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They’re just slugging it out… 19 September 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


45 + days to go… Watching them, all four of them, go at it, makes me want to buy gold and dust off the passport. I also saw clips of Nancy P often today – and thru the night…. LOL This is not a winning play…

Just for a shift in horror back drop I stopped in at Anti-war.com which I had not been to in weeks, riding at the top is:

US-Pakistan Ties Deteriorate Over Air Strikes

Gates Defends Right of US to Strike in Pakistan

US Military Advisors May Soon Head to Pakistan

US Airstrikes Test Alliance With Pakistan

Taliban Opens New Front in Pakistan

And beneath that blithely rides a headline that Russia, Condi says, is taking a “turn to the dark”. Where are we? In the light?

I heard conjecture yesterday that Putin is, personally, immensely wealthy, no news there, but the pundit conjecture posited that he is “possibly the wealthiest man on earth”. At 60 billion (the number cited) I sort of doubt it. In the past I had heard conjecture that Bloomberg, for one, is worth 100 billion. Not even counting Asian and ME wealth, nor certain royal houses. What a relief, I am sure we’d find a way to go to war to ensure we are wealthiest.

And what is all of this, our wealth, riding on? Shifting sands and sinkholes in my opinion…



1. NYCO - 19 September 2008

People have been hoping for disasters in Iraq and on Wall Street to provide a “wake up call,” but there aren’t going to be any such crashes; just a slow, painful trashing. Trashing of our military, trashing of our moral authority, trashing of our financial system (never completely fair, but even less so now). Now today we’re due for a “surge” on Wall Street. Yeah, that’s what they’re calling it. A “surge.” LOL.

The revolution will not be televised because people will just slip away from the system in twos and threes. I fully expect there to come a day in American history when CNN’s bubbleheaded bleach blonde smells smoke in the studio and is genuinely surprised the network is being taken over by the Popular Front of Somethingorother, or by the National Guard.

2. marisacat - 19 September 2008

LOL my connection disconnected I had to shut down and reboot, but I had been posting a comment that I just read the Big Bail Out of banking is being called… drum roll:

Cash for Trash.

Which is very accurate.

3. marisacat - 19 September 2008

new Pew poll via McClatchy Campaign Blog. I have no idea how it plays out.

4. marisacat - 19 September 2008

A weak (they limit it to womens’ issues, it is much broader) opinion piece in the NYT from Clinton and Cecile Richards on the leaked dox from HHS to provide for wide refusal to provide care for religious moral and PERSONAL reasons (think the dames managed to leave that out).

Many circumstances unrelated to reproductive health could also fall under the umbrella of “other medical procedures.” Could physicians object to helping patients whose sexual orientation they find objectionable? Could a receptionist refuse to book an appointment for an H.I.V. test? What about an emergency room doctor who wishes to deny emergency contraception to a rape victim? Or a pharmacist who prefers not to refill a birth control prescription?

From my read of the dox (will try to find a link to the text), they sure could do the above. Plus a health care worker can decline to run the auto clave, that cleans instruments, if they might be used in something she or he is opposed to. Workers can decline to refer patients for appropriate care adn tehy can refuse to give information, base on their personal preference.

Plus I doubt the strength of will on teh part of the Democrats to fight this. I mean, they are the def of self involved and WEAK.

added: full text HTML version of HHS proposed regulations

Added: Christina Page at RH Reality looks at narrowly, in terms of abortion and birth control

5. marisacat - 19 September 2008


[T]he domestic agenda of the next president is shrinking. Nobody, anywhere, knows how much of a financial burden the federal government has taken on in the past few weeks, but the cost of bailing out Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and American International Group Inc. — to say nothing of the potential cost of riding to the rescue of American auto makers, which looks increasingly likely — could conceivably run into the hundreds of billions.

The government’s cost for bailouts ultimately may turn out to be less onerous than some of today’s darker projections, depending on how markets evolve, of course. But no matter. Whoever is putting together a new economic plan for a new administration in January won’t dare to base it on a rosy scenario./snip/

6. marisacat - 19 September 2008

LOL a trillion dollar plan, as the rest of us are consigned to the five and ten cents store.

what can you do but laugh.

7. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

A few bold ideas we won’t be hearing from the casino-overlords:

Tax the Speculators: A Fair Plan to Pay for Economic Recovery (by Chuck Collins, director of the program on Inequality and the Common Good at the Washington, DC-based Institute for Policy Studies, and coordinator of the Working Group on Extreme Inequality)

Subheads in article:

Institute a Financial Transactions Tax.
Impose an Income Tax Surcharge Rate on Incomes Over $5 Million.
Eliminate the Tax Preference for Capital Gains.
Progressive Inheritance Taxes.
Eliminate Taxpayer Subsidies for Excessive CEO Pay.
Close Offshore Corporate Tax Havens.

8. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Obama Faith Tour starts next week… via CBN/Brody (the article says the format wtill highlight the faith of both Biden and ObRama):

[A]n official with Barack Obama’s campaign tells The Brody File that beginning next week the campaign will start an official faith tour in key battleground states called “Barack Obama: Faith, Family and Values Tour”. The subheading of the tour is as follows: “Voting ALL Our Values”

The Brody File is told that top faith surrogates will hit the trail for Obama. Some of those high profile figures include

-Former Indiana Congressman and pro-life Democrat Tim Roemer,

-Catholic legal scholar Doug Kmiec, and

-author Donald Miller. You can also expect

-a soon to be named Evangelical North Carolina (red state) Congressman to travel the country as well. All of these surrogates are well versed and comfortable talking faith and politics. This is clearly a sign by the Obama campaign that they plan to target red state and swing state moderates.


This tour will last about a month or so and will be in a town hall format where these speakers and others will give their talks in community centers and gyms and then take questions afterwards.

9. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Science unveils hidden drivers of stock bubbles and crashes (AFP)

John Coates, a Cambridge University researcher into biochemistry and behaviour, says market fluctuations are amplified by hormones.

In a past life, Coates traded at US investment house Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank in New York.

During the dot-com boom, he says, he was stunned to see male traders “displaying classic symptoms of mania,” with symptoms of omnipotence, raging thoughts and diminished need for sleep.

Quitting finance and heading for Cambridge, Coates explored a hunch with Joe Herbert, a professor at the Cambridge Centre for Brain Repair.

They took saliva swabs from 17 male traders at a London stock-dealing firm twice a day and measured the samples for two hormones.

These were testosterone, which is associated with male aggressiveness and sexual behaviour, and cortisol, which is summoned by the body to deal with “fight or flight” emergencies.

When the traders were in profit, their testosterone levels surged. But when they were in loss, or in fluctuation, it was their cortisol that rose sharply.


In 2007, [David] Tuckett [of the Psychoanalysis Unit at University College London] interviewed dozens of fund mangers at top investment banks around the world.

Under crushing pressure to perform, they blocked out the risk factor and convinced themselves, day in and day out, that they had had the keys others were groping for.

“The ‘Master of the Universe’ really does believe in his own invincibility,” Tuckett said. “Even though many of the traders I interviewed told me ‘this boom can’t go on forever’, they kept on investing in it.”

10. marisacat - 19 September 2008

The marines have landed at Galveston.. they found a real littoral!

11. marisacat - 19 September 2008


omigod what will we do if the MEN are hormonal TOO!?!

We are finished! We can never recover! This is insurmountable!

12. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

8 and 11- Apparently, we’re back to “In Gawd We Trust.”

Let us prey.

13. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Oops! Typo!

Lettuce prey!

14. mattes - 19 September 2008

As we are busy with Wall Street:

Ten Russian warships have docked at Syrian port
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

Russian Navy in action
Israeli military and naval commanders were taken by surprise by Rear Adm. Andrei Baranov’s disclosure that 10 Russian warships are already anchored at the Syrian port of Tartus, DEBKAfile’s military sources report.

Moscow and Damascus have worked fast to put in place the agreement reached in Moscow on Sept. 12 by Russian navy commander, Adm. Vladimir Wysotsky and Syrian naval commander Gen. Taleb al-Barri to provide the Russian fleet with a long-term base at Syrian ports. Israel was not aware that this many vessels were involved in the deal.

What most worries Israeli military leaders is an earlier announcement by Adm. Wysotsky that Russia’s Mediterranean assets would subjected to its Black Sea fleet command, thereby placing Russia’s warships near Israel’s shores at the service of Moscow’s contest against the US and NATO in the Caucasian. It is feared that Israel will be dragged into another cold war.


15. kittensplayingpoker - 19 September 2008

What a Grand Guignol finish for the Dubya Administration. I do believe they’ve destroyed America’s financial future with their new TARP plan.

Of course, most people are already calling it TRAP, which is what it is.

16. Heather-Rose Ryan - 19 September 2008

8 – oh for fuck’s sake. That tears it. I will NEVER vote for Obama, not even if he were running for dogcatcher.

I don’t have any idea who this “Donald Miller” is, or what his views on choice are, so I looked him up. I found this on his blog. Note the sentences I’ve put in boldface:

As talking heads create tension in order to sell advertising in a twenty-four hour news cycle, we are beginning to hear the old phrase “culture war” once again. It had been a while since I’d heard the phrase, to be honest. But I grew up hearing about this supposed war and it brought to mind a paradigm that has become slightly foreign to me. It reminded me of a time I believed there was a large group of liberals attempting to do in my Christian way of life. As I got older, and met many of the supposed enemy, I found, essentially, the same personalities I’d experienced in my church upbringing, that is I found objective, rational people who were kind-hearted and other centered, even if they disagreed with the religious right. They were frustrated, sure, but most people maintained a balanced view. Were there fundamentalist liberals that could be categorized as extreme? Certainly. But there weren’t that many. But it was that kind of rare personality singled out by the media (including the Christian media) to paint a false picture of our culture and further increase the tension.

OK, so it looks to me like he’s yet another one of those “Used to be a Conservative Republican” yahoos who are so busy glomming on to the Democrats and trying to foist their religious-wacko values on all of us.

I am so done with Obama.

17. marisacat - 19 September 2008

LOL I just caught Michelle O and Jill B on GMA, I guess as soft shoe push back to CMcC and SP. I assume there si a vid up at ABC ( yeah there is http://abcnews.go.com/gma )

The two women looked about as happy to be there as if they had been promised all the unstrained carrot juice on earth in return for showing up.

Geesh good luck. And i see they have Nancy P out on cable. Promised all the South Seas Pearls on earth and she still looks … well as stiff as she has looked for over 20 years (I have never known waht to make of the botox stories, one I don’t care, but two, she has always been “stiff”).

The Democrats have at least a 50/50 chance to throw themselves over the finish line. Maybe then they will look less diisagreeable about governing,

18. marisacat - 19 September 2008


I ahd never heard of Donald Miller either.. but had no time yet to google… thanks. Roemer of Indiana is VERY conservative, Catholic and pro life, as well. Can’t wait to hear of the SC add on. Should be good… (not)



Condi was right!!!!!!

19. mattes - 19 September 2008

I just think Russia is tired of the USA/Israeli war-machine calling all the shots. Giving them a little balance.

20. Heather-Rose Ryan - 19 September 2008

9 – wow, great article. I worked on Wall Street, I saw the Masters of the Universe (or Big Swinging Dicks, as depicted in Liars Poker in action, and yes, it’s all true.

There is also a certain kind of cluelessness that goes with the “testosterone/cortisol” effect – these guys are so focused and manic that they see things in bizarre ways. I remember one famous arbitrageur, one of the big moneymakers in the investment bank, was positive that there was algae contaminating his water cooler tank. He was absolutely obsessed with this. When the office-manager guy tried to explain that the water company had just changed over to bottles made of glass with a slightly green tint, he refused to believe this. There were a number of increasingly frenzied confrontations about the “contaminated” spring water – very Captain Queeg-like.

Fun and games!

21. marisacat - 19 September 2008

The way I see it those people are always at “war”.

One good thing Nouriel Roubini has said is that a ton of hedge funds larded with “dull talent” will be going under.

Grace a dieu. Works for me.

22. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

20 – More memories, from 2004, come to mind.

Enron traders joking about stealing from poor grannies; celebrating by singing a disco song while a power plant in California burns in a wildfire during the electricity crisis of 2000-01; mocking a small business owner on the brink of destruction; and dreaming that their boss “Kenny-Boy” Lay would become George Bush’s energy secretary.

The audio tapes are just the latest to emerge in the tale of the Houston-based power company’s gouging, scamming, manipulation, and multi-million executive salaries that cost its stockholders, creditors, employees and consumers billions of bucks.

23. marisacat - 19 September 2008

The Bushes singing happy birthday to Kenny Boy, via video. I never knew why the Dems and MM did not use that more.

Then again I am hearing John Podesta (Center for American Progress and various funded blogs) stumble and stammer on KGO with Ronn Owen over the history of de-regulation.

24. marisacat - 19 September 2008

hmm Donald Miller’s other web site. Which seems to be the major location. He is basically a pumped up motivational speaker. Whoo Hoo. Ob Rama was a good sign on for him, biz wise, and religion wise.

25. raincat100 - 19 September 2008

Wow. A bunch of people — looked like all African American — disrupted Obama’s speech. They were holding up signs saying that he supports gay marriage and there was something about the KKK that i could not read. Several guys were wearing HUGE, blingy crosses.

26. marisacat - 19 September 2008

religion wars. fake religion wars.

Well what did anyone expect. Hug and kiss religion and it will slash you back. Or fake religion will.

27. Heather-Rose Ryan - 19 September 2008

11 Well, the difference is, of course, when women are hormonal they’re seen as irrational, out-of-control, and annoying. Hormonal men are the same way but are viewed as powerful, assertive, daring and quick-thinking.

Paging Doctor Sully – I’m sure he has something to say about the beauties of testosterone-stoked manliness. “To dare, to try, to seek, to boldly do stupid mindless things” etc.

28. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008


“Barack Obama: Faith, Family and Values Tour”.

Are they kidding?? The country’s in a financial meltdown and that’s their priority? Tone deaf yet again.

29. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Completely OT but amusing. Saw the new Microsoft ad on TV last night (“I’m a PC”), which features quick cuts of various “ordinary people” declaring who they are or what they do with their computers, presumably to lash back at the “elitism” of the Apple ads.

Guess whose face popped up saying “I blog for Obama”? thereisnospoon!

Check it out at 22 seconds into the spot:
I’m a PC.

30. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Calculated Risk has a post on TARP/Troubled Asset Relief Program, down one from the top.


LOL If we weren’t screwed last week (and we were) we are now.

31. marisacat - 19 September 2008


I had read that commercial spot (or the one with Gates and Seinfeld, if it is the same) is being withdrawn. Blow back.

32. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

31 – No, this is the one replacing the Seinfeld debacle.

Deepak Chopra and spoonless – whodathunkit.

33. marisacat - 19 September 2008

LOL Sully will be on Maher tonight.

34. marisacat - 19 September 2008

oh god Deepak. The new age version.

he wrote one book about 25 years ago that was mildly interesting. gah.

35. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

25 – On the Obama protesters:Michael Warns

Michael Warns is a radical black preacher who believes that Oprah Winfrey is Satan and whose followers interrupted a Barack Obama speech in Florida on September 19, 2008.

36. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Can’t Obama jsut send Donnie McClurkin (one of three “cure the gays”, gay-cured himself, gospel preachers used by Obama in S Carolina) Kirbyjon Caldwell (Houston faith and finance minsitory, with cure the gays ministries) and Joshua DuBois (Assemblies of God preacher who is Dir of Fiath Outreach for Ob) out to speak to Michael Ware?

Somehow my heart does not bleed for this instance.

37. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Karma’s a butch!

38. Heather-Rose Ryan - 19 September 2008

36 – LOL, that would be a veritable Clash of the Titans.

39. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

US air raid kills Iraq civilians

The US military says seven people, including three women civilians, have been killed in an air strike in Iraq.

“Insurgents”, obviously.

40. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

It’s Talk Like a Pirate day. Ironic, since some Wall Street pirates managed to pillage massive amounts of US booty thanks to Bush and congress.

41. lucid - 19 September 2008

LOL Sully will be on Maher tonight.

All they need is David Byron to complete the panel…

42. lucid - 19 September 2008

It’s Talk Like a Pirate day.

Is the Flying Spaghetti Monster going to touch us with it’s noodly appendage? 😉


43. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

Baroness Warnock: Dementia sufferers may have a ‘duty to die’

Elderly people suffering from dementia should consider ending their lives because they are a burden on the NHS and their families, according to the influential medical ethics expert Baroness Warnock.


44. lucid - 19 September 2008

The 84-year-old added that she hoped people will soon be “licensed to put others down” if they are unable to look after themselves.

Christ, that quote alone will set the death with dignity movement back a decade.

45. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

41. Sometimes one’s fantasies are best left unsaid, sweetie. 🙂

46. lucid - 19 September 2008

I almost bought that shirt when I first came across the FSM site…

47. CSTAR - 19 September 2008

42 I thought (the now defunct) PFF was the “talk like a pirate blog“.

48. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Oh Bama says this is not a time for panic or fear.

49. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

This isn’t exactly the time for Obamalama to be so vague. When he spoke yesterday, he had a simple 3 point plan. Guess that’s changed!

50. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Silber popped me links to a couple of his posts on the economic wipe out http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com (he excerpts av ery interesting email from a reader)…

But also in his piece (one of them) he links to a Mike Whitney article in Counterpunch… which is excellent:

Not a dime of public money is provided for over-extended mortgage-owners trying to stay in their homes. Not one congressman or senator at Thursday’s meeting rejected the bailout plan or called for a criminal investigation of to establish whether laws were broken in the sale of fraudulent securities which have clogged the global system; pushed banks, hedge funds, insurance companies and homeowners into default, and precipitated the greatest financial crisis in the nation’s 230 year history.

Too true… you know what was set up for desperate people in foreclosure earlier this summer? by congress? In the vague thought that some lenders might you know, CARE? Or wish to negotiate with some of the more financially solvent so they could avoid losing their home?

An 800 number, the last 4 digits which spelled out H O P E… and where, from all reports I read, there was no one, ever, to answer. You were on your own to run down you rlender, if you could even FIND the lender.

51. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

This year will be remembered as the one when the words “hope” and “change” came to have absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

52. marisacat - 19 September 2008

hmm just saw this as a headline at Democracy Now!

Nader on Ballot in 45 States,

53. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

From the Desperate Much? file:

Britain will send more troops to Afghanistan as the strength of the international force in the country is boosted to counter rising violence, the US Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, said yesterday.

At the same time, the US is to ask its Western allies, especially those who have failed to contribute to the military mission, to provide the bulk of $20 billion (£11bn) needed to more than double the size of the Afghan army from 65,000 to 134,000.

One senior US defence official said: “We feel it is only right that those who have not sent troops should pay towards the cost of the Afghan army. It’s not just Nato countries, for example we have Japan, the world’s second- biggest economy, who have no troops in Afghanistan. Shouldn’t they contribute something?”

Panhandling to fund the MIC. Pathetic.

54. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

52. I saw a poll yesterday, can’t remember which state -maybe Fla -, that showed Nader was taking votes away from the Repubs. Guess he won’t be to blame if the Dems lose there. (They’ll still blame him anyway).

55. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Politico says Bob Barr will also be on the ballot in most states.

This campaign season, Nader and Barr together are drawing about 3.3 percent of the vote in recent polls – easily enough to swing the results in a tight race, as the contest is shaping up to be.

“If the race remains close, anything could tip the difference,” said non-partisan pollster Scott Rasmussen. He cautioned, however, that both Nader and Barr were slipping in recent surveys, and could decline even more by Election Day.


Nader is on the ballot in 45 states and the District of Columbia, but he missed the ballots in Georgia, Indiana, North Carolina, Oklahoma and voter-rich Texas, all of which are leaning towards McCain, according to recent surveys.


Cynthia McKinney, a former Democratic congresswoman from Georgia, is the Green Party’s candidate in November and is on the ballot in 32 states and the District of Columbia. Chuck Baldwin, the nominee of the Constitution Party, a right-leaning counterpart to the Greens, is on 37 state ballots, according to Winger’s tally.

Bob Barr, the former Republican congressman from Georgia who is the Libertarian Party candidate, made the ballot in at least 44 states, according to Winger. Barr did not make the ballot in D.C. or West Virginia, and he is challenging Connecticut’s decision to drop him from the rolls after the state invalidated signatures on his candidate petitions and said that he did not reach the minimum.

Barr also has mounted court challenges to rulings leaving him off the ballots in Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts and Oklahoma.

56. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

3rd party candidates and state ballot tallies in moderation, I think.

lc – Further research has revealed that some cougars like the herb, too!

57. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

William Grieder today: Paulson Bailout Plan a Historic Swindle.

Financial-market wise guys, who had been seized with fear, are suddenly drunk with hope. They are rallying explosively because they think they have successfully stampeded Washington into accepting the Wall Street Journal solution to the crisis: dump it all on the taxpayers. That is the meaning of the massive bailout Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has shopped around Congress. It would relieve the major banks and investment firms of their mountainous rotten assets and make the public swallow their losses–many hundreds of billions, maybe much more. What’s not to like if you are a financial titan threatened with extinction?

If Wall Street gets away with this, it will represent an historic swindle of the American public–all sugar for the villains, lasting pain and damage for the victims. My advice to Washington politicians: Stop, take a deep breath and examine what you are being told to do by so-called “responsible opinion.” If this deal succeeds, I predict it will become a transforming event in American politics–exposing the deep deformities in our democracy and launching a tidal wave of righteous anger and popular rebellion. As I have been saying for several months, this crisis has the potential to bring down one or both political parties, take your choice.

58. marisacat - 19 September 2008



*** The first presidential debate takes place Friday, Sept. 26 from the University of Mississippi in Oxford, MS. The 90-minute debate, moderated by PBS’s Jim Lehrer, will focus on foreign policy and will begin at 9:00 p.m. ET


hmm I have been noticing, especially during parts o fhte convention coverage where it was unscripted and he was not “covered” by propping up other peoples’ conversation with dull questions… he/Lehrer is in … well I would say “compromised” shape following his return after extended time off for illness (can’t wuite remember think it ws surgery for heart valve something or other)..

If the evening gets confusing or hairy at all, he will be lost.

59. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

56. some cougars like the herb, too!

Memo to self: stay away from cougars.

60. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

57. The politicians would have to literally walk into people’s homes and steal money directly from their wallets/purses before anything nearing some sort of rebellion might actually be pondered. Even then the gov’t has its handy anti-terrorism laws to keep anybody from making any noise.

61. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Too bad we can’t paste that Greider column to the foreheads of both chumps about to screw us over (in addition to congress and the current occupant 1600 Penn Ave). A LOBBYIST sought remedy.

62. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008
63. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Moyers Journal tonight will have Kevin Phillips, (latest book BAD MONEY: RECKLESS FINANCE, FAILED POLITICS, AND THE GLOBAL CRISIS OF AMERICAN CAPITALISM), NYT financial writers Gretchen Morgenson and Floyd Norris, and a piece on global reaction to the market meltdown.


64. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008
65. marisacat - 19 September 2008

ooo I will def catch Moyers.. Have nto seen KP on there for ages and really like Morgenson and Floyd Norris.

66. marisacat - 19 September 2008

well after the last big bubble that ‘dot com dot died’ thing, I thought CNBC should be arrested. Prosecuted, cited – SOEMTHING.

They ran the market up. As egregious was the stock talk on FOX on Saturday am. CRIMINAL.

67. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008
68. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

It’s time for me to start stockpiling cheesecake.

69. liberalcatnip - 19 September 2008

Did Obama author the stimulus package? WaPo gives him 2 Pinocchios.

70. CSTAR - 19 September 2008

# 57 Let me repeat the possibility mentioned in the previous thread about some direct action in the “Rumsfeldian stuff happens” style. Little gatherings of disgruntled citizens around Wall-Street and some academic institutions with the intent of causing transfers of physical assets (laptops, mobile phones, small appliances) to counterbalance transfer of financial assets.

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

4 – the idea is to finish off ALL social connections that happen as part of what anachronistically used the “social compact” into discrete bundles of commercial and demographically-identifiable packages, ideally to individuals or easy-to-manipulate people like people who go to the same church or who curse hippies at the same VFW.

72. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

68 – I’m expecting to see a run on battery-powered popcorn poppers and slingshots.

Way under the radar, and FWIW, I can report some anecdotal evidence of increased consumer inquiries regarding personal bankruptcy this very week. I think people are watching the nightly news and saying, If these rich fuckers are doing it, why can’t we? At least we’ll save our home/car/food-and-fuel money this winter.

The credit house of cards has lots and lots of little cards yet to fall.

73. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

5 – [T]he domestic agenda of the next president is shrinking.

I know that is how it’s gonna play out, but they managed to find trillions to murder a nation and apparently trillions to bail out the bankers … it seems to me that a way can be found to pay for a domestic agenda.

Not that the party(s) are gonna do it, but theoretically they COULD.

74. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

what will we do if the MEN are hormonal TOO!?!

Well, of course we are. I always found it funny that people denied it. Hell, getting thru the teens, 20s and 30s without having nearly every thought highjacked by your eyes following a passing female is damned near impossible. It’s a wonder guys get anything done.

75. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

70 – Right. Cue the tape loop of the giant urn(ings) exiting stage left!

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

One good thing Nouriel Roubini has said is that a ton of hedge funds larded with “dull talent” will be going under.

I think a lot of them will try to launch small-outfit 40 Act mutual funds, then spend tons of time bitching about all the regulations.

77. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Further to 71, and maybe 60 – Politicians, despite their warm homilies about this or that hard-working family in trouble, may be underestimating the size of the “underground” economic class, including plenty of ordinary-looking workers. Lots of people can’t even risk putting money in a bank account, because their wages would be seized for old judgment credit card debt, with piles and piles and piles of lovely interest from the date that default occurred. The Would-Be Seizers? Many of the same big names on Wall Street parade this week.

And don’t think ordinary working people don’t know about their 401ks or life insurance policies. Many have been cashing out bits of their own meager retirement “assets” (with penalties) just to make it through, for years.

78. marisacat - 19 September 2008


yeah they never planned to do any of that anyway. One reason ObRama’s speeches which were mostly lists of promises were so painful. It was a mug’s game from the get go. IMO.

ALSO one thing we saw in the West, at least, when 9/11 hit, firms that had been suffering for whatever reason, but loathe to lay off (mostly fro reasons of “face”) immediately used 9/11 and laid off. And some companies that were nto hurting used it to clean out.

So I expect a spike in already high lay offs. They said today our official out of work number here in CA is 7.7. God knows what it really is if one counted those off the unemployment ins lists and those who have given up looking.

79. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

77 – They’re gonna need a pithy catchphrase for the inevitable ______ Changed Everything reprise.

80. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Thanks for the Amy Goodman piece, catnip.

The meltdown is a bipartisan affair. Presidential contenders John McCain and Barack Obama each have received millions of dollars from these very companies that are collapsing and are receiving the corporate welfare. President Clinton and his treasury secretary, Robert Rubin (now an Obama economic adviser), presided over the repeal in 1999 of the Glass-Steagall Act, passed after the 1929 start of the Great Depression to curb speculation that caused that calamity. The repeal was pushed through by former Republican Sen. Phil Gramm, one of McCain’s former top advisers. Politicians are too dependent on Wall Street to do anything. The people who vote for them, and whose taxes are being handed over to these failed financiers, need to show their outrage and demand that their leaders truly put “country first” and bring about “change.”

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

I heard somebody the other day on cable or the radio (it all runs together after a while) compare the financial crisis to Katrina.

Only the financial crooks are gonna be saved, of course.

82. marisacat - 19 September 2008


untouchable class. Even more than it ever was, codified and protected by federal regs. Acutally HHS refers ti it as proposed law.

A friend I dearly loved at work, he was so wonderful and witty… but he had reconstructive surgery related to the type of sex he engaged in. Well so what, frankly. One more patient needing care. He was lucky, had insurance, and was here in SF.

But just think of people out there in Great America, Disneyland America, Six Flags America – gah gah white family land… here too, Catholic Hospitals West which only uses CHW… geesh. But there you are in Baltimore Catechism land.


Listening to Dobb of CT, looking so white potato Irish pol, give cover to Wall St. How impressed he was by the careful language used. WHAT FUCKERS.

83. marisacat - 19 September 2008


very true all of that…

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

NOW on PBS is interesting tonight, too: Women, Power and Politics

85. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

Charges Against Journalists at RNC Dropped; Questions Remain

ST. PAUL, Minn. — Local authorities in St. Paul announced today that they will not prosecute journalists who were arrested on misdemeanor charges during the Republican National Convention earlier this month.

“This is an important first step, but many questions remain,” said Nancy Doyle Brown from Twin Cities Media Alliance. “We still need answers about why and how journalists got swept up in these arrests in the first place. And more than anything else, we need to ensure that this never happens again. We’ll never know how many important stories never got told because their authors were behind bars, not in the streets.”

Nearly two dozen reporters were arrested during the four-day event, including Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman and two of her producers, Associated Press reporters, student journalists, and local TV photographers, among others. Other journalists were pepper-sprayed, and reporters with I-Witness were held at gunpoint during a “pre-emptive” police raid aimed at disrupting protesters. The press release from St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman’s office noted that the city’s attorney will use a “broad definition and verification to identify journalists who were caught up in mass arrests during the convention.”

86. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

From yesterday’s Daily News Sen. Schumer says banks deserve lifeline from Congress.

The New York Democrat warned, however, against reviving something like a Resolution Trust Corp., which was formed in 1989 to dispose of the assets of failed savings and loans and then went out of business.
Schumer, who outlined his plan on the Senate floor, is an outspoken advocate for the financial industry, since so many of those workers are in his home state.

“Without a comprehensive solution that helps keep people in their homes, no amount of money advanced by Uncle Sam will restore the fundamental strengths of the American economy,” he said. “Unless we also solve our financial problem the economy will not recover and the housing problem will get worse, so we need to do both.”

Under Schumer’s model, the government would give capital infusions or loans to banks in return for an equity stake, similar to the deal struck with insurance giant American International Group, Inc. earlier this week.

In return, the banks would lift objections to legislation allowing loan modification for homeowners in bankruptcy. Currently, a person in bankruptcy cannot renegotiate the terms of their mortgage, unlike other kinds of debt.

By offering his plan, Schumer is specifically opposing another proposal being eyed by powerful members of Congress. House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass., said Wednesday such an entity might be needed in coming months to stabilize markets and prevent more implosions at major financial institutions.

“There have been a series of ad hoc interventions that have not worked,” Frank said. “Has the private market made so many mistakes and burdened itself with so much bad paper that there needs to be some public intervention?”

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008
88. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

From the Albany Times-Union, today State’s fiscal crater grows: New analysis shows cost of Wall Street crisis could exceed earlier estimates.

ALBANY — A new projection shows Wall Street’s meltdown could cost New York up to 40,000 private sector jobs and $3 billion in tax revenues over the next two years, two state officials said Thursday.

The revised numbers in the snapshot of worst-case estimates was done Wednesday at the highest levels of government. They are worse than Gov. David Paterson’s estimate just Tuesday that the state would lose about $1 billion in revenue because of plummeting stock values and the need for federal bailouts of the financial sector.

Wall Street is a major economic force in New York state, generating one-fifth of the state’s revenues each year.

The officials, including one senior administration official, spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to comment on the fiscal analysis.

Both the revenue and job hits would be substantial. The total state budget including federal funds is about $120 billion. New York has about 7.25 million private-sector jobs, after losing 6,500 jobs, or 0.1 of 1 percent, in July. Employment had already declined in five of the first seven months of the year.

89. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008
90. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008
91. marisacat - 19 September 2008

I just hear d Ob again… his talk speech thing from a podium today, for the cameras. No crowd for whom he is The One in view.

He says we are “all in this together”.

Oh I so feel the love.

92. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

ah, schadenfreud, how I love thee:

He met her in the bar of the swank hotel and invited her to his room. Once there, the woman fixed the drinks and told him to get undressed.

And that, the delegate to the Republican National Convention told police, was the last thing he remembered.

When he awoke, the woman was gone, as was more than $120,000 in money, jewelry and other belongings.

The thief’s take stunned cops.

“It’s very, very, very rare,” Minneapolis Police Sgt. William Palmer said. “I can think of a couple of burglaries where we had that much stolen, but it’s the first time I’ve heard of this kind of deal.”

In a statement released today, Gabriel Nathan Schwartz, 29, of Denver, put the figure at much less.

“It’s embarrassing to admit that I was a target of a crime. I was drugged and had about $50,000 of personal items stolen, not the inflated number that the media is reporting from an inaccurate police report,” he said.

“As a single man, I was flattered by the attention of a beautiful woman who introduced herself to me. I used poor judgment.”

Contacted by the Denver Post Monday, Schwartz declined to speak on the record. In the statement released today, Schwartz said he would decline further interview requests.

The haul included a $30,000 watch, a $20,000 ring, a necklace valued at $5,000, earrings priced at $4,000 and a Prada belt valued at $1,000, police said.

Schwartz is a single attorney and a fixture in Colorado Republican politics. He was one of the state’s delegates to the convention this month in St. Paul.

And thus we come full circle to men and their hormones!

93. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

funny how THIS wasn’t the butt of jokes like Kucinich was: McCain Acknowledges the “Lights Over Arizona” Were UFOs

94. marisacat - 19 September 2008

earrings priced at $4,000

was he wearing them when she picked him up?

95. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

He should just be happy that he wasn’t wearing a white gold Prince Albert.

96. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

Kevin Phillips is just on fire on Moyers, heaps of scorn on Obama and McCain, both parties, Wall St etc. Morgenson and Norris are pretty sobering.

97. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

96 – Phillips absolutely on fire! Loved it. And too many funny lines to count!

Attention baseball fans: Moyers is also doing a baseball piece, re Yankee stadium, for the end of the show.

98. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

Phillips on Moyers:

BILL MOYERS: And you write also that during this period the Clinton Administration aided and abetted this kind of speculation. Bill Clinton’s economic advisor, Bob Rubin, who later became Secretary of Treasury — wanting to fuel this, right?

KEVIN PHILLIPS: It’s been a bipartisan phenomenon. You can go back to the 1980s and say Reagan and George Bush, Sr., got a bubble started. Clinton got in and got an even bigger bubble going. And then George W. Bush with the biggest bubble of all. But it’s not that the Clintonites didn’t play. They did. Bob Rubin as Secretary of the Treasury — I mean, if he was a Hindu and he was being reincarnated, he’d come back as a pail because this guy bailed out everything you can imagine. They had the Mexican loan bailout. They had the long-term capital management bailout, the Russian Southeast Asian currency bailouts.

KEVIN PHILLIPS: Oh, there may be a pretense in some quarters. I mean, obviously people who were doing the bailouts are saying how important it is that we don’t rock or endanger the financial system. Some would say to the contrary that the best thing we could do would be to put its failings out there and let the making cure it.

I don’t expect that to be the prevailing view. We’ve had 25 years of what I call financial mercantilism, which is the government aiding and pushing and bailing out the financial sector. It’s not going to change. But I do think finance is going to lose its control over the economy in the sense that the public is going to be so angry they’re going to insist on more regulation.

And you can see that both presidential contenders are now talking somewhat more regulation and anger at finance. So I think that’ll crimp their style a little bit. But I’m afraid that the, you know, the horse is way out of the barn.

BILL MOYERS: But as we speak, central banks are pouring billions of dollars into the global economy. Is this a palliative or is this a panacea?

KEVIN PHILLIPS: Oh, I think it’s a tricky game. In one respect, they want to make a lot of money available to make it easier to get lending unfrozen. The second thing they want to do is support the dollar, which is under enormous pressure now because people say it’s not a store house of anything. If you want to keep your money safe, put it in gold. So they’re worried about the huge rise that gold had in this week.

So I think what we’re looking at here is an attempt really like a drunk will feel better and get over his hangover better sometimes just by having more liquor. And I think what we’re seeing with the actions of the Federal Reserve Board is the people who are the arsonists, the people who pumped it all up, who blew up the bubble are now racing to show up in firemen’s hats and say, “We’re gonna solve it. We’re gonna take care of all this. Oh, and by the way, we’re gonna keep pumping in the gasoline that we pumped in before that made a good flame.” But, you know, nobody knows that.

KEVIN PHILLIPS: You go through a painful adjustment process. The British were absolutely top dog in the world in 1914. Two world wars and 35 years later, they were having, after World War II, they were having food rationing, the pound sterling crashed, dukes were giving guided tours of their castles because they couldn’t afford to maintain them otherwise. Doesn’t take long. And I’m afraid the United States is coming right into that period which marks a couple of decades coming up that are going to be very difficult for America.

BILL MOYERS: You wrote in that AMERICAN PROSPECT piece that some people, particularly in the reform community and among progressives, see this as a great opportunity for returning to the New Deal regulatory period instigated by Franklin Roosevelt in the pits of the Depression. You don’t think that’s happening.

KEVIN PHILLIPS: Well, I mean, there’s several difficulties here. First of all, at this point, what you’ve got are the Democrats are the party right at this point that’s getting most of the financial money. When Franklin D. Roosevelt won in 1932, we know he wasn’t getting most of the financial money.

The second thing is I don’t think we’re more than partway through. The Democrats think it’s going to be another 1933, they get in there, they can do all the New Deal stuff. My feeling is that they’re coming in halfway and they’re going to have to make hard decisions that are going to eat the Democratic coalition like a bologna sandwich. They’re going to start civil wars-

BILL MOYERS: How come? What do you mean?

KEVIN PHILLIPS: Well, if you’re going to bail out Wall Street while you’re saying oh, the Social Security recipients, maybe they don’t even need that money. A lot of people in the financial community basically want to push Social Security on some sort of voluntary basis and needs test it and get rid of it. Now, a lot of Democrats in the labor movement are very nervous about Obama. They put out press releases talking about Rubin-nomics because they see that the flesh of the Democratic Party carries a lunchbox. But the new soul of the Democratic Party wears a pinstripe suit.

99. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Sample of Phillips snidecracking (on the dilemmas facing an Obama admin if he wins the WH): They’ll be facing choices that will eat the Democratic coalition like a balogna sandwich!

100. marisacat - 19 September 2008

a white gold prince albert…

well forgive my ignorance but is that something that squeezes somwhere tender.. LOL


I don’t get Moyers til 10 pm PT I won’t miss it tonight tho……

101. Intermittent Bystander - 19 September 2008

Ha ha . . .as Smithee used to say at pff, Well smell you, Nancy Drew!

Mr. Speedy Verbatim in the Transcriptsplace.

102. marisacat - 19 September 2008


well as Greider pointed out – in the piece you linked and sniped, this may end one or both parties.

Quite a few scenarios shaping up… all of them brutal

103. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008
104. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 September 2008

101 – I’m all about the bookmark!

105. marisacat - 19 September 2008


just moved the Phillips link and snips o the new thread…

106. marisacat - 19 September 2008


oh i get it now.

107. marisacat - 19 September 2008

Just hearing a reporter on KQED/PBS say it is one point THREE trillion… and it all may fail.

You gotta love how they bake a cake in Washington and Wall St.


New Thread:


………………….. 8) …………………….

108. marisacat - 19 September 2008

LOL From his Gladiatorial post below Foodie post…

I suppose this is all bad for my retirment account, but damned if I’m not enjoying it. Watching market apologists who believe that the storm is going to blow over and the ship right itself sometime in the next forty-odd days get swept overboard, food for crabs, is going to be even better. I caught a brief snippet of Kudlow the other day and thought to myself, Now there is a man with blood in his stool. At this point, these motherfuckers better hope the Large Hadron Collider swallows the fucking world. It’s their only hope

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