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Save the WORLD from the unvetted woman!!!!!! 6 September 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


As online punditry is slipping in posts that Schweikert, the miracoli from MT is invited to the Harkin Steak Fry, based on one speech, albeit a classic political barn burner the DNC badly needed (and a red state turning blue-ish-ish)… and most i have read are entitling it “2012 – 2016?” Cheeky! And Obama is out on the hustings today, hitting the mayor, Lt Governor, Governor (they got it right finally) … when I thought that was Biden’s job?


OTH, this is the third version of Biden paying tribute to… the opponent:

“But he’s a great guy,” Biden said, “and if John called me today and said ‘Joe -,’ like when they went after John McCain, when Bush went after him in South Carolina with the scurrilous comments they made about his character, I called him and said, ‘John, where do you want me? I’m an Al Gore man but where do you want me? I will show up anywhere in America to testify to the kind of man you are.’ And he is a good man, he is a good man.”

At some point they hve to REALLY take McCain on. He’s already bagged Lieberman… was there a vacuum on the Democratic hustings this year? (I got a huge chuckle out of that link.) The ticket needed a shill for McCain? Could be. Sounds very Lieberman-ish.

As that chill breeze (Schweitzer in 2012!?) is on Ob.. let it not be said that Sully has abandoned his post. (emphasis is his)

This is incredible, totally incredible. A vice presidential candidate isn’t going to be available to the press for two weeks? Two weeks? In September. We have this total unknown who could be president of the United States next January. And she’s in hiding for two weeks. Chris Matthews on this clip says that this is fine. Has he lost his mind? She needs to be in front of the press now. The United States and the world cannot have this total unknown foisted on the presidency without any serious vetting and without any press interaction. This is absolutely third world. Since when is the governor of a state given two weeks in hiding?

The sexism that implies that someone cannot stand up to reporters because she is a woman is appalling. This entire pick, of course, is incredibly sexist, and the handling of her in the last week the most sexist double standard I have ever seen in American politics. Can you imagine Hillary Clinton saying she wasn’t going to answer questions for two weeks? Or Margaret Thatcher? Or Kay Bailey Hutchison? Or Elizabeth Dole? And none of these women were ever as close to global power as Sarah Palin now is. This is getting to Manchurian Candidate levels of creepiness. It’s deeply sinister and slightly terrifying.

hmm I know I sleep easier, knowing Ob will ascend to the WH, with his back covered. I can see Sully flying around in his caped crusader outfit…

Don’t worry, Tapper is running a daily count, how long Palin eludes executing a flyover of the assembled press with a big hunting rifle. With a sniper sight. Along with his series on Biden and his mouth. Think it is called “Oh That Joe”

I want to see and hear Palin at a presser or press avail as much as anyone, but think for a few minutes. No one can really say, after the past 8 days that she has not met the press [that was sarcasm]. And I believe we are moving into a chapter where Team McCain is exercising some discipline over Team Ob.

Job One for Ob, months ago, was to crack and peel that ”Maverick” label off McCain. Take it away from him! Then taunt him with it. Get with the only program that works: the only way to win is go at him, hard. And again and again, harder.

McCain definitely doubled down on that Maverick label. When Team Ob was not looking.



1. marisacat - 6 September 2008

From the Crittenden link (the one that gave me a chuckle):

# El Cid Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

“old geezer with hairplugs”

They shoulda’ put the damn things in upside down. At least something would have been on the inside.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 September 2008

everytime you think the donks have plumbed the depths of their own incompentance and cluelessness, they step up (down??!) and out-do themselves.

3. Intermittent Bystander - 6 September 2008

Well the “green screen” has kept Josh Marshall very busy.

There is that!

4. Intermittent Bystander - 6 September 2008

Oops – reply was to last thread, sorry.

5. marisacat - 6 September 2008

Why do Democrats put up with such mealy shit, served up as political battle?

6. Intermittent Bystander - 6 September 2008

Shell shock plus years and years of conditioning?

7. marisacat - 6 September 2008

In 2004 to survive August when Kerry proved he would not win… I wuld slam on Tosca, the 1964 production with Callas. Especially wehre she stabs Scarpia. Just ran it over and over. Plunging that knife.

have to find an opera for this year. For September. If they pull the lie down and die crap again.

Maybe Salome.

8. marisacat - 6 September 2008


My take they fall in love. They accept some fuzzy sex act rather than a battle and a win.

Maybe Ob can pull it off, but he has to rev up.

9. Intermittent Bystander - 6 September 2008

One can only hope they’re retooling, and quickly.

A come-to-Jesus (not-John-the-McBaptist) chat with Biden wouldn’t seem out of order.

(Biblical reference alert!)


Biden as Nice Guy has always been nauseating. God and dentists didn’t give you those choppers for smarmy smiling, son!

10. marisacat - 6 September 2008

There is a refutation of the “list of banned” books around. Tell me this is not possible.

I am sure anyone interested can find it.

11. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 September 2008

whatever opera you pick, it needs to be something kinda sad, with a tired air.

We’re well past tragedy now.

12. marisacat - 6 September 2008

have to be careful tho… I played a disc of Monserrat Caballe’s arias when friend was dying. A lot… Years ago. Have to be careful now when I put it on.

We’ll know more when the debates happen………………..

13. liberalcatnip - 6 September 2008
14. marisacat - 7 September 2008

More fish slap


“My conclusion at this point is that it’s very much an open matter.”

– SENATOR ARLEN SPECTER, on the F.B.I.’s case against Bruce E. Ivins, a scientist who killed himself in July, as the 2001 anthrax killer.


15. marisacat - 7 September 2008

hmm as counterpoint to the Guardian link at 13, Klein closes with this. Not especially what I have noticed, tho the R are reliable, election after election in some ways. How long can the D be sideswiped? Shocked and surprised? The Democrats are scarcely interested in discussing the real issues in real ways.

Maybe I’m getting old, maybe it’s that I’ve seen this act so often before, maybe it’s that the people I talk to when I go out on the road really are having a harder time paying for things like health care, gasoline and college tuition, but I’m finding the Republican attempts to derail the conversation from the actual state of the country really depressing and disgraceful this year. They practice Orwellian politics of the crudest sort. They are trying to sell a big lie–that the election is about the social issues of the 1960s, or Barack Obama’s patriotism or his eloquence, or the “angry left,” when it’s really about turning toward a more moderate path after the ideological radicalism and malfeasance of the past eight years.

16. marisacat - 7 September 2008

hmm the media matnra seems to be that McC Palin are garnering “large crowds” and “it is so successful, they will campaign together several more days”.

Just heard a clip of her/SP touting them as the Maverick Team.

17. marisacat - 7 September 2008

This at CBS linked to a vid of Biden taking a punch, Friday on the stump. The next day he went back to Windsor and taught his law class.

(Political Animal) BIDEN CAN THROW A PUNCH…. I suspect some Democrats were starting to get at least a little worried about Joe Biden’s praise for John McCain. The two have been friends for decades, and Biden has a tendency to tell crowds just how much he likes the Republican nominee ::snip::

18. marisacat - 7 September 2008

The article from Judis in TNR on his background community organising. Better than I expected. Not a fan esp of Judis and Texeira.

19. marisacat - 7 September 2008

hmm apparently Palin and McCain will be on 60 Minutes tomorrow night (or Sunday night or whatever day htis is)

20. marisacat - 7 September 2008

Well no mention of it on the CBS 60 Minutes page.

Who knows.

21. marisacat - 7 September 2008
22. marisacat - 7 September 2008


Sun Sep 7, 2:30 AM ET

TEHRAN (Reuters) – Iran’s armed forces will begin three days of war games on Monday involving anti-aircraft defense systems, Iranian media said on Sunday.

The exercises will be held amid persistent speculation about a possible U.S. or Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, which the West and Israel say are part of a clandestine bid to build atomic bombs, despite Tehran’s denials.

The ISNA news agency said both Iran’s Revolutionary Guards and its regular army would take part in the drills.

“Maneuvers with the participation of anti-aircraft defense systems will be held for three days starting Monday,” it said, without giving further details. ::snip::

23. Heather-Rose Ryan - 7 September 2008

MCat up top, quoting Sullivan:

This is getting to Manchurian Candidate levels of creepiness. It’s deeply sinister and slightly terrifying.

Sullivan is truly round-the-bend. He reminds me of an ancient aunt of my husband’s who, when she was spiraling downward and full of meds, informed us over and over that Chinese Communists were coming up the stairs, and a strange man was at her dresser rifling through her underwear drawer.

Sullivan’s frenzy would be funny if it weren’t so depressing. Why is it that misogyny makes people so crazy? Why are even intelligent, well-educated people deluded by it?


re: Caballe: try Jessye Norman singing Strauss “Four Last Songs” – that’s my choice for filling the vast hole caused by grieving.


13 and 21 – those articles are excellent takes on the subject.


IB from last thread, on Miss D: I’m surprised at your interpretation of her posting a link at pff

As I recall, the header of the post was something like “What you never knew about HRH”. Anyway, she was lashing out at me, reason unknown.

24. marisacat - 7 September 2008


I am beginning to think Sully staked his sanity on this run… and felt he was a personal standard bearer for Ob.

Settled for a fuzzy sex act I guess, in his mind.

25. Heather-Rose Ryan - 7 September 2008

LOL, a reader writes to Sullivan:

Can you screech any louder?

That paired with the story of the day: NJ cops kick in door over bird’s cries for help

Poor dear Andrew! The Distressed Cockatoo of the Conservatives. But don’t worry, he’s only doing it to get attention.

We used to have an Amazon parrot who had been owned by a gay actor in NYC. The parrot knew many interesting words and phrases, including “Fuck You!” delivered in the flounciest of fabulous drag-queen voices.

26. NYCee - 7 September 2008

Well, it seems perfectly par for the course to me that she would need the two weeks to burn the midnight oil, get all her Drill drill drill!!!, Kill kill kill!!! talking points in a row. Doesnt matter a whit to me. She can take a day or every day until the election, she can answer thousands of questions or none at all, and it doesnt matter.

All anyone has to do is see her tap dancing on the flatbed of a truck emblazoned “John McCain for President/Straight Talk Express” (choke) with snake oil in one hand, a rattler in the other. (Amen, thank you, Jesus!) to know she is seriously fucked up.

And I have already seen that. So have 40 million others.

Let us win so America can WIN,,, war/s. Tap Americans most malignant vein, revitalize it, cause it’s been in remission, and that is NOT good for the bizniz of war and more war (Selling: proud victory for USA!USA!USA! at long last, that being the ad nauseum mantra of McHero and minions at the convention.) Thank god for Sarah!!! Our lightning bolt from the heavens who has electrified us all!


Love those big wavy red stripes as backdrop – rivers of the blood of others, for John and Sarah. May the waters run red and irrigate their fields for years to come. May a hundred tombstones bloom (times hundreds).


Kill, Pussycat, kill, faster, faster!!!

27. NYCee - 7 September 2008

From the last thread:

72. Heather-Rose Ryan – 6 September 2008

What would happen if Palin came out now and said: “I am personally pro-life and would strongly counsel any member of my family against having an abortion – however, I respect that we live in a diverse country with diverse beliefs, and I won’t push to make abortion illegal”.

I think if this happened, then McCain would win in a landslide.

What would happen?

Well, it would still be a sad thing for her daughter. As for the nation – See: Parallel Universe, touch down on other side.

We can all dream though, cant we?

28. marisacat - 7 September 2008

fwiw kgo, local SF talk radio, which streams over the net, will have the Alaskan Assemblies of God pastor, is it Koonz (?) on by phone. in the 8 am hour (PT) In the same hour, but not with him, (if I got it right) there is adiscussion of abortion politics.

It’s the Sunday God hours, but it is the most secular god stuff I have ever heard…


29. NYCO - 7 September 2008

The Republicans seem to be following the playbook guessed at PressThink (I posted this link before, but it’s turning out to be so useful…)

Double down on defiance by never letting her answer questions, except from friendly media figures who have joined your narrative; like Cheney with Fox. No meet the press at all. No interviews of Palin with the DC media elite— at all. De-legitimate the ask. Break with all “access” expectations. Use surrogates and spokesmen, let them get mauled, then whip up resentment at their mistreatment. Answer questions at town halls and call that adequate enough.

30. NYCO - 7 September 2008

A further thought on the Palin issue:

We’re approaching the “Return By” date here in the public’s acceptance (if not approval) of Palin as a “credible” VP candidate. The truth is that the window for rejection is much shorter than people think. I’m reminded of how David Paterson let all of one day pass before he quickly aired his own dirty laundry after the Spitzer scandal. He knew that Albany was so utterly blindsided by the Spitzer revelations that he could safely sweep his own table clean and no one in the media could react. Within 1-2 weeks, the “story” (of his past infidelities and drug use) was deader than a doornail. It will never be revived. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other nagging little skeletons in Paterson’s political closet, but they don’t really add up to anything.

Palin’s VP candidacy has been handled much the same way. She got the daughter’s-pregnancy thing out there immediately. It may be (incorrectly) seen as a cause celebre for the Dems (she’s a hypocrite! her daughter isn’t free!) but it’s already now just another factoid buzzing around. I think she can say a small prayer of thanks to Jamie Spears for being the “first” pregnant celebrity teen.

Of course, the GOP has to maintain this blistering pace of pigheaded full-court-press obfuscation for two more months. Can they do it?

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

Sarah Vowell:

In the 1868 presidential election, when the American people voted for Grant, the greatest war hero of the 19th century, they had no inkling they had just chosen one of our worst presidents, a largely clueless chief executive who allowed corruption to flourish in his administration and who offered pretty much zero leadership during the depression known as the Panic of 1873.

I am not merely pointing out that military fortitude does not necessarily lead to presidential wisdom — sometimes it does. The nation’s capital that the Republican Party loathes so much is named after one such gentleman. My point is way more obvious and disquieting. No matter how much we voters know about a candidate, the truth is we never can tell what kind of president he’ll be.

Senator McCain has been both lauded and derided as a “gambler” for choosing the obscure governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, as his running mate. That’s nothing compared to the sucker bet the American people are forced to make every four years. For instance, who knew that Herbert Hoover, who had been such a heroic do-gooder for the Belgians during their food crisis of 1914, would turn out to be a president blatantly blasé about Americans who were starving during the Great Depression? And what was it like to turn on the radio in Kansas City on Aug. 6, 1945, to hear the news about Hiroshima and realize that the commander in chief who gave the order to unleash the most terrifying weapon in the history of the world was the guy who used to sell you your hats? Follow-up: How did Harry Truman draw on his executive experience as the proprietor of a haberdashery to decide whether to vaporize a town?

I’m convinced that the immediate mass flip-out over the Palin nomination can’t be entirely explained by sexism, elitism or partisan animosity. It was a symptom of just how much the presidential future is a suspense movie scored by Bernard Herrmann. It’s enough of a nail-biter to throw in with a two-person ticket for four years. So if newscasters don’t even know how to pronounce the vice presidential pick’s name upon announcement, the violins of apprehension start to screech “Psycho” shower-scene loud.

32. marisacat - 7 September 2008

was a symptom of just how much the presidential future is a suspense movie scored by Bernard Herrmann

I have a couple CDs of his, really wonderful to listen to…

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

He did some fantastic scores.

34. marisacat - 7 September 2008

From MTP (will get the transcrpt in a bit)

–Biden repeated his longtime view that ‘life begins at the moment of conception,’ the same position as McCain. ‘For me, as a Roman Catholic, I’m prepared to accept the teachings of my church … I’m prepared, as a matter of faith, to accept that life begins at the moment of conception. Brokaw asked Biden how he could have that view and also vote for abortion rights. ‘No … I have voted against curtailing the right – criminalizing abortion,’ Biden replied. ‘I have voted against telling everyone else in the country that they have to accept my religiously based view that it’s a moment of conception.’

Well no. He voted in support of banning “partial birth abortion”, I remember distinclty as 17 senators voted for it in 2003, 4 in ledadership: Reid, Daschle, Biden adn Leahy and 14 senators. The bill that went to the SC with Cathcart, PPFA and Clemente for the government.

35. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008


First time tear gas, second time robo-polls: If Karl Marx were on hand today to record the progress of our long cultural civil war, one suspects this would be the law of history he would coin to describe its bewildering phases. The novelist Norman Mailer was physically present for the tear-gas part—which is to say, at the famous “police riot” during the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. His classic account of the proceedings, Miami and the Siege of Chicago, has been reissued in a fortieth-anniversary edition this year, and in it we can find him sneering at the Republicans, whom he regarded as the party of “the Wasp”; cheering on the hipster left, the culture war’s original instigators; and booing the old-style machine Democrats, who would soon defect to the right. The certainty that we were heading into many decades of political idiocy grows larger and larger in Mailer’s consciousness until by the end he is in a funk of resignation and dread. “We will be fighting for forty years,” he writes on the book’s final page. As indeed we have been.

Here at our end of the forty-year war there are no Norman Mailers. Only pollsters. And consultants. And political scientists. The interpretation game is theirs now, and with the solemn mystifications of their profession, they guard it from befouling by mere “reporters,” as Mailer always referred to himself. The pollsters’ findings and the scientists’ graphs are what we are to consult should we wish to make some portentous comparison of this year’s mood to, say, that of 1976 or of the odds facing this year’s Republican standard-bearer to the chances of the one nominated in 1988.

It is a facile thing to say that the evolution from Mailer-style reporting to the works of these present-day wise men represents a decline, or even a catastrophic plunge, in the nation’s understanding of itself, but it has the virtue of being true. We are accustomed to thinking of history as a story of progress, but the replacement of observers like Mailer by superstar pollsters and consultants engagés is something very close to the opposite. Yes, Mailer was unbearably egotistical, given to exaggeration, and forever fleshing out a pet theory of history—the war of the hip and the square—that seems farcical in retrospect. But in his description of virtually any person, scene, building, or event, or even in his casual comments about the decor of a room where an event is about to take place, we learn more about what it’s like to be an American than we do from all the pollsters’ statistics put together.

36. marisacat - 7 September 2008

Here at our end of the forty-year war there are no Norman Mailers. Only pollsters. And consultants. And political scientists.

there was a lot more writing. Then. And less strangled speech.

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

it’s far more important now to maintain a commerical viability by not offending too much, unless of course you’re writing from the right, in which case offending at least half the population is part of the sale.

I really wish, watching the chat shows, that real arguments would break out, rather than volleys of talking points memorized and shouted over other talking points, with the infortainment “inteviewer” serving only to make sure no one wanders out of the general agreed direction of the herd.

38. NYCO - 7 September 2008

35. Too bad most people only read the Chicago part of Mailer’s book and not the Miami part, which was much more spot-on and relevant to today’s politics.

39. NYCO - 7 September 2008

PS- I can’t help thinking Mailer would have had much more pithy observations to make about Denver than about St. Paul.

40. ms_xeno - 7 September 2008

#8: “Fuzzy sex act ???”

Flowers, champagne and soft lights for the top of the ticket. What everyone in the scullery ends up with is not fit for discussion. Or not worth discussing, since so many of them seem to like it just fine.

#9: Not that it matters, but it’s always possible that Obama’s handlers foisted Biden on him. Then again, it’s also possible that Obama really is so stupid as to originate himself the idea that a Veep desperate to serve as McCain’s lickspittle is synonymous with “change you can believe in.”

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

I remember that there had been a discussion here about raw milk, and now this story really makes it sound yummy

I was with friends, all of us from New York City, and, clueless as to how these negotiations were meant to be handled, we lingered while we worked up the nerve to ask a farmhand. He told us to come back the next morning, after the cows had been milked but before the truck from a larger organic dairy came to pick up the milk and send it on its way through the system.

We returned in the morning with empty glass bottles, stepping into the room that held the cooling tank in which it was kept, pressing a button that would agitate the milk, opening a spigot and watching it pour into our bottle. Paying was by the honor system — $4 a gallon, leave your name on a little pad by the door.

The milk — oh man, the milk! — was creamy and full of flavors, not white like supermarket milk, but yellow-tinged. It was milk with a taste that wasn’t just defined by it texture — it was distinct, satisfying, delicious. All food should be like this, I thought, so natural it seems to redefine the word.

Last summer we drank it just as a snack; this summer we paired it with a blueberry pie we’d made with all the blueberries at the market. The tanginess of the milk offset the berries’ sweet-and-tart blend like nothing else. –Emily Weinstein

42. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

40 – you didn’t know that the donk ticket were secretly furries.

43. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

40 – oh, and isn’t being a Republican’s lickspittle part of the initiation oath to BE a donklephant office holder?

44. ms_xeno - 7 September 2008


I am reminded of the time on PFF that I traumatized somebody (MarketTrustee ?) by suggesting that our elected officials dress up as furries in a bid to rekindle the public’s interest in Democracy. Oh, well, we can look back on those fog-shrouded days of the far-distant past now and laugh.

Oh, and that cartoon is fabulous.

45. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008


[fixed the link — Mcat]

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

So, as a parlor game, which animals would they dress up as if they WERE furries?

Obama reminds me of a lemur w/ the big ears and eyes, and Biden is, of course, a hyena.

Palin would have interchangable Barracuda and Pit bull costumes, but all McCain reminds me of is an old guy in his boxers waving a shotgun.

47. ms_xeno - 7 September 2008

…but all McCain reminds me of is an old guy in his boxers waving a shotgun.

So that means McCain and Reid are identical twins… litter mates… whatever the correct terminology would be ?

You’re a bad person and that’s why nobody likes you.

48. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

47 – matching everlasts (Reid in hot pink, McCain in iridescent puce) pulled up to their sagging man-tits.

you tell me the sweetest things!

49. ms_xeno - 7 September 2008

Speaking of disgraced subcultures, I once had a SCAdian tell me that the color puce originated because the wealthy of 18th Century France specifically wanted a color that would camouflage flea infestations on clothing and hair.

Make of that what you will… :p

50. diane - 7 September 2008

hey sweetpea…..jus checkin in to let you know that I’m with you, on your (tested and too many times waning) belief that humans can and will stand up for goodness at the end of the day……….because I know you wouldn’t be saying what you say without a belief in that goodness…..you would have given up, if you really believed humans were unredeemable….

if ever I would leave you…….. I would be murdering myself.

51. marisacat - 7 September 2008


“She’s a smart, tough politician,” Biden told Tom Brokaw in a “Meet the Press” interview live from Wilmington, Del. “So I think she’s going to be formidable. Eventually, she’s going to have to sit in front of you like I’m doing and have done. Eventually, she’s going to have to answer questions and not be sequestered. Eventually, she’s going to have to answer on the record.”

Charlie Gibson ABC snagged the first interview. he sits down iwth palin in Alaska this week. The Page did nto give a day it would air.

52. diane - 7 September 2008

jus sayin…kind of odd what just went down with gustav……no prep at all for Katrina, despite all of the forewarnings…yet with the broken budget…..and the, as told, far more powerful winds…..all is well after gustav (oooh “gustav”….fawn …..how global and all encompassing.)…..(well never mind those remnants moved out who can’t make it back and certainly have far more important things on their minds than buying a computer they can ill afford, and creating a Blahg, or writing the local newspaper with “their story” and hoping it gets beyond the well paid gatekeepers…..)

53. marisacat - 7 September 2008


lst I heard a couple of days ago, word was out in LA that many would not have electricyt for a month. Jindal called that unacceptable. Looks to me like Iraq Rules. Force people out.

54. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

ethnic cleansing, for profit.

55. diane - 7 September 2008

Breaking Sunday news from Parade Magazine…( ..the lame hardcopy) what George Clooney most wants to do…is speak fluent Italian….and ya’ll thought it was Darfur……………………..didn’t ya know he’s a multi-tasker….apparently he’s quite depressed – because, despite numerous weekly lessons he’s still unable to speak fluent Italian (despite mastering Darfurian?).

56. marisacat - 7 September 2008

Clooney should go sit in his house n the Italian Lakes and practice immersion. Best way

Probably too busy on the phone in English to Mia, Holbrooke and Eric Prince, as they all fret over Darfur.

57. diane - 7 September 2008

…well what would one expect from someone who measures girlfriends against pet pigs….knowing fully well what the the word pig connotates in the english language he speaks so well……

58. diane - 7 September 2008

well..as the the Bad Seed janitor said – they got a blue one for the little boyz…. (crucible?)…..no doubt he was right……

59. diane - 7 September 2008

…..say george, et al….…..your feets too big……..

60. wilfred - 7 September 2008

51. LOL, they chose Charlie Gibson for Palin’s first ‘interview’?
Puff the Magic Press Op …. probably will air as a multi-parter on Good Morning America which is in ABC/Disney’s Entertainment Division with excerpts for World News Tonight ratings.

Still no press conference in sight and they are saying possibly none in the next 60 days or ‘until she’s ready’ which is the 12th of Never.

61. wilfred - 7 September 2008

More of the Sarah Vowell:

During a gubernatorial debate in 2006, Governor Palin claimed that if her daughter, then 16, were impregnated as the result of being raped, Ms. Palin would hope that the girl would “choose life,” which is a polite way of saying she would expect a tenth-grader to give birth to her rapist’s baby.

Here’s a not-so-polite fact about the United States: According to Amnesty International, a woman is raped here every six minutes.

62. marisacat - 7 September 2008

well that debate was scheduled for Cspan today, so I am sure you caught it.

I saw it on Cspan back during the run

63. wilfred - 7 September 2008

nope, saw “Joementum 2” on Meet the Press this a.m. and then was out all day. Just stunning here after the deluge of Hanna last night (almost 4 inches in the city).

One of those great NYC days, everyone knows cool weather is coming soon so tout NY was out in the streets soaking up the last of summer.

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

of course, they cancelled without a word the Cynthia McKinney inteview that had been scheduled for “Road to the White House” on CSPAN in favor of a 2 1/2 year old debate.

65. diane - 7 September 2008


Apparently Palin epitomizes the passionate intensity Yeats spoke of…I would almost wish her to be raped to realize the meaning of the hideous burden she chained her own daughter with in order to be “somebody” politically…………..

66. wilfred - 7 September 2008

CSPAN has that much on a Sunday that they couldn’t find another slot for McKinney? My cable has CSPAN 1, 2 and 3. That sucks.

67. wilfred - 7 September 2008

65. Yep, Diane. I’m sure that’s it.

It would have absolutely nothing to do with Dan Quayle being around before blogs were here. How dare one criticize the repulsive Palin exactly like one criticizes the repulsive Quayle, Cheney or Agnew etc, etc, etc. ad nauseum.
Perish the thought.

Lol, everyone screaming sexism (a very common thing along with racism and homophobia) but for me this story is ineptitude for the office which both Quayle and Palin share in spades along with their offensive stance on many issues especially gays, of which i happen to be one.

Sarah and Todd Palin are Dan and Marilyn Quayle 2008. I know it’s so juicy to scream sexism but to these ears it sounds like “Commies, Commies Everywhere” where Palin is concerned. She’s the first one to be talking “Hockey Mom, Lipstick, Female Barracuda” and all I have to say is yawn. I couldn’t care less about her genitalia.

For me, an asshole has no gender.

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

hopefully it will be on next week. It was taped a week or two ago.

69. liberalcatnip - 7 September 2008

This is getting pathetic… (well, it actually passed “pathetic” a LONG time ago)…anyway: Barack Obama ‘wanted to join US military’

Barack Obama has said he considered joining the United States military when he left school but decided not to because the Vietnam war was over and “we weren’t engaged in an active military conflict at that point”.

The statement is thought to be the first time during the 19-month-long presidential campaign that the Democratic nominee for the White House has indicated he once wanted to serve in uniform. The aspiration was not mentioned in either of his two volumes of memoirs.

Right. So I WONDER why he’d bring it up now after a week of Rah Rah USA USA War Hero Johnny. Hmmm…

70. wilfred - 7 September 2008

Right. So I WONDER why he’d bring it up now

actually he didn’t. Stephanopulous directly asked him the question “Did you ever consider joining the armed forces” this morning on his show. I saw it when i flipped over during a commercial break when I watched Joementum 2 on MTP.

71. liberalcatnip - 7 September 2008

70. Still. He didn’t right about it? It’s never come up before? Why not?

72. liberalcatnip - 7 September 2008

I see MB has written a bloody novel on the dkos FP about “Sexism and the McCain-Palin Candidacy”. I’ll put that on my list of things to read when I’m excruciatingly bored.

73. liberalcatnip - 7 September 2008

Sorry, wilfred. I know I’m cynical. Just tired of the selling of the American presidency. It’s like an infomercial that never ends.

74. wilfred - 7 September 2008

I know LC, sometimes I wonder if I’m tired of them now or I’d be tired of anyone after 14 months of non-stop campaigning. It’s all gotten so stupid. The media doesn’t help, they’re all just John Tesh and Mary Hart from Entertainment Tonight. I loathe the lot of them.

75. diane - 7 September 2008

wilfred – not sure how you took my response at 65., just to clarify, I was criticizing her.

ya know, I’m still not able to access the dkos home page…it’s probably a benefit, but every once in a while I wish I could read something other people are talking about…then again…they say, be careful what you wish for………….speaking of other sites…I noticed that pff seemingly imploded…..what happened there?

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

Israeli Police: Indict Prime Minister Olmert On Corruption Charges

The police statement said they want to indict Olmert in affairs that include receiving tens of thousands of dollars from a U.S. businessman and double-billing Jewish groups for trips abroad.

The police recommendation though would have only limited effect. The decision about whether to indict Olmert rests with the attorney general, Meni Mazuz. In the past, Mazuz and his predecessors have turned down police recommendations to indict Israeli leaders several times.

The political effect of the police recommendation is also limited. Already in July, Olmert announced he would resign later this month because of the multiple corruption investigations. Though he has been dogged by corruption charges through his long public career, Olmert has never been indicted and has denied all wrongdoing.

77. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2008

Is McCain Palin’s Bitch?

ducks and runs …

78. wilfred - 7 September 2008

Sorry Diane, my bad as I completely misread that comment. I would say that karma-wise i can’t ever wish violence on any human being, ever. Although i do wish every hypocrite would be hoisted on their own petard regardless of their gender.

I think we’re all just stressed out to the max at the moment, this whole country is fucking bonkers and has been for far too long.

Many people are stressed out because they believe that this is the last chance to fix the system before it breaks down totally.

Many are freaked out because they want to keep control because they are afraid if the opposition takes control and makes it better at all they’ll have to stare at all that failure.

Many are stressed because they think it’s just hopeless any way they slice it.

79. diane - 7 September 2008


no problem wilfred…and I agree about the stress…there’s always something to keep a person unsettled…I was told a few days ago, quite nonchalantly, that my doing the right thing on my job would soon have me without one…I mean, I always knew doing a good job in my field could, and has, ironically, gotten me in trouble, but it was never put quite so bluntly before, so much for the bootstrap myth…….

80. wilfred - 7 September 2008

Sorry to hear that diane, how awful.
The workplace has gotten to be hideous, and there is nothing worse than being put in a lose-lose situation.

81. wilfred - 7 September 2008

diane, check the last thread or two here, i know they were talking about PFF. I know it shut down for good but they said something about 2 posters from there starting their own blogs and there were links provided.

82. diane - 7 September 2008

thanks for the compassion wilfred, without compassion in the world I don’t think there would be anything left to hang out for…have a good evening!

83. diane - 7 September 2008


Thanks…wilfred, kinda curious as to the final straw there….

84. liberalcatnip - 7 September 2008

78. Many people are stressed out because they believe that this is the last chance to fix the system before it breaks down totally.

If only it would.

85. liberalcatnip - 7 September 2008
86. marisacat - 8 September 2008


not sure if you are still around, but the link for the post PFF effort is


87. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

65 I would almost wish her to be raped

Oh that’s really “compassionate” diane. You disgust me.

67 – Lol, everyone screaming sexism I know it’s so juicy to scream sexism but to these ears it sounds like “Commies, Commies Everywhere” where Palin is concerned.

Fuck you, wilfred. You disgust me too. Both of you are examples of fake “progressives”. You are so caught up in your bullshit partisan-political fantasies of “I’m on the Good side fighting Evil!” that you have lost any vestige of actual progressive principles you might have had.

News flash: the “Good” side doesn’t “almost wish” for anyone to be raped. The “Good” side doesn’t mock and belittle complaints about sexism.

You really belong at Daily Kos. Too bad you got banned, or whatever.

88. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

One positive thing about this Palin furor is that it’s showing up the inner misogynist in so many who have been “passing” as progressives. It’s like putting a counterfeit bill under black light.

The fascinating thing is that they just can’t stop themselves. It would be very easy to criticize Palin in so many ways that have nothing whatsoever to do with her gender. It would take a little brain power, but nothing people of normal intelligence can’t handle. But NO, the trigger of primitivism has tripped, the juices are flowing and the target is HER AS A WOMAN.

89. NYCO - 8 September 2008

You know Sarah Palin is scaring a lot of proggies and pwoggies when people at work start e-mailing you the Kilkenny Letter (and these people have never sent political spam to co-workers before).

90. marisacat - 8 September 2008

The new poll out will rev them up further. 10 pts ahead, likely voters, USAToday/Gallup.

National, so basically a toy… but up to Obama and Biden to whack at it.

91. NYCO - 8 September 2008

I hadn’t heard about the Oprah backlash about her refusing to interview Palin (not that Palin would deign to be on her show anyway, but…)


I wonder if Oprah is regretting her decision to plight her troth to The One. (she also refused to interview Hillary Clinton)

I do not know what Palin’s current TwPM score is, but she’s still the most-discussed topic on Twitter, apparently; Obama isn’t even in the top 10.

92. wilfred - 8 September 2008

Heather, I’m not going anywhere so get over yourself as I’ve been here since day one. You’re obviously clueless as to who i am. If you’re calling anyone fake, you’re projecting. If I respected your very weak writing I’d extend a hand but such is not the case. How would you like it if you made an anti-Sullivan remark and I called you a homophobe? Try on your own bullshit (and I think Sullivan is an idiot and I’m gay). You should be so objective.

And what utter bullshit about your perceived sexist test. As I said before, “Commies, Commies everywhere”. There are alot of sexists, homophobes and racists in this society but you as the new arbiter is only good for a laugh. I wouldn’t wish Palin, Quayle or Agnew on anyone, not even you.

93. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

89 – Oh yes, the Kilkenny Letter – a rambling, unsourced communication, the highlight of which is gossip about how Palin clawed her way to the position she wanted on the high school basketball team. It’s a character assassination attempt written by a self-professed nobody.

Spare me.

And I see that the fake banned-book list is still being touted at DKos.

Excellent, folks, keep clinging to the agitprop lies – so much more reassuring than actually using your brains.

94. wilfred - 8 September 2008

NYCO, what is the Kilkenny letter? I haven’t even heard of that one, and my family and friends send me all their stuff from every end of the spectrum.

95. marisacat - 8 September 2008

well I can add one thing… at SF Gate SF Chronicle, 9 out of the 10 top commented articles are Palin entitled.


Oprah. I had been reading of the anger on her blog, but had not gone to look at it.

I may be wrong, but I had thought when she endorsed Ob she stated she would hav no more candidates on her show. No matter, her supporters will react as they want, despite a disclaimer of that sort.

Yeah I am unsure she REALLY thought this thru. Hard to say.


Sorry NYCO out of Moderation, apologies for the delay!


New thread…


…………………….. 8) ………………..

96. marisacat - 8 September 2008

I linked to full text of the Kilkenny letter a couple of days ago.. if you google it will come up …

A Wasilla woman has an anti Palin email out there…

97. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

91 You’re obviously clueless as to who i am.

LOL! “DON’T you know who I AM???” Wow, are you Somebody?

No, I don’t know you, but I know that what you’ve been spewing here is bullshit, and not in the least progressive. Not in any way. Be dismissive about sexism all you like, sneer and mock, but be aware that it screams your fakeness in blazing neon letters twelve feet high.

Those of us who understand this situation know exactly who you are and where you’re coming from.

Keep it up, it’s a good laugh.

98. wilfred - 8 September 2008

Must have missed that link Marisa, I’ll go look it up. I’ve seen so much fur flying on all sides through the conventions it’s hard to keep up.

99. marisacat - 8 September 2008

oh it is easy to miss stuff, no problem. And I am sorry, I don’t book mark stuff anymore. 2004 wore me out.

Should be easy to pull up via goggle. getting big play.

100. wilfred - 8 September 2008

Those of us who understand this situation know exactly who you are and where you’re coming from.

ah yes, Heather, the arbiter of all. I understand nothing of discrimination you know, i’ve only been out of the closet since I was a teenager decades ago.

“DON’T you know who I AM???” Wow, are you Somebody?

umm, Heather, you’re embarrassing yourself. That line in my post was:
You’re obviously clueless as to who i am
alluding that i have a lagre volume of comments here since day one and you swoop in here late in the game and make all sorts of paranoid announcements. You just prove the “Commies, Commies Everywhere” yet again. Stop while you’re behind.

Assholes are assholes Heather whether they are men or women. You can call Palin one without being sexist just as you can Bush/Cheney assholes without being a ‘man-hater’ (a phrase the winger relatives use to demean feminists which i loathe). I think it’s perfectly ok to bash your oppressor group but i guess that’s part of my faux progressive value system, lol.

I do my best not to slander people as racist or homophobes just because people disagree with me or because they have different points of view. You should take note of that because your anger is blinding you here, truly.
You’ve started to make an enemy of someone who should be your ally but you’re blinded by your anger, stress or whatever. Maybe this shall pass but your ‘fuck you’ was quite foolish. Nuff said.

101. wilfred - 8 September 2008

And I am sorry, I don’t book mark stuff anymore. 2004 wore me out

No need! I don’t know how you ever catalogued all that stuff to begin with, it was pretty much encyclopedic but what amazed me is you kept most of it in your head to begin with.

102. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

wilfred, you’re twisting yourself into knots denying the reality of what just happened here. You’re the one who dismissed charges of sexism.

I don’t give a shit if you’re gay. So what? That gives you no “free pass”.

Call Palin an asshole if you want. I don’t have any problem with that and I never said I did.

You’ve started to make an enemy of someone who should be your ally

Excuse me, no, YOU have made an enemy of someone who should be your ally. Everyone who has made a sexist remark about Palin – and everyone who has tried to EXCUSE such sexist remarks and mock the people who objected to them – makes enemies of real progressives.

If you don’t want to alienate us, don’t say stupid sexist shit. It’s very simple.

103. wilfred - 8 September 2008

ummm, which comment of mine criticized Sarah Palin specifically in regards to her gender?

and be careful Heather, it’s a dangerous charge as far as i’m concerned. And Heather, you’re comments are quickly becoming those of an asshole. You’re spinning. I don’t know why but it’s downright sad. You’re on your high horse as my mom used to say, and tilting at windmills.

If you don’t want to alienate us,

who exactly is US? i’m on good terms with everyone here. And on great terms with all my good friends who are proud feminists whether they’re women, men, straight or gay.

And as far as looking for a free pass, just the opposite. I was reaching out to show you i sure as hell know discrimination and hatred when i see it as i’ve experienced plenty and can smell it a mile away. But you just get nasty. Can you imagine if we were talking about gay issues and discrimination and you said ‘wilfred, i’m a women and i’ve had a ton of it”. I can’t imagine saying to a woman, ‘you don’t get a free pass’. Your vernacular sounds more like that of my fundamentalist family members or in-laws than anyone progressive.

104. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

103 ummm, which comment of mine criticized Sarah Palin specifically in regards to her gender?

You excused such comments by repeatedly mocking the claims of sexism. I’m sure you must remember, because I said “Fuck you” in response to your first comment along those lines.

and be careful Heather

Don’t threaten me, or condescend to me – you’ll just sink yourself even deeper.

I can’t imagine saying to a woman, ‘you don’t get a free pass’.

Oh no? Not even if she said:

Lol, everyone screaming gaybashing… I know it’s so juicy to scream homophobia, but to these ears it sounds like “Commies, Commies Everywhere” …

And what utter bullshit about your perceived homophobia test. As I said before, “Commies, Commies everywhere”.

and then she tried to cover herself by saying “I’m a woman, I encounter discrimination all the time so it’s OK for me to dismiss claims of gaybashing.”

Those comments would be OK with you?

who exactly is US? i’m on good terms with everyone here.

Not with me, you’re not. And I’ve been here a long time.

105. wilfred - 8 September 2008

I’m not on good terms with you, more than fine.
But please don’t put others in the corner that you’re in. It’s obvious you make plenty of enemies Heather, your flameout is inevitable. Madman, Marisa and I have seen tons of it in our several years blogging together.

Don’t threaten you? Give me a break, you were threatening my reputation, a serious charge. And you couldn’t find one instance of me criticizing Palin in a sexist manner, not one. That’s a fact Heather, a fact, and a very serious comment on your credibility. That’s why i questioned you in a recent thread. You attacked a commenter and i stepped in, (not because i disagreed with you at all actually) but because your comment was sloppy factually.

You don’t like my criticizing the criticism and brand me sexist because of that? LOL, you just crossed over into the ludicrous! Your language reeks of the fanatical which is so telling.

Enjoy your corner, Heather. It’s a sad place to live when you create enemies out of whole cloth. I now get where you’re coming from and believe me, want nothing more to do with you.

106. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

wilfred, your attempt to weasel out of the corner your put yourself in with your previous comments is duly noted.

You are free to retract your comments and clarify your points, but as it stands, you tried to dismiss the whole idea of sexism regarding Palin.

Regarding the recent thread: i called the “beauty queen” comment “stupid” and you tried to counter that by saying it was factually accurate.

You really don’t get it.

So once again: Fuck you.

107. wilfred - 8 September 2008

You are free to retract your comments and clarify your points, but as it stands, you tried to dismiss the whole idea of sexism regarding Palin.

Absolutely not but why am i not surprised you’re tossing that falsity?
My belief has always been that sexism exists and there is some sexism in regards to Palin (and Hillary) but you cannot slam all criticism of Palin under a sexism banner, it’s foolish. Much of her criticism is fully earned because she’s an awful choice, one of many America has made and will make again. Criticize her for her flawed beliefs and record for sure but because of her sex? That’s downright silly and obvious, duh. But you can’t look at all criticism of this awful candidate and scream “Sexism” (hence the Commies under every bed scenario which were just as misguided) and weakens the arguments of why she’s a bad choice.

But you, with that fundamentalist absolutist brush you’re painting with say because i qualify that i’m sexist. That is just nutty Heather, really out there.

As for the beauty queen remark you were insinuating that she wasn’t one when factually she was. That was all I was commenting on, just saying get your facts straight. Look it up! As Marisa says better than i, “Gah”!

And enough with the constant nastiness and expletives on a blog such as Mcat, it reeks of desperation. I’d say it’s beneath you but i can’t verify that. How sad if that is really the level you exist on.

108. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Jesus how can she be a worse choice than Biden… I mean really. Look at the whole thing strategically, from a poltical view.

He’s jsut laughable. And, literally, picking him, which I feel was reaction to Georgia and panic over FP experience for Ob, DID step all over Obama’s really quite fragile message, which is change, change and change.

It was always a big gamble on the part of the Dems that they’d get change they did not want out of this thrust and parry of running Obama.

109. wilfred - 8 September 2008

LOL Marisa, who said Biden was a good choice?

did you hear me calling him Joementum 2 yesterday here?

Sorry, unless you weren’t addressing me with #108.

110. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Biden is a really rally bad choice. he is. Won’t be a strong stump campaigner either. It is unclear that he wife will campaign at all (she is back to teaching)… Biden left the trail to teach his law class saturday (and Ob was off the trail three days last week? I mean whaddup?)… on and on. Big lover of McC in reality. Lieberman too. His children and the Lieberman children all know one antoher. For Dems campaigns are an interruption, for Republcians it is war.

I mean, let’s get real here.

But I hear Ronn Owen on KGO just now, claiming Biden will “clean her clcock” in the debate. But really, that is not known at this point.

111. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Well if she is a bad choice then Biden is her opposite. And sorry, she is nto a bad choice. Mark my words wilfred, she is not going to sink.

112. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

106 you cannot slam all criticism of Palin under a sexism banner

Straw man. I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I have said REPEATEDLY: people can criticize her politics and her policies all they like. It’s the sexism, both blatant and subtle, that I (and many others) object to. Mocking her as a “beauty queen” is an example of that. So is the disgusting obsession with the pregnancy rumors, the breastfeeding, her supposed sexual affairs, her clothes, her hair, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.

I saw a comment on DKos today that likened her to a rifle-toting “frontier bride” for McCain. Mindboggling.

So are you planning to retract your “Commies Commies Everywhere” comments or are you still going to insist it’s OK to mock feminists?

113. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

110 Biden is a horrendous choice. Absolutely the worst possible choice. As soon as I heard the news I said “Oh shit, it’s McCain for the next four years – and eight if he lives that long.”

114. wilfred - 8 September 2008

“Mocking her as a “beauty queen” is an example of that. So is the disgusting obsession with the pregnancy rumors, the breastfeeding, her supposed sexual affairs, her clothes, her hair, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.”

If others mocked her Heather they were wrong and I was never among them on those topics. Commenting that factually she was a beauty queen is responsible if someone alludes that she wasn’t. I assume you hate to be corrected when you were wrong. Check the thread, you did and that is all i was saying (yet again!).

The “Commies” remark needs no apology, that is not ‘mocking feminists’, it was to stress that you cannot lump all liberals under the “Red Menace” flag and you cannot lump criticism of Palin under “Sexism”. But of course you can call a nasty sex-based criticism of Palin or any woman as such. Did you really think for a minute that those were really my views? I mean, really?

This is starting to remind me of the arguments where right-wing Jews have called me anti-Semetic for my support of the Palestinian state.

115. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008


If others mocked her Heather they were wrong

That is exactly what whoever-it-was did with the “snakehandling beauty queen” slam.

How about if it had been “snakehandling homosexual”?

The “Commies” remark needs no apology, that is not ‘mocking feminists’, it was to stress that you cannot lump all liberals under the “Red Menace” flag and you cannot lump criticism of Palin under “Sexism”.

OK, if you’re still sticking to that angle: cite one instance in which I lumped all criticism of Palin under “sexism”.

116. diane - 8 September 2008

Heather…If you don’t find implying to the Public at large, to gain political office – that you would hope for your teenage girl to carry a baby, if raped – ghastly, uncompassionate and abusive, given the wisdom that girls seek from their mothers….you don’t strike me as a feminist, or a nice person.

And certainly, you’ve never read any comment I’ve made in the last few years fawning over any political party. I’ve been a registered Independent from the time I could vote. And have fun if you want to jump to She’s a Libertarian! never voted for one. and I’ve never claimed to be a feminist, I like human beings, and I’ve been a woman for likely a longer time than you have and surely taken as much if not more discrimination for it in my older age than you have.

If you don’t like me, I’m sure I’ll get over it

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