Forward march! 10 August 2008
Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Israel/AIPAC, WAR!.trackback
Georgian soldiers avoided a bombardment in the city of Gori, 50 miles from Tblisi. Heavy fighting raged in the breakaway region of South Ossetia on Saturday morning, reportedly killing at least 1,500 civilians. [Photo: Gleb Garanich/Reuters]
Just a couple of snips from Week in Review in the vaunted NYT:
[F]rom the time of Pushkin, Russians viewed Georgia as a romantic, exotic frontier. During the long puritanical deep-freeze of Communism, Georgia served as Russia’s Italy — a warm, lotus-eating sanctuary of singers and poets and swashbuckling gangsters. The elite had their beloved dachas on the Black Sea coast of Abkhazia. At the same time, Stalin, though himself Georgian, kept the republic subdued through brutal purges. The head of the Georgian Communist party was Lavrenti Beria, a cold-blooded killer who would become the master architect of Stalin’s terror. The Georgians, though helpless, never accepted their Soviet identity, and preserved their language, culture, religious practice and sense of national identity, as they had under the czars. And when, at last, the Soviet empire collapsed as the czarist one had, Georgia immediately broke away and declared its independence, in 1991. ::snip::
Reminds me of something the Bushiters said, a few years ago, on the eve of our wars:
Georgia ardently aspires to join the peaceable kingdom of Europe; but to talk to Georgians about Russia is to enter a cold war time warp. I was speaking one evening to the owner of a fine antiques shop in Tbilisi when the conversation somehow swerved to Russia.
“These Russians are so stupid,” he cried. “They do not know what is friend. They would rather have angry enemies than real friends.”
IIRC, the Bushiter version was, we’d rather be be feared then loved. America and Russia should have a blood test, DNA swab, see if we shared a mother, that she-wolf, outside Rome, mother to twins.
Here’s another:
Alexander Rondeli, the director of the Georgian Foundation for Strategic and International Studies, recited to me a thought he attributed to the diplomat-scholar George F. Kennan: “Russia can have at its borders only enemies or vassals.”
Still sounds like us. If you look SOUTH.
last, lenin at Lenin’s Tomb has reached some conclusions… an interesting post on Georgia, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Russia and that other party to intrigue, murder and people in diaspora, us..
Even if Bush was somehow taken by surprise, which I think is unlikely, there is no doubt that the US government and its supporters are now throwing their weight decisively behind Georgia, and are about to get a bloody nose for their trouble. […]
You have to wonder how far the US is prepared to take this – they aren’t going to commit troops and, no matter how much Saakashvili may wish it, NATO is not going to overstretch itself even further. There are also rumours going around sites like DEBKAFile and other sites that Israeli advisors are assisting the Georgian side of the conflict. Yossi Melman of Ha’aretz has apparently supported this claim. It is no secret that there are Israeli military advisors in Georgia, but Israel has a delicate relationship with Russia that it doesn’t want to upset. That is presumably why Israel froze defense sales to Georgia on Tuesday. Israel is clearly far more beholden to the US than to Russia, but I suspect the Bush administration would rather Israel stayed out of any explicit involvement. So, unless I drastically underestimate the Georgian military, I can’t see any other outcome than a decisive Russian victory here.
Bush is going to leave a full platter for whomever is next, I doubt he’d be all that much kinder to McCain frankly. A little maybe. In the end, Bush was a violent radical, who pushed thru his agenda. The opposition was not great, nor lasting. He’ll be leaving some final mark, to laugh over.
I found this Asia Times on Georgia, Russia, etc., from July 16, ’08 via Angry Arab, some recent background.
Aargh.
Georgia has called a ceasefire in its conflict with Russia over the breakaway region of South Ossetia, its foreign ministry says.
For more details: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
Cokie is gonna get some letters. Criticized Obama for his Hawaii vacation, visit with family. “It’s too exotic, he should be in Myrtle Beach”.
LOL
Cokie is the pits.
LOL Richardson says he won’t pile on Edwards (Tapper asked a question). Well how can he, long tortured history himself.
laugh laugh laugh,
very true, the similarities btwn us and Russia … throw in the puritan finger wagging, too.
I like the way ABC uses the puritan-donk line that Casey Sr. didn’t speak b/c of his abortion stand. Hi refusing to endorse Clinton, the party nominee, because of Clinton’s abortion stand might have had something to do with it.
They’re spending a awful lot of time on this BS story, in a week w/ a new war and more scary economic news (despite the irrational rally in the market) and our President acting like a provocative clown in Beijing.
Nothing more important than Edward’s Little Mill Worker and meaningless blather about whether or not Obama should pick dinosaur Sam fucking Nunn as his running mate.
Watching these people talk makes me realize how desperately dull DC cocktail parties must be.
yes but the PARTY no longer brings up that he refused to endorse Clinton. They USED to. Now they just let the Casey/Catholic version ride.
I feel a deal was done with the Catholics… people like Flynn of Boston, Shaitburger of Fireman’s Union (word was he blamed abortion for Kerry loss, and Firemen were about the only loyal to Kerry, power base K had, poor schlumpf)…
Just a weak sick party, hpwever much it gets to fake itself out this go round.
and so it goes.
7
I thonk there is more to drop.
And the Edwardses are UNABLE to fucking shut up.
I usually can’t stand her, but you just know that Maureen Dowd couldn’t resist the pun-rich environment of the Edward’s affair:
and so on …
Suskind has released the transcript of his interview w/ the CIA figure who recently retracted what he told Suskind.
I wonder if EE saw the footage (LOL webisodes) Lisa / Rielle shot before it was scrubbed. And I am sure is floating around, to be used.
Dowd has it right.. LOL. Preening from the preener.
BTW, Inotice Broder struggling more than usual over words. Puhleeze Jesus, call him to tea.
11
I was pissed the very furst interview I saw from Suskind, as soon as embargo was off this book, I found him defensive. he best buck up.
The ONeil book drifted to near silence when (IMO) the WH shut O’N up. Suskind seemed unable to push the book or assist in marketing it, on his own.
Suskind comes off better on radio than on tv.
I did get the sense from him on the NPR interview I heard that he’s going to fight over his sources’ pulling back from what they told him.
Who knows, though … none of this stuff ever ends up sticking, partly because no politicians step up to help drive the story to the next level. Kucinich can’t do it by himself.
Ex-mistress of John Edwards nixes DNA testing to establish the paternity of her daughter
Yes… later I caught Suskind twice on KGO radio… He has another hour coming up this week with one of the hosts, as well.
Personally I have total faith in the ability of pro-choice groups to stay supine and solvent for the Golden Man, no matter what.
When he hits the base, it feels just like a kiss. They should use that particular show tune as the convention theme song. It’s more apt than whatever it is they’ve actually chosen.
From The Nation, a very interesting post on Georgia’s PR blitz.
Again via Bernard at Moon of Alabama who has put up a couple more posts including some info on Ukraine’s involvement.
Kids Working in African Gold Mines
“”….Some are as young as 4 years old
snip
The spike in gold prices over the past seven years has lured increasing numbers of poor people, including child recruits, to bush mines. The United Nations labor agency estimates there are now 100,000 to 250,000 child gold miners in West Africa alone.
Saliou and his friends say the recruiter promised them $2 a day. It sounded like a lot of money to children who had none.
Snip
….They wash the dirt in a large sieve-like box. Then they squat next to a plastic tub, pour mercury into their bare hands, and rub it into the mud like a woman scrubbing laundry on rocks.
Mercury attracts gold like a magnet. But it also attacks the brain and can cause tremors, speech impediments, retardation, kidney damage and blindness.”
Maybe Newsom can get a bargain on some baubles for the Princess….
Off topic? What I really want to read about, is the Brothers Bulger story about Sly Con Valley…and those other hot spots in Cali, that make it one of the most concentrated powers that be, in the world at large…..
One of the The Brothers Bulger book reviews :
”Howie Carr has written a tell all book about the chronic corruption taking place in Massachusetts. I have to agree with one of the previous reviewers with regards to the FBI. They don’t want to capture Whitey. He can probably put the whole FBI in prison [yes…and about that Anthrax STORY]…. “
ya have to ask….why the murky news (otherwise known as the San Jose Mercury News)..appears to be a local, protective rag, doomed for failure by Bush’s bud, Dean Singleton,….for one of the largest economies on earth…
I’ve got two punchlines in spam…normally I wouldn’t comment, but apparently I’ve got ants my pants today…(well, I guess that’s better than fleas in my pants)
;0)
hmmm, it’s the lil things in life, I left out a two letter word above, the relevant line should’ve read: ants IN my pants…
and yeah I do need to dance…..
Fritz Kreisler played the hell out of Liebesleid Love’s Sorrow…. I hope the link is still good……
A very good writeup from Helena Cobban at Just World News, The South Ossetian War: Some thoughts. Via Bernard, again.
Also, well….Don’t know what to say about this.
“But the public relations blitz could not stop Fitch Ratings and Standard & Poor’s from downgrading the country, with Fitch saying the situation in South Ossetia had “materially increased downside risks to Georgia’s sovereign creditworthiness.” ‘
“None of the three big ratings agencies has altered Russia’s ratings, and Moody’s Investors Service said the conflict should not change its rating of Russia’s sovereign debt.”
computers will never, ever, ever be more relevant than the Human Spirit………….unfortunately…we’ve got a long way to go, to come to that resounding hue and cry…………………..
until then, I guess we’re stuck using them, to coldly, with no much needed warm embrace, communicate what is in our hearts…and use them we will, if we must….
26
on my impossible list of things to do: determine what exactly Standard and Poors is – the who, what, when, where, why, how and how many of it…..
my last comment (the comment numbers will be changing) referred to yours, aemd, where you posted this:
“But the public relations blitz could not stop Fitch Ratings and Standard & Poor’s from downgrading the country, with Fitch saying the situation in South Ossetia had “materially increased downside risks to Georgia’s sovereign creditworthiness.” ‘
19
I thought I had bolded this:
Mercury attracts gold like a magnet. But it also attacks the brain and can cause tremors, speech impediments, retardation, kidney damage and blindness.”
an asides, Santa Clara County, California (can we say Sly Con Valley here?), not quite so long ago, ….was on record as having the highest rate of incest (parents raping their own children) in the “United States of America”…whatever the hell “United States of America” mean….
yeah, I have a long fuckin memory…..I’m one of those pathetic humans………….
by the by, my comments that were in spam, are visible now, they were regarding the gold mines in Africa and the San Jose Mercury News, currently (5:41 PM EST, 10:41 Brit time) comment numbers: 19, and 22….
dead silence? ….I hardly think so…..;0)
Isaac Hayes died this afternoon.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gsCUwiqAHCNIbxD6oePjCg1RToZQD92FLGD00
Well, apparently, youtube, Brinn, Page..et al, are Fritz Kreisler (by osmosis?…), whatever the fuck, and since ya’ll cant likely find it elsewhere: Liebesleid
“I own all you encompass…” “I rule all you encompas….” pathetic……….
Thanks penlan…….jeez….big fan…despite the scientology shit…
..there is a meeting in Samaria………..
….walk on by Isaac…we talkin bout shaft ..can you dig it….shut yo mouth……by the time I get to phoenix…….;0)
Speaking of Israel, 60 minutes doing a ridiculous puff piece on Israel’s Air Force. The whole segment could have been shot and edited by a publicist.
oh because the i af might have a big job coming up. fluff the perpetrators
Don’t Look For Any MSM Background To The Caucasus Crisis
I Love some Sheryl Crow…because her music helped carry me through some pretty bleak days: I Shall Believe
Sheryl Crow, and so many other voices that make the day bearable..
thank goodness for them, don’t want to remain in a world where there is no more human voice….
really fed up with calling the companies we all pay good money to, for vital services, and trying to communicate with robots, who sound way too human, yet not human at all……because they aren’t……
at what point is anyone going to admit that pure capitalism’s intent, is to do away with the “risks” asociated with hiring humans, versus ’employing’ robots who voice no complaint?
at that point, I guess things will have “progressed to a point far worse than Soylent Green….why is there such a resounding silence about that?
Anyone watching the online live coverage of obscure sports from NBC? Handball. Kazakhstan vs. France. Big bad women hurling a ball at each other. They don’t take no s— from nobody. Love it.
Georgia Under Online Assault
Madman and NYCO out of moderation… Sorry!, for the delay…
…. 8) ….
I love watching the more “unusual” sports like team handball. Last night I was watching water polo, and they were talking about how some guy came back to play for his country from his “professional league”, and I thought … there is a professional league for water polo?
Speaking of women who take no shit, did you see the finals for Sabre? Holy crap. Mariel Zagunis was scary when she scored a point. Really fun to watch, and no overwhelming product placement.
I’m so sick of the coverage focusing on the medal count. Why not just enjoy the competition? Why does everything have to be jingoistic?
China just won an archery match against England that they were not supposed to win. Pandemonium!
Why does everything have to be jingoistic?
exactly why i watch the opening ceremonies and very little else. And just watching those with some winger in-laws was enough to send me screaming.
My favorite comment of the evening was “now we might get some of the Iraq oil that they owe us”. That made my head explode.
Zagunis was impressive. Somehow or other, with all that is happening i loved that she took the gold for SABRE fencing. LOL.
But most of it is a blur for me…
Haven’t been watching the Olympics, but I wish I would’ve watched the fencing, just found some nice pics: pics
I watched both her semi final and final match. Zagunis was fantastic. Watched some skeet shooting this afternoon… I wouldn’t want any of those dudes as my assassin. 😉
hmmm British movie theatres ban popcorn. They ”don’t like it, the look of it, the SMELL of it”.
Sell popcorn futures in the UK, I guess.
hmm Not bad article in the CSM on Russo Georgian War. How long can it go on, will it spread, … I say, as far, long and wide as the arms dealers can push it.
Obama brand (the staff is writing it, LOL, he graces the book with a forward) is hitting us with another book. 13.95, pretty low price point. Very soft paperback, I’d say……
I hate NBC’s coverage and wish the old ABC — of Wide World of Sports vintage — were still doing it. “The constant variety of sport” has become “the same four or five so-called ‘marquee’ events.” Bleah.
It’s really a shame that archery hasn’t even made it to the cable channels, much less to NBC proper — it’s internet-only. It’s fast-moving (a match takes about 20 minutes), requires no explanation to understand, is pretty gripping, and highly telegenic — all those closeups of faces deep in concentration, trying to drill the bull’s-eye. (Not to mention Brad Ellison, the only real American male medal contender, is quite the hottie.)
sorry, that’s BradY Ellison (not Brad)
LOL cue that it may not be Kaine … (from The Page)
The last decent olympic coverage was 1992. There were 3-4 channels going 24/7. Several were dedicated to real time, carrying everything & then the main one focused on specific events in prime time, etc.
I got very annoyed last night, when at 2am, instead of going on to broadcast other events, or other countries in women’s gymnastics, the main NBC channel simply repeated their prime time coverage.
I think ’92 was the last one I bothered with…
Partly because I had considered going for a while (can’t imagine what hit me, so unlike me, sports venues, masses of people, not my thing).
Even the little I have caught it is clear they play favorites. Just let the damn cameras run, … we will get a lot of the swimming favorites.
I really thought about going to Athens, because I would have had a free place to stay… alas, that was the summer I decided to go into debt to build the studio.
They really should at least allow for real time coverage 24/7 on a couple of channels… then again they probably don’t have enough sportcasters to do the color – just like news channels have eliminated foreign bureaus, sportscasters are now paired down to a handful of 7 figure salary mentally challenged personalities…
So what’s Obama’s position on Russia and Georgia?
NYCO
I’ll get it for you… he did do a slight shift.
Here is one link and I will find earlier links… Since I agree with neither Ob nor McC, I can say that I do think McC got out ahead on this, for domestic consumption.
An earlier link…
There is more. Sorry to use Ben SMith but he stayed ont his while most people took the weekend off.
Earlier.
Pretty much covers it but for back and forth between the camps over a McC aide with a background representing Georgia
Geraghty at NRO is following it thru the day, as well. In another entry he mentions Russian troops are 35 miles from Tbilisi (probably and extra “i” in there)… and mentions CNN has fresh film, that looks ‘Mad Max in Central Asia’.
The War Nerd, when he’s not surfin’ for new war porn, chats about the Ossetian war.
“The Georgians bided their time, then went on the offensive, Caucasian style, by pretending to make peace and all the time planning a sneak attack on South Ossetia. They just signed a treaty granting autonomy to South Ossetia this week, and then they attacked, Corleone style. Georgian MLRS units barraged Tskhinvali, the capital city of South Ossetia; Georgian troops swarmed over Ossetian roadblocks; and all in all, it was a great, whiz-bang start, but like Petraeus asked about Iraq way back in 2003, what’s the ending to this story? As in: how do you invade territory that the Russians have staked out for protection without thinking about how they’ll react?”
And all too likely Georgia was green lit by Washington.
On NOW with Brancaccio, I caught an Afghani woman who has made a documentary of the daily nitty gritty of life (will get the link) in rural Afghanistan and in the interview she made a comment about a phrase that is heard in Afghanistan:
If you don’t do what the Americans want, they send you Democracy.
Just saw thsi at Tapper (he also has McC graf), the latest from ob
U.S., Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Ukraine conduct exercise in Georgia July, 2008
“And all too likely Georgia was green lit by Washington.”
I agree. I find it hard to believe Georgia would go this alone. Way too much risk of it going bad…like it has. I find all the propaganda fascinating, both sides, hell all sides. LOL. Amazing stuff. The fight to control the message. Obama’s response too.
Found this at Bloomberg. The whole article is very interesting. A change of tone from the MSM. Hmmm.
“Russia’s widening military campaign in Georgia may end up threatening the U.S. strategic aims of preventing Iran from building a nuclear bomb and securing Central Asian energy supplies for Europe.
“A Russian-Georgian war will imperil U.S.-Russian diplomacy no matter what,” said Cliff Kupchan of New York-based Eurasia Group, a political-risk consulting firm. The U.S. and European reactions will make Russia “more obstinate at the Security Council,” where President George W. Bush seeks to impose tougher United Nations sanctions on the Iranian government, he added.”
aemd
Cannot rermember where I read it (think Instapundit, will find it) Tom Clancey apparently used a plot device of CIA undercover teams sent in to Georgia, with a Russian “invasion”. In 2001.
And all sorts of border issues are being raised, What a Shock! Kosovo, Taiwan… etc. To say nothing of A Free Kurdistan.
Don’t forget, Georgia reportably has a lot of support from Israel
Flying Without a Wallet
Scary, call who, for what? A simple Accurint search? Hmmmmm
snip
Land of the “free”.
Did U.S., Israel Provocateur S. Ossetia Conflict? Does the Sun Come Up in the Morning?
The Clancey plot was at Campaign Spot. About the middle of the post.
a couple of links were held by the TSA in moderation, I think.
Kos, The Pwog Warrior – Insight Into An Infantile Blogger Mind:
I’m often happiest when I’m on the warpath, engaging the enemy head on with brute force. That’s generally my contribution to this place (besides keeping the lights on, of course).
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/11/185136/916/92/566395
hmm that flight without wallet story is interesting.
About 35 years ago… mabye a little more I called the FBI to get my file. At least at that time, that was how you started. I would not have bothered frankly, but my name appeared in the file of a friend (her file was over 400 pages)…
All I was asked to give (via letter) was name and DOB. Nothing else.
They know where we are… and I think both political parties do too.
Well how long for Chechnya? I did a post back at LSF, building off an appearance of a wonderful UK Times reporter on DemocracyNOW!… and in the course went back to the BBC to get a timeline… back and forth, back and forth, back and froth. Restart of hostilities… fall of Grozny, next fall of Grozny.
On and on and on and on. Never ending. The poisoning in the Moscow theatre, the Moscow blocks of apartment buildings bombed. the villagers bombed.. on and on.
Ugh many more statements from the “candidates”, or whatever they are. One fo the evening news reported now a militarist moves up for Ob as Veepessa.
What a mess.
We don’t know nothing ’bout starting no war.
“Pentagon officials said that despite having 130 trainers assigned to Georgia, they had no advance notice of Georgia’s sudden move last Thursday to send thousands of Georgian troops into South Ossetia to capture that province’s capital, Tskhinvali.
Not only did the U.S. troops working alongside their Georgian counterparts not see any signs of an impending invasion, Georgian officials did not notify the U.S. military before the incursion, a senior U.S. defense official told McClatchy.”
Hmmm, someone felt it necessary to get this out to the press. 😎
Listening to a discussion on radio. hmm Russia wants the pipeline, apparently.
I read a report early on, Friday I think, that seemed to say, reading thru the lines, that the pipeline would be targeted but unlikely to be hit. Well, that makes sense.
they want the pipeline, the US/Israel wants the pipeline.
et cetera.
good thing the cold war ended.
hmm From aemd’s Bloomberg link, up thread… around comment 73
silly country:
She discusses some of the issues from the other side, of blacks who’ve felt slighted by lighter-skinned people “passing”, then closes with:
sigh
Ah, now the McClatchy article starts to make sense.
Gorbachev has a piece in the Wapo.
“Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a “blitzkrieg” in South Ossetia.
In other words, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was expecting unconditional support from the West, and the West had given him reason to think he would have it. Now that the Georgian military assault has been routed, both the Georgian government and its supporters should rethink their position.”
hungary 56 — and so many others
Quite a few Russians (and Georgians) calling into KGO.. http://www.KGOam810.com )they stream on the ‘nets)
When will they ever let this bugbear rest in peace.. Appeasing Russia The historical reasons why the West should intervene in Georgia.
Munich, Chamberlain. Blecch. There should be something like Godwin’s law regarding to bringing up this overworked historical analogy. Mention it, debate’s over and you lose.
David Hackett Fisher in his book “Historian’s Fallacies” calls this an instance of “The fallacy of the perfect analogy” (with an explicit mention to the Munich argument in an example)
There should be something like Godwin’s law regarding to bringing up this overworked historical analogy.
Can I still use Vichy Dems, though?
92 Maybe pétainiste might be more suitable.
I almost turned it off… Brian Phelps, the olympic swimmer going for 8 golds… but NBC did a little snip on him… (eats 10,000 calories a day, whew) but he has the greatest bull dog… sleeps with him and throws its head back and snores like a person. What a hoot!
ugh so many elements are glad to have The Russian Bear back.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev orders an end to the Russian military operation in Georgia.
For more details: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
hmm just got the BBC email at 2:12 am PT… will see what story is around.
nu thred…….
LINK
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