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So… little girl… 17 September 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Abortion Rights, DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Italy, Sex / Reproductive Health, WAR!.
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Cat Mouse – AFP/Getty

So.. little girl… how will you be voting?

That seems to be the atmosphere all about. Tho I read that white men in Ohio are shifting to, or back to, Ob. I am wondering if those men have whiplash… perhaps they did not like Hillary a few months ago, talked their way to McC, then whoops the VPessa pick (for real) and now have to talk themselves into Ob.

It all could get tiring… this is much more complicated than ordering a dessert with three flavors of ice cream, of your choice…. Or is it?

McClatchy put up a run thru of some recent Leno stabs (in addition to relating that SNL had the highest viewership in 6 years for the Palin Clinton skit, not sure what, if anything, that means)… here are the last 4 or 5

They also revealed that Sarah’s husband Todd, who works in the oil field…His Secret Service code name is “driller.” I guess they figured Bill Clinton wasn’t using it anymore.

And as you know they’ve already come out with a Sarah Palin action figure. Today the Democrats released a Joe Biden action figure, and it talks…and talks…and talks… You can’t get the thing to shut up.

And the other day while talking to a group of supporters, Joe Biden said that Hillary Clinton might have been a better pick for vice president than him. Yeah, that’s one way to get the base fired up, huh? Tell them they picked the wrong person.

And according to an AP article in the paper today, Sarah Palin’s church in Alaska is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer. They call it “pray away the gay.” It’s a lot better than the original title: “Think outside the bun.”

And Charles Rangel, Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, the guy who writes the tax codes. He has been found to be in default on taxes on income of a beach villa that he owns in the caribbean. Rangel blamed it on his accountant and then said he didn’t understand the law. Didn’t understand it? He wrote it! If he don’t understand it how screwed are we?

We are surrounded by and with slap happy half dead spin. Need better comics. When the first Gulf War was going, in ’91, I dropped in on Saturday Night Live, which I had not seen in years. Imagine my shock… when the jokes were essentially pro war.

I don’t remember anymore what year Sinead O’Connor tore up, on camera, before a live audience on SNL, a photo of JPII. Who better than an Irish woman? It seemed minor to me as I watched her do it, but very appropriate. Imagine my surprise the next day.

I see imdb says it was ’92

Love the sense of panic in this short take on it at imdb and the quick move to revisionist history…

In the 3 October 1992 episode, musical guest Sinéad O’Connor caused a huge international stir when, after singing an a capella version of Bob Marley‘s War, she tore up a photograph of Pope John Paul II and shouted, “Fight the real enemy!”. The audience sat in stunned silence, and in the control room Lorne Michaels ordered that the “Applause” sign NOT be turned on. The incident prompted over 6,000 viewer complaints. The following week (10 October 1992), host Joe Pesci held up the restored photo during his opening monologue. In the repeats of the infamous episode, O’Connor’s performance of “War” has been replaced with the dress rehearsal version in which she held up a picture of a little girl, then smiled and bowed after finishing the song. Numerous times after this fiasco, the Saturday Night Live cast would pay mocking tribute to O’Conner by having cast member Jan Hooks play O’Conner, and other characters trying to lighten her up. more

“a huge international stir”… wow… the world itself has bad spin down. Sounds like a B horror movie from the 50s. And only 6K in complaints. Janet’s tit got 200,000 emails. Well, we knew the loons were organising, all these years.

*************************

A quick way to snag information on the bombing of the Embassy in Yemen is… right off the page at The Page!

Blasts Rock U.S. Embassy in Yemen

A car bomb targeting the U.S. Embassy hit the front gate of the compound in Yemen’s capital Wednesday.

Two suspected car bombs detonated and there was an exchange of gunfire between embassy guards and unidentified attackers, according to eyewitnesses. Hundreds of heavily-armed troops have now been deployed around the U.S. embassy compound.

^^^^

zz

file photo – afp/getty

From the CNN report:

[T]rev Mason, a British citizen who witnessed the attack told CNN there was a large explosion and a ball of flames. He said there were reports of lots of casualties.

Mason who lives in a compound opposite the building said he saw “a massive fireball.” Video Listen to witness describe attack »

“We heard the sounds of a heavy gun battle going on,” he told CNN. “I looked out my window, and we saw the first explosion going off — a massive fireball very close to the U.S. Embassy.

“The gun battle went on for a further 10 to 15 minutes, followed by two further loud explosions.”

Mason said emergency services had been on the scene putting out fires.

“The situation is quiet now but obviously very tense,” he said. ::snip::

Shouldn’t we invade Yemen now? Or, at least air bomb it? Just to be sure? Isn’t that it is the “ancestral home of bin Laden” enough?

^^^^^^^^^^^

Intermittent Bystander just added these to the previous thread:

Intermittent Bystander

BBC :

A car bomb and rocket attack on the US embassy in Yemen has killed at least 16 people, including civilians and Yemeni security guards, Yemen officials said.
::snip::
Security sources said six members of the Yemeni security forces, six attackers, and four bystanders were killed in the attack, which occurred at about 0830 (0530 GMT).

WaPo:

“It shook everything in my home,” said Saddam Hussein, a Yemen man living about 200 yards from the embassy. “One big explosion, then smaller explosions, and gunfire.”

The vehicle bomb exploded at the main gate, said embassy spokesman Ryan Gliha. There did not appear to be any major damage to the embassy building, Gliha said.

::snip::
The Yemen embassy has been the target of numerous attacks since 2002. In the most recent assault, three mortar rounds hit a nearby school for girls in March, killing a security guard and injuring about 20 girls and others. Other attacks include one in 2006, when a man armed with an automatic weapon opened fire outside the embassy, saying he wanted to kill Americans. Security forces shot him and captured him, without other injuries.

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1. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

AP on new McCain ad and other scrambling to react to avalanche of economic news.

AP also reporting that Alaskan AG has announced state employees won’t honor Troopergate subpoenas, and in another article, that McCain campaign is clamping down on questions in Alaska.

The McCain campaign is demanding that it becomes the de facto source for answers about the operations of Alaska’s government during the past 20 months.

2. marisacat - 17 September 2008

IB

thanks for that… my screen froze and i had to shut down and reboot, I had planned to move your AP link and comment to the new thread…

😉

yeah, two minute ad. I hve noticed that McCain is running network ads out here, for three weeks now. Interesting, no idea what it means or accomplishes.

3. marisacat - 17 September 2008

we are so liberal out here… in a city neighborhood, for anyone who knows the city, in the Richmond district, 14th and Cabrillo a residential and mixed use district that stretches west to the Pacific Ocean… a bicyclist has been shot. Seems to be a road rage incident. On a city street.. 4 something am in the morning.

4. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

2 – Here’s the AP report on Obama ad, from last thread, with details on Hollywood fundraiser.

Obama buys 2-minute commercial on economy.

“If we can cut through the nonsense and the lipstick and the pigs and the silliness, then I’m absolutely convinced that we’re going to win,” Obama said, speaking over laughter and applause. He said the economic turmoil of recent days had “reminded people that this is not a game. This is not a reality show, no offense to any of you. This is not a sitcom.”

Actors Will Farrell, Leonardo DiCaprio, Jamie Lee Curtis and Jodie Foster were spotted in the audience; waiters said that DreamWorks founders Steven Spielberg, David Geffen and Jeffrey Katzenberg also were in the crowd of 250-300 people who paid $28,500 each.

Later, Obama appeared at a $250-a-person fundraiser with singer-actress Barbra Streisand. She ran through bits of songs, but did not sing entire numbers, for about 15 minutes. That crowd included Ron Howard, Sarah Silverman, Magic Johnson and Pierce Brosnan.

“I’m not in a celebatory mood,” Obama said in remarks that seemed to surprise the upbeat audience.”We are at a defining moment in our history.”

Gotta run. Good luck to everyone, this Wednesday!

5. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

Another one in moderation, and PS – good luck to pigs, especially. AP also has a horrible article on a PETA undercover video of sadistic animal cruelty on an Iowa pig farm.

6. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Horowitz in NYO on ramped up Obama:

]A]t the Pueblo event, after introductions from Obama campaign co-chair Federico Pena (“Barack Obama said this is about you and you and you”) and Mr. Salazar (“You are entitled to live the American dream the way me and Barack Obama have lived the American dream”), Mr. Obama raced up the steps of the stage like a shot and surveyed the 1,300 Coloradans packed into the bleachers and onto the dry, tractor-marked earth.

He quoted Mr. McCain’s remarks about the strong fundamentals of the economy and said, “A few hours ago, John McCain’s campaign sent him back out to clean up his remarks because they thought, well, maybe that’s not going to work out too well.” He chuckled. “He explained that what he really meant, what he really meant to say, was that American workers are strong ::snip::

I’d add, try not to take days off.. there aren’t many left.

AND an overview via NYT on the abortion issue. I had caught both appearances by la Nan and Biden on MTP, and wondered why they said what did…excursions into St Augustine. Whatever!

[A] struggle within the church over how Catholic voters should think about abortion is once again flaring up just as political partisans prepare an all-out battle for the votes of Mass-going Catholics in swing-state towns like Scranton.

The theological dispute is playing out in diocesan newspapers and weekly homilies, while the campaigns scramble to set up phone banks of nuns and private meetings with influential bishops.

Progressive Catholics complain that by wading into the history of church opposition to abortion — Mr. Biden brought up St. Thomas Aquinas, Ms. Pelosi discussed St. Augustine — Democratic officials are starting a distracting debate with the church hierarchy.

Some tidbits in the article, not least of which is the vision of the campaigns revving up “phone banking nuns”.

7. marisacat - 17 September 2008

NYT says Ob raised 11 million in Hollywood… LOL wonder how often he mentioned Palin. A lot, would be my guess. More than Wall St.

8. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Yeah what a shock

Here’s a discomfiting thought: All along, one assumption has animated the Fannie and Freddie bailout: If their debt is seen as Treasury debt, all will be well with their mortgage funding.

What if the assumption is wrong? What if the world’s investors, seeing the federal government willy nilly expanding its commitments in all directions, begins to lose appetite for Treasury debt itself?

One thing seems likely: At this late date, concern for “moral hazard” was more a matter of political sound effects in an election year rather than a practical strategy for improving the efficiency of financial markets. The time to send such signals is before the crunch, so businesses, politicians and investors have accurate expectations.

Now two principles will drive the Fed: to protect its political flank and its vaunted if somewhat theoretical “independence” to conduct monetary policy; and to keep its powder dry for the ructions ahead. We may yet have a chance to learn if an unrescued giant financial institution is the systemic earthquake we’ve all feared.

fun times ahead…………..

9. NYCO - 17 September 2008

The fun’s not over yet… Money market funds have started to fail.

link to Bloomberg

10. NYCO - 17 September 2008

9. Correction: FUND. Although there have been rumors that more than one MMF is facing “breaking the buck.”

11. marisacat - 17 September 2008

LOL may their clocks collide

THE DAILY DAMIEN — The DNC today launched a ‘McCain Press Watch’ – a counter showing the number of days, minutes and hours since Senator McCain last met the press. 34 days …

CLOCK BLOCKED – The RNC starts a ‘Biden Earmark Clock.’ (‘Time Since Joe Biden Was Asked to Release His Earmarks.’) Makes a tasteful companion to, ‘Time Since Biden’s Last Gaffe.’

12. Heather-Rose Ryan - 17 September 2008

From the NYT article MCat cited:

And last fall, the bishops revised their official statement on voting priorities to explicitly allow Catholics to vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights if they do so for other reasons.

This is eerily similar to the Dem-operatives attack on abortion-rights advocates as “single-issue voters”. The pressure is on voters to stop thinking about women’s rights as a priority when they make their voting choice. In fact it would be better if they didn’t think about the subject at all – far too dangerous. Only focus on women when you want to control them for the purposes of your own agenda.

As for Sinead and the Pope: I have an Irish friend (now a permanent US resident) whose first marriage, back in Ireland, was to an alcoholic who physically and psychologically abused her. When she finally decided to divorce him after several years of marriage, her priest came to her family’s home where she had taken refuge, and “counseled” her – he told her that she had to forgive her husband and take him back because doubtless she brought the abuse on herself by not being a good enough woman and wife. My friend told the priest to get the fuck out, and she never attended church again.

This was only about 15 years ago.

We are still in the Dark Ages. Although we’ve made some progress climbing out of that hole, there are plenty of people who are trying to push us back down.

13. marisacat - 17 September 2008

We can have some hearings, but not others!

YOU READ IT FIRST ON POLITICO – LATER ANNOUNCED BY SPEAKER PELOSI:

‘I have asked Chairman Barney Frank of the Financial Services Committee and Chairman Henry Waxman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee to hold a series of hearings that will examine the Bush Administration’s mismanagement of financial market regulation and how it led us to this remarkable failure. The questions we need answers to are whether fraud played a role in AIG’s failure; why foreign stakeholders are not contributing to help pay for the bailout; and why the Bush Administration didn’t use its existing regulatory authority effectively and sooner.’

CHAIRMAN WAXMAN WROTE A LETTER YESTERDAY TO LEHMAN BROTHERS CEO RICHARD FULD, ASKING HIM TO APPEAR NEXT THURSDAY, 9/25: ‘The hearing will examine the regulatory mistakes and financial excesses that led to yesterday’s bankruptcy filing by Lehman Brothers. The Committee will also explore the impacts of the Lehman bankruptcy on financial markets and the United States economy.’

CHAIRMAN FRANK HAS A HEARING WITH ECONOMISTS NEXT WEDNESDAY, 9/24, ‘to begin a conversation about where we go with the capital markets,’ according to an aide: ‘The markets are not self-correcting. If they continue to not self-correct over the next several months, is there a federal response? There might be more federal intervention that’s needed. We’ll proceed cautiously, and that would be next year.’

… from the Politico eamil

14. marisacat - 17 September 2008

12

in one of the articles in teh UK press about the institution of Sharia courts for family and similar disputes, 4 out of 5 women whose cases of abuse or discord were enough that cops were involved, once Sharia courts enter the picture, drop their cases.

Obviously cases get dropped for all sorts of reasons… but 4 out of 5 is a lot.

15. Heather-Rose Ryan - 17 September 2008

Every cloud has a silver lining, it’s an ill wind that blows no good, etc. etc.: Gay bar becomes a haven

The first of two bars to reopen after Ike’s onslaught on Saturday, Robert’s Lafitte is a haven in the storm — for gays, straights, anyone who needs a place to drink and find comfort.

[…]

Big Mouth Robert, the establishment’s owner and a former female impersonator, said the bar took 3 feet (1 meter) of water and closed when Ike’s fury blew out the windows. But after a mop-up the next morning, Robert’s Lafitte was back in business.

[…]

The bar is setting out food donated by locals for people in need. Some 20,000 people are thought to be still on the island and food and water are scarce.

“It’s more than a life saver. This is like the Coast Guard,” said Brian DeLeon, a straight restaurant worker who had not visited the bar before.

“These are the people who take you up out of the water and make life livable. Once I get back to work, I’m coming back here.”

16. NYCO - 17 September 2008

wow, all hell breaking loose on Wall Street today. AIG bailout did not help at all. Down almost 400 and it’s barely after noon…

17. marisacat - 17 September 2008

I just heard down 295 so it must have slide fast

18. marisacat - 17 September 2008

NYT has a “stocks dive in early trading” story up

[S]hares of A.I.G. shed another 44 percent even after the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department decided to prop up the ailing insurer with an $85 billion loan. Shareholders in the company appeared to be worried that their value would be wiped out by the deal. Federal officials took the extraordinary measures after fears arose that a collapse at A.I.G. could set off catastrophic consequences in the global financial system.Treasury prices fell as the rescue of A.I.G. raised concern that the government will have to issue more debt to shore up financial markets. And the cost of borrowing overnight dollars spiked overnight in the inter-bank lending market in Europe.

European stocks, which had been up slightly before Wall Street opened, fell back. An early rally in Asia lost steam on concerns about the American financial system and China’s economy.::snip::

19. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Asia Times has several pieces up, this rides at the top, below it is a background piece on AIG in China… There are references to people dumping their AIG coverage for cash…

[A]way from the US, banks are falling like flies across the world including in the UK, where one of the largest, HBOS, has been suspended after falling over 60% in two days. (Lloyds TBS Group Plc, the UK’s biggest provider of checking accounts, was in talks Wednesday to buy HBOS, Bloomberg reported, citing two people familiar with the situation.) Similarly, the decline in emerging markets have only accelerated of late, while Russian shares are being “punished” for the Georgia misadventure. Other stock markets in China, Brazil and elsewhere haven’t done a whole lot better. Chinese authorities cut interest rates and reserve requirements this week to provide a boost to the economy, while the Russian central bank is mulling the creation of a wealth fund to invest in its domestic stock market. The notion of “every man for himself” will soon be reality. ::snip::

****

Also there is a move on via our new budget (which Arnold veto’d, and it is close to 90 days overdue) to withhold an additional 10% from paychecks with a refund at the end of the year. In lieu of a sales tax raise… Sounds lame and tenuous to me… People are freaking via calls to KGO.

20. NYCO - 17 September 2008

Hilarious comment over at Calculated Risk from commenter “President Sarah Palin” –

I will now speak in tongues xckkejnmxb ammsye wjjdn wm,liyuye jajjh,dlduuduh dyt3kjjkjhlla msjvkghkh bnjbhj,mkjjkjjxjjlllllbb wjywun eh. I can see Russia from my house. I can see 1929 from my house.

21. marisacat - 17 September 2008

hmm from the NYT link… a search for the bottom?

“I think everyday is sui generis now,” Douglas M. Peta, market strategist at J. & W. Seligman & Company, a brokerage firm. “Every 30-minute segment might be.”

22. marisacat - 17 September 2008

19

LOL keep her from teh windows.. or on second thought………………….

23. CSTAR - 17 September 2008

Is this a joke?

If it isn’t a hoax, as someone here likes to say, “good luck to someone”

24. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

13. That one made me sign up at Politico so I could leave a comment about Obama’s flip flop on panels.

Hearings? We don’t need no stinkin’ hearings!!

25. marisacat - 17 September 2008

22

I cannot sort it out.. they use the logo, or what looks like the logo. Seems like somehting that might not catch on. Or, you could hang it from your white or yellow rubber bracelet.

gah

26. Heather-Rose Ryan - 17 September 2008

22. I like the photo of the three Airedales. “Airedales for Obama”

27. Heather-Rose Ryan - 17 September 2008

25 – people could put it through their noses, to enable them to be even more easily led.

28. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

4.

She ran through bits of songs, but did not sing entire numbers, for about 15 minutes.

What a rip off.

Kind of reminds me of the way the Dems operate in general though.

29. lucid - 17 September 2008

What a rip off.

Well, they were only charging $250. Babs doesn’t do a full set unless tickets are $2,500.

30. marisacat - 17 September 2008

well one part o f th e night, was $28,500

I think that was at Greystone, the much used set mansion..

31. lucid - 17 September 2008

well one part o f th e night, was $28,500

an above the median annual salary for many areas of the country…

32. marisacat - 17 September 2008

.. and Ob commented on the noblesse of all that oblige, too. And, remember this is an oft used effing movie set.

33. marisacat - 17 September 2008

The Dow Jones tumbles nearly 400 points– more than 3%– in afternoon trading.

The financial sector again leads the charge down.

34. NYCO - 17 September 2008

How’d ya like this quote from Harry Reid today?

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) — Congress is unlikely to pass new legislation to overhaul financial regulations this year “because no one knows what to do,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters today.

35. aemd - 17 September 2008

Jebbus, gold took off today. Flight to safety??

BTW, love the pic at the top of the post along with the post title.

36. lucid - 17 September 2008

34 – now that’s some strong leadership!

37. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Give ’em hell Harry…

dropped his shorts and the view was not great. What a loon.

38. CSTAR - 17 September 2008

30 well one part o f th e night, was $28,500

Does that include anything, um, special?

39. marisacat - 17 September 2008

i think it inclded a catered dinner which sounded pretty prosaic, i thought…

40. lucid - 17 September 2008

Does that include anything, um, special?

I’m eating lunch… please don’t spoil my appetite.

41. marisacat - 17 September 2008

listening to Greenberg the former CEO of AIG on the Charlie Rose repeat. Complicated story… He claims it was AIG Financial Products that got into trouble, as opposed ot other parts of the company.

What a mess.

42. marisacat - 17 September 2008

35

LOL the photo is actually of some sort of smell sensitivity training for the cat brigade. Apparently in Bolivia they are used to suss out bombs.

I rather think tho that instinctively the cat and little white mouse know each other’s scent..

43. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Greenberg is sayiing there is no Naitonal Federal Regulator for ins companies. Well whew, what a shock.

44. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

43. I watched him last nite and thought it was pretty arrogant of him to act like he knew what to do about the company’s problems when, under his tenure, it reported a loss of $5 billion in the first quarter of this year (which I read about somewhere yesterday).

45. marisacat - 17 September 2008

A hacker got hold of the Palin Yahoo acct that she used for state business. chew munch chew.

46. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

Women to rule Rwanda parliament

Rwanda will be the first country where women will outnumber men in parliament, preliminary election results show.

47. marisacat - 17 September 2008

44

He says he left in 2005… there were some sort of charges, from Spitzer and he removed himself.

48. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Samuelson in Newsweek via RCP

First, financial firms have moved beyond their traditional roles as advisers and intermediaries. Once, major investment banks such as Goldman Sachs and Lehman worked mainly for their clients. They traded stocks and bonds for major institutional investors (insurance companies, pension funds, mutual funds). They raised capital for companies by underwriting — selling — new stocks and bonds for the firms. They provided advice to corporate clients on mergers, acquisitions and spinoffs. All these services earned fees.

Now, most financial firms also invest for themselves. They use partners’ or shareholders’ money to place bets on stocks, bonds and other securities — so-called “principal transactions.” Merrill and other retail brokers, which once served individual clients, have ventured into investment banking. So have some commercial banks that were barred from doing so until the repeal in 1999 of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.

49. marisacat - 17 September 2008

The Federal Reserve has requested that the Treasury Department deposit $40 billion with the central bank in an effort to help the Fed continue to stabilize the financial markets and address concerns about whether it is overstretched.

The Fed’s extraordinary series of efforts to pump extra funds into the financial system and bail out such firms as American International Group and Bear Stearns with mammoth loans has depleted its store of Treasury bonds. The central bank will use the funds to offset the amount of money it has injected into the markets in its rescue efforts. //snip//

50. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Dow down 454

ugh or was it 545

anyway DOWN. LOL

51. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

I mistakenly thought I read yesterday that he was turfed from AIG just this year.

More from wiki:

On March 15, 2005, AIG’s board forced Greenberg to resign from his post as Chairman and CEO under the shadow of criticism from Eliot Spitzer, attorney general of New York State. On May 26, 2005, as part of a series of actions against leaders of large corporations, Spitzer filed a complaint against Greenberg, AIG, and Howard I. Smith (ex-CFO of AIG) alleging fraudulent business practice, securities fraud, common law fraud, and other violations of insurance and securities laws. After a subsequent investigation, however, all criminal charges were dropped, and Greenberg was not held responsible for any crimes. The State Attorney General’s office however is still pursuing Mr. Greenberg in civil court for many of these same criminal allegations.

Connections:

Greenberg was both a social friend and client of Henry Kissinger, utilising his consultancy, Kissinger Associates, for advice and operations in a number of countries, particularly in Asia. In 1987 he appointed Kissinger as chairman of AIG’s International Advisory Board.[1]
[…]
Mr. Greenberg is Honorary Vice Chairman and Director of the Council on Foreign Relations and a member of David Rockefeller’s Trilateral Commission. In the 1980s, his extensive foreign connections prompted the Reagan administration to offer him a job as Deputy Director of the CIA, which he declined.

Interesting stuff here.

52. CSTAR - 17 September 2008

448 down at close

53. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

CNN blurb: McCain softens opposition to AIG bailout

Maybe one of his advisers reminded him how much Greenberg has donated to Republicans.

54. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

It’s all one huge, tangled financial web. Good luck to anyone who thinks this will ever be sorted out or “fixed”. Not gonna happen.

55. marisacat - 17 September 2008

hmm just read that US automakers are on the hill this afternoon to discuss THEIR bailout… 25 mil. I mean billion.

We are so on the skids.

56. mattes - 17 September 2008

Personally I think Eliot Spitzer was on to something. They had to take him out.

57. aemd - 17 September 2008

Move along, nothing to see here.

Via CR

58. marisacat - 17 September 2008

Amy had on Michael Hudson:

AMY GOODMAN: But, of course, the argument was, if you don’t bail out AIG, it could lead to a global financial meltdown.

MICHAEL HUDSON: What you—it’s a meltdown of the gamblers, as Nomi said. These are people who’ve gambled. You had McCain saying they’re gamblers. If these people have gambled, we’re talking about derivative trades, billions of dollars of bets on which way interest rates will go, billions of dollars of bad loans beyond the ability of debtors to pay. Why on earth would you want to bail out these creditors?

AMY GOODMAN: So, what would happen if you didn’t?

MICHAEL HUDSON: Then you would prepare the ground for writing down the debts of the homeowners that have no way of repaying the exploding mortgages. Those interest rates are going to be jumping up this year. You would be able to bring the debts down to the ability of the economy to pay, and you would save these four million homeowners from defaulting and being kicked out of their houses. Now they’re going to be kicked out of the houses. The houses will be vacant. The cities are going to now say, “Gee, we’re going to have to cut the property taxes to enable the debts to be paid to save the financial system.” So, if they cut the property taxes, they’re going to have to cut back local expenditures, local infrastructure. The economy is being sacrificed to pay the gamblers.

59. marisacat - 17 September 2008

57

the npr is interesting thanks for that.

I think with few exceptions we could dump the whole of congress.

Draft Caligula’s horse!

60. marisacat - 17 September 2008

10.609 is where the market ended today.

AIG closed at 2.45

61. NYCO - 17 September 2008

46. At the time of the genocide, Rwanda had a female prime minister (a compromise candidate, chosen by the president), Agathe Uwilingiyimana. I believe she was only the 2nd or 3rd African woman to hold such a high office. Sadly — being a moderate Hutu — she was almost immediately killed. She didn’t stand a chance.

62. NYCO - 17 September 2008

56. Eliot Spitzer took himself out. More’s the pity.

63. marisacat - 17 September 2008

we may be spared Carly (sin’t there a big company she can run, or do whatever to?) via CNN Politicalticker:

A top McCain official contacted by CNN said, on condition on anonymity, “No big deal, but not how you get on the surrogate all-star team. Very Biden-like.”

“This campaign source said Fiorina would be discouraged from additional media interviews.

Another top campaign adviser was far less diplomatic.

“Carly will now disappear,” this source said. “Senator McCain was furious.” Asked to define “disappear,” this source said, adding that she would be off TV for a while – but remain at the Republican National Committee and keep her role as head of the party’s joint fundraising committee with the McCain campaign.

Fiorina was booked for several TV interviews over the next few days, including one on CNN. Those interviews have been canceled.

64. mattes - 17 September 2008

Why can’t a politician’s sex life be out of the mix? He was actually going after some of the Wall Street crooks.

65. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008
66. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

Did they consider selling themselves on EBay?

— Posted by Bruce

No kidding. 🙂

67. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

It’s getting harder and harder to find the truth on KO’s show. He just had a graphic about the drop in white female support for McCain showing it went from 14 (or so) points up for McCain last week to some single digit number this week. The headline of the graphic made it look like it was a comparison among weekly NYT/CBS polls. Then Richard Wolfe comes on and when he’s asked about the drop he says the poll last week that showed the high number of female voters for McCain was an ABC poll. KO didn’t bother noting that the graphic showed otherwise. Neither did Wolfe.

They’re really getting sloppy on that show.

68. kittensplayingpoker - 17 September 2008

64. Spitzer was guilty of extreme hypocrisy, not of having a penis. You can’t be a super-prosecutor who went after prostitution rings and then hope to get away with being caught with a hooker.

Worst of all, he was guilty of burning mucho bridges during his short tenure as governor. He had enemies, but he had alienated a lot of his friends, even if his political crime was survivable, which was very iffy.

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

From NPR today, the Balinese Room was one of the casualties of the storm.

70. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

Donald Trump just endorsed McCain on Larry King’s show.

71. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

I don’t know how the average person can figure out how bad this financial crisis is. On one hand, you have commentators saying it took 60 days for the markets to bounce back after 9/11 and then you have people like Trump etc who compare this to 1929. Who are you supposed to believe? That’s the problem with the complexities of this financial system. It’s like a crap shoot. The big guys always come out on top though, don’t they?

72. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

A friend sent me this interesting story:

NEW PALTZ, N.Y. — It is probably a good thing that the Mohonk Mountain House, the 19th-century resort, was built on Shawangunk conglomerate, a concrete-hard quartz rock. Otherwise, the path to the National Weather Service’s cooperative station here surely would have turned to dust by now.

Every day for the last 112 years, people have trekked up the same gray outcropping to dutifully record temperatures and weather conditions. In the process, they have compiled a remarkable data collection that has become a climatological treasure chest.

The problems that often haunt other weather records — the station is moved, buildings are constructed nearby or observers record data inconsistently — have not arisen here because so much of this place has been frozen in time. The weather has been taken in exactly the same place, in precisely the same way, by just a handful of the same dedicated people since Grover Cleveland was president.

For much of that time, those same weather observers have also made detailed records about recurring natural events, like the appearance of the first spring peeper or the first witch hazel bush to bud in the fall. Together, these two sets of data, meticulously collected in the same area, are beginning to offer up intriguing indicators about climate change — not about what is causing it but rather how it affects the lives of animals, plants, insects and birds.

That extremely limited number of observers greatly enhances the reliability, and therefore the value, of the data. Other weather stations have operated longer, but few match Mohonk’s consistency and reliability. “The quality of their observations is second to none on a number of counts,” said Raymond G. O’Keefe, a meteorologist at the National Weather Service office in Albany. “They’re very precise, they keep great records and they’ve done it for a very long time.”

Mohonk’s data stands apart from that of most other cooperative weather observers in other respects as well. The station has never been moved, and the resort, along with the area immediately surrounding the box, has hardly changed over time. Rain and snow are measured in the original brass rain gauge issued in 1896 by what was then known as the United States Weather Bureau. Mr. Huth also checks the temperature and pH of Mohonk Lake daily, and he measures the level of the lake according to its distance from the top of an iron bar that was bolted to the Shawangunk conglomerate in 1896.

The record shows that on this ridge in the Shawangunk Mountains, about 20 miles south of the better-known Catskills, the average annual temperature has risen 2.7 degrees in 112 years. Of the top 10 warmest years in that time, 7 have come since 1990. Both annual precipitation and annual snowfall have increased, and the growing season has lengthened by 10 days.

But what makes the data truly singular is how it parallels a vast collection of phenological observations taken at this same place, and by many of the same observers, since 1925.

The records kept there helped show that DDT was dangerous, provided evidence of the damage caused by acid rain and more recently:

Last year, Benjamin I. Cook, a climate modeler and post-doctoral fellow at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and his father, Edward R. Cook, a tree-ring specialist at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory who met Mr. Smiley in 1971 when he was a military policeman at West Point, published a study in The International Journal of Climatology. They analyzed Mohonk House data to determine how some overwintering birds, insects, animals and 19 species of plants had changed their habits in accord with changes in temperature.

The results showed how sensitive species can be to climate change, even though the climate data itself is mixed. Benjamin Cook said hepatica, bloodroot and red berried elder tended to show the strongest trends toward earlier flowering. And despite a general warming trend, there was no significant increase in the length of the frost-free season. Nonetheless, there were significantly more days without frost.

“This is more than just a normal January thaw,” Mr. Cook said. The increase in warmer days in winter sends false signals to plants and animals whose seasonal changes can be set off by the temporary warmth.

Intrigued by that initial dip into Mr. Smiley’s data, Mr. Cook next intends to look at migrating birds. Mr. Smiley observed that by the early 1980s many migrating species were arriving about a week earlier than they did in the 1920s, and many American robins had stopped migrating altogether.

73. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

IOZ

Unlike physicists and their brethren, however, Accountancy did not devise new models and mathematics to understand the elaborate, intricate inner pseudoworkings of the objects of its observation, but instead contented itself to become a sort of dorm-room-Theosophical Society to the financiers, taking the old, “Well, it is what it is what it isn’t” approach, because, after all, do you know how much money Arthur Anderson et al. got paid? Everyone got stoned and agreed that our solar system is just an atom in the pinky toe of some vast cosmic being, and so, like, who cares, dude? What are you talking about? Pass the chips.

This, ladies and gents, dudes and dudettes, was the American Economy. The only thing of somewhat durable value that we actually manufactured domestically was housing, and even that, well . . . have you seen the houses we build these days? Tapped on their 4″ walls? Examined the caulking in the bathrooms?

74. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

U.S. Senators push for Iraq oil trust fund

The Bush administration would press the Iraqi government to adopt an oil trust fund for distributing revenue or risk economic assistance under a bill proposed by Sens. Hillary Clinton and John Ensign, Ben Lando reports for United Press International.

The New York Democrat and the Nevada Republican see their legislation as an end-around the Iraqi political debate over an oil law and a measure to rally Iraqis while ensuring oil transparency.

If approved, the State Department must give the Iraqi government an “oil trust plan” and certify it to six congressional committees within 90 days of enactment of the legislation.

If the department fails to do so, 10 percent of certain reconstruction aid in the Economic Support Fund to Iraq would be withheld immediately, and another 10 percent every 30 days until the certification is completed.

I would recommend to the Iraqi people that they look up Indian Trust dot com and see what happens to people who trust the US gov’t to have any kind of influence over the national resources of the people they subjugate.

75. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

73. Blackmail. Wonderful.

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008
77. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008
78. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

The picture that shames Italy

It was the sort of tragedy that could happen on any beach. But what happened next has stunned Italy. The bodies of the two girls were laid on the sand; their sister and cousin were taken away by the police to identify and contact the parents. Some pious soul donated a couple of towels to preserve the most basic decencies. Then beach life resumed.

The indifference was taken as shocking proof that many Italians no longer have human feelings for the Roma, even though the communities have lived side by side for generations.

“This was the other terrible thing,” says Mr Esposito, “besides the fact of the girls drowning: the normality. The way people continued to sunbathe, for three hours, just metres away from the bodies. They could have gone to a different beach. It’s not possible that you can watch two young people die then carry on as if nothing happened. It showed a terrible lack of sensitivity and respect.”

The attitudes of ordinary Italians towards the Roma, never warm, have been chilling for years, aggravated by sensational news coverage of crimes allegedly committed by Gypsies, and a widespread confusion of Roma with ordinary, non-Roma Romanians, who continue to arrive. The Berlusconi government has launched a high-profile campaign against the community, spearheaded by the programme announced by the Interior Minister, Roberto Marroni, to fingerprint the entire Roma population. The move has been condemned inside Italy and beyond as a return to the racial registers introduced by the Fascist regime in the 1930s. The fingerprinting of Roma in Naples began on 19 June.

79. lucid - 17 September 2008

Donald Trump just endorsed McCain on Larry King’s show.

One guy who’s run every business he’s ever touched into the ground endorsing another who admittedly doesn’t know shit about the economy… go figure.

80. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

78. He’s drilling for more tax cuts.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

Do Not Assume the Position: Florida Police Taser Naked Man Walking a Dog

I’m not gonna ask what weapon they were afraid he’d use against them.

82. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

Italian man catches wife in bed with priest

Bishop Daniel added: “I have always respected the priest in question and I will continue to respect him. You cannot discount all the good a person has done in their life just because of one mistake.”

Unless that person is woman, of course.

83. NYCO - 17 September 2008

Tomorrow’s Wall Street disaster will be Morgan Stanley. Dey in trubble.

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008
85. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

PSA: Beginning of Jon Stewart show fairly hilarious tonight on the theme of Drill Baby Drill. Followed by a clip of Streisand’s politico-satirical vocal medley at the Obama fundraiser in Hollywood (last night?), setting off a Daily Show castwide musical segment.

86. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

I’m getting confused. Is Wa gonna Mooo some Wachonvies tomorrow, too?

This is worse than the racetrack in August.

87. NYCO - 17 September 2008

WaMu in big trouble, Morgan Stanley in growing trouble, and Wachovia in some trouble, but probably not as much as the other two.

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2008

Supreme Court’s Global Influence Is Waning

Judges around the world have long looked to the decisions of the United States Supreme Court for guidance, citing and often following them in hundreds of their own rulings since the Second World War.

But now American legal influence is waning. Even as a debate continues in the court over whether its decisions should ever cite foreign law, a diminishing number of foreign courts seem to pay attention to the writings of American justices.

“One of our great exports used to be constitutional law,” said Anne-Marie Slaughter, the dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton. “We are losing one of the greatest bully pulpits we have ever had.”

From 1990 through 2002, for instance, the Canadian Supreme Court cited decisions of the United States Supreme Court about a dozen times a year, an analysis by The New York Times found. In the six years since, the annual citation rate has fallen by half, to about six.

Australian state supreme courts cited American decisions 208 times in 1995, according to a recent study by Russell Smyth, an Australian economist. By 2005, the number had fallen to 72.

The story is similar around the globe, legal experts say, particularly in cases involving human rights. These days, foreign courts in developed democracies often cite the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights in cases concerning equality, liberty and prohibitions against cruel treatment, said Harold Hongju Koh, the dean of the Yale Law School. In those areas, Dean Koh said, “they tend not to look to the rulings of the U.S. Supreme Court.”

The rise of new and sophisticated constitutional courts elsewhere is one reason for the Supreme Court’s fading influence, legal experts said. The new courts are, moreover, generally more liberal than the Rehnquist and Roberts courts and for that reason more inclined to cite one another.

Another reason is the diminished reputation of the United States in some parts of the world, which experts here and abroad said is in part a consequence of the Bush administration’s unpopularity around the world. Foreign courts are less apt to justify their decisions with citations to cases from a nation unpopular with their domestic audience.

“It’s not surprising, given our foreign policy in the last decade or so, that American influence should be declining,” said Thomas Ginsburg, who teaches comparative and international law at the University of Chicago.

Aversion to Foreign Law

The adamant opposition of some Supreme Court justices to the citation of foreign law in their own opinions also plays a role, some foreign judges say.

“Most justices of the United States Supreme Court do not cite foreign case law in their judgments,” Aharon Barak, then the chief justice of the Supreme Court of Israel, wrote in the Harvard Law Review in 2002. “They fail to make use of an important source of inspiration, one that enriches legal thinking, makes law more creative, and strengthens the democratic ties and foundations of different legal systems.”

Partly as a consequence, Chief Justice Barak wrote, the United States Supreme Court “is losing the central role it once had among courts in modern democracies.”

Justice Michael Kirby of the High Court of Australia said that his court no longer confined itself to considering English, Canadian and American law. “Now we will take information from the Supreme Court of India, or the Court of Appeal of New Zealand, or the Constitutional Court of South Africa,” he said in an interview published in 2001 in The Green Bag, a legal journal. “America” he added, “is in danger of becoming something of a legal backwater.”

89. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

Damn. So much for my attempted pun on Wachovia and anchovies.

Fresh Air interview with MIchael Greenberger, law professor and director of the Center for Health and Homeland Security at the University of Maryland and the principal deputy associate attorney general at the Justice Department.

90. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

86 – Mille grazie!

91. lucid - 17 September 2008

WaMu in big trouble, Morgan Stanley in growing trouble, and Wachovia in some trouble, but probably not as much as the other two.

Well, if Wachovia buys Morgan Stanley, as rumored, they’ll quickly be in a whole lot of trouble.

92. marisacat - 17 September 2008

83

and the creeps have spetnt tow days saying, we dodged the big bullet Morgan Stanley and Goldman are OK.

Which of course they are not.

93. marisacat - 17 September 2008

One of our great exports used to be constitutional law,” said Anne-Marie Slaughter, the dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton. “We are losing one of the greatest bully pulpits we have ever had.”

88

and is it any shock?

We have a Catholic court for one thing. But I am supposed to shake in my used-to-be Democratic Mary Janes and worry that the Holy Rollers are at the Gate. Why SHOULDN’T it get worse? That is what we are on track for.

As for aversion to quoting foreign law, Scalia is very prone to that silliness. But he has no problem being invited to Italia for a cushy trip to lecture and, of course, eat.

Not that the creeps and imperialists of the Woodrow Wilson School do us much good either.

94. Intermittent Bystander - 17 September 2008

Just to clarify before sleep – Title of Fresh Air segement is Could Wall Street Woes Set Off A Global Crisis?.

95. marisacat - 17 September 2008

I got the impression the ohter night with Nouriel Roubini that he expects it to go global. His was the first mention I head of this reaching a Nordic village that engaged in the huge sub prime mess in Cleveland (Moyer did a show on Cleveland issues, with Greider).

And now many are repeating that little red flag.

BTW, on eof the better hosts on KGO spent two hours on meltdown today, discussion of Glass-Steagall and how bi partisan the mess is. Including La Nan who supported de reg and Glass Steagall. I never knew that, ’99 is a blur for me. And callers were pissed – and informed.

Oh well!

96. diane - 17 September 2008

Morgan Stanley in Talks with China’s CITIC

”…….The Federal Reserve has been active in encouraging the Chinese to invest in U.S. financial institutions and has even made it clear that it would look favorably upon Chinese acquisition of a U.S.-based financial institution, sources said.

Though Chinese financial institutions do not have a great deal of experience in running large investment banks, Citic does own the largest brokerage in China. Sources both in the U.S. and in China says discussions are ongoing. China’s sovereign wealth fund, China Investment Corporation (CIC), owns 9.9 percent of Morgan.….”

….I’m guessing that China funded many of the recent IPOS here …as I recollect…50% or more were founded by non-citizens…

such deep shit we are in …..”the Federal reserve” what a fucking crock….

97. diane - 17 September 2008

I halfway think the whole collapse was orchestrated by a handful who knew exactly what they doing…..(too funny I started to write my “email address” collapse.com)

98. diane - 17 September 2008

a href=http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-homes18-2008sep18,0,2700636.story>Sales up, prices down as foreclosures flood Southern California home market

Repossessed properties will soon account for more than half of all sales, experts predict.

So many foreclosed homes are for sale in Southern California that these distressed properties will soon dominate the market, forcing prices down even further.

About half the homes sold in the region in August had been repossessed, according to figures released Wednesday by the real estate tracking service MDA DataQuick, driving prices down 34% over the previous year to a median of $330,000.

Snip

In August, about 8,800 of the 19,366 homes sold in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, Ventura and San Diego counties were in foreclosure, according to San Diego-based MDA DataQuick.

But as those homes were selling, even more were being repossessed, building up an inventory of foreclosed properties that will take months to move.

Banks and other financial institutions took back about 12,900 homes last month in the region, O’Toole said, thousands more than they managed to sell….”

(Not to worry, though, as the title stated: Sales are Up!)

99. diane - 17 September 2008
100. diane - 17 September 2008

Article link re Hurricane Ike

Bay I hope you’re allright!

101. liberalcatnip - 17 September 2008

97. I halfway think the whole collapse was orchestrated by a handful who knew exactly what they doing

I had the same thought the other day but I don’t know enough about this whole web to back it up.

102. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008

Speaking of Scalia: Scalia says U. of C. has gone liberal :

On the eve of today’s 221st anniversary of the U.S. Constitution’s adoption, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia told conservative lawyers in Chicago that the University of Chicago Law School — where he used to teach — has lost its edge and gone liberal.

Back in the days when Scalia — the court’s most vocal supporter of adhering to the text of the constitution — used to teach at the school, it was more associated with conservative economist Milton Friedman. The courses had more rigor and the school had a more conservative ethos, Scalia told 500 members of the conservative Federalist Society of lawyers at the Union League Club Tuesday.

After Scalia left the school, it hired now-Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama and started offering classes like Obama’s popular “Current issues in Racism and the Law.”

Scalia never mentioned Obama or any other professor. But Scalia bemoaned the proliferation of exotic law classes in the country’s law schools.

“I took nothing but bread-and-butter classes, not “Law and Poverty,” or other made-up stuff, Scalia said to laughter. He said his advice to law students was: “Take serious classes. There’s so much law to learn. Don’t waste your time.”

Yes. Who in their right mind can take “poverty” seriously?? Racial issues? Far too “exotic”.

Wanker.

103. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008
104. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008

Is there even such a number as $1,000bn? Damn math again.

105. diane - 18 September 2008

101

I’m betting a lot of us suspect but can’t prove it, I’ve seen enough in the work world and the newspapers which presumeably are supposed to cover such things, that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least…

**********

What all too easily happens in the US when folks living from paycheck to paycheck follow the law and evacuate:

It’s wrong to evict evacuees – Judge says Jindal’s order doesn’t apply

The crinkled eviction notice was posted on Terrell Newsome’s door Sept. 8, two days after he came home from evacuating to Houston for Hurricane Gustav.

He was late with September rent, and his landlords wanted him out.

Tenant advocates say the parish had no business posting an eviction notice for Newsome or anyone else last week. After Gustav, they say, Gov. Bobby Jindal froze all legal deadlines for a two-week period, from Aug. 29 to Sept. 12.

After Hurricane Katrina, under a similar order by then-Gov. Kathleen Blanco, the judges of New Orleans’ First City Court, which hears all parish evictions, temporarily suspended eviction cases. This time, however, the court’s senior judge, Charles Imbornone, argues the order doesn’t apply to evictions.

Snip

In the court hearings held this week, most people were given notice during the period covered by the governor’s order. Nearly all were evicted, including Newsome and Willie Smith, his roommate and cousin.

Newsome tried to mention the evacuation to his judge, Imbornone, who during his 28-year tenure is known for being kind to renters who have compelling reasons for coming up short. Newsome told the judge that he had about half of his $950 in rent money, but that he’d spent about $600 evacuating, more than he’d planned.

Imbornone rejected the explanation.

Snip

“The executive order doesn’t affect the rights of a landlord to evict a tenant. But it should briefly delay the filing of an eviction,” said Mark Moreau, head of New Orleans Legal Assistance.

Moreau’s opinion is supported by both the Louisiana Office of the Attorney General and the governor’s executive counsel, Jimmy Faircloth, who said the governor’s order did apply to evictions and any related time clocks — such as the Louisiana-required five-day notice to vacate any premises.

Snip

Moreau thinks hundreds, if not thousands, of affected tenants across the state will be up for eviction this week and next, a contention bolstered by charitable agencies who have received an influx of calls from low-income people asking for help with occasional rent or utility payments.

“Most of them preface their request with, ‘I used my rent money for evacuating,’ ” said Don Everard of Hope House.

Snip

Newsome said he tried to reach his landlady and tell her that she’d receive her rent on his next payday, which comes this week. But she didn’t return his calls, he said. She also declined to comment for this report.….”

********

goodnight all……..

106. marisacat - 18 September 2008

The RE slow down has hit SF… it had to eventually… there was a segment on evening news tonight.

107. marisacat - 18 September 2008

Barney Frank on Charlie Rose doing his sagacious bumbler routine. We are in such deep shit with these idiots.

108. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008

AP Refuses Secret Service Request for Palin’s “Hacked” Emails

The Secret Service contacted The Associated Press on Wednesday and asked for copies of the leaked e-mails, which circulated widely on the Internet. The AP did not comply.

Apparently, the SS has yet to discover Teh Google.

109. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008
110. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008

105. That’s horrendous, diane. The poor just keep getting shafted.

111. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2008
112. marisacat - 18 September 2008

knew thred

LINK

…………………. 8) ………………………


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