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Thread… ;) 4 November 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


Blossoming trees in Tunuli Park, South Korea.  Mid-July of 2004

From Madman from the end of the last thread:

Off topic, but some possibly good news:

Over the objections of television broadcasters and other groups, federal regulators set aside a disputed slice of radio spectrum for public use on Tuesday, hoping it would lead to low-cost, high-speed Internet access and new wireless devices.

The Federal Communications Commission voted 5 to 0 to approve the new use for the unlicensed frequencies, known as white spaces.

A coalition of powerful groups, including broadcasters, Broadway theater producers and sports franchises, hoped to derail or delay the decision. They have argued that their own transmissions — whether from television signals or from wireless microphones used in live music performances — could face interference from new devices that use the white spaces.

But F.C.C. commissioners said in a public meeting on Tuesday that they were confident that enough testing had been done to assure them that interference was not a major risk.

“It’s fair to say few other engineering analyses at the F.C.C. have been as lengthy and open,” said Michael J. Copps, a commissioner.

Echoing the views of other commissioners, he added that the measure could lead to development of a new generation of devices that use the spectrum to provide Internet access.

Commissioners said such access could be more reliable than Wi-Fi, which also uses unlicensed frequencies but does not reach as far.

That view has been heralded by technology companies, like Google, Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft, which will benefit from the spread of Internet access.

“Some have called this Wi-Fi on steroids,” Mr. Copps said. “I hope they’re correct.”



1. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

fuck: Prop. 8 to ban same-sex marriage leading

(11-04) 20:39 PST SAN FRANCISCO — After a heated, divisive campaign, fueled by a record $73 million of spending, California voters Tuesday were backing Prop. 8, which would change the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriage.

With 11 percent of the vote counted, the measure held a 55 percent to 45 percent lead.

2. marisacat - 4 November 2008

Proposition 8-Same Sex Marriage Ban

All Precincts Totals
Choice Votes %
Yes 1,872,420 54.5%
No 1,562,770 45.5%

14% in

3. liberalcatnip - 4 November 2008

Is America fixed yet?

4. marisacat - 4 November 2008

I have been trying to figure out what it means for Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon. DM died a few days after they were married.

Just so mean.

Nobody seems to have an answer, some say the marriages will stand others not. If it loses (meaing Yes on 8 wins) it will be taken to court.

5. liberalcatnip - 4 November 2008

Maddow was “delighted” to hear him say “we will defeat you”?


6. marisacat - 4 November 2008


A sobbing woman at Grant Park said in three months.

7. liberalcatnip - 4 November 2008

6. three months.

K. I’ll mark my calendar. Thx.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

5 – I cringed at that, too.

9. marisacat - 4 November 2008

They say notification, Prop 4, ismoving back and forth all evening…

Proposition 4-Minor Abortion
All Precincts Totals
Choice Votes %
Yes 1,667,691 49.0%
No 1,733,197 51.0%


Also, 8 is The Most expensive social ballot measure in teh hsitory of the country. Last I heard 80 million.

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

So, four Senate seats undecided yet: GA, MN, OR, and AK. No returns on AK, Chambliss looks pretty comfortably ahead, but the Atlanta Journal Constitution isn’t calling it yet, so I’m guessing donk-leaning precincts aren’t reporting their yet. Franken is very slightly behind, and Merkley is just barely ahead of Smith. If they actually do pull out two of those four they’ll actually have 60 (w/ Sanders and Liebermann).

Of course, that means they have to keep Liebermann in his committee chairs. That fucker is like Michael Myers …

11. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

Journal Constitution:

Georgia – U.S. SenateCandidate Votes
Saxby Chambliss – R Incumbent 1,531,962 52%
Jim Martin – D 1,295,278 44%
Allen Buckley – L 104,571 4%

Updated Nov-05-2008 12:35 AM
94% reporting (3128 of 3303 precincts)

12. marisacat - 4 November 2008

Over and over the past few days I heard or read that the great culture wars are over. Oh yeah?

From the schnauzers at The Corner

Florida Affirms Marriage [Maggie Gallagher]

With 84 percent of the vote in, Florida is voting for marriage 62 percent to 38 percent.

13. marisacat - 4 November 2008


they never had the strength to send Lieberman to the woodshed or the men’s room or even the cloakroom.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

I expected that in FL (should be “Florida affirms bigotry”) , but I am holding out hope for CA.

15. marisacat - 4 November 2008

Just noticed this at NYT… apparently Dems are poised to take the NY congress (senate, assembly?)

Democrats Take State Senate

By Nicholas Confessore AND Danny Hakim

Updated, 12:30 a.m., Nov. 5 |

Boosted by a surge of new voters, Democrats appeared won a majority in the New York State Senate on Tuesday night, putting the party in control of both houses of the Legislature and the governor’s office for the first time since the New Deal.

Democrats turned out in historic numbers from Buffalo to Long Island, overcoming a vaunted Republican political machine and defeated two Republican senators — Caesar Trunzo, of Long Island, and Serphin R. Maltese, of Queens — whose combined years in office spanned more than a half a century.

But the elation felt by party leaders on Tuesday night was tempered by lingering questions about the allegiance of four Democratic senators from New York City, who have so far refused to commit to supporting a Democrat for the majority leader’s post, currently held by Senator Dean G. Skelos, the Nassau County Republican./snip/

16. liberalcatnip - 4 November 2008

I don’t understand why some pundits don’t get the irony. MSNBC had John what’s his name going on and on about how touched he was…Lewis…that a black man had won and now they’re all agreeing that Obama won over a lot of voters because he didn’t base his campaign on race. The head explodes.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

RCP again, more House seats flip:

· House ·
Democrats 237 (+16) Republicans 148 (-16)

GA-8 NH-1 AL-5
KY-3 PA-10 IN-2

VA-11 AZ-1 CO-4
CT-4 FL-24 FL-8
IL-11 NM-1 NM-2
NY-13 NY-25 NC-8

18. marisacat - 4 November 2008

Text of his speech “as prepared”… tomorrow I will get the actual transcript from CNN or one of them… 😉


Yes on 8 people are gloating, big time.

19. marisacat - 4 November 2008

Well the Castro is partying… retribution for canceling Hallowe’en in the Castro. Party even if your heart is breaking.. 😉

20. marisacat - 4 November 2008

77% in

about 4 million apart.. 51/47

media is looking for the numbers to grow in the last 23% because it is under 100 million. They advertised all day it would be 140 million.

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

How the hell do you vote to take away a right based in your state’s constitution and then look at your face in the mirror, let alone gloat?

22. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 November 2008

Martin has closed the gap a little in GA:

Georgia – U.S. SenateCandidate Votes
Saxby Chambliss – R Incumbent 1,623,160 51%
Jim Martin – D 1,449,944 46%
Allen Buckley – L 111,165 3%

Updated Nov-05-2008 01:04 AM
96% reporting (3191 of 3303 precincts)

23. liberalcatnip - 4 November 2008

21. You’re a Republican?

(Do I get a prize for my brilliant answer?) 😉

24. marisacat - 4 November 2008

BTW, that Bachman woman was returned to congress.

25. liberalcatnip - 4 November 2008

24. Good. Time to get those anti-Americans out of congress. Can’t wait til she starts her investigation. 🙂

26. marisacat - 5 November 2008

OK I am going to breathe a little easier on Prop 4 (notification) I am getting these from the Propositions apage at SFGATE… I cannot seem to get the SoS page for CA going…

California Election Returns
Proposition 4-Minor Abortion
All Precincts Totals
Choice Votes %
Yes 2,052,350 47.9%
No 2,228,649 52.1%

34% of precincts reporting

Updated 11/04 10:55PM

27. marisacat - 5 November 2008

OK! I got the Sec of State site to come thru (what a unforgiving site):


(cuz last I looked SF Gate shows all zeros, with a green check mark that La Nan won)

Districtwide Results
Candidate Votes Percent
* Nancy Pelosi (Dem)…. 93,101 …………. 71.6%
Dana Walsh (Rep) …… 11,707 …………… 9.0%
Philip Z. Berg (Lib)….. 2,929 …………….. 2.2%
Cindy Sheehan (Ind)….. 22,361…………… 17.2%

Let me say, Cindy getting 17 plus percent is very good. Match it with the 9 for DWalsh (we do have about 10% R here) The three took almost 30 pts. I am nto certain but I think that P Z Berg is the nutter that is a propagandist against Obama, on the issue of the birth cert.

28. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Where are the votes? Imean all the ones they promised us that big big big bucket of money was going to beat forth from the bushes to the voting booths.

Cuz Obama has 52%…. 59,865,108

McCain has 47% …… 53,741,313

That leaves one percent still hanging out there in the counting rooms. And the vote total is just south of 114 million. Which iirc is very close to the vote total for 2004 (iirc)


Charlie’s Rountable is saying, or Halperin is, that he hears from the camp that they will offer Sec of Ed to COLIN POWELL.

No word if he would consider it. If we are lucky that is just a float.

29. wu ming - 5 November 2008

prop 4 appears to be safely dead (yet again), and 8 is inching ever so slightly downwards, but i am not sure if the late balots can or will make up the difference.

it seems crueler somehow to vote 51-49 to strip people of their dignity than as a blowout. our hope may lie in the courts throwing it out, as they did similar sorts of anti-chinese initiatives in the late 19th/early 20th century (several forbade asians from owning property or starting businesses, and were tossed out on constitutional grounds).

still, if it does pass, another blot on the long-besmirched reality of california. we dfream great dreams here sometimes, but evil always seems to out-hustle us.

i blame CA dems’ fixation on saving other states instead of doing much to fix our own messes. had the money and volunteer hours stayed in-state, things might lookm different.

ah well, at any rate, we’ll have another shot at doing the right thing, and time is on our side on treating gays and lesbians as human beings. the kids, on this issue, are all right. my sibs are sending me incensed stuff on facebook because of 8, they thought this was so obviously right that it couldn’t pass.

still, who knows. maybe no on 8 will pull through in the wee hours, in the piles of provisional ballots.

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 November 2008

Where are the votes?

Funny thing, that electoral college.

31. wu ming - 5 November 2008


32. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Where are the votes?

Do we know how many Bush voters stayed home and sat on their thumbs?

I see Arkansas banned gay adoption. That sounds kinda ripe for legal challenge, too.

33. NYCO - 5 November 2008

Re NY legislature… if Paterson is smart, he will stay the course on his budgetary Bible-thumping. It will do him no good to appear too happy over Dem control of Albany. Now read the comments in this thread and tell me we’re not living in bizarro world.

34. NYCO - 5 November 2008

I am looking forward to a domino effect with a new Obama administration, particularly in the education world. Because there are a couple of annoying local education administrators I wish would just go away, and as people go up to Washington, that will make more slots open at other institutions. There’s going to be a big shuffling going on that should take a couple years to complete. Yay.

Oh, and Obama’s girls are sweeties. Little black girls growing up in the White House? Now that’s magical.

35. marisacat - 5 November 2008

wu ming

well 6 went down as well. The other two crime, cops, prisons, prison guard, etc won but at least the gang one went down…

I have not checked the am numbers for 4 and 8 yet… News is just saying a 4 pt spread on 8 in favor of Yes….

Gays need some courageous leadership… they really do.

36. marisacat - 5 November 2008

ugh just 55 in the senate if you include VT Socialist and Lieberman…

I see Novack is saying Obama does nto have a Mandate. well he certainly does, even if they fell short in the senate …

37. NYCO - 5 November 2008

Re Grant Park… heard that tickets to the rally (free tickets, but given out to supporters) were being sold for hundreds of dollars, or “for sex.” Hopefully the last bit was a joke.

38. marisacat - 5 November 2008

From The Page

Fewer than 800 votes separate the two candidates.

MSNBC: Franken is demanding a recount.

39. NYCO - 5 November 2008

So what was the popular vote in the presidential race?

40. marisacat - 5 November 2008

I see High Speed Rail turned around overnight in Ca… now winning with 4 pts. Unlikely to get built (in this economy tho it shuyld be) but i am glad it passed. Dem party mouthpieces were calling for a NO vote. Geesh let’s at least send a message.

41. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

I thought Novak was gonna shut up and retire?

Well, on the bright side, Connecticut can pick up the SS marriage banner for awhile. Their once-every-20-year constitutional convention went down.

“This election came down to basics: Most people do not want to use the state constitution to take away people’s rights,” said Peggy Shorey, campaign manager for Vote No.

A coalition of public school teachers’ unions contributed most of the money for the “no” campaign. But the “yes” campaign said the General Assembly has clearly not done its job on issues like gay marriage, eminent domain and reining in state spending.

The “no” campaign was far outspending the “yes” campaign last month before the Connecticut Catholic Conference paid for a television commercial that showed a woman standing outside the state Capitol and urging voters to say “yes” on Election Day.

“The Church has been like the cavalry coming over the hill with guns blazing,” said Peter Wolfgang, executive director of the Family Institute of Connecticut, which supported the convention. “The other side was outspending us 83 to 1. The only thing that leveled it out is the Catholic Church.”

Fuck off, cavalry!

42. marisacat - 5 November 2008

28 has numbers within 1% of final. I hven’t looked yet this am…

43. marisacat - 5 November 2008


I thought he promised to retire and .. you know.. DIE.

His column just ooozes meanesss… Think iirc (read it quick lest I catch something) he compared the Obama win to the SECOND Roosevelt win.

LOL what a nut.

44. marisacat - 5 November 2008

What a hoot! Swamp of the North

Alaska: Stevens (R) 48 %, Begich (D) 47% (99% of precincts reporting).

I gather no one is calling it.. hangs int eh balance

45. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Ha ha ha – my first draft of that comment involved Novak’s date with the dirt nap, too.

46. marisacat - 5 November 2008

I see Dkos beloved Kleeb (Melrath called him “Senator McDreamy”) lost big in Nebraska to Johanns. 18 pt spread.

47. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Saw film of this this morning… it was pretty cheerful… 😉

At the gate

CBS News reports that a group of young people gathered outside the White House tonight, chanting Obama’s name.

By Ben Smith 11:49 PM

48. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Oh noes! Hunk smashed! Guess you just can’t count on actual Nebraskans to roll to the polls on round heels!

In other (burnt) orange news, pinche tejano has diary at FSZ telling kos to stay the fuck out of Texas.

49. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Whoopsie. FSZ link.

So, basically, if you are gonna run in Texas, and nutroots call, run, don’t walk away.

50. marisacat - 5 November 2008

pinche whooo whoo sould call Ohio. They have stories to tell… from across the years. I bet Sherrod’s wife would let go of some of them if asked nicely. They rolled into Ohio in a few elections, determined to “take over”. Aside from all their Hackett games (on, off, on again, off again, call Reid, call Sherrod, bulldoze anyway, etc)

That grifter stock tout astrologer from MyDD went in himself.

51. NYCO - 5 November 2008

Very simply put…

These huge crowds of people are impressive, but they beg the question: Where the hell have they been for the last 8 years or more?

If the only thing that can get Americans out on the streets in an expressive crowd, on this order of magnitude, is a single person… that is not a good thing and shows that our polity is not healthy.

This really isn’t about Obama, it’s about us, and I’m kind of stunned that – even amid the good feelings – no one is raising an eyebrow at it. The country is in a great state of disorder. I’m not interested in personality-cult democracy. I don’t even think Obama is that interested in it… wish I could say the same for the electorate.

52. marisacat - 5 November 2008

I call this a good decision. IMO he too often drowned in game show display and Reagan drama:

Obama Canceled Fireworks for This Evening

November 05, 2008 1:05 AM

Given all the pomp and pageantry of past events for President-elect Obama, why was tonight’s celebration speech so subdued?

That was intentional.

In fact. fireworks were originally planned for this evening, but President-elect Obama canceled them.

“Given the sobriety of the times, he didn’t feel they were appropriate,” senior adviser David Axelrod tells ABC News.

— Jake Tapper and Andy Fies

53. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

CNN is promising a clip of Colin Powell brought to tears . . . after this commercial message . . .

54. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

51 – Well, there’s been precious little to celebrate in last 8 years, and riot police have been in charge of less happy gatherings. . . .

Agree about the fireworks . . . heard that last night.

55. marisacat - 5 November 2008

I don’t even think Obama is that interested in it… wish I could say the same for the electorate

I go back and forth on that one. Think it is open to argument. He really dislikes criticism. The story goes that he is even tempered (and he is) but when he bristles it is at very honest and direct, mild to date, criticism of himself. He was ”offended” that people might agree with Wright, that he acted as a pol. Not the only time he used the implicit “back off, I am now OFFENDED” defense.

He revels in all that quasi religio slop. Which is worrisome. Quite aside from the control issues it raises. (If people want to throw themselves into some floaty hologram of a baptismal font, and virtually drwon, I won’t be stopping them… LOL)

Well the media and all sorts of avenues beat the bushes for 2 years and more to produce some “effect” of the election. And so we see what we see.

I had to search in caches and only found one report still “findable” (1976 after all) but news reports gave Carter 300,000 the night before election at some huge midnight turn out in LA. I only searched as I remembered the media breaking in on network TV to carry a live report.

But, you know, god forbid that it ever be anyone other than BamaBaby.

The adulation the media hype gets so old. It is mostly done I think for the cash commerce that elections have become.

56. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Uh oh – Dubya’s gonna say a few words first!

57. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Chuck Todd says Chief of Staff will be decided today.

58. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Kos in a snip[pet on the Today Show.. with the Boesendorfer in teh back ground, says Obama would nto exist wihtout the internet.


59. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Heard something about this last night: Green Party says ballots’ write-in space too small

HARTFORD, Conn. – The Green Party says it plans to file a complaint with Connecticut election officials because the state’s ballots don’t have enough space to write in candidates.

Tim McKee of the Green Party’s national committee says the write-in space is less than an inch. He says he’s worried that some write-in votes won’t be counted because candidates’ names won’t be legible.

Green Party and Libertarians were unable to get their major candidates on the Connecticut ballot because of questions about petition signatures. They were forced to wage write-in campaigns.

60. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Coleman and Franken race is going to undergo automatic recount, according to AP. Process may stretch into December.

61. NYCO - 5 November 2008

The Iroquois have their own term for the U.S. president: “Honedagyus” (a very serious sounding word, pronounced “honna-da-GUY-us”) It means “Town Destroyer.” It was first applied to George Washington (whose Sullivan Expedition burned their heartland in 1779) and since then they have addressed every U.S. president by that name in official correspondence. This despite them entering into a peace treaty with Washington which they still honor fiercely.

So on January 20, Obama will become Honedagyus.

The idea being that a president becomes the office… and every bad thing or act of war or act of shame that went with it, and has remained unaddressed, sticks to the current occupant. This is not a concept shared by a lot of Americans, I think. They think the evil is concentrated within George Bush and that when he goes, it goes.

I guess I’d like an honest assessment of how evil the presidency has become, especially over the last few years, and that Obama inherits every shred of it… or else that wouldn’t be good either, as evil tends to stick to one, and it’s usually the “intelligent” who most vulnerable to evil, particularly when they’re so intelligent and educated that they no longer believe it exists.

62. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Also from AP:

Preliminary projections based on 83 percent of the country’s precincts tallied, indicate that more than 131 million Americans will have voted this year, easily outdistancing 2004’s 122.3 million, which had been the highest grand total of voters before.

That puts the 2008 turnout rate of eligible voters hovering around 64 percent, experts said.

That’s the best in at least 44 years, maybe more depending on who is doing the counting and how they count.

63. marisacat - 5 November 2008

There is no breakdown for this number, nor link to any text or graf… not sure why the breakdown up thread for Ob/McC numbers don’t add up to more… if this is accurate (via Ambinder):

05 Nov 2008 10:25 am

Turnout Projection: 133m

GWU’s Michael McDonald projects a national turnout of 132.8 million, or 62.3% of eligible voters.

Permalink :: TrackBacks (0) ::

64. marisacat - 5 November 2008


in synch!

65. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

U.S. strike kills wedding party goers: Afghan officials

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) – A U.S. air strike killed a number of Afghan civilians, officials said on Wednesday, as President Hamid Karzai called on newly elected Barack Obama to make it his priority to stop the killing of innocents.

Sure. Good luck with that.

“By bombing Afghanistan, the war against terrorism cannot be won,” Karzai told a news conference. “As we speak today, we had again civilian casualties … In Shah Wali Kot of Kandahar we had civilian casualties,” he said.

Karzai did not give any more details but several villagers who had taken a group of wounded to the hospital in Kandahar city said more than 90 people had been killed and dozens more wounded in the air strike on Monday, which they said hit a wedding party.

I think Obama’s troop surge in Afghanistan may end up to be one of the huge blunders of his upcoming presidency.

66. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008


Looks like Politico has called Indiana for O, but NC (49.8 Ob to 49.6 McC) and MO (49.5 McC and 49.3 Ob) are still on the tightrope.

67. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

Chris Floyd: “What If Bush Did It?” – A Prism for the New Paradigm

He starts off:

As the United States enters a new and unprecedented political era — or, as killjoy cynics might put it, as the American empire gets a new set of temporary managers — the fate of the “dissident” movement that arose under the Bush Regime seems greatly occluded.

I guess I have a new moniker now – “killjoy cynic” (I can live with that) – since this is what I wrote last nite:

I’m not excited. Not like the massive throngs of people waiting on the edges of their seats to find out who will lead The Empire into its next chapter of “change” (however you want to define that).

68. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Stevens still holding one percent lead in Alaska.

Obama’s troop surge in Afghanistan may end up to be one of the huge blunders of his upcoming presidency

Supposedly he starts getting sensitive intelligence briefings tomorrow.

69. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

As Floyd writes:

So if President Obama, heeding his own band of neo-con outriders, ultimately finds the Iranians too evil and stubborn to give up their lawful and intensely supervised nuclear program, and decides — reluctantly, of course, as “a last resort” — to launch, say, a “limited strike to bring them back to the bargaining table,” will American “progressives” utilize the WIBDI tool, and lead marches in the street against this Bush-like use of unilateral force? Or will they suddenly discover the wisdom and effectiveness of judiciously applied, expertly managed “pre-emptive” strikes? (“You can trust Obama; he’s too cool and rational to go off half-cocked the way Bush would. If he says we need to do this, then you know that it’s been well thought-out and the right thing to do.”) Indeed, will they not follow the injunction of Joe Biden, and “gird their loins” to stand with Obama in the face of an unpopular policy, even if “it’s not gonna be apparent initially…that we’re right”?

Which is exactly what I meant when I wrote that Obamalama will be forgiven early and often by those who claim to be in luv with him.

70. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

oops…html cleanup on aisle 4. The last sentence is mine.

71. marisacat - 5 November 2008

The Greeks call whoever is US president: Planetarchis… Ruler of the Planet.

Town Destroyer works well too.

Well we cannot have happy transtiion of power unless all darkness and debris belongs in the past, to someone else, and does not attach to the office, no matter who inhabits it….

72. marisacat - 5 November 2008

I guess I have a new moniker now – “killjoy cynic”

Just remember I am the lesbian homophobe racist. Among so many other monikers gifted from the nut roots and various operatives.

Silber, when he heard the LHR line wrote and said to marry him, I was such a rare item I should b scooped up.

All you can do is laugh.

73. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Somebody gave me an Obama air freshener a month or two ago, so I guess I can unwrap it now!

74. NYCO - 5 November 2008

I fed my dog her Bush Biskit yesterday. A few weeks early I admit. I believe she found it delicious.

75. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

72. Just remember I am the lesbian homophobe racist.

I obviously have some work to do before I reach that level. lol

No one’s called me a lesbian yet, that I know of.

Silber, when he heard the LHR line wrote and said to marry him, I was such a rare item I should b scooped up.

w00t! Intertubes nuptials. I’ll bring the cheesecake.

76. aemd - 5 November 2008

Good read at Ioz, Augustus.

“At least we’ll have someone new to jeer. Don’t get me wrong. It’s impossible to work up a good head of disconsolation in the face of a general reversion to the mean. Although I expect the coming régime to provide less fodder for high-kick comedy than the current, I expect it to be a much more interesting study in the operation of the modern executive-imperial American state. The ham-handed execution of executive expansion and foreign imperialism under George Dubya will now yield to subtler application of the same policies and prerogatives. Liberals and Progressives are already primed to accept this. More so. They’re actively revising their opposition into support.”

77. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

74. A pre-emptive strike?

78. marisacat - 5 November 2008

I expect it to be a much more interesting study in the operation of the modern executive-imperial American state. — IOZ via aemd

I am with IOZ on that one… 8)

79. wu ming - 5 November 2008

i think HSR might actually get funding, given how it’s an actual physical thing. after decades of vaporware, the bond markets might be rather pleased with an actual train.

watching the “law and order” gangs bill go down in flames was a small comfort. it seems like some parts of the bad old california are slowly losing their deathgrip on the state, but not enough to break loose and try something really new for a change. 8 is just killing me, WTF is wrong with LA county? i understand the reactionary votes of valley and the foothills (although i’m stunned by the gold country and plumas county voting down the abortion trojan horse), but LA just doesn’t make any sense to me. aren’t they a goddamn city, with urban liberals and shit?

blows my mind, i thought we’d pull it out. next time, maybe.

80. marisacat - 5 November 2008

From First read on over all numbers:

*** Highest Turnout Rate Since ’08 — 1908: Provided the number stands, the turnout rate for yesterday’s election was the highest in 100 years, according to the estimate from turnout guru Dr. Mike McDonald at George Mason University.

Almost 137 million (136,631,825) went to the polls — 64.1% of the voting-eligible population. 1960 saw 63.7% of the populace go out to vote; In 1908, 65.7% voted. It was, of course, the most people ever to go to the polls topping 2004’s 122 million. That’s 12% increase from 2004.

For those wondering why the current total vote in the presidential adds up to approximately 117 million, note that it’s going to climb. There is still a ton of vote missing on the West coast.


81. marisacat - 5 November 2008


LA County is its own world. Will check the numbers I had not looked at county breakdowns.

sad to say black votes helped on 8… they went 70% for YES, or so I read over at the Schnauzers at The Corner (Byron York)…nothing to compare to white Catholic money and votes… nor LDS money, money money and interference and partnering with big white Catholic money…. etc… but a bad number.

Other than that…


Ambinder has the covers of today’s newspapers in historic civil rights cities…

82. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

I’ve never heard this word before: AP Uncalls Minnesota Senate Race

83. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

I wonder if Palin has a book deal yet.

84. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

DK diarist rwood5628 predicts that if Prop 8 passes, the California Supremes will strike it down.

There is ample precedent under CA law that alterations of fundamental rights cannot to done with a mere amendment via majority vote of the electorate. This would constitute a “revision” of the CA Constitution would requires 2/3 vote of both Houses of Legislature AND a 2/3 vote by the electorate or alternatively a State Constitutional Convention called by 2/3 vote of both houses.

It will have to be litigated but we will prevail.

85. marisacat - 5 November 2008

It has to be litigated, 8.

Becasue otherwise it changes our Constitution. One fo the foundations of the finding from the SC was that our Constitution, rightly, did not in its wording limit marriage as to gender, nor did it define marriage by gender.

86. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

BTW – Never fear . . . Nader hate is refreshed anew.

Over on Fox, Nader says that Obama can either be an “Uncle Sam,” or an “Uncle Tom.”

Video below the fold.

Ralph Nader needs to SHFPH. Note to anyone who is supposed to be “progressive:” if you’re on Fox News giving post-election analysis, you’ve gone over to the dark side.

Hopefully, kos doesn’t have any Fox interviews lined up for today.

87. marisacat - 5 November 2008


well “liberal”, meaning tied to the Dem machine, radio here is denigrating any ideas Palin might have. As in “VP canddiate who lost”. Who does the bimbo think she is (pretty close). Under the breath, fuck her.

Edwards? All the fucking fluffing that the Dems did for their Southern White Boy. WHO LOST. On a screwed up, fractious and riddled with disputes ticket. So long ago, in 04.

88. marisacat - 5 November 2008


LOL Nader can say what he wants imo. We are so riddled with righteous PC silence.

Democrats need to get over that Fox foolishness. It is just a stance. As Ob in his purity did nto go on Fox, all his consultants did… quite cosily too. Nicely prep spots, greased and buttered.

89. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Dennis Herrera, our city atty is prepping the pushback to 8 winning. Take it back to the SC.

90. marisacat - 5 November 2008


Took me a while. Shut his fucking pie hole.

91. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

But of course!

Speaking of pie holes, here’s a handy little roundup of “world leader” congratulations (by diarist dagnabbit), which includes this:


“Believers are praying that God will enlighten him and help him in his great responsibility, which is enormous because of the global importance of the United States. We hope Obama can fulfil the expectations and hopes that many have in him.”

Sniff, sniff! Get Ratzy some air freshener, quick!

92. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Michael Crichton died. …

93. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

From Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Pope Benedict XVI sent a personal message to President-elect Barack Obama Nov. 5, congratulating him and offering his prayers for Obama and for all the people of the United States.

Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, Vatican spokesman, said that because the message was addressed personally to Obama the Vatican did not plan to publish it.

However, he said, the papal message opened by referring to the “historic occasion” of the election, marking the first time a black man has been elected president of the United States.

The pope congratulated Obama, his wife and family, Father Lombardi said.

“He assured him of his prayers that God would help him with his high responsibilities for his country and for the international community,” Father Lombardi said.

The pope also prayed that “the blessing of God would sustain him and the American people so that with all people of good will they could build a world of peace, solidarity and justice,” the spokesman said.

Asked if the pope mentioned any specific issues he was concerned about, Father Lombardi responded, “peace, solidarity and justice.”

The message to Obama was sent through the office of Mary Ann Glendon, the U.S. ambassador to the Holy See, he said. Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican secretary of state, also sent a message.

Father Lombardi said it is likely a formal message also will be sent on the occasion of Obama’s Jan. 20 inauguration; in past years, the Vatican custom has been that the pope congratulates a new U.S. president only when he formally takes office.

94. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Independent UK

What the world wants from its president

Barack Obama will become the most powerful man in the world when he becomes president, and it’s not just the US which is waitng to see what happens. Independent correspondents from around the world explain what other countries are expecting.


Others warned, however, that, once the gloss wore off, an Obama presidency was likely to bump against fundamental differences of interest between Europe and the US on issues ranging from trade, to climate change and how to handle a more assertive or belligerent Russia.

There was also a notable difference of tone yesterday in the reactions of those countries dismissed by the Bush administration as “Old Europe” and the reactions of some of the former Soviet bloc countries, which had aligned themselves with the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld worldview.

95. marisacat - 5 November 2008

ABC News: They will add the Arizona Governor, former Clinton Transportation and Energy Secretary and former Clinton Commerce Secretary to the team’s advisory board.

Announcement expected to be made Wednesday.

96. marisacat - 5 November 2008

oops that is Daley, Pena and Napolitano…

97. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

President Nicolas Sarkozy has annoyed many French people – including some in his own camp – by ingratiating himself with the formerly frog-bashing Bush administration since his election 17 months ago. Even he, however, has scarcely hidden his preference for Obama in recent weeks.

In a glowing congratulatory letter yesterday, M. Sarkozy addressed to “Dear Barak (sic)”, the president said that Mr Obama’s “brilliant victory” and “exceptional campaign” had demonstrated to the world the continuing strength of American democracy.

“At a time when we all face immense challenges, your election will inspire immense new hope in France, in Europe and in the entire world,” President Sarkozy said.

Pore pitiful Palin . . . Montrealers will enjoy this especially.

98. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Speaking of Sarah, Andrea Mitchell just told Kathleen Parker some anecdote about Palin greeting McCain staffers at a hotel room briefing wearing only a couple of towels (Parker was pretty shocked, but managed a joke about her apparently really needing that wardrobe), and when I googled to find out the source, oh my goodness, the top result for the search was a Delaware Dem(ento) diary at Delaware Liberal, titled “Palin Was Just a Republican Sex Kitten.” Good old Luscious links to an item at HuffPo, but the original source of the story is Newsweek: Secrets of the 2008 Campaign.

More backstory on the “outrageous profligacy” of Palin’s shopping spree – bigger and badder than was previously reported – and
apparently Steve Schmidt nixed Palin’s request to say something onstage last night.

An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as “Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast,” and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

A Palin aide said: “Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin.”

Gosh, that didn’t take long, did it? There may be tiretracks on the moosehunter, but she ain’t done shooting yet!

99. NYCO - 5 November 2008

DK diarist rwood5628 predicts that if Prop 8 passes, the California Supremes will strike it down.

And if not, it will be bumped up to the Supremes Court.

100. Artemisia - 5 November 2008

Lest We Forget Who Got Us Here

Fannie Lou Hamer (October 6, 1917 – March 14, 1977)

Fannie Lou Hamer was born in Ruleville, Mississippi, the last of 20 children in a sharecropping family. She was workng the fields at 6 and left school after the 6th grade. When she was 12, her parents had saved enough money to rent a farm and buy some mules. A white neighbor poisoned their mules and her family was forced into deeper debt. (http://www.americanswhotellthetruth.org/pgs/portraits/Fannie_Lou_Hamer.html)

In 1942 she married. Though Fannie Lou wanted children, unbeknownst to her she had be sterilized without her consent in an effort by the State of Mississippi as part of a program to reduce the population of poor black people in the state. Fannie went on to adopt two chldren.

from wiki:

Hamer attended several annual conferences of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL) in the all-black town of Mound Bayou, Mississippi. The RCNL was led by businessman, Dr. T.R.M. Howard, and was a combination civil rights and self-help organization. The annual RCNL conferences featured entertainers, such as Mahalia Jackson, speakers, such as Thurgood Marshall and Rep. Charles Diggs of Michigan, and panels on voting rights and other civil rights issues. Without her knowledge or consent, she was sterilized in 1961 by a white doctor as a part of the state of Mississippi’s plan to reduce the number of poor blacks in the state.[1]

On August 23, 1962, Rev. James Bevel, an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and an associate of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., gave a sermon in Ruleville, Mississippi and followed it with an appeal to those assembled to register to vote. Black people who registered to vote in the South faced serious hardships at that time due to institutionalized racism, including harassment, the loss of their jobs, physical beatings, and lynchings; nonetheless, Hamer was the first volunteer. She later said, “I guess if I’d had any sense, I’d have been scared – but what was the point of being scared? The only thing they [white people] could do was kill me, and it seemed they’d been trying to do that a little at a time since I could remember.”

On August 31, she traveled on a rented bus with other attendees of Rev. Bevel’s sermon to Indianola, Mississippi to register. In what would become a signature trait of Hamer’s activist career, she began singing Christian hymns, such as “Go Tell It on the Mountain” and “This Little Light of Mine,” to the group in order to bolster their resolve. The hymns also reflected Hamer’s belief that the civil rights struggle was a deeply spiritual one. By the next day, she had been harassed by police, fired from her job, lost her dog, and received a death threat from the Ku Klux Klan.

Hamer’s courage and leadership in Indianola came to the attention of SNCC organizer Bob Moses, who dispatched Charles McLaurin from the organization with instructions to find “the lady who sings the hymns”. McLaurin found and recruited Hamer, and though she remained based in Mississippi, she began traveling around the South doing activist work for the organization.

from http://www.beejae.com/hamer.htm
On August 31, 1962, Mrs. Hamer decided she had had enough of sharecropping. Leaving her house in Ruleville, MS she and 17 others took a bus to the courthouse in Indianola, the county seat, to register to vote. On their return home, police stopped their bus. They were told that their bus was the wrong color. Fannie Lou and the others were arrested and jailed.

After being released from jail, the plantation owner paid the Hamers a visit and told Fannie Lou that if she insisted on voting, she would have to get off his land – even though she had been there for eighteen years. She left the plantation that same day. Ten days later, night riders fired 16 bullets into the home of the family with whom she had gone to stay.

from http://www.beejae.com/hamer.htm
On June 3, 1963, Fannie Lou Hamer and other civil rights workers arrived in Winona, MS by bus. They were ordered off the bus and taken to Montgomery County Jail. The story continues “…Then three white men came into my room. One was a state highway policeman (he had the marking on his sleeve)… They said they were going to make me wish I was dead. They made me lay down on my face and they ordered two Negro prisoners to beat me with a blackjack. That was unbearable. The first prisoner beat me until he was exhausted, then the second Negro began to beat me. I had polio when I was about six years old. I was limp. I was holding my hands behind me to protect my weak side. I began to work my feet. My dress pulled up and I tried to smooth it down. One of the policemen walked over and raised my dress as high as he could. They beat me until my body was hard, ’til I couldn’t bend my fingers or get up when they told me to. That’s how I got this blood clot in my eye – the sight’s nearly gone now. My kidney was injured from the blows they gave me on the back.”

Mrs Hamer was left in the cell, bleeding and battered, listening to the screams of Ann Powder, a fellow civil rights worker, who was also undergoing a severe beating in another cell. She overheard white policemen talking about throwing their bodies into the Big Black River where they would never be found.

from wiki
Released on June 12, she needed more than a month to recover. Though the incident had profound physical and psychological effects, Hamer returned to Mississippi to organize voter registration drives, including the “Freedom Ballot Campaign”, a mock election, in 1963, and the “Freedom Summer” initiative in 1964. She was known to the volunteers of Freedom Summer – most of whom were young, white, and from northern states – as a motherly figure who believed that the civil rights effort should be multi-racial in nature.

from wiki
1964 Democratic Convention
n the summer of 1964, the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party, or “Freedom Democrats” for short, was organized with the purpose of challenging Mississippi’s all-white and anti-civil rights delegation to the Democratic National Convention of that year as not representative of all Mississippians. Hamer was elected Vice-Chair.

The Freedom Democrats’ efforts drew national attention to the plight of African-Americans in Mississippi, and represented a challenge to President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was seeking the Democratic Party’s nomination for reelection; their success would mean that other Southern delegations, who were already leaning toward Republican challenger Barry Goldwater, would publicly break from the convention’s decision to nominate Johnson — meaning in turn that he would almost certainly lose those states’ electoral votes in the election. Hamer, singing her signature hymns, drew a great deal of attention from the media, enraging Johnson, who referred to her in speaking to his advisors as “that illiterate woman”.

Hamer was invited, along with the rest of the MFDP officers, to address the Convention’s Credentials Committee. She recounted the problems she had encountered in registration, and the ordeal of the jail in Winona, and, near tears, concluded:

“All of this is on account we want to register [sic], to become first-class citizens, and if the Freedom Democratic Party is not seated now, I question America. Is this America, the land of the free and the home of the brave where we have to sleep with our telephones off the hooks because our lives be threatened daily because we want to live as decent human beings – in America?” In Washington, D.C., President Johnson called an emergency press conference in an effort to divert press coverage away from Hamer’s testimony; but many television networks ran the speech unedited on their late news programs. The Credentials Committee received thousands of calls and letters in support of the Freedom Democrats.

Johnson then dispatched several trusted Democratic Party operatives to attempt to negotiate with the Freedom Democrats, including Senator Hubert Humphrey (who was campaigning for the Vice-Presidential nomination), Walter Mondale, Walter Reuther, and J. Edgar Hoover. They suggested a compromise which would give the MFDP two seats in exchange for other concessions, and secured the endorsement of Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for the plan. But when Humphrey outlined the compromise, saying that his position on the ticket was at stake, Hamer, invoking her Christian beliefs, sharply rebuked him:

“Do you mean to tell me that your position is more important than four hundred thousand black people’s lives? Senator Humphrey, I know lots of people in Mississippi who have lost their jobs trying to register to vote. I had to leave the plantation where I worked in Sunflower County, Mississippi. Now if you lose this job of Vice-President because you do what is right, because you help the MFDP, everything will be all right. God will take care of you. But if you take [the nomination] this way, why, you will never be able to do any good for civil rights, for poor people, for peace, or any of those things you talk about. Senator Humphrey, I’m going to pray to Jesus for you.”

Future negotiations were conducted without Hamer, and the compromise was modified such that the Convention would select the two delegates to be seated, for fear the MFDP would appoint Hamer. In the end, the MFDP rejected the compromise,but had changed the debate.

In 1965 President Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act.

from : http://womenshistory.about.com/od/civilrights/a/fannielou_hamer.htm
From 1968 to 1971, Fannie Lou Hamer was a member of the Democratic National Committee for Mississippi.

from http://www.awomanaweek.com/hamer.htm
In 1968, The Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party took on a new name – The Mississippi Loyalist Democratic Party, to reflect its broadened membership which now included sympathetic white members. When Fannie took her seat in Chicago at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, she took it to a standing ovation

from : http://womenshistory.about.com/od/civilrights/a/fannielou_hamer.htm
Her 1970 lawsuit, Hamer v. Sunflower County, demanded school desegregation. She ran unsuccessfully for the Mississippi state Senate in 1971, and successfully for delegate to the Democratic National Convention of 1972.

She also lectured extensively, and was known for a signature line she often used, “I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired.” She was known as a powerful speaker, and her singing voice lent another power to civil rights meetings.

Fannie Lou Hamer brought a Head Start program to her local community, to form a local Pig Bank cooperative (1968) with the help of the National Council of Negro Women, and later to found the Freedom Farm Cooperative (1969). She helped found the National Women’s Political Caucus in 1971, speaking for inclusion of racial issues in the feminist agenda.

In 1972 the Mississippi House of Representatives passed a resolution honoring her national and state activism, passing 116 to 0.

Suffering from breast cancer, diabetes, and heart problems, Fannie Lou Hamer died in Mississippi in 1977.

Her epitaph was her signature quote, :I;m sick and tired of being sick and tired.”

Writings about her life inclued her autobiography To Praise Our Bridges: An Autobiograpy in 1967. June Jordan published a biography of Fannie Lou Hamer in 1972, and Kay Mills published This Little Light of Mine: the Life of Fannie Lou Hamer in 1993.

101. marisacat - 5 November 2008

San Francisco City Hall has sstopped SSM til they get a legal opinion.

BTW I meant to mention that the Unitarians here did round the clock 24 hour free weddings in the run up to election. Really wonderful…

102. NYCO - 5 November 2008

From the Newsweek juicy tidbits piece…

The Obama campaign’s New Media experts created a computer program that would allow a “flusher”—the term for a volunteer who rounds up nonvoters on Election Day—to know exactly who had, and had not, voted in real time. They dubbed it Project Houdini, because of the way names disappear off the list instantly once people are identified as they wait in line at their local polling station.

Um, color me a tad creeped out.

103. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Poor Del Dem. Bet he still has pink and purple boas hidden in his closet. And sparkle eye shadow.

Such a wanna be.

And a wannabe top Dem gun. Wonder if it shoots as many blanks as his other gun.

104. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

Reuters brrrreaking:

Lehman says Richard Fuld to step down from CEO post at year-end, will not claim severance or other bonus payment at the end of his employment

105. marisacat - 5 November 2008


well data mining is the big issue. But now they put everybody’s best older or younger brother in using it.

Election washing, good name I think.

I have maintained for years, not in real time obviously, but after bit they know who voted how and for how long, from a specific location.. They know/or knew what votes have been coming from what precinct. What block imo. They can juggle the numbers. But now they know right away. And if you happened to read the articles over the past year on data mining for the Dems, it seemed, reading between the lines it, fast vote feedback, was one thing they wanted. As much as micro targetting.

106. marisacat - 5 November 2008

ugh re reading:

They dubbed it Project Houdini, because of the way names disappear off the list instantly once people are identified as they wait in line at their local polling station

taht si a lot faster than I ever expected.

107. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Well the speedy feedback certainly makes sense if you’re gonna harass the shit out of voters until they cast their ballot. Frees up your whips to bother someone else, and cuts down on bad citizen aftertaste.

108. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

Tapper: Obama Offers Rahm Emanuel Job of White House Chief of Staff

He’s another one who creeps me out. So, how do so-called progressives square this DLC choice with what they supposedly believe? And just how quickly will they rush in to justify this choice? Oh look! Obama’s compromising already. Isn’t he great?

109. marisacat - 5 November 2008

oh Rahm is reprehensible. No other word. And a Lieberman about Israel. The Dems soft coat his time in the IDF… but … let’s get real. The family for decades went back adn forth between US and Israel. Those alliances and confidences get old…

And the Dems deep down are happy to keep Liebchen. IMO.

110. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

99 – Good one! Justice Ross would surely join the majority to toss out Prop 8.

111. marisacat - 5 November 2008

ugh 106

I just ignore the phone on election day.. it rings all day long with exhortations, robo-ing and whatever.

last year I alsmot missed Safeway calling to see if they could make an early delivery, as all day long the Democrats called me.

It’s OK, I am reconciled that is Free Speech.. but tracking that tight is nerve racking (knowing you are in line)

112. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

Didn’t Brokaw ask Kerry about Lieberman the other day? And Kerry said Harumph, harumph, I want him to be a Democrat!

113. Intermittent Bystander - 5 November 2008

knowing you are in line

Yeah, that does get start to get into ankle-bracelet territory, don’t it.

114. NYCO - 5 November 2008

I’m confused about the Houdini thing. How does the campaign get your name when you are standing in line to vote, unless you give it to a campaign worker?

115. lucid - 5 November 2008

113 – you know those ‘google’ pictures where you can click on an address and see the street view?

116. NYCO - 5 November 2008

114. Still not following I’m afraid. How would they have my name and know when I voted in real-time?

117. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Well I assuemd they meant you have either signed in and waiting for a slot to open, shown your ID or like I do (when I still went to the polling station) show my voter booklet and sign in… .

I can’t think other than surveillance camera with some advanced face recognition and extensive data files on all of us (not yet in place quite, to that point) they would know before you sign in.

118. NYCO - 5 November 2008

116. Maybe, but how would that information get released in real-time to campaign workers?

I think this could only work if they have campaign workers out in the street polling people’s names as they’re standing in long lines, or something. In which case, the voters are giving away Too Much Information.

As for signing in, I don’t know about your polling place, but here nobody signs in until they’re the next person to go. You wait in line, sign, brief wait for the person ahead of you to finish, but there’s never anyone ahead of you waiting. The tables are right next to the voting machines.

119. Artemisia - 5 November 2008

baypraire said that i might be stuck in spam?

120. marisacat - 5 November 2008

well here, last I voted at the polling booth, in 2004 but that is about 10 voting events ago (really)…. it was the same as ever. check in, they locate you in two books (don’t ask me why) doing it manually, give you the voting form and then you wait for the next open slot.

I would assume these days they can chekc off as you vote, electronically, more or less… but that is not what the tid bit in Newsweek said. Will go find the whole article and give it a read. Maybe it ws tongue in cheek from teh get go.

Unfortunately we always have tons of state and local ballot measures otherwise, to be frank, I feel burned on voting. For me it is meaningless here in CA. And if they have tracking that close, I am happy to give it up or continue absentee by mail. If the damned thing reaches them fine.

121. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Dow down 500

but don’t worry! The TV told me (when ti was down 300+) that a O win was “already priced in”.

Whew. I feel better!

122. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Artemisia… very sorry it fell to spam and I did nto notice the little counter saying “1”

It is up thread at 100

….. 8) ….

123. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Another thread………………….


…………………. 8) ………………………….

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