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On and on it goes… 11 October 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Culture of Death, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, U.S. Senate, WAR!.

A Turkish army helicopter flies over the mountains in Sirnak near the Turkish-Iraqi border, October 2007. Turkish aircraft carried out a fresh attack on positions of the separatist Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) in northern Iraq on Saturday, the Turkish army said on its website. [Xinhua]

Full text from Reuters:

ANKARA (Reuters) – Turkish war planes and artillery have pounded bases of the Kurdish separatist group PKK in a big operation in northern Iraq, the military said on Saturday.

Turkish TV meanwhile reported that Ankara was considering talking to the Iraqi Kurdish government about acting against the PKK, which launches attacks inside Turkey from its bases inside northern Iraq.

Turkey has previously refused to sit at the negotiating table with the Iraqi Kurds and blamed them for not doing enough to drive out the PKK.

The military has stepped up its operations against the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) in southeast Turkey and across the border in northern Iraq after a series of deadly attacks by the separatists on Turkish soldiers.

An army statement said Turkish planes and artillery attacked 31 PKK targets in northern Iraq’s Hakurk region at about midnight Friday. The operation was a success, it said.

NTV broadcaster said that Turkish authorities wanted to seek the help of Iraqi Kurdish leaders against the PKK. They would consider inviting Nechirvan Barzani, who heads the Iraqi Kurdish regional government, to Turkey for talks.

Turkey’s parliament on Wednesday extended for another year a mandate for the military to launch operations against PKK rebels based in northern Iraq.

More than 40,000 people have been killed since the PKK launched its armed campaign for an ethnic Kurdish homeland in southeast Turkey in 1984.

(Reporting by Selcuk Gokoluk; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

… and arms dealers the world over stand up and cheer!

Turks chant nationalist slogans in downtown Istanbul, Turkey, Sunday, Oct. 28, 2007, during a protest against the separatist Kurdish rebel group of PKK. Turkish troops killed 15 Kurdish guerrillas in fighting far from the increasingly tense Iraq border region where some of the separatists have sought refuge, a news report said. Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan called for unity between Turks and Kurds against the rebels. (AP Photo/Murad Sezer)


Asia Times

[A]rmy secretary Pete Geren, a former four-term congressman from Texas, also cautioned last Monday that the proposed $700 billion rescue plan could take a toll on the army’s budget in the coming years. The financial crisis could exacerbate the fact that defense budgets traditionally are cut drastically at the end of wars, he said.

Because of its high personnel costs, the army does not have the flexibility of other services to spend on new weapons systems. Thus it will face substantial pressure to cut back on its troubled flagship modernization program, the Future Combat Systems, and its new helicopter programs.

They’ll just gin up the wars, one way or the other…

Last week, as it has each year since the mid-1990s, the US Army sent its “wish list” (in which it seeks to supplement its own budget with “extracurricular” money) that it, as well as the other services, sends to Congress each year after.

Given that it bears the largest share of combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, the army only sought $3.9 billion. Although, when you take into account the amount by which the 2009 army budget already has been increased over and above the extrapolated 2001 plan for 2009 it is apparent that the army actually is seeking a $54.5 billion “wish list plus-up”. Even so, the army leadership said it would seek larger overall budget requests in future years.

Ironically, this indicates that the basis for each of the services’ “plus-ups” is not war-related; instead they are an artifact of the post-September 11, 2001, political environment. Specifically, as noted above, in times of war politicians in the executive branch and Congress are willing to support a generally rising tide of defense spending, even when it is not spent on problem areas, such as a smaller force structure or reduced readiness.

Yet as long as the United States remains at war nobody expects to see a decline in military spending. Despite large war costs there is nothing comparable to the end of the Cold War, or the Great Depression that would drive military spending significantly downward.

My own guess is that they bleed the nation for wars as long as they can.  There is still a ton of money sloshing around, and part of the game will be seeing how adept Ob is at that… Americans love to stand tall and demand that the poor give up something.


Madman posted this to the last thread and it fits here…………..

Faster Uncle Sam! Kill! Kill!

Pentagon officials have prepared a new estimate for defense spending that is $450 billion more over the next five years than previously announced figures.

The new estimate, which the Pentagon plans to release shortly before President Bush leaves office, would serve as a marker for the new president and is meant to place pressure on him to either drastically increase the size of the defense budget or defend any reluctance to do so, according to several former senior budget officials who are close to the discussions.

Experts note that releasing such documents in the twilight of an administration is a well-worn tactic, and that incoming presidents often disregard such guidance in order to pursue their own priorities.

And with the nation’s economy caught up in a global financial meltdown, it remains unclear whether either Sen. John McCain , R-Ariz., Sen. Barack Obama , D-Ill., or a Democratic Congress would support such large increases for defense next year.

“This is a political document,” said one former senior budget official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “It sets up the new administration immediately to have to make a decision of how to deal with the perception that they are either cutting defense or adding to it.”

Dov Zakheim, the Pentagon’s top budget official from 2001 to 2004, who is not involved in the current discussions, agreed.

“The thinking behind it is pretty straightforward,” Zakheim said. “They are setting a baseline for a new administration that then will have to defend cutting it.”

The fiscal 2010 portion of the estimate includes a $57 billion increase, out of which $30 billion would go for a vaguely defined contingency fund and $14 billion would go for replacing or fixing existing equipment, called reset, and modernization, the former officials said.

They added that those items reflect the Pentagon’s attempt to anticipate the end of huge supplemental war allotments that have hidden the costs of resetting and modernizing the nation’s war-torn force. Both presidential candidates have pledged to scale back supplemental war spending.


And this from Intermittent Bystander from the last thread…

Hey guess what, folks? The Axis of Evil just lost a Supervillain, and nary a (US) missile was fired. International terra fightin’s so easy when you just use the Limpin’ Lame Duck (Holiday Weekend) Decree!

North Korea has moved to restart a disabled nuclear reactor and takes other provocative steps, including expelling U.N. inspectors and test-firing missiles. Those steps in recent weeks have heightened tensions in the region and place the shaky disarmament deal in peril.

The blacklist decision had been in the works since chief U.S. negotiator Christopher Hill returned from a trip to North Korea late last week. On his visit, he proposed a face-saving compromise under which the North would accept the verification plan after the delisting was announced. Previously, the U.S. had insisted that the North agree to the deal first.

I guess that means they’re with us, now!


Not to worry!  We have Pakistan and Afghanistan (the place that sinks empires), Iran, AfriCOM — plenty of choices for war expansion.  And that untidy continent to the South, that the Fourth Fleet is carefully watching for us.

There is always hope for war.




1. marisacat - 11 October 2008

Some of the “donors” are finding their vowels. Ob Camp should jsut post or make public all donors giving under 200.00, seems to be where a number of problems are.

New discoveries from a cursory review of the listings include Edrty Eddty, who donated $250 in July 2008 and Es Esh, who gave $325 in July. Esh hailed from this unusual address: ‘fhdfhdfh, Erial, NJ 08081’ Eddty listed his, or perhaps her, employer as ‘Poiuyttrrewe / Qwertyuio’ — the letters, more or less in order, found on the top line of standard computer keyboards,”

2. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008


the letters, more or less in order, found on the top line of standard computer keyboards,”

What does Obama have against Keyboard Americans?

3. marisacat - 11 October 2008

it did make me laugh.. which is worth something… and I did not even follow Tapper’s link to the WashPo article. I will save that giggle for after lunch.

So wish I drank. The wrong era to be stuck in sober.

4. aemd - 11 October 2008

I can see why people, True Believers (LOL), would fuck up their names and addresses. All that info is available on the intertubes,
ya know, just a google away. There is a backlash. People are crazy.

Divide and harden.
Yeah, it does that all right.

BTW, as always, great header pic.

5. marisacat - 11 October 2008


I agree, depending on what neighborhood i lived in, what part of the country, I would not want my name easily googleable, along with my donation and address, for either Ob or McC.

Back in 2003 I googled around in Open Secrets or similar, for some of the Liberal, old style Republicans I had gone to school with… and it was clear, they were moving big time to the Democratic party. Not just splitting donations between Dean and Kerry but giving in large amounts to the various Dem orgs, from DSCC, D3C and various Dem committes that accept big donations.

I did laugh, I mean, what can you do. And many of those old time liberal or Country Club R are more moderate than conservative Dems. And, they were very secular. The odd nod at Grace Cathedral, the Episcopalian hang out here, at Christmas…

We are so fucking scrwed.

6. marisacat - 11 October 2008

Oh waaaaa. Ob said he, in fact his very DNA, would bring us together. (I just saw the direct quote from him last night, not parroted by a surrogate and will fish it up)

And of course nothing is ever his fault.

I don’t think I am ever surprised, exactly, but I was at least shocked a few months ago when John Lewis supported the unhinged performance of Johnson of BET (such a responsible corporate citizen he and his wife, yeah really) in attempting to insinuate that Ob had dealt drugs. I don’t think Ob means us any good at all, but that was ugly. And it woudl not have been hard for JL to support Hillary and disassociate himself from Johnson’s remarks. thsi was on PBS TNH.

A few weeks later JL was declaring the Ob campaign to be as great a movement as Civil Rights. In those terms. IMO he followed his political leader and, I would guess, long time patron, Teddy Kennedy. Not a pretty picture to these worn out eyes. We are so fucking screwed. Both Hillary and Ob dragged a half dead party behind them. It made no difference. Esp as Ob girds his loins for a Clintonite Restoration himself.

So, all I see is the utter futility and the DANGER, the very real danger, of party politics. And bullshit. Overbrimming bullshit. Our cup runneth over, both sides all sides.

7. marisacat - 11 October 2008

“That’s in my DNA, trying to promote mutual understanding to insist that we all share common hopes and common dreams as Americans and as human beings.”

it’s in his so called “race” speech made to wiggle away from Wright. April 29th in Philadelphia, iirc. Will find the link.

8. marisacat - 11 October 2008

SENATOR BARACK OBAMA: Before I start taking questions I want to open it up with a couple of comments about what we saw and heard yesterday. I have spent my entire adult life trying to bridge the gap between different kinds of people. That’s in my DNA, trying to promote mutual understanding to insist that we all share common hopes and common dreams as Americans and as human beings. That’s who I am. That’s what I believe. That’s what this campaign has been about.

Federal News Service via NYT

Not from his ”race” speech but his comments after Wright’s spiral of appearances.

9. marisacat - 11 October 2008

Here is the report at Politico on the Lewis statements (I am sure there are other reports but apparently lewis made the charge in a Politico forum):

Civil rights icon John Lewis compared Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to George Wallace in a posting to Politico’s forum “The Arena,” accusing McCain of fostering “an atmosphere of hate” and “hostility” like the one that led to white supremacists’ 1963 bombing of a church in Birmingham, Ala.

Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Georgia who has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), pointed in his posting to “the negative tone of the McCain-Palin campaign,” and said the senator and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, “are sowing the seeds of hatred and division.”

McCain, in a book he wrote with aide Mark Salter called “Why Courage Matters: The Way to a Braver Life,” had lauded the leadership of Lewis in the nonviolent civil rights movement.

McCain called the accusation “shocking and beyond the pale” and called on Obama to “repudiate it.”

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

more blood and mudslinging! Popcorn all around!

11. diane - 11 October 2008

Odd…or, perhaps I should say..normal in these times…was just checking your last thread Red Winter for posts…refreshed a couple of times…..and the window that opened..cut the comments off at Bay’s comment 69…re the seeming bot Palin……………..

well me, I don’t believe anything happens without a reason…..then again….I believe in lots of things, things which could be wrong minded, and I don’t have the facts at hand to prove…well at least. it included the palin slam…it is unfortunate though, that the incineration of other humans and the very real dangers of current technologies among other really relevant comments disappear to myself and whomever else is checking…………….

Then again…the cup half full…is that I can still see some of your site Marisa …..

Thank goodness for Hope……………..just speaking for myself…….

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

Open up the debates to third parties By AMY GOODMAN

The reviews are in, and the latest U.S. presidential debate, the “town hall” from Nashville, Tenn., was a snore. One problem is that in a debate, it is important for the debaters to actually disagree. Yet Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain substantively agree on many issues. That is one major reason that the debates should be open, and that major third-party or independent candidates should be included.

Take the global financial meltdown. Both senators voted for the controversial bailout bill that first failed in the U.S. House of Representatives. It passed resoundingly in the Senate and, larded with financial favors to woo uncooperative House members, finally passed the House. The news each day suggests that the bailout hasn’t solved the problem. Rather, the economic contagion is going global, with European and Asian banks teetering on the brink of collapse. Iceland — not just its banks, but the country — faces financial ruin.

Earlier Tuesday, before the debate, the U.S. Federal Reserve announced that it would for the first time ever begin buying up the debt of private companies to help them meet short-term cash needs for things like payroll. Shortly after the debate ended, major central banks around the world, again for the first time ever, cut their prime lending rates in unison. Yet on the debate floor, there was no sense that the global financial system needed more than a tax cut here, a voucher there. The major thing lacking from the debate was, well, debate.

Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party’s presidential candidate, reacted to the debate, writing: “Sen. McCain, Sen. Barack Obama and the other members of Congress who have supported one bailout after another have turned fiscal responsibility into a sucker’s game. … There’s no meaningful difference between the two major parties.” The independent campaign of Ralph Nader put out a debate-watching e-mail, asking supporters to listen for key words and phrases, among them: “working class,” “Taft-Hartley Act,” “labor unions,” “military-industrial complex,” “single-payer health care,” “impeachment,” “carbon tax” and “corporate power.” None of these was mentioned.

At the core of the problem with U.S. presidential debates is that they are run by a private corporation, the Commission on Presidential Debates, founded in 1987 by the Republican and Democratic parties. The CPD took over the debate process from the League of Women Voters. Just once since then has a third-party candidate made it into the debate — Ross Perot in 1992. After he did well, he was excluded in 1996. The CPD requires contenders to poll at 15 percent before they qualify for any debate.

Nader calls the 15 percent threshold “a Catch-22 level of support that is almost impossible for any third-party candidate to reach without first getting in the debates.”

George Farah directs Open Debates, a group that works “to ensure that the presidential debates serve the American people first.” He told me that “historically, it has been third parties, not the major parties, that have supported and are responsible for the abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, public schools, public power, unemployment compensation, minimum wage, child labor laws.

The list goes on and on. The two parties fail to address a particular issue; a third party rises up, and it’s supported by tens of millions of Americans, forcing the Republican and Democratic parties to co-opt that issue, or the third party rises and succeeds, which is why the Republican Party jumped from being a third party to being a major party of the United States of America.”

There is a move to organize a third-party debate, in New York City, a day or so after the final McCain-Obama debate on Oct. 15. The CPD could still liven its last debate, and serve the electorate and history, by opening up that debate to all candidates who have at least obtained significant ballot access.

Both Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are on the ballot in close to 45 states, Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party is on the ballot in 30 states, and Constitution Party candidate Chuck Baldwin is on in more than 35 states.

13. marisacat - 11 October 2008

Ob camp reply [fwiw] via Tapper

UPDATE: Obama spox Bill Burton responds to McCain’s statements:

“Senator Obama does not believe that John McCain or his policy criticism is in any way comparable to George Wallace or his segregationist policies. But John Lewis was right to condemn some of the hateful rhetoric that John McCain himself personally rebuked just last night, as well as the baseless and profoundly irresponsible charges from his own running mate that the Democratic nominee for President of the United States ‘pals around with terrorists.’ ”

– jpt

14. marisacat - 11 October 2008


we’re in deep shit and there is a report around that Ob plans to say very very very little between now and election day. hasn’t taken questions from his travelling press for over two weeks. Gives brief one on ones with media [local and national] but very proscribed.

we are so blessed.

15. marisacat - 11 October 2008

sorry you are having problems diane.

Just for myself, and since I only did it as I was locked out of my computer and had no choice but to lose everything on my hard drive, but a thousand bugs went away when I used the “restore” discs that came with the computer.

Quite a few of the bugs had to do with page loading. Just speaking of my recent experience. I sure do nto give computer adivce

16. marisacat - 11 October 2008


we are stuck with a shitty system. I think the only thing we might ever manage, and I sure have been enjoying watching it play out here in CA, is TERM LIMITS.

3 in the House, 2 in the senate and single 6 year term as president.

other wise we are fucked.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

Third-Party Blues By Scott Ritter

The pro-war insanity of the Republican National Convention, rather than reinforcing my support of Barack Obama, raised my concerns about the Democrat. Like many, I have questioned the credentials of this clearly intelligent man. Untested in any real way, save the artificial crucible of American politics, void of any life experience truly worthy of the post of most powerful man in the world, Obama has positioned himself to become the next president of the United States. His message of hope rings just a little too “true,” perhaps just a bit too good to be the genuine article. While I cringe at McCain speaking about the “Russian threat,” I wince when the same words come rushing out of the side of Obama’s mouth, as if he is afraid to chew on the reality of what he is saying. “All Americans are Georgians,” McCain said following the recent spate of fighting in the breakaway Georgian territory of South Ossetia, although in reality most Americans couldn’t point Georgia out on a map, let alone be willing to send their sons and daughters off to fight and die there. But at least McCain himself believes in the importance of keeping the budding democracy in that tiny Caucasian republic viable. Obama’s eyes are alive when he speaks of critical domestic issues but appear glazed and lifeless when he is compelled by circumstance to address matters which may very well propel America and Russia into a new period of Cold War, or worse. America had its “3 a.m. wakeup call” in the first week of August, and Barack Obama was found seriously wanting.

It is not just what he doesn’t know, or can’t meaningfully talk about, that is troublesome to me. It is also what he does talk about, and claims to know. Obama’s acceptance speech boldly challenged McCain’s fitness to command. “You don’t defeat,” he declared, “you don’t defeat a terrorist network that operates in 80 countries by occupying Iraq. You don’t protect Israel and deter Iran just by talking tough in Washington. You can’t truly stand up for Georgia when you’ve strained our oldest alliances. If John McCain wants to follow George Bush with more tough talk and bad strategy, that is his choice, but that is not the change that America needs.” But Obama offered no vision of what he would propose to do. How do you defeat a terrorist network that operates in 80 countries? How do you protect Israel and deter Iran? How do you stand up for Georgia? All Obama could offer was the following: “We are the party of Roosevelt. We are the party of Kennedy. So don’t tell me that Democrats won’t defend this country. Don’t tell me that Democrats won’t keep us safe.”

Obama needs to be careful here. He is no FDR, and he is no JFK. Both of those men were tested in times of war and peace in a way Obama can never lay claim to. What we get from Obama’s sophomoric pronouncement of “leadership” is, sadly, simply more tough talk, with no strategy: “As commander in chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm’s way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home.” This raises the questions of what circumstances a President Obama might deem worthy of the sacrifice of American troops, and to what lengths a President Obama would go to ensure that all other options had been exhausted before committing our nation, and our troops, to war.

The more I listened to Obama, the more I realized that on the major issues of war and peace, there was in fact very little that separated him from the Republicans he opposes. Both have sold out American sovereignty in the name of Israeli security (or more important, Likud-inspired, AIPAC-driven policies falsely sold as being in the best interest of the Israeli people). Both assume Iranian nefarious intent, and point an accusatory finger at “Russian aggression” without reflecting on the cause-and-effect reality of irresponsible American foreign policy (the expansion of NATO, the invasion and occupation of Iraq, withdrawal from the ABM Treaty, and the installation on Polish and Czech soil of a ballistic missile defense shield claimed to be for the Iranian threat, but optimized for missiles launched from within Russia). Even on the issue of the “surge,” McCain’s great weakness, Obama has flipped, stating that the “surge” in Iraq has succeeded “beyond our wildest dreams.” The senator from Arizona could not have said it better himself. Doesn’t Obama realize that if he embraces the “surge,” he legitimizes the war in Iraq and as such positions McCain as the candidate of choice, since certainly America would want to go with the architect of the “surge,” and not some untested “Johnny come lately” who simply hangs on the coattails of another’s success? When Obama sells himself as the candidate of change, what change is he talking about?

18. diane - 11 October 2008

qualifying my last comment…it certainly wasn’t an endorsement of any political candidate,..though if I do vote….it won’t be for Palin and Mc Cain…

Listening to sweetie pie…Luther Vandross…so love that bean……………..take a listen Obama…whatever…it’s actually up to all of us…Obama may well be a bot………………………..who the fuck knows?

19. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

A local event announcement that cracked me up (especially since it comes from the same NYS county that screwed up the absentee ballots):

Fall Festival and Election 2008 Corn Maze

When: Today
Sunday, October 12 – Thursday, October 16
Friday, October 17, Saturday, October 18
Sunday, October 19 – Thursday, October 23
Friday, October 24, Saturday, October 25, 10 a.m. -10 p.m. , 10 a.m. -10 p.m.

Where: Liberty Ridge Farm

Cost: Maze, barnyard and trolley ride: $9; children 3 and younger, free. Haunted nights: $15

Contact: http://www.libertyridgefarmmaze.com

A 12-acre labyrinth of pathways through the Republian Elephant, the Democrat Donkey and Troy’s own Uncle Same. There’s also trolley rides, pig races, children’s activities, pedal carts and more. Friday and Saturday nights in October feature a spooky corn maze, Forest of Fear and the Haunted Fence Maze and Freaky Barnyard Adventures.

Yep, that about covers it!


As it happens, the farm website reveals that Obama is winning the “vote with your feet” (through the maze) poll.

diane – bay’s comment #69 is the last one in Marisa’s “In the red” post, not the “Red Winter” one. Maybe ya just clicked the wrong red one?

20. marisacat - 11 October 2008

ugh this is day 5 that I am under the assault of the Blue Angels. Every year, clockwork, this week in October, we get the BA. And they fly directly, on a path, criss crossing, over my house.

I was in teh kitchen earlier, and heard them swooping in from the south, behind me, realising I was at the big window in the kitchen and could look straight up at the sky and, whammo, 5 of them barreled over me, heading for the bay.

I think tomorrow is the last day. Twice over teh years the display has been canceled, always when we were in recession. This year did not count, apparently.

So blessed and bombed we are.

21. diane - 11 October 2008


My point being Marisa, it appears quite deliberate, these communication problems on the internet…it has nothing to do with lack of software expertise…we have been inured to the fact that it is now “normal” that we are cut off before the punchline…even when a person’s, a street’s, a neighborhood’s, a county’s, a state’s, a country’s……..et al, lives could be at stake…just like we’ve been inured via the traditional “media venues”…We all hate each other? yet we proclaim concern for “neighbors” whose neighborhoods it would take most of us a lifetime to walk to on foot or make that crude boat and miraculously cross the water to.

One day that plug will likely be pulled…we’ll really be forced to deal with our closest neighbors,….once again,….sigh…………………………

22. marisacat - 11 October 2008


Freaky Barnyard Adventures? what a hoot!


Here, from the Wikipedia on the Blue Angels… more hoots. This is what is flying over me today………………… i feel so special.

The “Blues” FA-18 aircraft are former fleet aircraft that are nearly combat-ready. They can be repainted and readied for combat service in just 72 hours.[2] Significant modifications to each aircraft include removal of the aircraft gun and replacement with the tank that contains the paraffin-based smoked oil used in demonstrations, installation of inverted fuel pumps to increase the time aircraft can spend inverted without fuel starvation, and outfitting with the control stick spring system that is used to facilitate more precise aircraft control inputs. The standard demonstration configuration is such that the pilot must overcome 40 pounds of nose-down stick input to maintain level flight. The Blue Angels do not wear G-suits, because the air bladders inside them would repeatedly deflate and inflate. That would interfere with the control stick between a pilot’s legs. Instead, Blue Angel pilots tense their stomach muscles and legs to prevent blood from rushing from their heads and rendering them unconscious

23. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

More on the Troy, NY, meatpacker (yep, really) who became the personification of Uncle Sam, for the curious: Sam Wilson.

24. diane - 11 October 2008


Oh shit, you’re right Intermittent Bystander, thanks! Sorry for the confusion! Perhaps my last comment looks asinine in that light…but I still stick to it….

25. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

I liked the pig races, Forest of Fear, and Haunted Fence (for uncommittted voters?) items, too.

Sympathies regarding the military fly zone! Bone-rattling din, I’m sure.

26. diane - 11 October 2008

too fuckin close to Moffet Field Hon…must talk to those fricken neighbors!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t ya jus feel so free?

27. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

24 – No prob!

My own computer slows to a kludgy crawl after awhile, if I’ve been clicky-clicking all over the place too long. Normally have to “clear private data” and shut down Firefox every so often, so as not to freeze entirely on sites with lots of flashing widgets.

28. marisacat - 11 October 2008

I had been freezing quite a bit… and getting notices about “slow script”…but with the total wipe out of my hard drive and the new install, LOL all gone.

And it served to get me to open bills again and pay by check and stamp. About a year ago I had trouble logging into BofA for online banking (turned out it ws fully their fault, that day they mandated new format for passwords but with no notice to users) several hours later and several BofA staff later I was actually, finally, helped. And I was a limp noodle on the kitchen floor. What a work out to be told that I need a new password, mixed letters and numerals.

I can’t imagine going thru that again. LOL

29. diane - 11 October 2008


My computer has slowed to sometimes 24 Kbps on a %52 Kbp proclaimed dialup capability, since the bailout;..despite the fact I generally clear my cache sometimes numerous times in one internet session, rarely allowing any type of scripting (videos etc.) cookies etc.
plus I’m getting constant pingbacks since the bailout (have a device where I can hear the phone ring and answer it while on dialup, and therfore, my phone rings when ther’s a pingback).

I’m thinkin ATT (not my ISP) has some interest in fucking with landlines, I’ve never had the problems I’ve had recently….and generally speaking…I’ve had hardly any technical problems (not at all sayin my ISP isn’t hooked up with the NSA) with my ISP for the 7 years I’ve been a customer…..no failed emails…spam – I could count on one hand…..

30. diane - 11 October 2008

30 (currently)

% mark not intended on “%52 Kbp”

31. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

Well, most of my problems stem from being on Bill Gates’ shitlist (through no fault of my own). When the computer was new, it had one licensed Windows operating version on it, but it was subsequently linked into a network at a different office, and the IT dude overwrote the original OS with another Windows product to make it play nice with others. When I left that job, the PC was part of my oh-so-golden parachute, but as a stand-alone machine again, the thing couldn’t get the proper updates from Windows for either the networked or the original product, including a major package upon which all things Windows supposedly now depend. Monumental pain in the ass every time I attempt to resolve it, and it’s all because I don’t have the proper authentification code to install all the crap that Windows forced/allowed me, initially, to download. For my own security.

Don’t wanna wipe everything out to reinstall the original program from disks (not sure that Windows program is even still supported), so I just trundle along with the occasional hiccups until I can get into a new machine altogether.

Agree that all such machinations are exhausting and tedious beyond words! Just talking about it makes me want to go for a nap.

32. diane - 11 October 2008

jeez the second comment of the above doublemint twins is the better..if anyne could be bothered…..ahhhh fuck………….

33. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

NY Daily News: Gov. Palin booed in Philly.

If you’re wondering, they booed.

Gov. Sarah Palin, Republican vice presidential candidate and hockey mom to the masses, dropped the puck on the Philadelphia Flyers’ season just minutes ago, with Scott Gomez taking the ceremonial draw with Flyer captain Mike Richards. (Palin even moved in on Gomez for a peck on the cheek. That was awkward.) A sign on the scoreboard read: “Flyers fans, show the class of Philadelphia and welcome America’s #1 hockey mom … Sarah Palin!”

Class of Philadelphia, you say? Palin’s entrance was greeted with a burst of boos – a Philly favorite – though there certainly was a sizable contingent of clappers among the orange-clad in the stands.

34. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008
35. marisacat - 11 October 2008

well the headline on the online FP of the NYT says that R just hope that McC can stay stable to the end.

I have been around too long to buy that the ”R are washed up” (any more that is than the other party, both are in deep trouble, wins and losses not withstanding) and ”the conservatives are finished”. LOL.

What a set up for the mid terms. What a set up for ’12. Thieves will run as populists, one of their old plays. Further they will roast, filet and bar b q “liberals” for what ever Ob has done/not done in office. he ought to consider dumping that frozen in place look I saw in his eyes in his last Gibson interview. It bothered me, and I have written him off.

They can run that populist play with their eyes shut.

16 years ago, even that late, I would have worried, so wished for other outcomes. 8 years ago I voted for Gore, because I “wanted to stop Bush” I laugh at myself now. it really really does not matter. Just my opinion.

36. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

I see the Sunday mag is a food issue, with an exploding corncob on the cover.

International food prices spiked almost 40 percent last year, indicating that the monetary price is finally catching up with the true costs of cheap food: obesity in the U.S., malnutrition in developing countries and environmental degradation everywhere. This issue is devoted to these problems and some possible solutions, many of them sprinkled throughout the essays and reports.

37. marisacat - 11 October 2008

well a lot of obesity in the US is CORN SYRUP. Karo syrup… A total sop to certain states and certain industries and to certain wealthy families.

when they put a warning on cigarettes 30 years ago or when ever I said they should put one on the side of a McDonald’s salt and grease laden burger.

They ought to reinstate phys ed in schools, for one.

Instead they USE it, being fat, to blame people and make it seem they are a big drag on medical care. And somehow undeserving of medical care. A lot of this comes from the Cato Insti.

what bullshit.

38. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

The high-fructose stuff is in just about everything.

Don’t schools still have phys ed?

Might be nice if it actually included some ed, as well as running around (with or without peer humiliations) in the gyms . . . cover some basics on organ systems of the body, as well as nutrition, once a week or whatever.

But I think they should teach all sorts of life skills they don’t, from basic civil rights and consumer protections (what’s a contract, what’s a mortgage) to first aid and swimming.

39. diane - 11 October 2008

Speakin about your neighbor’s Marisa…..jeez….ya just can’t make this stuff up……Ed Jew

40. marisacat - 11 October 2008

No, some school districts and some schools, don’t have any physical education classes. This is for small children, even.

41. marisacat - 11 October 2008


oh yeah ed jew.. a special special case.

He won’t be going to CHinatown Heaven when he dies… the only possible back story to all of that is that he HAD to have pissed off powers that be in Chinatown, big time.

42. diane - 11 October 2008

what an edjewcation this earth imparts………….what the frick is it all for….cue IB with a bunny pic…………………

43. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

40 – Live and learn. I thought there were national requirements for P.E., but a little googling indicates otherwise, despite tons of studies advocating for more.

44. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008
45. diane - 11 October 2008

oh jeez, I need to qualify my comment because, most certainly, the internet loses everything in the transalation (consequently, I don’t quite blame anyone for any initial hurt, but please check the link above) Ed Jew, is Chinese/American………….

46. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

No child left out of the dodgeball game? (CNN, 2006)

(CNN) — As more of America’s school-age children are growing fatter, the physical education curriculum that might help them win the fight is gasping for air, says a recently released report.

The 2006 Shape of the Nation — jointly conducted by the American Heart Association and the National Association for Sport and Physical Education, a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting high quality physical education — concluded that most states are failing to provide students with adequate physical education requirements.

The percentage of students who attend a daily physical education class has dropped from 42 percent in 1991 to 28 percent in 2003, the report says.

The report’s findings are compelling in the context of the rise in obesity rates.

The number of kids considered overweight has more than tripled since 1980, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Among those between ages 6 to 19, over 9 million kids — 16 percent — are considered overweight.

::snip snip::

Modern life has also made Americans more sedentary. “Technology has created many time and labor saving products. Some examples include cars, elevators, computers, dishwashers, and televisions. Cars are used to run short distance errands instead of people walking or riding a bicycle,” the CDC says.

Meanwhile, some 41 million American kids participate in organized, extracurricular youth sports like soccer, baseball, and football, which can balance the reported drop in physical activity at school. But, proponents of increased physical activity contend that not every child is able to take part in the sometimes-expensive organized play, making physical education in schools essential.

“With the obesity rates going up and it’s in our face, why are we cutting P.E. time? I don’t get it,” says Garrett Lydic, a physical education teacher at North Laurel Elementary School in Laurel, Delaware and his state’s Teacher of the Year in 2006.

“The focus right now is on testing,” he said, referring to a series of academic tests now mandated by federal law. “The result is that there’s less time to get kids more active.”

::snip snip::

“We acknowledge that while the goals of these educational initiatives — NCLB included — are good, our position is that this is not an either/or situation. We should expect both from our schools: physical activity and high academic achievement,” says Russell Pate, a professor of exercise science at the University of South Carolina. He is also a co-author of an American Heart Association scientific statement entitled “Promoting Physical Activity in Children and Youth.”

“We really feel that a national problem is that P.E. and health education are not included in core curriculum in schools,” he says. “I think it is obvious schools are going to understandably pay the most attention to areas where they are evaluated. If we continue to leave P.E. off the accountability records, it will be hard to get schools to incorporate it.”

Nearly a third of the states do not mandate physical education for elementary and middle school students, and 12 states allow students to earn required physical education credits through online physical education courses, according to the NASPE report.

While most states require some sort of physical education, a majority of them do not have specific curriculum requirements, leaving crucial decisions like the amount of time spent in P.E. classes, student assessment or class size up to local school districts, individual schools or even teachers, the report said.

Damn, it sure was required when I was in school. Had to do all those Kennedy mandated chin-ups, 600 yard “dashes”, and the rest.

And online gym classes??! Who knew?

47. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

Gym classes in the mod locker!

48. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

Nice that the parking lot owner draws the line at baseball bats, eh? Whattaguy.

49. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008
50. diane - 11 October 2008

49 (currently)

Hugs for the bunny pic and story honey…..

My little bunny, no longer here, was named bunny…a male with the scruffy skin by the brow,…apparently the males have wrinkly brows …because the females rip the hair from between their brows to make a nest when the male didn’t withdraw soon enough..serves the fockers right….ha…ha …life’s small fuckin pleasures…..

jeez, I miss your old tag…I hate frickin acronyms, but Intermittent Bystander is something one actualy has to concentrate on while spelling ( as you know cutie!), and even then, if their leyboard (or keyboard) skills are funky..they still may fuck up……………..


51. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

BTW – phys ed report snippets above are only a fraction of CNN story – lots more at the link.

52. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

And it looks like the first bunny story did a generic switcheroo on the pic! Here’s the actual hero Rabbit at the Brisbane Times.

53. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

48 – a man has to have an ethical framework, I guess.

54. marisacat - 11 October 2008


a clsoe friend fo mine has a bunny, a lop ear, Buddie is her name. Very very sweet bunny but I wear old clothes when I visit and take old night clothes too when I go for the weekend (they are in Marin and we go to the wine co sometimes) as Buddie nestle beside you but will be quietly silently munching on your threads… but they have mostly rented for years and the replacement costs for carpeting is pretty daunting…

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

Israeli Jews, Arabs clash in fourth straight night

ACRE, Israel (Reuters) – Rioters clashed for a fourth straight night on Saturday in northern Israel, police said, raising tensions in a city once a rare bastion of peaceful relations between Arabs and Jews.

Police fired water cannons to disperse stone-throwing rioters in Acre, a former Crusader stronghold, arresting 32 from both sides on a day when three Arab homes were also torched and damaged, Micky Rosenfeld, a police spokesman said.

Israeli media said that three people were also hurt in the clashes on Saturday night, despite reinforced police guard that barricaded a section of the city after nightfall to contain stone-throwing clashes protests, closing it to traffic.

Trouble started in Acre after dark on Wednesday at the start of the Yom Kippur, the holiest day for Jews, when youths attacked an Arab man who drove into a mostly Jewish district to a relative’s home, disturbing the start of 24 hours during which many Jews fast and abstain from driving.

As word spread from mosque loudspeakers of Jewish youths stoning the car, Arab crowds responded angrily, causing widespread damage to cars and shops in a main city street.

56. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

50 (currently) – Well, I always liked the graze component of the old moniker, but that other sanctimonious blowhard called musing eventually killed off the thrill of the combo for me.

As far as acronyms go, I’m actually pretty happy with IB!

(Throws hands in the air, smiles sheepishly. I come from a pun-enthused family.)

BTW – Second bunny link appears to have the actual fire story details a lot more accurately, too.

57. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

55 – LOL! Bad as a goat, but less conspicuous!

58. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

Maude pawed . . . gnash gnash wordpress gnash gnash . . .

59. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

Thanks, Marisacat! Hope the Blue Angels (all land safely and) pack it up soon.

G’night, all.

60. Intermittent Bystander - 11 October 2008

55 – I heard about the Yom Kippur confrontation on NPR that night.

So much escalation from such a matter; so many lives lost, for nothing.

61. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

Rhinelander lawyer wants Obama charged for lying

“I was watching (TV) this past Saturday night and saw an ad several times from the Obama campaign accusing John McCain of ruining America’s health care system,” Gold states. “I thought is was a new low for Obama to run an ad playing on the fears of the most vulnerable in our society.

“While in my legal opinion, the law is probably an unconstitutional restriction on free speech, it is on the books as good law unless a judge says otherwise.”

Gold called the Oneida County Sheriff’s office and asked it to file charges. He says he got the idea after hearing news reports that Obama’s campaign was attempting something similar in Missouri.

If convicted, violators of the law can face up to six months in prison and a $1,000 fine.

Gold is licensed to practice law in Naples, Fla., where he regularly represented a citizens group that opposed city projects such as a sewer expansion and a park cleanup.

62. marisacat - 11 October 2008

White House Overhauling Rescue Plan.

No, that is the title. Do they hear themselves. And don’t miss the flag patches worn by the traders, of which company I don’t know, as it does not say. Looks a lot like what the mil wear on their sleeves.


I wish both campaigns could fall upon themselves, one upon the other and let their vampyre teeth sink in.

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

speaking of the “rescue” plan: Retirement House of Cards COLOR

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 October 2008

Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.

Commentators say that’s what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They’ve specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie’s and Freddie’s financial problems.

Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren’t true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height vrom 2004 to 2006.

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

_ More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

_ Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

_ Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics.

The “turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007,” the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets reported Friday.

Conservative critics claim that the Clinton administration pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make home ownership more available to riskier borrowers with little concern for their ability to pay the mortgages.

“I don’t remember a clarion call that said Fannie and Freddie are a disaster. Loaning to minorities and risky folks is a disaster,” said Neil Cavuto of Fox News.

Fannie, the Federal National Mortgage Association, and Freddie, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp., don’t lend money, to minorities or anyone else, however. They purchase loans from the private lenders who actually underwrite the loans.

It’s a process called securitization, and by passing on the loans, banks have more capital on hand so they can lend even more.

This much is true. In an effort to promote affordable home ownership for minorities and rural whites, the Department of Housing and Urban Development set targets for Fannie and Freddie in 1992 to purchase low-income loans for sale into the secondary market that eventually reached this number: 52 percent of loans given to low-to moderate-income families.

To be sure, encouraging lower-income Americans to become homeowners gave unsophisticated borrowers and unscrupulous lenders and mortgage brokers more chances to turn dreams of homeownership in nightmares.

But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small portion of overall lending. And at the height of the housing boom in 2005 and 2006, Republicans and their party’s standard bearer, President Bush, didn’t criticize any sort of lending, frequently boasting that they were presiding over the highest-ever rates of U.S. homeownership.

Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.

65. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008

Those computer problems must be contagious. My laptop died earlier for no apparent reason. After unplugging and plugging it in a few times and trying to get the power button to turn on, it started making noise but I had to make some pumpkin pies so I walked away fro a while – annoyed. My replacement is an old PC with Win98 and I didn’t want to go back to that again. Anyway! Came down after the pies were in the oven and the laptop’s working again. And the pies turned out great. Well, they smell great anyway. Big turkey dinner here tomorrow (which I’m not cooking). Turkey Day on Monday. Yay leftovers.

Upstream: no lipstick on a pig races? 😉

66. marisacat - 11 October 2008

No wonder Sully and others are already blaming black church goers if Prop 8 passes (SSM), Meaning that YES on Prop 8 Wins which would wipe out the SC ruling ….. They would be a contributing factor should ‘Yes on Prop 8’ win, but far and away will be white Catholic and white Mormon money and organisation that wins it.

This is the problem:

Evangelicals are as likely to vote in favor of Prop 8 (64%) as all others are to vote against it (63%). — CA Progress Report, result of Field Poll the second week of September

67. marisacat - 11 October 2008


I nearly crumpled at my station (LOL) when I got blocked a black screen adn that incomprehensible to me “lsass.exe Name Unknown”…

assumed in my dumb state that the computer was dead… I began to worry about where to get one, I am lost without being able to search for things on the computer… I sort of fell apart. Not even sure how I managed to find the booklet, read it and find the restore discs. (Thank god both booklet and discs were on or beside the big TV in here)

I hope the laptop stays perky and cheery and humming along.. 😉

68. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008

66. Well, I’m glad I have a backup, but still, the idea of pulling it out and setting it up and wondering who might fix my laptop and how much that might be etc…yikes…it’s actually a Good Thing™ I had something else to do as a distraction.

69. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008

AND that was after an afternoon of taking 2 buses each way to the thrift store and grocery store. Eventful trip. Drunk guy on the bus who thought the fare was 8 cents; late bus connection and the driver missed a turn to so we had to back up on a side street and go back a couple of blocks. lol

70. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008

64. That’s enlightening. The Repubs on the oversight committee were complaining last week that Freddie and Fannie officials hadn’t been called to testify yet. What’s his name – the man who oversees absolutely everything…Beverly Hills congresscritter…you know the guy..Waxman, that’s it…informed them that a hearing was being arranged. That shut them up.

71. marisacat - 11 October 2008

BTW, this is from the CA Progress Report, from a Pacific Policy Institute California (PPIC) poll second week of September:

Job approval ratings of Senator Dianne Feinstein (48%) and Barbara Boxer (44%) and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (40%) are higher than the overall approval of the Congress. These figures are for all California adults (PPIC did not release figures as to these three elected officials with likely voters).

72. diane - 11 October 2008


ahhh yeah, those long nibblers they have…. many of my books remind me of that rascal bunny…as many of my albums remind me that I’m glad I’m not into the value of the covers cause my sweet, kitty..Fredressa Kreuger…has ripped the shit out of the sides of the album covers……………thankfully I’ve found the perfect rug made out some type of husk..where she now sharpens her weapons to the point of perfection………………

73. diane - 11 October 2008


I can understand that…and cranky as I am, have to add that that’s another thing I despise about the internet….some of the ironic names people choose……the initials eh and a carp relative come to my mind most immediately

Ooh that bunny is pretty….looks like mine, except he was white…………


Fuckin liar’s ..lovely that no one in the media seems to be commenting much on the vultures investing in homes which they never spent one night in…generally the culprits responsible for the abnormal skyrocketing of home values before the collapse. Further, if this society thinks folks shouldn’t invest in homes they can barely afford…maybe it ought to treat those people who have full time plus jobs, who can’t afford a home like the human beings who are doing their fucking hard labor for them, instead of dirt because they don’t own homes.



It’s that frikken blue screen that really lets you know you’re in trouble…

74. diane - 11 October 2008


Hmmm they must be polling some vewy special golden showers state folk…………………specially re di and nan…I’ll never forget my stats teacher saying that one could “prove” pretty much anything they wanted to (paraphrasing)…then again…..perhaps all that sun out there in Cali does something to trick people into thinking things are just peachy…..

75. marisacat - 11 October 2008


when my friend first got her bunny… she was under a bed, so I got down and peeked under the bed and she bared her front teeth. I said to my friend, Beatrix Potter just died.


76. marisacat - 11 October 2008


hmm no I think that is about right. It is general population adult polling not Registered Voter nor Likely Voter. If yo notice, they did not release those numbers.

DiFi works hard to keep her hands publicly clean, esp for people not very interested… Boxer went in with higher vote numbers than Diane ever got, on BB’s alst go. (think it was 04 can’t remember)

SF will not be giving up having the Speaker… I would just like Sheehan to break 10, 11 % get more than that. Just to send a chill.

77. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008

I thought Pelosi had a lower approval rating than Bush. (She should have.)

78. marisacat - 11 October 2008

Congress runs lower than the president.

79. diane - 11 October 2008

yeah those bunny teefies are something,

uggh, depressing (oh, and please, thinking of name associations, di spells hers with two n’s ….cause she’s precious).

I would just like Sheehan to break 10, 11 % get more than that. Just to send a chill

Who knows, given the times, maybe she will…

80. liberalcatnip - 11 October 2008
81. marisacat - 12 October 2008

Israel delaying their opening of trading today.

82. marisacat - 12 October 2008

gnu thred


……………… 8) …………….

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