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I’d love to know… 4 April 2009

Posted by marisacat in 2010 Mid Terms, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Lie Down Fall Down Dems.

Two geese chatter in the hippo enclosure in the zoo in Berlin… [AP]

I’d love to know what the geese are saying…

Other than that.. a few tidbits from Hirsh at Newsqueak

Tim Geithner dismisses the idea that he is manipulated by Wall Street. And indeed the Treasury secretary, a career Washington technocrat, has never worked on the Street. But that doesn’t mean the kings of finance aren’t influencing Geithner now. In fact, the public-private partnership plan that Geithner laid out with great fanfare last week to address the “legacy” assets issue was first conceived by Warren Buffett.

Buffett proposed the idea in a letter to Hank Paulson early last October, according to Phillip Swagel, who was assistant Treasury secretary for economic policy under Paulson. (A current Treasury spokesman confirms that Buffett “had some interesting ideas that are consistent with the concept” of what has become known as the Public-Private Investment Program, or PPIP.) In his letter from last fall, Buffett mentioned that he had been discussing the issue of how to deal with the toxic assets with Bill Gross of PIMCO, the giant bond fund, and Lloyd Blankfein, the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

and  a little bit more…

On one side are those who want to fix the financial house we have; on the other are those who think we should knock it down so we can build a brand-new one—a new Wall Street, in other words. The keep-the-house-intact crowd includes Geithner and Bernanke, as well as Obama-appointed regulators like Mary Schapiro of the SEC. They want serious fixes to the Wall Street system—new rules and regulations to repair the old house and ensure that it doesn’t burn down again in the future—but they don’t much want to change its structure. Having giants like Citigroup and Bank of America dominating the landscape is OK with them, as long as those giants follow the new rules. On the other side of the debate are critics such as Paul Krugman and possibly Paul Volcker and Sheila Bair, chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., who think the old house is structurally unsound. They believe that not only can’t we solve the present crisis by merely tinkering with the old house, but that we’ll assuredly find ourselves in another crisis down the line if we don’t dismantle it entirely.

Hirsh states there is a deep philosophical divide in the administration, one that must be settled.

I’d argue it has been settled.

And of course along the way he says Buffett only wanted to help.  Help!  Help us!… we are so helped we are DYING…


Oddly enough, this appeared in the Guardian… which has often taken the tack wth Obama of simply not reporting on details or issues that are “uncomfortable”. Very bland vanilla reporting…  Well whoops.  Tho this does appear with a headlined disclaimer that the “orator” is never at a loss:

Normally word perfect, Obama ummed, ahed and waffled for the best part of two and a half minutes.

Well.. whoops he does.  Did.  Will.

It has been making the rounds of the righties..  The author, Crace, added his own opinions on where Obama’s thought process was in the long pauses, I snipped those out…

Nick Robinson: “A question for you both, if I may. The prime minister has repeatedly blamed the United States of America for causing this crisis. France and Germany both blame Britain and America for causing this crisis. Who is right? And isn’t the debate about that at the heart of the debate about what to do now?”

Brown immediately swivels to leave Obama in pole position. There is a four-second delay before Obama starts speaking

Barack Obama: “I, I, would say that, er … pause … if you look at … pause … the, the sources of this crisis … pause … the United States certainly has some accounting to do with respect to . . . pause … a regulatory system that was inadequate to the massive changes that have taken place in the global financial system … pause, close eyes. I think what is also true is that … pause … here in Great Britain … pause… here in continental Europe … pause … around the world. We were seeing the same mismatch between the regulatory regimes that were in place and er … pause… the highly integrated, er, global capital markets that have emerged … pause. So at this point, I’m less interested in … pause … identifying blame than fixing the problem.

That was about half of it… he finished up with a “look forward” sign off.

I think we’ve taken some very aggressive steps in the United States to do so, not just responding to the immediate crisis, ensuring banks are adequately capitalised, er, dealing with the enormous, er … pause … drop-off in demand and contraction that has taken place. More importantly, for the long term, making sure that we’ve got a set of, er, er, regulations that are up to the task, er, and that includes, er, a number that will be discussed at this summit. I think there’s a lot of convergence between all the parties involved about the need, for example, to focus not on the legal form that a particular financial product takes or the institution it emerges from, but rather what’s the risk involved, what’s the function of this product and how do we regulate that adequately, much more effective coordination, er, between countries so we can, er, anticipate the risks that are involved there. Dealing with the, er, problem of derivatives markets, making sure we have set up systems, er, that can reduce some of the risks there. So, I actually think … pause … there’s enormous consensus that has emerged in terms of what we need to do now and, er … pause … I’m a great believer in looking forwards than looking backwards.



1. marisacat - 4 April 2009

It’s not his fault! It’s not! Stolberg says DC wants to keep its secrets.. no matter what Ob does. or does not do.

WASHINGTON — At 12:01 p.m. on Jan. 20 — the precise moment Barack Obama became president of the United States — a new White House Web site sprang to electronic life with a pledge to “provide a window for all Americans into the business of the government.” The next day, Mr. Obama issued a memorandum on transparency, promising to make it one of “the touchstones of this presidency.”

Press briefings by “senior administration officials” who demand anonymity, a standard feature of the Bush administration, are also commonplace in the Obama White House. Mr. Obama recently infuriated advocates of open government by asserting his right to restrict communications between federal workers and Congress. And while he has promised to be more forthcoming about his schedule, some meetings — like the time he dropped by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s office to see Mikhail S. Gorbachev — remain undisclosed.

LOL he never released much information on his years in teh senate in Ill. Claimed nto have had a scheduler and thus no “schedules” to release. Ha!

Carry on.

2. marisacat - 4 April 2009

What goes up, must come down………..

Defiant N Korea launches rocket

North Korea has defied international warnings and gone ahead with a controversial rocket launch.

The rocket blasted off from the Musudan-ri launch site in the north-east of the country at 0230 GMT.

North Korea said it was sending a satellite into orbit, but its neighbours suspect the launch was a cover for a long-range missile test.

They strongly condemned the launch. The US president told Pyongyang to “refrain from further provocative actions”.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

CNN is awash with military “experts” using this to push for anti-missle defenses. a big useless boondoggle.

3. marisacat - 4 April 2009

another mass killing, father kills 5 children, Washington state.

4. marisacat - 4 April 2009

The Copy Cat Effect site has several posts up and in this one he uses thsi recap from AP:

“A string of attacks in the U.S. in the last month left 44 people dead in all,” observed the Associated Press, after detailing today’s attacks in Binghamton, New York, which had a total body count of 14.

“A gunman killed 10 people and himself in Samson, Alabama; shootings that began with a traffic stop in Oakland, California, left four police officers and the gunman dead; an apparent murder-suicide in Santa Clara, California, left six dead; and a gunman went on a rampage at a nursing home last Sunday, killing seven elderly residents and a nurse who cared for them,” noted the AP.

Last Sunday’s killings in Carthage, North Carolina, mentioned CNN at the time, were “the latest in a series of high-profile but apparently unrelated rampages [CNN’s words] in March, including the killings of 10 people by an Alabama man who was then killed by police. At an Illinois church, a man shot and killed the pastor and stabbed two parishioners, and a 17-year-old in Germany killed 15 people in two small towns before dying in a shootout with police.” …

Plus Pittsburgh and Orting…

5. BooHooHooMan - 4 April 2009

Pic Above….I’d love to know what the geese are saying…

I happened to have picked up goose-beak reading, useful for eavesdropping on just such conversations.

The one on the left seems to be ticked at the other’s political naivete:

“Obama?! The Democrats?! Change?
Yeh sure, birdbrain!

And we’ll just fly this Hippo here back to Canada with us!”

marisacat - 4 April 2009

LOL One of them is def telling off the other one, is what I see.. that forward neck motion is pretty assertive. Or surprised at vehemence…

BooHooHooMan - 4 April 2009

Which , tho not on substance,
leaves an opening for the other goose:

“Canada? We ain’t Canadian Geese, scheisse-kap.
Hello? Germany? Zoo?!
“Ich bein ein Berliner” ring a bell?”

BooHooHooMan - 4 April 2009

The Leftwinger will have the last word on the matter:

“Well suck me through a jet engine.
LMGAO. ~ Aren’t we the Good German Nationalist?
Still have that ridiculous T shirt
from last summer’s Obama Rally?”

marisacat - 4 April 2009

LMGAO oh too funny… Laughing my goose ass off… 😆

BooHooHooMan - 4 April 2009


catnip - 5 April 2009


BooHooHooMan - 5 April 2009



6. diane - 5 April 2009

uh uhhhhhh

The one on the left is a pentagon goose bot with a not so hidden recorder (see it near the goose sternum?) kind a like that box under the back of bushes suit coat in those “debates”..but they facked (or fucked) up it’s quack box and it sings like a canary instead……the one on the right is thinking whast the fuck is is this…I didn’t drink that much last night did I?

marisacat - 5 April 2009

hmm I am thinking the hippo is a really big recorder, hidden in place so to speak…. Not sure which agency he files his reports with……………. maybe he surveilles for Russia.


7. diane - 5 April 2009

thanks marisa, I was wondering about that hippo..good hiding place! if I could I’d offer that poor real goose, some of my Miller’s Genuine, looks like he’s gonna need it……


8. marisacat - 5 April 2009

hmm .. of course the totally useless G20 assemblage all now have a little school assignment, glue and paper and funny little scissors level, they get to condemn that fellow in NKorea.

[G]ibbs told reporters today that the launch “was not a surprise,” and that President Obama has been involved in several meetings about its likelihood over the past three to four weeks. The president today consulted with Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs of Staff vice chairman Gen. James Cartwright, as chairman Admiral Mike Mullen is traveling. He also consulted with aides traveling with him, including chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, National Security Adviser Gen. Jim Jones (Ret.), and various intelligence officials.

“This was something that has long been planned for,” Gibbs said. “Had at any moment we determined this launch posed a threat to the United States, we’d have taken the necessary steps.” …

Well! I certainly always want Rahm in the room… and Gibbs as the 3 am waker-upper. And as stumbling translator. So perfect.

9. marisacat - 5 April 2009

Aw hell. Give ’em to everybody! Only seems fair. I mean Abu Dhabi can be trusted with nuclear material… right? It’s just for energy .. right? LOL

Oil Shieks have a new toy

“Dozens of American engineers, lawyers and businessmen have converged on Abu Dhabi in recent months to help the United Arab Emirates get the Arab world’s first nuclear-power program running by 2017. “I don’t know anyone else who has rolled out a nuclear program of this magnitude this fast,” says Jeffrey Benjamin, an American engineer who in October was named project manager for Emirates Nuclear Energy Corp., which oversees Abu Dhabi’s nuclear program.” (thanks Michel)

Posted by As’ad at 7:43 AM

catnip - 5 April 2009

Afaic, until Israel allows inspectors into its facilities, whoever else wants nukes can have ’em.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

I don’t get why those states are more acceptable than Iran. Iran’s society, including its theocracy, seems more in line with western lifestyles and goals than those horrible sheikdoms. Not that Iran is perfect and doesn’t treat women, gays and dissidents horribly, but certainly the Emirates have terrible histories when it comes to their treatment of migrant workers, minorities etc. Hell, the oil states regularly hold our economy hostage.

oh, THAT’S why!

10. diane - 5 April 2009

16 Marisa

Really stunning how we can codemn anyone while we kill by remote control, such a frightening line we’ve crossed. Hideous to even think about that likely discussion that likely took place as to how the droning may ultimately blur the connection that by pushing that button someone may kill whole large groups of innocent human beings.

By the way just followed up on the Pittsburgh shooter, he was a batterer and had apparently really gotten in deep with white supremicists, not surprising, quite a bit of that in Pittsburgh. I’m really glad it wasn’t a black shooter, because as we all know when white people kill, it’s never due to their race, race was never part of the discussion when McVeigh killed all those people, but when black people kill it’s the first thing jumped on.

Don’t even want to know the effect the Oakland shooting is going to have on the justice for a totally unrelated Oscar Grant shot in the back, that should have stayed in the headlines for at least a month………and as much as I’ll never stop buying newspapers, I was totally discgusted to find the New York killings on page five of today’s paper.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Oscar Grant is slipping away, slowly he is becoming Mixon. The undertone is that force is always excusable as “they” might be Mixon.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009
11. diane - 5 April 2009

Wonder what some will say when it starts happening to more and poor whites, as it seems headed for. Was in a Seven Eleven earlier this evening where some young military boyos just opened a door and walked into a clearly marked employee only area. I really got a feal of fear for the very freindly young middle eastern clerk who they made some crack about “english” to when he really politely said guys you really shouldn’t do that (I think they’d been in there before), so I told them they made me feel like maybe I should hang around to make sure something bad didn’t happen, one of the assholes laughed and said we’re military. So that means you can harrass innocent people just doing their job and enter places you have no business going into, I said. The highlight was when the other made the mistake of telling me if it weren’t for them I would…I didn’t even let him finish with his glory story, I lit into the cocky asshole like nobodys business, felt great to get it off my chest, one of them even apologized, not sure that he wasn’t maybe slightly afraid that I might call their base and report that they had been harrasing and intimidating with no provocation whatsoever. And anyone that tells me I don’t have respect for law and order can shove it right up their ass, I have zero respect for thugs, and that’s exactly what they were acting like.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

one of the assholes laughed and said we’re military.

“support the troops” was always a nasty double edged oppressive propaganda. Good for you… diane.

12. Intermittent Bystander - 5 April 2009

Pakistan mosque blast ‘kills 20’. BBC says up to 60 more wounded in hospital, many critical.


diane – Big WaPo story today involving SCI. Article includes whistleblower info and photos detailing hazmat-level conditions and practices at several DC-area affiliates of the Houston conglomerate, including facilities serving Arlington Cemetery: Funeral Home Employees Say Bodies Were Mishandled.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

oh that is one of the worst funeral related, embalmng, whatever, etc., scandals that I have ever read. Horrifying. page 1 flipped me out…

Our latest here, a few years ago, was mild compared to that…

Intermittent Bystander - 5 April 2009

Horror movie material, right?

diane was all over SCI and Kenyon (and their Bush connections) during the Katrina aftermath.

BTW – I think a few links profiling the Pittsburgh shooter went to moderation.

Intermittent Bystander - 5 April 2009

Out now – thanks.

13. Intermittent Bystander - 5 April 2009

Stories on Pittsburgh shooter include references to Stormfront, Alex Jones, quotes from ex-gf (who had order of protection), and shooter’s MySpace page.
Suspect in officers’ shooting was into conspiracy theories (Post-Gazette)
Friends describe accused shooter as angry man (Tribune Review)

And how does UPI cover the story?
Suspect said a ‘good kid’ who wanted guns.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

UPI used to be a reputable news service … then the moonies got their hooks into it.

14. NYCO - 5 April 2009

A few things…

These are not “copycat” shootings. These are stressed people going over the cliff, no doubt exacerbated by the economy (and maybe the dawning reality that changeyhopeyness is not coming any time soon) using the means available to them in a country awash in guns. does anyone really believe that the guy in Seattle who shot his kids/self heard about the shooting in Binghamton or anywhere else and said “Gee what a great idea?”

Second, my theory about big media and Binghamton seems to maybe hold some water since I’ve noticed the New York Times continues to post features about it. Wow, going into a 3rd day of coverage… usually the news cycle passes this stuff by in 48 hours tops. Binghamton usually being considered as remote to the NYT’s “metro” coverage area as, say, Maine… I think that’s interesting.

Lastly – an addendum to the post Madman made in the other thread about the brilliant but obscure metal sculptor who committed suicide. Remembered a relevant quote from Viktor Frankl (in Man’s Search for Meaning), went back to find it.

Suffering is not always a pathological phenomenon; rather than being a symptom of neurosis, suffering may well be a human achievement, especially if the suffering grows out of existential frustration. I would strictly deny that one’s search for a meaning to his existence, or even his doubt of it, in every case is derived from, or results in, any disease. Existential frustration is in itself neither pathological nor pathogenic. A man’s concern, even his despair, over the worthlessness of life is an existential distress but by no means a mental disease. It may well be that interpreting the first in terms of the latter motivates a doctor to bury his patient’s existential despair under a heap of tranquilizing drugs. It is his task, rather, to pilot the patient through his existential crisis of growth and development.

When I hear the all too familiar story about some genius who takes his or her own life, I feel sad that there was no other genius out there who could help get him/her to the next level. Going backward, trying to be “reintegrated” into a world they have already gotten past, doesn’t generally work – except as a stopgap measure until they do find someone to guide them. The question is, where are these master guides? I hate to say this but I have an awful suspicion sometimes that the majority of mental health professionals, who are self-selected, are precisely those people who are the least competent to do this work. I used to work with a guy who was going back to school to get a master’s in family counseling. From working next to this person day to day for years I was frankly dubious that he had any particular talent for sensitivity of anyone who was out of the mainstream (he didn’t even seem to accept that one of his own children wasn’t a social butterfly). And then there are people who self-select themselves for a career in professional counseling, who are possibly attracted to it because they desperately want/need such counseling themselves.

It’s really all such a crap shoot – just like the medical profession itself, with its philters and elixirs. Despite the commonly accepted notion that “Depression is treatable,” I don’t know if it really is. Not saying that to be cynical, just realistic. I do think depression is survivable. Unfortunately the medical and psychological profession wants it either cured, or ignored.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

These are not “copycat” shootings. These are stressed people going over the cliff, no doubt exacerbated by the economy (and maybe the dawning reality that changeyhopeyness is not coming any time soon) using the means available to them in a country awash in guns. does anyone really believe that the guy in Seattle who shot his kids/self heard about the shooting in Binghamton or anywhere else and said “Gee what a great idea?”

Well if you are referring to my referencing the “copy cat effect” site, his take is really not that blunt… that a father wakes up in Orting and directly acts on a disimiliar killing in upstate NY. Nor would I make that blunt a connection.

Vroong (sp) seems to have a lot of problems.. and several versions of his story. The sister, in one report indicates he has been here 28 years and is a citizen. And yet he is taking English classes as of a month ago at that center. Murky to say the least.

As for the shrink therapist rigamarole:

who are possibly attracted to it because they desperately want/need such counseling themselves.

last I heard, and I have no idea about now, but psychiatrists had a pretty high suicide rate themselves. I think most do more harm than good. Or manage to offer so little common sense help that they do damage to fragile people.

The biggest damned problem with most doctors, whether shrinks or medical docs, is the innate superiority issues too many have, that is endlessly reinforced by treating the ill, the fragile and the dying. Perfect set up for unmitigated creeps.

NYCO - 5 April 2009

Oh I was just referring to the general “it’s copycat!” attitude out there. I didn’t think you were saying that. Sorry, sometimes my replies are not worded in the best way.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

I also think the “copycat” idea is more of a statistical observation than one where someone “copies” another person’s action. Mass killings statistically seem to come in clusters, like suicides do. “Copycat” is an inaccurate name for the phenomenon, if I understand it correctly. Basically one person breaks those social bonds, goes “over the cliff”, and thanks to the wonders of modern media, it creates a sort of “permission” for someone else to follow, and so on.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Oh one thing… Pittsburgh shooter is alive.. so we may know more at some point… but I think it is possible there is a connection between Mixon / Oakland of two weeks ago…. and Pittsburgh.

For all I know P thought he could take down 5… at this point, who knows.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Thank you for the Frankl … that is spot on.

I’m of mixed feelings about finding some kind of mentor/partner/guides. I’m sure they might work for some … think of the great correspondences through history between creators/thinkers/etc. Some people, however, create out of the void they inhabit, like pulling something out of nothing. I may be the only one who had this thought, but from the description in the story I somewhat suspect that Peter Bardy had completed his work and placed himself within it as the final object.

Sorry for that macabre thought, but I can’t get it out of my head.

catnip - 5 April 2009

I read Man’s Search for Meaning in my teens and it is one of my favourites.

As for your view of counselors, I think it’s absolutely true (having been one) that they bring their own personal baggage with them however it may not always be related to the particular niche they choose ie. I was an addictions counselor and had been clean and sober a number of years when I chose that role so I wasn’t dealing with my own addiction issues (which require some definition, I suppose) by then. I just felt my experience could help others. YMMV.

And, as one who’s battled depression since her teens, I can also tell you that depression is definitely “treatable”. Curable? Maybe so for those experiencing situational depression and/or those whose brain chemistry can be “fixed” with the appropriate medication (which is a major crap shoot) etc. But for those who live with that existential distress (which describes me to a tee) I think it’s more a matter of finding a way to cope – not necessarily a “cure”.

This is a huge topic. Hard to condense it.

Btw, you might be interested in this book by Frankl too if you haven’t read it: The Unheard Cry for Meaning

15. NYCO - 5 April 2009

28. Re the Binghamton shooter, Wong/Voong, there is another angle yet to be reported: he’s not Vietnamese. He is ethnic Chinese, I believe originally from Vietnam but not Vietnamese. You keep seeing this in comments about the story where Vietnamese people are quick to say “Voong is NOT a Vietnamese name.” I guess there was a history of ethnic Chinese taking advantage of Vietnamese immigration programs in previous years, trying to pass as Vietnamese, perhaps there was some resentment of a perception that these people were “cheating” or gaming the system to get in.

But it would explain a lot, I think, about this man’s alienation even from his fellow immigrants; and possibly why he felt he wanted to target the place where the immigrant community gathered.

16. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Recession persists, but jobless benefits ending

WASHINGTON – In the coming weeks and months, hundreds of thousands of jobless Americans will exhaust their unemployment benefits, just when it’s never been harder to find a job.

Congress extended unemployment aid twice last year, allowing people to draw a total of up to 59 weeks of benefits. Now, as the recession drags on, a rolling wave of people who were laid off early last year will lose them.

Precise figures are hard to determine, but Wayne Vroman, an economist at the Urban Institute, estimates that up to 700,000 people could exhaust their extended benefits by the second half of this year.

Some will find new jobs, but prospects will be grim: Layoffs are projected to go on, and many economists expect the jobless rate, already at 8.5 percent, to hit 10 percent by year’s end.

“It’s going to be a monstrous problem,” Vroman said.

U.S. employers shed 663,000 jobs in March, and the jobless rate now stands at its highest in a quarter-century. Since the recession began in December 2007, a net total of 5.1 million jobs have disappeared.

Those who know that their unemployment aid is about to run out are counting the days, taking on odd jobs, moving in with relatives and fretting about the future.

“My biggest fear is we’ll lose the house,” said Hernan Alvarez, 54, an Orlando, Fla., construction worker who lost his job in July and whose benefits will end in four weeks. “The only thing I can do is keep looking for work and hope tomorrow will be better than today.”

That so many people have remained on jobless aid for more than a year underscores the depth and duration of the recession, which began in December 2007. If the downturn extends into May, it will be the longest recession since the Great Depression.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Oh, the silly pantomime that the donks perform:

Conyers Wants Holder to Appoint a Special Counsel to Probe Bush Crimes

House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers has renewed his call for a special prosecutor to conduct a criminal inquiry into “war on terror” policies of the Bush administration, including whether “enhanced interrogation techniques” used on alleged terrorist detainees violated international and federal laws against torture.

The recommendation comes amid signs from other senior Democrats that they are shying away from a full-scale investigation, whether by a “truth commission” or a special prosecutor, into possible crimes committed under the authority of President George W. Bush. Congressional Republicans have been adamantly opposed to any inquiry.

Conyers, a Michigan Democrat, included his recommendation to Attorney General Eric Holder in a final report that was quietly released on April 2. Conyers made a similar recommendation in an earlier draft of his report, but this final version includes additional evidence that has surfaced in recent months to support his call for a special prosecutor.

“The Attorney General should appoint a Special Counsel to determine whether there were criminal violations committed pursuant to Bush Administration policies that were undertaken under unreviewable war powers, including enhanced interrogation, extraordinary rendition, and warrantless domestic surveillance,” Conyers’s report said. “In this regard, the report firmly rejects the notion that we should move on from these matters.”

While issuing a statement that accompanied the report, Conyers did not resubmit his formal request for a special prosecutor that he made last year when he and 55 other House Democrats signed a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey. Not unexpectedly, Mukasey – a staunch defender of Bush’s theories about expansive presidential powers – ignored the letter.

18. catnip - 5 April 2009

Gays killed in Baghdad as clerics urge clampdown

BAGHDAD (Reuters) – Two gay men were killed in Baghdad’s Sadr City slum, a local official said on Saturday, and police said they had found the bodies of four more after clerics urged a crackdown on a perceived spread of homosexuality.

Homosexuality is prohibited almost everywhere in the Middle East, but conditions have become especially dangerous for gays and lesbians in Iraq since the rise of religious militias after U.S.-led forces toppled Saddam Hussein six years ago.

I don’t recall hearing any western gov’t official commenting on that reality.

19. catnip - 5 April 2009

Show on CNN right now: ‘President Obama and the New World Promise’

Can I just say that I’m sick of seeing his mug on the teevee already? Mon dieu. He needs to take a vacation in obscurity for a while.

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Police ‘assaulted’ bystander who died during G20 protests

The man who died during last week’s G20 protests was “assaulted” by riot police shortly before he suffered a heart attack, according to witness statements received by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

Investigators are examining a series of corroborative accounts that allege Ian Tomlinson, 47, was a victim of police violence in the moments before he collapsed near the Bank of England in the City of London last Wednesday evening. Three witnesses have told the Observer that Mr Tomlinson was attacked violently as he made his way home from work at a nearby newsagents. One claims he was struck on the head with a baton.

Photographer Anna Branthwaite said: “I can remember seeing Ian Tomlinson. He was rushed from behind by a riot officer with a helmet and shield two or three minutes before he collapsed.” Branthwaite, an experienced press photographer, has made a statement to the IPCC.

Another independent statement supports allegations of police violence. Amiri Howe, 24, recalled seeing Mr Tomlinson being hit “near the head” with a police baton. Howe took one of a sequence of photographs that show a clearly dazed Mr Tomlinson being helped by a bystander.

A female protester, who does not want to be named but has given her testimony to the IPCC, said she saw a man she later recognised as Tomlinson being pushed aggressively from behind by officers. “I saw a man violently propelled forward, as though he’d been flung by the arm, and fall forward on his head.

“He hit the top front area of his head on the pavement. I noticed his fall particularly because it struck me as a horrifically forceful push by a policeman and an especially hard fall; it made me wince.”

Mr Tomlinson, a married man who lived alone in a bail hostel, was not taking part in the protests. Initially, his death was attributed by a police post mortem to natural causes. A City of London police statement said: “[He] suffered a sudden heart attack while on his way home from work.”

But this version of events was challenged after witnesses recognised the dead man from photographs that were published on Friday.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Mr Tomlinson, a married man who lived alone in a bail hostel, was not taking part in the protests. Initially, his death was attributed by a police post mortem to natural causes. A City of London police statement said: “[He] suffered a sudden heart attack while on his way home from work.”

But this version of events was challenged after witnesses recognised the dead man from photographs that were published on Friday.

The UK is most heavily surveiled place on earth, meaning CCTV. I am sure what really happened is on the cameras operating on the streets where this happened.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

the trick is SEEING the footage. If we’re going to set up these panopticons, the ONLY way for them to not enforce tyranny is for them to be looking at everyone, including authorities, and for everyone, including the public, to be able to access the images.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Not that I have carefully tracked it, I have not, but from what I have read over several years it is unclear if the film from our 30+ cameras are ever looked at.

But nevertheless I see so much “viewing” and “filming” as invasion. AND ours were only installed in “high crime” and coincidentally (they say) black neighborhoods.

Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

oh, I agree, but if they keep doing it then they shouldn’t be allowed to cherry pick what they release, and there should be cameras trained on the cops overseeing the cameras.

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Scenes from the G20

Good editorial cartoon.

Oh, btw, thanks for the heads up on the Black interview on Moyers. Catching up on it now.

22. diane - 5 April 2009


Intermittent thanks much for that link!

Bastards should have been shut down years ago, of course the fuckers in DC, are way too entangled with them to have that happen…

I don’t frankly even want to even know now, the ghastly things they ended up doing in New Orleans….such an evil omen for us that the aftermath of that hurricane was.

Who wouldn’t believe in “conspiracy” theories?….There has been a vast CONSPIRING againt the unrepresented for untold centuries. And it HAS been made into a subtle and hideous science in the United States. Thankfully millions of us choose to cling to trying to bring to a reality, the presumed promise of this country, which perhaps may have been only a wink wink half truth by a few or more of the “Founding Fathers.”

Also, thanks much for the props, but remember, it was “Bob Johnson”, whose writing I was following up on, wonder how Bob is doing…I hope well…..I still can’t access daily kos without using a proxy server….and generally don’t wish to.

23. marisacat - 5 April 2009

Sorry! 😳

catnip and Madman… several of yours out of moderation…

Sorry ti took forever…

24. diane - 5 April 2009

And for an instance of conspiring against humanity…why all the crickets surrounding the incredibly frightening state of robotics, when untold millions cannot find work to feed their families or put a roof over their heads, why is it never ever said, that robots explicit purpose, is to replace human beings?

And that question doesn’t even begin to address the psychological implications for human beings who are likely, the most social of all mammals……..we have not progressed anywhere….despite all of our “progress,” how very sad.

25. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Nobel Prize winner Krugman shares harsh view on economic woes

Dubbed a harsh, yet realistic perspective on the nation’s current economic climate by his audience Friday, Paul Krugman’s speech during the Desert Town Hall – Indian Wells speaker’s series made attendees gasp.

The world-renowned economist and 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Science winner may have even scared himself.

“This is terrifying,” he said. “I did not imagine in my worst expectations that this would be this hard. I thought that we could sit down and sketch out the kinds of things, in principle, you could do to offset this type of global slump. But I never thought it would be this hard, in practice, to implement.”

26. marisacat - 5 April 2009

A little NoKo (isn’t that just too cute? saw it under a photo of Hilary at Politico…) over there, and a lot of Afpak farther over there… Wars forever and ever and ever.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — A suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance to a crowded Shiite mosque just south of the capital on Sunday, killing at least 26 people. It was the third suicide attack in Pakistan in 24 hours, in a sign that the Pakistani Taliban are overwhelming the nation’s security forces. …

27. diane - 5 April 2009

(25) Marisa

Welll okayyyy hon…….

It was such satisfaction to define a basic premise of right and wrong to the youngins………but perhaps,…… I haven’t shared the most pleasurous part of that exchange

Early in the “engagement“……..”Hon hon,” a short cartoon cariacture of a Hitler worhipping Latino…(nooooooo kos isn’t that buffed and quietly [explosively so?] ‘stoic’….way tooooooo priveleged for that, kos is) the one who attempted to tell me how lucky I was for his protection, …immediately, and bewilderingly attacked me, and held me in contempt for: having some grey hairs………….…yes really,…….. specifically used the words grey hair…….yes,…… it HAS gotten that bad….no thanks to Jesama…….

Welllzy…..I have a thick, thick, wild head of curly salt and pepper hair..which I rather appreciate (yes, I have a bit of ego toooooooooooo)……..soz….I …then really got up in his face…

Wait until you get to be my age……….

So you don’t ever think your mom will get grey hair?………….

You….won’t get any grey hair?

He says, deadly serious, don’t talk about my mom….(okay to bomb Mom’s that look so very ….should be…………heartbreakingly similar to his Momin Pakistan and Afghanistan).

I says, don’t talk about me…..then………..I paused ……………..to take in the receding into tomorrow hair line he “sported”……………………….along with his atypical, “Jubilee “Church” Minion Warrior CIA Scharzen Groper adoring” buzz cut….

I guess you won’t get any grey hair, you’ll grow bald way before then…your hairline is already receding way…way back….…I’ll have way, way more hair than you, on the day I die…………………………………..

Blue Eyed blonde steriod boy (the one who “apologized” with his shit eatin well I’m jus a god blessed white boy) then made some asinine comment about “if it’s real”. (whilst smiling because we all know he’s gonna remind stoic boy, whom he likely luvs to one up,….how I clowned his ass into silence)

And of course it looks real, coz it is real…soz I got in his face…and says…does it look real to you?.

Haven’t had that much fun in quite the while……….

Jus sharin………

;0) (evil clown)

28. diane - 5 April 2009

…Mario Savio:

There comes a time when the machine becomes so odious, that you have to stop the machine……

1960’s Berkeley

[which has progressed so very far to yoo]

my brother just shared this with me on the dial-up PHONE…….

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Savio who lived a life of almost utter humility. Really pisses me off that both Meese and McNamara continue to live… Meese because so long ago he walked the halls at Berkeley and pointed out to the cops who should be arrested.

And they both go on, Meese and McNamara… so many dead because of them.

29. diane - 5 April 2009

folks dead…but still agonizingly alive…and will live forever…in the hearts of anyone who has a heart….so many tears….should be drowning the whole hideous shit pile……………..

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Urinating dog triggered argument resulting in 3 officers’ deaths

(CNN) — Three Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, police officers were shot to death while responding to a 911 call of a domestic argument triggered by a urinating dog, according to a criminal complaint filed in the case.

The officers were the first department fatalities since 1995, according to the department.

Police said following the shootings Saturday that Richard Poplawski, 22, would be charged with three counts of homicide, aggravated assault and other charges. Poplawski, who was shot in the leg during a four-hour standoff with police, was hospitalized at an undisclosed location, police said.

Details of the incident were included in the police complaint seeking an arrest warrant for Poplawski. The complaint says Margaret Poplawski called 911 about 7 a.m. Saturday to report that her son was “giving her a hard time.”

She told police she awoke to discover that “the dog had urinated on the floor,” and awakened her son “to confront him about it.”

The two had an argument, and Margaret Poplawski told her son she was calling police to remove him from her home, according to the complaint. When officers Stephen Mayhle and Paul Sciullo III arrived, she opened the door and let them in.

“Mrs. Poplawski reported that as the officers entered approximately 10 feet into the residence, she heard gunshots, turned and saw her son about six feet away with a long rifle in his hands, at which point she fled downstairs after asking him, ‘What the hell have you done?'” the complaint said.

Margaret Poplawski reported she stayed in the basement during the standoff, and heard her son yell, “Yeah, I’ve been shot,” and “I’m standing down, come in and help me,” according to the complaint.

Police Chief Nathan Harper identified the dead officers as Eric Kelly, Mayhle and Sciullo. Kelly was a 14-year veteran of the department; the other two had worked there for two years each.

The chief said Sciullo was the first to approach the home, and was shot in the head as he entered the doorway. When Mayhle tried to help his fellow officer, he also was shot in the head. Kelly arrived at the scene and was shot before he could aid the other two officers, Harper said.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

The two had an argument, and Margaret Poplawski told her son she was calling police to remove him from her home, according to the complaint. When officers Stephen Mayhle and Paul Sciullo III arrived, she opened the door and let them in.

I’d sure like more details on that. Sounds like the cops made some sort of ”wellness” check.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

first story on 60 Minutes tonight: 60 Minutes: Bad Economy Leaves Cancer Patients Without Health Insurance In Dire Straits

This isn’t down to just the “bad economy”, it’s the result of a bunch of choices that put profit before decency.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Just listening now… and noted right off that several of the services, having to pick and choose, that UNLV shut related to women. Womens Cancer Care, Prenatal, Outpatient Mammography.


And remember Obster has insourced “reducing abortions” to his FUCKIGN RELIGIOUS West Wing outreach, instead of HHS (not that that is any better)

32. diane - 5 April 2009

59 Madman

Thanks for that…certainly doesn’t jibe with what seemed to me the prior, in between the lines, implication that he had preplanned for a specific time span of the shooting by pre-anouncing his death…wonder how it will end up panning out at the end of the day.

Haven’t totally defined my feelings yet that it didn’t even approach hitting the front page on my hardcopy despite seemingly endless days of frontpage Mixon as a BLACK PERSON coverage, which in retrospect both saught to explain it (though that would never be admitted) while condemning at as racial at the very same time.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Well Mixon was used to meld with Oscar Grant. It required many days of driving the news.

And to reinforce the growing “consensus” that Oakland is a ”failure”. It’s been clear to me for some time there is some hardening plan to employ post Katrina tactics, when and if the big East Bay Earthquake hits.. to clear the flatlands of Oakland and Richmond of the local zoological species.

Pretty close to what I hear, between the lines, for years now.

33. diane - 5 April 2009


And it terms of the lack of coverage, I found myelf wondering whether any of the police who died were black….I haven’t seen any mention of that.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

In oakland they were white. One claims to be Japanese (Sakai).. and has Japan derived middle and last names, but looked to be a blonde white to me. Perhaps Japanese paternal g-father.

In PA one was black, that I saw.

34. diane - 5 April 2009

63 Marisa

Oh yeah, I took Willie Brown’s The Police are a Paramilitary Organization, just like one might state that the sky is blue, and if all is right in the daytime…..should be,…….as the formal announcement.

Hope that fuckin ascott, gets trapped in the Cadi Suv Hummer fuckin door.and chokes newsum in the interim………………………now doubt willsters gangsta THUG pals in Oaktown will be the ones hired to adminster the JUST US

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Willie is such a classic case. My head was patted for years over him.. I like to say he’s been a thief as long as I have been alive, going back to when he was a def atty in Oakland. Representing all too often working women, shall we say. Oh people patted my head, But Marisa Prostitutes need legal defense too. Waaa.

They sure do, but he worked for the pimps. And Amtrak stops in the middle of nearly nowhere in TX, in Mineola.. so his aunties can get on (which is fine with me, but let’s get real)…. The list is long.

One day in a really wretched state I was taking a cab to a drs appt… it was cool overcast day the sort we have here… and i knew the City Hall was coming up… I was thinking about the beautiful dome and how bad as things are / were.. we have that… (silly thought i know) green verdigris dome. Gah. Well it had totally passed me by that we now had a ‘refurbished to a state it had never been in’, dark dome with gilt.

Took me days to figure out that Willie luvs to go to Paris and be loved (comped at the Crillon) .. going soon for his birthday, as it happens… and poor sick sod just replicated the dome of Invalides to suit himself.

The City Hall did need work after the earthquake but it did not need to lose it’s beautiful dome.

I really am sick of them all. All colors.

35. diane - 5 April 2009


“no doubt”, not “now doubt”

36. diane - 5 April 2009

67 Marisa

oh sshit…that’s the thing about the fucks….they are not satisfied contorting the economic landscape and the “law” to favor only themselves…they have to hideously let everyone know that their personal asthetics are going to be ruling the day also.

The most memorable piece I’ve read about Willie was some woman at society function praising WIllie because he was the only one able to immediately track down her car and have it returned to her after it was stolen…felt really bad for her that she didn’t realize that it was only because he likely knew who stole it.

37. NYCO - 5 April 2009

List of Binghamton victims and their countries of origin. Pakistan, Philippines, Haiti, China, Vietnam, Brazil and Iraq, with two American staff members.

38. marisacat - 5 April 2009

I think Tayyip Erdogan should lodge a complaint. Somewehre. MO went home to DC and cut out Turkey.

As SNL said last night, can’t someone get her to drive a Chrysler? And help Detroit?


Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

some of the comments are horribly depressing.

39. diane - 5 April 2009


Thanks NYCO….that got me to wondering if there is a list being compiled anywhere of what would seem now to be at least a few hundred innocent victims of droning. Seems at least a few times a week an average 13 humans are killed via droning and I got so used to reading that there were “collateral damage” caualties, that I just assume at least five out of every thirteen have likely not even comitted any petty crimes let alone that of being a “militant”….

I just can’t grasp what kind of koolaid folks are drinking that they fail to see that kind of chilling murder is going to be coming to a worn down neighborhood near us in the near future and frankly I don’t want to hear their astonishment and “moral” outrage when that day comes.

marisacat - 5 April 2009

Everybody under a drone is a militant. It’s just so simple.

However if reports are to be believed, even in part, the ramp up in violence in Pakistan is in relation to the drone strategy. ”BushObama” on a roll, as Angry Arab would say…

catnip - 5 April 2009

I noticed that irony this past week. The media all over the 14 dead in NY while the next day 13 died in a drone attack in Pakistan. No big deal there. Just another day.

40. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009
marisacat - 5 April 2009

What a shot… and what a horse.

catnip - 5 April 2009

That looks exactly like the Ford Mustang logo.

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 April 2009

Strong earthquake hits central Italy

ROME (Reuters) – An earthquake measuring 6.3 on the Richter scale rocked central Italy on Monday and was felt in the capital Rome, but there was no immediate word of casualties or damage.

42. marisacat - 5 April 2009

neue thread…


…. 😯 …..

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