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You will be surprised 8 September 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


Yangste Wuhan River – taking a dive – Reuters

but I am worried Obama is losing real ground here, not just slippage from Palin bounce… I don’t like anyone in the headliner group. Gee, what a bunch. But if Obama loses, the whining will be immense. The “Oh, what if… ” weep weep. Very important Obama win, and consummate the Obama administration. With good majorities, all ducks lined up for the Democrats. Take it away Winners!

I notice some serious ramp up of the “They will steal it! … sure they will. Why do the Democrats start to lie down early?

Rev up Obama. Try to win. It can be done.

Too much widely dispersed commentary that Biden is all but disappearing on the stump as an attack dog. Someone have a come to Jesus talk with him. Get with the program for the Jesus sent to earth. I am serious here (I am). That poor thing of a party cannot take another Lieberman throwing the game. It cannot (but it will, LOL).

But, throwing the game is what senators do (they really do).

I don’t expect much from an Obama admin… but a few Democrats will notice, a few, that the wars are rearranged, the GWoT goes on, lethal support for Israel goes on, there is no tolerable, affordable, workable health care for Americans, the schools continue to deteriorate, by neighborhood and by color of student… that there is no comprehensive immigration reform — I am unsure the nation wants any, or that Business Rountable wants it, or the Chamber of Commerce either, I think the game is a seriously destabilised work environment… That we have just travelled 4 more or 8 more years on the same road.

A lot of people are counting on an elastic economy to bounce back. Someday… Not quite what I am seeing this time. Every time one of our constructed bubbles burst, over the past decades, we are more fragaile, more polarised. More stressed. And yes, some are wealthier… and there is a new group primed to ride the new bubble.

Hillary (I was not for her either) had a good line on the trail today: voting Republican is like asking the iceberg to save the Titanic. I look both sides of the aisle… and I see icebergs.

Try to win Ob. Do it for Jeeeeeeeeeeesuhs! Think of taking that shot on the basket ball court… you can do it!

As I always say, Good Luck to Someone.



1. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Something is shifting. via ake Tapper:

What Do Women Want? A Woman on the Ticket!

September 08, 2008 5:43 PM

A new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., making up huge ground among white women since putting Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin on the ticket.

Reports ABC News Polling Director Gary Langer: “From 50-42 percent in Obama’s favor before the conventions to 53-41 percent for McCain now, a 20-point shift that’s one of the single biggest post-convention changes in voter preferences.”

Among white women, 67 percent view Palin favorably; 58 percent say her selection makes them more confident in McCain’s decision-making.

Among those with children, Palin does even better than that. ::snip::

Obama, wise up. Leave attacking her to surrogates. Move on.

2. NYCO - 8 September 2008

Oy vey.

When some members of the audience laughed at the notion that Palin’s biography was compelling, Obama insisted he was being serious.

“No, no, it’s an interesting story,” Obama said. “No, no, look, I mean that sincerely. I mean, mother, governor, moose-shooter, I mean, I think that’s cool, that’s cool, that’s cool stuff.”

Yep, that just oozes with sincerity, in print!

3. marisacat - 8 September 2008


Yes I saw that on film today with Ob. It plays so badly.

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 September 2008

99 (last thread) – I don’t know if it’s true, but it certainly rings true.

Glass houses, stones, etc.

Really, it “rings true”, because ALL men are self-involved assholes, right?

I agree with much of what you’ve said about the sexism in the media and the donk party, but …

… never mind.

5. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

4 – because ALL men are self-involved assholes, right?

Well personally, I empathize with Abe L. (if the story is indeed true) because to be honest, babies and young children are not that interesting.

6. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Some speculation around that Ob is going after Palin as she stars in a new McC ad agaisnt him. Still not a good idea. Leave it to others.

7. NYCO - 8 September 2008

6. It doesn’t seem very presidential. A dumb thing to have to consider, but…

Traditionally it’s the VP’s job to be attack dog. So where the hell is Biden?

8. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Well leaving the baby behind and not noticing happened to my motehr and a friend of hers, the child’s mother. Winter, driving N out of NYC, on snowy roads. They stopped at a small gas station… got back in the car, set off. And after bit looked in the back seat. No child. So they whipped around and headed back.

The child was fine, it was a friendly little gas station and car repair and they were just waiting for the women to notice.

9. marisacat - 8 September 2008


well he was out there, today. And took a hit. But it has been lagging.

I rather think Ob wants to do it. But if he keeps it up, bleed [more] white women. He just will.

10. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

2. For YEARS now I have objected to the misuse of the word “compelling” . “Compelling” us to do WHAT? To stand up and cheer? To throw a brick through a window? To take up crocheting again?

11. NYCO - 8 September 2008

9. So here’s the scary thing: We’re 2 months from a presidential election and we have a candidate who has never really been challenged on anything in his entire political career. And he’s encountered something new. Someone who’s not just going to “take one for the team” but a species of political animal he’s probably never encountered before.

This is one helluva time for people to start learning what makes the guy really tick.

12. baypraire - 8 September 2008

I rather think Ob wants to do it. But if he keeps it up, bleed [more] white women. He just will.

well he’s put himself in check. he could have banked those votes, but chose biden instead, in his arrogance and hubris.

13. marisacat - 8 September 2008

hmm as I was reading around today, I landed on a reference to their lives in Wasilla… that the Heath and Palin families are fully merged as one. Probably that affects child care. Will see if I can backtrack and find it…

14. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

8 – it does happen. One story I heard was a couple pulled over on the highway to reorganize things and put their baby, strapped in the car seat, on top of the car. They did whatever they needed to do in terms of rearranging the luggage etc. and then got back into the car and took off. The baby, still in the car seat, shot off onto the side of the road and lay there in its little capsule until the parents realized what had happened and came back. Fortunately the baby was safe and sound.

Sounds idiotic, of course.

15. marisacat - 8 September 2008

we have a candidate who has never really been challenged on anything in his entire political career.

yup that was one of the big issues. But it was impossible to point it out to anyone. It was labeled racist.

The only thing that really happened to him was the loss in 00 to Bobby Rush. And he jsut went back to his circle of South Siders, tha foundation boards he sat on, the movers and shakers that he knew from Rezko and from working at Judson Minor, the small “civil rights” law firm that was a facilitator for city business for various factions… and so on and so forth. And began gathering himself for the senate run. Which was easy, a walk in the park. If he had won a bitter hard state wide fight, I would look at him differently. I would.

16. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

11 NYCO – what will happen, do you think, if he gets that 3 a.m call? The one where Putin asks “Can you introduce me to your swinging American foxes? I like the one with the rimless eyeglasses!”

17. marisacat - 8 September 2008


I think he made a big mistake not to vet Hillary. It sent a big message out there.

And Biden represents so mnay of the visuals and record of voting issues that were negs for Hillary (and they really were). But then he picks Biden.

It is just a mess.

18. NYCO - 8 September 2008

Ruh-Roh. Obama’s money…


Obama campaign officials had calculated that with its vaunted fund-raising machine, driven by both small contributors over the Internet and a powerful high-dollar donor network, it made more sense to forgo public financing so they could raise and spend unlimited sums.

They called me mad… but I predicted that Obama would run into this problem after he was elected (his “coalition” becoming economically and hence ideologically fragmented), yet it seems to be happening already: How on earth can you make small donors a part of your plan when the economy is crapping its pants? Did they not know where the economy was headed? Is this another case of “No one could have predicted…?”

19. NYCO - 8 September 2008


The new state-by-state goals unveiled by campaign officials in Denver stunned at least some in the room and included sizable increases for at least some states, according to interviews with several Obama fund-raisers.

The campaign has created a fund-raising committee, the Campaign for Change

“Brother, can you spare a dime…?

(another unfortunate side-effect of the overreliance on “Change” as a slogan!)

20. marisacat - 8 September 2008

LOL At the end, the very tag end of some NYT article on Ob and fundraising, a coupel of months ago… none oher than Patty Pritikin (think I have that anme right, the Hyatt heiress who is on his Finance committe) said they really did not have much choice, Ob was too busy fighting Hillary to spend a lot of time schmoozing with big donors, so they pushed small donors hard.

But they looked forward now to having Obama on the fundraising tour. Wha ta hoot!

Then there was anotehr quote from inside the campaign that small donors were good for it “as long as they thought they were part of a movement”.

Reading si so informative… LOL

21. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Penny Pritzker,

There is the name, it ws in the NYT article.

22. diane - 8 September 2008

Thanks for the link to the Free Speech Zone two threads back Marisa.



I’ve responded to your comment to me on the same thread (two back).

23. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

From that ABC/WashPo poll linked to earlier:

White women have moved from 50-42 percent in Obama’s favor before the conventions to 53-41 percent for McCain now, a 20-point shift in the margin that’s one of the single
biggest post-convention changes in voter preferences. The other, also to McCain’s advantage, is in the battleground Midwest, where he’s moved from a 19-point deficit to a 7-point edge.

Looks like that Fargo accent is working to Palin’s (and McCain’s) advantage.

I wonder, has there ever been this large a shift in voter preference because of a VP candidate?

24. diane - 8 September 2008

Hey catnip, just read on the last thread it’s your Birthday!

A happy one to you, and cheescake with plenty berries!

25. Heather-Rose Ryan - 8 September 2008

LOL, I missed this from Sullivan – the link was emailed to me:

John McCain has demonstrated with this insane decision [choosing Palin as VP] that he is unfit to be president of the United States. This was an act of near-criminal negligence. If he can behave this recklessly and impulsively with this decision, the idea of allowing him to become president of the United States is only a smidgen less terrifying than thinking of Palin in that position.

Whatever few doubts I may once have still had about this election, they are resolved now.

Obama has to win. The alternative is unthinkable.

Wow. When I first heard the phrase “unthinkable” tossed around, way back in the ’60s, it was about total nuclear war.

Sullivan is such an emotional character.

26. marisacat - 8 September 2008

Apparently none other than Axelrod told Ob to lay off Palin and not run one on one against her.


27. liberalcatnip - 8 September 2008

Thanks, diane. 🙂

Let’s face it, it’s not like Obama had to fight very hard to get his senate seat in Chicago. His backers and legal maneuvering took care of his challengers. And although I’m not as intimately familiar with some of his top advisors as some of you are, they seem to be just as old school as the Daley machine. I think he just thought he could float through this GE no matter who McCain picked but with Palin as an absolute wild card, he’s going to have to start actually working for votes now. Charisma and hopeychanginess just aren’t cutting it anymore.

Biden is old news. Not much he can do to inject energy into this campaign no matter how many times he tells the train trip story.

28. marisacat - 8 September 2008

I see a few big bumps coming. KGO is running that Palin is “dangerous” for her error or misspeak or ignorance or whatever on Fannie Freddie…. (can she spell potato)

But boy I see some bumps coming. I think Ob will drive earmarks…thinking it ties in Bridge to Everywehre and reform and ethics. And it leads right back to him.
earmark money for UIC and earlier state money to ministers.

At least we have a battle, of sorts. can you imagine if the pick was Pawlenty.

29. liberalcatnip - 8 September 2008


# Cris Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Obama would certainly, certainly never “dump” Joe Biden. Biden will announce he has had to drop out because of an acute scalp infection. Mark my words…

30. marisacat - 8 September 2008

HA! via Weekly Standard (wear a rainhat!), what a laugh.

The Boss and I both found David Axelrod’s Fox News Sunday declaration, “We’re not running against Governor Palin,” to be rather pregnant with implications. After ten days of wild and sometimes unnervingly insane thrashing, the Obama campaign has decided to cease its hostilities against Sarah Palin and beat a manly retreat. [except they did not! Ob still at it! — Mcat]

Of course, much damage has already been done – to the Obama campaign, not Palin. In the preceding days, Barack Obama himself had gone on the attack against Sarah Palin. The top of the ticket attacking the bottom of the other ticket is unprecedented. Did Ronald Reagan attack Geraldine Ferraro? Did Bill Clinton go after Jack Kemp? It’s a rule in politics that you only aim up; by aiming down, Barack Obama diminished himself. By whining about being picked on by a girl and manfully vowing that he would not allow said girl to bully him, he diminished himself further. It’s hard to believe given the way the Obama campaign has determinedly machine-gunned its foot that Palin has only been part of the ticket for ten days. ::snip::

31. marisacat - 8 September 2008

LOL Now KGO is screaming that she will “drag religious issues into the WH”

Been reading about Ob, over the past months? (That was rhetorical) And for all his owrk and many millions spent he still polling at 24% with evangelicals, even with Kerry.

32. liberalcatnip - 8 September 2008

Sarah Palin is afraid of cats, according to her friends on Nightline.

I sense an opening there…mwahahaha.

33. mattes - 8 September 2008

…damn cat hater.

34. cad - 9 September 2008

I still think Palin is going to get hoisted by her past petards.
And I can’t imagine there are that many Clinton supporters ready to bow before an anti-choice fundamentalist. I expect somebody to ask her a question about book banning.

But McCain is kicking back coasting.

35. cad - 9 September 2008

And the latest purge on DK is against “chicken littles” i.e., anybody who dares to question the O campaign. Round them up! Order must be preserved! With us or against us…

36. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Charlie has a pretty good rt on Fannie Freddie.. Floyyd Norris, Nouriel Roubini and Gretchen Morgenson…

37. marisacat - 9 September 2008

I don’t think Clinton supporters, of the Democratic swipe, were the objective. Frankly.

I do hear and read that Democrtic males, of the consultant, pundit sort are nervous. .
God knows they are pushing abortion and SC as teh bottom line. And it is old.

The issues with the librarian would be cleaner, from an opposition point, had the silly list not been used. It makes it too easy fro her to brandish that… I think some cracking of the huge Dem party push against her is one of the reasons they are letting a lot of drag time between her entrance and a sit down.

38. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008
39. Heather-Rose Ryan - 9 September 2008

32/33 – yeah that’s definiitely a nice angle. “She hates cats!”

Can’t improve upon that.

34. cad: yes, I think so too. The same goes for Obama. He’s toting around a lot of petards and eventually they’ll burst in his face.

40. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

39. I’d offer you a piece of cheesecake but I’d be afraid that whoever pissed in your Corn Flakes would piss on that as well.

And with that, I’m off.

41. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Lipstick, hockey moms, moose meat, earmarks, the “bridge to nowhere”—even McCain as war hero—together offer a brew of identity politics, cultural resentment and knee-jerk hostility to government, all designed to distract voters from the issues that would otherwise define this year’s electoral combat. McCain may be wealthy and house-rich, but unlike Obama, who wears his intellect on his sleeve, he and Palin are not what Lyndon Johnson used to call the “Harvards.” Even Palin’s daughter, 17 and in a family way, provides a cultural distraction, mightily pleasing the Republican base in the process.

hmm in all seriousness they need a couple of new, sharp punches, easy to tell, easy to sell. If they have not found them by now, they need to soon.

But, that was Shrum, his batting: many speeches, 8 senators (one was JEdwards) and 0 presidents.

42. NYCO - 9 September 2008

Ah, the Pritzkers. Veddy rich, veddy secretive. For some reason the main thing that pops into my head is the strange secret identity of Liesl Matthews, child actress… she’s one of the Pritzker kids. Filthy rich. So rich she needed to sue her parents… or her cousins, or some such thing.. over the inheritance. Shouldn’t there be a rule in Hollywood that the fabulously wealthy not get to be movie stars? That doesn’t seem fair to the rest of the starlets.

43. wilfred - 9 September 2008

America is making new friends in Pakistan. Those pilotless drones are fantastic ambassadors!

The missile attack, about 10:20 a.m., killed 23 people, including 8 children, and wounded at least 18, according to accounts of the intelligence officials. The strike hit the compound run by Sirajuddin Haqqani, the son of Jalaluddin Haqqani, whom the United States has accused of organizing some of the most serious recent attacks in Afghanistan against American and NATO forces and of masterminding a failed assassination attempt against the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai.
It appeared that neither man was present at the compound during the attack. Among those killed were one of Jalaluddin Haqqani’s two wives, his sister, sister-in-law and eight of his grandchildren…

44. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Project for Excellence in Journalism study of the past week’s media coverage finds Palin dominated, being a main factor in 60% of campaign stories.

McCain followed, beating out Obama for the first time in weeks with 52%. Obama was a key figure in 22% of election coverage, while Biden got 2%.

45. NYCO - 9 September 2008

A pretty good article by Aziz Rana on the Obama candidacy, professionalism, and the voters he can’t seem to court:


(I caught this by way of a post by David Sirota, who says Rana is on target, but that he’s being too personally mean to Obama. Whatever.)

46. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Just heard Steffie, Obama numbers on “change” falling. From 32 pt lead to 12 pt lead. He needed to crack that “maverick” label, instead McC hardened it and he is moving in on change.

Somebody, smarten up.

47. wilfred - 9 September 2008

Republicans and their corporate owned media mantra 2 weeks ago:

Celebrity is very bad, Obama is a celebrity.

Republicans and their corporate owned media 1 week ago:

Rock Stars are great, Palin is a rock star.

The jig has been up for years, the Republicans own the MSM and play the tune and the masses dance to it. The medium is the message, own the medium and you own the message.

48. marisacat - 9 September 2008

The last graf from NYCO’s link in #45

From 1932 until 1968, the Democratic Party rested on two descriptions of American life—the American dream as embodied by the rural farmer and the industrial worker. It gained sustenance from a respect for these accounts of middle-class achievement, economic independence, and democratic inclusion. Today’s party, however, has given up on establishing new forms of solidarity for nonprofessional citizens. All it has to offer is a lose-lose proposition: join the competition for professional status and cultural privilege at a severe disadvantage, or don’t join it at all. The party holds on to the social programs of the past, but in ever more truncated form. It presents a politics of consensus while ignoring the fact of basic division. If Obama hopes to save his party and to address the interests and experiences of working-class citizens, he will have to challenge the hegemony of the professional and with it the closing of the American dream. The question is whether he and those around him are interested in this task, or whether they are determined to recycle the failed homilies of postwar liberalism and meritocratic success.

49. marisacat - 9 September 2008

I personally want Obama to win so I don’t hve to hear the whining.

50. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Marie Cocco. Who laughs last laughs very hard indeed.

“She not only energized the Republican base,” a longtime Democratic campaign veteran told me. “She is going to make a real run for the Reagan Democrats.”

The liberal bloggers who seem to spend hours each day (do these people ever work?) tapping their self-determined political wisdom into their computers hold Reagan Democrats in contempt, of course. Throughout the primaries, when working class white voters in states such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, — and yes, in the botched Michigan contest — voted for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama, the reason the bloggers invariably cited was racism. They mocked Clinton’s argument that these very states were pivotal to anyone who hoped to win the electoral votes necessary to gain the White House. The counterargument of the chatterboxes — and indeed, of the Obama campaign — was that Obama would run a “50-state campaign” that would upend all the old calculations and coalitions.

Well, guess what? The electoral map for this fall looks, with few exceptions, an awful lot like it always has. Whoever wins two of these three big, aging and economically stressed Rust Belt states is likely to be the next president. […]

A long long time ago, Howard’s idea of a “50 state strategy” actually meant soemthing. But it quickly reduced to chatter about ringing doorbells and hanging flyers on doors. Then with Obama, imo, it became a talking point.

And from where I sat, he made this very clear. A biiig mistake.

McCain must make the breathtakingly hypocritical argument that those who have run things into the ground these past eight years should be trusted to dig us out. Obama has to run with the baggage he brings from the primaries — that is, the lingering resentment among white, working class voters toward a candidate who seemed to believe he could win without them.

51. NYCO - 9 September 2008

All it has to offer is a lose-lose proposition: join the competition for professional status and cultural privilege at a severe disadvantage, or don’t join it at all.

This NYT thread on student loans hints that the natives may be getting restless about that plan.


52. NYCO - 9 September 2008

50. Obama’s “Western strategy” seems to be more anemic than hoped for (that’s what the “50 state strategy” turned into), maybe because McCain managed to find a VP who energizes Western voters. I’ve never understood what Obama’s “Western strategy” was, exactly — it seemed more like a “Western expectation.”

53. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

45. Biden got 2%.

During the DNC, the pundits kept waiting and waiting for the red meat moments and I recall that a couple of them on MSNBC were sure that Obama wouldn’t and shouldn’t be the one to provide it during his speech. Besides Kerry’s speech, it turned out that Obama actually turned out to be the butcher of sorts and he’s awkwardly continued since the Palin announcement, as so many pundits/analysts/commenters have pointed out. That may turn out to be a net negative for him considering Palin’s honeymoon-like popularity while Biden turns into the invisible VP candidate. That begs the question: had Biden been muzzled to stop him from saying yet another boneheaded, off the cuff remark that he’s so prone to? I suppose the VP debates will answer part of that.

54. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

And you think your elections are fun? Pooping puffin pulled from Tory ad lol

55. marisacat - 9 September 2008

[W]hile American special forces and military contractors have conducted raids in Pakistan, such actions were rare and required Cabinet-level approval. In July, the leadership of Central Command [Patraeus — Mcat], which oversees the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, was given the sole authority to approve ground assaults in Pakistan. Late last month, the American military began launching ground attacks in the country on a near daily basis, depending on local conditions and intelligence, according to a military official who requested anonymity. […]

56. AlanSmithee - 9 September 2008

I personally want Obama to win so I can hear pwoggies whining about how unfair everyone is being about the war in Pakistan.

57. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

Did you catch Woodward on Larry King last nite?

KING: You contend the president has locked in the current strategy in Iraq, so much so that even after he leaves office, it’s going to be hard to change it. Is that true?

WOODWARD: Yes, that is, because he has put General Petraeus, who moves up in about — in about a week to be the central commander. And then General Odierno will be the Iraq commander and these are people who have been very successful in Iraq. They’re popular and respected in the Congress. And Petraeus is one of the people who really understood the war, and figured out what to do. So he will be general commander. As my old boss at the Post used to said, he’s fireproof. They can’t fire him or change him unless he voluntarily wants to leave. He has a very fixed view about what to do, what the strategy should be, and that they should maximize the number of forces there.

58. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Pakistan will be “Obama’s War” just as, had Kerry won, Iraq would have become “Kerry’s War” and been defended to the last drop of thin worn out “liberal” blood.

59. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Yeah it is pretty clear we are stuck with Petraeus… as well as, I ssupect, Odierno.

Not that the Democrats should they scrape in, have any better ideas.

What a fucking turd pile. Really.

60. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

Well you have a puppet leader in Afghanistan and a new one in Pakistan now so it seems whatever the US military wants to get away with, it will. With Obama’s plan to ramp up the action in that region, we Canadians will see a lot more casualties and the mounting number of civilian deaths – the “collateral damage” – will only continue to be out of control.

61. wilfred - 9 September 2008

Iraq and Afghanistan will always be Bush’s War. It bleeds over into the whole region so Pakistan and Iran will be the bastard children of Bush’s War. He proudly owns them lock stock and barrel, the wound he makes that will keep on bleeding.

I wonder if they are playing out scenarios with North Korea today if they really think Kim Jung-il had a stroke.

62. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

E-mail from factcheck.org – Sliming Palin:

We’ve been flooded for the past few days with queries about dubious Internet postings and mass e-mail messages making claims about McCain’s running mate, Gov. Palin. We find that many are completely false, or misleading.

* Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years.

* She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin’s first term.

* She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.

* Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a “courtesty” when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.

* Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska’s schools. She has said that students should be allowed to “debate both sides” of the evolution question, but she also said creationism “doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.”

A few of these claims were included in a chain e-mail by a woman named Anne Kilkenny. We’ll be looking into other charges in that e-mail for a future story. For more explanation of the bullet points above, please read the Analysis.

Note: This is a summary only. The full article with analysis, images and citations may be viewed on our Web site…

63. marisacat - 9 September 2008

McCain and Palin in the WSJ on Fannie and Freddie.

Juan Cole in Salon (fast single screen ad) on Palin as muslim fundie wtih liptsick.

64. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

Bush reshuffles war zone troops

US President George W Bush has announced that about 8,000 US troops will be withdrawn from Iraq by February – with 4,500 being sent to Afghanistan.

He argued that reduced violence levels in Iraq allowed for a “quiet surge” of troops in Afghanistan.

February? Will he ever let go of his presidency? Not that it matters since Obama, if he wins, was planning to send more troops to Afghanistan anyway. They’re all the same – the whole lot of them.

65. wilfred - 9 September 2008

File this under ‘a phrase I never thought i’d live to see’, David Brooks writes today in the NY Times:

The Republicans are intellectually unfit to govern right now,

66. NYCO - 9 September 2008

It all doesn’t matter because the world ends tomorrow at 3:30 a.m. Eastern anyway. We will all congeal.

67. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

More Woodward on Larry King. I found this bit interesting but disturbing. Who knows what they’re up to?

KING: All right. You discuss other factors in the success of the surge. And one of the things that’s gotten a lot of attention was the discussion of top secret operations. You wouldn’t discuss it last night on “60 Minutes.”

I understand — I didn’t see “The Washington Post” today — there’s a little more explanation of it in “The Washington Post” — that we have things we are doing that are — for want of a better word — incredible in assessing and learning knowledge of the enemy.

Can you tell us a little bit about it?

WOODWARD: I would love to. As a reporter, all my instincts say let’s tell the story. When I learned about it, asked senior people in the White House — senior people in the military. They said — it wasn’t a matter of request. They said you can’t write about this. This will get people killed. This accounts for a good portion — there’s a debate about what proportion — but a good portion of our success.

And when you look at the data and you see what they can do in these operations, it’s astounding. I somewhat compare it to the Manhattan Project in World War II, which led to the atomic bomb.

KING: With the atom bomb.

WOODWARD: It was a big explosion.

KING: Wow!

WOODWARD: In this case, there’s not going to be a big explosion. There’s going a drop off in violence and targeted killing of people who are the enemy leaders. And if you look at the chart, it’s a ski slope right down, in a matter of months, cutting the violence in half. This isn’t going to happen with the bunch of joint security stations or the surge. These top secret operations, which someday in history will be described to peoples’ amazement.

KING: When will we learn of them?

WOODWARD: I don’t know. I mean, that’s — that is up to others. I sat with a four star general and described what I knew about this. And I rarely have seen the blood actually drain from somebody’s face. But [sic] did in this case. And he said you just cannot write about them.

And I see why. And — but it’s a factor in all of this. It is a wonderful example of American ingenuity solving a problem in war, as we often have.

KING: And it’s being used right now?

WOODWARD: It certainly is.

68. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Gotta love it. Palin coming west to fundraise, an event to be held at the Woodside home of Gavin Newsome’s BIL.

We are so liberal out here..

69. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008
70. wilfred - 9 September 2008

#66 Should we rent “The Day the Earth Stood Still”?

71. marisacat - 9 September 2008


it has to be some form of genocide. Something beyond the massive killing that we know about.. a new unpublicised weapon?

I jsut don’t know.

72. NYCO - 9 September 2008

67. Why should we believe Woodward?

73. marisacat - 9 September 2008

there is that, he’s long been a drama queen and dissembler.

74. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

Why should we believe Woodward?

Why not? Could be true, couldn’t it? I was thinking something along the lines of RFID chips or massive wiretapping in the houses they’ve “cleared” over there while looking for supposed terrorists. Who knows?

75. lucid - 9 September 2008

it has to be some form of genocide.

And don’t you love how he contextualizes it as

It is a wonderful example of American ingenuity solving a problem in war, as we often have.

Thinking up new ways to kill people has never qualified as ingenuity in my book…

76. marisacat - 9 September 2008

and all we “mismanage” is that incredibly wonderful ingenuity of ours.

We are so certifiably insane.

77. NYCO - 9 September 2008

So why is Woodward blabbing about it on TV with such a tone? He’s talking about it like it’s a cool new bit of technology that Apple’s come up with, that we’ll all get to find out about during Steve Jobs’ next stage appearance.

This isn’t journalism.

78. marisacat - 9 September 2008

The polls “swing wildly” and have over the course of his long campaign, he said. “One of the benefits of having run a 19-month race is that we have been through all kinds of twists and turns,” he said.

… but there is only 7 weeks left. I think now the Ob camp has to count on a huge unforced error, on her part. Something far beyond per diems, the curlicues of state business and family feuds.

Because they re fucking tone deaf.

79. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

77. So why is Woodward blabbing about it on TV with such a tone?

Ego would be my guess – a la he knows something very few others do. I just find that tidbit very disturbing.

80. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

75. Thinking up new ways to kill people has never qualified as ingenuity in my book…

Well, yes. And it also undermines the so-called success of the surge that we actually know about, doesn’t it?

I would guess that Obama’s also aware of what Woodward knows since he started receiving classified briefings after he officially accepted the nomination. New & improved “targeted killings” are a thing to brag about? I find all of it disgusting.

81. Heather-Rose Ryan - 9 September 2008

re: Woodward’s “secret weapon”: one rumor I’ve heard for the past couple of years is that they’re developing sonic/ultrasonic weapons.

82. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

81. Which just reminded me of this.

83. NYCO - 9 September 2008

New & improved “targeted killings” are a thing to brag about?

Well, yes, if you are at war and you are a general, yes they are.

But Woodward isn’t a general. He’s supposed to be a journalist. If national security dictates he shut up, fine. But he’s not shutting up; he’s acting like a tech geek who gets embargoed releases. A real journalist wouldn’t have such a public hardon for techno-death. He is so totally on the side of power, not on the side of citizens (ours or theirs).

He’s evil.

84. mattes - 9 September 2008

#83…you know it has to do with nano technology.

85. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

50 – she’s pretty right, except for one thing. The Reagan Democrats ARE contemptable. Willful ignorance and cultural bigotry masquerading as “patriotism” isn’t admirable.

86. mattes - 9 September 2008

nano technology:

If computers could control the nervous system through neuro-electronic interface, problems that impair the system could be controlled so that effects of diseases and injuries could be overcome.


List of nanotechnology topics


We can only guess what nefarious activities they are up to.


87. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

66 – Well, if we’re lucky we’ll just be trapped in the event horizon and we’ll never know that the black hole has absorbed our corner of the universe and we fall forever into it …

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

Fuck Woodward … if he really knows something he should share it. Of course, he’s nothing but a propagandist for the eternal gov, and frankly I think he’s talking out his ass.

89. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

82 – it reminded me of this.

90. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

Oh, and Danger Room, the military tech blog over at Wired, has a theory about Woodward’s “secret”: What Is Woodward’s ‘Secret Weapon’ in Iraq?

I’m going to make a wager about what I think Woodward is talking about, and I’ll be curious to see what Danger Room readers have to say. I believe he is talking about the much ballyhooed (in defense geek circles) “Tagging, Tracking and Locating” program; here’s a briefing on it from Special Operations Command. These are newfangled technologies designed to track people from long distances, without the targeted people realizing they are being tracked. That can theoretically include thermal signatures, or some sort of “taggant” placed on a person. Think Will Smith in Enemy of the State. Well, not so many cameras, maybe.

Why do I think this is the technology Woodward is referring to? Well, first, because it pretty much fits the bill, in terms of the type of capability he appears to be talking about. It has involvement from a number of players, including the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency and Special Operations Command. Also, the Defense Science Board has talked about this capability in similar terms, saying “the global war on terrorism cannot be won without a ‘Manhattan Project’-like TTL [tagging, tracking, and locating] program.”

Do I, however, think that there really has been some great big breakthrough, that, in Woodward’s words, is the equivalent of the “advent of the tank and the airplane?” Or, in the case of the Manhattan Project comparison, the atomic bomb? I don’t know what Woodward has been presented with, or what he knows of these capabilities, but I’m not convinced it’s as dramatic a technological breakthrough as he seems to suggest. That said, I suppose it could be, but it looks like we’ll have to wait to see more details.

91. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

Danger Room post on secret weapons in moderation, I think.

92. wilfred - 9 September 2008

BBC International Poll, for what it’s worth:


93. wilfred - 9 September 2008

#88 The thing that occurred to me is the logical question to Woodward would be “Do you think any portion of America or the International community would have a moral problem with this weapon?”

No such luck getting that question , this interview is just another way to hype his new book.

Funny but the first thing I thought was the supersonic thing too. Something like an infra-red device that can image people inside a building and then do something specific like liquify their insides or stop their heart or brain. Whatever it is, how long before this thing ends up in the weapons market to the highest bidder? I wonder if they have slipped this to Blackwater already?

94. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

They haven’t been handing out air fresheners in Iraq, have they?

95. marisacat - 9 September 2008

wilfred and Madman out of moderation. Sorry, if it took a while..

… 8) ….

96. marisacat - 9 September 2008

On a funner front, the union of prisons guards, large and powerful an entity any governor has to make a deal with (Monty Hall!) is angling to recall Arnold. Some big SNAFU’d FUBAR to do with our months overdue (70 days) budget.

So amusing in a sick ironic way, I cannot tell you. Will see what reporting I can find.

97. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

90. That’s why I mentioned RFID chips. I don’t know a lot about that type of technology but the tracking/tagging part of that post fits what I was wondering about.

98. marisacat - 9 September 2008

LOL Thank god he is a Libertarian. The Dems would grandly disown him and keep Lieberman. The ironies in thsi race are a mile a minute.

99. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008

It just never ends, does it?

Obama: ‘Lipstick on a pig’

UPDATE: The McCain campaign is now saying Obama called Palin a pig, which he didn’t. The Obama campaign notes that “lipstick on a pig” is a fairly common idiom Obama often uses, as in a recent Washington Post interview. McCain has also used the phrase.

Though on a day when Obama’s surrogates were joking that Palin’s record can’t be concealed with lipstick, it was hard for those following the campaign not to hear the echo.

100. diane - 9 September 2008

27 You’re welcome catnip!


94 Gee another recall in Cali? Well there are certainly plenty Titans with Hummer fleets or Honda Prius SUV’s (if there is such a thing) who’ll be slobbering and knifing each other to stand in those shoes…


Re the latest and most lethal ‘toys’ – the poor souls among us who are the test groups for them, because ya know, there are always test groups.

I’ll never forget that creepy woman interviewed about the plutonium injections which were part of the Manhatten Project….an utter disregard for humanity….

101. liberalcatnip - 9 September 2008
102. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

101 – The donks say you’re good enough, strong enuff, and gawd-darned it, people like you!

Until he loses to one of the most useless Republican members of Congress.

That whirring sound you hear is Wellstone spinning in his grave.

103. marisacat - 9 September 2008

which useless R used to be a Democrat.

Impossible to follow wihtout a scorecard.

104. mattes - 9 September 2008

I’m sure nanos could be used as a tracking device. They could inject them under our skin and we’d never know. Even have them self destruct and take the subject along.

105. marisacat - 9 September 2008

fwiw, Jake Tapper on the pig and the litpstick and the Democrtic candidate.

Everybody and their pet pig begged Ob to not engage her, but he did.

106. marisacat - 9 September 2008

Iraq, as much as war zone, is a lab.

107. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2008

we treat the world as a lab.

108. marisacat - 9 September 2008

gnu thredddd…


……………………. 8) ……………………

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