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Skewered. 16 October 2011

Posted by marisacat in 2012 Re Election, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Viva La Revolucion!, WAR!.

Chinese police show off a new crowd control weapon, a giant fork, during a drill in Beijing

Looks dicey to me. I guess it is ”modern”, and not ”medieval”, in that it lacks additional prongs.




1. diane - 16 October 2011

With the exception of her $40K comment (far too simplistic, given the cost of living in so many cities, along with: the lack of knowing, and being able to exchange the filling of needs with, ones neighbors; (due to planned transience (layoffs etc. and the resulting foreclosures. evictions–being repeatedly forced to reside in areas where everyone is a ‘stranger’)); zoning regulations economic effects, such as the lack of ability to grow food/hunt for it; and the ability to build a cheap ‘primitive’ shelter), I thought this was a great post, from Chicago Dyke:

Just wondering, but how many of the OWS folk are brown and/or speak say, Spanish?

This is important, and will define the “movement.” I bet a lot of you are like me (and color isn’t important, in this sense) but if you are, you’re too broke to pitch a tent in Manhattan. Because if you leave your job, you’ll lose your house or apartment, and other stuff you need to live.

Ironically, I have too much work to do today (a Sunday, no less!) so this will be a short post. But seriously, how can the poor going to become part of this movement? Are any in the ‘leadership’ of it reaching out to the working poor? It appears that there is a degree of what some would call ‘global’ solidarity. Do the factory slaves in Asia who made the cell phone cameras that are making lots of white, globally speaking financial top “1%” (and if you don’t know, anyone making more than ~$40,000/yr is in the top 1%) activists youtube famous know that “someone is fighting for their rights?” If not, why not? Revolution that doesn’t include the peasants isn’t really “revolution.”

To be honest, I think that’s the key to succeeding, to find some way to finally hear the weary suggestions of; learn from and encompass; those not able to camp out, etc, who haven’t lived a day of their lives without fear of future homelessness. Most of all of whom, are far more aware of the general methodology of the rigged game, than the youth who started the Occupy movement.

NOT at all to disparage the Occupy movement, because people can’t be expected to totally understand something they haven’t experienced, and the fact they are luckier than others wasn’t something many had much, if any, choice in.

diane - 16 October 2011

In the comments to that post, okanogen, referenced this Bruce Dixon post :

When and how will the street corner “occupations” in progress around the country, mostly consisting of young and newly poor whites, connect with black, brown and poor communities who have been here all along.

The event, and Occupy Chicago too, are overwhelmingly white. For a city that's still a quarter black after losing some 200,000 African Americans in recent years, that's problematic. I didn't see any Latinos either. This was less true on Columbus Day, when transit and teachers unions and SEIU swelled their ranks for an afternoon. But the union leaderships in Chicago have been Democratic Party functionaries for a long time. Their clear objective is to take over, or at least take some credit in the eyes of their members and the public, for the protests.

I asked some south side activists about the nature of their disconnect with the people occupying Chicago's financial district.

“We'll see a lot more black people involved in this occupation stuff,” J.R. Fleming of the Chicago Anti-Eviction Movement told me, “when we start occupying these thousands of vacant bank-owned homes and apartments. You can take a day to protest downtown, and come back here and you’re still homeless or about to be homeless. When we occupy the goods in our hoods, that will be the occupation that means something to people out here. That will be the occupation that really makes a difference.”

diane - 16 October 2011

(sorry, I accidentally reversed the ‘html’ arrow to start a second/last quote, at: The event, and Occupy Chicago too, ..)

diane - 16 October 2011

I’m embarrassed to say I missed Bruce’s post (not having checked back at Black Agenda Report), after commenting my dismay that he may have been discouraged from further mentioning his email problems, which he mentions in the post:

The Occupy Everything Movement’s reliance on electronic and social media is problematic too. Late Sunday night I sat across the table from the friend I stayed with while in Chicago, both of us on our laptops. He asked if I received the two emails he’d sent earlier that day.

“Here’s one,” I told him. “I don’t see the other. Can you send it again?” He did. When it hadn’t showed up a full five minutes later, he sent it again a second time. I told him to copy my Gmail address too, and he did that, and sent a third time. Nothing. No message on my end, no error messages on his. I was able to send to him from that email account, though.

“I’m gonna try something….” he told me. A moment later, he asked if I’d received an email from him. “Yeah, here it is right here,” I said. He jumped up from the table laughing and went to pour himself a drink. The subject of the vanishing message was “Occupy Chicago” something or other. He had removed the word “occupy” and the message went through. I checked my Gmail account, and they were not landing there either. In the next half hour I had him send to my yahoo, hotmail, gmail, aim.com and godaddy webmail accounts from a variety of addresses, with the word “occupy” present, absent, and misspelled. Gmail rejected all messages with the correct and incorrect spellings of “occupy,” whether sent from hotmail, yahoo or AOL, while letting the control messages through. GoDaddy webmail let the control messages through and those in which “occupy” was spelled “ocuppy.” But with the word spelled correctly, those messages vanished too. I checked another GoDaddy webmail account, not mine, to which I had access. The “occupy” messages were showing up just fine there.

We both had a drink, and went to sleep.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

I am a LOT more interested in all the humps of color, from the political side/media/entertainment side, attempting to glom onto the OWS… including Slob who is now declaring himself on the side of the 99%.

diane - 16 October 2011

I’m interested in both: the fact that the darker skinned who are being quoted in the nooz (the only darker skinned who are being quoted), are “those who’ve made it;” and the fact that those who can’t afford to take place in the protests (more darker skinned than not), many who haven’t known any economically safe days, in their entire lives, need to be included, even highlighted for their lifelong experiences, in the dialogue somehow, in order for anything lasting to occur.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

I think it has to b given time to begin.

I love Chicago Dyke going on about “is the leadership reaching out…”. Makes me laugh. (corrente still takes forever to download if at all, so I just don’t go there anymore)

I caught Cindy Sheehan going the same route as so many, that it needs not to be ”directionless”. Geesh. She should think back.

The single most important hting so far (imo), is over and over I hear from the various OWS that the political process is not working. I can hang with that… certanly at less than the 5 week mark.

diane - 16 October 2011

I got the impression, due to her use of single quotaion marks on the word ‘leadership,’ that she was referring to the “General Assembly” meet ups. I mean it’s not like there is no leadership whatsoever, there is group leadership in the planning and debate, especially in the smaller Occupy groups.

While I’m really optimistic about what is happening with Occupy, all over the country now, I think hers is a valid question, one being asked by millions.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

has she gone to the nearest OWS to where she lives? (as I said, I won’t bother to try ot download corrente, for m it just doesn’t work anymore)

diane - 16 October 2011

I don’t know whether she went to one. I do know a lot of people would love to join ows but are so absolutely overwhelmed with responsibilities to people they care about, and not becoming permanently homeless, that they are horrified at having that picture/name in the press that will crush the job and all future job prospects (I’m betting, the majority of hard core occupiers are primarily youth who have parents who will take them in, a handful in the few jobs which will hire with a protest arrest record, and the retired and disabled who, currently receive safety net funds despite protest arrests), who can’t afford to be jailed and don’t have the money to pay legal fines , and they’ve felt that way their entire lives, not just since 2008.

Again, that is not at all to disparage anyone who has taken part, I hold them in the highest regard.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

Madman posted (or maybe he sent it to me and I posted it here, think that was it, however it was linked a few days back) about the OWS ATlanta, the fellow who challenged John Lewis when he tried to show up. Media wanted so badly to paint it as a white movement of people with financial support who dared to challenge the Great Hero. Dared to challenge a True Sufferer.

The truth was very very different. It was at Salon, Joan Walsh interviewed the OWSAtlanta person (I will hunt for the link). Who, you know, dared to challenge John Lewis…JL, who is seriously past it and one more sell out hump. Poor Joan, not sure she ever caught on.

marisacat - 16 October 2011
BooHooHooMan - 16 October 2011

Well, who does? With or without joining any damn thing.
AND THAT is where we ARE.
You can loose your job, healtch-care, pension and Home AND THEN go to jail when showing the slightest flicker of too-little,. too-late risistence..

But if one would like to contine a recital, you can, as an American Citizen simply be gunned down without trial by Executive Order.

And to spin the whole fear mongering fucker on its head –
Who Can AFFORD to Care anymore ?
About any Fuck Us Now or Fuck Us Later thing …

Obviously some do. And can afford for the time being – disconcerting crisis of consciousness shoved in their face quite aside – .to continue delude themselves that things are still honky now and they’ll somehow make it out of the Dluge in the ol dory later.

And not even a quarrel with them or CD personally. Who has been as much an occupier for what she believes in as any
It’s about amplifying that crisis of conscience now…It’s (IMO+ IMOO a given) like this inevitably: Is what you believe in really worth occupying? Beliefs about Freedom? Courage Justice?
Even….oh shit… your job? or…serious shit..your Home? if only for a time?

Long way to go. But it will not be debated away before praxis,
Especially when that gnawing, pain in the ass KArl is at the door:
What is to be Done?….
IOW~~~ You IN? ~~to paraphrase the Bearded One.

There has been no consensus on General Strike as , turning on the lights to grab serviceable disposable cell phone and hopping on transit will attest…..

Long way to go…but the very fact that people are IN crisis mode and confronted with personal dillemma ain’t a bad fork in the road given the Disinfo SuperHi-way to Smithereens we’ve been on for so long….

marisacat - 16 October 2011

You know, I followed the Oscar Grant mess very carefully. Who failed black people in Oakland? Over and over and over and over. Black so called leadership structures, from the churches, hell they only had 4 hanging off them NOT COUNTING that Farrakhan met with the family on a trip out from Chicago… to the East Bay NAACPs (originally, way back, a construct in any case, despite that it has done some good over the years).

I am pretty sure there are slices of blacks who would like to be rid of ALL of the old structures that have lectured to them. Hell, the Grant family went ot the most celebrated black atty in Oaklnd, for 40 years, for suing the cops and the City. And imo he sold them out (having so long ago become part of the status quo). He took a low ball figure for the child of OG, for one…

Maybe they need to walk away. Or may b too many are fixed on Three Gorges Dam Martin (as I call it) type of stuff.

as for “millions” asking. honestly I doubt that.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

even highlighted for their lifelong experiences

I think it has to remain broad
. The nation, as it has been for nearly its entire history, has gone totally deaf on personal stories of immense deprivaton – and goes deafer still on color defined stories…. And over and over, the split in the races is immense, not just black ~ white, but LatinoBrown ~ black…. and Asian (of any unifying force) ~ black.

That imo can kill the fledgling effort.

2. BooHooHooMan - 16 October 2011

{Index fingured hands circling each other in wheel motion}

Wrap it up, CD. Got it. Not a fuckin clue… ahYOU:
how many of the OWS folk …~Chicago Dyke

I know, COLD. AND awfully hypocritical from Mr. Windbag himself..

Welp, “the folk” is it? Seriously? No adopted voice?
No literary device?
Welp Welp, People come and go. That’s the thing with people.
Relate to some of them folk-people, ya find it’s true.
With jobs.. without……with part time jobs, jobs that suck,… and, (as at ANY busy intersection in the world) the voyeurs, seekers, and suckers alike. And who cares?
Has she BEEN at anything even semi-organically political in the last 50 years? With..”the folk”??

ANYWAYS. The beauty of it all?
Things being as they… are….. right now?
Ain’t no particular “Come and Follow Me” Gospel can rise above it.
Not now at least..

I saw signage in a pic, not personally

than HOPE….

IIRC @ CD…she has been very witch-hunty in her beat up of critical lower-deck passengers trying to get off the ole Barry Titanic…

diane - 16 October 2011

she has been very witch-hunty in her beat up of critical lower-deck passengers trying to get off the ole Barry Titanic

hadn’t seen that, never read her prior posts, which would’ve probably negated my even posting above, had I been aware of it.

despite that though I still think there is a very valid point about finding a way to enlist those who gave up a long time ago.

gonna take a comment rest …I’m worn out now …and starting to wonder that I won’t end up ensnared in something I’m not even connected with.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

She is, or has been over the years, a very frequent contributor at corrente….

diane - 16 October 2011

I only started checking out correntewire (via this site) about a year or so ago (if I remember correctly); and then, only if something caught my eye. I do remember her posting, with that eye catching red hat icon, early on when I first started reading there, and somewhat disappearing shortly thereafter, ……and I never ‘followed her’ before she pretty much stopped posting.

That aside, whatever her motivation was in the post I referenced, again, I still think there is a very valid point about finding a way to enlist far more of those who gave up a long time ago (and I don’t think that’s been pursued to it’s fullest potential yet NOT BLAMING ANYONE) and might love to join ows but with all seriousness, don’t believe they could survive it intact.

(like I mentioned in my last post, taking a break, I feel totally drained now, I’m not attacking OWS, just making what I really believe is a valid suggestion)

marisacat - 16 October 2011

Yes but diane .. there was a lot more in that thread. Had I not gone to it I would not have known.

I have no fucking clue what lambert has done to the coding or whateverbut my computer just dies in the struggle to open his site now. It is not enough to close the connection and redial … I have to take the computer dow, shut it off, and then re boot. So I won’t be going back to see what more is added to the thread.

diane - 16 October 2011

??? I never said there weren’t opposing comments, I pretty much assumed that anyone reading her post (which I quoted in its entirety), would know it would attract a ton of comments in disagreement, (just like my post on it has) like I immediately assumed before even reading the numerous comments. I never gave any indication whatsoever as to whether the commenters agreed with her or not, I don’t recall that as being anyone’s standard practice on the internet, especially when it’s pretty much a given that there will be many commenters who disagree (and for the record, it took me at least 20 minutes also, to access the post and read through all of the comments).

I‘ll stand by what I’ve stated about those too fearful to visibly join up, and those who gave up long ago. And I totally disagree with you that there aren’t millions (no lesser, or greater, persons than those who’ve very actively joined ows) who are asking whether their situations are being discussed, and encompassed. Now I’m going to turn my ‘puter off so I don’t feel, yet again, like I’ve been put on the defense stand for something I’m not guilty of. This has actually made me feel very sad, and miscontrued, so I’m taking that break.

marisacat - 16 October 2011

I‘ll stand by what I’ve stated about those too fearful to visibly join up

Frankly I don’t think people who have survived here for 400+ years are so fragile, nor, alternatively are those who make the migration to El Norte so fragile…… but, they have seen a lot come and go. I say, still, give it time. At least I intend to. And, far too many white pundits – and the Larry Eldreds of this earth, are just wailing away with the thousand tiny knives.

LOL I’ll let them be the naggers and bitchers. They get paid for it.

And I don’t think any movement or gathering of grievances REQUIRES the participation of any group or slice, because CD or Bruce Dixon say so. Nor do I think that any MASS grievance and suffering (which is what we have in the US) is inauthentic unless there’s 12% of this or 9% of that in view. YOu even defined for me what CD said as referring to the GA. Refuted in the comments, tho for NY… I think it is likely, highly possible, that where it matters that other groups may follow what seems to be happening at Zuccoti Park.

Here’s the thing diane, the comments did not just ”disagree” with CD, the comments offered concrete facts that disputed her assumptions…. and I suspect hers were assumptions…. From people who have been at OWS sites

Again, it seems, possibly she has not been to any occupation near her….

It’s a pity if you feel stressed diane. Or put upon or whatever else. I am sorry for that, but please take whatever time you need to feel better.

BooHooHooMan - 16 October 2011

IMO… confrontational tactics aside for the moment….this is about how people think.


Again, not meant to be facile…but Enlistment?
.the very premise….see…. I think it’s *as important TO be clear* on who is in and who is out…Not to preclude voluntary affil at any time, but there has been SO much anxiety and desperate manipulation to create & conflate numbers *and to ride them* in the past with every.fuckin. pseudo. Uniony. Leftsh. Rainnbowy. *Responsible Warry astroturf’d Busy-Biz-Bus bussed in kinda thing where the people on the bus go Yes We Can /Yes We Can/Yes We Can and the wheels on the bus go Round and round Round and round ALL through the TOWNS.


Til the people on the bus go CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH

Which leads me to believe that the dialogue needs to begin with the enlistment of a tire-iron if only to get the fuckin Jumpin Jacks habitually jacked-off-the-bus up from under the damn thing before we proceed.. 😉

With Love, truly. (I mean that)

3. marisacat - 16 October 2011

I got thru to Chicago Dyke’s post at corrente (took almost 20 minutes) and there is this from Ms Expat (and others too) in the chicago dyke post linked to above:

Primera Asamblea General de Nueva York

By MsExPat on Sun, 10/16/2011 – 11:01am

esta aqui .

I hear lots of Spanish being spoken in Zuccotti Park. About one in three New Yorkers, after all, speaks Spanish. Also, there are many Spaniards around, direct from the occupations in Madrid.

There’s a working group for translation. And, at least as of last week, there’s a Spanish language GA.

Call it a START.

AND there is this. I am sorry but the thread was a alot more than Lambert, Dixon and CD:

People of Color Working Group

By BDBlue on Sun, 10/16/2011 – 11:04am

According to this , there is a working group devoted to coming up with ways to diversify OWS, at least in New York.

“Do what you feel in your heart to be right — for you’ll be criticized anyway. You’ll be damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. ” – Eleanor Roosevelt

AND there is this, from a West Coast, Sacramento attendee:

Lota Issues There

By ChePasa on Sun, 10/16/2011 – 2:03pm

With the caveat that I can only speak for what I’ve seen and participated in, I’ll try to address some of the points you raise.

I have seen no lack of brown people at the Liberty Plaza Occupation via Livestream . Nor is there an absence of Spanish spoken, though personally I think there could be more.

The local Occupation I’m involved in and support in Sacramento is not at all as white and privileged as some seem to be, but everyone I know who is seriously interested in seeing the movement grow is very conscious of the need for outreach to those who aren’t necessarily as WiFied and mobile, nor as young, as many of the most dedicated activists are. (White Male Dominance is not an issue — at least not yet — at the local Occupation; “arrogant, self-important little twits” are!)

Well it was mostly blacks on the FUCkING Mall today. Including Shaprton and John Lewis. And that hump Salazar… I guess for fake Latino flavor.

Painting by numbers is not going to do it.

Let it GROW on its own.


4. BooHooHooMan - 16 October 2011


including Slob who is now declaring himself on the side of the 99%, – mcat

39% of whom are ON HIS SIDE!
Don’t forget the 38.61%! 😆 😉

Love you all, hittin the hay…

marisacat - 16 October 2011

geesh the days of 38.61 support may soon be the good ol’ days. Myself I think protestors should wear bedroom slippers to his events.

5. marisacat - 17 October 2011



…… 8)

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