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Another thread… ;) 5 November 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


Chemin Fleuri [Denis Carl]


Because this comment from Artemisia languished in Spam file for an hour, let me bring it forward:


Lest We Forget Who Got Us Here

Fannie Lou Hamer (October 6, 1917 – March 14, 1977)

Fannie Lou Hamer was born in Ruleville, Mississippi, the last of 20 children in a sharecropping family. She was workng the fields at 6 and left school after the 6th grade. When she was 12, her parents had saved enough money to rent a farm and buy some mules. A white neighbor poisoned their mules and her family was forced into deeper debt.

( http://www.americanswhotellthetruth.org/pgs/portraits/Fannie_Lou_Hamer.html )

In 1942 she married. Though Fannie Lou wanted children, unbeknownst to her she had be sterilized without her consent in an effort by the State of Mississippi as part of a program to reduce the population of poor black people in the state. Fannie went on to adopt two chldren.

from wiki:

Hamer attended several annual conferences of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL) in the all-black town of Mound Bayou, Mississippi. The RCNL was led by businessman, Dr. T.R.M. Howard, and was a combination civil rights and self-help organization. The annual RCNL conferences featured entertainers, such as Mahalia Jackson, speakers, such as Thurgood Marshall and Rep. Charles Diggs of Michigan, and panels on voting rights and other civil rights issues. Without her knowledge or consent, she was sterilized in 1961 by a white doctor as a part of the state of Mississippi’s plan to reduce the number of poor blacks in the state.[1]

On August 23, 1962, Rev. James Bevel, an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and an associate of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., gave a sermon in Ruleville, Mississippi and followed it with an appeal to those assembled to register to vote. Black people who registered to vote in the South faced serious hardships at that time due to institutionalized racism, including harassment, the loss of their jobs, physical beatings, and lynchings; nonetheless, Hamer was the first volunteer. She later said, “I guess if I’d had any sense, I’d have been scared – but what was the point of being scared? The only thing they [white people] could do was kill me, and it seemed they’d been trying to do that a little at a time since I could remember.”

On August 31, she traveled on a rented bus with other attendees of Rev. Bevel’s sermon to Indianola, Mississippi to register. In what would become a signature trait of Hamer’s activist career, she began singing Christian hymns, such as “Go Tell It on the Mountain” and “This Little Light of Mine,” to the group in order to bolster their resolve. The hymns also reflected Hamer’s belief that the civil rights struggle was a deeply spiritual one. By the next day, she had been harassed by police, fired from her job, lost her dog, and received a death threat from the Ku Klux Klan.

Hamer’s courage and leadership in Indianola came to the attention of SNCC organizer Bob Moses, who dispatched Charles McLaurin from the organization with instructions to find “the lady who sings the hymns”. McLaurin found and recruited Hamer, and though she remained based in Mississippi, she began traveling around the South doing activist work for the organization.

from http://www.beejae.com/hamer.htm

On August 31, 1962, Mrs. Hamer decided she had had enough of sharecropping. Leaving her house in Ruleville, MS she and 17 others took a bus to the courthouse in Indianola, the county seat, to register to vote. On their return home, police stopped their bus. They were told that their bus was the wrong color. Fannie Lou and the others were arrested and jailed.

After being released from jail, the plantation owner paid the Hamers a visit and told Fannie Lou that if she insisted on voting, she would have to get off his land – even though she had been there for eighteen years. She left the plantation that same day. Ten days later, night riders fired 16 bullets into the home of the family with whom she had gone to stay.

from http://www.beejae.com/hamer.htm

On June 3, 1963, Fannie Lou Hamer and other civil rights workers arrived in Winona, MS by bus. They were ordered off the bus and taken to Montgomery County Jail. The story continues “…Then three white men came into my room. One was a state highway policeman (he had the marking on his sleeve)… They said they were going to make me wish I was dead. They made me lay down on my face and they ordered two Negro prisoners to beat me with a blackjack. That was unbearable. The first prisoner beat me until he was exhausted, then the second Negro began to beat me. I had polio when I was about six years old. I was limp. I was holding my hands behind me to protect my weak side. I began to work my feet. My dress pulled up and I tried to smooth it down. One of the policemen walked over and raised my dress as high as he could. They beat me until my body was hard, ’til I couldn’t bend my fingers or get up when they told me to. That’s how I got this blood clot in my eye – the sight’s nearly gone now. My kidney was injured from the blows they gave me on the back.”

Mrs Hamer was left in the cell, bleeding and battered, listening to the screams of Ann Powder, a fellow civil rights worker, who was also undergoing a severe beating in another cell. She overheard white policemen talking about throwing their bodies into the Big Black River where they would never be found.

from wiki

Released on June 12, she needed more than a month to recover. Though the incident had profound physical and psychological effects, Hamer returned to Mississippi to organize voter registration drives, including the “Freedom Ballot Campaign”, a mock election, in 1963, and the “Freedom Summer” initiative in 1964. She was known to the volunteers of Freedom Summer – most of whom were young, white, and from northern states – as a motherly figure who believed that the civil rights effort should be multi-racial in nature.

from wiki

1964 Democratic Convention
n the summer of 1964, the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party, or “Freedom Democrats” for short, was organized with the purpose of challenging Mississippi’s all-white and anti-civil rights delegation to the Democratic National Convention of that year as not representative of all Mississippians. Hamer was elected Vice-Chair.

The Freedom Democrats’ efforts drew national attention to the plight of African-Americans in Mississippi, and represented a challenge to President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was seeking the Democratic Party’s nomination for reelection; their success would mean that other Southern delegations, who were already leaning toward Republican challenger Barry Goldwater, would publicly break from the convention’s decision to nominate Johnson — meaning in turn that he would almost certainly lose those states’ electoral votes in the election. Hamer, singing her signature hymns, drew a great deal of attention from the media, enraging Johnson, who referred to her in speaking to his advisors as “that illiterate woman”.

Hamer was invited, along with the rest of the MFDP officers, to address the Convention’s Credentials Committee. She recounted the problems she had encountered in registration, and the ordeal of the jail in Winona, and, near tears, concluded:

“All of this is on account we want to register [sic], to become first-class citizens, and if the Freedom Democratic Party is not seated now, I question America. Is this America, the land of the free and the home of the brave where we have to sleep with our telephones off the hooks because our lives be threatened daily because we want to live as decent human beings – in America?” In Washington, D.C., President Johnson called an emergency press conference in an effort to divert press coverage away from Hamer’s testimony; but many television networks ran the speech unedited on their late news programs. The Credentials Committee received thousands of calls and letters in support of the Freedom Democrats.

Johnson then dispatched several trusted Democratic Party operatives to attempt to negotiate with the Freedom Democrats, including Senator Hubert Humphrey (who was campaigning for the Vice-Presidential nomination), Walter Mondale, Walter Reuther, and J. Edgar Hoover. They suggested a compromise which would give the MFDP two seats in exchange for other concessions, and secured the endorsement of Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for the plan. But when Humphrey outlined the compromise, saying that his position on the ticket was at stake, Hamer, invoking her Christian beliefs, sharply rebuked him:

“Do you mean to tell me that your position is more important than four hundred thousand black people’s lives? Senator Humphrey, I know lots of people in Mississippi who have lost their jobs trying to register to vote. I had to leave the plantation where I worked in Sunflower County, Mississippi. Now if you lose this job of Vice-President because you do what is right, because you help the MFDP, everything will be all right. God will take care of you. But if you take [the nomination] this way, why, you will never be able to do any good for civil rights, for poor people, for peace, or any of those things you talk about. Senator Humphrey, I’m going to pray to Jesus for you.”

Future negotiations were conducted without Hamer, and the compromise was modified such that the Convention would select the two delegates to be seated, for fear the MFDP would appoint Hamer. In the end, the MFDP rejected the compromise,but had changed the debate.

In 1965 President Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act.

from : http://womenshistory.about.com/od/civilrights/a/fannielou_hamer.htm

From 1968 to 1971, Fannie Lou Hamer was a member of the Democratic National Committee for Mississippi.

from http://www.awomanaweek.com/hamer.htm

In 1968, The Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party took on a new name – The Mississippi Loyalist Democratic Party, to reflect its broadened membership which now included sympathetic white members. When Fannie took her seat in Chicago at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, she took it to a standing ovation

from : http://womenshistory.about.com/od/civilrights/a/fannielou_hamer.htm

Her 1970 lawsuit, Hamer v. Sunflower County, demanded school desegregation. She ran unsuccessfully for the Mississippi state Senate in 1971, and successfully for delegate to the Democratic National Convention of 1972.

She also lectured extensively, and was known for a signature line she often used, “I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired.” She was known as a powerful speaker, and her singing voice lent another power to civil rights meetings.

Fannie Lou Hamer brought a Head Start program to her local community, to form a local Pig Bank cooperative (1968) with the help of the National Council of Negro Women, and later to found the Freedom Farm Cooperative (1969). She helped found the National Women’s Political Caucus in 1971, speaking for inclusion of racial issues in the feminist agenda.

In 1972 the Mississippi House of Representatives passed a resolution honoring her national and state activism, passing 116 to 0.

Suffering from breast cancer, diabetes, and heart problems, Fannie Lou Hamer died in Mississippi in 1977.

Her epitaph was her signature quote, :I;m sick and tired of being sick and tired.”

Writings about her life inclued her autobiography To Praise Our Bridges: An Autobiograpy in 1967. June Jordan published a biography of Fannie Lou Hamer in 1972, and Kay Mills published This Little Light of Mine: the Life of Fannie Lou Hamer in 1993.



1. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

Dow Closes Down More Than 486 Points [4:13 p.m.]


2. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

So, what’s the Dem blue dog count now? Up or down?

3. lucid - 5 November 2008

NYCO – last thread… I was making a sarcastic comment about the state of surveillance in this country… seems big brother is always watching.

4. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008


Emanuel accepts top slot in Obama WH
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:38 PM by Carrie Dann
Filed Under: 2008, Obama

From NBC’s Andrea Mitchell
A senior Obama advisor confirms to NBC News that Illinois Rep. Rahm Emanuel has accepted the job of Chief of Staff for the Obama White House.

*** UPDATE *** In an email to NBC News, Emanuel spokeswoman Sarah Feinberg denies the reporting that Emanuel has accepted the chief of staff job.

5. marisacat - 5 November 2008

hmm how will they blame Cindy THIS time for Charlie Brown losing – if he does… (she was specifically and nastily blamed for his loss in 2006 at Dkos)

In California, Tom McClintock (R) leads Charlie Brown (D) by just 451 votes. Absentees have yet to be counted.

Beloveds suffer!

I see that the count may be long for the Darcy Burner race up in Washington. Only 41% counted… hmmm but she is trailing.

6. marisacat - 5 November 2008

OBAMA: 63,685,576…
MCCAIN: 56,280,668…


7. marisacat - 5 November 2008


haven’t run into any breakdown… I did see that of the losing Dem candidates one was Cayazoux in Lousyanna… . A big xtian dn pro lifer.

Incumbent Dem Lampson in a suburb of Houston lost. Dems muscled otu a good guy Morrison back in 2003 and ran Lampson, who actually lived a district over.


8. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

7. Never heard of them. I was just wondering how much power the right will have beyond the numbers of the party splits.

9. Arcturus - 5 November 2008

reading tea leaves, fwiw:

The Lawyers Who May Run America

& for grins, & rebuttal to ‘satire is dead”:

Morning in Obamerica: the Promised Land?

10. marisacat - 5 November 2008

From Arcturus ABA link on lawyers… every time Deval’s anme gets floated I pray it is just the courtesy of friendship and nto a dmned thing more

Deval Patrick
Currently: Governor of Massachusetts
Law school: Harvard (1982)

Obama and Patrick aren’t just friends. They swim like a two-fish school. Both had fathers who deserted them as youngsters. Both are spellbinding orators and Harvard Law grads. And when Obama appropriated some of Patrick’s lines and manners into his speeches, the shared words and constructions were quickly acknowledged as the collaboration of friends.

Patrick clerked for a judge in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, worked as an attorney for the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund and served in the Clinton administration as assistant attorney general in the civil rights division. Patrick has an extensive history of rights-related litigation, but he’s also served as general counsel for two major corporations—Texaco and Coca-Cola. Although he is only halfway through his term as governor, many believe he would be one of Obama’s top choices for AG, and Patrick would be hard-pressed to decline if asked

11. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Well, I am sure wanton air strikes will be a thing of the past, in what, 3 months time. IIRC Karzai jsut begged the new president to do something about it…………………….

US Airstrike Reported to Hit Afghan Wedding

TO Link

Abdul Waheed Wafa and Mark McDonald, The New York Times:

“An airstrike by United States-led forces killed 40 civilians and wounded 28 others at a wedding party in Kandahar Province in southern Afghanistan, Afghan officials said Wednesday. The casualties included women and children, the officials said.”

12. marisacat - 5 November 2008

Shit! The YES on 8 people are crazy mad. But they won!

The calls for 2 hours on KGO are driving me nuts… And others cannot figure out how we went 61% for Ob (at best a Centrist) but the state supported the ban by 4 pts.

Amos Brown, a local SF black reverend and head f the NAACP here… campaigned and stumped with NO on 8 and yet his call in to the station gave me an enormous headache. So many curlicues… He blamed the vote and the turn out in the black community for Yes on 8 on the fact that the Yes side appropriated Ob’s image and words to support their side. Although he does not believe in marriage for gays, but did nto want to limit their civil rights. Ok…………………………..


13. NYCO - 5 November 2008

10. Am sorta glad that Dave Paterson is not an F.O.O.

Although he sent a very nice e-mail out today about Obama’s win.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 November 2008

Baltimore Police Taser and Jail Obama Supporters

I have to be brief because I’ve been awake now for almost 35 hours.
I was rounded up along with a dozen or so other people last night at
an impromptu Obama celebration in Baltimore and jailed. My crime?
Photographing the Baltimore cops as they loaded people into a paddy
wagon. The crowd was very well-behaved — mostly Hopkins students
overjoyed with the Obama victory. A phalanx of cops moved in and
started arbitrarily arresting people. They tased an undergraduate
for trying to get back into his building — after asking him to go
inside. It was insane. I started taking photos with my cell phone as
they lined up cuffed college kids, professors, etc. and a cop
approached me. “I’m a journalist,” I said (I freelance for Baltimore
City Paper) and he knocked the phone out of my hand onto the street.
“Write a nice long story about this,” he said, spun me around, and he
and another cop cuffed me with flexi-cuffs and loaded me into the
police van.

This was 2am last night (Tuesday). I served as an election judge all
day, and the last thing I expected was to spend the night in
Baltimore City lockup. Unreal.

The dangerous thugs the police decided to jail included me (an
election judge, writer, and employee of the Bloomberg School of
Public Health), TWO professors of anthropology at Hopkins, a
Baltimore City school teacher, and a variety of students. It was one
student’s birthday. The student who was tasered had bruises on his
wrists from the cuffs and a bruised eye. Truly a dangerous group of

We were released this morning — no charges were brought against us.
We’re getting together as a group to see what recourse we have. One
of the anthropology profs, Aaron Goodfellow, has contacted the ACLU
and I’m going to follow-up. There were lots of students with cell
phones, videocams, and cameras, so I’m hoping some of this was
caught on tape.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 November 2008

I have something new up: White Mens’ Exultation

16. NYCO - 5 November 2008

I’m sort of amazed at the rampant revisionism going on: Just because Obama won handily does not mean he ran a “flawless campaign.” Has everyone forgotten the whole spring and summer where he was unable to put Hillary away and “seal the deal”? Um… Rev. Wright, anyone? Greek columns in Denver? “BIDEN?!”

This is certainly water way under the bridge at this point, and I don’t feel like harping on it further myself, because the election is over with; but does the thrill of victory really make people that amnesiac? Good Lord. What is so intoxicating about the pheromones of power that kill the memory cells? So much for the reality-based community…

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 November 2008

16 – don’t forget the disappearing act when Palin was announced.

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 November 2008
19. marisacat - 5 November 2008

what a great face that cat has… sort of “wanna make something of it??? I cna stop making the house safe from rampaging elephants if you want to be unpleasant….”


Oh sure Obama/handlers made mistakes. But they also sold, for months, the ‘greatness of the campaign’ (to say nothing of the Manifest Destiny of the whole thing… LOL) as part of his resume. So it has to be “geatest ever”…

One of the funnier things, in ages, was the Brokaw hour with Charlie Rose last week.. when they over and over (oblivous to the recording devices on the set itself) said they had no clue what he would do about anything.

Oooo weeeeeeeeeeee. Strap on for the ride, is all I could think.

I pretty much accept that insurgent campaigns are ad hoc, gather in what you can and make a run for it, but… although painted as insurgent and in the presence of Hillary there was an element of that, it was far more cynical than insurgent.

Not that it really matters, however whomever it is gets there is how he gets there… [imo gonna be a while before another woman tries]

Can’t think who it was today on the Grand Rounds of TV, blithely said his finance and economy people mostly come out of the Hamilton Project at Brookings.

I am hoping that because people, not all but lots of people, are in such dire straits that the Dem party will do something for people. If only in their own interest of holding on to power.

20. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

21. liberalcatnip - 5 November 2008

The Onion (closing paragraph):

As we enter a new era of equality for all people, the election of Barack Obama will decidedly be a milestone in U.S. history, undeniable proof that Americans, when pushed to the very brink, are willing to look past outward appearances and judge a person by the quality of his character and strength of his record. So as long as that person is not a woman.

22. marisacat - 6 November 2008


t seems that no matter what Mr. Bush does, he is blamed for everything. He remains despised by the left while continuously disappointing the right.

Nobody likes him! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa


Other than that apparently there are marches in protest of 8 “all over the state”, but there certainly is a large one, est 5k, in LA, apparently on Highland Ave, a largish thoroughfare, and headed to Santa Monica…

Local NBC news seemed more interested in LA, but I imagine people are gathering here at City Hall.

23. marisacat - 6 November 2008


IMO women should with draw from all volunteer, unpaid work in protest of how in-the-public-eye women seeking elected office were treated this year. For a week, withdraw unpaid work..

It went way beyond the personalities or entities appearing to be at issue.

let the nation scrabble around to fill that void.

24. bayprairie - 6 November 2008

texas democratic voters have something in common with republicans.

District judges at the Harris County civil and criminal courthouses were shocked and somber a day after voters gave nearly every incumbent seeking re-election their walking papers.


The straight-party Democratic voting that ushered in a new batch of civil and criminal district judges in Harris County was not the biggest surprise. But the fact that four Republican judges survived Democratic challenges left courthouse observers to speculate how they did it.


The GOP judge with the highest percentage of votes was civil Judge Sharon McCally, whose opponent was Ashish Mahendru. Other Democrats who lost were Mekisha Murray, Andres Pereira and Goodwille Pierre.


25. marisacat - 6 November 2008


Smith lost in OR… Dems pick up another senate seat. (mandate!)

26. bayprairie - 6 November 2008

7. re: lampson

Lampson’s vote percentage trailed President-elect Barack Obama’s in Harris and Fort Bend counties.

By contrast, Olson’s (lampson opponent) share exceeded the percentage rolled up by Republican John McCain in the counties.

Ironically, the Obama campaign may have played a part in Lampson’s defeat.

Rice University political scientist Bob Stein said that as many as 100,000 voters in Texas’ Democratic primary in March did not vote in Tuesday’s election, cutting into Lampson’s hopes of riding Obama’s coattails.

a huge percentage of those stay-at-home democratic voters are hillary-supporting hispanics. democratic turnout in largely hispanic districts ran about 40% of registered voters. democratic turnout in white and black districts pushed over 60% in most cases.

guess they just said fuck it.

27. bayprairie - 6 November 2008

haha! there’s one comment in the thread to that piece.

Perhaps if Nick had voted against the FISA bill and the extension to warrantless wiretapping, he would have kept his seat. It’s not just about partisan politics, or he wouldn’t have had the chance he had. Its about the poor choices he made.


28. marisacat - 6 November 2008

FISA like issues will rise again. AND the American people needed someone to oppose the Bail Out. If I had my way, I’d hand the mess to Dorgon and Shelby. Who really did hold out against it.

Be interesting to see what comes…

29. marisacat - 6 November 2008

hmmm… what a laugh. We may not have to worry about Gavin making a run for the governor’s office. Not this go round nor the next… Bronstein, editor of the SF Chron/SFGATE.com is an asshole.. but so is Gavin. Think he hit the high points… at least. Pretty clear the paper will be supporting DiFi in the run…………….

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

re: 20 – he’s a disgrace all on his own, and he’s not a fucking monarch that we have to genuflect to.

that editorial page is such a joke. I don’t remember them worrying about how the President was treated when his name was Clinton. Weren’t they calling him a murderer in the WSJ editorial page?

31. NYCO - 6 November 2008

Re Hispanics, some background on the Democratic “takeover” of the NY Legislature… Now there are three or four Latino senators who are refusing to pledge fealty to the new Senate majority leader, Malcolm Smith. They are miffed that Latinos don’t get enough attention or important committee appointments. (Actually, in the world of the NY Legislature, this is a big deal because perks and even office equipment are distributed in feudal fashion, even among the majority party.)

What can I say? It’s a brand new day of overarching national harmony. Sabba sibby sabba, nooby abba nabba, le le lo lo.

32. marisacat - 6 November 2008

Errol Louis in the NYDaily News tells Obama to be bold and aggressive. hmm be interesting to see what Ob does do, once he gets in.

33. NYCO - 6 November 2008

Re Prop 8… well, trying to find a silver lining, maybe the upcoming release of Milk will help refocus the gay activist agenda.

34. marisacat - 6 November 2008


And Robert Gibbs, the senior strategist, auditioned successfully for any number of spots; he has apparently settled on being White House press secretary.

35. marisacat - 6 November 2008


probably not in numbers enough to matter but the other silver lining is that more and more people see the wisdom of civil unions for all and then if you wish a religious element, “marriage” in teh church… works in France… LOL

36. marisacat - 6 November 2008

hmm significant percentages of “down” around the globe… more than 5% just about everywhere and 8% on the Hong Kong.


[R]obert Gibbs, his spokesman during the campaign who is heavily tipped to become press secretary in the White House, said that realism would be a repeated feature of the 10-week transition period.

“It’s important that everybody understands that this is not going to happen overnight. There has to be a realistic expectation of what can happen and how quickly.”

Mr Gibbs added that the new administration would have to balance controlling expectations with staying true to its promises.

“We know expectations are high,” he told the New York Times. “But disappointment if we didn’t try to do the things that we said we were going to do would be far, far greater than anything else.” …

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008
38. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008
39. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Nation Finally Shitty Enough To Make Social Progress

Although polls going into the final weeks of October showed Sen. Obama in the lead, it remained unclear whether the failing economy, dilapidated housing market, crumbling national infrastructure, health care crisis, energy crisis, and five-year-long disastrous war in Iraq had made the nation crappy enough to rise above 300 years of racial prejudice and make lasting change.

“Today the American people have made their voices heard, and they have said, ‘Things are finally as terrible as we’re willing to tolerate,” said Obama, addressing a crowd of unemployed, uninsured, and debt-ridden supporters. “To elect a black man, in this country, and at this time—these last eight years must have really broken you.”

Added Obama, “It’s a great day for our nation.”

40. marisacat - 6 November 2008

The Onion may be one of the few outlets that can make satire, irony and humor work under a [faux] liberal regine.

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Lieberman Meets With Reid, Tries To Cling To Senate Chairmanship

Bolstered by a newly expanded majority, Harry Reid met with Joe Lieberman on Thursday to sketch out the conditions by which the Connecticut independent could continue to caucus with Senate Democrats. But Lieberman did not accept Reid’s initial offers, leaving his future in the caucus uncertain, and potentially setting off a campaign to pressure the Democratic steering committee to decide Lieberman’s fate.

Reid offered Lieberman a deal to step down as chairman of the homeland security committee but take over the reins of another subcommittee, likely overseeing economic or small business issues officials said.

Why is Reid offering ANYTHING?

“I completely agree with President-elect Obama that we must now unite to get our economy going again and to keep the American people safe. that is exactly what I intend to do with my colleagues here in the Senate in support of our new president, and those are the standards I will use in considering the options that I have before me,” Lieberman told reporters.

Likewise, Reid said in a written statement that negotiations will continue.

“Today Senator Lieberman and I had the first of what I expect to be several conversations. No decisions have been made,” he said. “While I understand that Senator Lieberman has voted with Democrats a majority of the time, his comments and actions have raised serious concerns among many in our Caucus. I expect there to be additional discussions in the days to come, and Senator Lieberman and I will speak to our Caucus in two weeks to discuss further steps.”

They really need to replace that worthless old fart.

42. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

the great thing about the Onion is that they seem to hold everybody in abject contempt.

43. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Susannah Breslin from the Reverse Cowgirl blog is guestblogging at Boing Boing:

Spitzer Won’t Be Charged In Call Girl Scandal

I asked my friend Debauchette, a blogger and ex-courtesan, for her thoughts on the news. She writes:

It’s definitely annoying.

I suppose my immediate response is that it seems like a pretty typical case of the john being released while the prostitute, or in this case, the agency, gets punished. It’s sad to think that Emperors would have been left alone if it hadn’t been for Spitzer. He’s the one they were after, and now he gets off while the agency owners get god knows what kind of punishment. Put this within the larger context that Spitzer saw prostitutes while actively seeking their imprisonment, and that Emperors was only attending to his requests, and the whole mess strikes me as a distortion of justice and a sickening waste of resources. But that’s nothing new.

44. marisacat - 6 November 2008

well Spitzer was the target, certainly from the moment he hit Albany if not before… but iirc (and it is kind fo muddled) there was also some mafia rumblings take down that Emperors was ensnared in. And, imo, Spitzer was unwise to co-mingle funds. Which in his convoluted method(s) of payment he did indeed do

Very messy story, most of it untold I would guess and yeah another Law n Order type prosaically caught with his pants down and other things at attention.

What a story.

45. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008


I am so fucking tired of black preachers denigrating the clear parallel between their own past civil rights struggles, in particular the effort to overturn miscegenation laws, and the current same-sex marriage brouhaha. When I hear an African-American divine explain that the Bible lays out a clear “definition of marriage,” I am so like, curse you, child of Ham.

46. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008
47. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Obama considers stars for Cabinet

President-elect Barack Obama is strongly considering Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to head the Environmental Protection Agency, a Cabinet post, Democratic officials told Politico.

Obama’s transition planners are weighing several other celebrity-level political stars for Cabinet posts, including retired general Colin L. Powell for secretary of Defense or Education, the officials said.

RFK Jr.’s cousin, Caroline Kennedy, who helped Obama lead his vice-presidential search, is being considered for U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, although some Obama officials doubt she would take it. Obama is indebted to the Kennedy family for a hearty endorsement at a crucial point in the Democratic primaries.

The selection of Kennedy would be a shrewd early move for the new presidential team. Obama advisers said the nomination would please both Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.).

It also would raise the profile of the EPA, which would help endear Obama to liberals who may be disappointed on other issues important to the Democratic left because of budget restrictions.

The EPA enforces clean air and clear water laws. Kennedy, an environmental lawyer and son of the late senator and attorney general Robert F. Kennedy, has long championed a cleaner water supply for New York City.

As an officer and attorney for the environmental-watch group Riverkeeper, Kennedy has taken on governments and companies for polluting the Hudson River and Long Island Sound.

Kennedy, a falconer and white-water rafter, also worked as an assistant District Attorney in New York City.

Kennedy gained Washington experience by fighting anti-environmental legislation in Congress in 1995 and 1996, when Newt Gingrich took over as House Speaker.

I think that would be a great choice.

48. marisacat - 6 November 2008


have to say… to send a clear message they BETTER DAMN well get that puppy from a shelter. Some nice mixed mutt.

One of my favorites tories was of the Mondales… they decided to get a puppy and go to a shelter. Bewfore they went they decided on a youngish male, smallish short hair dog ..

They came home with what they fell in love with, an older female collie mix who was BLIND.

So you know, go for it Obamas.


Big rally in LA against the Yes on 8 win. overhead shots on my local news. TONS f cops. Supposedly more protests in different locations tonight. So here they will gahter at City Hall again, I imagine…

49. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Letter from Leonard Peltier

Last night a change in this country took place that not too long ago many people said would never happen. An African-American was elected to the White House and by a major landslide, which gives him a mandate by the public to fulfill his promises. This landslide indicates the people have placed their hope with this man they call their president for a change in this country.

HOPE. There have been times if I can even recall what it really means to have hope that justice is right around the corner. I’ve been mislead and disappointed so many times that I would soon see justice and to have it denied upon a technicality in legal appeals. Or like what happened eight years ago. Everyone placed their hope and trust with a couple named Bill and Hillary, but we were betrayed at the last minute. I know that many of my friends, family and supporters were crushed. I began to feel the weight and pressure of a lifetime being unjustly imprisoned began to crowd me into a corner of my cell and then in my mind. But, it was this thing that has been our battle cry for so many years, “In the Spirit of Crazy Horse”. I remembered what he stood for and remained a warrior until his last breath. It is a strength that we stand upon when we are right. We were right to be in Oglala and we were right to be prepared to defend ourselves. What wasn’t right is that a jury never got to hear any of this testimony, and the rest of the trial was a product of the fabrication and then manipulation of the FBI. This spirit of Crazy Horse is a spirit of being in total resistance to the wrongs perpetuated towards your people, community, family and yourself. Some of us called it outrage, but that is just merely an emotion without resolving the issue. It is when we make a conscious choice to try and balance the wrongs in this society that we are being compelled by this spirit of resistance to stand in defense of the wronged.

That spirit cannot be conquered, and I refused to submit and give in when it appeared there may be no hope It was because of the letters of support and encouragement from so many people that I continued on for another eight years. And now people seem to feel there is a change blowing in the wind and that the election of Obama is a manifestation of that change.

50. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008

Cheers and Jeers Bill did a poll the other day on preference for breed of pup, and “mutt” outpolled everything else and then some.

Power to the People. Power to the People in the Streets! Power to the Puppies. Power to the Mutts!

(Oh, and power to Old Blind Dogs!)

51. marisacat - 6 November 2008

whoops! from the comments at IOZ:

I just read in Nixonland, how in 1964, the same election that brought Johnson to the White House also saw California vote in a anti-miscegenation law by 2-1. The Supremes didn’t decide that the anti-miscegenation laws were unconstitutional until 1967 w/ Loving v. VA. Short term memory loss maybe.

Nooo… we got rid of miscegenation laws via CA state SC in 1948. And polling shows it would have been years if the state had relied on the “kindness of strangers”, shall we say.

52. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008

In the spirit of Fannie Lou Hamer, here’s a diary by Deoliver that (deservedly) made it to top of the pops at DK on the day before the election: They Were Slaves in Virginia . Includes wonderful family photos, accounts from local archives, and a WPA-collected oral history of the diarist’s forebears.

53. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008

Apologies to the writer – her DK moniker is Deoliver47.

Profile says:

Feminist, Activist, former Young Lords Party and Black Panther Party member, applied cultural anthropologist

54. marisacat - 6 November 2008

the protestors are on Santa Monica Blvd as they headed for a big Mormon Temple there. Good idea.


Sean Hetherington, a 30-year-old personal trainer, was with boyfriend Aaron Hartzler, 33, as the crowd moved up Selby Avenue past the temple. Hetherington was carrying a sign saying, “YOU HAVE TWO WIVES I WANT ONE HUSBAND.” He said they were there to remind President-elect Obama of his commitment to gay people and other minorities. He wants federal recognition of gay rights and the right to marry.

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

54 – good for them!

found this somewhere: Revoke LDS Church 501(c)(3) Status

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also known as the “Mormon” or LDS Church) has gone too far in promoting the 2008 California Proposition 8, which would claims to amend the California state constitution to define marriage as one man and one woman in order to supersede a state supreme court opinion issued earlier this year. [Whether the proposition was a lawful amendment or a revision that cannot legally be made by a voter initiative remains an open question.]

The LDS church, through inciting its members to donate time and means to support Proposition 8(resulting in millions of dollars of cash contributions from its members and countless volunteer hours), and in-kind campaign contributions to a group that supports Proposition 8, has now made a substantial part of its activities attempting to influence legislation.

56. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008


Maybe the free speech special interest group will give the Onion a run for its money!

Chortle chortle.

57. marisacat - 6 November 2008


well so did the Catholic Church… and some preacher in the South land… Engler (among others). I had never heard of him but he has internal “mission” houses all over the state, one here in SF, peopled with young devotees… and one fo the issues they took on was 8.


Drop the Bible! Drop it on your big toe!


58. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008

Special to Madman – David Byrne sold out at the Egg two months ago, I discovered in a tentative phone call on concert day, but the local reviews were pretty grand and.

“So you wake up this morning, and it’s not the same as it was yesterday,” David Byrne stated simply at the start of his concert at The Egg the day after the presidential election.

No, it’s not the same as it ever was.

The former head Talking Head and his magnificent, multi-culti, international, 10-piece ensemble — dressed all in white from head-to-toe — was clearly in a jubilant mood on Wednesday night, and so was the sold-out crowd, who roared back their approval. This wasn’t just a concert; it was a celebration, full of energy, hope and joy.

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

58 – oh, I’m sorry you couldn’t see him.

60. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

It would have been a very good concert indeed strictly from a musical perspective, but Byrne also added three dancers for this tour, and their movement and spirit raised the performance to greatness. The kinetic threesome — Lily Baldwin, Natalie Kuhn and Steven Reker – executed inspired, imaginative choreography that was woven into and through the musical performance, not merely tacked on. During “I Zimbra” they danced with the back-up singers’ microphones, moving them around the stage, as they led the singers. During “Houses in Motion,” they caught Byrne as he fell backwards into their arms. And during the new “Life Is Long” they performed in swivel chairs on wheels, along with Byrne.

I loved the dancers too … they were fantastic.

61. Intermittent Bystander - 6 November 2008

Whoa – the Daily Show goes to town on Propositions tonight!

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008
63. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Can Obama Stop the Bush Administration’s Final Economic Heist?

The question now is whether Obama will have the courage to take the ideas that won him this election and turn them into policy. Or, alternately, whether he will use the financial crisis to rationalize a move to what pundits call “the middle” (if there is one thing this election has proved, it is that the real middle is far to the left of its previously advertised address). Predictably, Obama is already coming under enormous pressure to break his election promises, particularly those relating to raising taxes on the wealthy and imposing real environmental regulations on polluters. All day on the business networks, we hear that, in light of the economic crisis, corporations need lower taxes, and fewer regulations — in other words, more of the same.

The new president’s only hope of resisting this campaign being waged by the elites is if the remarkable grassroots movement that carried him to victory can somehow stay energized, networked, mobilized — and most of all, critical. Now that the election has been won, this movement’s new missions should be clear: loudly holding Obama to his campaign promises, and letting the Democrats know that there will be consequences for betrayal.

The first order of business — and one that cannot wait until inauguration — must be halting the robbery-in-progress known as the “economic bailout.” I have spent the past month examining the loopholes and conflicts of interest embedded in the U.S. Treasury Department’s plans. The results of that research can be found in a just published feature article in Rolling Stone, The Bailout Profiteers, as well as my most recent Nation column, Bush’s Final Pillage.

Both these pieces argue that the $700-billion “rescue plan” should be regarded as the Bush Administration’s final heist. Not only does it transfer billions of dollars of public wealth into the hands of politically connected corporations (a Bush specialty), but it passes on such an enormous debt burden to the next administration that it will make real investments in green infrastructure and universal health care close to impossible. If this final looting is not stopped (and yes, there is still time), we can forget about Obama making good on the more progressive aspects of his campaign platform, let alone the hope that he will offer the country some kind of grand Green New Deal.

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Red Sex, Blue Sex
Why do so many evangelical teen-agers become pregnant?

During the campaign, the media has largely respected calls to treat Bristol Palin’s pregnancy as a private matter. But the reactions to it have exposed a cultural rift that mirrors America’s dominant political divide. Social liberals in the country’s “blue states” tend to support sex education and are not particularly troubled by the idea that many teen-agers have sex before marriage, but would regard a teen-age daughter’s pregnancy as devastating news. And the social conservatives in “red states” generally advocate abstinence-only education and denounce sex before marriage, but are relatively unruffled if a teen-ager becomes pregnant, as long as she doesn’t choose to have an abortion.

A handful of social scientists and family-law scholars have recently begun looking closely at this split. Last year, Mark Regnerus, a sociologist at the University of Texas at Austin, published a startling book called “Forbidden Fruit: Sex and Religion in the Lives of American Teenagers,” and he is working on a follow-up that includes a section titled “Red Sex, Blue Sex.” His findings are drawn from a national survey that Regnerus and his colleagues conducted of some thirty-four hundred thirteen-to-seventeen-year-olds, and from a comprehensive government study of adolescent health known as Add Health. Regnerus argues that religion is a good indicator of attitudes toward sex, but a poor one of sexual behavior, and that this gap is especially wide among teen-agers who identify themselves as evangelical. The vast majority of white evangelical adolescents—seventy-four per cent—say that they believe in abstaining from sex before marriage. (Only half of mainline Protestants, and a quarter of Jews, say that they believe in abstinence.) Moreover, among the major religious groups, evangelical virgins are the least likely to anticipate that sex will be pleasurable, and the most likely to believe that having sex will cause their partners to lose respect for them. (Jews most often cite pleasure as a reason to have sex, and say that an unplanned pregnancy would be an embarrassment.) But, according to Add Health data, evangelical teen-agers are more sexually active than Mormons, mainline Protestants, and Jews. On average, white evangelical Protestants make their “sexual début”—to use the festive term of social-science researchers—shortly after turning sixteen. Among major religious groups, only black Protestants begin having sex earlier.

The gulf between sexual belief and sexual behavior becomes apparent, too, when you look at the outcomes of abstinence-pledge movements. Nationwide, according to a 2001 estimate, some two and a half million people have taken a pledge to remain celibate until marriage. Usually, they do so under the auspices of movements such as True Love Waits or the Silver Ring Thing. Sometimes, they make their vows at big rallies featuring Christian pop stars and laser light shows, or at purity balls, where girls in frothy dresses exchange rings with their fathers, who vow to help them remain virgins until the day they marry. More than half of those who take such pledges—which, unlike abstinence-only classes in public schools, are explicitly Christian—end up having sex before marriage, and not usually with their future spouse. The movement is not the complete washout its critics portray it as: pledgers delay sex eighteen months longer than non-pledgers, and have fewer partners. Yet, according to the sociologists Peter Bearman, of Columbia University, and Hannah Brückner, of Yale, communities with high rates of pledging also have high rates of S.T.D.s. This could be because more teens pledge in communities where they perceive more danger from sex (in which case the pledge is doing some good); or it could be because fewer people in these communities use condoms when they break the pledge.

Bearman and Brückner have also identified a peculiar dilemma: in some schools, if too many teens pledge, the effort basically collapses. Pledgers apparently gather strength from the sense that they are an embattled minority; once their numbers exceed thirty per cent, and proclaimed chastity becomes the norm, that special identity is lost. With such a fragile formula, it’s hard to imagine how educators can ever get it right: once the self-proclaimed virgin clique hits the thirty-one-per-cent mark, suddenly it’s Sodom and Gomorrah.

65. marisacat - 6 November 2008

well………………………. it has to be asked. How much of the long long long long list of gimmees that he dished out day after day after day after day… did they ever plan to work on at all?

Months ago I posted commentary from both Senate and House members that this and that would be way down the list, health care even, as they would be “busy” wiht the war.

So now it is just “busy with the economy”.

I am not a fan of Evan Thomas particularly, but even that script writer, on Charlie Rose last night with Meacham, said Obama had shown no real evidence of courage in the race. And that he is very “risk averse”.

I dunno.. maybe Con Law prof was a good spot, part time and part time state lege.

Who knows. Maybe we see glimmers of something else, something more, tomorrow.

66. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

what one thing will they actually pass … I’m betting on improved rail. They can sell is as being able to be used to move troops, for environmental reasons, to free up freight rail by moving passengers off those lines and holding down on the cost of trucking goods to struggling retail. Creates jobs for many years etc.

Healthcare will only be tweaking of how much money private insurance makes. The wars won’t end.

They’ll build modern rail, ESPECIALLY out of Chicago (oooo, and tie it to getting the Olympics) and along the west coast.

That’s my prediction … I’m probably wrong.

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood

More than a thousand gay-rights activists gathered Thursday afternoon outside the Mormon temple in Westwood to protest the role Mormons played in passing Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California.

It was the latest in an escalating campaign directed against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for its role in marshalling millions of dollars in contributions from its members for the successful campaign to take away same-sex marriage rights.

Jeff Flint, strategist for Yes on 8, called the ad “despicable” and said it “crossed every line of decency.”

“I am appalled at the level of Mormon-bashing that went on during the Proposition 8 campaign and continues to this day,” he said. “If this activity were directed against any other church, if someone put up a website that targeted Jews or Catholics in a similar fashion for the mere act of participating in a political campaign, it would be widely and rightfully condemned.”

Members and leaders of the Catholic Church and other Christian churches were also heavily involved in the campaign to pass Proposition 8. The Knights of Columbus, which is tied to the Catholic Church, gave $1 million, and several evangelical groups gave millions more. But they have not come under the same kind of attack.

Leaders of the No-on-8 campaign said they did not believe they were engaged in Mormon-bashing. “This is not about religion,” said Jacobs. “This is about a church that put itself in the middle of politics.”

Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said she had grown up in the Mormon Church and thought it was “very disappointing what the church has done and the alliances they have made with churches that don’t even like them and have called the church a cult.”

Church officials made few public statements during the campaign. On Thursday, they issued a statement asking for “a spirit of mutual respect and civility.” (they really are fucking shameless)

“The Church acknolwedges that such an emotionally charged issue concerning the most personal and cherished aspects of life — family and marriage — stirs fervent and deep feelings,” church spokeswoman Kim Farah wrote in an e-mail. “No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information.” She did not elaborate. (but it’s okay to deny people equal rights because of who they are … really, who ARE these people?)

Outside the Los Angeles temple Thursday, dozens of protestors screamed “Bigots” and “Shame on You” at half a dozen men in button-down shirts and ties who looked out at the demonstration from behind the temple’s closed gates.

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 6 November 2008

David Loder, 40, a business manager from Corona and a member of the Mormon church, heard about the protest on the radio. He said he was saddened by the anger directed against the church. Loder said he had not given money to the Yes-on-8 campaign because finances are tight raising five daughters, but he did put a sign in his front yard. It was vandalized, he said.

“As a member of the LDS church we have known (and still do) the feeling of being ridiculed and mistreated because of our faith,” he said.

The sheer lack of empathy just stuns me.

69. marisacat - 6 November 2008

They can sell is as being able to be used to move troops

well that def as the interstate freeway system was built under National Security in the post war. Same as Paris’ Haussman lay out of boulevards. Move the troops in to quell…………………

I def expect some things to be done. No question.

We voted in the high speed rail out here, slim numbers tho. And my read the set up is a murky mess.. but I gritted my teeth and voted YES as so many Dem moutpieces were talking it down.

I am a little worried as when Boxer was here about a week before election talking about the 150 billion infrastructure proposals – and I think they tie in with a lot of the Green Promises as well, she was REALLY lackluster. Leaden. hmm … then on the Friday roundup (right before election) on PBS/KQED two reporters flatly said she sounded as tho she had no faith in ever seeing it.

I am sick to death of the gastric pains the Dems encounter when it come to ”shove”.

I also wonder what her/Boxer plans are for ’10, when she is up again. Rumbles that Arnold wants her seat. And DiFi is too close to Arnold (imo). Then again DiFi wants the governor seat…

May they congeal.

70. marisacat - 6 November 2008

sorry Madman… Just saw the Red Blue Sex Debut from the New Yorker.. and got it out of Moderation…

71. marisacat - 6 November 2008

fwiw .. some names for the 1:30 PM ET Economics Hoo Hoo meeting today…

At 1:30 ET today, President-elect Obama and Vice President-elect Biden will meet with their economic transition team. Members of this team will be incorporated into next week’s White House economic summit. The team also likely includes the eventual Treasury Secretary…. hmm…

72. marisacat - 7 November 2008

So long as he is not gay, that is all that matters. The next pope could come from ……………………….Africa!

So says Ratz. Or Wilton Gregory of Atlanta… speaking ex cathedra. Or maybe the Holy Ghost dropped a note off…

Somebody talked.


The white Catholics up here, YES on 8 activists, are on teh news tonight … screaming about…………wait.. sit down… about INTOLERANCE.

73. bayprairie - 7 November 2008

Church officials made few public statements during the campaign. On Thursday, they issued a statement asking for “a spirit of mutual respect and civility.”


The white Catholics up here, YES on 8 activists, are on teh news tonight … screaming about…………wait.. sit down… about INTOLERANCE.

actions have consequences. fuck with people’s lives people get pissed off. baby jesus said it best. i think its in the book of mormon.

“reap what you sow, you bastards. tough shit.”

and while i’m on the subject. can we get the deluge of all-male black preachers off the toob? i really hope i don’t have to deal with that for the next forty days and nights. are there any women ministers in the black church at all? not even a token?

yeah i thought not. jerks.

74. marisacat - 7 November 2008

yah… that was one of the problems with Ob ascendance (this is not an endorsement of McC). In part it is accompanied by the exultation that there is nothing but Black Reverends, the penultimate reach of the narrow box they put Martin in… and fake solemnity… as of course people are beheaded for their way of life.

We will be TD Jakesed to death. We are TD Jakesed to death.

There are a few women running around… I land on them from time to time as I search for different things… There was a Rev Irene who was saying some interesting things about Wright… black lesbian woman reverend…

They seem pretty lashed to the system tho, which is PATRIARCHY — and then some. No nooooz there. I think what there is really is Wives Of The Church… The Official Ministerial Consort.


75. marisacat - 7 November 2008

Someone needs to bring up that Coretta came out for full on, no stopping at Go, no going to jail Gay Marriage before she died.

I don’t know if John Lewis has bothered to repeat his op piece in the AJ-C from 2003 in support of gay marriage. When he thought Howard would go all the way and maybe he had a chance at VPessa. Not sure he would complicate the Divine One’s life by repeating that. He too is sold on solemnity and endless evocation of the past. Fine and good, but I see it a s wall of self protection. A shroud of endlessly finer than thou…

Maybe instead of droning on about Civil Rights somebody could mention BAYARD RUSTIN someday…


76. marisacat - 7 November 2008

neue threat……………………………


………………………. 8) ……………………….

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