. marisacat - 3 July 2008

yadda yadda yadda… patriotismfamilyfaithgodchurch yadda nationalserviceveropssumusiamyourdaddy etc:

“I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed,” he said. “And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I’m sure I’ll have more information and will continue to refine my policies.”

“My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything that I’ve said, was always premised on making sure that our troops were safe,” he said. “I said that based on the information that we had received from our commanders that one to two brigades a month could be pulled out safely, from a logistical perspective. My guiding approach continues to be that we’ve got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable.”

74. James - 3 July 2008

Yuppie Bellicosity

Two summers ago, Obama was lauding Nixon’s foreign policy. Two weeks ago it was Reagan’s foreign policy he praised. Today he expressed his gratitude to Reagan for curbing the excesses of the 60s and 70s.

To sum up, the Democratic candidate for President of the United States finds merit in murdering 3 million Vietnamese, 1 million Central American Indians and peasants, and in denying the merit of the civil rights, free speech, and anti-war movements.

How can McCain possibly top Obama’s yuppie bellicosity?

75. marisacat - 3 July 2008

LA Times’ Top of the Ticket blog is with him in Fargo and has more text than NYT printed.

76. ms_xeno - 3 July 2008

From Silber:

…So now we have our first Black presidential candidate, one who may very well be the next president of the United States. In the context of this miasma of lies about racism, almost no one will tell the truth about Obama and what he stands for. (I should say what he appears to stand for; it tends to change from day to day, and hour to hour, but the overall meaning of his policies is unmistakable: like almost every politician of national prominence, he stands for the authoritarian-corporatist state at home, and for endless wars of aggression and other interventions overseas. In short: he stands for the white status quo.)…

Yeah, pretty much. This election is teaching me more than I ever wanted to know about both the possibilities and limits of identity politics.

Watching the ubiquitous Ficus follow James around PFF with the former’s usual dimestore abuse shtick is a treat. Sort of like it would be to watch Thomas Kinkeade following Cezanne around yelling “Hey ! I said your painting sucks ! You suck !! Hey ! I’m talking to you !!”

77. ms_xeno - 3 July 2008

A little something for bayprairie: Ruthie Foster in Dallas singing Small Town Blues.

Those wacky Texans. You never know what they’ll do next. :p

78. James - 3 July 2008

In the fwiw department, Hairy’s crossposted his idiocy about Arthur Silber at his own blog.

79. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

RE: # 66

Found this bit of idiocy in the thread:

Don’t mix things up (0+ / 0-)

no it is not good. The matter who should decide and have power on it should not be mixed with the actual procedure or the ideology behind it.

by choclate on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:06:56 AM PDT

I agree (1+ / 0-)

It’s like starting a chemotherapy fan club.

breaking news in little bits since 1981

by mswaine on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:08:50 AM PDT

Jeebus H. Xrist hanging bloody on a stick. I’m a fan of Chemo. It has saved some people I love. I’m also a fan of various heart procedures. I’m a fan of instances when human beings use their reason to develop ways to alleviate suffering in other human beings … like with effective medical procedures.

Fucking morons.

80. James - 3 July 2008

Heck, chemo probably kept my wife’s biological dad alive long enough for him to see a number of his relatives one last time.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

I wonder how Moiv feels about THIS idiotic comment:

I can’t imagine (0+ / 0-)

even anyone at Planned Parenthood saying publicly that abortion is a good thing. There is a reason they employ counselors at their clinics.

Never to be celebrated, yet never to be prevented either…

No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased…

by jarhead5536 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:11:26 AM PDT

Jarhead proves the point of his/her/its stupid tagline quote.

82. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

RE: #76

Kinkeade is a better painter than the ficus is a commenter.

There is a place in this world for overwrought pics of cottages … what else are middlebrow suburbanites going to hang in their “nice” rooms, pics of big eyed children? That’s would be soooooo ’70s.

83. marisacat - 3 July 2008

oh good lord.

What are they nattering on about?

I was on a “form of chemo”, a diluted solution, and did not have cancer but still had to go to the Oncology Dept, for a year for treatment. Probably gave me a few extra years.

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

speaking of great Texans … I’m off to see Lucinda in a few hours at Summerfest. Can’t wait!

85. ms_xeno - 3 July 2008

#82: I prefer the kind of stuff that ends up showing up at MOBA, Madman. At least you can get if for a decent price.

Have fun at the show.

86. ms_xeno - 3 July 2008

Also, I’m gonna’ kill the next person who whines that I’m not doing enough to “win over” pro-lifers to “my side.” There is no way to “win over” these people and I’m sick of being told that I’m under some obligation to do so. I don’t want their goddamn affirmation. I just want them to get the fuck out of my face.

87. marisacat - 3 July 2008

followed the link,s ee they are in a tizzy over NYCee’s diary. LOL

88. marisacat - 3 July 2008

pro lifers are informed by gawd. sorta like “talent on loan from gawd”. they don’t change their minds.

89. marisacat - 3 July 2008

1700, seventeen hundred, fires in CA. A year like this has been coming for a long time…

90. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

Fuck “pro-lifers”. I don’t even like to speak to them, let alone have them “on my side”. They are, by definition, not “on my side”. As a humanist with a healthy appreciation that woman are, you know … HUMAN BEINGS. How can any asshole superstitious moron that has no respect for women’s health and autonomy be on “my side”?

Fuck ’em. They are the enemy, as racists are the enemy, and militarists and rabid corporatists and free-traders and flat-earthers et cetera, et cetera, et-fucking-cetera.

As for MOBA, ms_x, I would have figured that you were a Velveteria aficianado!


91. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

Obama is walking away from getting troops out of Iraq, per a news conference just now on MSNBC.

God must have told him that killin’ more A-rabs is okey-dokey as long as he saves some feti.

92. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

#89 – all you guys need is a plague of locusts and a volcano. Wow.

93. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

ABC link on Obama’s statements about troops in Iraq:

Democrat Barack Obama says he’s always been opening to refining his Iraq policy but blamed Republican John McCain’s campaign for suggesting “we were changing our policy when we haven’t.”

The Illinois senator called a second news conference of the day Thursday address the GOP criticism of him and resulting questions about where he stands on Iraq.

He said what he learns from military commanders on his upcoming trip to Iraq will refine his policy but “not the 16-month timetable” for withdrawing U.S. troops from combat in Iraq. He said what he learns could affect how many residual troops might be needed to train the Iraqi army and police.

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

Cindy goes after Obama:

“There is no challenge greater than the defense of our nation and our values. The men and women of our military –-– have signed up at a time when our troops face an ever-increasing load. Fighting a resurgent Taliban. Targeting al Qaeda. Persevering in the deserts and cities of Iraq. Training foreign militaries. Delivering humanitarian relief. In this young century, our military has answered when called, even as that call has come too often. Through their commitment, their capability, and their courage they have done us all proud.

“But we need to ease the burden on our troops, while meeting the challenges of the 21st century. That’s why I will call on a new generation of Americans to join our military, and complete the effort to increase our ground forces by 65,000 soldiers and 27,000 Marines.”

The above excerpt is from a speech that the “peace” candidate, Barack Obama gave in Colorado on the 2nd of July. To be sure, he also called for other service to our country but I feel these two paragraphs highlight the continuing subservience the so-called public servants of the USA have to War, Inc.

The only reason that our military is under such a great “burden” is because politicians like Barack Obama have voted consistently for billions (some award winning economists estimate, trillions) of wasted dollars to continue BushCo’s abominable occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Instead of increasing the Pentagon’s already bloated budget, a true peace candidate would be calling for immediate withdrawal of forces from these countries so our military can begin the healing processes that need to occur to rejuvenate our broken military so we can have a true defense force and not an imperialistic ready response team to be on constant alert to storm any country at the whim of the emperor to spread corporate imperialism (what politicians call: Democracy) at the end of an M-16 or bombs bursting in air.

President John F. Kennedy, whom Obama is trying to emulate by calling for increased service to the USA, famously said in his first and only inaugural address:

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

President Kennedy also said, less famously, in that same address:

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life.

Since President Kennedy uttered those words almost 50 years ago, the USA has become very adept at ending all forms of human life and has also, unfortunately, become experts at increasing human poverty and all this is because we have not heeded Kennedy’s predecessor, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower when he warned the nation of the military industrial complex which has expanded over the years into the Military Industrial Congressional Media Complex.

I would like to enhance Kennedy’s famous words on this 4th of July when the country sets off on another celebration of gross militarism and the deaths of millions of people while we never pay tribute to our First Nation peoples who were exterminated so white Europeans could despoil a beautiful land. My new proposal for the 21st C. is:

Ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity.

95. Arcturus - 3 July 2008

‘residual troops’ – that’s like kinda pregnant?

abort now!

92. hush now, por favor . . .

(bonus points for the location of the eastern Sierra’s 1 major ski resort

96. ms_xeno - 3 July 2008

Madman, velvet painting is too cuddly. The cats will pull down your masterpieces and turn them into spontaneous bedding. :p

97. Arcturus - 3 July 2008

surely, the Great Liberal Candidate has s sharply worded opposition to this:

The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other racial and ethnic groups.
. . .
Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons — like evidence or allegations that a law probably has been violated [you know – that old fashion pre-911 shit] — to investigate U.S. citizens and legal residents.

The new policy, law enforcement officials told The Associated Press, would let agents open preliminary

terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious.

or p’haps he agrees w/ the anonymous DOJ official who offers the original thought:

We don’t know what we don’t know

“It’s necessary to put in place regulations that will allow the FBI to transform itself … into an intelligence gathering organization in addition to just a crime solving organization,” Mukasey told reporters.

cuz they have no experience doing that sort of thing

98. marisacat - 3 July 2008

My comments at

73 and 75 are on his walk back on Iraq.

75 to LAT has more extensive comments from his Fargo speech mit presser.

I am hearing now that a later stop he said, Who me? I said something new?

Not news really, his words, all of them are bellicose.

99. marisacat - 3 July 2008

I am wondering if his campaign ran models on how few Americans would hear these speeches this week. Coward offered to do a TownHall with flyboy on July 4, which as McCain people said, low viewing day.

I am very intent he get to be president. People should live with their Jesus.

100. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

RE: 98

I think the ABC link was a follow-up news conference to “clarify” his con.

Not that I care. One empire manager is as good as another. I just enjoy watching the lengths to which “liberals” and “progressives” will go to to deny their lying eyes/ears/internet connections.

I was trying to catch up after work before heading out and missed those links. Thanks.

101. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

#95 – for some reason I didn’t know that CA had active volcanoes. I thought they were all up in OR & WA. Live and learn. Sorry for whistling past that particular graveyard.

102. marisacat - 3 July 2008

… have a great time at the concert Madman…………………….

103. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 July 2008

Thanks MCat!

Alejandro Escovedo, then fireworks on the lakefront, then Lucinda. The only reason I’m home (and running around the ‘net) is that my bosses wanted to head out home before the in-rush into the city, so they let us go early. I was planning on walking straight from work to the festival grounds. Some grilled corn-on-the-cob is calling my name!

I hope everyone has a great night, and may a big cold front blow into CA and put down those fires and clear your air. I worry about you folks!

104. Arcturus - 3 July 2008

Big Sur Will Burn

A dry, hot summer following a long, wet winter—and years of sudden oak death—are bound to fuel an inferno. The only question is: When will it happen?
Sep 28, 2006

. . . Dry grasses and other low-lying forest growth have been piling up in coastal forests for years—their natural rhythm of purge and regeneration stymied by fire suppression and regulation. On top of that, an especially wet spring and dry summer have added more dry fuel than normal.

But the most unsettling element is the massive labyrinth of hardwood trees sitting dead and dying in the Big Sur forest, each tree a highly-flammable victim of an imported pathogen commonly known as sudden oak death.

Hundreds of thousands of these dead oaks now stand or lie atop dry brush, ready to help a fire jump to taller trees like redwoods and pines. This laddering effect is something firefighters fear, because once fires have “crowned” into the wind-charged, hard-to-reach treetops, they get famously difficult to deal with.

105. marisacat - 3 July 2008

new post…


………….. 8) ….

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