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oof! 5 September 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


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How many weeks of pro America? Three weeks of the Olympiads then a week each, first one gang then the next. I feel like i have been left out in the hot sun.

I am ready for drugs.

To the questions: what are we going to do? what are you doing?–I’m proud to report: not a damn thing, and as actively as I can. This is especially true in the realm of national politics. The Democratic Convention, with all its post-Kennedy raptures about worlds safe for democracy and men on the moon and chickens in every pot was bad enough, but I dare you to watch the vicious spectacle in St. Paul, the mewling chorus of creationist morons worshipping like Spielbergian Thuggees at the alter of destruction, and contemplate that they represent a full 50% of your countrymen, who haven’t even the decency to require circumspection from their empire of death, and tell me that what this nation–this world–needs is more elections.

Who is IOZ

Liquor would probably help.

Arthur Silber



1. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

maddie from the previous thread:

I have to say, I question Palin’s ability to deal with a special needs child while being VP. Now if she says her husband will raise the kids, she will hire someone else, etc… Fine. But a special needs child needs a full-time caregiver. Sorry, but that is just a fact. If she is going to try to sell me on some “I’m a Superwoman and can do it all” line, well, I call bullshit.

To my mind, this is inappropriate criticism. It’s the same as judging someone for having an abortion. It’s a variation on the “paternalistic” condemnation of women – the oh-so-common “maternalistic” condemnation, judging women’s personal choices and mothering abilities without knowing jackshit about their lives (from your comments, it appears you’ve been on the receiving end of this yourself).

As MCat says, let the women alone, let them choose for themselves. Palin seems to know what she’s doing. How far are we entitled to probe into her personal family life and choices? Would we do the same to a male candidate?

Now, if she tries to force every woman in the country to do what she’s doing, i.e., if she tries to make it illegal for women to abort Downs fetuses if that’s what they want to do, that is where I draw the line.

So instead of working ourselves up into a righteously indignant furor about her choice to be a full-time VP candidate while having a special-needs infant at home, let’s focus on her policies and see what the real problem is. Does anyone know what she proposes, if anything, regarding reproductive rights? Has she tried to ban anything while governor? The only time I’ve seen her speak on the subject was in that gubernatorial debate and her tack was that her personal choice would be to “choose life” – but she said nothing about the role of government in imposing this (non)choice on women.

If she’s going to be an anti-choice crusader, fine, let’s fight her on those terms. But her choice to be a Supermom or whatever is entirely hers. And if we don’t want conservatives condemning US for our family choices, we sure as hell can’t do it to them.

2. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

maddie again:

She pretty much epitomized “ball-breaking bitch” last night as I’ve understood the media and Republican’s definition of it over the past several years.

Well yeah, that’s what’s so great about it. It’s something to celebrate, not complain about.

But all I see on DKos and other such sites are Dems whining about how “mean” she was, and dragging out every demeaning sexist insult and stereotype to attack her with. (A lot of them did the same to Hillary.)

So they’re really no different from the right wing, at least when it comes to women.

It’s too bad.

3. NYCee - 5 September 2008

IOZ post – I agree that at this point, we do see how low we’ve slipped and it is fiercely ugly and breathtakingly stupid. The bottom of the port-o-potty is in sight.

On the one hand we have the miracle of the incarnation of HOPE/FAITH/CHANGE (the WORLD) to vote for. On the other, we have someone who I feel got lost on her way out of the SNL dressing room, ending up on the GOP stage to thunderous applause rather than laughter.

At the joke.

Stretching the thin skin ever thinner over the ugliness… when will it burst?

We have become a Cartoon.

4. NYCO - 5 September 2008

3. Eventually one has to stop paying such rapt attention to a circus and “decouple” from it. One has to start thinking they live in a territory occupied by a regime that is ultimately going to fail, and prepare accordingly. I know that sounds like an Idaho survivalist, but people have to get smarter about looking at America’s political subcultures and sub-institutions and decide which ones are more likely to soldier on without an effective federal government to back them up (at some future point). The federal government is a complete corporate enabler, but there are still *civic* institutions in this country (dysfunctional or non) that are trying to actually govern in the interests of their local humans. Most of them are severely compromised by corporate interests, but there’s still a “there” there.

5. NYCO - 5 September 2008

BTW, apropos of nothing, apparently there’s a special episode of Colbert on tonight (due to Labor Day?) and his guest will be David Paterson. Should be a riot.

6. wilfred - 5 September 2008

The Jobless rate just announced at 6.1%.
Everyone, do the Neocon dance!

7. marisacat - 5 September 2008


well I have been saying that some locales will survive, no question, the ones that are able. The Federal level is what it is. I don’t see it getting better and I see inevitable growth of the war industry and relentelss roll back of entitlements and other New Deal supports. The Feds need to drain off cash from the people to redirect as they see fit.

And, that certainly can be mirror’d at the local level. One thing Arnold has done is effectively destroy the state Workers Compensation system.

I read an admission the other day from none other than Artur Davis that there is no hope of an immigration reform bill in the 111th congress. The schedule of upcoming mid terms is just too tight politically. Such surprising news! Such change!

8. marisacat - 5 September 2008


The most interesting push back w/r/t Palin that I see around is at Weekly Standard, The Blog (not a real blog, no comments). I have only put up two links using it, the push back on the idea that she slashed Special Needs by 62%, when their sourced response indicates that reflects the outgoing Murkowski budget and she raised Sp Needs by 175% (they site several sources I snipped out info from Alaska Dept of Ed)

AND they had a longish reply to last Saturday’s Wapo piece on ‘TrooperGate, which I linked to. TrooperGate has too many parts and pieces for me to sort thru, there are some interesting facts that don’t reach chatter tho.

MSM and Dems use replies she made to a couple of Eagle Forum candidate check lists from when she ran for Gov. I have not landed on any refutation of what they represent (Ob just ditches his, saying “staffers” filled them out, whoops! what is that?). She is evanglical and hard core on abortion.

WS/The Blog has put up some indications she supports contraception but I would be leery til she indicates.

I did google around to see what is the status of Sex Ed in Alaska (hard to find much online and I put in only a little time) and put up a link that indicated as of a couple years ago they did, at least some districts and there seemed to be ongoing issues (fueled and supported by the hard core xtian groups) of whether parents can opt out. I hvae no idea where she really stands on that.

I am NOT defending her but I am interested in how political stories play out, and right now she is the most talked about and most maligned woman in America. And it is clear the R are reveling in it. At least out here in [supposed] “liberal” land issues of whose baby is whose are still on radio. And I am not shocked, LOL

Good luck to someone. May they all congeal.

9. marisacat - 5 September 2008

LOL No wonder he is on the trail…

NEW MICHAEL MOORE MOVIE BEFORE ELECTION – from release: ‘New Michael Moore flick before the election: ‘After 20 years of making groundbreaking films and setting box office records — from ‘Roger & Me’ to ‘Bowling for Columbine’ to ‘Sicko’ – Oscar-winning filmmaker Michael Moore has decided to thank his many fans by giving them a download of his newest film, ‘Slacker Uprising,’ for free. … ‘Slacker Uprising’ traces Michael Moore’s 62-city tour of the swing states during the 2004 Presidential election and records the thrilling — and frightening — response he received across the country. The 97-minute film will be available for a pristine, high-resolution, free download to any North American resident beginning on September 23. Anyone who wishes to sign up for the free download in advance may do so as of today by going to the website http://www.SlackerUprising.com.’

10. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

Obamalama in PA this am: “This is not a personality contest.”


11. NYCO - 5 September 2008

Joe Bruno may be gone from the NY legislature, but his quotability lives on.

Comparing Obama to Spitzer, Bruno reportedly told Republicans:

“Who was more articulate than (Spitzer)? Who was more charismatic … Who had the best Hollywood ads that money could buy? And you know what, for those of you in the press, don’t forget it. Articulate. Fancy. Dancey. Prancey. All those kinds of things that made him — 70 percent of the vote. Broke a record, OK? Why? Marketing. Selling. Think about it. Was that for real? Was it?”

12. marisacat - 5 September 2008

LOL Well it fell fast, real or unreal.

13. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

“New” politics update: one of MSNBC’s talking heads reported last nite that the McCain campaign has put out 15 “negative/contrast” ads in the past little while while the Obama camp put out 14.

“Change” you can believe in?

14. aemd - 5 September 2008

Picked this up via Huffypo. Cats hanging out. Enjoying the show. Instead of popcorn and beer, they prefer the pickin’s in the koi pond. Great pic. 🙂

15. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008


A dog had to have 13 golf balls removed from its stomach after eating them on walks around a Fife course.

Owner Chris Morrison had been taking five-year-old black labrador Oscar round the Pitreavie golf course in Dunfermline for several months.

He took Oscar to the vet after noticing a rattling sound coming from his pet’s stomach.

They then discovered that 13 balls – each weighing 45 grams – were lodged in his stomach.

16. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

14. Wow. Nice cats. No doubt that’s part of their world domination mission.

17. wilfred - 5 September 2008

Somebody needs to publicly remind the creepy Palin that Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a Governor too.

Sadly, in Fundie Fascist America they’ll all end up just screaming Chapter and Verse’s at the debates before long. Save me, indeed.

18. marisacat - 5 September 2008


I caught film thsi am of the bob cats and their take over. I think it is an excellent use/reclaim of uber over developed land. … 8) …

19. aemd - 5 September 2008

#15 LC. Yep, you know cats. World domination on the cheap. Foreclosures today, tomorrow the world.

#18 Ms Cat. I’d love to see that clip. Gotta thing for bobcats.

20. wilfred - 5 September 2008

LOL, news reporting that Todd Palin’s business partner has filed an emergency petition to have his divorce papers sealed.


21. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

Talk about the maligning of Palin – here’s a DKos diary that’s aremarkable example of the phenomenon:

I know you, Sarah Palin. I don’t have to know you personally, but your speech last night told me who you are.


I’ve sat next to you, and you’ve been my neighbor, and I’ve had to put up with since you live in my town. And I won’t let you ruin my country.

You see, there are lots like you out there. And I won’t stand for it anymore.

You’ve soured our school.
You are the PITA PTA president who drove us all from the PTA and left it a shallow organization because we couldn’t take your “me-first” attitude. You helicopter in when your children don’t get the teacher you wanted them to have. You take valuable teacher time by also second-guessing his teaching methods, the grades your children received, whether your child is challenged enough. You are the mother of the bullies in the school, demanding special attention for your children and dismissing the needs of others.

You’ve soured our kids’s sports teams.
You demand special attention for your kids when they arrive late for the practice. You scream foul when clearly your child was at fault. You demand game time for your kids. You demand your child play a position s/he is not ready for.

You’ve soured our neighborhood.
You’ve ruined the spirit of neighborliness on my block by not letting the kids “play through” your front yard. You wake me every Saturday morning with the sound of small horsepower engines revving in your driveway, ignoring the informal rules in our little neighborhood. You own the dog next door which gets into my yard, bites my dog, to which you reply “your dog is a sissy.”

You’ve soured our city.
You use your gender to get special attention from the men on the street, grocery store clerks, the phys ed teacher, and the town council. You barge into meetings unasked and unwanted and unprepared. You’ve been hired by shady developers to ruin our once-vibrant little town commercial area. It’s clear that you are ruining our city to build your next political move.

You bullied your way into every crack and crevice of my life

Wow. Unreal. All because she’s a woman. (I can’t see this diary being written about Pawlenty.)

22. CSTAR - 5 September 2008

# 17. Re Religious catering by parties.

The main political parties are corporate entities which differ from profit making firms or not-for-profit corps only in their business model. They stay in business by getting their politicians elected to public office; The parties channel funds, labor and other favors from political movements, special interest groups and corporations, but mainly the latter.

In this view, the parties aren’t “liberal” or “conservative” or “good” or “bad”. It It is true that the democratic party established a solid link with progressives largely as a result of the New Deal, which itself was a reactive move to preserve capitalism in the face of labor militancy. That link has been successfully worn away.

Both parties now to cater to religious movements, that’s where the money is in this country. Who’s to blame? Certainly in part, so-called progressive movements that have allowed themselves to be co-opted by the dem party. The most blatant example of this is daily kos, which is essentially a wholly owned subsidiary of the democratic party (that’s OK) claiming to be progressive (that’s not OK, misleading advertising).

23. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

Assume you’ve all heard about the GOP’s Googlin’ goof that put a giant photo of a middle school in California behind POWCain for his big acceptance speech last night? Name of the middle school: Walter Reed.

(Like Arthur Silber, I slept fitfully through the proceedings, but I’m glad to have the electric greenscreen mystery explained.)

24. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

21. Whine louder!


25. marisacat - 5 September 2008


Think I saw it on local ABC news this am… but I would expect it to turn up somewehre… it was not that thrilling, shot fo the street and the layout of the front and back of the house..the bakc of the house is probably what drew them… lotta space, sort of pinkish concrete.. adn a shot of the big cats similar to the still shot at LAT. Lounging… 😉

Loved how low key people were in Tuscany Hills about it…


Oh I am horrified at how the DP muscled its base to accept a genuflection to collection plate based fake religion in thsi country. And I am no more fond of the accepted mainstream religions, either. So lvoe to be led by TD Jakes (friend of ob, among so many) or the pantheon of R house pastors.

We are so skrewed.



Well talk radio in Liberal Land is saying she is “irresponsible” for not using bc, knowing she is at risk at her age for a Down Syndrome baby. I personally have no idea what she and her husband did or did not do. hell they (Down Symdrome children) pop out all over the place. Yes over 40 is at higher risk but most, the vast majority are born to women under 40. Go figure.

there is however a rumor out of DC that she will appear on Sunday show(s) this Sunday.

26. cad - 5 September 2008

The attacks on Palin are as justified as the attacks on Anita Bryant, of which Palin reminds me. It’s bullshit to attack her for raising a family and working, but not for her fundamentalist wacko positions, most of which are the real sexism against women, as steinem pointed out in her essay. Palin is bugfuck crazy and scary, a book banning snake handling Rapture beauty queen who could get real close to the nooklyur button. Fail.

27. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

26 – Steinem’s essay was a piece of trash – partisan political hackery. Oh right, Obama and Biden are big supporters of stay-at-home dads.

Palin is bugfuck crazy and scary, a book banning snake handling Rapture beauty queen who could get real close to the nooklyur button. Fail.

Sorry, but that’s just stupid. It’s exactly like the wingnuts raving about Hillary being a Communist lesbian who has her enemies killed. I mean, come on. Ooga Booga.

28. marisacat - 5 September 2008


This is the Steinme op [iece from the LAT. I linked to it a couple days ago and snipped the last two grafs which are beyond laughable.

And American women, who suffer more because of having two full-time jobs than from any other single injustice, finally have support on a national stage from male leaders who know that women can’t be equal outside the home until men are equal in it. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are campaigning on their belief that men should be, can be and want to be at home for their children.

This could be huge.

She also talks about Palin’s value to the patriarchy. Well with Democratic women in the senate who knuckled (after no fight I am sure) under and signed a public letter endorsing Casey in PA… LOL who is beloved of Democrats for Life, Tony Perkins at FotFamily AND The Corner… they’ve been very valuable to the patriarchy. The DP let’s us have a couple visible standard bearers… thinking we will fall for it forever.


29. wilfred - 5 September 2008

#27. Palin is:

A) a supporter of book banning
B) a Rapture believing Fundamentalist
C) a former beauty queen.
D) not qualified to be anywhere near the world’s largest nuclear arsenal.

Sorry, but that’s not “stupid” HRH, and it’s not factually incorrect. Whether you cared for the way it was stated is another matter. That statement you blockquoted was far more accurate than the Hillary slime you referred to.

30. CSTAR - 5 September 2008

I certainly don’t like Palindrome for Veep, but why does (C) disqualify her? And (D) though probably true, should be a conclusion not a premise.

31. wilfred - 5 September 2008

CSTAR, it was all a response to saying those things weren’t factual and C is a fact. You are right that D isn’t a provable fact though and hopefully we’ll never have to test it 🙂

32. NYCO - 5 September 2008

Barack Obama and Joe Biden are campaigning on their belief that men should be, can be and want to be at home for their children.


This seems like another example of 100 different people seeing 100 different things in this candidacy – whatever their heart desires. Weird.

33. marisacat - 5 September 2008

LOL how safe are those noooooooooooks in Pakistan. Talk about a country careening on possible instability, from within and without.

I really don’t worry any more about whose pinky is on the Big Ol USA!! USA!! set of Buttons, considering how things are going.

Learn to Love The Bomb is the only way!!

34. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008


A. this is factually incorrect – there is no evidence that Palin ever attempted to ban or censor any books, or intends to try to do so in the future.

B. I don’t care for her religion but then I don’t care for Obama’s either.

C. There is the obligatory sexist content that must be included in all criticisms of Palin.

D. Well who is, really? Is Obama?

So yeah, sorry to say – that was a stupid comment.

I’m sure there’s plenty to dislike and decry about Palin, but the truth is, at this point we know very little about her or her ideas – most of the frenzy about her is reflective of people’s prejudices rather than any actual fact. And the nastiness that’s coming out reveals a lot about those people.

Sullivan, for one, is freaking out the window, almost as bad as the rabid droolers on DKos.

35. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008


male leaders who know that women can’t be equal outside the home until men are equal in it.

I have no idea what that even means.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden are campaigning on their belief that men should be, can be and want to be at home for their children.

I must have missed that day on the campaign trail unless she’s referring to Obama slamming AA men for not ‘taking responsibility’ a la Cosby.

36. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

28 – Oh and let’s not forget all the pressure from the Dems to accept erstwhile Reagan Republican Jim Webb, he of “Women Can’t Fight”, as one of our Big Tough Wonderful Saviors.

That was a Great Moment in Democratic Feminism.

37. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

29. C) a former beauty queen.

Politics: only ugly wimmen need apply.

Seriously though, have you seen the swooning by wimmen (and some men) who have “fallen in love” with Obama and who drool over his looks? It’s embarrassing – or it ought to be.

38. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008


I really don’t worry any more about whose pinky is on the Big Ol USA!! USA!! set of Buttons, considering how things are going.

Yeah really. After eight years of Bush, it would be a great relief to have a moosehunting snakehandling lactating Pentecostal beauty queen in charge of the Suitcase.

Even if she does have a vagina, which is of course a serious consideration.

39. wilfred - 5 September 2008

We’ll have to agree to disagree HRH. According to the Palin primer on the front page of Slate today, Palin did seek to ban books that had (what she considered) ‘obscenities’ although she never accomplished it because of resistance.

And regardless of sexism or no sexism, she was a beauty queen which is all i was responding to. It’s a fact, not conjecture. I couldn’t give a flying crap about it but it wasn’t made up.

As far as people wigging out over her it is totally understandable to me because she is a very frightening prospect on the national ticket. The R’s are moving from Neocon to Fundamentalist and that is a very disturbing thing because that Party has won all but 2 national elections in the past 28 years. Serious stuff indeed.

40. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

Who knows what might happen if Joebama wakes up in a bad mood one day?

41. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

37, catnip: they did the same with Webb. There were several DKos females who crooned “I love him I love him I love him”, as if they were teens lusting after Donny Osmond (OK I date myself here – Justin Timberlake?).

FWIW, I can’t quite see the apparently overwhelming sexiness of Palin – she’s certainly attractive in a Midwestern-mom kind of way, but nothing that out of the ordinary. I guess she’s not my type. She gives a good speech, though.

42. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

A. this is factually incorrect – there is no evidence that Palin ever attempted to ban or censor any books, or intends to try to do so in the future.

See the “Word from Wasilla” link posted in the last thread, which includes a letter from Anne Kilkenny, one of the people who protested her attempt to fire the librarian:

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.


43. mattes - 5 September 2008

Confirmed. I am not a feminist.

44. marisacat - 5 September 2008

oh Sully is really happy he has a woman pinata to kick at [again,, he was so lonely wihtout Hillary] and his biggest thrill Krauthammer agrees with him. Which makes them bigger and better nuts than Sully’s enemies over at The Corner. Who are inconsequential nuts in Sully;s book. Surely anti-war Justin Raimondo can get in on this. They all lvoe to bash each other. The concsrvative men need to get a room!

Set it to music!!

LOL Giood luck to someone.

45. mattes - 5 September 2008

One question.

Can feminsts and non-feminist women be on speaking terms without insulting and hating each other?

46. aemd - 5 September 2008

#29 Obama

1) meets privately with religious leaders and promises MORE faith based pork.
2) goes to neocon central and swears fidelity.
3) loves him some anti-gay activist.
4) plays a shell game on NAFTA.
5) backpedals like the cheap whore he is on FISA.

It ain’t news that McCain/Palin are running on the Wingnut ticket. That is their base. The surprise is the Joeobama is trying to out wingnut them. On the QT, of course. Shhh, maybe the base won’t notice.

47. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

39 – here are the currently known facts related to the “book-banning” incident. At this point it appears the incident was more about Palin trying to push out the librarian. The “banning” was brought up as a hypothetical and no books were mentioned.

The long list of books that Palin supposedly wanted banned (including Harry Potter and many classics) that is circulating on the internet and hyped on Dkos is apparently only agitprop with no factual basis.

Serious stuff indeed.

Yes serious stuff that MUST involve the mention of her beauty-queen “status” and other gratuitous sexist slams including references to her promiscuity, her desire to be a manpleaser, her “chaotic” family life, etc. I’ve seen it all in the past couple of days.

48. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

41. I was more of a David Cassidy kinda gal.

she’s certainly attractive in a Midwestern-mom kind of way, but nothing that out of the ordinary.

I already said she looks like my sister so I have to tread carefully here. 🙂

49. marisacat - 5 September 2008

Bwn SMith did a post on the Kilkenny email, with the full text, at least as he recieved it.


50. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

45. Can feminsts and non-feminist women be on speaking terms without insulting and hating each other?

Yes. That, of course, begs the question: what is a “feminist”? I’m one, according to my own definition (“old-school”, I guess). Then again, that’s not a discussion I want to get into. I find it tiresome. Afaic, it’s pretty simple: if you’re for equal rights for women, you’re a feminist. That works for me, at least.

51. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

46. Ya, but Obama’s so dreamy! *swoon*

52. wilfred - 5 September 2008

#46 LOL, read #26, #27 and #29 so understand what #29 was about!

53. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

49 – that email is very provocative but the claims in it require independent verification.

54. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

Jack Cafferty’s wife died today. 😦

55. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

51. #46 LOL, read #26, #27 and #29 so understand what #29 was about!

We have to do math now? I’m outta here.

56. cad - 5 September 2008

Yes, Palin did try to ban books and fire the city librarian.


And frankly, that’s enough for me.

I know everybody sucks, they’re all awful, but Palin scares me. If you recall the 80’s, you would be scared too.

57. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

John McCain speech draws record TV ratings

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – A record 38.9 million U.S. TV viewers watched John McCain accept the Republican nomination for president on Thursday, slightly more than the 38.3 million people who tuned in for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s speech, Nielsen Media Research reported.

And he didn’t even have fancy columns! WTF?

58. wilfred - 5 September 2008

No LC, it implied that AEMD should stop commenting on people’s responses unless you’ve read the original posts. It just helps people not make errors as well as jump to wrong conclusions.

enjoy your Friday night.

59. wilfred - 5 September 2008

#56 Interesting because Variety reported last week that the Obama speech on Thursday night had 40 million. Wonder which numbers are correct?

60. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

57. I know. I was kidding. After forcing myself to watch the “fear fear fear doom doom doom” RNC this week, I think a bit of levity is in order.

61. marisacat - 5 September 2008

I’m interested that peopel are apparently more afraid of Palin than of McC. I see it as a pair.

On the oher hand we have so desperate wannabe Obama with long ago went to senate drool and senate maggot on the brain Biden. Which is a large part of the problem we have (drool and maggot).

A VERY conservative congress, both sides of the aisle… and they lead the American people on to think that new hires will be better. When they are just showing up to take over the corps and patronage that goes with each chair.

LOL a fine system.

62. marisacat - 5 September 2008


a lot fo numbers floating all over. One thing is sure, she outdrew drool and maggots.

63. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

60. I see it as a pair.

Right and although she may seem to be Cheney’s little sister, she doesn’t have the power that he does. (ie. He’s been firmly entrenched in the neocon movement for decades.) I doubt McCain plans to use her as his main advisor a la Bush/Cheney. That’s not saying McCain can;t do a tremendous amount of damage on his own…

64. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

Palin’s almost like a glorified “stand by your man” first lady who’ll just happen to have the VP title if they win.

65. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

61 – I’m interested that peopel are apparently more afraid of Palin than of McC.

That’s curious, isn’t it? Seeing as we know so little about her.

I can tell you that this incident has illuminated for me why Hillary excited such rage, hatred, fear and loathing amongst the right wing.

66. marisacat - 5 September 2008

BTW Cheney looking very ill.. saw him from Georgia or wherever he is waging war.. Very bad.

67. marisacat - 5 September 2008


well actually a wide swathe of people hated her. Far beyond her [cough] pay grade as a primary candidate, ex First Lady, etc.

68. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008
69. marisacat - 5 September 2008

I don’t think Afghanistan can ever get rid of us. Esp not with the possible incoming adminsitrations. The Great Hunt For Osama is a great excuse to refocus the war, and drown us in a sinkhole. And kill more people.

70. marisacat - 5 September 2008

This Week: Obama

Face the Nation: McCain

Meet the Press: Biden

Fox News Sunday: Obama’s Axelrod, McCain’s Davis.

Late Edition: Sens. Kyl, Boxer, Hutchison, Gov. Kaine, Obama adviser Gibbs

Plus: Fox News will air one-hour special documentary Saturday on Palin, interviewing her family, friends, colleagues.

71. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

68. What it would take to declare “victory” in Afghanistan is even more fuzzy than what it’s supposed to look like in Iraq. I have no idea how that war is going to end.

72. Heather-Rose Ryan - 5 September 2008

67 – I have nothing against hating Hillary as long as it’s for the right reasons. As I like to say (dusting off an old joke about Howard Cosell): misogyny is hating Hillary (or Palin) more than is necessary.

73. marisacat - 5 September 2008

oh I agree.. hate her all you wish. That being the generic “you”. I am not for them, have not been since April of ’93.

But I def caught the drfit when it was much bigger than Hillary and it ws pure hatred of women.

People miss how loose I really am about poltics, runs, attacks, slurs and slanders. Go for it. Blood in the alley.

But I do get it, when it is a bullseye between MY eyes.

74. marisacat - 5 September 2008


we will be some latter day version of the Soviets. No other hope. IMO On their side, 20 years on, massive rise in oil prices, and they are back in a BIG way.

Rasmussen shows Palin apprivals rising. 58% A pt higher than either Obama or McCain.


75. wilfred - 5 September 2008

Don’t know who to root for at the US Open, i love Safina and Williams. Just love great tennis.

Sexism and misogyny are so weird. I’ve met as many misogynistic women as men. It’s a complicated thing. I can understand the fear of the other much more than self-loathing.

My best girl friend in college taught me so much. One of her big things was ‘never trust a woman who basically doesn’t like other women’.

76. cad - 5 September 2008

The Palin story has been well-covered:

WASILLA — Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so.

According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go.

Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.


77. aemd - 5 September 2008

Sorry LC more math 😉

#57 Wilfred, I did read post #26, #27 and #29. Yeah, I if I work on it real hard like, cracks gum, maybe I can catch the drift of it. Wrinkles brow. Well golly, I’ll try so much harder to understand. Politics, like math, is so fucking hard. I’ll try to keep my place and not speak outta turn.

The nooklyur button crap is just more fuckin’ bullshit politics.

Palin is running to her base and Christ has she fired them up. You may find them repulsive, as do I, but that is the GOP game plan. VP nom as a lure to the base and attack dog. She wasn’t chosen to appeal to yellow dog democrats or social liberals. She meets the GOP base requirements. Wasn’t that what Biden was hailed as? An attack dog that appeals to the base so Obama could appear above the fray? Keep those hands clean? How’s that working out?

McCain has an uphill battle, working against the Bush clusterfuck of a legacy. He must turn out the GOP base to have a chance of winning. Palin gives him that opening. She is untested, unvetted and may backfire but at least she breathes some life to his stale campaign.

Obama has taken his base for granted and run to the hard right, sucking up to the GOP wingnut base. He has confused and alienated his base while McCain is hardening his. Bad move but the Democratic power players always take their base for granted.

Yeah, one of the top ticket items WILL get their fingers on that button.

Please fell free to ignore this post if I’m speaking outta place or beyond my level of understanding.

78. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

Btw, your banned books week starts Sept 27.

79. wilfred - 5 September 2008

Interesting observation about Cheney looking ill. I wonder what would happen if he had to abdicate his throne early?

80. marisacat - 5 September 2008

Cheney’s not going to abdicate. Unless he drops dead. I kind of doubt taht.

4 mos 3 weeks.


aemd out of moderation, sorry!!

81. marisacat - 5 September 2008

according to DeFrank in NYDaily News (he cites a poll) Christians and R women are retuning to McC. I’d link t but I closed the window hours ago… DeFrank’s reportng on her was critical, so I don’t get the idea he is pre orgasmic for her. But who knows.

No way to know if he can hold them, and just one poll. But…

She was a big big nod to the base. As Byron York said, they know who makes the calls and rings the dorbells and volunteers.

Wehn have the Democrats done somthing for the base? Biden?

82. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

Even if he did die, they wouldn’t tell anybody and they’d just drag him around like Weekend at Bernie’s. It’s not like anyone would notice anything different at this point.

83. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

I thought he couldn’t raise his arms above his shoulders (?)

84. wilfred - 5 September 2008

LOL….. ok……. one last time AEMD.
i wasn’t talking about any broad political ideas in my post. I simply saw one post here in a blockquote attacked by another as unfactual so i pointed out specifically why each particular thing said was indeed a fact.

That’s it!

85. wilfred - 5 September 2008

#81 LOL. Are you sure that hasn’t been the case for awhile LC?

Just the thought of Cheney being dollied around with sunglasses on gives me a much needed laugh on this Friday afternoon.

And Lynne would be happy, no inheritance taxes!

86. wilfred - 5 September 2008
87. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

84. Are you sure that hasn’t been the case for awhile LC?

We’ll never really know, now will we? 🙂

88. maddie - 5 September 2008

HRR #1 and 2. Been at work all day and just now able to respond:

I have no problem with her choice to accept the VP nomination. Frankly, I made a similar choice — went back to work full-time after having my daughter (although my job isn’t quite as glamorous as Veepsa).

The point I was trying to make wasn’t about the choice she made. It’s about the way she has chosen to represent herself (or rather, the way the Republicans are representing her). That she can be the Vice-President (or hold down any full-time job) AND be the primary homemaker, care-giver and full-time Mom to a special needs child. It’s about the expectations that are put on women. That they should still maintain their traditional roles as moms and homemakers while holding down full-time jobs, with no expectations or discussion of how men should help out.

I remember, as a child (in the 70s) some commercial (for a perfume IIRC), the jingle for which was, “I can bring the home the bacon, fry it up in pan, and never ever let you forget you’re a man. Cause I’m a woooooman.” At the time, I was being raised by a single working mom, and it was my responsibility to make dinner a few nights a week. I was, I dunno, 9, maybe 10 years old. Even at that age I can remember watching that commercial and thinking, “What bullshit!” It’s the “I’m a Super-Working-Mom Who Can Do It All” message that I just can’t stand. I don’t think this message is helping women. It’s just giving men another free pass.

On your second comment — agreed. As I said, I had no problem with her speech. It’s the hypocrisy of the Republicans, embracing this woman after years of denigrating Hilary as a “ball-busting bitch.” And seeing the “progressives'” disgusting attacks on Palin.

Although, the “progressive” blogs certainly didn’t like Hilary either. I guess we should give them a few kudos — at least they’re consistent in their mysogeny. 😉

89. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008
90. wilfred - 5 September 2008

Wow, McCain rep on MSNBC says that Palin won’t give a Press Conference until ‘she’s ready’.

Umm, she’s not ready for a PC but she’s ready to be the VP?
The mind reels.

And if i hear the term “Rock Star’ one more time I’ll puke.
LOL, even the dumbest rock stars give press conferences all the time.

91. bayprairie - 5 September 2008

the lighter side of sunday’s whackistan.

Meteor Blades will discuss how one of the worst aspects of overly broad accusations of sexism is how they undermine concerns about real sexism, which still has its talons hooked deeply into our society, from boardroom to blogworld.

ok. everyone just stop undermining “concerns about real sexism” with your “overly broad accusations” aimed at all those misogynists at dkos.



92. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

(OK I date myself here – Justin Timberlake?).

I believe it would be the Jonas Brothers now, if I’m not mistaken. Justin is so five years ago.

Jeebus, why do I know that?

93. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

re: 46 – well said.

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

Kilkenny was interviewed on All Things Considered this afternoon, bracketed by stories about her Pentacostal (fuckin’ nutjobs) “faith” and McCain’s epic fail w/ the picture of the middle school instead of Walter Reed Hospital.

95. maddie - 5 September 2008

I can’t believe I misspelled “misogyny”.

Did Pff really go poof? I thought I read a reference somewhere (here?) to Pff 2. Did peeder start a new site?

96. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

Cheney’s not going to abdicate. Unless he drops dead.

The undead don’t die. The only hope is to stake them or cut off their heads and stuff garlic down the stump.

97. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

LOL, even the dumbest rock stars give press conferences all the time.

and manage to bed a couple of groupies, digest a bunch of drugs and alcohol, catch up on sleep and make it to the stage the next day.

98. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

The IVAW protestor last night was Adam Kokesh. Photos at the link.

99. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

maddie – Yes, peeder pulled the plug.

Jack’s Smirking Revenge (a former pffter) set up a new site here: Free Speech Zone.

100. bayprairie - 5 September 2008

Did Pff really go poof? I thought I read a reference somewhere (here?) to Pff 2. Did peeder start a new site?

yes he did. took a little over an entire year of people’s diaries, comments photos, thousands of posts and threads and removed the took his entire ball and went home.

he didn’t start a new site one of the regulars did. i forget the url. IB knows it though, maybe she’ll drop it in.

101. bayprairie - 5 September 2008


what she said

IB is just too fast for me!

102. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

Sears to Start Selling Line of Official U.S. Military Garb

There is a funny mention at the link to Sears selling a DVD:

“Death Chants, Breakdowns and Military Waltzes, Vol. 2,”

Well, martial music is popular, and always has been. Back in my previous career as a music buyer, I kept a small section of 15 or 20 cds of Pipes and Drums collections in the Folk section, which is, of course, military music. We also kept a section of military marches in classical. They all sold regularly. I met elderly people who bought it for their morning walks. One man’s propaganda is another man’s hobby.

Anyway, I offer the story because I think there needs to be a serious discussion about the marketing of war in this country. Not sure what can be done about it.

103. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

93 – Interesting item at All Things Considered on sex ed for teens, with some info on Alaska. Snippet:

Most states leave the scope of sex education up to the local school boards. That’s also true in Alaska, where there is no requirement that the subject be taught. Alaska’s largest school district, Anchorage, emphasizes abstinence, with a program called “Abstinence Plus.”

Once each semester, a teacher, student or principal can invite experts to talk to the class on reproductive health. Planned Parenthood is often invited in to do comprehensive sex education, and so is Let’s Talk, a program that advocates abstinence until marriage.

Let’s Talk is run by Bill Donovan, who also directs the Crisis Pregnancy Center in Anchorage. He says teenagers in Alaska are getting a balanced view of the options available to them.

“You can’t say that because they are hearing abstinence education, they don’t know anything about what they call ‘safer sex,’ ” Donovan says. “They hear it from their teachers. They hear from outside groups that are invited in.”

Teens from small towns like Palin’s hometown of Wasilla turn up “all the time” at the Crisis Pregnancy Center, Donovan says.

“Not only that, they will fly in from the bush and the villages to come to our center,” he says.

He has helped teenagers tell their parents that they are pregnant and he has counseled them on adoption. But Donovan says he neither counsels nor refers them to contraceptive services.

Reproductive health and family planning services are available through Alaska’s Department of Maternal and Child Health, which is headed by Stephanie Burch. Through the agency, she says, teenagers can be directed to public health centers and private doctors in their area. She often relies on the Internet to communicate with them.

“Teenagers are pretty Web savvy,” Burch says. “I get many e-mails from young women or men who are seeking reproductive health services. They can tell me which community they are from and I can connect them with either a private provider or one of the public health centers.”

104. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

Sooooo pwogwessive!

Biden: Israel free to attack Iran

“Israel has an absolute right to defend itself, Biden told The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday adding that “It doesn’t have to ask us”.

His remarks come amid reports that the Bush administration was opposed to a military action by Israel against Iran’s nuclear facilities.

The Washington Post quoted an unnamed official as saying earlier in August that, “Everyone from this White House, including the vice president’s office, is in agreement that the military option is not the best option at this point.”

Biden however said, “It’s not a question for us to tell Israel what they can and cannot do.”

105. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

100 – LOL. Just happened to drop in over there a minute ago.

106. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008
107. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008
108. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

105 – Perfect!

Just went looking for the American Gallery of Psychiatric Art – a collection of drug company ads over the decades – to find a pic, but the site appears to have been taken down. A Japanese version is still out there.

101 – I love pipe-and-drum bands live, but never listen to recordings, and I don’t care for most other strains of martial music. But I’m a lot more worried about the influence of stuff like this – Army Experience Center offers simulations at mall – than I am about the lure of Sousa or the siren call of marching bands.

109. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

105. lol…I’m borrowing that for my Friday Fun post. Thanks.

110. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008
111. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

And tying it all together is the notion (expressed with vehemence by a coworker, just the other day) that the anti-contraception movement (well-served by recent pop-cult paeans to teen motherhood, like Juno) is all about keeping breeding levels up to satisfy the staffing requirements of global, imperial, and corporate war machines.

112. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

the drug ads are very interesting. Thanx!

I’m glad you guys like #105. I laughed when I found it (through a link from Balloon Juice).

113. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

Live and learn!

The term “pheromone” was introduced by Peter Karlson and Martin Lüscher in 1959, based on the Greek pherein (to transport) and hormone (to stimulate). They proposed the term to describe chemical signals from conspecifics which elicit innate behaviours soon after Butenandt characterized the first such chemical, Bombykol (a chemically well-characterized pheromone released by the female silkworm to attract mates)

114. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

Amy Goodman and Democracy Now! Producers Describe Their Harrowing RNC Arrest (part 2)

I think they should be able to pay for production for a while with the proceeds from the lawsuits.

115. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

112 might look like a non sequitur, but I was googling the term to see if a metaphor held up.

Religion of, by, and for war.

Groovy to see so many other types of pheromones listed at wiki: Aggregation, Alarm, Epideictic, Releaser, Primer, Territorial, and Trail types get their proper blurbs before the (more frequently googled, no doubt) sex pheros paragraph at the the end.

Gotta love scientists, sometimes.

116. maddie - 5 September 2008

Too bad, in some ways, about peeder and Pfft. I had a lot of ambivalence about things that went on there, but I certainly appreciated the site as a response to the censorship on Kos and the likes.

I’ll be interested to see how the new site works out.

117. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

115 – I agree.

I very much approve the notion of Speaker’s Corners . . . obnoxious, ridiculous, imperfect, or even (as with pff) impermanent as they may be.

Apparently the one in Amsterdam is called Spreeksteen, which cracks me up for some reason.

118. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

PS – Don’t be shy to go over – not only is it intended for diverse participation, but JSR is welcoming any and all suggestions on how to spruce up the joint!

119. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

Apparently I’m a blabbermouth tonight. Sorry.

Loved the bobcat story, aemd!

120. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008
121. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008
122. lucid - 5 September 2008

Don’t know who to root for at the US Open, i love Safina and Williams. Just love great tennis.

Justine! Oh, my love of women’s tennis died the day she retired. [Well, not really, but I’m still in Henin withdrawl – the most beautiful game to ever grace the world].

I’m rooting for Jankovic. It’s time for the Serbs to rise up and stick it to the west for their shameful role in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia. 😉

[Then again all the other contenders for #1 other than Serena are Russian and Serb]

123. lucid - 5 September 2008

On the same topic – I must say, I really have fallen in love with Rafa’s game this year – reminds me strangely of Borg in a way – just phenomenal control and placement. And, amazingly enough, he seems to be about the most humble sports superstar you’d ever meet.

124. liberalcatnip - 5 September 2008

119. Curses. Foiled again! And that was our best invasion plan so far.

125. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

123 – Clearly someone didn’t have their Twitter reception device turned on!

Grumble, grumble.

126. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

Whomever was talking about Georgia peaches the other day – raincat? – should definitely check out Colber’t show clips tonight.

127. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

BTW – Thanks to NYCO for the head’s up on Paterson on Colbert tonight. Starting now.

128. wilfred - 5 September 2008

#122 I saw Rafa play on Monday! He was wonderful, such a nice guy too. He’s the best. Looking forward to seeing him this weekend although Tropical Storm Hanna is wreaking havoc on the US Open tomorrow.

129. Intermittent Bystander - 5 September 2008

Another BTW – it was mattes/diamina who brought the first link to FSZ here.

130. lucid - 5 September 2008

Wow… Bill Maher sunk to a new low tonight in his ‘New Rules’ – loosely, “When Obama expected a bump out his convention at least he didn’t think it would be leaking amniotic fluid”… I knew there was a reason I stopped watching that show.

131. marisacat - 5 September 2008

we jstt had an earthguake.. fast hard and sharp

132. marisacat - 5 September 2008


They want her birth canal. Really. It’s an inv asion

133. lucid - 5 September 2008

127 – you were there Monday too? My best buds got tickets [anniversary present to each other]. Was very jealous. Rafa – especially compared to Federer and Sampras, who pretty much dominated for over a decade – is a very nice guy. I lost complete interest in men’s tennis during their reign – assholes both.

As for Hannah – well, I was supposed to be playing a fair trade festival in Massachusetts tomorrow – cancelled… rescheduled for Sunday, and we probably can’t do it.

134. lucid - 5 September 2008

130 – everything OK?

135. marisacat - 5 September 2008

E/NE 2 miles out of Alamo 4.2 on the Richter.

For wome reason I found it upsetting. Noramlly I love quakes. Maybe becasue it is beastuly hot and I hd awakened a bit upset out of a too hot nap.

136. marisacat - 5 September 2008


oh yes… fine this was a jolt, sometimes they are a roller

137. marisacat - 5 September 2008

1.9 aftershock at Blackhawk.. these are E Bay locations

138. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

Maher was horrible on Palin. There are so many things to go after her on without going down that route.

139. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2008

RFLMAO: Harry Reid Puts Lieberman On Notice After GOP Convention Speech

Senate Democrats hinted at payback Thursday for Sen. Joe Lieberman, who called Barack Obama an untested candidate beholden to Democratic interest groups in a prime-time Republican National Convention address.

Lieberman, a Democrat-turned-independent and a close friend of Republican presidential candidate John McCain, still caucuses with Democrats, which allows them to control the Senate with a 51-49 majority . A spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., indicated Thursday that Lieberman may no longer be welcome.

“Lieberman went too far when he distorted Sen. Obama’s record,” said Reid spokesman Jim Manley. “From Reid’s perspective, (Lieberman) has every right to give a partisan speech to whomever he wants. But he doesn’t have the right to distort Sen. Obama’s record like that. Sen. Reid was very disappointed in Lieberman’s speech.”

Added Manley: “The Democratic caucus will likely revisit Lieberman’s situation after the November elections.”

Asked if Reid was putting Lieberman on notice, Manley replied: “Without overplaying it, the answer is, yes.”

Manley refused to discuss what options Democrats might consider in dealing with Lieberman.

“There is no plan,” Manley said. “I assume this is something the Democratic caucus will discuss after the elections in November.”

Basically, when it no longer matters.

140. marisacat - 5 September 2008

gnu thred


………… 8) …………….

141. NYCee - 6 September 2008

130 – Yeah, that was a dud. Among others. Last night was not worth the watch.

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