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Hosanna! I have seen the light! 28 August 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


Workers put the finishing touches on the set in preparation for the evening [Todd Heisler/The New York Times]

… it just did not mean much. A good, political retail speech, better than average (by far) but again, a list of promises… Are you, by any chance, expecting the “same medical coverage as congress has”? I hope not. The phrase has become a glib toss off to Democratic audiences for years now…

And what of war – and war business..? Impossibly murky and growing more so every day.

Transcript: Barack Obama’s Acceptance Speech (August 28, 2008)

And Gore? Lordy:

“Take it from me,” Gore continued,” if it had ended differently, we would not be bogged down in Iraq, we would have pursued bin Laden until we captured him. We would not be facing a self-inflicted economic crisis; we would be fighting for middle-income families. We would not be showing contempt for the Constitution; we’d be protecting the rights of every American, regardless of race, religion, disability, gender or sexual orientation. And we would not be denying the climate crisis; we’d be solving it.”

I don’t think that any arm of The State will ever be hunting, much less hunting down, bin laden. But it sells well, especially to the party out of office. And good cover for shifting the war focus.

Who knows what is coming. I think we are slipping and sliding from ice floe to ice floe..

The farthest I ever felt comfortable in going w/r/t what Gore would have done differently, he would have read, himself, the August 6th 2001NIE. He would have. I don’t know that we would not have gone to the second war…

Silber pits Gore’s words against the Principles of the Nuremberg Tribunals… and the old question, do they hear themselves?

And this:

…before he entered the White House, Abraham Lincoln’s experience in elective office consisted of eight years in his state legislature in Springfield, Ill., and one term in Congress –- during which he showed the courage and wisdom to oppose the invasion of another country, that was popular when it started, but later condemned by history.

“The experience Lincoln’s supporters valued most in that race was his powerful ability to inspire hope in the future at a time of impasse,” Gore said. “He was known chiefly as a clear thinker and a great orator, with a passion for justice and a determination to heal the deep divisions of our land. He insisted on reaching past partisan and regional divides, to exalt our common humanity. In 2008, once again, we find ourselves at the end of an era with a mandate from history to launch another new beginning. And once again, we have a candidate whose experience perfectly matches an extraordinary moment of transition.”

That stuff is worn out. For one, they can’t talk about Obama’s record… too little of it. So, they allude he has the potential of being a latter day Lincoln.

One thing I saw when he got to Washington, he had no interest in settling down and figuring out how to maneuver the senate. On the move. And he became very “blank”… I had expected him to be quiet, lie low, figure out the lay of the land… he was obviously in a tough spot, but blank I did not expect.

Above all, it is so clear how little regard the Democratic party has for the voter, at all points in the process. Quelle surprise…



1. lucid - 29 August 2008

Again, please read the Heidegger Freiburg Address.

It is not just Obama, but there is no difference.

2. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Charlie Rose…. what a slobber fest.

Jon Meacham joins the ‘take a punch, throw a punch’ crowd, claiming Lolo Soetero taught Ob that in Indonesia. I say they are confused and Biden’s mother taught him.


3. marisacat - 29 August 2008

I did read it lucid and popped it in an email so Madman would not miss it in the am…


4. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Jodi Kantor on Charlie Rose:

“We know he has mastery, we know he has virtuosity”…

DO they hear themselves?

5. lucid - 29 August 2008

Together, science and German destiny must come to power in the will to essence. And they will do so and only will do so, if we – teachers and students – on the one hand, expose science to its innermost necessity and, on the other hand, are able to stand our ground while German destiny is in its most extreme distress.

6. lucid - 29 August 2008

thanx mcat… I spent years trying to explain to my mentor, Johannes Fritsche, that American politics were fast approaching the philosophies of Scheler and Heidegger, and that the groundwork was deep within the American experience. Alas, he could never understand that, teaching in NY, at the New School – the space for escaping European intellectuals of a leftist bent in the 1930’s.

He couldn’t see how this country could become fascist. He didn’t know it, but his books predicted it exactly, even if they only indexed our fall…

7. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

Kos time to fess up, donate! (12+ / 0-)

what else do you want?

“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.” — Mahatma Gandhi

by IamTheJudge on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:41:50 PM PDT


Do you really think (4+ / 0-)

that my role in this fight is limited to money?

by kos on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:52:45 PM PDT


8. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

I guess this is an example of those “progressive values” kos was going on about.

9. lucid - 29 August 2008

I always wanted to do a Heidegger diary at Dkos… juxtaposing the highlights of the ‘Philosopher of the Reich’ with the everyday political vomit of mainstream democratic politics… I even wanted to do a follow up on how Heidegger’s notion of historical destiny was the most clear definition of Zionism [a voice wildly claimed by many conservative Jews desiring a similar separatism, to this day]… And here I never could never understand why Hannah Arendt was his lover…

10. lucid - 29 August 2008

There is one thing he is dead right about wrt science though – it is still cultural and whatever goals we set for it as a culture will be the goals that are met. No more, no less.

11. cad - 29 August 2008

Do you really think (4+ / 0-)

that my role in this fight is limited to money?

by kos on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:52:45 PM PDT

Oh the irony!

12. baypraire - 29 August 2008

fight club redux

Why Did Peeder Ban Denali?
by Shadowthief

oh lookie! a blog-clown is threatening to leave if he doesn’t receive satisfaction. does he really think a single soul would be upset if he disappears into the mists?

good god no.

13. lucid - 29 August 2008

um… can I borrow your $70,000 piano tomorrow to cut this great song idea I’ve been batting around?

14. lucid - 29 August 2008

Another classic:

An old story was told among the Greeks that Prometheus had been the first philosopher. Aeschylus has this Prometheus utter a saying that expresses the essence of knowing:

τέχυη δάυάγκης άσϑєυєστέρα μακρώ(Prom. 514, ed. Wil).

“Knowing, however, is far weaker than necessity.” That means that all knowing about things has always already been surrendered to the predominance of destiny and fails before it.

Um… no Martin. And if you’d ever read Prometheus you’d know better. Actual text:

“I [Prometheus] must bear my allotted doom [to be chained to a mountain] as lightly as I can, knowing that the might of Necessity (anankê) permits no resistance.”

Text further on completely undermining your idea of ‘necessity’ ananke.

“Prometheus : Not in this way is Moira (Fate), who brings all to fulfillment, destined to complete this course. Only when I have been bent by pangs and tortures infinite am I to escape my bondage. Skill is weaker by far than Ananke (Necessity).
Chorus : Who then is the helmsman of Ananke (Necessity)?
Prometheus : The three-shaped (trimorphoi) Moirai (Fates) and mindful (mnêmones) Erinyes (Furies).
Chorus : Can it be that Zeus has less power than they do?
Prometheus : Yes, in that even he cannot escape what is foretold.
Chorus : Why, what is fated for Zeus except to hold eternal sway?
Prometheus : This you must not learn yet; do not be over-eager.
Chorus : It is some solemn secret, surely, that you enshroud in mystery.

‘Knowledge’, Martin, refers to the moirai – the fundamental idea of equality in the Greek Cosmos which overturns ananke – even when it involves a fucking god…

Learn your damn Greek cosmology before you spout your Nazi shit…

15. lucid - 29 August 2008

Actually, in rereading this, this is what he is translating, badly “Skill is weaker by far than Ananke (Necessity).” It’s not even ‘knowledge’, it’s ‘techne’ – technical skill… god dammit he was such an idiot… why he has had so much influence on the world really pisses me off.

16. lucid - 29 August 2008

OK – I need to go to bed… but I think Joe Scarborough just explained my vote for McKinney this morning, for all the pwogs to hear. He just said, in awe of the Obama speech, “this is not the Democratic Party of 1984″… No shit Joe. That’s why I’m not a Democrat anymore.

17. NYCO - 29 August 2008

I missed History last night. While History was happening, I was lying quietly in my bed, reading a book.

I’m History’s designated driver. Well, someone’s got to do it.

18. marisacat - 29 August 2008

LA Times Blogs:

“Daytime talk show diva and billionaire businesswoman Oprah Winfrey, who played a crucial early primary role in raising the prominence of her fellow Chicagoan Barack Obama, was so moved by her man’s Democratic acceptance speech Thursday night that she cried off her false eyelashes.”

19. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 August 2008

Interesting point on the Heidegger. It had never occurred to me, but then again my professors hated him and kinda glossed over his stuff.

You gave me something to think about, and I think you’re onto something.

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 August 2008

Oh, and thanks to our hostess for sending me the comment from the last thread.

21. marisacat - 29 August 2008


well oprah was def a drinker last night… (via Ben Smith)

The pool reporter, Anne Korblut, also ran into Oprah Winfrey at the stadium.

She looked stunned and emotional, as if the day had overwhelmed her, Kornblut writes.

“I’ve never experienced anything like that,” she said. “I think it was anything anyone could ever expect.”

“I woke up this morning, and I went to google, and I googled the entire Martin Luther King speech because, like most Americans, I listen listen to the ‘I have a dream’ part. And in the earlier part of the speech, he talks about the promise of democracy. And I think today that promise was fulfilled in a way that I never imagined in my lifetime. What I saw with Barack Obama was something that was transcendent and, I felt, transformational for me as a human being and for this country. And I only pray in the deepest part of my being that America will rise to this moment,” she said.

The Democrats plan to walk away from so much, merely by running ObamaRama. He restored Democracy, to the order of none other than MLK.

LOL It got her to hear the whole 1963 speech, so I guess that is movement.

22. NYCO - 29 August 2008

Paterson doesn’t seem to be fully on board the Obama train.

Paterson’s going to be an interesting guy to watch in the Obama era, if indeed there is one. He’s a legislator who’s been thrust without fanfare into a nearly impossible governing job he probably wouldn’t have sought himself, watching a low-experience black legislator rising into the “ultimate” governorship that has been coveted since day one. He’s a creature of the New York establishment (or the Harlem establishment) who naturally backed Clinton. Unlike Deval Patrick, he’s not supplying material for Obama’s speeches.

Paterson is everything that Obama isn’t — spontaneous (he has to be – he can’t read a teleprompter), a people person, and also not averse to complaining about subtle racism. Nobody really notices him, and I think he likes it that way, but also doesn’t like it. He can be very sharp tongued underneath the wittiness. But he’s of a different generation than Jesse Jackson and doesn’t even have to battle much silliness coming from those aging giants because his father, Basil Paterson, was a prominent figure, but not a civil rights giant.

Paterson’s main cry right now, which I don’t see changing any time soon, is demanding why the federal government won’t help the states more. That’s not likely to change with a President Obama and in fact the cries may even intensify. I am fascinated to know what will happen, what sparks will fly, when a black man is president and has to confront the expectations and demands and even the ambitions of a black governor (who’s not his ally) in charge of a state that still has a considerable political establishment and of course, considerable financial clout.

In another way that’s why Hillary’s mention of Harriet Tubman was so interesting too (despite, as reports indicate, Tubman didn’t actually say those words attributed to her; they are commonly but mistakenly put in Tubman’s mouth by later biographers). Her New York shout-outs were amazing and the way she targeted that at women, African Americans and her home constituency (through Tubman) were extraordinarily skillful oratory. She probably just won another Senate term on that speech right there. Her Upstate constituents, especially those in the heart of areas most resistant to her (Auburn, Tubman’s home), will remember that, especially since they are trying to get federal funding for projects relating to Tubman.

It’s quite a transformation for someone who was widely seen as a carpetbagger. If she wants to stand again for re-election I think she will have no trouble at all.

23. NYCO - 29 August 2008

Forgot to include the relevant link about Paterson and Obama: Link to City Room Blogs at NYT

Scroll down for the earlier report.

24. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Thanks for that NYCO

maybe I am missing something but Paterson comes thru over and over as an actual independent. And a survivor.

One fo the things that really bothers me about Obama (not to compare as black pols, but as pols, esp as years of the Clintons flailing bout is recent and painful) is that when challenged on anything he is personally nervous abut, frm flag pins to Ayers, he almost faints in place. Then he dissembles, badly, then too often the right cheek facial tic appears… Does not augur well.

Paterson is the opposite. And he is refreshingly self deprecating without being corny AND strong at once. Interesting combo.

He is very adept.

25. marisacat - 29 August 2008

well the pundits are tracking a private plane winging in from Alaska to Dayton.

Romney and Pawlenty seem to say they are out. So, Palin?

From interviews I have seen with her, she is very effective on TV. Very.

26. marisacat - 29 August 2008

LOL Hold the confetti: Palin in Alaska.

27. wilfred - 29 August 2008

Andrea Mitchell just said “It was one of the great speeches of modern history”. Peggy Noonan dissed it completely 30 seconds before that just after Scarborough said Hillary’s speech was only mediocre. It’s all making me laugh, more like a Rorschach drawing.

Biden would be jumping for joy with Palin, he could treat her with kid gloves while using McCain as the ultimate punching bag. They say Palin is unveiling something at the Mint in Alaska today.

I think maybe Tel Aviv’s own Joementum Lieberman or Tommy “Orange Alert” Ridge?

28. marisacat - 29 August 2008

I could see Lieberman. Easily, as McC makes a big play for Independents.. and remnants of moderate R.

And what shall the Democrats say?

Again tho, a big fat smelly SENATE SCREW. Elect the dmaned horse.

29. wilfred - 29 August 2008

MSNBC now reporting that someone was told it was Palin. She has 5 kids (one with Downs syndrome), a huge pro-lifer and her big push is for oil drilling, anywhere and everywhere.

30. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Unfortunately drilling has become tricky. Reports this am (I read headlines, but did not have time for the actual article) that SANTA BARBARA is weakening on drilling. I don’t see it happening but I see lots of approving rhetoric, for a long time.

Even months ago, polling for softening public opinon to drilling was appearing out here. Very problematical.

31. wilfred - 29 August 2008

LOL, CNBC just played a clip of Palin looking like Tina Fey on an SNL skit. She said “First someone would have to tell me exactly what a VP does”. It made me laugh out loud, the commentators had that deer in the headlights look as if Dan Quayle had returned.

Two of her 5 kids are named Track and Trig, she’s married to a native american oilman.

32. wilfred - 29 August 2008

LOL, even better, Palin was the former “ethics chairman of an Alaskan oil and gas commission”. Talk about an oxymoron!

33. marisacat - 29 August 2008

It sounds like it is Palin, second plane (belonging to McC bundler), from Anchorage to Dayton via Flagstaff… and her parents have been told to listen to the radio this morning.

34. marisacat - 29 August 2008

32 yeah but she smacked dwn Murkowski and I think she would play well in parts of the West.

None of thse peopl, either side, works for me. IMO Ob’s job was to agree to at least three fo the offered UNMODERATED debates with McCain and ACE THEM. I’d like ot think Ob is working on debate prep but I doubt it. IIRC the ABC debate that spooked him, imo, was in APRIL.

Outta practice.

35. wilfred - 29 August 2008

Two years ago Palin was the mayor of Moose Jaw (kidding, some town that sounds about like it) and she may now the choice to be the VP of the US behind the oldest candidate for President, a man who reached the top of his game many years ago? Hubris and bad judgement to say the least. And I thought Pawlenty was a weak choice….

Palin fits perfectly in the awful VP lineup of Quayle, Lieberman and Cheney.

36. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Toss in Spiro.

Why do these people win?

37. marisacat - 29 August 2008

NBC confrims

It’s Palin

38. wilfred - 29 August 2008

How could I ever forget Spiro! I named my dog Spiro in high school after him because it made me laugh. I named my labrador Lola after Madonna’s daughter (who we just put down 2 weeks ago, how i miss her!). I have a quirky sense of humor when naming my dogs.

LOL, the Dow just plunged 40 points on the announcement.

39. marisacat - 29 August 2008

oh I am sorry about Lola. It is so hard. Too hard.

40. wilfred - 29 August 2008

Thanks, she was the sweetest dog in the world. We knew we wouldn’t have her for a long time as she was 5 when we got her (the pound told us they were going to put her down that night because no one wanted an ‘older dog’). She was a gift from start to finish.

41. wilfred - 29 August 2008

MSNBC says Palin is facing a state investigation. You’d think they would elaborate a bit.

42. marisacat - 29 August 2008

the pound told us they were going to put her down that night becaus

ugh we have a city wide no kill policy… A strong leader at the SPCA here got it thru, about 25 years ago.

43. wilfred - 29 August 2008

one of many reasons why SFO will always be a cooler city than LA.

44. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Well I dunno… it ws Armanino at SPCA, he challenged a will that stated a woman’s dog was to be put down upon her death. Went to court and won and pushed the policy from that…

45. marisacat - 29 August 2008

From the “con” list at Ambinder

An ongoing ethics investigation (although she was punishing someone accused of domestic violence.)

46. wilfred - 29 August 2008

From TPM:

Palin is in the midst of a reasonably serious scandal in her home state. Her brother-in-law is a state trooper who is in the midst of an ugly custody battle with her sister. And she’s accused of getting the state police to fire him.

47. JJB - 29 August 2008

Well, there goes the “Obama is too inexperienced to be POTUS” meme. Who could now recite that with a straight face?

These Veep selections have to represent the lowest total of Electoral Collge votes added to the ticket in modern US history. Each represents a state that has the minimum of 3. If not for Rhode Island, they’d also represent the largest and smallest states in terms of area.

Very curious choice. Obviously, they’ve made a decision to go after disenchanted female Hillary voters. I guess Liddy Dole being the same age as McCain leaves her out of consideration, and KB Hutchison is getting up there in years too (she’s now 65). They can also boast about Palin having that all-important “executive experience,” though I suspect that being governor of Alaska is a less demanding job than, say, being the County Executive or District Attorney of a county located just outside one of our larger cities.

Perhaps there are reasons not immediately apparent to me as to why she’s a great choice. Maybe she’s an avid hunter who guts caribou with her teeth, or something similarly colorful (like a woman in a Howard Hawks film) that will win over the Angry White Male voters who may be initially turned off by this choice.

Maybe the GOP is simply desperate to hang on to Alaska, there have been rumblings that Ted Stevens’ legal problems are liable to cost them the state this year.

48. JJB - 29 August 2008

Here’s the NY Times story about it. Apparently, she is a very serious sop to the Christian Right:

In choosing Ms. Palin — a 44-year-old conservative Christian and self-described “hockey mom” who has been governor for less than two years — the McCain campaign reached far outside the Washington Beltway in an election in which the Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama, is running on a platform of change.

The selection amounted to a gamble that an infusion of new leadership — and the novelty of the Republican Party’s first female candidate for vice president — would more than compensate for the risk that Ms. Palin could undercut one of the McCain campaign’s central arguments, its claim that Mr. Obama is too inexperienced to be president.

Moreover, the choice of Ms. Palin is in stark contrast to the recent selection of the Democratic vice presidential nominee Senator Joseph R. Biden R. of Delaware, a respected veteran lawmaker who is chairman of Foreign Relations Committee.

But Ms. Palin ran as a change agent when she was elected as governor of Alaska in 2006, and in a move that might have appealed to Mr. McCain, she took intense criticism from members of her own party for turning the spotlight on the failures of Alaska Republicans, some of whom had been beset by corruption scandals.

She opposes abortion rights, which could help pacify social conservatives in a party whose members were wary as rumors swirled that Mr. McCain might pick a running mate who supports those rights. But she differs with Mr. McCain on a controversial environmental issue that centers on her home state: she supports drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve. Mr. McCain’s opposition to drilling — even after he changed positions and began advocating for off-shore oil drilling — has upset many Republicans.. . . Social conservatives were relieved and highly pleased.

“They’re beyond ecstatic,” said Ralph Reed, the former head of the Christian Coalition. “This is a home run. She is a reformer governor who is solidly pro-life and a person of deep Christian faith. And she is really one of the bright shining new stars in the Republican firmament.”

Ms. Palin is known to conservatives for choosing not to have an abortion after learning two years ago that she was carrying a child with Down’s syndrome. “It is almost impossible to exaggerate how important that is to the conservative faith community,” Mr. Reed said.


The choice of Ms. Palin was reminiscent of George H. W. Bush’s selection of Dan Quayle, a young United States senator, as his running mate in 1988. The media and most in the Republican Party were caught unaware by the announcement of a figure relatively unknown outside Indiana.

Similarly, several of Mr. McCain’s outside advisers reacted with bewilderment that Ms. Palin was the choice, and one said that it would undercut one of Mr. McCain’s central criticisms of Senator Obama — that he is too inexperienced to be commander in chief.

“While it’s a dramatic and interesting choice, it would make the argument he’s making difficult to make,” said the adviser, who is close to the campaign.

This is a huge gamble. Is she Dan Quayle with ovaries? Time will tell.

She’s been governor for just over a year-and-a-half, precisely the amount of time that Spiro Agnew had been governor when Nixon chose him as his running mate 40 years ago.

49. wilfred - 29 August 2008

Obviously, they’ve made a decision to go after disenchanted female Hillary voters.

They just had Hillary supporter Debbie Wasserman-Shultz on and she said “I know Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton” and then launched into a tirade about Palin being unprepared for the office and unethical. She was so vociferous Andrea Mitchell didn’t know what to do. It was a riot.

50. marisacat - 29 August 2008

They better line up the women to attack her, because using CLyburn and Salazar right out of the gate was not smart.

She is a member of Feminists for Life (via TImesonline)

I hope this blows wide open and the lot of them go at each other, hammer and tongs.

One of the bigger fictions around is that the Dem party is th eleast bit pro women or pro choice.

51. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Eskimo husband. Well that is what they are saying…. in the oil biz.

52. wilfred - 29 August 2008

They better line up the women to attack her, because using CLyburn and Salazar right out of the gate was not smart.

It will be interesting to see if Ferraro helps out after all the hooplah. I can’t imagine Hillary won’t be on board to do her stuff and you know Boxer and Pelosi and will be out in force.

It sounds like alot of moderate R’s are not happy about the party swinging to the far right yet again. I smell the porky fingers of Turdblossom behind all of this.

53. marisacat - 29 August 2008

why woudl Ferraro bother?

Clyburn slammed Palin as the “disaster” that Ferraro was.

54. marisacat - 29 August 2008

People should try to remember that Jackie Kennedy along with many other Kennedy stalwarts voted for John Anderson in 80.

55. JJB - 29 August 2008


I suspect Ms. Mitchell’s reaction may have had a lot to do with being in complete agreement with Ms. W-S. Someone like her is probably horrified at McCain’s choice, and not only because she’s no doubt a dyed-in-the-wool GOPerative.

The more I think about this, the more I think it’s a colossal mistake. McCain just threw away several months and god only knows how many millions of dollars worth of his “Obama Is Too Inexperienced” propaganda. Now, they’re at best back to square one w/r/t trashing him, possibly pushed back into negative territory.

56. wilfred - 29 August 2008

The Dems are nuts if they don’t frame this as Karl Rove/John McCain throwing a Hail Mary pass.

Sad to say, yet another American election that comes down to the Neocon Republicans vs. the 60’s northeastern Republicans.

57. JJB - 29 August 2008

Addendum to no. 48,

On second thought (and obviously this is very early in the game), maybe it’s going to be Tom Eagleton or more recently Harriet Miers all over again.

Here’s the Obama campaign’s response:

Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain’s commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush’s failed economic policies — that’s not the change we need, it’s just more of the same.

58. NYCO - 29 August 2008

Like I said… flies, flying out the open half of a half open window.

Or not.

59. JJB - 29 August 2008

I see over at Salon that Palin’s oldest son is scheduled to be sent to Iraq this autumn, just as Biden’s son is due to be sent there (next spring, I believe).

60. marisacat - 29 August 2008

NONE of these peopel work for me, but the R will sell palin as domestic issues/reformer. And they do hve selling points. Look the Dems sold Biden on get up stand up and take the damned train.

I know I lie awake at night and thinnk the nation is in good hands with Biden.

We are so screwed.

61. marisacat - 29 August 2008

I don’t have the detials but they will push that windfall profits move against oil companies.. push it hard.

Dismissing the state security detail (she ciarries apparently) and sold Murkowski plane that the state bought him.

Not anyone i care for, but they can sell her.

62. marisacat - 29 August 2008

steelworkers union.


63. wilfred - 29 August 2008

Mark my words, Tina Fey will be playing her next month on Saturday Night Live. They’ll have a field day.

Can’t wait to see if the Creationist rumor is verified.

64. JJB - 29 August 2008

Just saw this Andrea Mitchell quote over at Duncan Black’s (occasionaly useful for things other than his unintentional self-parody):

“The campaign has just given up the experience argument.”

If she’s saying it, it’s being said all over DC by powerful people, including ones who work at Foggy Bottom, the Pentagon, the Capitol, and the White House.

Not to mention all along K Street.

And they don’t mean to imply they think it’s a brilliant stroke.

65. wilfred - 29 August 2008

LOL, Dow is now down 140 points, most of it since McCain’s announcement.

by the way, Alaska only has 700k residents (even Delaware has more).

66. ms_xeno - 29 August 2008

Re: #49:

I think it’s more like Palin is a taunt to pro-choice woman. McCain isn’t courting women, he’s baiting them, (the pro-choice women in his own party;they do exist– as much as these I-think-largely-fabricated disaffected Hilary democrats) much as does Obama with his endless cozying up to evangelicals. This shit has gone on for years now with large segments of the base: Nothing but protracted games of “I-Dare-You-To-Walk.” Sure I’m a violent, exploiting asshole who beats you, but you’re nothing. I’m as good as it gets, Bitch. Nobody else will want you if you leave.

Just once, I’d like to see the baiters get what they deserve. Just once, I’d like to see the mass walk-out that they’ve so richly deserved for so long.

67. JJB - 29 August 2008

According to wikipedia, Alaska’s population is approximately 683,000, which means it has just a fraction more than 1 person per square mile in density. So Delaware does have it beat by about 150,000 people.

Just remembered that the Veep who ends up POTUS at the end of “Advise and Consent” (movie version anyway, have never read the book) was a former Delaware governor who ended up VP as a compromise candidate for a sickly president seeking re-election. Lew Ayres did a very good job in the role. Seems an appropriate tangential memory today.

68. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Not to worry!

She is beng attacked as “jsut ovaries”.

Well does that make Biden “just a prick”?

69. JJB - 29 August 2008

Josh Marshall’s site is, for once, fun today. There’s a clip of some FOX News idiot (Steve Doocy) saying that Palin “knows about international relations because she is right up there in Alaska, right next door to Russia” (people will say anything to keep cashing those big paychecks).

There’s also a screen capture of McCain and Palin in public together for the first time. They look like a grumpy, rich geezer and his latest trophy wife.

70. marisacat - 29 August 2008

49 – 66

Would that Democrats stopped invoking Roe v Wade. We don’t lve under Roe, we live under CASEY, from ’92 and more recently we live under a medical procedure bing FEDERALLY banned.

Here si teh problme, obama may not pick an Alito, but he will pick a Kennedy. Who falls more and more under the sway of Roberts, it was palpable in the oral rgument in Cathcart/PPFA vs Clemente (which resulted in the federally banned medical procedure, mostly used in MID TERM).

Sp the Democrats should STFU about Roe. When they strip birth control funding from the latest big money bill

71. JJB - 29 August 2008

68, MCat,

If you’re referring to the Obama camp’s statement, I think it was that she brings some “estrogen to the ticket.”

Apparently, she is an Intelligent Design booster.

72. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

So much for putting the gender wars to beddie-bye in this election, eh?

Hahaha. A commentator on Fox just said that he well recalls how John McCain likes nothing better than going to Vegas to play craps, and Palin is his latest roll of the dice.

73. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Apparently, she is an Intelligent Design booster.

I am not FOR her. Neither am I for Ob/Bi

I see how they can sell her.

74. JJB - 29 August 2008

BTW, I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned the terrific stuff Chris Floyd has up about his disgust with the Joe Biden selection, but it’s definitely worth looking at. As is this piece CF links to, which documents how Biden went on Press The Meat only last year and recited a long list of discredited BushCo. talking points rationalizing his support for the Iraq war.

75. NYCO - 29 August 2008

She is beng attacked as “jsut ovaries”.

Well does that make Biden “just a prick”?

BWAHHHHH! Good one, Marisacat.

76. marisacat - 29 August 2008


There has beena slew of callers to KGO and Ronn Owens (9 -Noon slsot) opened that line of attack.A direct quote. All downhill since then.

77. ms_xeno - 29 August 2008

…When they strip birth control funding from the latest big money bill.

Crank out some fresh trooper fetuses for Obama/Biden, you lazy little bitches. Those 72,000 bits of shiny new cannon fodder aren’t just going to grow themselves, you know.

78. marisacat - 29 August 2008


I ahd not caught up to CF, but some authors over at Counterpunch have his wildely divergent quotes. Across the years.

He is REALLY bad on war, facilitator par excellence then bitcher and moaner. Then he sells it again.

79. NYCO - 29 August 2008

Contemplating a good bumper sticker for 2010… Don’t Blame Me… I Didn’t Vote For Any Of ‘Em

80. NYCO - 29 August 2008

Seriously, this misstep from McCain is so huge, I am expecting an even bigger fuckup from the Obama campaign before it’s all over. Because neither side seems to know when to let well enough alone.

81. wilfred - 29 August 2008

#69 It’s not only Doocey from Fox saying that crap about Palin’s foreign policy experience because she lives ‘next door’ to Russia, Andrea Mitchell just babbled the same shit.

Someone on CNN had a good one about McCain being wrong about picking his own Hillary. It was something like ‘you can’t just change skirts” and have people follow, as if all women were interchangeable.

82. ms_xeno - 29 August 2008

#79: Go for it, NYCO. There’s an even bigger market for those now than in 2004 or 2000, which is really astonishing when you think about it.

Personally I don’t give a crap about Palin or her fans or detractors. Mostly I’m just looking forward to reading supervixen’s/hrh’s take when she finds time to visit. I probably won’t agree with all of it, but I’d still read her over Dowd and the rest any day.

83. NYCO - 29 August 2008

Speaking of voting… I’ve been voting since I was 20 years old. Proudly cast my first losing vote for Dukakis. And I’ve come back to vote every year since, even on off-years, even for dogcatcher elections.

Know what? I’m taking this year off.

I mean, maybe the problem is me. Maybe it’s been my one vote screwing everything up for the last two decades. I mean, if my vote is soooo important that democracy cannot do without it, can the reverse not be true, that my one vote is screwing up our democracy? Hey — if you never stop to think that maybe you’re part of the problem, chances are, you are part of the problem.

84. ms_xeno - 29 August 2008


I’m amazed in retrospect that 1988 didn’t turn me off voting forever, or at least off Democrats forever. There I was in a huge mass of other true believers, cheering on that worthless sop Dukkakis like he could poop diamonds and piss champagne.

Oh, well. Live and learn.

85. marisacat - 29 August 2008

sad to say I remember many speeches where ob sold his few years in Indonesia as valuable experience. I am nto opposed to that idea (at all), but it showed the thinness of the bio to have to SELL it.

86. marisacat - 29 August 2008

88 was a big turning point. It really was. The party solidifed their love for bloodless technocrats. Now they have a technocrat served up, but one who emotes. Jesusing. I so wish he had a pulpit, a real one, and did nto want to leave it.

Gets old.

87. JJB - 29 August 2008

Here is the headline of Charles Krauthammer’s latest piece of bloviation, which appears just today:

The Democrats anoint a stranger in Obama

Charles, the Fates are mocking you! Time to wheel yourself off to whatever Israeli colonial settlement you plan to retire to, and spend the rest of your life in dignified silence.

88. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

Fox took a break to discuss Obama’s likely choice for a hypo-allergenic presidential pooch. Much mirth about the possibility of a poodle in the WH.

Doesn’t bode well for their confidence in McCain’s ultra-maverick choice for veepessa.

BTW, it seems to me that the mother of a child with Down Syndrome is a fairly risky standard-bearer for the pro-life Armies of Gosh.

89. wilfred - 29 August 2008

I recommend everyone take a look at Josh Marshall’s clip from the local Alaska coverage on the Troopergate scandal about Palin. She comes off as just another lying crook. It looks pretty cut and dry, I wonder who the R’s will buy off to fix this for her.

90. marisacat - 29 August 2008


well I ahve been voting since McGovern… tho not for Kerry nor to re elect Bill… and certainly NOT voting this go round. And possibly not again at teh Fed level.

it is too gone.

91. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Ronn Owen, She’s a MILF.

This is going so well.

92. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

This will get the microscope treatment, no doubt: Sarah Palin and Wasilla Sports Complex land deal.

93. JJB - 29 August 2008

wilfred, no. 89,

Interesting clip, especially as it runs almost 5 minutes, and they actually run 10-30 second clips of people talking, as opposed to the 2-3 second sound bites you get everywhere else on news shows.

She’s reminding me of Jeanine Pirro, the hyperambitious former DA of Westchester County (NY) who basically self-immolated when she tried to run for the GOP nomination to oppose Hillary two years ago. She was such a disaster that the state GOP honchos forced her to run for State AG instead, in which race Andrew Cuomo trounced her.

94. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

Can’t get the clip to work, here. Wonder if KTVA/CBS had it disabled?

95. JJB - 29 August 2008

IB, no. 94,

I just tried it and it worked fine.

96. wilfred - 29 August 2008

IB, try this YouTube URL for the clip:

97. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

95 – Must be me then. Will try a Firefox reboot.

98. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

63. Mark my words, Tina Fey will be playing her next month on Saturday Night Live. They’ll have a field day.

That was my first thought when I saw her: Tina Fey

Sarah Who?

Some Repub was just going on about how she has more experience than Obamalama and made the point very clear that the Obama camp shouldn’t be criticizing this woman. Woohoo. Popcorn.

99. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

Reboot worked for the YouTube link, thanks.

100. JJB - 29 August 2008

Just watched a video of McCain and Palin on the WaPo website (link to FP here). She’s an extremely effective public speaker, and favorably mentioned both Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary, going out of her way to praise the latter rather effusively. McCain, in introducing her, looked barely alive. By contrast, Dwight Eisenhower was wildly charismatic. Cindy was sitting in the first row behind them in the center seat, visible between them the whole time and looking a great deal like Joan Allen.

101. jam.fuse - 29 August 2008


Back in the day some prankster published a book entitled “The Wit and Wisdom of Spiro T. Agnew” — a slim volume consisting of completely blank pages.

Brings to mind the recent cover of Newsweak, ‘What Bush Got Right’.

Speaking painfully honestly (so to speak), i.e. as a slobbering heterosexual male, I must concur this Palin female is quite a looker. Although my first thought was of the Michael Palin — now that would have been an odd ticket.

okay, all you adults can continue talking…

102. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

A couple of old Biden quotes from my place over a couple of years:

And, when Joe Biden arrogantly mocked [Nir] Rosen’s testimony, he gave this response:

BIDEN: Based on what you’ve said, there’s really no hope — we really should get the hell out of there right now. I mean, there’s nothing to do. Nothing.

ROSEN: As a journalist, I’m uncomfortable advising an imperialist power about how to be a more efficient imperialist power. And I don’t think that we’re there for the interest of the Iraqi people. I don’t think that’s ever been a motivation. […]

BIDEN: [If we withdraw], the good news is we wouldn’t be imperialists in Iraq, from your perspective.

ROSEN: Only elsewhere in the region. (laughter). … There’s no positive scenario in Iraq these days. Not every situation has a solution.

Yay imperialism.

And from May, 2006:

Appearing on CNN’s Situation Room on Thursday, Biden had this to say about the congressional vote on the Iraq war:

BLITZER: You said you haven’t made any mistakes.

Was it a mistake — and correct me if I’m wrong — that you voted for the resolution authorizing the president to go ahead with this war?

BIDEN: No. The mistake was thinking that they would have the competence to deal with it. If I had known how incompetent the civilians in this administration would be in conducting the war and its aftermath, I would have never voted for it.Had I been president, [sic] would have asked for the same authority that I voted to give the president.

103. marisacat - 29 August 2008

maybe she can add a cute story about being taught to land a right hook on certain types, as a wee child.

My advice for SNL is go on it and appear with Fey, which Hillary did. My take ahs been that Ob is far too tense to do htat with the harsh but accurate (loads of YOuTubes out there of non teleprompter events) caricature of him that SNL mounted.

LOL One R operative has said, “obama will find she is mroe than a ‘sweetie'”.

Someone hand all parties the hammer and tongs.

104. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

SNL cat fight between the Palin and Hillary impersonators. I can just imagine…

LOL One R operative has said, “obama will find she is mroe than a ’sweetie’”.


105. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

I’m kinda bummed out that it wasn’t Kathleen Harris. haha

106. lucid - 29 August 2008

Oh God, I’d have to gut myself if it had been Cruella…

107. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

Anchorage Daily News:

She recounted her personal and political history, stressing her conservative and maverick credentials, then made an apparently play for the female vote. She mentioned Geraldine Ferraro, the Democratic vice presidental candidate in 1984, and Sen. Hillary Clinton, who garnered 18 million primary votes in her unsuccessful run against Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination this year.

“It turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all,” Palin said.

What fun.

108. marisacat - 29 August 2008

And to think Crist got married…


109. JJB - 29 August 2008

W/r/t my earlier speculation about Gov. Palin’s possibly being a hunter, I learn from this story that indeed she is, albeit of moose, not caribou. No word on whether she guts them with her teeth.

110. lucid - 29 August 2008

No word on whether she guts them with her teeth.

I’m waiting for the photoshop of that image…

111. marisacat - 29 August 2008

she fishes and hunts, What a shock. And carries a weapon (dismissed the governor’s security detail(). NRA member.

I jsut don’t find that odd. Not my life, but I don’t care that it is hers..

112. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

Moose Jaw is sacred. Thou shalt not joke about Moose Jaw! 😛

113. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

But does she use a Swedish knife? Enquiring minds need to know.

114. marisacat - 29 August 2008

Federales are pushing a test case to the SC, over “fleeting” inadvertent expletive slip thrus

sigh. Yes let’s worry about that.

115. ms_xeno - 29 August 2008

#109: I’ll just be relieved if said imaged feature a fully-clothed Palin. the 21st Century is truly the age of irrevocably diminished expectations. And returns, I guess.

116. JJB - 29 August 2008

This is interesting, a Larry Kudlow interview (don’t know when it was conducted), in which she deflects a questions about Veep speculation by saying she’d like to know “what is it exactly that the Vice President does every day.” It comes at about the 2:50 mark. She also relates that she’s “workin’ real hard,” a phrase the current Bush has repeated ad nauseum over the years.

She certainly does like to drop her “G’s” at the end of words.

117. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

McClatchy: Palin’s first scandal began as family feud.

AlaskaPride (an apparently right-leaning “independent” blog) has several previous posts on Palin (nothing since Veep pick yet), including one with her Vogue cover.

118. marisacat - 29 August 2008

The quote from the Kudlow interviw cme up right away this am.. think it was a few months ago. This year anyway.

119. marisacat - 29 August 2008

think the Vogue cover, or at least one I landed on at the Kodiak Blog, is photoshopped.

120. JJB - 29 August 2008

They talk about her being one of the favorites along with Romney and Pawlenty for the Veep choice, so it must have been quite recent. They also discuss the investigation into her conduct, which I believe was only begun within the last 6 weeks.

121. Intermittent Bystander - 29 August 2008

114 – Does this count, ms_xeno? Vogue cover.

(Mighty high winds in the photo studio, I gotta say.)

122. ms_xeno - 29 August 2008

IB, not since the sexxxxxxxxeee Samantha Power glossies in Vanity Fair has–

Oh, fuck it. Got any of those mojitos left ?

123. marisacat - 29 August 2008

then the quote is this summer,

124. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

Standard RW reaction: “She’s hot!”

125. marisacat - 29 August 2008


LOL the general take… One mroe thing they can sell about her…

The Corner says the Hillary blogs are busy… fwiw. I foolowed a couple fo links but they were pass word protected and I could nto see a reason to register.

I gather Burton put out the first ”slam” take from obBi and Linda Douglass wrote the next, welcoming, one.

126. liberalcatnip - 29 August 2008

I woke up violently ill very early this am. I think I had binged a tad too much on changeyhopeyness by watching the convention and my body felt the intense urge to purge itself.

Either that or I ate something that didn’t agree with me. It’s a toss up but I’m going with the former.

127. aemd - 29 August 2008

Palin damn. ROFL, too much. Don’t know how it will work out come Nov but ya gotta at least give a nod to the McCain team for pullin’ the old fundie/family values rug out from under Joebama.


128. aemd - 29 August 2008

And a woman too. Damn. LOL. This will be a very entertainin’ election.

129. marisacat - 29 August 2008

nw thread……..


……………. 8) ……………….

130. NYCO - 29 August 2008

The Corner says the Hillary blogs are busy… fwiw. I foolowed a couple fo links but they were pass word protected and I could nto see a reason to register.

Well glory-f***in-hallelujah!

Somebody finally figured it out. That when you are serious about using the Internet as an organizing tool for you and your allies, you don’t just let everyone trample their muddy feet in.

But I guess disgruntled women would know that, because unlike disgruntled young white college-edumacated males, they actually have got powerful political enemies to worry about.

131. marisacat - 29 August 2008


one reason they know to lock it up, a bit anywawy, is probably to avoid the verbal feces that get thrown at them.

Yeah agree very smart. LOL Jonah Goldberg is reading away…

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