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Protest… 7 November 2008

Posted by marisacat in Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Lie Down Fall Down Dems, Other than LDFD Dems, Sex / Reproductive Health, WAR!.
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Police try to break up a confrontation between pro and anti-Proposition 8 sides in front of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that drew hundreds of people. [November 6, 2008 RickLoomis/LAT]

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Jaime Meriwether cries at the fence of the Mormon temple in Westwood. She said she got a bloody nose in a confrontation with Proposition 8 supporters during a rally. [November 6, 2008 Loomis/LAT]

From the SF Gate report on the march… (the LAT report was linked last thread and they did not update):

[T]he temple protest was organized by the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center. Its chief executive, Lorri Jean, announced a Web-based effort dubbed InvalidateProp8.org to raise money to fight the constitutional amendment and send postcards to the Mormon church president.

Police estimated the protest drew 2,500 people. The event did not have a permit or approved march route.

Demonstrators spilled into the lanes of Santa Monica Boulevard, and then marched around the sprawling temple complex before taking off through the heavily traveled streets of Westwood and, as night fell, toward Beverly Hills.   […]

Caught on the local evening news that there will be a protest in SLC Friday evening, at the big temple.  Main temple… LOL where ever the money changers are.  Maybe Ob could just very very slightly wag his ears as a signal… hey! TO BOTH SIDES!   No need to besmirch himself with a choice.  And we know he has big, really big, stuff to do.  With the big money men…

AP:

[G]ay-marriage proponents filed three court challenges Wednesday against the new ban. The lawsuits raise a rare legal argument: that the ballot measure was actually a dramatic revision of the California Constitution rather than a simple amendment. A constitutional revision must first pass the Legislature before going to the voters.

“Where do you draw the line between ‘revision’ and ‘an amendment’ when those are words in conversation we would use interchangeably?” asked Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the University of California, Irvine law school. “It’s a highly technical legal question in a highly charged political atmosphere.”

Andrew Pugno, attorney for the coalition of religious and social conservative groups that sponsored the amendment, called the lawsuits “frivolous and regrettable.”

“It is time that the opponents of traditional marriage respect the voters’ decision,” he said.

The high court has not said when it will act. State officials said the ban on gay marriage took effect the morning after the election.

“We don’t consider it a ‘Hail Mary’ at all,” said Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights. “You simply can’t so something like this — take away a fundamental right at the ballot.”  […]

Other than that all I can think of is:

Hey hey, LDS: How many marriages did you stop today?

And, you know… ditto to the Catholics.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I just landed on this interesting report in TIME which manages to indicate, several times, that Blacks in both CA and FL helped put the bans in place (which is accurate)… but also manages not to mention the Mormon church intervention in the CA process, and from outside the state… nor that the Mormon Church and the Catholic Church colluded (which they may do, but hey, I can use the word “icky” too!  I find it icky, maybe double icky!  LOL…)

They do manage to mention a poor Mormon couple with 5 children, who dipped into their private savings to give 50K to the Yes on 8.  Yes! they feared for their children and the Gay Agenda!   TIME seemed to think it was a particularly California disease.  Oh Good. Maybe I meant, Oh God… Luv the propaganda!

Except for the Mormon couple in the Sacramento area, neither Church nor any of the small churches, faith rallies and prayer circles for Yes on 8 are mentioned.

Helloooooooooooo???

At the close of the article they seem to assign Gov. Paterson of NYS the job of bringing Blacks around to being more amenable to gay marriage.

A very odd report.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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Comments»

1. NYCO - 7 November 2008

The Time article fails to note that Democratic control of the NYS Legislature is still up in the air, thanks to the defection of four Latino senators, some of them very conservative on gay issues. So, don’t break out the party hats just yet. Petulant party-switching is a time-honored NY pastime.

Also, even the staunchest pro-gay-marriage legislators are unwilling to overshadow Paterson’s economic agenda at this point. They are in “wait” mode.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

“It is time that the opponents of traditional marriage respect the voters’ decision,” he said.

How many times do the religious nuts keep trying to pass parental notification, or various flavors of banning abortion?

I notice in those cases the voters’ speaking doesn’t matter for shit. Fuck them, and good on the gay community for keeping the heat on the mormons. Too bad they aren’t doing the same to the fucking catholics.

3. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Protest outside Salt Lake Temple planned

If Jacob Whipple gets what he’s hoping for, at least 1,000 Utahns will turn out Friday night to protest the involvement of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in helping pass Proposition 8, a California ballot measure that effectively killed, at least for now, same-sex marriages in that state.

The call for people to gather at 6 p.m. at North Temple and State Street in Salt Lake City is to show solidarity with those protesting in California, Whipple explained. Among those hitting the streets were about 3,000 who gathered Thursday afternoon outside the LDS Temple in Westwood, a neighborhood of Los Angeles, bearing signs including one featuring a photo of a gay couple with the words,”Why is this joy and love so scary,” The Los Angeles Times reported.

“We want to show we share their pain, and here, at the heart of the church, we want to stab it,” said Whipple, of Salt Lake City.

The 29-year-old former LDS Church member, who served a mission in Argentina, was helping to get the word out late Thursday about the Utah protest. He said he and others were seeking support through e-mails, text messages, social networking Web pages and old-fashioned phone calls.

Valerie Larabee, executive director of the Utah Pride Center, said her organization would “absolutely” be there to stand with others.

Agree that it’s time for equal heat on the RCC. Don’t y’all have any fancy cathedrals out there to mass at, too?

4. NYCO - 7 November 2008

I’m kind of liking this protest idea…

You Can Forget My Taxes

Link it to the shitty California economy and I think they’ve got some leverage!

Speaking of economy… didja ever think we’d see a day when a California Republican (Ahnuld) calls for a tax hike, while a New York Democrat (Paterson) cuts services and swears “No new taxes”?

Oh, and the president-elect is black. Freaky times!

5. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Mormons’ $22M Backing of Prop. 8 Incites Critics

A married lesbian couple answer a knock at the door and find two Mormons standing on their front porch.

“We’re here to take away your rights,” the Mormons announce, before shoving their way into the house, stripping the wedding rings off the womens’ fingers, and ransacking their belongings.

“You can’t do this!” one of the women cries, to which one of the Mormons answers with a low, evil chuckle.

“We have rights!” they protest as the Mormons rip their marriage license in half.

“Not if we can help it,” the Mormons reply.

Strolling out of the women’s house, the Mormons jauntily trade remarks: “That was too easy,” says one.

“What should we ban next?” the other one asks.

That’s a basic description of a TV ad produced by activists Dante and David Atkins and paid for by Courage Campaign Issues Committee to warn California voters that a yes vote for the anti-gay ballot initiative Proposition 8 is, in effect, a vote for a church-sponsored re-writing of California’s government.

Surprised the spoon-and-spider brothers’ ad is getting press . . . saw it at DK a few days ago and thought it looked like a middle-school AV project.

6. NYCO - 7 November 2008

BTW, as long as we’re on this subject, I wonder what all your thoughts are on the possibility that resentment against gay rights issues might be partially connected to a perception that “the gays” are mostly upper-middle-class or affluent. Hollywood stars, arts careers, tech careers, etc.

I get the sense that gay activists don’t understand that might be an issue that is harming them (false though it may be).

Of course, it’s ridiculous because homosexuality is not a “class thing” – but on the other hand, working-class gay people are probably still socialized to hide themselves.

I like Melissa Etheridge’s “no taxes” thing because, instead of trying to win a cultural war, or to make their opponents look stupid or intolerant, this is really about exercising bare knuckles economic power.

7. NYCO - 7 November 2008

5. This seems a misguided ad. Prop 8 was passed by a vote. That ad just seems disingenuous and vituperative. The fact is that Prop 8 proponents made their case and opponents failed to make THEIR case to enough people. There’s no use screaming “NO FAIR!” about a vote that you LOST. Protesting the outcome of a VOTE seems a little pathetic… although protesting in favor of an issue is very appropriate, so I don’t mean to condemn the street protests at all.

(very, very glad I don’t live in a state where everything is decided via propositions… I think the last Prop we had to vote on was whether to give people in a tiny Adirondack village the right to dig new water wells.)

I mean, there are court avenues for arguing the law would be unconstitutional, but honestly, can you imagine the civil rights movement behaving like this? I think that is part of the problem with the current guard of gay activists: they think it’s all about “getting out the message.” They’ve been sucked into the image game and it’s hurting them.

8. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

3 – Go Melissa!

Church view on same-sex marriage prevails; other ballot efforts fail

WASHINGTON (CNS) — In voting on 2008 ballot questions across the country, the Catholic Church’s view against same-sex marriage prevailed, but most Catholic efforts to influence voting related to abortion, assisted suicide, embryonic stem-cell research and gambling failed.

::snip::

Cardinal Roger M. Mahony of Los Angeles thanked the Catholic community for the passage of Proposition 8 in a Nov. 5 statement. He said the success also was the result of “an unprecedented coalition of many faith communities and other citizens who understood the importance of maintaining the bedrock institution of marriage as has been lived out since recorded history.”

California is one of three states where same-sex marriage is currently allowed, and the California bishops had said the amendment would affirm “the historic, logical and reasonable definition of marriage” without removing any benefits from other contractual arrangements such as civil unions or domestic partnerships.

On a range of other issues, however, voters turned down the church-supported position on ballot questions.

In Connecticut, where the Supreme Court ruled Oct. 10 that the state’s ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional, 59 percent of voters turned down an effort to call for a constitutional convention, where the question could have been reconsidered. The state’s Catholic bishops had urged a vote in favor of the convention.

9. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

5 – Interesting thought. Is there a Josephine the Plumber in the house?

10. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

This seems a misguided ad. Prop 8 was passed by a vote. That ad just seems disingenuous and vituperative.

Agree the ad was awful – stupid, childish, AND “victimy” – but it was produced before the vote. No idea how many people saw it, but doubt it did the cause any favors. . .

As Marisacat has been asking, why not show SHINY, HAPPY wedding parties instead? SHAME the bigots with rose petals and rice.

11. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

October job losses worse than feared

The Labor Department said the national unemployment rate shot up to 6.5 percent from 6.1 percent in September, the highest since March 1994.

12. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Demise of Same-Sex Weddings Disheartens Businesses

Even as opponents of the measure officially conceded defeat on Thursday, California business owners — particularly those in the marriage business — were trying to determine how many wedding cakes would now go unsold and how many tuxedos unrented.

::snip::

The approval of Proposition 8 comes even as the state is suffering through another bout of bad economic news. On Thursday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who opposed Proposition 8, in part on economic grounds, announced that the state’s budget deficit had already swelled to $11.2 billion for the coming year, and called the Legislature back into session and proposed higher taxes to address the budget problems.

David Paisley, a San Francisco-based marketing executive with a specialty in gay tourism, said California had four of the nation’s top 10 destinations for gay travelers: San Francisco, Palm Springs, Los Angeles and San Diego.

Mr. Paisley said that it was too early to speculate on the exact economic impact of Proposition 8, but that some public relations damage might have already been done.

“California has always been perceived on the vanguard of gay-friendly destinations,” he said. “Well, when a ballot measure passes says it’s not, it’s terrible publicity for gay and lesbian tourism.”

::snip::

In June, the Williams Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles, which studies sexual orientation and the law, estimated that legalizing same-sex ceremonies in the state would result in about $63.8 million in government tax and fee revenue over three years.

13. wu ming - 7 November 2008

to my ears, the fixation on the black vote (which is pretty small in CA anyways) strikes me as sounding very similar to the post-04 scapegoating of gays and pro-choice women as the reason dems lost.

blame anyone but white conservatives or the ineffectual campaign consultants, really. that it sets the left at each others’ throats is an added bonus, i guess.

14. marisacat - 7 November 2008

W/R/T the ad in question, I only read about it very close to the election day.. and never saw it. I also never read what markets it played in… We were deluged with Yes on 8 ads here… and their initial ad began weeks before NO had an ad up. Their first ad was the one that used audio and slow mo film of Gavin…

****

13

wu ming

Not that I am pleased by the rhetoric from elements of the black community (it is infuriating frankly) but media immediately seized on that number, the 70% voting YES, from exit polls. And it has been heavily pushed. the TIME article was just the most egregious…

I am not sure how it breaks out to share of electorate but we are 6% black pop. and somwhere north of 30% (I read differing numbers) for Latino pop. So obviously I doubt the black vote on YES was anywhere near the influence of [white] Mormon interference and [white] Catholic, Knights of Columbus Archbishop Mahoney of Los Angeles… etc inlluence, money and volunteers… amd god knows we have evangelicals of all colors… white brown black asian etc. Comcast used to have a channel that fed in feeds from CA churches, evangelical, pentecostal and some of the black churches. I would drift over occasionally and listen til I could nto take it any more…. NOT a pretty picture. IMO.

And you know we need to protect the chilluns.

BTW, in a bleary half awake state, I caught the opening 15 minutes of the fucking dumb show The View… and boy did they push lies. About priests and ministers being arrested for preaching against gays if this ban were rescinded. Apparently no one had a clue nor did the show try to get a FACT… lots of messy mixed messages about teaching gay marriage as well.

Good work ladies. Whoopi who is so predictable seemed as confused as the conservatives. Barbara too (she raised it). Sherry and Elisabeth won those rounds…

Hell they [priests and ministers] preach against all sorts of things… seem pretty ascendant.

15. marisacat - 7 November 2008

gah this comment in the Guardian on the Prop 8 outcome manages to push the black vote again, and links to a CNN report on the vote breakdown as well that likely is pushing the reaction (did nto get to follow the link yet),… but again with NO MENTION of the white white white big big big Big Church involvement.

Really, this is a skewed preception.

16. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

14. I caught the opening 15 minutes of the fucking dumb show The View… and boy did they push lies. About priests and ministers being arrested for preaching against gays if this ban were rescinded. Apparently no one had a clue nor did the show try to get a FACT… lots of messy mixed messages about teaching gay marriage as well.

I caught that too – and the sense that they were treating what happened as a very fragile topic which, I thought, was bizarre.

I think The Moment for me was when Sherry said something akin to believing in peoples’ rights BUT she’s a Christian. And that is exactly the problem. You’re supposed to be a citizen first. Your religion does not trump that. What’s next? A proposition reviving slavery? They just don’t get it.

17. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

AP (quoting a noneemoose Lieberman aide) sez Joe (“the Schlemiel”) has been playing footie with Mitch McConnell about caucusing with the GOP.

Ob at the podium for first post-election press confab now.

18. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

What happened to Obamalama’s eye?

19. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

That sure sounded like a whole lotta nothing.

20. marisacat - 7 November 2008

yeah The View just died, fell to earth and decomposed in a xtian, ignorant (some christian, all ignorant) swwoon.

As for ob’s eye.. not sure. maybe from fatigue a facial pad sorta collapsed? Under the left eye… an argument for makeup!

21. marisacat - 7 November 2008

As for Liebeman… one, he is a core aspect of the Dem party, for all their chit chat otherwise. AND I think they are disinclined to offend anyone in Israel… or of his bloc of support here. Then again, they have Rahm, son of an Irgun fighter. And I never bought that he did some sort of vehicular anti rust application (ie, maintenance) work while wtih the IDF. Oh yeah.. hmm mmm.

oh soft ball question. Let DC area shelters know what you need in a dog (poodle mix with poodle hair type). They can call you.

22. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

18 – Zit? Pre-emptive strike by prezident-hatin’ pretzels? Paper-cut from all the resumes currently thrust in his face?

19 – Tweety found something to chew on. ::Rushes to television set to mute::

The BBC had this about the puppy question, this morning:

Reports suggest that because daughter Malia has allergies, the Obamas may be considering a “hypoallergenic” breed that sheds less hair. Options could include a labradoodle – a cross between a Labrador and a poodle – a schnoodle (schnauzer and poodle), or a cockapoo (cocker spaniel and poodle).

Malia, however, is rumoured to favour a goldendoodle – a poodle crossed with a golden retriever.

But Tamar Geller, a California-based celebrity dog “life coach” who trained Oprah Winfrey’s puppies, is confident the Obamas will choose a rescue dog.

She says staff at her shelter programme, Another Chance For Love, are already in talks with people in the Obama camp about a goldendoodle that needs a home.

“He is a gorgeous dog,” she told the BBC News website. “He is white with some golden highlights, as if he went to the hairdresser, a really happy smile, sweet but not hyper.

“I think he is going to make a perfect First Dog but we will see – the family has to make the decision.”

The priority, she says, is that the pet the Obamas pick is comfortable with children and impeccably behaved at all times, particularly with visitors.

“Can you imagine the dog jumping on Putin, or lifting his leg and peeing on the curtains, or nipping at Gordon Brown?” she says.

“We don’t want that to happen, so the dog has to be very well mannered.

23. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Goldendoodle rumor in moderation.

BBC link.

24. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Today’s helpful housekeeping tip comes from the state of Georgia:

When removing cobwebs from your home’s eaves, don’t use a blowtorch.

25. marisacat - 7 November 2008

I snagged this from Sully, of course he preaches against any harsh reaction. What a fucking putz.

[S]o what now? Dale Carpenter is probably right that there won’t be same-sex marriage in California for at least a decade. The action will have to shift to other states, probably New York and some New England states, though it would be nice to see an upper Midwest or Pacific Northwest state with a progressive bent added to the list, to de-regionalize it. Overall, the slog will now be even slower now that California’s influence won’t be on the marriage-rights side for a while (it was never going to be fast, given all the anti-marriage amendments across the states). …

And this too:

[F]irst, proponents of same-sex marriage rights have a right to feel an acute sense of an opportunity just missed. A “no” vote on Prop. 8 would have been immensely influential in solidifying marriage rights in the United States, given the sheer size of California. The near-final result is not particularly close as a percentage matter (52.5 to 47.5), but a swing of 250,000 votes would have changed the result. Not exactly a nail-biter but close enough to regret.

Should proponents have held off on suing, or Mayor Newsom refrained from granting the licenses? After all, the California legislature had twice passed bills granting marriage rights; in one sense, we were a Democratic governor away from winning, and winning in a way that would have blunted any judicial tyranny argument. [we have no way of being certain that a Democratic governor, much less the PARTY, would have the courage to do anything… —Mcat] But hindsight is always 20-20, and I wouldn’t presume to criticize the politicians and plaintiffs and lawyers who made the decision to go. (Indeed, while I don’t have the chronology handy, it might have been Mayor Newsom’s action that prompted the legislature to act.) And every day of delay is a day that matters to the men and women involved: think of Del Martin, who lived to marry her partner of over 50 years only because of the court decision that Prop. 8 overturned. …

Reminded of the New Yorker profile of MO… and her commentary to gays that marriage is “too controversial” and “has to wait”.

Don’t expect any courage from the Dems. And don’t cease breathing waiting for DOMA to be overturned by Ob.

26. marisacat - 7 November 2008

hasn’t anyone crossed a dachsund with a smallish poodle..

a dackdoodle…???

I think all those mixes make great dogs… and very little shedding…

27. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

14 – Remember shanikka? She went to town on the CNN Prop 8 numbers here: Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8.

(Apologies for all the GOS links lately, but I’ve been curious to see what’s popping up over there, post-victory.)

28. NYCO - 7 November 2008

A Goldendoodle isn’t exactly a mutt. It’s a designer dog.

29. NYCO - 7 November 2008

Oh, and as for Golden Retrievers or anything mixed with them… my sister is manager at a doggie daycare center. She hates them with a white-hot passion and claims they are the most incorrigibly bubbleheaded, worst-behaved animals on the earth, and not in a “cute” way.

30. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

28 – Maybe they can find some Beverly Hills mutt whose parents mated for love, not money?

Hey NYCO – it looks like the Gang of Four is starting to show some cracks (or sense).

31. marisacat - 7 November 2008

oh please IB link to whatever suits… 😉

32. marisacat - 7 November 2008

chipoo…. they could get TWO

33. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Yeah, I’ve never met a particularly smart retriever.

Maybe the First Family should keep dialing for a different rescuedoodle.

34. marisacat - 7 November 2008

24

I am pre-emptively saved! I damp wipe and damp mop…. [when I do anything]

35. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

32 – “chipoo” had me stumped, but I finally got it!

A poowuaha!

36. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

34 – Proof that housekeeping ends in tears: a picture worth a thousand words of caution.

37. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

(Weeping girl is daughter of idiot Dad who done it.)

38. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

From a Paterson press release about the launching of a new website relating to the NYS budget, courtesy of the TU’s Capitol Confidential blog (Call it ‘The Sims: New York Budget Version’):

The website has several features that will help engage New Yorkers in a discussion about our government’s spending priorities. They include:
Information about New York’s fiscal condition and Governor Paterson’s initiatives to control State spending
A section for New Yorkers to submit potential savings ideas, their input about the State’s spending priorities, or any other comments about the budget process
A calculator that allows the public to create their own proposal to balance next year’s budget, demonstrating the difficult tradeoffs necessary when closing a $12.5 billion deficit

Link to budget calculator.

39. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

Not that I give a crap what dog they get and I’m not a dog person (especially yappy little things), but we had one of these mini pinschers visiting here last month – same colour as the one on the pic but a little skinnier so he looked like a tiny deer – and he was the cutest thing, the size of a little chihuahua.

I could picture that one grabbing onto dubya’s face and hanging there if he decided to pop back into the WH for a visit. 🙂

40. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

22.

“Can you imagine the dog jumping on Putin, or lifting his leg and peeing on the curtains, or nipping at Gordon Brown?” she says.

Yes. And…??

41. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

22. Zit? Pre-emptive strike by prezident-hatin’ pretzels? Paper-cut from all the resumes currently thrust in his face?

Ha. Pretzel gone wild was my first thought too.

He never did release his medical records, did he? I don’t know…your mother and grandmother both die of cancer yet no one has the right to see your records?

42. marisacat - 7 November 2008

John Kass in the ChiTrib on the Rahm pick. He’s right, it’s lots of things but it’s nto “reform”.

***

Flipping thru the photos at LAT from the protests in LA at the Mormon Church.. I see they are willing to say “5000” at the protest… Hunting for the right photo of the church itself. Talk about church by Legos. Gah. The Great Mormon Stele.

43. marisacat - 7 November 2008

39

minpins! get one of those and a poohuahua…

44. marisacat - 7 November 2008

From the Shanikka diary… IB linked upthread…

Factually Unsupported Myth #1: CNN’s 10% Black exit poll sample accurately reflects the actual distribution of voters on Proposition 8.

yeah when I saw the CNN linked in the Guardian commentary (from a gay person) I figured it, the CNN report, was helping drive the issue. Whether right or wrong. The black rhetoric that just nastily denies the issue of Civil Rights to gays is not helping. And has not helped for years…. Just saying.

gah. back to reading.

45. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008
46. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008
47. marisacat - 7 November 2008

41

don’t think I have read which cancer White Grannie died of.. Mother was iirc cervical cancer.

Think he finally released an updated doctor’s letter with a DATE on it… and had some tests, very vague about that… All I saw that Altman at the NYT detailed was his cholesterol count Whoopie. No clear admission of smoking, how long and how much and current smoking. Conversationally he admits to “bumming cigarettes”.

I personally don’t care – nor do I buy the frantic anti-smoking in the US… but.. let’s get real. Nor did Biden ever get down to brass tacks of tests and scans for aneuryism (I cannot spell that word) esp after having had TWO. Just sort of glided by all of that…

I am unsure what Ob’s white grandfather died of.. forget now.

48. NYCO - 7 November 2008

Joe Biden stuttered as a kid? Who knew? (read the whole thing)

Could this possibly have something to do with his adult bouts of verbal diarrhea?

(Seriously, for all of the ribbing about Biden, dontcha think he’s about a trillion times preferable to Cheney?)

49. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

41. Well, just as he will be granted during his presidency, much of the public and the press will allow exceptions for The One.

50. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

Michelle (?), Republican strategist, just said on Hardball that Emanuel is a good choice because Obama “will need protection from the far-left”. Really? Looks like he’s done pretty well protecting himself from anything resembling what the so-called far left wants to this point.

As for Biden, Israel now has the Holy Trinity of its guardians at the helm: Emanuel, Biden and Obama. Just give Lieberdoodle the ambassadorship and all will be well.

51. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

48. Don’t count your Bidens before they’ve yapped.

52. marisacat - 7 November 2008

slwly plowing thru the thread (1699 too damn many but I will wander in ti for a bit) to the Shanikka diary. LOL One commenter did mention the salient point:

The Mormons essentially used the opportunity to bond with non white religionists christianists in CA… as a platform for the future. They see it as a growth area… Probably is for non black non whites. Becasue the numbers in Shanikka diary are right, and we will know more in the next census but black pop. in the state is falling………….

53. aemd - 7 November 2008

#46 Well behaved, won’t piss on the carpet and doesn’t shed. Perfect choice…. 😎

The minder, Rahm.

54. Intermittent Bystander - 7 November 2008

Musical chairs. Byrd is giving up the gavel on Appropriations committee. Inouye will be top senator there. Which makes Rockefeller senior in Commerce. If he becomes chair, DiFi would be next up for Intelligence chair. Which could put Schumer at the top of Rules and Administration.

In the end, no doubt a butterfly wing in Australia will flutter in the breeze created by all the upheaval!

55. marisacat - 7 November 2008

Speaking of Rahm.. Brooks on TNH just said that at some point it seemed that Rahm has “written to every iraq veteran who was pro-life asking if they’d like to run for congress”.

Yup it has looked that way. The men all smiled and said that is big tent, or growing the party or some such scheisse.

56. marisacat - 7 November 2008

54

they have been pushing at Byrd for some time, pushing his health I think. LOL As if Strom was not spending every weekend at Walter Reed getting rest, hydration and whatever else.

LOL

I think they want to ease Byrd out fully, as they continue the wars. The one thing he was really good at…

And isn’t this just divine:

If he [Rockefeller] becomes chair, DiFi would be next up for Intelligence chair. Which could put Schumer at the top of Rules and Administration.

57. marisacat - 7 November 2008

my god looking around at poodle mixes there is everything.

Pom poo pomeranian poodle.

maltpoo maltese poo.

poochon bichon frisee and poo…

on and on it goes. I did nto realise it was really just about everybody roughly the same size.

58. marisacat - 7 November 2008

Just heard Inouye will take Byrd’s chairmanship…

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

I posted a video I like to celebrate the arrival of Friday. Jenny Lewis and The Watson Twins – Rise Up With Fists

In honor of The One’s first (s)nooz conference.

60. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

7 – I think that ad was produced and spread virally on the internet a week before the vote. A lot of people thought that “No on 8” was being too polite and careful, and that if you’re being attacked in a culture war, then it’s time to fire back.

I actually love that ad, but then again heaping scorn on superstitious busy bodies is a favorite pasttime of mine. I disagree that it was childish … it is a good metaphor for the way the huge cults that run this country try to reach in and tell NON BELIEVERS how to live their lives using the power of civil law.

Religion deserves no special respect, and I will not and cannot understand why assholes from one side relentlessly attack other people but everybody gets all prim and proper when the targets of their attacks fight back.

61. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

5 & 9 – There was that case in NJ a few years ago, the cop who wanted to leave her pension to her partner upon her passing. Hell, even that tasteless “I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry” movie made a wonderful case in the end for people accepting gay marriage (yes, I know I should be ashamed for watching it, but it came on HBO one night and it ended up being better than I expected).

They should have plastered the media in CA with pictures of weddings, happy children looking up at their finally married parents, the tears of joy, the proud parents at the ceremonies … the should have focused on FAMILIES instead of RIGHTS … Americans don’t give a shit about “other” Americans’ rights. Couple that with some good attack ads on the cultists and they would have done much, much better.

62. marisacat - 7 November 2008

“No on 8” was a screw up… Petrelis at his blog has a post last night or this am that a person at the core of the campaign took a week off and went to Spain while the whole thing was in throes.

What I saw from the get go, from the moment of the SC ruling was one, Gavin OUT OF CONTROL. So many instances. AND they constantly patted people down, told people nto to worry, that across the decades there was polling that PROVED increased accpetance of SSM… pat down pat down pat down.

Take it to the churches. Directly. And there was several black preachers that came out forcibly in the last two weeks, take it to them as well.

The Mormons simply were tht biggest baddest bully, paired with the Catholics and then raked in the several black churches… etc. And for the two big churches it was directed from the highest levels.

Meanwhile WIlton Gregory (formerly of Chicago, then first black head of the USCCB now archbishop of ATL) and Ratzi seem very happy with Ob. Playing it both ways, but pleased nonetheless.

63. NYCO - 7 November 2008

57. one of my relatives breeds Maltese/Shih Tzu crosses… I just call ’em maltyshits. 🙂

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

42 – ooo, I like the slogan on this sign.

65. NYCO - 7 November 2008

poochon bichon frisee and poo…

I dunno, “poochon” sounds like it must be a French word for “whore” or something. Or something that soldiers go trawling for.

66. NYCO - 7 November 2008

64. I don’t like it so much… it says “I am a Victim” … wrong attitude if you ask me. Hit ’em in the pocketbook! Tax protest, tax protest!

67. marisacat - 7 November 2008

pouchon

I was kind of making up contractions as I went. It was sorta mind numbing… Quite a few Maltese Shitzu Poodle mixes too…

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

63 – LOL

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

I like the tax protest idea too, and I think gays should completely boycott CA as a vacation destination. Also like filing complaints about their tax exempt status (all the churches that were overt in their support), even though they won’t win.

70. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 November 2008

behind the scenes flicker set: Election Night 11-04-08

71. liberalcatnip - 7 November 2008

Nothing says “change” like a cochon. 😉 They could all take turns putting lipstick on it.

72. marisacat - 7 November 2008

nu thread……………….

LINK

……………………. 8) …………………………


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