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Occupier 11 January 2009

Posted by marisacat in 2010 Mid Terms, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Israel/AIPAC, WAR!.
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January 07, 2009
The Gaza conflict: Ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel watch a pall of smoke rise above the northern Gaza Strip
[Pavel Wolberg /EPA]

I’ve put up photos of the chaplains  with our troops and clips of stories and photos of troops praying before battle, in particular in Fallujah, where we were so brutal (where were we not?).  Charges and evidence  of White Phosphorus, shooting at ambulances, every male over 12 or so considered a combatant, locating snipers across from the hospitals.  Snipers around and above a soccer field, as they buried their dead.  Forced evacuation, ringing the city, as we did with others, with earth berms and concertina wire, check points to keep the residents out… retina scans installed…

I have no idea what they believe in. Battle field chaplains and spectator rabbis…  In the name of Jesus… I do what?  In the name of God.. I do .. what?

I’ve said before, what do the rabbis think is in the smoke?  Always and only concrete, mortar, bricks, blasted fruit stands, dead donkeys?

In Gaza blog, belonging to an Eva Bartlett:

“They will not finish. Until the martyrs reach 1,000,” the nurse predicts, taking a break on his night shift. “They want to make Gaza into Guantanamo,” he goes on. “All of this will not break the Palestinian people.”

In the hospital room where I tried to sleep between an ambulance shift and morning obligations, the tank shelling and firing is in the room, landing on my pillow.

It’s the shells, which crack and blast. The staccato gunfire. The drones’ whine, in menacing pitches. The fighter plane’s sudden, thundering presence.

The drone ramps up the decibels, a train wreck of disharmony.

And the inevitable whoosh before the explosion, an F-16 launch which erupts a crater where someone’s house, or a market, or a mosque once stood. The blast an hour ago was a market, another nurse tells me. “It was a beautiful market, sold everything, everything we need,” she says.

Hours later, after the sun finally rises. Women are walking onto the hospital premises, large towel-covered platters on their heads. A small electric stove is plugged in, and they take turns baking bread for their families: no gas, no electricity at home. They are lucky to have the flour to bake with, and I guess that a trickle of that aid that only trickles in has reached them. But it’s never enough.

****

zz

Demonstrations were held across Europe in protest against Israel’s action in Gaza. Thousands gathered for Britain’s biggest pro-Palestine protest in London.
[Getty Images/BBC]

Comment is free at The Guardian is chock full of reaction and rumination… From Naomi Klein on boycott to a post on how Gaza war will likely redound on Eqypt (not a winning game for Mubarak) … to a 30 year old self-described assimilated, liberal (I have no idea what that word means anymore) British Jew who nearly wants to leave England due to anti semitism — her text never mentions the current war nor the Occupied Territories tho the title does mention Gaza, but I would credit the Title Editor for that — I have slowly (really slowly) figured out that in life there are those who think nothing, or very little, that is external should ever affect them or their lives..  Well whoops.  Naomi is topping 500 comments and the other, by Francesca Segal, opens to comments in a few hours…

****

This, from the Sunday Guardian/Observer

What the dismantling of the Gaza settlements did not do was end the expansion of colonies on the West Bank. Shilo has grown by about 25% since 2005. The “outposts” around it, which are illegal even under Israeli law, have been expanding so fast that the “Shilo block”, with about 10,000 residents, is now as large as the main settlement that was dismantled in Gaza.

Most Israelis tell the pollsters they would sacrifice Shilo for peace. But influential voices are against it, among them the man tipped to be Netanyahu’s defence minister. Moshe “Bogie” Yaalon, the former military commander in the West Bank, pressed the government for months to attack Gaza, and is against a withdrawal from the West Bank.

Medad is confident that Yaalon’s views will prevail. “If you don’t have control over a population, you suffer. You want to call it occupation… fine. But there has to be some sort of control, supervision,” he said. Yaalon recently asked: “What is the big difference between Gaza and Judea and Samaria – Judea and Samaria we can go in at night, we know where they are, and pick them up. In Gaza we can’t do that.” …snip…

*****

Found this at Tiny Revolution.. I did not see the Olberman / Leverett segment (transcript and vid at the link), but I caught her [Hillary Mann Leverett, former director for Iran and Persian Gulf Affairs at the National Security Council,  served in the US embassy in Tel Aviv, and spent considerable time in Gaza] on another news program, World Focus, and my little head popped right up at her commentary. As a commenter at TR said, she is not long for TV land… nor did Olberman want to continue the conversation and cut it right off.  Gotta love it when it does not work out for THEM.

Amidst the ruins, enjoy…

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1. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

then-Assemblyman Willie Brown, who later became speaker of the Assembly and even later mayor of San Francisco. He insisted that instead of adding the phrase “man and woman” to the law, the word “marriage” should be struck and substituted with “a contract between people,” – last thread

Wow, really? From a distance, I’ve never quite known how to take Willie Brown. He often comes off as a clown on the national news programs. That above is pretty damned cool.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

CBS Sunday Morning did a Bush legacy thing w/ a bunch of historians and several Bushies. The usual either/or thing, though it’s interesting that the professional historians are pretty much unanimous.

And that’s not a minority opinion. In a 2006 Siena College survey of 744 history professors, 82% rated President Bush below average, or a failure.

Last April, in an informal poll by George Mason University of 109 historians, Mr. Bush fared even worse – 98% considered him a failed president. Sixty-one percent judged him, as Ellis does, one of the worst in American history.

“John Adams, the second president, said that there’s one unforgivable sin that no president will ever be forgiven, and that is to put the country into an unnecessary war,” Ellis said. “I think that Iraq has proven to be an unnecessary war, and will appear to be more unnecessary as time goes on.”

Dan Bartlett works hard to keep up their party line:

Opinions vary on the impact of these and other programs, but the consensus is Bush’s legacy will largely rest on one event – 9/11 – and his response to the attacks.

“At the eye of the storm, he was a very calm person,” said Bartlett, “making very methodical decisions. This was a man who met his moment in many respects as a leader.”

Bartlett, now a CBS News consultant, was President Bush’s communications director, and was with him during the attacks.

Mr. Bush’s greatest legacy, he believes, is that there have been no more attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11, “which at the time was not something that was considered to be possible. Many people thought it was only inevitable that the terrorists who want to do harm to our country would be successful.”

“I think President Bush was a good man, so infuriated and angered by 9/11 that he put on his ideological blinders and forgot that we have other things we represent: civil liberties here at home, a constitution, global human rights,” said presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. “Then he started disliking the world community, alienated allies for no reason.”

Brinkley, also a CBS News consultant, sees 9/11 as a different kind of turning point.

Brinkley and the other historians are just, you guessed it, partisan hacks:

Bartlett believes the debate is still too tinged with partisan politics for any objective measure.

“I think the politics of the moment, and they’ve gotten very acrimonious, will slowly fade,” he said. “And then you can have a more dispassionate view of what did this person achieve, what was he trying to do, and was that actually right? My sense is it’s going to be a more favorable picture.”

So is President Bush’s current low rating among historians just liberal bias? Rice University’s Douglas Brinkley doesn’t buy it.

“When I’m sitting here telling you that Ronald Reagan and Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower were outstanding presidents? These are Republicans,” Brinkley said. “I’m telling you Ronald Reagan was one of the five greatest presidents in American history. I’m not saying that because I’m a liberal. I’m just saying it ’cause it’s a fact.

“But you have to then accept when I’m telling you George Bush is one of the five worst presidents in American history. It’s not ’cause I want to stick it to him. He simply failed on the big questions of his day.”

I will never understand the Reagan worship. The man left a field of ashes in his wake.

3. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009
4. Intermittent Bystander - 11 January 2009

Slight adjustments to Obster mantra on teevee this morning.

Stephie asks (about economy), “Can we fix it?”

Answer: “I think we can.”

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Closing Guantanamo Bay More Difficult Than People Realize, President-Elect Says

“I think it’s going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do,” Obama said in an exclusive “This Week” interview with George Stephanopoulos, his first since arriving in Washington.

“It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize,” the president-elect explained. “Part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo-American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.”

But Obama said unequivocally that it will close. “I don’t want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.”

“I think it’s going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do,” Obama said in an exclusive “This Week” interview with George Stephanopoulos, his first since arriving in Washington.

“It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize,” the president-elect explained. “Part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo-American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.”

But Obama said unequivocally that it will close. “I don’t want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.”

“We’re still evaluating how we’re going to approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. And obviously we’re going to be looking at past practices and I don’t believe that anybody is above the law.” Obama said. “But my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn’t mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation’s going to be to move forward.”

When pressed by Stephanopoulos as to whether he will instruct his Justice Department to investigate such accusations, Obama deferred to his nominated attorney general, Eric Holder.

“When it comes to my attorney general he is the people’s lawyer… His job is to uphold the Constitution and look after the interests of the American people, not to be swayed by my day-to-day politics. So, ultimately, he’s going to be making some calls, but my general belief is that when it comes to national security, what we have to focus on is getting things right in the future, as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past.”

Nope, no “… be(ing) ambiguous” on display there.

6. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Online Threat to Kill Obama Leads to Arrest

Walter Edward Bagdasarian, 47, was found with an arsenal of six weapons when Secret Service agents raided his La Mesa home in November, according to court records (.pdf). He had three handguns and three rifles, including a 30.06 with a telescopic sight and a Remington .50 caliber muzzle-loading rifle.

Bagdasarian is not accused of actually plotting against Obama, and he was released last month on a $100,000 real estate bond. Bagdasarian’s attorney did not return a phone call Friday.

The post in question showed up on a Yahoo Finance board on Oct. 22, about two weeks before the election, under the handle “californiaradial.” The message was titled “Shoot the nig.”

“County fkd for another 4+ years, what nig has done ANYTHING right???? Long term???? Never in history, except sambos.”

“Fk the niggar, he will have a 50 cal in the head soon,” the message concludes.

The message thread has been deleted by Yahoo, but traces in Google’s cache show that several other users announced that they were reporting californiaradial’s comments. In subsequent posts, the author calls one critic a “crybaby,” but does offer an explanation for the apparent threat. “I was drunk.”

7. wu ming - 11 January 2009

i wonder if the world will ever have the balls to boycott and isolate the US. it’ll be a minor miracle if they get beyond harshly worded letters with israel, even.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

I don’t think they have to boycott the US, just realize that they’re never gonna get paid back on their loans to us, so they stop lending.

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Do not watch the panel on This Week. Gingrich is calling for Israel to completely destroy and take over Gaza (“we didn’t let the Nazis exist after WW2”).

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Israel Is Losing This War

NEARLY SEVENTY YEARS ago, in the course of World War II, a heinous crime was committed in the city of Leningrad. For more than a thousand days, a gang of extremists called “the Red Army” held the millions of the town’s inhabitants hostage and provoked retaliation from the German Wehrmacht from inside the population centers. The Germans had no alternative but to bomb and shell the population and to impose a total blockade, which caused the death of hundreds of thousands.

Some time before that, a similar crime was committed in England. The Churchill gang hid among the population of London, misusing the millions of citizens as a human shield. The Germans were compelled to send their Luftwaffe and reluctantly reduce the city to ruins. They called it the Blitz.

This is the description that would now appear in the history books – if the Germans had won the war.

Absurd? No more than the daily descriptions in our media, which are being repeated ad nauseam: the Hamas terrorists use the inhabitants of Gaza as “hostages” and exploit the women and children as “human shields”, they leave us no alternative but to carry out massive bombardments, in which, to our deep sorrow, thousands of women, children and unarmed men are killed and injured.

THE FAILURE to grasp the nature of Hamas has caused a failure to grasp the predictable results. Not only is Israel unable to win the war, Hamas cannot lose it.

Even if the Israeli army were to succeed in killing every Hamas fighter to the last man, even then Hamas would win. The Hamas fighters would be seen as the paragons of the Arab nation, the heroes of the Palestinian people, models for emulation by every youngster in the Arab world. The West Bank would fall into the hands of Hamas like a ripe fruit, Fatah would drown in a sea of contempt, the Arab regimes would be threatened with collapse.

If the war ends with Hamas still standing, bloodied but unvanquished, in face of the mighty Israeli military machine, it will look like a fantastic victory, a victory of mind over matter.

What will be seared into the consciousness of the world will be the image of Israel as a blood-stained monster, ready at any moment to commit war crimes and not prepared to abide by any moral restraints. This will have severe consequences for our long-term future, our standing in the world, our chance of achieving peace and quiet.

In the end, this war is a crime against ourselves too, a crime against the State of Israel.

11. marisacat - 11 January 2009

sorry Madman… two of yours out of Moderation… !

😉

12. Intermittent Bystander - 11 January 2009

Wow.

[Olbermann]: . . . .But give me your thoughts on the Bush statement today, and what US role — the role we have had in the current crisis, because did Israel move because it got a knowing green light from us? Or was there an unwitting open window? How are we involved in this?

LEVERETT: There was an effective green light. There was a cease-fire in place until December 1th. The Bush administration actively discouraged the parties, particularly Israel, from renewing that cease-fire, because they didn`t want to legitimate Hamas in any way. They wanted to work with Palestinians we like, the, quote-unquote, good Palestinians in the West Bank.

So they didn`t want to do anything to encourage Hamas and Israel to renew its cease-fire that could actually become something more lasting and enduring. For President Bush to now come out and say, a week later, nearly 500 people dead — more than 500 people dead, to grudgingly acknowledge that maybe a cease fire, with some conditions, is warranted is — you know, it`s maybe what Sarah Palin would call trickery. A cease-fire was necessary immediately.

An immediate cease fire is what was needed to get monitors in, to get peace-keepers in, to ease the blockade, to get humanitarian goods into the people in Gaza. Something that`s more lasting and enduring is not a cease- fire. That would be maybe an armistice or negotiations that could lead to a resolution and settlement of the conflict. That would be enduring and lasting. A cease fire, by definition, is not that. It is really, I would call it word trickery.

Quite a few interesting Hillary Mann Leverett links in Google, including this piece about the end of BushCo’s games with the MEK (which was very underreported here, in the pre-Xmas flurries), in a December 24th guest post at the Washington Note: America Loses Another Bit of Leverage with Iran

Monday’s news that the Iraqi government is moving quickly to prepare the expulsion or deportation of the MEK – the Saddam-era Iraqi-based Iranian terrorist group — from Iraq is an important story that needs to be understood in the context of the post-9/11 U.S.-Iranian dialogue over Afghanistan and al Qaida, a dialogue in which I directly participated.

During US talks with Iran in 2002-2003 when it became clear the US was going to invade Iraq, the Iranians made clear that they would turn over suspected al Qaida figures in Iran to the U.S. in exchange for the U.S. allowing MEK leaders based in Iraq to be turned over to Tehran.

In 2003, the Bush Administration inexplicably rejected this offer and then had the gall, as the occupying military power in Iraq, to give the MEK “protected status” under the Geneva convention, which essentially prevented the Iraqi government from turning the MEK operatives over to Iran. The Bush Administration’s reasoning was that they wanted to have the MEK on hand to use as necessary to be a thorn in the side of the Iranian government – and, perhaps even a paramilitary force supporting a U.S. strategy to achieve regime change in the Islamic Republic.

Since the US and Iraqi governments have concluded the SOFA, the US government can no longer protect the MEK. And, it is clear that the Maliki government is moving to assert its own sovereignty by laying the ground work for the MEK’s deportation to Iran. Now, Iran may get hold of the MEK forces without having to give up a single thing.

On the talk shows this weekend, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice claimed that the conclusion of the SOFA shows that the US is winning over Iran in the battle for influence in Iraq.

The story I’ve just recounted strongly suggests that, as usual, Rice is out of touch with on the ground realities.

Also at Google, a January 2008 opinion piece by Leverett and her husband Flynt Leverett (a former NSC colleague, and ex-CIA) at Salon: Most Dems no better than Bush on Pakistan

The Bush administration’s bungling in Pakistan and Afghanistan has led to a resurgent Taliban and al-Qaida and loss of U.S. influence in the region. But Democrats did little to stop it.

Hope the commenters are wrong and we see more Leveretts on the tubes. . . . Beats the hell out of Carville and Matalin!

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

no problem!

14. mattes - 11 January 2009

Gingrich has been given his marching orders by the overlords.

None Dare Call it Genocide.

15. mattes - 11 January 2009
16. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Too funny. chit chat on the meltdown of the Soapblox whatever it ws or is. I call it a FAMILY problem. They got in a family way.

Oh I am laughing.

17. marisacat - 11 January 2009

In Gaza… I would say North Gaza, where iirc the settlements were, is under especially brutal reprisals.

18. bayprairie - 11 January 2009

He said his legal team is working to create a system that adheres to the rule of law, but will not result in releasing people who, in his words, “are intent on blowing us up.”

a set of new detention laws for crimes not actually committed? now that’s change you can believe in.

19. marisacat - 11 January 2009

War on Terrorist Thought Crime.

WoTTC

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Bay, you don’t expect Obama to just let Goldstein loose, do you? That would only confirm to Eastasia that we’re a weak-minded and easily beaten people and the war would never end.

You DO want the war to end, don’t you?

Perhaps they should send someone to talk to you about your commitment to our grand purpose?

21. marisacat - 11 January 2009

find the head cage, find the rats…

22. marisacat - 11 January 2009

hmm Israel is letting more foreign nationals out of Gaza (think they said 400).. but no reporters in. listening to NPR…

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009
24. diane - 11 January 2009

Marisa (16)

Who runs Soapblox? A guy named pacified …. Who is Mr. pacified? Why does all this webhosting go to him?

…well ya just have to laugh don’t you? ……..wonder how many Harvard/Yale/Cornell/Columbia (the Gem of the Pond)/Brynmawr/Wellesly/Rhodes/Stanfuhd (spelling? Fug it) scholars it took to come up with that moniker?

…yeah, laughing my ass off too………………….reminds me of that lame, mean spirited E.hope.

25. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009
26. marisacat - 11 January 2009

There’s also maps of the VOTING that has roiled the city (will see if I can turn one up)… in some cases it is down to what [usually newer multiplex sort] building. A new very pricey condo building went heavily for YES.. in contrast to some older eestablished and very traditional neighborhoods… that went for NO… the assessment is that newer people, business relocations are in the new condo hi-rises… and people who know Those Gays have no Gay Agenda are in the older SF neighborhoods.

27. marisacat - 11 January 2009

I always had the impression (based on nothing) that “pacified” was a sort of drone guy. And might possibly be a fall guy. But was such a drone he might not notice.

28. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Page 2 of the transcript to Stephie the prompter and dictation taker and Obster. He does not know how he will pay for health care. I won’t bother to snip out.

It is all so predictable. Not that we would ever get anything but some shredded (as in worse than a mess of a plan) version of Massachusetts’ compulsive insurance support system. Or whatever they call it…

***

Nine minute vid of Christina Romer, at change.gov, on what they plan to do about jobs. Creation of jobs. pdf of a report she and Jared Bernstein have out on jobs.

29. diane - 11 January 2009

24

….oh…and how much $$$$$$$$$$$$$ they’ve derived from that difficult task……………………..

Watched most of Lord of the Rings last night….so very amusing how Hollowood Wingnut Productions portrayed the enemy……dark skins….camel jockeys (well okay, substituted four tusked Mastadon jockeys) and rotted teeth (hmmm wonder how many homeless or petty crime jail denizens have rotted teeth?)

30. diane - 11 January 2009

Marisa (27)

yeah,…the fall guy thing has a real credible ring….

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

…dark skins….camel jockeys (well okay, substituted four tusked Mastadon jockeys) and rotted teeth

That’s all sort of baked into the books, too.

32. marisacat - 11 January 2009

The wars, as I see it, are all about the old slave patrollers.

33. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Biden of Afghanistan.

[T]housands of new American troops will be joining the battle against the Taliban this year, and Mr. Biden’s visit is a sign that Mr. Obama plans to make the region an immediate priority.

“I am very interested in what becomes of this region because it affects us all,” Mr. Biden said during his visit to Kandahar province, according to a statement issued by the NATO-led force. Mr. Biden was on the second day of his trip to Afghanistan.

During his time in Kandahar, Mr. Biden was briefed on activities of coalition forces in the south by Dutch Maj. Gen. Mart C. de Kruif, NATO’s regional commander. They discussed “the future of southern Afghanistan, to include the addition of American troops later this year,” the statement said.

The U.S. is rushing up to 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan and some will go to the southern provinces. Some 32,000 U.S. troops already in Afghanistan serve alongside 32,000 other NATO-led and coalition troops, the highest number since the U.S.-led invasion to oust the Taliban from power began in 2001.

34. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Ann Jones a humanitarian worker in Afghanistan… author of Kabul in Winter has a post at Tom Dispatch.

35. diane - 11 January 2009

Madman (31)

I got something of that feel about the book also……………but not near so blatant as that overly war long,….only those with toothpaste grins and perfect skin should be our elite….Hollowwood spin…

36. diane - 11 January 2009

35

books

37. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

Hamdan released in Yemen

[5-1/2 years in Gitmo sent to Yemen two months ago, Nov. 2008.]

38. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

The Picture above is sickening.
{reaching for the barf bag}

Via The Journal of Economics / MIT Press Journals in 2000.

SECT, SUBSIDY, AND SACRIFICE:
AN ECONOMIST’S VIEW OF ULTRA-ORTHODOX JEWS

[..but don’t let the vaunted reputations fool you…]

Economists have recently gained useful insights into social behavior using “social interaction” models, which extend traditional rational choice theory by including the actions of other agents directly in the objective function of individuals. These methods have allowed economists to progress in the analysis of interactions in fields traditionally reserved for sociologists. [1]
{Snip}
The Ultra-Orthodox pose three puzzles for a social scientist. First, the historical increase in the stringency of their religious practice represents a paradox. Ultra-Orthodoxy developed and thrived in the nineteenth century, during the economic emancipation of European Jews. While most Jews responded to the accompanying increase in real wages by reducing their adherence to time-intensive traditional practices, the Ultra-Orthodox developed a more stringent and more time-intensive form of Judaism. That trend is currently being repeated, as religious practice again becomes increasingly stringent and time-consuming from generation to generation.

Ultra-Orthodox fertility rates are the second puzzle. Fertility is high, at 6.5 children per Israeli Ultra-Orthodox woman in the early 1980s. It is also rising, reaching 7.6 children per woman by the mid-1990s. This community is dramatically reversing the fertility transition, a rarity in modern demographics.

Finally, the labor supply of Ultra-Orthodox men is low and falling. By the mid-1990s labor force participation among Israeli Ultra-Orthodox men had dropped to one-third. They remained out of the labor force on average until age 40 in order to study full-time in yeshiva, religious seminaries that provide almost no practical training.

In the face of poverty among their families, why do men remain in yeshiva so long? Part of the explanation must be draft deferments, which effectively subsidize yeshiva attendance. Yet, yeshiva attendance typically continues long after the deferment subsidy has run out, a finding inconsistent with price theory. Nor can the entire explanation simply be a preference for studying the holy texts. Ultra-Orthodox men outside of Israel, followers of the same denominations, rarely remain in full-time yeshiva attendance beyond age 25.

While Bermans last graf posed the central question :
In the face of poverty among their families,
why do men remain in yeshiva so long?

Berman’s next line FAILS explaining the UltraOrthodox patriarchy’s disdain for work, noting it continues beyond official subsidy. At that point in the piece, Berman simply states it is “a finding inconsistent with price theory” … Why?

It is not surprising Berman’s Apologetics proceed in the next paras to say

I offer an explanation for all three puzzles based on a club good model.
{Snip}
I argue that the club good approach offers a unified explanation for all three puzzles, while conventional price theory cannot, even when amplified by “social multipliers”
[Becker and Murphy 2000].

Then Berman tra la la’s the reader along the “Good Club” Model
of the Ancient and Great Faith.::

The degree of mutual insurance practiced within these communities today probably surpasses that of a traditional Indian village [Townsend 1994], and is believed to be unprecedented in Jewish history. [9] No sick member is without visitors, and no single member is without an arranged match.

{Snip}

Charity is ubiquitous, and interest-free loans abound, both in money and in kind:…just as “Torah” is not a select or elitist pursuit,

{bu-bu-ba-Ba-BARF!!}

….so too “Charity” does not merely, or even mainly, follow the classical pattern of rich-to-poor assistance. Almost everyone in the Israeli Haredi Ultra-Orthodox world is a recipient of charity, in one form or another. Yet at the same time the haredim give charity too, participating in cash or kindness in the cost of this universal Torah-learning [Landau 1993, p. 255].

Sorry, I’m not following Berman beyond the firewall,
though Berman tries to rehabilitate a less than enlightening piece… It fails on many levels. .For one, aside from Berman’s polemics…. Econometrics and Game Theory could at least theoretically quantify a value – if not a price/ breaking point on their “nonlaborious” bent…{Bums}

But more importantly, on what basis does Berman offer his pose that the UltraOrthodox live in Poverty? NONE.
Poverty is not being able to hitch a ride out of New Orleans. OR-Helllo?@!??- GAZA.
Poverty is NOT getting a lift up to watch the bombing like it was mere fireworks on colorful display…

Quite simply they are NOT poverty stricken let alone ascetic holy men and women.

These people and their whole subsidized country are nothing but Welfare Queens in the True AND Worst sense of the meaning that failed the truth test when applied to the poor here..They are the beneficiaries of

medical and welfare scams in the US….
tax fraud and charity scams…
government contracting rip off schemes…
Pension Fund Hijacks ( as mattes noted in this regard at BT )

…not to mention the run up and leverage from Madoffs $50 Billion Dollar fraud built up over 40 years- no 40 years in the desert , save Israel, unless the best spreads in Manhattan, Palm Beach and The Hamptons qualify, too…Public graft aside, Entire Vaults of money was “liberated” via market manipulation . “Liberated” -I suppose the rationale goes- from non-Righteous , non-Jewish control….”liberated” from non-Israeli supporting control, and went to “Charities” in Israel over the years: To “Settlements” and the armed settler Orthodox driving it, Israeli taxpayers,business interests, and The Orthodox alike being quite happy to receive it.

About the only thing Berman got right was his early frame, the veto power these fanatics hold over technologically advanced militaries in Israel and the U.S. I would replace the word loathsome for “fascinating”:::

Israel’s Ultra-Orthodox Jews are a fascinating and fast-growing sect that has held virtual veto power over public policy for more than two decades. They represent a unique research opportunity, since unlike gangs, cliques, and other groups defined by social interactions, Israeli Ultra-Orthodox Jews are reliably identified in standard survey data.

Israel is effectively breeding a caste of High Priests.
They are a menace, This “fascinating” sect that eschews all things modern except The Bomb, White Phospho, the Uzi, and Laser Guided High Explosive Munitions set upon civilians. Then they watch it like so much TV..

They disgust me , these voyeurs, these Jewish Necrophiles.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

wow, this is really pathetic:

GOP sees Franken as top public enemy

Why, because his books made fun of them? “I don’t know if we’ve ever had an opponent who is so disliked by Republicans as Al Franken,” said Minnesota Republican Party Chair Ron Carey, who cautioned that Coleman’s election challenge could still turn the results back his way. “It’s one thing to lose to an honorable opponent, but Al Franken is not considered an honorable opponent by Minnesota Republicans.”

Marty Seifert, the Republican leader in the Minnesota House of Representatives, said Franken’s long record of antagonizing conservatives would make it difficult for him to connect with voters who supported Coleman.

“It’s going to be hard for Franken to be very effective with any Republicans, in terms of having any credibility with us, just because he’s been so nasty in the past,” Seifert said. “He certainly has callous and very partisan behavior in the past that is beyond the pale.”

According to Carleton College political scientist Steven Schier, Franken’s record as a “flamboyant and aggressive partisan” would make him ripe for criticism back home.

“I think it’s impossible to overstate the hostility Minnesota Republicans feel toward Al Franken,” Schier said. “He will be a very useful fundraising tool.”

Republicans outside Minnesota are equally apoplectic when it comes to Franken. Prominent conservative Rush Limbaugh, who Franken mocked in the title of one of his books, has already jabbed Franken on his radio show, telling listeners in December that Franken “won’t quit [the Senate race] because he doesn’t know how to get a real job…He’s a pathetic figure.”

Democrats are hopeful that the resentment Franken faces from Republicans both within and outside of his home state will not impede his ability to win over his constituents – and his fellow members of the U.S. Senate. They believe that by leaving behind his past as a bomb-throwing entertainer and focusing on issues, he will earn the respect of colleagues and can build on the 42 percent of the vote he won in November.

Oh those Dems, “hopeful” that he’ll tone down. Not that I’m a big fan of Franken, but jeez …

40. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

oops, screwed up the blockquoting, sorry.

41. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Madman and BHHM out of moderation!

42. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Another one bites the dust:

My blogging in this space has been very spotty, for which I apologize. I’m suffering a stronger than usual case of post-election political exhaustion, made worse by the feeling that the Democrats, instead of moving into the next decade with renewed purpose and effectiveness, are getting ready to march back 10 years and resume cowering in terror whenever some Republican knuckledragger grunts at them.

Joe Lieberman, who called the party’s candidate a Marxist and campaigned on behalf of the GOP during the election, gets a free pass from the Democrats. Meanwhile, Howard Dean, whose 50-state strategy laid the groundwork for the Democratic sweep, is being treated like a idiot cousin by the people who kept the party wallowing in failure. Tom Daschle, who is supposed to lead the legislative campaign for healthcare reform, is already raising the white flag with Republicans, and Obama’s financial stimulus package is being prepped for failure by notions of “bipartisanship” and appealing to the Republican tax cuts uber alles mentality.

43. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

LOL from the Politico Piece on Franken:

The attacks apparently stuck, at least with Republicans. Republican activist Joe Repya, a retired military officer who considered running against Coleman in the GOP primary, said Franken is

“viewed by both sides as a mean-spirited, carpet-bagging, foul-mouthed sexist supported by Hollywood money.”

Other than that, Joe?

44. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Press TV… and the rest of the article is a round up global protests

In the largest pro-Palestinian demonstration in Europe so far, over 250,000 Spaniards denounce Israel’s bloodshed in Gaza and call for ceasefire.

Protesters in Spain’s capital Madrid and in other cities, including Seville, Malaga,Oviedo, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria and Ourense, carried banners saying ‘Peace’, ‘SOS Gaza’ and placards with the word ‘Gaza’ above a red-stained hand and mock blood-spattered bodies of children.

Police declined to give a figure but the organizers, which included the Socialist Party and trade unions, estimated the Sunday turnout at 250,000.

“It is my duty to call on Israel to implement an immediate cease-fire,” Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who had attended the rally, told protesters in Ourense.

45. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

From a party that welcomed Sonny Bono and Ronald Reagan, I find the agita over Franken to be really, really funny.

46. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Seems lies and the lying liars who tell them (the only one of his books I have read… and I would credit his very smart and energetic Harvard interns and helpers for the book) REALLY got under some people’s skin (such as they have human skin… }

47. marisacat - 11 January 2009

45

und Arnolt…

to our undying shame that CA elected him. TWICE.

It is very cute to think he is some exotic and wonderful hybrid… with his celeb D party wif and all… but he is a R. No question. It’s just that lots of Dems are like him.

48. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Lots of Dems would be Rs if they lived somewhere else.

49. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

There is no religion of peace

A rabbi consulted his holy books to see what God had to say about the vicious violence going on right now, and you can guess what God’s word might be:

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

Of course. Did we expect anything else? No moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Thank you for the carte blanche, God. How about raping? Is that OK? Baby butchering? Raping butchered babies? I’m sure it’s all good.

Sometimes it is so difficult to be an atheist. I don’t even have the solace of imagining Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu sizzling in hell, right next to Arnaud Armaury.

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

Greenwald

Obama’s interview today with George Stephanopoulos provides the most compelling — and most alarming — evidence yet that all of the “centrist” and “post-partisan” chatter from Obama’s supporters will mean what it typically means: devotion, first and foremost, to perpetuating rather than challenging how the Washington establishment functions.

As Talk Left’s Jeralyn Merritt documents, Obama today rather clearly stated that he will not close Guantanamo in the first 100 days of his presidency. He recited the standard Jack Goldsmith/Brookings Institution condescending excuse that closing Guantanamo is “more difficult than people realize.” Specifically, Obama argued, we cannot release detainees whom we’re unable to convict in a court of law because the evidence against them is “tainted” as a result of our having tortured them, and therefore need some new system — most likely a so-called new “national security court” — that “relaxes” due process safeguards so that we can continue to imprison people indefinitely even though we’re unable to obtain an actual conviction in an actual court of law.

Worst of all, Obama (in response to Stephanopoulos’ asking him about the number one highest-voted question on Change.gov, first submitted by Bob Fertik) all but said that he does not want to pursue prosecutions for high-level lawbreakers in the Bush administration, twice repeating the standard Beltway mantra that “we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards” and “my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing.” Obama didn’t categorically rule out prosecutions — he paid passing lip service to the pretty idea that “nobody is above the law,” implied Eric Holder would have some role in making these decisions, and said “we’re going to be looking at past practices” — but he clearly intended to convey his emphatic view that he opposes “past-looking” investigations. In the U.S., high political officials aren’t investigated, let alone held accountable, for lawbreaking, and that is rather clearly something Obama has no intention of changing.

In fairness, Obama has long made clear that this is the approach he intends to take to governing. After all, this is someone who, upon arriving in the Senate, sought out Joe Lieberman as his mentor, supported Lieberman over Ned Lamont in the primary, campaigned for Blue Dogs against progressive challengers, and has long paid homage to the Beltway centrism and post-partisan religion. And you can’t very well place someone in a high-ranking position who explicitly advocates rendition and enhanced interrogation tactics and then simultaneously lead the way in criminally investigating those who authorized those same tactics.

So Obama can’t be fairly criticized for hiding his devotion to this approach. But whatever else one wants to say about it, one cannot call it “new.” This is what Democrats have been told for decades they must do and they’ve spent decades enthusiastically complying.

51. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

more Greenwald:

UPDATE: Let’s emphasize what Obama is actually saying about why he can’t close Guantanamo right away. Here is his answer when asked if he’d close Guantanamo in the first 100 days:

It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.

What he’s saying is quite clear. There are detainees who the U.S. may not be able to convict in a court of law. Why not? Because the evidence that we believe establishes their guilt was obtained by torture, and it is therefore likely inadmissible in our courts (torture-obtained evidence is inadmissible in all courts in the civilized world; one might say it’s a defining attribute of being civilized). But Obama wants to detain them anyway — even though we can’t convict them of anything in our courts of law. So before he can close Guantanamo, he wants a new, special court to be created — presumably by an act of Congress — where evidence obtained by torture (confessions and the like) can be used to justify someone’s detention and where, presumably, other safeguards are abolished. That’s what he means when he refers to “creating a process.”

Amazingly, when discussing the same topic, Obama vowed that “we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.” How? By creating a new court just for accused Islamic radicals that allows us to use confessions and other evidence that we obtained through torture? That sounds like exactly the same “message about our values” that we’ve been sending.

52. mattes - 11 January 2009

#42 MM

…Lieberman, Israeli firster.

H. Dean…evenhanded approach.

53. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

52 – sadly mattes, I think that is a big part of it.

54. marisacat - 11 January 2009

So before he can close Guantanamo, he wants a new, special court to be created — presumably by an act of Congress — where evidence obtained by torture (confessions and the like) can be used to justify someone’s detention and where, presumably, other safeguards are abolished.

which will make them show trials for usa domestic political consumption…. as no ”evidence”, ”testmony”, etc., currently obtained can be used in european courts. it is presumed to be obtained under duress/torture.

end of story. hail change.

55. mattes - 11 January 2009

BHHM…don’t forget the connection between blood diamonds, Lev Leviev and religious sects around the world.

Then in Abramoff, peddling power and money in Washington as he sent arms to Jewish settlers.

Lots of cash, lots of power for the chosen.

Let’s hope Americans with certain names don’t get preferential treatment at the local banks. One could say they had an advantage.

http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2008/02/94633.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/world/europe/06antwerp.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/fea/travel/thisweek/stories/DN-diamond_1216tra.ART.State.Edition1.36c67e0.html

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 11 January 2009

STUFF JOURNALISTS LIKE – #30 press releases

Press releases are story pitches sent to journalists regarding everything from the merger of major corporations to Kid Rock’s new line of beer. Coincidentally, the majority of press releases are written by former journalists who either quit their journalism jobs in search of a PR job with better pay, or journalists who were laid off and had to sell their souls to the dark side to pay rent.

Journalists like press releases because they can be rewritten in five minutes and fill annoying white space in the next day’s issue. Sometimes journalists who are working on 10 stories, two series and a blog won’t even make a call on the press release before rewriting it.

As much as press releases can save a journalist time and effort, they also can draw the ire of journalists. Sometimes a journalist receives a 10-page press release about a new line of soap from some local boutique. Or a press release that does not include any form of contact information. Journalists do not like these type of press releases and will complain about them to anyone in the newsroom who listens for the next week or two.

Majority of press releases end up in a pile of potential stories or go directly in the waste bin. But occasionally a journalist will get a press release that is just too good to pass up.

These press releases are usually for events that offer free food. When journalists gets one of these press releases they will immediately drop everything they are doing, pick up the phone and RSVP to said event.

57. marisacat - 11 January 2009

gah… we are in near national crash mode here… and this is still the epic struggle of the senate titans…

Durbin says Burris’ resolution may soon be at hand

By Rick Pearson | Tribune staff reporter
3:33 PM CST, January 11, 2009

Senate Democratic leaders and their staff in Washington are reviewing newly submitted paperwork on behalf of Gov. Rod Blagojevich’s Senate appointee, Roland Burris, and Sen. Dick Durbin said a resolution to the controversy could come before Illinois lawmakers finish Blagojevich’s impeachment trial.

In the latest twist among Senate Democrats, Durbin told CBS’s “Face the Nation” that “point blank” the strategy was not to play a stall game and wait for Blagojevich to be removed from office so that Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn could name a senator. Blagojevich’s trial is expected to take weeks.

“To wait until Gov. Blagojevich is removed could be a matter of weeks,” Durbin said. “I think Roland Burris’ future and fate will be decided before then.”

58. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

48 There is no religion of peace…Rabbi Eliyahu

Maybe I got a very poor Catholic Education using words like “got” and all– but I understood quite clearly the assymetry as kid that the Crusades were ALL ABOUT Catholics going over to kick Islamic ass and percieved from the latter 60’s on that Israel was some type of mercenary for good old US of the USA! to do the very same….

I did have the fortune of comprehending incongruity tho WRT to doctrines of non violence except {and only except} to prevent even greater violence…Very clear as Viet Nam was piped into the living room, Six Day War, 72 etc — Munich – as horrific as it was – did not seem entirely detached from a much broader swath of violence clearly being waged — albeit Licensed — by The State.

Yeh, well, American cog picking up part of the tab of the ZOG that I am, I was browsing on Islamic Culture stumbling upon Quranic with a Q verses and commentary today…Honorifics deleted , it would be a pose, but quite happy for a more respectful spelling in referencing القرآن الكريم.::

But this religion is supposedly nutz?

..The cause is only against the ones who wrong the people and tyrannise upon the earth without right. Those will have a painful punishment. And whoever is patient and forgives – indeed, that is of the matters [requiring] determination [on the part of those seeking the reward of Allaah]” [Quran 26: 42-43] These verses confirm that the blame lies with the one who initiated the oppression and transgression, while the one who perseveres through it, is doing something praiseworthy, and will be highly rewarded.

Al-Fudhayl Ibn ‘Iyaadh said: “If a man comes to you complaining about another man who wronged him, then advise him to forgive him. If he says, `I cannot bring myself to forgive him and would rather utilise the right granted to me by my Lord to avenge` then say to him: `If you can limit yourself to avenging in a fair manner, without transgressing the limits to which you were wronged, then proceed; but if you cannot control yourself, then it is safer to return to the option of forgiving him as the reward for the one who forgives is great with Allaah.”

I ‘m not naive WRT any religion, all are subject to decontextualization, used for nefarious ends, then justified by a game of Quote That Verse…All are subject to Charlatans, War Mongers and Exploitive Elites…..

IMHO tho- in light of what has fallen on Islamic Peoples from
Nations in the West, and now Israel in the middle of it all-
it’s not even close: Islam has been hideously demonized.
Moreover, Muslims have been vilified when , given the number of its believers and the perpetual violence perpetrated against them and in their communities..they’ve shown what IMHO can only be called extraordinary restraint…

The world is in such terrible straight not because of godless men, quite to the contrary: the existence of God notwithstanding, its the vengeful certainty with which men have made Gods of themselves. It is a hubris I see no evidence of in either the Quranic verse and commentary noted above, nor in the paltry canisters of Qassam rocket fire lobbed towards Israeli oppressors.

What a perversion, Obama speaking of the right to defend his own children , the right to use missiles and bombs while ignoring the reality that is Palestine. We reallly are two evil partners, the US and Israel, on grotesque display now for the whole world to see….

59. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

And it is within the vengeful certainty with which men have made Gods of themselves thatall of the evils invariably flow. Perhaps The least of which are Greed and War,, rather the whacked notions towards women, gays, sexuality on a day to day basis fullfilling what someones Holy Novel says…

60. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

55 mattes whoops I forgot Abramoff! , but hey , consider the source-
I’m the jackass who just attempted to weigh the merits of one misogynistic homophobic religion against the other… 😯

61. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

Durbin, Burris, Harry “Man Titties” Reid

Can’t we just chip in and buy Man Tits something a little more form fitting AND avoid the expenditure of finding Durbin a truss?

LOL. Along those lines I was also thinking WE should pick up the tab for Soapblox and the demi-blahgs, the MLW rubber rooms.as it were..I mean really, – all those laughs over the years…

62. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

The Times has the same meme Bob Simon was pushing on Charlie Rose.the other night:

Crisis in Gaza Imperils 2-State Plan
By MICHAEL SLACKMAN

With every image of the dead inflaming the Arab world, officials in Egypt and Jordan are worried that the so-called two-state solution is slipping away.

Well, NO SHIT.

But “Slipping Away”, is the same shite as Bob Simon’s “History Passed it By” crock — Simon, clearly collecting three paychecks BTW – one from CBS, another from the CIA and – what the hell – Mossad too while living in Israel 10 years…Way to get paid , Bob.

“Slipping away”.What Bullshit. Unchallenged,
Israel has occupied Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.

Mubarak of Egypt and Abdullah ll of Jordan are bullshit too…They are playing a very near term game , the result of which will see their own countries destabilised if not shattered in the streets or via Israeli encroachment or BOTH.

Gad the media manipulation , the Talking Points are in clear view..

63. BooHooHooMan - 11 January 2009

G’night.. 😐

64. bayprairie - 11 January 2009

2nd from the top of the redlist at dkos

Naomi Klein: Boycott and Divest from Israel UPDATED w/ POLL
by Christopher Day

Uh, Occupation? (42+ / 0-)

Israel ended the occupation of Gaza three years ago.

And South Africa wasn’t being attacked by Namibia.

Yet again, an analogy that doesn’t work.

Plenty to criticize Israel for, yet most of the criticisms get hung up on bad analogies and metaphors.

by DHinMI on Sun Jan 11, 2009 at 02:01:16 PM PST

pelosi’s office must have contacted the “powers-that-be” at dkos and told them to shut down any disinvestment talk.

DHinMI has over 106 comments (!!!!!) in the thread to that piece alone. every one of them carefuly supports israeli government/IDF war crimes.

im sure the lazy bastard wouldnt work that hard for himself.

someone is pulling the dkos management strings.

65. wu ming - 11 January 2009

if i wanted to sway opinion on dKos, i’m not sure i’d use DH.

66. bayprairie - 11 January 2009

In Short (49+ / 0-)

There was zero justification for apartheid. The questions with Israel in Gaza are not so neat, as Gaza is run by Hamas, which is attacking Israel (!!!!!) and refuses to accept the existence of Israel. There are lots of things to discuss about proportionality and whether Israel is targeting civilians(!!!!!) and all kinds of other things,

::snip:::

by DHinMI on Sun Jan 11, 2009 at 02:04:49 PM PST

there’s the true face of the “progressive left” within the democratic party. still questioning whether israel is targeting civilians.

could he, and his donk buds, be any more rotten?

67. marisacat - 11 January 2009

HA! HA!

Mubarak of Egypt and Abdullah ll of Jordan are bullshit too

Angry Arab calls Abdullah II King Playstation

and his wife, is Queen YouTube. IIRC Hitchens… for all his sins, calls the Royal House of Jordan an operetta…

😈

68. bayprairie - 11 January 2009

here’s the idiot booman carrying water for ca$change

What we have is several dozen people in our custody that we do not want to release but who we may not be able successfully prosecute. In the ordinary course of things, we release bad guys when we screw up the handling of their evidence. Or, when we prosecute them using tainted evidence, the judge and/or jury acquits them. Unfortunately, some of the characters we have in custody, like alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, are not only extremely dangerous but (if the allegations are true) have the blood of nearly 3,000 Americans on their hands.

:::snip::::

Another good reason to hesitate is the competing claims to justice emanating from the victims of the crimes committed by some of the Guantanamo Bay detainees. What do we say to the relatives of 9/11 victims if we cannot bring a successful prosecution against the people that planned those attacks? Does their right to justice get wiped out by the waterboarding decision of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney?

:::snip:::

But it doesn’t surprise or bother me that the Obama administration is going to take a little time to work through the issues.

the boyo’s faith in the american system of justice is as thin as a reed blows the other way in a favorable political wind.

i will say it sure is funny watching the boyos run to the other side of the bush coin, and turn into what they previously professed hatred for, when they’re minders favor the switch.

69. bayprairie - 11 January 2009

blow = blown
they’re = their

let a jury, in a traditional court of law, weigh the evidence and decide. i don’t see any reason at all to trust anyone else.

least of all some lying blogger or the wizard of OB himself.

70. marisacat - 11 January 2009

Angry Arab, no embedded links…

Who can disagree?

Haytham Manna`, the Syrian human rights activist living in Paris, quotes recent words by Lebanese writer, Ilyas Khuri:

“Peace is no more possible because Israel does not want peace, but absolute hegemony and continuous terrorization. Thus, the only rationality in the face of fire, brutality and desturction is resistance.”

Who can disagree?

Posted by As’ad at 8:38 PM

There was a “pro Israel” counter demonstration today in SF… with a glut of HS girls, along with the assortment. Some signs said “Stop the Rockets”. It’s all about Hamas and Iran. The rockets. And that “Israel is not a Goliath, she just wants to defend herself”.

😯

71. BooHooHooMan - 12 January 2009

LOL. I woke up and smelled smokin’: it was bayprarie’s posts!.
THAT and
Holy Houle’s Ass on Fire! Jesus Bay,

Houle has gotten his head handed to him in that thread, the DKossers to their credit made an utter FOOL of him. My take is he has no where to go on the Hill after he had his lightweight jocked snapped right out of Paul Hode’s office, and totally unemployable by the Administration for a number of reasons:One, the boy is clearly an dumbass, embarrassingly so. Two he doesn’t have the background to get himself the mileage accorded to other younger wannabes with tickets punched in all the right places. Three, what is seen clearly on “the blahgs’ is he is a management problem. LOL. He’sgetting every fuckstek in pajamas running his ass out ON A BLAHG – didn’t hack it in hack heaven, The Hill and the penis pump is going to cut it as a Presidential appointee?? Oh just LMAO.

So what does he have? Evidently The ability to get his 15min on the 7A Saturday slot on CSPAN over a Holiday weekend recently when DC was a ghost town and every player was in Chicago getting vetted…LOL Guy # 4 on CSPAN had Dana parrot a few talking points over progressive expectations…Richard Nixon in the 1960 Debates looked more self assured..

Funny thing is -you can almost hear McJoan Bowers Stoller or other FP contenders for stewardess jobs in DC just fucking him royal behind his back…blogroyal that is, LOL. can you imagine the goings on over Administration blog sites that are said to be forthcoming? LOL. Maybe Armando and MSOC are getting notes from their shrinks.

So where does our boy Dana go? Evidently he’s looking to crawl up AIPAC’s ass or some such or mehbe latch on to somebody with a few shekels thinking about a run..He’s been peddling his ass around in DC evidently not to much avail…Right at the time there ain no EZ moneh no mo’….LOL.. Seriously, the guy is really poor value as a political hire and in highly competitive hiring environment: even less so…

72. BooHooHooMan - 12 January 2009

Heading back to bed, BP’s post on DH was just too good to pass up.
Back to counting sheep, where even they advise I SMFPH. 😉

73. marisacat - 12 January 2009

nu thred………………………..

LINK

……….. 8) ……………..


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