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Forever 23 March 2011

Posted by marisacat in 2012 Re Election, DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iraq War, Pan Arab Revolt - 2011, WAR!.

Baghdad, Iraq: An Iraqi woman rests at the feet of riot police during a demonstration [Maya Alleruzzo/AP]


Foundling in war paradise:

President Obama defended his Nobel Peace Prize on Tuesday, saying that Americans “don’t see any contradiction” in him ordering an attack on Libya to make sure “people aren’t butchered because of a dictator who wants to cling to power.”

“When I received that award, I specifically said there was an irony because I was already dealing with two wars,” Obama said in an interview with CNN from El Salvador. “So I am accustomed to this contradiction of being both a commander-in-chief but also someone who aspires to peace.”

Saying he is focused on ensuring that Libyans can “live out their own aspirations,” Obama defended America’s involvement in Libya, saying, “we’re not invading a country, we’re not acting alone – we’re acting under a mandate issued by the United Nations Security Council in an unprecedented fashion and with unprecedented speed.”

And he said again that the U.S. military has already saved lives there. “I think the American people don’t see any contradiction in somebody who cares about peace also wanting to make sure that people aren’t butchered because of a dictator who wants to cling to power,” he said.

Some foreign leaders have called on Obama to return the Nobel Peace Prize he accepted in 2009 since ordering the Libya attack.

It came out at the time of the award (which is hardly some “peace” prize with Kissinger and others recipients) that two of the 5 awarding Norwegians were appalled at his speech and wanted to take the award back.

Repent at leisure!

While he was down in Salvador he went to a memorial or the grave of Romero (I forget which and it hardly matters)… and claimed Salvador is some paragon of democracy now.


I say:   Bring Back Bush!  BBB!!  It won’t matter.




1. marisacat - 23 March 2011

Apparently we DO have ground troops, taking off from Camp Lejeune, marines… MEU to join the fight.

Now marine jets / Harriers are involved but these are ground troops leaving in various numbers. 1000 went first and it sounds like, from garbled reports 2200 more leaving. FOr military and humanitarian purposes….

Mostly Republican aligned papers reporting, like the Examiner chain, of course. Ollie North, that old sabre in the teeth mess, screaming too.

UP UP AND AWAY!!… Obbie gets his own war.

diane - 23 March 2011

Foundling in war paradise:

now now, get it straight…it’s not war paradise, it’s Odyysey Dawn

virtual reality peace from the Obamessiah.

marisacat - 23 March 2011

The war that can’t decide if it is a cruise or a dish washing liquid.


diane - 23 March 2011

oopsie …sorry, …weared awh git skooled at ….Odious Dawn ….

2. diane - 23 March 2011

who is IOZ?

The sin is a sin against decorum, a failure of form. When you have mutilated a village, you must don a sober tie and American flag lapel pin and announce to the teevee that you deeply regret the loss of civilian life, or, better yet, deny that anyone was killed but the Lord of Hell and his demonic disciples themselves, although of course you will direct the committee to form a board to order an inquiry into the nature of the investigation of the allegations of the accusations. The crime is not killing an Afghan but posing tastelessly with the corpse. The soldiers are being court-martialed for wearing white shoes before Memorial Day.

As usual, the spokescreatures confirm as much. “‘The images have an enormous potential here in Afghanistan,’ one NATO general told SPIEGEL ONLINE.” The images. Ohmigod how will the Afghans react when they find out what we are doing to them?

marisacat - 23 March 2011

I think some higher up actually said, “we regret the photographs”.

No mention of anything else.

Like the people of the Middle East don’t know. They can only learn from show and tell, like children.


diane - 23 March 2011

yup, that spring wardrobe, can really hang you up the most …(waves, all good wishes, and hugs to ms xeno on the last “thread” …..)

ms_xeno - 23 March 2011

Likewise, I’m sure. 🙂

diane - 23 March 2011

thanks hon, may 4/4 pass with no ugly retraction.

3. catnip - 23 March 2011

Well, if “aspiring” is the criteria for getting a prize, where’s my gold Olympic medal??

marisacat - 23 March 2011


Where is my Good Housekeeping Award?

I vaguely aspired all my life.


catnip - 23 March 2011

Apparently the logic seems to be that if you make one hugely gigantic mess first and then promise to maybe sorta clean it up later kinda, you too can get that Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval!

marisacat - 23 March 2011


Mine was no doubt lost in the mail.

4. marisacat - 23 March 2011

Yum yum:

Regarding Arab public opinion and Western bombing of Libya

Why did the Western media not report that when Ban Ki-Moon attempted to enter Tahrir Square two days ago, he was chased out by angry young Egyptians who were chanting against Western bombing of Libya?

Posted by As’ad AbuKhalil at 8:19 AM

diane - 23 March 2011

‘snack’ time! ….thank goodness they’re so low calorie …..I wouldn’t be able to get out the door anymore.

catnip - 23 March 2011

CNN and FAUX are too busy scrapping with each other in Libya.

5. marisacat - 23 March 2011

i am probably desperado for a laugh, but this thread at IOZ hit an all time high.

diane - 23 March 2011

that was interesting ….wonder what the point was …what came to my mind was the plane crash ….

where’s boohoohooman to add his thought?

marisacat - 23 March 2011

Several stories on that plane crash. What a mess.

diane - 23 March 2011

Wellstone … the 2002 Congressional Elections …and pulseless cheney always pop up in my head on that subject….

diane - 23 March 2011

…oh and cheney ‘pheasant’ hunting in PA …Ligonier?…from a Limo window? … another best freind? …come to mind also.

diane - 23 March 2011

Ahh well ….back to pondering the rabbit hole I fell down yesterday, after reading this: seekingalpha.com article 259619-japan-s-multiple-disasters-slam-the-market-what-happens-to-reits-now (Seeking Alpha indeed …they could never withstand being LAST …despite their nasty BUCK UP mythologies), regarding: Residential Rental REITS …it’s a BUBBLE! and then, of course, ending up on the subject of. Tony Considine & AIMCO ….HUD crimes …ReThugs and DemoRats ….’hand in hand’

diane - 23 March 2011

sorry, that should’ve been Terry Considine, not “Tony”

6. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 March 2011

Don’t get pompous with me

October, 1996. Having recently been interviewed for Rolling Stone, an angry Hunter S. Thompson writes a heated letter to his good friend and long-time collaborator, illustrator Ralph Steadman, and threatens to sever their relationship. Steadman’s sturdy response, in which he essentially refuses to roll over, is golden.

7. mattes - 23 March 2011

Chun Chumps.

“Sri Lankan-born Rajaratnam is fighting for his liberty, with a multimillion dollar defense team arguing that his stock trades were based on research or public information. Prosecutors contend he made $45 million in illegal profit from insider tips, including leaks from a former Goldman director.

Blankfein told jurors that the former board member, Rajat Gupta, breached fiduciary duties to Goldman by leaking board secrets to Rajaratnam. [ID:nN23249396]

The Brooklyn, New York-born CEO made his approach to the defense team during a break in the proceedings.

With his hand in his suit pocket, he walked up to defense lawyer John Dowd and other attorneys who were chatting with Rajaratnam. Dowd, a tall, former captain in the U.S. Marines, firmly shook the hand of the diminutive Blankfein and put his arm around him. They exchanged some words and a laugh.”


mattes - 23 March 2011

Ok…can’t spell can’t see.

Wish there was a season 4 Damages. I want to forget the world for a while.

diane - 23 March 2011

;0( hugs honey! (from someone who surely makes more spelling fuckups than you)

marisacat - 23 March 2011

Thanks for mentioning Damages… I took a look at it and popped Season 1 onto my list…

8. marisacat - 23 March 2011

Geesh bad press all the way over in Australia

[B]ut the US is hosing down any ideas of putting troops on the ground and fending off suggestions it is already at war with Libya.

In a briefing that stuck carefully to the official script, US Rear Admiral Gerard Hueber would not explain what the coalition would do next if Mr Gaddafi’s forces could not be beaten from air.

“Can you achieve your mission of 1973 UN Security Council resolution without ground forces?” a reporter asked.

“It’s my primary focus today to discuss the current operations that we are in, and I would not project or discuss future military operations,” Rear Admiral Hueber said.

“The impression we get from you is it’s gotten worse since the allies started bombing. Is that accurate?” another reporter asked.

“Our mandate now is to enforce the no-fly zone and to allow humanitarian assistance to be available to the Libyan people,” Rear Admiral Hueber replied.

When asked whether or not the US was at war with Libya, US State Department spokesman Mark Toner also had trouble answering.

“We are, uh, implementing UN Security Council resolution 1973. It is clearly a combat operation – a combat mission,” he said.

“As the president made very clear, there will be no US ground forces involved in this.”

Whatever the mission ends up becoming, the US hopes to hand over responsibility for command of the mission as early as this weekend.


Sounds like only Sarko really wants this damned thing..

9. marisacat - 24 March 2011

I’ll say it again: BBB!! Bring Back Bush!

what would the difference be?

[“T]his is a limited humanitarian intervention, not war,” White House Middle East strategist Dennis Ross, National Security Council strategic planning official Derek Chollet, and two military officials told a group of outside foreign policy experts invited to a briefing at the White House Roosevelt Room Tuesday.

“We were looking at ‘Srebrenica on steroids’ —the real or imminent possibility that up to a 100,000 people could be massacred, and everyone would blame us for it,” Ross explained, according to one attendee, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the administration is trying to keep its consultations private (though the meeting was referenced in a tweet.)


Times are tough when someone like me would agree with a GOP staffer:

The administration also sent several officials involved in Libya policy-making—U.S. Ambassador to Libya Gene Cretz (currently working out of the State Department), the National Intelligence Officer for Near East and South Asia, the joint chiefs of staff intel/ops guy, Under Secretary of the Treasury David Cohen—to brief Hill staffers on Libya Tuesday in an unclassified format, Hill staffers said.

Not all of them found the briefing reassuring. “The strategy appears more like Somalia on Prozac,” one Senate GOP staffer said after the briefing.

Last but hardly least of the mess:

The White House did not respond to a query about how it had gotten the estimate that as many as 100,000 people could have been killed if Benghazi had fallen to Gadhafi’s forces.

BooHooHooMan - 24 March 2011

Oh Marisa, you have to understand the whole Democratic trip with Barry**, “The Spring Break President”.
Don’t ask, just pass the Jack, cuz ~ *Combined
AfPak and Iraq are,well, maybe only one blown tire, see, on this here roadtrip.
Think of Libya as ~the spare War~ a rinky dink donut of a war-tire, that Barry can, you know, pop on to get us thru so we can all be on our merry way.

** {The graphic is one of the DNC trinkets released for the Democratic National Convention, The Great Re-Unification thing 2008…}

BooHooHooMan - 24 March 2011

Woot… Woot!?? Yes? No?
I’m thinkin it’s No.

marisacat - 24 March 2011

Did you see the snip of Obby trying all the side doors at the WH trying to get in? I think on his fourth try, a set of double doors to the Oval, he got in.

It was hilarious. He did not look happy, either.

BooHooHooMan - 25 March 2011

LOL. I see. 😉

White House staff members were reportedly not informed before his arrival on Wednesday evening that the president was returning to work.

Shocked they were! Tho momentarily stunned {“Oh yeh, Barry, him, whatsisname- ” } I imagine the guys and dolls inside bareley glanced up from their floating crap game and boiler room operations.

Barry should have called the Salahis.
They could have gotten him in.

marisacat - 25 March 2011

Barry should have called the Salahis.
They could have gotten him in.

So true!!!!!!!!!!

10. marisacat - 24 March 2011
11. catnip - 24 March 2011

Earthquakes in Thailand

BANGKOK (Reuters) – Two large quakes with a magnitude of 7.0 struck near north Thailand’s border with Myanmar and Laos, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.

marisacat - 24 March 2011

where next, is all one can say.

12. catnip - 24 March 2011
13. catnip - 24 March 2011

Libya: Six injured as US team botches rescue of downed airmen

US forces sent into Libya to rescue two downed American airmen botched the mission by shooting and wounding friendly villagers who had come to help, witnesses have said.

Libyans who went to investigate the US warplane’s crash site said that a US helicopter had come in with guns firing, creating panic and wounding onlookers, some of whom had to be taken to hospital; one 20-year-old man is expected to have his leg amputated.

The villagers said they had been searching for the plane’s missing airmen to welcome them and help them.

Mission accomplished!

marisacat - 24 March 2011

One version I read said they arrived with food and drink for the pilots.

But you know, everybody is our enemy! We tolerate no friends.

Which is the bloody awful truth and has been for a long long time.

catnip - 24 March 2011

The Koch brothers are invading Alberta.

catnip - 24 March 2011

oops…wrong spot

ms_xeno - 24 March 2011

Speaking of all things Koch, or at least Faux-Koch:

Ian “Koch” Murphy For Congress!


…“Ian Murphy has been portrayed by the media as the nation’s most famous prank caller, but his call to Gov. Walker was done to point out how entwined the Democrats and Republicans are with the corporate elite,” said state party co-chair Peter LaVenia. Murphy is the editor of the Beast, a satirical website based in Buffalo…

marisacat - 24 March 2011

Poor little Reid has tightened up his man tits. He’s going to fundraising battle against them.

Have to laugh.

14. catnip - 24 March 2011
15. marisacat - 24 March 2011

Who shot Anthony Shadid in 2002 in Ramallah (II)

A well-known Western correspondent in the Middle East sent me this (he/she permitted me to cite without identifying him/her):

“It was the Israelis. Not surprisingly the wording is mealy-mouthed. I had a few drinks with Anthony and his wife in the bar of the American Colony the evening he was shot (it was not a serious wound). He said he clearly saw the shooter was an Israeli soldier, and if I recall correctly he was treated in an israeli field hospital. There never was any doubt who shot him.

And here is some more intelligence for you:

western reporters who covered today’s bombing in Jerusalem were attacked (kicked and punched) by Israelis at the scene. Unlike encounters by reporters in Tahrir Square attacked by Mubarak thugs, this has not been mentioned on air, has it?”

Posted by As’ad AbuKhalil at 5:31 PM

16. marisacat - 24 March 2011

Hellsbells…. I think we are under flood here.. between masses of hard rain for days and hours and hours of high surf, tons of snow, impassable roads to the Sierras.

At some points today the mountains that rise behind Santa Cruz got 4 inches an hour.

catnip - 24 March 2011

Are you safe?

marisacat - 24 March 2011

oh yes I am … I am on a rock outcropping, pretty safe in most conditions. The worst taht happens here is the drains at the street corners get clogged, but does not seem to be happening at all…

They do pretty rigorous street cleaning here, side to side, about twice per week… I imagine that takes care of most of the leaf and what-have-you that can clog the drains here…

I will be glad when the amount of down pour stops tho. Not that I was anxious to get there for the needle draw but it has allowed me to day after day put off going to the hospital…

Too cold too wet too stormy and windy… or all at once.

catnip - 24 March 2011

Good to know that you’re okay – even if you are temporarily stranded. 😦

marisacat - 24 March 2011

house is full of food and various and sundry…. mail box full of netflix.

I am set!!


diane - 24 March 2011

what a mess out there today…glad you’re cozy!

marisacat - 25 March 2011

Yes I hope you are too…. I contemplated ordering a pizza late this afternoon and decided I did not want to have to open the front door… Too damned fucking cold, tho it is warmer than it has been for weeks.

diane - 25 March 2011

thanks hon, I’m fine, had to a cancel a trip though.

mmmmm that pizza sounds good, hope you found a good substitute for it.

Madman in the Marketplace - 25 March 2011


17. diane - 25 March 2011

A rare, excellent article on the nuclear contamination (more than 204,000 cubic meters of highly radioactive waste remain on site — two-thirds of the total for the entire US.) at the old, 586 square mile Hanover, Washington nuclear plant, next to the Columbia River:

America’s Atomic Time Bomb – Hanford Nuclear Waste Still Poses Serious Risks
By Marc Pitzke in New York
Spiegel Online

The former plutonium plant in Hanford, Washington is one of the most contaminated places on earth, ….

marisacat - 25 March 2011

I read taht today too… and found it quite the eye opener.

BTW, I meant to post, and might be of interest to you and BooHooHM…. Aaron Datesman at Tiny Revolution has two new posts on TMI, much info on the area of Harrisburg PA.


diane - 25 March 2011

yeah it sure was an eye opener, and the absolute lack of recollect on it, from those in the know, is despicable. Thanks for the TMI info, gonna go read……

diane - 25 March 2011

from Aaron’s 03/24 post:

We would never allow this technology to exist if we really understood all of the complications which necessarily follow, but are never considered

my two cents is that in far too many professions, those considered too concerned about ethical (and, for that matter, legal) complications are weeded out from the Expert Class.

diane - 25 March 2011

Right on the perimeter of the old plant, is the still operating Columbia Generating Station run by Energy Northwest ….and guess what:

Plutonium fuel could be used at Hanford power plant
By Sandi Doughton
Seattle Times science reporter

….The nuclear-watchdog group Heart of America Northwest sued the plant’s operator this week, alleging that Energy Northwest improperly withheld information about the proposal requested under the federal Freedom of Information Act.

What it is:

Even uranium fuel contains some plutonium, which is produced during the fission process. Mox fuel, which is a mixture of uranium and plutonium, contains a higher proportion of plutonium — between 5 and 9 percent, Makhijani said. Plutonium has a half life of 250,000 years. Inhaling a few particles can cause lung cancer.

The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) is building a $4.8 billion plant to turn weapons-grade plutonium into fuel at the Department of Energy’s Savannah River site in South Carolina. But so far, few utilities have expressed interest in using it.

But they are EXPERTS:

Hanford’s nuclear experts are experienced in handling weapons-grade material, [just not good at EVER cleaning up the lethal contamination, as shown in the first article linked above – diane] Olson said. “It makes sense for us to study the technology to see if it’s feasible.”


But officials wanted to keep their studies quiet. “I assume this info will stay between PNNL and DOE NNSA,” said a December 2009 e-mail released last year to the environmental group Friends of the Earth under a public records request. “Just don’t want any unexpected press releases about burning MOX fuel in (Columbia Generating Station).”

(bolding mine)

marisacat - 25 March 2011

well why shouldn’t the site that extracted the Plutonium for Manhattan Project AND for Fat Man and Little Boy now use MOX/POX.

I mean it is jsut so karmic.

BTW, have you noted, I just caught it in the past couple of days in writings (forget which tho I know I linked it here) there are actually a total of 10, TEN, reactors at Fukushima. Not just the 4, nor the additioanl two they took a few days to tell us about, but another 4, quite close by.

We are all so skrood.

diane - 25 March 2011

I did see that somewhere and can’t remember where now …too much fucking bad nooooz ……………

yes we are screwed …

18. marisacat - 25 March 2011

oh btw, it is not a war. At least not a war war (you know, like “rape rape”).

it’s “kinetic military action”.

In case you were wondering, and that is from the WH itself.

19. ts - 25 March 2011

Well, on the lighter side of the news…


The Coffee Party, which launched last year to mild public curiosity in reaction to the Tea Party wave, has receded from public view — in part because of a schism between its centrist leadership and some left-leaning grassroots.

The movement, co-founded by filmmaker named Annabel Park, was initially seen as a progressive alternative to the Tea Party.

As Newsweek reported of an early meeting, members “were angry. They hated the Tea Party, and the Republican Party. They wanted to get even.”

Park, however, says she intended the group to be centrist and non-partisan. She at one point weighed legal action to prevent the left-leaning faction from using their copyrighted logo after Darrell Bouldin, a Tennessee-based activist, started an offshoot called “Coffee Party Progressives.”

Park wrote him last April, according to an email he forwarded POLITICO:

“I’m really unhappy with what I’m seeing on your fan page. We really need to talk about this. Why don’t you join other progressive organizations to achieve your goals. We are trying to take people beyond partisan politics to solutions which are not born with partisan labels.

ms_xeno - 25 March 2011


“More & Better Democrats™,” by any other name, would still smell like freshly-brewed shit.

20. catnip - 25 March 2011
diane - 25 March 2011

hmmm…ms nip …you’re not getting me to click that link and go into rapid mental boil again today about the state of insanity and language destruction … especially when I’m listen to music and drinken cheap red …


(or is it actually about ‘real’ humanitarians?)

21. catnip - 25 March 2011

Big day in CanuckLand today…the federal Con gov’t is falling – the first time in history it’s happened on a matter of contempt.

ts - 25 March 2011

Somewhat ironic that…

catnip - 25 March 2011

It’s been a LONG time coming.

22. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 March 2011

A WI Supreme Court justice, up for election in a week and a half:

Prosser Enabled Sexual Predator, Possibly Violated State Law Himself

He’s up against a relative unknown, Asst. AG Kloppenburg, but some left-leaning groups are running brutal ads against him and he and his campaign have made some pretty blatant statements to Republican groups (that of course leaked out) that he was a solid vote on the Court for the Governor’s agenda. The election could be a bellweather of how effective the movement to stop Walker will be in getting out votes.

marisacat - 25 March 2011


23. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 March 2011
24. mattes - 25 March 2011


G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether

General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.


Yet many companies say the current level is so high it hobbles them in competing with foreign rivals. Even as the government faces a mounting budget deficit, the talk in Washington is about lower rates. President Obama has said he is considering an overhaul of the corporate tax system, with an eye to lowering the top rate, ending some tax subsidies and loopholes and generating the same amount of revenue. He has designated G.E.’s chief executive, Jeffrey R. Immelt, as his liaison to the business community and as the chairman of the President’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, and it is expected to discuss corporate taxes.

“He understands what it takes for America to compete in the global economy,” Mr. Obama said of Mr. Immelt, on his appointment in January, after touring a G.E. factory in upstate New York that makes turbines and generators for sale around the world.


2nd…WTF. Does obama think immelt will bring the profits back to US if he cuts their tax rates??


marisacat - 25 March 2011

I don’t think Obama is interested in profits or jobs for the US national situation. Why would he be?

He’s their boy in the WH. And he has found he can golf and compose brackets and so on. Works for him!

Be interesting to see how many working class and lower paid professional white libs and black followers vote for him again. (If so, they deserve him, and I don’t usually go on about the sheeple)

‘Cuz you know, other wise it is Palin Bachman and Beck. (So relieved I have not cared for years)

Silly season in full swing. Watch out for the blood spatter.

25. mattes - 25 March 2011


“In a rational system, a corporation’s tax department would be there to make sure a company complied with the law,” said Len Burman, a former Treasury official who now is a scholar at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. “But in our system, there are corporations that view their tax departments as a profit center, and the effects on public policy can be negative.”

The shelters are so crucial to G.E.’s bottom line that when Congress threatened to let the most lucrative one expire in 2008, the company came out in full force. G.E. officials worked with dozens of financial companies to send letters to Congress and hired a bevy of outside lobbyists.

The head of its tax team, Mr. Samuels, met with Representative Charles B. Rangel, then chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, which would decide the fate of the tax break. As he sat with the committee’s staff members outside Mr. Rangel’s office, Mr. Samuels dropped to his knee and pretended to beg for the provision to be extended — a flourish made in jest, he said through a spokeswoman.

That day, Mr. Rangel reversed his opposition to the tax break, according to other Democrats on the committee.

The following month, Mr. Rangel and Mr. Immelt stood together at St. Nicholas Park in Harlem as G.E. announced that its foundation had awarded $30 million to New York City schools, including $11 million to benefit various schools in Mr. Rangel’s district. Joel I. Klein, then the schools chancellor, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who presided, said it was the largest gift ever to the city’s schools.

marisacat - 25 March 2011

Charlie is a door knob. There to be turned.

26. marisacat - 25 March 2011

hmm I just heard a bottom line tidbit, listening to a US dissident (I missed her name, but they may repeat the segment) on Russia Today, that NATO bombing raids in Serbia destroyed 14 tanks but bombed 437 schools.

In a nutshell.

So simple.

27. mattes - 25 March 2011


“Judaism, unlike some other religions, discourages conversions, but there has always been a certain amount of giddy excitement when a star, from Marilyn Monroe to Sammy Davis Jr., converts to the Jewish faith.

Few celebrity conversions, however, have garnered the lasting impact that the ceremony at Hollywood’s Temple Israel on March 27, 1959 did, at which a 27-year old Elizabeth Taylor took on the Hebrew name Elisheva Rachel and converted to Judaism. ”


marisacat - 25 March 2011

BIG supporter of Israel as well.

diane - 25 March 2011

thanks for that, hadn’t known that …now I understand some things better…. why perhaps, Ava (who I thought was far more ‘beautiful’…not that that makes anyone a decent person) got a far worse rep, than Liz in many corners …or am I wrong there? …never really ‘followed Hollowwood …not a movie buff, though I’ve really loved a handful of them.

28. marisacat - 25 March 2011



………….. 😯

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