The “last hope debate”… can anyone bear to watch? 15 October 2008
Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.trackback
Reflection
Passing through an Amtrak station on his way to an interview in Greensboro, North Carolina, Barack Obama catches a glimpse of himself in a mirror. [Callie Shell / Aurora for TIME]
Well.. the NYT calls it the “last, best hope for John McCain to reverse the tide…”
Hoefstra – Long Island – 9 PM –
This gave me a laugh tho:
NBC/WSJ pollster Peter Hart (D) passes along this finding from a recent poll he conducted: 37% of McCain voters say they detest Obama and would have a hard time accepting him as president, while a similar number of Obama voters (36%) say the same thing of McCain.
DNA! DNA! We need some DNA!
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Mike Davis has a new piece out…
[I]n addition, both Obama and his vice presidential partner Joe Biden, in their support for Secretary of the Treasury Paulson’s plan, avoid any discussion of the inevitable result of cataclysmic restructuring and government bailouts: not “socialism,” but ultra-capitalism — one that is likely to concentrate control of credit in a few leviathan banks, controlled in large part by sovereign wealth funds but subsidized by generations of public debt and domestic austerity.
Never have so many ordinary Americans been nailed to a cross of gold (or derivatives), yet Obama is the most mild-mannered William Jennings Bryan imaginable. Unlike Sarah Palin who masticates the phrase “the working class” with defiant glee, he hews to a party line that acknowledges only the needs of an amorphous “middle class” living on a largely mythical “Main Street.”
If we are especially concerned about the fate of the poor or unemployed, we are left to read between the lines, with no help from his talking points that espouse clean coal technology, nuclear power, and a bigger military, but elide the urgency of a renewed war on poverty as championed by John Edwards in his tragically self-destructed primary campaign [oh please, there was no inherent ”tragedy” as he meant none of it, his run was to eclipse any poverty message from Kucinich — Mcat]. But perhaps inside the cautious candidate is a man whose humane passions transcend his own nearsighted centrist campaign. As a close friend, exasperated by my chronic pessimism, chided me the other day, “don’t be so unfair. FDR didn’t have a nuts and bolts program either in 1933. Nobody did.”
What Franklin D. Roosevelt did possess in that year of breadlines and bank failures, according to my friend, was enormous empathy for the common people and a willingness to experiment with government intervention, even in the face of the monolithic hostility of the wealthy classes. In this view, Obama is MoveOn.org’s re-imagining of our 32nd president: calm, strong, deeply in touch with ordinary needs, and willing to accept the advice of the country’s best and brightest. ::snip::
I caught an NBC (GE! GE! USA! USA!) interview with Paulson, in which he unblinkingly stated that the American people were buying shares “that will be very valuable”.
Yeah? Who says? You?
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This from Madman from the last thread fits in here…
America’s Political Cannibalism By Chris Hedges
It is no longer our economy but our democracy that is in peril. It was the economic meltdown of Yugoslavia that gave us Slobodan Milosevic. It was the collapse of the Weimar Republic that vomited up Adolf Hitler. And it was the breakdown in czarist Russia that opened the door for Vladimir Lenin and the Bolsheviks. Financial collapses lead to political extremism. The rage bubbling up from our impoverished and disenfranchised working class, glimpsed at John McCain rallies, presages a looming and dangerous right-wing backlash.
As the public begins to grasp the depth of the betrayal and abuse by our ruling class, as the Democratic and Republican parties are exposed as craven tools of our corporate state, as savings accounts, college funds and retirement plans become worthless, as unemployment skyrockets and as home values go up in smoke, we must prepare for the political resurgence of a reinvigorated radical Christian right. The engine of this mass movement—as is true for all radical movements—is personal and economic despair. And despair, in an age of increasing shortages, poverty and hopelessness, will be one of our few surplus commodities.
Karl Polanyi in his book “The Great Transformation,” written in 1944, laid out the devastating consequences—the depressions, wars and totalitarianism—that grow out of a so-called self-regulated free market. He grasped that “fascism, like socialism, was rooted in a market society that refused to function.” He warned that a financial system always devolved, without heavy government control, into a Mafia capitalism—and a Mafia political system—which is a good description of the American government under George W. Bush. Polanyi wrote that a self-regulating market, the kind bequeathed to us since Ronald Reagan, turned human beings and the natural environment into commodities, a situation that ensures the destruction of both society and the natural environment. He decried the free market’s belief that nature and human beings are objects whose worth is determined by the market. He reminded us that a society that no longer recognizes that nature and human life have a sacred dimension, an intrinsic worth beyond monetary value, ultimately commits collective suicide. Such societies cannibalize themselves until they die. Speculative excesses and growing inequality, he wrote, always destroy the foundation for a continued prosperity.
No debate for me tonight … I’m going to go see David Byrne tonight.
The Davis piece is really good. As for the “despising” thing … I despise both of them.
I expect it to be pretty bad… but will leave it on…
hmm I noticed last night that when I was at RGE Monitor, the Roubini site, that he had a FP link to his predictive Feb paper… I don’t see it now. Will take a google and see if I land on it….
From MitM in the last thread:
Freehands, gloves for cold weather gadget twiddling
We already have gloves like that up here. They’ve been on the market a long time. I have a pair here somewhere but not for gadget twiddling. 😉
Nouriel Roubini, 12 steps to Financial Disaster.. Feb 5, 2008
[cached version, as otherwise behind a sub wall]
Martin Wolf of The Financial Times commented on it at the time.
**
The graf on the FP of the NYT, on the fall of the Holy Market today, must have some edging for the windows.
– 735
Oh what a scream! a headline under the little death graph says:
Bernanke says Bailout needs time to work.
Nooz
7 – translation, we need a little more time for our friends to move their wealth before we can’t prop it up anymore.
Well I laughed out loud at the “news”,it did not hit me right off that it portends poorly for THe Old Erratic Guy:
RNC drops McCain ads in Wisconsin
5 Pieces of Advice for the New Paupers
Byron York “debates” (cough) Matt Taibbi:
LOL … “I’m going to take my preconceptions and go home!”
oh god is that true, that section on “car”…
I occasionally catch a local call in with a pretty good guy atty, who practices up in Sonoma. General advice for a variety of legal problems.. I had to stop listening… over and over and over and over ti is people who get caught in the snare of fees and collection of monies [often related to cars] that are replacements for equitable taxes… overwhelming costs for poor people. Hard for the middle class that are overstretched and no prob for the rich.
A real problem.
13 – This country is brutal in all of the little ways it keeps a thumb on people barely treading water.
I wish I had taken the advice in the piece about anti-depressants when I fell through the cracks a few years ago. It was like falling into wet sand with layers of gauze being tied around my head. By the time I finally swallowed my pride and moved in w/ family I was barely functioning.
I thought it was a pretty good piece.
Gifted Youngster Sells Cookies To Buy Attack Ad
A Wis. Call for GOP Poll Watchers Draws National Notice
Nope, NOT looking for “intimidating people”, just people who aren’t scared of black people … or something.
Obama: At least as radical as a Puritan
Oh, those wonderful donks, so unwilling to actually stop executive criminality, end brutal expansionist wars or restore civil liberties. Why? Because they’re too busy expanding police powers to benefit MORE corporations.
Did PBS Bury an Exposé on Torture?
From the Daily Beast / PBS link
20 – Pretty appalling, ain’t it?
Good germans … until it’s safe.
YouTube to McCain: You Made Your DMCA Bed, Lie in It
argh.. from the SMBIVA link in comment 18
SHOVE THEM ALL OFF THE CLIFF, food for the forest animals below
the former find their style rather cramped by the extravagant excesses of IP enforcement demanded by the latter.
Which ties in nicely to the You Tube/McCain link.
Hip-hop Colin Powell.
The audience has agreed to be quiet – except when they shout out “terrorist!” and “kill him!”.
Let me say Bob, thank you. Ayers! Ayers! Ayers!
McSurge looks ghostly.
I think McC’s voice is off…. makes me wonder if the Cockburn report is right about his having recent radiation…
Who will be the first to stab the other in the eye with those trusty pens they’re holding?
Screw Joe the Plumber. No tax breaks for plumbers until they straighten out the butt crack epidemic.
NBC at least is using a split screen, their faces side by side. Should have been that way for all debates, IMO…
fwiw..ntim, LOL
I’m watching CNN for the ECG on the bottom of the screen. It’s strangely addictive.
“profligate”? Who the hell uses that word?
nahhhhhh
i can’t bear to watch. im trying to figure out where im going to get the coin to pay joe the friggin plumber.
Ethanol is in the defence budget?
I see Feisty McSurge has shown up tonite – and he’s done his homework.
bay is htat a joke 🙂 or does your house need a plumber? Just asking… and how are you doing in the long aftermath?
yes old feisty erratic guy is on hand…………………….
I’m waiting for Johnny to break into “You Don’t Send Me Flowers”.
plumbing bills aren’t funny. that laughable cliche joe the “poor” plumber is. but im fine, thanks for askin!
“Vietnam”. Drink!!
McCain: I heart Teh Stoopid.
“Ayers”. Drink!!
“ACORN”. Drink!!
Waiting for Rezko for bingo.
Wait a minute…didn’t Ayers hold a fundraiser for Obamalama?
“Scranton”. Drink!
oh the problem around here is you can hardly get a plumber for a smallish job. They like remodels (tho that may be slowing down). Fortunately we have a neighborhood handy man, plumbing, electrician, painter. All in one…
Thank god.
sarah palin is a roll model for the mooseburger basket.
Palin understands the autism problems better than anyone he knows? What?
I think catnip was mentioned…
That’s not true. I believe our Conservative government said “Fuck you”.
I am surprised that McC has not used the snippet of Ob on tape [think it was an editorial board interview] laughing at what one says in campaigns, and referring to NAFTA – in an ad I mean…
“Hoover”. Bingo!!
senator government wants joe to obama
McJohnny is actually doing fairly well in this debate. (kooky creature that he is)
He’s flatlining on the health care discussion though.
“Senator Government”? lol That was a good Freudian Slip.
53. lol
I have a vision of the media simultaneously converging on the home and public records of Joe the Rich Plumber as we speak.
Good luck Joe!
I think McCain just lost the fundy base. Run, duck and cover. The fur’s bound to be flying any time now.
56. No doubt CNN’s Rick Sanchez is knocking on his door as we speak.
41 – Yeah, the poor plumber cliche is about what, 50 years out of date? LOL, say the masses!
so can we get a religious adviser with the government health care insurance?
im fresh out.
28 – Gaspar, the Peevish, Befuddled, and Inappropriately Twinkly Doddering Ghost!
common ground on abortion……………………. sigh
i doubt seriously if joe can get a loan right now, much less get any NEW CONSTRUCTION work.
a future tax increase is actually a blessing. it implies one has income.
joe’s just fucked.
but hey at least he’s gotta job.
this week.
oh yeah john you friggin idiot, the “extreme” position concerns itself with the woman’s health.
who the hell cares about that?
Ah well it sounded too good there for a while, didn’t it? Welcome back to Tragedyfuckingland, ladies. Consult your pastor.
“primacy as a military power” — Obrama… we gotta maintain it!
Thosseee scharrrrry extreeeemishts want Joe the Rich Plumber to caarre about women’s “health.” Imagine!
pray to your pastor, forget Jesus, it’s the pastors that matter.
Just abolish the federal dept of education. Easy.
vouchers!
way out in right field
vouchers vouchers vouchers!
vouchers, baptists and catholics!!!! mooses and squirrels!
66. “primacy as a military power”
That was a really strange seque from a question about education.
Oh – I get it now. He said something about a strong economy linked to military supremacy. Ergo, you need edumacated peeples. That is SO not how I think or link things together.
So what did the thermal monitoring of the certified “uncommitted” cabbagesfeatured in the scroll on CNN think, catnip?
(Pity about your new government, BTW.)
Gawd, the first CNN spinner is appalling. Outa there.
Ha, number 2 pundit was funny though . . . “He looked like Grumpy McNasty up there!”
Nope. Can’t do the pundits on any channel.
Thanks for the laughs, all.
I think the vote from CNN’s panel was 13 for Obama and 9 for McCain. 1 abstained. They didn’t like Joe the plumber stories.
Hillary’s coming up on CNN.
Really, might as well let weasels rip your flesh.
(Pity about your new government, BTW.)
Thanks – and I missed the season premiere of Eli Stone for that. Bummer.
77 – Thanks. (Katie Couric was interviewing the not-so-organic idiot farm on CBS.)
I mean, don’t these assholes realize they’re competing with the Project Runway finale on Bravo?
80 – Haha!
Good for Clinton, for showing up with Wolfie – ptooey – tonight.
Wolfie and Tweety have got a lot in common – totally over-the-top demented juvenile amoral shameless political celebrity dweebitude, for example.
Post-debate CNN poll –
Sample:
40 dem
30 gop
Rest independent
Obama wins by 58 to 31
Obama fav 66% Unfave 35 to 33
McCain unfav from 45 to 49%
CNN reporting other networks showing even broader margins for Obama.
OOps, mean O fav increased to 66 and unfav decreased from 35 to 33.
(Do debate-watcher unfav percentages get lower than that?)
MCain unfav increased instead.
Local news reports Cheney underwent cardioversion – a type of electic shock – to keep the ticker ticking tonight.
Big LOL at number 9 upthread.
neue thread……………..
LINK
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