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This gave me a laugh… 30 September 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, U.S. House, U.S. Senate, WAR!.


An image of the US president (C) and Indian leaders is displayed at a protest in Hyderabad against an India-US nuclear deal. [AP via BBC]

From the SFGate.com/San Francisco Chronicle coverage (I laughed all the way thru it, rich in quotes and characterisations!):

Members have described themselves as hostages. Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles County), who voted against the bailout, said the original Treasury plan was “a ransom note that said if you ever want to see your 401(k)s again, send us $700 billion in unmarked bills.”

Dennis Byrne from Chicago Trib…

That an upstart public would flood Congress and the administration with unscripted, immediate and overwhelmingly negative reaction was, itself, considered a disaster of unprecedented proportions. You could read in the faces of the Wall Street types on CNBC and elsewhere their astonishment that anyone would dare defy their wisdom. Jim Cramer, the popular stock guru, expressed it best when he stated that the folks who opposed the deal are “not knowledgeable or sophisticated.”

As if everyone who disagreed with him is stupid.

Just hearing none other than O Reilly pushing the Bail Out… LOL… gotta love the bird feathers that get stuck together…


Bay Area delegation’s roll call

By a vote of 228-205, the House defeated the $700 billion bailout package. How the Bay Area delegation voted (a “yes” vote is a vote in favor of the bailout):

Voting Yes

Anna Eshoo D-Palo Alto (14th District)

Mike Honda D-San Jose (15th District)

Zoe Lofgren D-San Jose (16th District)

Jerry McNerney D-Pleasanton (11th District)

George Miller D-Martinez (7th District)

Nancy Pelosi D-San Francisco (8th District)

Jackie Speier D-Hillsborough (12th District) part of her district runs thru a SF neighborhood as well..

Ellen Tauscher D-Walnut Creek (10th District)

Voting No

Barbara Lee D-Oakland (9th District)

Pete Stark D-Fremont (13th District)

Mike Thompson D-St. Helena (1st District)

Lynn Woolsey D-Petaluma (6th District)

and Pete Stark has been happily going on all the Bay Area talk radio, deee-lighted to chat.  What a hoot!  He was just ready and waiting this am on KGO, on another line was supposed to be George Miller (confidant of Ms Pelosi) who was then… not on the line!



Hey!  Alla youse! Cheer up!


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (left), Majority Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C. (center), and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md. (second from right), head for a news conference after the bailout was voted down. (Getty Images)


halfway between sleep and wake this am, I caught a stray comment about this, off early am local TV news, later searched both SFGate.com and SJ Mercury News, nada.  Supposedly Sheehan will join them… Finally I googled and found the PR at the Nader/Gonzalez 08 site

Monday, September 29, 2008 at 12:00:00 AM

News Advisory
Contact: Ryan Mehta, 408-348-0681, rmehta@votenader.org (National HQ);
Lynda Hernandez 714-803-9676, (Local)

WHO: Ralph Nader and Matt Gonzalez

WHAT: Press Conference

WHEN: Tuesday September 30 at 10:00am

WHERE: Federal Reserve Bank, 101 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94105

On Tuesday September 30 at 10:00am, consumer advocate and Presidential candidate Ralph Nader will host a press conference with his Vice Presidential candidate Matt Gonzalez at the Federal Reserve Bank, 101 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94105

The Nader/Gonzalez campaign will speak out against the unjust, restrictive, and undemocratic Commission on Presidential Debates. The CPD, a corporation headed since its inception by two former chairs of the Democratic and Republican parties, shuts third party candidates away from public view, maintaining a stranglehold on the two party system and stifling the political conversation in this country.

The Nader/Gonzalez ticket is encouraged by AB 1945, which has passed in both the Assembly and the Senate.  If signed into law, the bill will make it illegal for insurance companies to cancel the medical coverage of their clients for accidental mistakes in their medical history. This loophole is currently sometimes used throughout the country in order to deny legitimate claims on the basis of medical history technicalities.  The bill would require the insurance companies to prove that a client intentionally misrepresented their medical history.

Proposition 6, the so-called “Safe Neighborhoods Act,” * would make prisoners out of children. In the country with the most per capita citizens in jail already, this would be an unacceptable further step in the wrong direction. Care should be taken to instead invest in rehabilitation for criminals generally and of course children specifically.  The money spent on sending children to jail could be used in various other productive and beneficial ways. It could be used to improve the destitute healthcare system in California which leaves 6.6 million Californians uninsured, according to the California HealthCare Foundation. It could be used to fund public schools in California, which receive one-fourth the money per student as prisons do per prisoner. Instead of locking California children in jail, Nader/Gonzalez believes we should secure their future with single-payer healthcare and increased funds for public education.  ::snip::

It’s practically illegal to be a child now.  Or a youth……………. and, while you are a youth, be certain to dress like a Mormon missionary…

* all I could find was a YES on Prop 6 site, it seems to be the old Stop Gangs Now, Cops Will Save You!  Give Us Money!  Now!


Via Ambinder, just a full text snag… 😉

Pew Research, which last week found that 57% of Americans support government intervention to save the economy, finds this week that public support has dropped; only 45% support a “government plan to invest or commit billions to secure financial institutions.” 38% say they’re opposed; the rest don’t know.

Independents are the least likely to support it (42%); Republicans are the most likely (49%)  Two thirds say they’re “angry” about the plan, which independents being the angriest and Republicans being the least angry.

Note that Pew does not poll the term “bailout.


ObRama Speaks.. in NV (I am sure McC is being just as useless out there, but Ob’s quotes are riding at the top of The Page):

“There will be time to punish those who set this fire, but now is the moment for us to come together and put the fire out.”

“Right now our job is to put out the fire, and we can’t forget that.”

Adds:“This financial crisis is a direct result of the greed and irresponsibility that has dominated Washington and Wall Street for years now.”  [but is nowhere near Chicago!!  NONE!!   — Mcat ]

Some more!

“What it means is that if we do not act, it will be harder for you to get a mortgage for your home or the loans you need to buy a car or send your children to college.”

“What it means is that businesses won’t be able to get the loans they need to open new factories, or hire more workers, or make payroll for the workers they have…Millions of jobs could be lost. A long and painful recession could follow.”  [pick up your garlic and crucifixes on the way out, it is what we have to offer!  …Mcat]

Stiglitz this am is out with a quote, he predicts we get ObRama AND a long recession. Lessee, the alternative is McCain and a long recession?

Cancel the confetti and balloons, at least!  No?  But She told me the party was OVER!!



1. lucid - 30 September 2008

It’s practically illegal to be a child now.

Tell me about it. I certainly would have been thrown in jail if I was growing up now… in a related note, due to my unhealthy connection to ND sports due to my youthful experiences, I’ve noticed a rash of articles in their student paper complaining about police enforcement surrounding both football games and campus in general. It appears that they are randomly throwing people in jail if they even suspect them of being drunk! And of course cops are targeting known student houses off campus for raids looking for that greatest of evils – underage drinking! Is there a new temperence movement afoot? If that’s the case – I’m outta here…

2. marisacat - 30 September 2008

Oh we are moving heavily into a long period of prohibition. And mere suspicion that one might possibly, given circumstances, do something or other… Not just abortion, everything.

My mother used to say, “when I was young stealing a car was joy riding, now it is grand theft auto”.

3. NYCO - 30 September 2008
4. marisacat - 30 September 2008

on “underage drinking” I do thnk the 100 or so college deans did try, a few weeks ago with their letter to please investigate and talk about the issue of drinking, and consider and discuss lowering it to 18.

And of course MADD rose up, as a oppressed virago, ready to save the nation… I don’t know where the effort from the universities might end up…

5. NYCO - 30 September 2008

1. Yes but to be fair it’s not underage drinking, it’s the loud parties the cops are going after. And it isn’t fair to the neighbors to have to put up with that crap every weekend, particularly when the neighbors have been there for decades and the students are transitory. Why can’t these kids act their age? You can enjoy alcohol without being a total a–hole. Going to college does not make you “special” in that regard.

And one more thing: Get offa my lawn! 🙂

6. NYCO - 30 September 2008

I thought the college letter about the drinking age was silly. It’s the rampant sense of entitlement that produces this behavior much more than the drinking age. For other reasons, I think the age needs to be lowered back to 18… but not because college deans are having a rough time of it.

7. marisacat - 30 September 2008


LOL what a hoot, I expected a pic of some 30 pounder…. looking baleful as he was not near his food bowl… 😉

8. marisacat - 30 September 2008


well the conversation has to start somewhere.. with Fed regs that withhold highway transportation funds, if a state lowers the age, there is little hope of change.

Frankly I could care less personally, I am opposed to silly regulations and when I was growing up I was never denied either watered down wine at home or once I was 17 ro so a drink out in the world.

9. marisacat - 30 September 2008

Ambinder on a new Plan apparently coming from some of the NO! and Hell NO! votes… LOL… and he comes right out and calls Open Left a site that is ‘whipping support’ for it (with a link, I spared myself)

10. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

From the top rec’d dkos diary:



11. marisacat - 30 September 2008

sounds like Bloomberg is going to push for a third term. Wonder what party, LOL….;)

12. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008
13. lucid - 30 September 2008

And it isn’t fair to the neighbors to have to put up with that crap every weekend, particularly when the neighbors have been there for decades and the students are transitory.

Which is why universities should do a better job of using their endowments to create student neighborhoods… That said, the great thing about going to a Quaker school was that everybody drank on campus and the local cops weren’t allowed in… hell we even budgeted for kegs in our student activity fund…

4 – I remember the links here about a month back.

Back to the neighborhood thing though – even as an adult I think that at least in younger urban neighborhoods, there should be an expectation of and tolerance for noise. If someone wants quiet, there are plenty of quiet places to live. There are people like myself who find solace in noise.

14. lucid - 30 September 2008

11 – why can’t he just retire and go back to counting his money…

15. marisacat - 30 September 2008


I did nto bother to follow the link to the NYT, but the indication was he is going to use the market instability to sort of endorse himself.


16. lucid - 30 September 2008

I took a look. He’s just going to overturn the term limits laws supported by voters twice by imploring a city council of which 2/3rds will be forced out in 2009 due to the laws to eliminate them… The sad thing is, with the change in demographics in the city, he might actually get away with it.

17. lucid - 30 September 2008

btw – I’m sure all the Kossacks for Bloomberg will be just thrilled!

18. brinn - 30 September 2008

Hi ya’ll — long time no type…it’s good to see you still here.
Been dealing with the various idiocracies that come with the start of a new school year.
2 kids in the malpractice ridden K-12 public schools and me trying to actually teach students [what a concept, eh?!] in the midst of the institution calling itself a university but holds as its highest priority protecting the people making 6 figures, most of whom don’t teach…..

and along came the bailout….

Marisa, I have a huge rant/spew that has been building for a while, but can’t remember if there are any length restrictions on posts here….mostly, I’d just like to get it out of me head, but I am also interested in hearing what others might have to say. Let me know if it’d be welcome at this point! 😉

19. marisacat - 30 September 2008

LOL via Tapper

[J]eff Ventura, a spokesman for the Chief Administrative Officer for the House of Representatives, tells ABC News that starting Sunday night, when the draft bill of the compromise legislation on the $700 billion bailout bill was posted on line, “immediately we saw a degradation in service.”

Normally, Ventura says, “a bill sits out there in the public sphere for awhile. Here there was a limited amount of time for folks to see the legislation.”

On Monday, the day of the vote, the House servers “saw a tremendous slowdown in service,” Ventura says.

Part of that was people looking at the vote count, but there was also “an extraordinary number of folks going to this application ‘Write Your Representative.'”

What is “extraordinary”?

“Millions,” Ventura says. “We haven’t done a statistical bean counting. That’s a bit like looking at a tidal wave, sitting there trying to count the number of drops of in the water before it hits you.”

It wasn’t just the Write Your Representative feature that was impacted, it was House.gov, the websites of individual members if Congress, the websites of House Committees. “Once the vote hit, users who went to House.gov experienced an incredible slowness or a blank page,” Ventura says.::snip::

20. marisacat - 30 September 2008



sure, fire away… it may land in Moderation or Spam, but I will g et it out…

Oops, brinn, almsot forgot to say HI!

Just an added caution, make a copy of your rant before you hit, post or say it or whatever, jsut in case WP is in hiccup mode.

21. NYCO - 30 September 2008

Which is why universities should do a better job of using their endowments to create student neighborhoods…

I agree. That would be a good use of money.

But, you can’t expect longtime residents to feel like selling their longtime homes because students are giving loud parties. They’ll fight, they’ll enlist the police, and students will always be at a disadvantage because… well, people who are stone drunk every other weekend aren’t exactly a coherent political bloc. But that’s the age old town-gown struggle for you. Students come in, they’re there for four years, think they’re moving into a “college town” that caters to their every wish. Not always true. I’m in Syracuse, which has a college in it but is not a college town (there are still a few other industries hanging on… and frankly, colleges are going to be scraping by not too long from now, as well), and there was just a big party raid over the weekend which hadn’t happened for a while.

I just think the culture in this country has to change a little… since when did people become adults at 25 years old plus, and not at 18? if you want to be treated as an adult you need to act like an adult. It’s a trust issue.

I do think the drinking age ought to be lowered, just because of the “old enough to kill but not for votin'” thing.

But actually, if I were a college student today, in debt up to my eyeballs and having fallen for the “pay now, play later” ploy with visions of nonexistent jobs dangled in front of me… I’d want to be stone drunk all the time, too.

22. marisacat - 30 September 2008

“People have asked whether the size of this plan, together with the weakening economy, means that the next president will have to scale back his agenda,” Obama told a crowd of thousands here. “The answer is both yes and no. With less money flowing into the treasury, it is likely that some useful programs or policies that I’ve proposed on the campaign trail may need to be delayed.”

But without naming anything he would scale back, he added, “There are certain investments in our future that we cannot delay precisely because our economy is in turmoil.”

from The Trail

23. lucid - 30 September 2008

21 – I guess maybe I’ve always been on the side of the noisemakers because I’m a musician. For the most part I’ve been lucky enough to have understanding neighbors, but I have run into a few problem ones along the way… Had a guy living upstairs from me for 6 months in the LES in 2002 who complained when I watched a friggin’ movie at a reasonable volume after midnight… so the recording guitars in the afternoon thing kinda sent him bonkers… I mean, come on dude, you moved to the LES – the land of Lou Reed and punk rock. Deal with it.

24. aemd - 30 September 2008

“The answer is both yes and no.”

Yep, that’s his whole campaign… straddle ALL issues…LOL.

25. marisacat - 30 September 2008


LOL reminds me of an interview Kerry gave during his run… just light stuff, he was asked fro his favorite movie star. he picked a Blonde AND a Brunette. Even koswhacks hung their little heads…

Not that it mattered… 😉

26. marisacat - 30 September 2008

The financial bloodbath will continue, but unless the deal on the table changes significantly, Henry Paulson gets to decide who lives and who dies. The former investment banker from Goldman Sachs would be empowered as treasury secretary to play savior or grim reaper, the liquidator who essentially pulls the plug on some banks and financial firms or the man who rescues them from ruin. Of course, Paulson would consult with other government officials. But you can be sure that, behind closed doors, he will ask former brethren in Wall Street to help decide which club members are worthy of saving. This power to pick winners and losers would remain in Paulson’s hands until a new president arrives in January.

This the essence of “the deal” Congress worked out over the weekend and was stymied today. Some bells and whistles were added to make the transaction less obnoxious to public opinion, voters and taxpayers. They are not meaningless, but both parties lacked the nerve to tamper with Paulson’s basic proposal. This is still a massive bailout of imploding Wall Street, financed with the public’s money. And it is still a massive crap shoot for the American people.


By January, whoever wins the White House, it will be clear that Washington cannot cure the disease by relying on one smart guy from Wall Street. A new federal agency will be needed to supervise the bailout and restore defined public purposes and enforce them on the system. The government will have to assert its powers forcefully, because by then it will be obvious the “voluntary” approach helped some losers to become winners, but it neglected to save the country.

Grieder on fail and fall out

27. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008


They are not meaningless, but both parties lacked the nerve to tamper with Paulson’s basic proposal.

I don’t know how anyone could have believed him when he repeatedly said in committee meetings and interviews last week that of course he expected oversight!

And wasn’t part of this bailout bill that was voted on the power granted to the president to okay the release of another $100 billion after the first injection of cash? Who, in their right mind, would grant that kind of spending power to any president? Once again, congress bailed on its responsibilities.

This really is insanity. Fear and panic-based insanity. And Obama’s right in there pushing it. This “pass something now, we’ll fix it later” bullshit shows exactly how much spine he doesn’t have.

28. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

Yikes. What’s next? A nudie of McCain?

29. marisacat - 30 September 2008

I don’t think anyone wants to paint Biden, in any way at all… and Obama only permits portraits of him as a New Age – pastels please! – Jesus::Savior or MLK or FDR or Lincoln or Mandela or………………………………….. McC will sign a pic of himself in bed in Hanoi, if you like.

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 September 2008

That pic in the red hallway is perfect! Blood on the walls.

31. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008


From the Center for Responsible Lending: Subprime Loan Foreclosures & Delinquencies versus Lender Workouts

The government plan announced by Treasury Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke fails to deal with the root cause of the crisis—families in foreclosure—and instead is simply a bailout of the lenders who created this disaster. The plan will not solve our economic problems, because it will do virtually nothing to stop the foreclosure epidemic. Continuing foreclosures will drag down the economy even further.

CRL has analyzed the performance of subprime loans included in ABX.HE indices, which are representative of the broader subprime loan market.[1] Based on this analysis, we estimate that over 1.2 million homes have already been lost through subprime foreclosure, and another 1.7 million families with subprime loans are in serious danger of losing their homes in the near future. [2]

In addition, published results by Hope Now—a consortium of mortgage lenders and investors established to assist struggling homeowners—clearly show that the foreclosure crisis continues to overwhelm the industry’s voluntary attempts to renegotiate unaffordable home loans.[3] (See chart below.) Even worse, a recent study shows that the voluntary loans modifications by lenders typically are increasing a borrower’s principal debt, and that many modifications are not even reducing monthly payments.[4]

Stress does kill people. Lotsa ways it happens.

32. marisacat - 30 September 2008

They are bringing out the Really Big ‘Liberal’ Guns now. James Galbraith in TAP.

[M]any are concerned with the fiscal implications of this bill, so let me turn to that question. Despite the common use of language, the capital cost of this bill does not involve “taxpayer dollars.” It authorizes a financial transaction, exchanging good debt (U.S. Treasury bills and bonds) for bad debt (the “troubled assets”). Many of those troubled assets will continue to earn income for some time, perhaps a long time. The U.S. Treasury commits itself to paying the interest on the debts it issues. The net fiscal cost — which is also the net fiscal stimulus — of this bill is the difference between those two revenue streams. Given the very low rate of interest presently prevailing on Treasury bills, this is likely to be somewhere between $20 billion per year and zero from the beginning, even if the Treasury were to issue all $700 billion in new debt at once. It is a mistake, in short, to count the capital cost as a “cost to the taxpayer.” This is not the war in Iraq.


In short, as I said at the beginning, the bill is a vast improvement over the original Treasury proposal. Given the choice between approving or defeating the bill as it stands, I would urge supporting the bill. I do so without illusions. There need be no pretense that it will solve our underlying financial and economic problems. It will not. The purpose, in my view, is to get the financial system and the economy through the year, and into the hands of the next administration. That is a limited purpose, but a legitimate purpose. And it may be the most that can be accomplished for the time being.

33. marisacat - 30 September 2008

Stress kills lots of people, but they refuse to REALLY look at it.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 September 2008

I think resentment and resistance to this bailout is only going to grow, and Wall St. helped kill it today with their huge arrogant rally. Where is the instant disaster they all warned of? It didn’t pass, and what happened? The rich guys all yelled, “awwww, they’ll pass it anyway, and in the meantime — BUYING OPPORTUNITY!”

35. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

And once again, it’s worth noting that it’s not just the subprimes defaulting.

36. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008
37. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

34 – Cortisol . . . adrenalin . . . testosterone . . .?

Laaaaaather, don’t bother to rinse, and repeat!


38. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

Senate sets vote on financial bailout – Wed nite.

How can they vote on it when it didn’t pass the house?

39. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

Cheap shot to the (more sentient) gents, I realize.


40. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 September 2008
41. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

38 – Anything they can do, we can do better!

I love how we’re supposed to treat the psychological disorders of the politico-economic marketplace with massive infusions from the common treasury, but perish the fucking thought of funding actual public health. (Not to mention decriminalizing homegrown herbal remedies for widespread human dis-eases!)

42. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 September 2008

38 – each chamber votes on its own schedule, and often on different versions, then the legislation goes to conference committee, where they sneak on lots of bullshit. The House will usually vote first, because their system works more quickly and has fewer ways for one member to block something, but it doesn’t have to go that way.

Thank goodness for Schoolhouse Rock!

43. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

41 – OMG, LOL, etc!

44. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

Oops, meant 40, I guess. (Florida Seniors on Jon Stewart.)

The Daily Shows I’ve caught lately have been pretty sharp and lively, must say.

45. NYCO - 30 September 2008

This guy is crossing the country in an RV drawn by four Percherons…


By the time he gets to California, we might all be traveling that way…!

46. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

45 – Was preparing this comment when I saw yours on the Percheron traveler. Bon voyage, Bob Skelding! Hope he and Joyce and Deedee and Doc and buggy find happy trails!

The biggest challenge in designing and building the wagon is to keep it light enough to pull and strong enough to last.

Words of wisdom, in general?!


In memorium to Nyac, longtime survivor of the Exxon Valdez: Famous Sea Otter Dies.

Nyac and Milo: Otters holding hands at Vancouver Aquarium.

CTV story on YouTube sensation of Nyac and Milo.

One more time, with pop song?
Otter / Beatles Remix.

47. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

Drat! Otter/HTML accident at comment 46!

(Intended quote quits after strong enough to last.)

48. marisacat - 30 September 2008


I think I fixed it… let me know if not………… 😉

49. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008

Thanks, MCat.

:::applause of grateful otters:::

You da best.

50. Intermittent Bystander - 30 September 2008
51. marisacat - 30 September 2008

Clear the highways… and the streets, shake the leaves from the trees! Hide the dogs, cats and kittens!

ObRama and McC are heading back to DC — to vote.

We are blessed……. [amen ramen]

52. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

40. Seniors Citizens Watch the Debate

I saw that last nite. Hilarious! 🙂

42. Thanks for the explanation, MitM. (screwed up system that it is…)

53. NYCO - 30 September 2008

50. Wow, IB, great find…

we chose, as we struggled to keep our lifestyle intact on the backs of the world’s poor, not to see that we stand on their backs, and it is people…all the way down.

What a quote. Thanks for sharing.

54. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 September 2008

52 – screwed up?!?!?!


We’re PERFECT!!!!


America is the schizzle!

If you all would just become the 51st state, as you should, you would KNOW this!

*** pant … pant ****

Are you sayin’ we aren’t. That they LIED to me in school?!?! How could that …

… *** wimper *** ….

>>>> madman crawls under desk, curls up in fetal positions, cradling a copy of Time Magazine w/ Ronald Reagan on the cover and tattered ole’ America Bear, his bestest friend <<<<

it’s morning in America, yes, it is AB, yes it is … don’t listen to that nasty Canuck … they all drink skunky beer ….

55. CSTAR - 30 September 2008

Tom Friedman endorsed the bailout.

I vaguely remember some other intervention he endorsed a few years ago, but it escapes me at the moment.

56. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

54. Speaking of meltdowns…

Want some poutine?

57. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

55. I vaguely remember some other intervention he endorsed a few years ago, but it escapes me at the moment.

Starts with W, ends with hundreds of thousands of dead people?

58. CSTAR - 30 September 2008

57. Yes yes, that’s it. Thanks for reminding me.

56. Je vous en prie? Poutine ou, (je n’ose dire quoi)?

59. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

58. tourtiere?

60. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

Yup. The debate should definitely be fun.

61. CSTAR - 30 September 2008


62. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008


Hey now, my tourtiere isn’t that bad!

63. CSTAR - 30 September 2008

60. Y un trago de un vino chileno para celebrar (o olvidar el desastre)

64. liberalcatnip - 30 September 2008

63. lol…you could pick up a bottle of that for the drinking game. 🙂

I’ll stick to my tea.

65. diane - 30 September 2008

Oh that pic…and those bloody walls….

yeah, why youse look so sad?

lemme go see see if I can find some hankies for youse from my shopping cart.

theyse not too fisticated, and thems gotta few holes in em, but youse gonna get some boogers on those silk soots….

66. diane - 30 September 2008

hmmmmmm I thought there was no more money to be borrowed:

Blackstone and JPMorgan in $1bn cinema deal

“….Blackstone and JPMorgan will brave shrinking credit markets by attempting to raise more than $1bn to fund the conversion of up to 20,000 US cinema screens to digital projection systems, in a deal due to be announced on Wednesday….”

67. diane - 1 October 2008

I loved this, a short discussion of one of Wall Street’s boogeymen: Kicking It With The FASB

FAS 157 “defines fair value, establishes a framework for measuring fair value in generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP), and expands disclosures about fair value measurements.” In other words, it tells you how to count. When to count. What to count. When to recount. And when to count down to zero.
Occasionally, authorities (and those lacking any authority in the topic at all) can be seen pointing suspiciously accusing fingers at FAS 157 with an eye towards blaming the rule for the many ills that presently plague the financial system. If it wasn’t for FAS 157, the argument goes, banks wouldn’t have to admit that the assets on their books were actually either worth next to nothing, or were impossible to trade and therefore were actually worth something like nothing at all.
Of course, the mistake here is in assuming that simply not disclosing that the bank is insolvent keeps it from being insolvent.

Fas 157 is the rule that the no voters on the Republican Side want to to do away with completely, Section 132 of the failed House Bill, didn’t go far enough for them:

(a) AUTHORITY.—The Securities and Exchange Commission shall have the authority under the securities laws (as such term is defined in section 3(a)(47) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 (15 U.S.C. 78c(a)(47)) to suspend, by rule, regulation, or order, the application of Statement Number 157 of the Financial Accounting Standards Board for any issuer (as such term is defined in section 3(a)(8) of such Act) or with respect to any class or category of transaction if the Commission determines that is necessary or appropriate in the public interest and is consistent with the protection of investors.

68. Intermittent Bystander - 1 October 2008

FYI – Grieder on Democracy Now this morning. Also Murray Waas on US Attorney firings report.

69. marisacat - 1 October 2008

Thanks for the alert IB

Grieder is up in transcript, so far…

What Paulson is doing is—the bankers got stuck with all these rotten assets, which they created and sold to each other and to the world; now let’s take those off their hands, and they’ll be OK again. I’m not alone in saying that that’s a real crapshoot as to whether that works, first of all, because those banks, as I said, are going to get smaller, and they’re collapsed, and they may or may not start lending again. I would guess not, not until they see a vibrant economy again.

But it’s also—and this is where the public stepped up—it’s profoundly illegitimate as an act of democracy to take the money from taxpayers and say to the villains in this story, “Here, here. Can we help you out of your troubles?” No rules, no guarantees that these villains will correct their behavior, no really serious effort to write into this legislation a sense of where the system goes from here that’s honest.

At this hour, I would settle for honesty. If the politicians in Congress and the officials in the Bush administration and a few people from Wall Street would simply tell the people the truth about the situation, what they intend to do with the public money, that would be a good start.

70. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

CNN blurb: “Financial Crisis Drives Down Americans’ Opinions of Leaders”

I didn’t know it could get any lower.

71. marisacat - 1 October 2008

Tapper has a longish but very readable piece on the new vote, re vote, toss it to the senate vote on the “crap sandwich” .. What a hoot… the close:

[H]ouse Democrats are saying things along the lines of, “Well, I assume Leader Boehner knows he can deliver 30 votes for the Senate version, given that he signed of on this.”

The implication: not only will Boehner need to provide the entire 13-vote margin that the bill lost by on Monday, but also that the addition of the unpaid-for “tax extenders” could cause up to 17 Democrats who voted for the bill Monday to walk. If not more.

Some in Democratic leadership hope that the Senate addition of another tax relief provision — what’s called an AMT patch — could help keep those Blue Dogs on board, and that maybe some of the more liberal members will change their votes for the bill to support the tax extensions for renewable energy sources.

And, as previously discussed, they are also contemplating adding an extension of unemployment insurance to the bill.

Job numbers come out Friday morning (it seems likelier now that the vote will be Friday rather than Thursday) so that could help them pass it as well — Democrats hope — since those numbers are expected to be typically bad.

So bottom line: this thing could actually lose worse than it did Monday.

72. marisacat - 1 October 2008


LOL I guess it could go to single digits…………………. 😉

73. jam.fuse - 1 October 2008

Drinking age in Germany:

16 for beer (and wine I am guessing)

18 for booze

Very reasonable. I was informed these laws were only recently enacted due to an upsurge in kids drinking themselves to death or something. Previously, if I understood, there were no laws of any kind regarding drinking ages.

Stop Crime – Legalize Everything

74. marisacat - 1 October 2008

Previously, if I understood, there were no laws of any kind regarding drinking ages.

… and slowly the will learn too, that ”illegal” is not some magic potion…………..

75. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

Obamalama on the floor ending his bailout sales plan shilling with lofty rhetoric intended to create some kind of inspirational teevee news hour soundbite.

Spend money now!

76. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

74. ”illegal” is not some magic potion…………..

It is for Lou Dobbs. It turned him into a paranoid delusional Godzilla-like alien buster.

77. marisacat - 1 October 2008


…alien buster…

didn’t it ever. His whole fake populist, throw the bastards out/both parties, I am an Independent! rhetoric, is to sell his top to bottom anti immigrant, anti foreigner, anti anti lines.

78. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

Bernie Sanders is giving a firebrand anti-bailout speech complete with the names and pics of the Wall Street mega-millionaires – “the bandits” – and the amounts of their golden parachutes. Go Bernie!

This brainfart of the day brought to you by, who else, a kossack:

Democrats in lock step with Bush (0+ / 0-)

I’m freaking amazed at what assholes they’ve become.

by Art Tric on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:40:40 PM PDT

You wouldn’t be amazed if you’d been paying attention.

79. NYCO - 1 October 2008

So what if America’s financial system is collapsing… Bollywood is on strike!

“All shoots are off!” Dinesh Chaturvedi, Head of the Federation of Western India Cine Employees (FWICE) which controls over 20 unions representing Bollywood workers, declared today when announcing the biggest strike to hit Bollywood in 50 years.

The indefinite protest, reminiscent of the recent Hollywood Writers’ strike, is about low wages, late payments and the persistent use of non-union actors. Although Indian cinema owners often revolt against perceived high cinema entertainment tax slapped onto admission prices, this is possibly the first time in Bollywood’s history that its workers have stopped work en masse. Chaturvedi added: “It’s within our rights to ask for better pay. A film worker gets 600 rupees (about £8) a day. The least the producers can do is pay them on time.”

Consequently, over 140,000 film workers failed to turn up for work on Wednesday 1 October.

And billion people on the Indian subcontinent are going to be out on the streets… not in movie theaters. Kuch to hua hai, indeed.

80. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

77. Dobbs really is a one-trick pony – the darling of the circus of freaks.

81. marisacat - 1 October 2008

Bollywood on strike.. I am actually surprised. I hope they get better pay, it’s a globally marketed business they work in, after all.

82. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

I was right. $250 bn first. $100bn at the discretion of the president. $350bn later. Pure insanity.

83. NYCO - 1 October 2008

81. Yeah, one story I remember hearing (as example of bad working conditions) is how a stagehand got electrocuted by a wind fan on the set of Devdas in front of the film’s star, Aishwarya Rai.

84. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

Those speaking in favour of this bull (not a spelling mistake) have somehow morphed into psychics. “I predict we’ll make money on this!”

Maybe if they lose their seats they can start their own psychic hotlines to pay their bills.

85. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

Paulson Bank Rescue Proposal Is `Crazy,’ O’Neill Says

Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) — Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill said the $700 billion bank-rescue proposal under negotiation in Washington is “crazy,” with potentially “awful” consequences for the world’s largest economy.

“Doesn’t this seem like lunacy to you?” said O’Neill, who was President George W. Bush’s first Treasury chief, from 2001 to 2002, in a telephone interview today. “The consequences of it are unbelievably bad in terms of public intrusion into the private sector.”

O’Neill’s objections mirror those of Republicans in the House of Representatives who rejected the plan in a Sept. 29 vote. The former Treasury chief said he’s lobbying for an alternative solution that would offer guarantees for troubled assets, stopping short of purchasing the debt.

“Is anybody thinking there?” asked O’Neill, who also served as deputy budget director in the Ford administration. “It’s too late, it’s not going to make any difference and it’s aggravating as hell when there’s a better idea and you can’t even get it in play,” he said, recognizing little success so far in pitching his own proposal.

O’Neill, 72, was fired after an almost two-year tenure marked by strains with White House officials and comments that roiled markets.
O’Neill said he has tried to shop his ideas to congressional leaders including Joint Economic Committee Chairman Charles Schumer; Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd; and Senator Richard Shelby, the ranking Republican on the Banking Committee.

Senate Vote

“None of them are returning phone calls,” O’Neill said. “I honestly don’t think they really understand it and they’re so much in a bubble that it’s impossible to penetrate it.”

Meanwhile, the Senate is set to vote tonight on a modified version of the $700 billion rescue plan the House rejected two days ago. The House may vote again Oct. 3.

“If they pass this thing, it’s awful what the consequences are going to be in terms of an ongoing federal relationship that doesn’t need to exist with the institutions,” O’Neill said. “Are we going to insist on having a federal representative on boards of directors to protect our investment?”

The main component of the legislation now under consideration is giving the Treasury secretary authority to purchase distressed mortgage-related assets with an amount of money equivalent to about half of Canada’s annual gross domestic product.

“We have no capacity in the federal government and it’s not possible to create a capacity to manage a $700 billion property portfolio,” said O’Neill, who was chairman of Alcoa Inc., the largest U.S. aluminum producer, from 1987 to 2000. “It’s crazy. It’s like we’ve lost our moorings.”

86. marisacat - 1 October 2008
87. marisacat - 1 October 2008

Susan Page on TNH is saying USAToday/Gallup polled and only 20% support The Bail Out. a full 70% want it defeated or very much re worked.

Well ………………………

88. marisacat - 1 October 2008


New Thread…………………………….

………….. 8) ……………

89. liberalcatnip - 1 October 2008

Where’s Robert Byrd? I’d like to hear what he has to say about this (just because I like the way he talks about things – as if he’s the glorified godfather of the senate.)

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