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oh let’s run off and join the animals… 9 November 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, California / Pacific Coast, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, San Francisco, Sex / Reproductive Health.


A bold rabbit shares some food with Umqali the white rhino at Western Plains Zoo in Dubbo, Australia

A bit more courage on display…

Gah.  Arnold on Prop 8, having vetoed SSM twice as it came up thru the legislature in Sacramento… love how he advises the supporters to try try try again. Be the little engine that could! And he pushes the hoary old propaganda of the black vote.  And, it bears saying that Ob’s several lectures to black church groups helped set it up (finger wagging that the nice church goers should be nicer to the gays)…  Many do oppose SSM and often in rather ugly terms.  Just not bigger than the Catholics and Mormons… (And, fortunately, the protesters also went to Saddleback magachurch this weekend.  Good.)

Thanks Arnold:

KING: You lost on another one, on Proposition 8. It was not your idea, but you support same-sex marriage. And the proposition banning same-sex marriage passed. Many would look at California, which is viewed as this progressive, open-minded state, and say, why? What happened?

SCHWARZENEGGER: You know, I think that the people of California just, again, have spoken on this issue, and they went against it, just like they did in the year 2000, when they voted against it in Proposition 22. And here they had a chance again. And you know, they had a very, very strong campaign, the pro-Proposition 8 people, and I think that the people that tried to defeat it did not have maybe as good a campaign or had as much money behind it, whatever.

I think it is unfortunate, obviously, but it’s not the end, because I think this will go back into the courts, this will go back to the Supreme Court and all this, because the Supreme Court very clearly in California has declared this unconstitutional. It’s the same as in the 1948 case when blacks and whites were not allowed to marry. This is — this falls into the same category.

So, I think that we will, again, you know, maybe undo that if the court is willing to do that, and then move forward from there and again lead in that area.

Has to be undone.  The state constitution also states that the majority cannot remove rights from a minority.  The state SC was able to make the ruling, arising from a case based on a marriage entered into during the two weeks in February 2004, as our constitution did not limit marriage as to gender.  Who is who, who is not who.  And so on………..

We ARE nutty as all hell out here, and hardly blue, but sometimes we do do something right.

KING: As a governor, from a policy perspective, are those couples who were married, same-sex couples who are already married in California, are they in jeopardy in any way?

SCHWARZENEGGER: No, not at all. No. It’s just from now on. You know, it’s — there is no marriage between a man and a woman, until, like I said, the court determines (ph) it over or does anything about that.

KING: Is it a generational challenge, in your view, that maybe five or 10 or 20 years from now, it will be an easier issue?

SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, it’s also — it’s not just easier or harder. It’s just a cultural issue, also, because as you could see, because of the big turnout amongst African-Americans and Latinos, that had an effect, also, which they did not expect. So there’s all kinds of other things. And I think the religious groups have done a really, you know, big campaign, a lot of them, you know, to support Proposition 8 and so on. And, you know — so it’s a very, very difficult thing.

And it’s — when I was campaigning for Proposition 11 [redistricting], a lot of times press came to me and they said, “Governor, why are you doing that? It has failed five times before. Why a sixth time?” And I said, look, I learned the messages from lifting weights. Sometimes I tried to lift the weight 10 times and I failed, but the 11th time, I lifted it. I said, so I learned that you should never, ever give up. And I think it’s the same with this issue with Proposition 11. They should never get up. They should be on it and on it until they get it done.

Yes.. yes .. thanks Arnold.

Somewhere in that dither he blithely advises Republicans that yes indeedy you can win in CA as a R.  Sure can.  I’ve lived under plenty of Republicans.  Heard of Reagan?  Dukmejian?  Wilson?  And of course the Reformer Green Socialist Republican child of a Nazi Arnold.

Anyway.. LAT has a lookat who is floating to the top for the governor’s run… Westly, Silicon Valley entrepreneur (co starter of eBay) who hangs with Arnold, claims to be a D (as if it matters) and was West Coast Co-Chair for Obama (there are pictures of little Westly hugging Arnold, with his face at about the pectoral level), Meg Whitman, recently a R previously ”decline to state” (she’s hired Schmidt from Arnold and McCain hmmm fame)…. and worth somewhere over 1 billion… she can self finance.  Jerry Brown term limits out of the AG spot so .. guess what, he wants to be Gov AGAIN.  They speculate that DiFI will stay in DC now that she may ascend to the Intel Chair.  Honestly I don’t know which is worse,  her here as Gov or there running Intel committee………..


Gavin Newsom Democrat Age: 40
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom entered the race July 2. Newsom said he was mindful of his city’s somewhat eccentric reputation and alluded to the “values” issues – political code for gay rights and other left-leaning positions – that opponents may try to use to his political detriment. “Bring that on,” he said. [LAT]

And Gavin, whose name is mud except with Mormons, our motley crews of Evangelicals, Republicans of this or that stripe, conservative Dems and white Catholics. And whomever else… Plus, Big Dem Party Elected Gays are frantically defending him and Ob on gays, Prop 8, etc., so … he likely gets plenty of gay vote.  Maybe.  Who knows.  I guess it could work.  Then again he is an unstable fucking idiot and Bronstein, editor of the SF Chron, was more than happy last week to not-so-subtly allude (“Prop 8 gets his heartstrings”) to the long running rumor that Gavin is yes, GAY.  Or at least bisexual.  Over the years, I have come to think it is true.  We are so liberal, we have loads of beard marriages among ”white society” here, among movers and shakers and so on… and, somehow or other, a Republican mayor we had in the 90s, former Chief of Police, ws the beard for his wife.  Or maybe it was two beards in the marriage.


Last but hardly least a couple of sorta R… Poizner who never uses the word “Republican” in his ads, no matter the office he runs for and Tom Campbell… who ran three times against DiFi, from her left, but is close close close with Arnold.

We are so blessed.  I cannot wait.  Oh yes!… I almost forgot, Villaraigosa says he is not running.  Something knocked the stuffing out of him the past two years.  I would not want him as Governor, total loss of energy.  Maybe he gets scooped up and saved from LA issues by a DC job (he was among those standing behind Ob on Friday).

How could I forget?  They did not mention her and I have no idea if she ever entertained the idea, but we surely are saved from Carly Fiorina.



1. Willard - 9 November 2008

Sadly, there is a great deal of misinformation about LDS support of prop 8 which suggests Mormons have some sort of vendetta against gays. In reality, many Mormons respect gays’ right to live as they choose; even church leaders have officially stated they support legalizing domestic partnerships so that gays can have the rights they deserve.

There is absolutely no plot to “to bring their money and influence to bear against the LGBT community everywhere”; church leaders simply and briefly asked that members do what they can to support the measure.

I respect the rights of gay marriage advocates to peacefully protest, but they should do so with a correct understanding of the position of the LDS church and its members, that they do not hate gays or wish persecution on them.

2. marisacat - 9 November 2008

even church leaders have officially stated they support legalizing domestic partnerships so that gays can have the rights they deserve.

Would you hve a link to that? One that has quotes from named elders of the church.

church leaders simply and briefly asked that members do what they can to support the measure.

Seems to have worked very well.

3. marisacat - 9 November 2008

Sf Chron

Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.

Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California.

The June letter from Niederauer drew in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and proved to be a critical move in building a multi-religious coalition – the backbone of the fundraising, organizing and voting support for the successful ballot measure. By bringing together Mormons and Catholics, Niederauer would align the two most powerful religious institutions in the Prop. 8 battle.

Ironically, it made San Francisco, center of the nation’s gay community, a nexus in the fight against the recently gained gay right to marry. […]

I have seen reports that indicate that Catholic churches that serve the gay community have sought to actively downplay Niederauer’s fundamental role in this. So cute. Shill them in the church while you turn around… and work agaisnt them.

4. raincat100 - 9 November 2008
5. marisacat - 9 November 2008

From the Mormon Lawyers site…

This follows after a chronicling of stress, dissension and anger in LDS wards from the politicisation of Prop 8.

[“I] do expect the church to face a high cost – both externally and internally – for its prominent part in the campaign,” said LDS sociologist and Proposition 8 supporter Armand Mauss of Irvine, Calif. He believes church leaders feel a “prophetic imperative” to speak out against gay marriage. “The internal cost will consist of ruptured relationships between and among LDS members of opposing positions, sometimes by friends of long standing and equally strong records of church activity,” Mauss said. “In some cases, it will result in disaffection and disaffiliation from the church because of the ways in which their dissent has been handled by local leaders.”

Robert Rees, a former LDS bishop in California, says he has not witnessed this much divisiveness in the church over a political issue in the last 50 years. Whatever the vote’s outcome, Rees says, “it will take considerable humility, charity and forgiveness to heal the wounds caused by this initiative.” […]

6. raincat100 - 9 November 2008

one in spam, i think

7. marisacat - 9 November 2008

From the New America Foundation, which is centrist, government oriented and occasionally a little progressive. Whatshisname, Steve Clemons, of The Washington Note is a big factor at NAF:

[S]o, in these desperate final weeks, the new campaign team for No on 8 has adopted a tough, closing message that may yet salvage victory for same-sex marriage. The message? The people behind the ban are Mormons.

This a high-risk move, despite the message’s accuracy. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, better known as the Mormon church, has made unusually direct appeals to its members nationwide to support Prop 8 with their time, money or both. And Mormons have responded. By various estimates, somewhere between one-third and one-half of the approximately $30 million in donations in favor of Prop 8 has come from members of the church. […]

I have read as high as 22 million. There is a site tracking Mormon donations that I have never bothered to post.


afaiac, all the money should be tracked to the source. Not just Mormon.

This Mormon support is so vast that it’s a political vulnerability for the Yes on Prop 8 campaign. In polls, Americans register a low opinion of the Mormon religion (In a 2007 CBS News survey, the religion had a 25 percent favorable rating; the only faith less popular was Islam).The church’s history on marriage — it ended polygamy in 1890 — is a complicated one. So Mormons are a tempting target. But by raising the issue of Mormon support for the ban, supporters of same-sex marriage, who have spent decades battling religious prejudice, are now in the awkward position of profiting from religious prejudice. […]

Except the Mormons entered the fray, alerted all their congregations via a letter read in the churches… and did so in support of the Catholics. They did not have to… and Yes won. I don’t see anything awkward in No on 8, as lousy a campaign as it was (sold out from within is a good guess), fighting back and raising money.

Myself, I think the pols, the churches, across the board, are surprised that gays are calling them out on it.

8. marisacat - 9 November 2008

sorry raincat… yuo got snagged in Spam, should be out now..


9. bayprairie - 9 November 2008

hey willard. i think you’re church sucks.

10. marisacat - 9 November 2008

I am nto a big fan of Amos Brown, reverend, head of the SF NAACP chapter here, veteran of the CR era… but he did come out and campaign, in all ways, for No on 8 however.. I think the churches have trouble wihtin. I wait for issues to rise in the Cahtolic church, but they are very adept at CYA…

via Petrelis File, from an SF Chron report, Matier and Ross:

Just last Sunday, Third Baptist Church minister and former San Francisco Supervisor Rev. Amos Brown – a veteran of the civil rights battles of the 1960s – launched into a sermon about the need to protect the rights of gays.

Suddenly, a young associate minister seated in the front row stormed the pulpit, grabbed a microphone and began lecturing Brown about the need to “just preach the Gospel and leave that other stuff alone.”

Brown snatched the microphone from the man, who was quickly escorted out.

Brown warned the ugliness will continue if cooler heads don’t prevail.

“What this man did storming the church pulpit was just the tip of the iceberg,” he said.

11. marisacat - 9 November 2008

Petrelis has a pst up on how lousy Human Rights Campaing was in this mess. Not surprisingly

Given HRC’s lousy track record of not winning a single state ballot proposition for us, despite decades of employing their closeted approach to politics and initiatives, it seems more activists would have been wise to publicly question HRC integral role throughout the campaign.

When we saw the No on 8 campaign shoving gay couples back into the closet and not featuring them in the TV ads, an alarm should have rang out.

As the campaign failed over the summer and fall to bring about real and widespread community buy-in for the overall strategy, the HRC approach should have been tossed into the trash can.

With the No on 8 folks operating under the “no transparency, no accountability” mandate of HRC, community meetings to demand changes could have rectified the lock-out of many activists fed up with the top-down tactics of the campaign leaders.

‘d like to humbly suggest that the next time we face a state ballot proposition in CA or any state, and there will be a next time, let’s keep HRC and it’s operatives far away from any leadership role.

Frankly, the battle to defeat the next anti-gay ballot proposition would be better off to take the first 10-20 people coming out of any gay bar or gay AA meeting and put them in charge. Anything other than allowing HRC to muck up another chance to achieve gay liberation and equality.


12. bayprairie - 10 November 2008

I respect the rights of gay marriage advocates to peacefully protest, but they should do so with a correct understanding of the position of the LDS church and its members, that they do not hate gays or wish persecution on them.

fuck your respect willard, and woke the fuck up from the sleep of denial. your church is guilty of active persecution of a minority. and the anger being expressed against the evil you are an active part of is a righteous anger.

perhaps rather than wagging your finger at others you should pray to god for forgiveness.

then get out of the way.

13. marisacat - 10 November 2008

From SF Gate: (same link as upthread)

Exit polls data

Exit polls show that religious views had a profound effect on the result, spanning racial lines:

— 84 percent of those who attend church weekly voted yes.

— 81 percent of white evangelicals voted yes.

— 65 percent of white Protestants voted yes.

— 64 percent of Catholics voted yes. Catholics accounted for 30 percent of all voters

Hellooooooooooooo ?? Blacks were 10% this go round. Ususally that are about 6 % of overall…. In this area, some blacks are Catholics but most are the usual breakdown…

14. marisacat - 10 November 2008

more from SF Gate.. from what I have read, the churches ramped up hard the last weekend… and that is when the black ministers hit the streets (lst two weekends) and the flyers using Ob/words by Yes on 8 with 4 black ministers profiled on the reverse hit the week before voting.

The last Field Poll, conducted a week before the election, showed that weekly churchgoers increased their support in the final week from 72 percent to 84 percent. Catholic support increased from 44 percent to 64 percent – a jump that accounted for 6 percent of the total California electorate and equivalent to the state’s entire African American population combined.

The shift in Catholics alone more than accounted for Prop. 8’s 5 percent margin of victory.

“The Sunday before the election is just a very influential time for churchgoers,” said DiCamillo. For religious conservatives, “there was a lot of interest and attention and concern on this whole issue, but they brought it to a big conclusion on the final weekend.”

15. marisacat - 10 November 2008

Secret Million-Dollar Mormon Donor to Prop 8 Revealed

Total Contributions from Mormon Church Members May Now Total $20 Million

SACRAMENTO – The NO on Prop 8 campaign today announced that the secret $1 million donor to Prop 8 has been revealed: Alan Ashton, of Lindon, Utah.

According to the Deseret News, Ashton is a Mormon and grandson of David O. McKay, President of the Mormon Church from 1951-1970. Ashton made his fortune in software.

The donation was reported by the Prop 8 campaign on October 28.

The funds were in the form of matching funds to air a TV commercial that includes images of children who are being aired over the objection of their parents. [these were the first graders who attended – outside, waiting on the steps of SF City Hall – to celebrate their teacher after her marriage — Mcat]

According to the Prop 8 Web site:

“One of our most fervent supporters has agreed to match, dollar for dollar, whatever you and others can donate, up to a total of $1 million. That means every dollar you give will buy two dollars in advertising time.”

According to the ABC affiliate in Salt Lake City, Utah, Mormon donations as of October 27, 2008, were an estimated $19 million. The Ashton contribution therefore brings total Mormon donations to Prop 8 to an astonishing $20 million. […]

16. marisacat - 10 November 2008

LOL I think the Chatolics made otu like bandits here. Mahoney and Niederauer are having blessed cognac and LAUGHING privately at SLC. They pungled up cash cash cash… they bussed in volunteers… and they are getting slammed. And the Catholics stand to the side… pretty happy. The media runs down a couple of big rich Catholics who always support (in the WRONG way) the big social efforts, but overall the church.. gets a PASS.

LDS outta SUE! They got TAKEN.

What a hoot!!

17. marisacat - 10 November 2008


church leaders simply and briefly asked that members do what they can to support the measure. — Willard

Not quite…

Oct 09, 2008

Mormons renew calls for California gay marriage ban


Senior elders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made a televised appeal to Mormons in California Wednesday night to step up their already considerable efforts to pass a ballot initiative that would ban same-sex marriage in the state.

Senior elders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made a televised appeal to Mormons in California Wednesday night to step up their already considerable efforts to pass a ballot initiative that would ban same-sex marriage in the state.

Two members of the church’s second-highest governing body, the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, quoted from Mormon scripture on the sanctity of marriage as they laid out a week-by-week strategy for boosting Mormon involvement before the Nov. 4 election in voter registration efforts, phone banks and distributing campaign materials.

“What we’re about is the work of the Lord, and He will bless you for your involvement,” apostle M. Russell Ballard said during the hourlong meeting, which was broadcast to church buildings in California, Utah, Hawaii and Idaho.

There are about 770,000 Mormon church members in California, but Mormons from outside the state have been encouraged to give money and time to help pass the measure.

During Wednesday’s taped satellite broadcast, church leaders asked for 30 members from each California congregation to donate four hours of week to the campaign. …

Church elder L. Whitney Clayton, who has been working as a liaison between the LDS leaders and the Proposition 8 campaign, said before the event that it was meant to energize Mormons for the weeks remaining before Election Day.

“It’s a political campaign, and time is short and there’s a lot to do.” …

“In California, the phone trees are up and running. We just want to be able to help, and one of the things we can do is we can organize,” Clayton said in an interview Wednesday. …

Its involvement in the California same-sex marriage debate this year began with a letter from church President Thomas S. Monson asking California Mormons to give their time and money to pass Proposition 8. Monson’s letter has been read repeatedly in Mormon churches, and opponents of the forthcoming initiative have credited LDS members with giving the Yes on 8 camp an edge in donations and volunteers.

Some Mormons have criticized the church for wading so heavily into the political realm.

“We know that it is not without controversy, yet let me be clear that at the heart of this issue is the central doctrine of eternal marriage and it’s place in our Father’s plan,” Ballard said.

Besides Clayton and Ballard, the broadcast featured Quentin L. Cook, another member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.

18. marisacat - 10 November 2008

hmm All that really matters is, what is Ob going to do. Little, I would think. Probably one reason he bleats so much about crossing into Pakistan.

WASHINGTON — The United States military since 2004 has used broad, secret authority to carry out nearly a dozen previously undisclosed attacks against Al Qaeda and other militants in Syria, Pakistan and elsewhere, according to senior American officials. …

19. marisacat - 10 November 2008


“Basically, we’re the bullet sponge.”

– FIRST LT. DANIEL WRIGHT, executive officer of an American unit in Afghanistan, whose
function is to draw insurgents away from more populated
areas, creating security elsewhere.

20. Intermittent Bystander - 10 November 2008

RIP Miriam Makeba.

The Associated Press quoted hospital authorities as saying she died following a heart attack after being brought to a hospital in Castel Volturno near Naples in southern Italy. She had been singing at a concert in support of Roberto Saviano, an author who has received death threats after writing about organized crime.


Widely known as “Mama Africa”, she had been a prominent exiled opponent of apartheid since the South African authorities revoked her passport in 1960 and refused to allow her to return after she traveled abroad. She was prevented from attending her mother’s funeral after touring in the United States.

For 31 years, Ms. Makeba lived in exile, variously in the United States, France, Guinea and Belgium. South Africa’s state broadcasters banned her music after she spoke out against apartheid at the United Nations in 1976 — the year of the Soweto uprising that accelerated the demands of the black majority for democratic change.


In her interview in 2008, Ms. Makeba said: “I’m not a political singer. I don’t know what the word means. People think I consciously decided to tell the world what was happening in South Africa. No! I was singing about my life, and in South Africa we always sang about what was happening to us _ especially the things that hurt us.”

21. Intermittent Bystander - 10 November 2008

A Quiet Windfall For U.S. Banks: With Attention on Bailout Debate, Treasury Made Change to Tax Policy (WaPo).

The financial world was fixated on Capitol Hill as Congress battled over the Bush administration’s request for a $700 billion bailout of the banking industry. In the midst of this late-September drama, the Treasury Department issued a five-sentence notice that attracted almost no public attention.

But corporate tax lawyers quickly realized the enormous implications of the document: Administration officials had just given American banks a windfall of as much as $140 billion.

The sweeping change to two decades of tax policy escaped the notice of lawmakers for several days, as they remained consumed with the controversial bailout bill. When they found out, some legislators were furious. Some congressional staff members have privately concluded that the notice was illegal. But they have worried that saying so publicly could unravel several recent bank mergers made possible by the change and send the economy into an even deeper tailspin.

“Did the Treasury Department have the authority to do this? I think almost every tax expert would agree that the answer is no,” said George K. Yin, the former chief of staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the nonpartisan congressional authority on taxes. “They basically repealed a 22-year-old law that Congress passed as a backdoor way of providing aid to banks.”

The notice was released on a momentous day in the banking industry. It not only came 24 hours after the House of Representatives initially defeated the bailout bill, but also one day after Wachovia agreed to be acquired by Citigroup in a government-brokered deal.

The Treasury notice suddenly made it much more attractive to acquire distressed banks, and Wells Fargo, which had been an earlier suitor for Wachovia, made a new and ultimately successful play to take it over.

The Jones Day law firm said the tax change, which some analysts soon dubbed “the Wells Fargo Ruling,” could be worth about $25 billion for Wells Fargo. Wells Fargo declined to comment for this article.

Definitely worth reading the whole thing. Last grafs:

Some legal experts said these under-the-radar objections mirror the objections to the congressional resolution authorizing the war in Iraq.

“It’s just like after September 11. Back then no one wanted to be seen as not patriotic, and now no one wants to be seen as not doing all they can to save the financial system,” said Lee A. Sheppard, a tax attorney who is a contributing editor at the trade publication Tax Analysts. “We’re left now with congressional Democrats that have spines like overcooked spaghetti. So who is going to stop the Treasury secretary from doing whatever he wants?”

22. Intermittent Bystander - 10 November 2008

How is Ahnuld getting away with his bullshit boo-hoos on Prop 8?

From SFChron, October 2007Schwarzenegger vetoes same-sex marriage bill again.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed a same-sex marriage bill Friday, the second time in three years that such a measure died on the governor’s desk.


In his veto message, the Republican governor said it is up to the state Supreme Court and then, if necessary, voters to alter Proposition 22, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman in California.


“This will be part of his legacy,” said Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California, which sponsored AB43. “He single-handedly is standing in the way of lifting the cloud of discrimination for millions of Californians.”

Apparently NOT, if even a year later nobody mentions it.

23. Intermittent Bystander - 10 November 2008
24. Intermittent Bystander - 10 November 2008

Great photo – love the harmonics between bunny ears and rhino horns.

Have a good Monday, all.

25. marisacat - 10 November 2008

yeah his vetoes are rarely mentioned… once in a while in print media… but that is it…

A lot of people in CA are besotted with Arnold. Mostly by now I am just glad he ws only allowed to stand for reelection ONCE… and as it was, the CA DP and big CA Dem donors just lay down and died for him. They did nto support Angelides who ran on the DP ticket. And most appalling imo big Dem donors such as the Dreamworks triumvirate, who are afterall JEWISH, endorsed him.

One of the things he did in his second term was to gut the Workers Comp system here. It is rarely even discussed. And he ran as a reformer.

I sure hope the floats that Ob considers him for anything are just that, floats. They mention ”Sec of Energy”… which is just cruel after he was part of what BushCheney did to us in ’01 – an actual non military ASSAULT on us thru energy systems and providers…

26. marisacat - 10 November 2008

via Sully:

There will be a peaceful, respectful rally outside the Mormon Temple in New York City at Columbus Avenue and 65th Street at 6.30 pm this Wednesday evening.

27. NYCO - 10 November 2008

Blurb on the NYT website:

After a tour of the White House, President Bush and President-elect Barack Obama were expected to split off from their wives for formal talks concerning the transfer of power.

America, 21st century: Run along, wifies! Us menfolk are the preznits.

Change is Good!

28. marisacat - 10 November 2008

via Ben Smith

Obama hires Lux

The Huffington Post reports that progressive strategist, OpenLeft.com blogger and Huffington Post contributor Mike Lux will be “an adviser and progressive liaison during the transition period.”

Obama basically built an infrastructure parallel to the Netroots during his campaign, but taking on Lux — one of the few Netroots players who worked in the Clinton administration — is a sign that he’s reaching out.

29. marisacat - 10 November 2008


she is only allowed to be “Muther”. Or the even worse, “Mom-in-Chief”

30. bayprairie - 10 November 2008

i just noticed that the sweetheart of the netroots rodeo, darcy burner, conceded defeat friday night. guess i missed that one.

31. marisacat - 10 November 2008

HAHAHAHAH On Darcy Burner… AND I suspect that McClintock, a very very conservative guy out here is going to win over Charlie Brown… another beloved. It was the Charlie Brown seat that Dkos whackos raked Cindy S over the coals about, claimed she lost them the seat.

MCclintock is a harsh social conservative, but I pretty much accept the idea that he is one of the few people who understands how the dmaned CA budget (a season in hell every year) works.

32. NYCO - 10 November 2008
33. marisacat - 10 November 2008

hmm thanks for that NYCO.. one of the things that has not been written about much or analysed, it was overwhlmed by the presdiential run, is the moves the Ob Camp made on the DNC. It sounds as though they absorbed it into their Chicago ops.

A few weeks ago there had been talk that the Illinois DP chair Tewes might be put in as chair.. but i am not hearing his name today.

Specualtion about McCaskill and a split chair (think that was The Page).

They are def moving the DNC away from where the Clintons can insert themselves into it…

34. marisacat - 10 November 2008

well… this IS more than a little crazy (if the report is in any way accurate!)… Do you think the Mormons could maybe step back from so. much. major. interference? Could the dead lie in peace… and the living too…

NEW YORK (AP) — Holocaust survivors said Monday they are through trying to negotiate with the Mormon church over posthumous baptisms of Jews killed in Nazi concentration camps, saying the church has repeatedly violated a 13-year-old agreement barring the practice.

Ernest Michel, honorary chairman of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, said talks with leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which were held as recently as last week, are over.

“We do not ask for, or want your love,” Michel, whose parents died at Auschwitz, said in a statement released ahead of a news conference Monday, the 70th anniversary of Kristallnacht, the Nazi-incited riots against Jews.

“We ask you to respect us and our Judaism just as we respect your religion,” he said. “We ask you to leave our six million Jews, all victims of the Holocaust, alone, they suffered enough.”

Using genealogy records, the church also baptizes people who have died from all over the world and from different religions. Mormons stand in as proxies for the person being baptized and immerse themselves in a baptismal pool.

Only the Jews have an agreement with the church limiting who can be baptized, though the agreement covers only Holocaust victims, not all Jewish people. Jews are particularly offended by baptisms of Holocaust victims because they were murdered specifically because of their religion.

In May, the Vatican ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons so that Catholics could not be baptized.::snip::

35. marisacat - 10 November 2008

Admittedly petty potatoes, but I got a kick out of this Atlantic Dispatch on the jockeying over where the Obama kittles will go to school.

36. NYCO - 10 November 2008

Starbucks 4Q profit drops 97 pct

Seattle-based Starbucks said profit fell 97 percent to $5.4 million, or a penny a share, from $158.5 million, or 21 cents per share, a year earlier. The coffee retailer earned 10 cents per share when the costs from closing about 600 stores in the U.S. and 61 locations in Australia are excluded… Analysts expected profit of 13 cents per share, according to a poll by Thomson Reuters.

37. marisacat - 10 November 2008

Might as well laugh… 😉 via HuffPo

President-elect Barack Obama has informed party officials that he wants Joe Lieberman to continue caucusing with the Democrats in the 111th Congress, Senate aides tell the Huffington Post.

Obama’s decision could tie the hands of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who has been negotiating to remove Lieberman as chair of the Homeland Security and Government Reform committee while keeping him within the caucus. Lieberman has insisted that he will split from the Democrats if his homeland security position is stripped.

Aides to the president-elect did not return requests for comment. Senate officials were unclear whether Obama would be comfortable with Lieberman maintaining his current committee post.

UPDATE: Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo writes that Bill Clinton has also been “making calls on Sen. Lieberman’s behalf,” something that the Huffington Post later heard from another Hill source.

But Matt McKenna, a spokesman for the former president, vehemently denies the report.

“It’s completely false,” he says.

They all just luv each other… no other answer for it all…

38. NYCee - 10 November 2008


Well, these “shes” (Laura and Michelle) dont want to be involved in the bidniz of statecraft or uncrafting or craftiness, as the case may be. Apparently it was all about the girls’ bedrooms. Apparently Grandma will abide there too. Michelle was also checking out private schools.

My boyfriend gets a laugh out of how I picked up on and imitate Laura’s tendency to rely tres heavily on the word “great” to describe just about everything. Once, when she co-hosted Today with Meredith and Matt, everything was, again, “graaayt,” but also “fun.” She likes “great” and “fun.” I suppose, for variety, sometimes things are “great fun!”

So I had to laugh at the MSN clip of the photo op of the arriving guests today. As the two WH veterans gently herded the newbie couple into place for the group pic, the clip just managed to capture Laura looking at the camera and saying, what else, “great!” Oh snap! With that auto-smile thing she always does.


39. NYCee - 10 November 2008

Brother can you spare a bailout dime?

Jesus — I owned 1 car for about ten minutes of my life, way back in the day… a black humpbacked Volvo … the steering wheel vibrated something fierce… I sold it for the price it took to tow it.

Besides that blessedly short stint, all I ever used is public transportation, indulgence taxis on occasion (wearing my heavier carbon print boots there 🙂 and bikes and my feets. And I have looked with dismay at the ugly, ever multiplying pack of SUVs dominating the roadways over the years. And now we gotta bail the dinosaur-making, DC enabled (cafe standards? what?) auto makers out? Ugh. Stupid consumers too. Gotta ride that “truck,” gotta ride high up… room for my fat ass and consumption packaging, is all I can guess. And to be one of the pack. Now, the CEOs hold out their begging bowls, do it for the poor workers, for Bob Cratchit and his droopy-eyed, pitiful brood times millions we’ll have to lay off, if you dont cough up…



40. marisacat - 10 November 2008

Maybe AIG could “lend”” the car makers some from their additional 40 gazillionbillion.

I did not bother to click and read thru but there is a headline popping up that Ob wants the bailout/lone/lendlease what ever it is! to go thru for Deeeeeeeeeetroit.

I wanna rebate. And more than 300 bucks.

41. Will - 10 November 2008

I’m not finding the original press release, but here’s an article that references it in detailing efforts to bring gay rights to Utah with church cooperation.

42. Will - 10 November 2008
43. NYCee - 10 November 2008

Well, they always get the public in a bind re these bailouts. The threat of all those workers getting the heave ho… Of course, Clinton never pushed to raise the cafe standards, either, as I recall … And he had Mr Green Earth as his allegedly VERY INFLUENTIAL and ACTIVE vp.

Ugh. Close the windows, turn on the gas. Harold Ford on David Gregory’s show waxing, dripping, over the meet n greet today. Saying it shows how “majestic” our system is, “why we fight to spread it around the world” (actual quotes)… then, shortly after, “I pray to God” was thrown in… I hear he works or worked on Wall Street now… or in finance, somewhere. Perfect. He is like a black Good German, the way he worships at the horns of the bull… Merrill Lynch… now gored… what is it now?

Oh yeah, Bank of America… spread it (how euphemistic!) around the world, spread it for the joy of plastic shitheads like Harold Ford… the “majesty” of us.

44. NYCee - 10 November 2008

I was watching Ret. General Monsoor talking about his book today on Cspan, his experience in Iraq. No fan of the military, but he seemed fairly decent and up front, coming from that perspective. During Q&A he said that the predator bombing of Pakistan was not the way to go. Just gonna fuck things up. Was wondering if he has Obama’s ear.

45. NYCee - 10 November 2008


Obama plans US terror trials to replace Guantanamo

WASHINGTON – President-elect Obama’s advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan that the Bush administration said Monday was easier said than done.

Under the plan being crafted inside Obama’s camp, some detainees would be released and others would be charged in U.S. courts, where they would receive constitutional rights and open trials. But, underscoring the difficult decisions Obama must make to fulfill his pledge of shutting down Guantanamo, the plan could require the creation of a new legal system to handle the classified information inherent in some of the most sensitive cases.

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008

I missed the Mormon concern troll?

Thanks to Bayprairie! Well said … bet the poor thing has his magic undies all in a twist.

47. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008

American Patriotism: Another Planet by: Hélène Crié-Wiesner, Rue89

Seven years ago, right after the 9/11 attacks, the daily newspaper Libération had asked me to rush over to the headquarters of Continental Airlines, based in Houston (Texas) where I then lived. An hour earlier, Continental had announced thousands of layoffs, even as the federal government had just made a colossal emergency aid package available to airline companies stricken by the drop in traffic.

An important detail: Continental, although one of the only companies to still post a profit, was going to benefit from this federal handout.

Preserving Competitiveness at Any Cost

As a good French woman accustomed to union ripostes and rapid walkouts, I expected to see the skyscraper’s forecourt occupied by angry employees. At the very least. But not at all! It was lunchtime, and hundreds of employees munched on their sandwiches as they sat on the steps and in the building’s basement. Some were crying, or were consoling others who were:

“I won’t be able to pay for my mother’s retirement home any more.”

“My son will have to leave college.”

“We won’t be able to pay for my husband’s chemotherapy for colon cancer.”

I had dared pose this kind of question: “Don’t you feel any outrage over your employer’s behavior?” Most people looked at me wide-eyed. They told me Continental “had” to make pre-emptive layoffs “to maintain its competitiveness.”

And that when business picked up again, some of them would be rehired. In short, what was there to protest; no, they really didn’t think it was “appropriate” in these hard times for America.

48. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008
49. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008

Vote-fraud watchdog nipped at polls

Secretary of State Todd Rokita, who oversees Indiana elections, got a new perspective on vote challenges this past week.

Rokita, of course, is an outspoken defender of one of the strictest photo ID laws in the nation. In the weeks leading up to the election, he also recommended filing charges related to bad voter registrations delivered by ACORN, the community activist group.

Then, a funny thing happened to Rokita on the way to voting:

His own absentee ballot was challenged by precinct poll workers.

According to Marion County election officials, his messily inscribed signature upon checking in to vote — he signed it “Todd Rokita” — did not match his neat poll book signature of “Theodore Rokita.”

So what did poll workers do?

Well, they placed his ballot in a pile of provisional ballots that do not get counted until the Election Board can review the challenges one at a time after Election Day. (The board decided Friday that Rokita’s ballot will indeed count in the official final tally.)

Ed Treacy, the Marion County Democratic chairman, said he thought it was “hysterical” that Rokita’s vote was challenged.

“This is a person who does everything he can to repress every vote he can,” Treacy said. “Now maybe he’ll be able to really appreciate the sanctity of the vote.”

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008
51. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008
52. marisacat - 10 November 2008

41 and 42


you got caught in moderation as WP saw your two posts as “Will” as new. I have the defaults set to send all new commenter comments to Moderation, sorry!

hmm while you are at it, Please read the 10+ comments I have posted to rebut your characterisation of the LDS asking their fiathful “simply and briefly” to help…. The LDS church came in here like a crew of marauding elephants… and I especially recommend you to my comment at #16.

Your church got taken in the deal, LOL and outsmarted by the CA Catholic bishops, imo.

Thanks for the link. Looks like a media link, will give it a read.



pretty thin stuff. A single throw away line from Elder Clayton, whcih by the way has been carried on TV here as well. The report basically is on Utah gays asking for the church’s help to get basic rights thru the leg. Good luck:

Gay and lesbian spokespersons asked for help from the LDS Church in winning gay rights in Utah, but not for gay marriage, in the wake of the passage of Proposition 8 in California.

“While we disagree with the Church’s position on Proposition 8,” said Stephanie Pappas, Chair of Equality Utah at a news conference on Monday. “We respect that their position is based on the guiding principles of their faith.”

Most gay comment towards the LDS Church has been acrimonious since Proposition 8, limiting marriage to a man and a woman, won approval of California voters on Election Day. […]

“We are not anti-Gay. We are pro marriage between a man and a woman,” said Elder L. Whitney Clayton, of the Presidency of the Seventy. He has said the Church does not oppose rights for gays but only marriage for gays.

“We’re taking the Church at its word,” Pappas said today.

Gay Utah legislators say they will introduce bills for equal housing and employment, insurance for gay partners, right to visit a partner in the hospital, and rights of the surviving partner to property if the other partner dies. Gays want a statewide partner registry for unmarried committed couples of any sexual combination…..

In a sad way ti is rather funny, to be frank.

53. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008

“We are not anti-Gay. We are pro marriage between a man and a woman,” said Elder L. Whitney Clayton

I think I just saw film of Harry Reasoner (on one of the endless celebrations of Obama ending racism, iirc) talking to one of the white racists outside Little Rock High. “I got nothin’ against them, they should just stick to their own schools,” a rough paraphrase from memory, anyway.

Bigotry is bigotry, and NO, making fun of grown adults insisting on us respecting their fairy tales is NOT bigotry.

54. marisacat - 10 November 2008


I had dared pose this kind of question: “Don’t you feel any outrage over your employer’s behavior?” Most people looked at me wide-eyed. They told me Continental “had” to make pre-emptive layoffs “to maintain its competitiveness.”

Corps are religions. We wait for and gratefully accept the manna of their god. meanwhile they are thieves and killers… LOL

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008

Corps are religions = thieves and killers

back in school they called that a tautology!

see above discussion about a certain cult in UT … 😉

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 November 2008

Olbermann’s special comment about Prop 8:

What is this, to you? Nobody is asking you to embrace their expression of love. But don’t you, as human beings, have to embrace… that love? The world is barren enough.

It is stacked against love, and against hope, and against those very few and precious emotions that enable us to go forward. Your marriage only stands a 50-50 chance of lasting, no matter how much you feel and how hard you work.

And here are people overjoyed at the prospect of just that chance, and that work, just for the hope of having that feeling. With so much hate in the world, with so much meaningless division, and people pitted against people for no good reason, this is what your religion tells you to do? With your experience of life and this world and all its sadnesses, this is what your conscience tells you to do?

With your knowledge that life, with endless vigor, seems to tilt the playing field on which we all live, in favor of unhappiness and hate… this is what your heart tells you to do? You want to sanctify marriage? You want to honor your God and the universal love you believe he represents? Then Spread happiness — this tiny, symbolic, semantical grain of happiness — share it with all those who seek it. Quote me anything from your religious leader or book of choice telling you to stand against this. And then tell me how you can believe both that statement and another statement, another one which reads only “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

57. wu ming - 10 November 2008

the one to watch in the governor’s race is garamendi, IMO, especially if it’s a crowded field, because he’s got central valley roots, and the coastal cities could get pretty divided up between the rest.

58. marisacat - 11 November 2008

wu ming

iirc he has a ranch…

well I realised after I did that slash and burn I forgot about him. The article in LAT is kind, it does nto mention his past runs. Nor how utterly lackluster he is on the stump.

I’d be fine with Garamendi, to be frank I don’t think it much matters after Democrats kowtowed to Arnold and he got a free hand at a lot of destruction. They let him do the dirty work they wanted done (too) but preferred their hands be clean.

59. bayprairie - 11 November 2008

Obama’s decision could tie the hands of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who has been negotiating to remove Lieberman

oh please, give me a break. harry reid never had any intention of removing liebarman. obama’s just giving the extremely unpopular reid cover. as long as lieberman remains on the committee on homeland security and governmental affairs, as chair, or even as a member, he’s right wing vote. obviously the powers that be want it kept that way.

and the concept of harry reid ever having untied hands is laughable. he needs no assistance at all to be completely ineffectual. he is without a doubt the great american appeaser.

national democrats. such sheep.

60. marisacat - 11 November 2008

gnu thred…………


…………………… 8) ……………………

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